| 00:01.31 | eightyeight | Tene: indeed |
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| 01:38.01 | TimRiker | pashdown, I would think the logical next step for xmission with ipv6 would be to add a local (to xmission) 6to4 router on the normal anycast IP of 192.88.99.1 |
| 01:38.36 | TimRiker | pashdown, that's the issue I'm having right now on two different dsl accounts. Routing through the default anycast address is broken. |
| 01:39.23 | TimRiker | pashdown, I hard coded both machines to use cisco's test 6to4 router ipv6-lab-gw.cisco.com (128.107.240.254) and 6to4 works great. |
| 01:40.50 | TimRiker | xmission already has ipv6 connectivity in places, just setup a 6to4 router and re-route anycast there. latency goes down, speeds go up, and _most_ importantly, 6to4 issues can now be debugged effectively right inside xmission networks. |
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| 06:54.51 | shalkie | eightyeight, nice. Re: ntp traffic. |
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| 06:59.10 | bbeattie | if anyone is looking for a decent 24 port managed gigabit switch for their home... http://tinyurl.com/263w66t $194 after rebate. Only thing missing is POE and netgear launched rebates for their higher end models $up to $400 rebate on $1200 models |
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| 17:15.36 | cedwards | I have two VMs, each with two interfaces on two vlans (CentOS 5). I'm having issue trying to configure the routing so vlan0 goes through gateway0 on eth0 and vlan1 goes through gateway1 on eth1. |
| 17:16.14 | cedwards | it's been so long since I've needed to do any custom routing that I'm causing more trouble than I'm solving. |
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| 19:17.54 | elg | decisions decisions. to refactor a 1300-line python program that is broken and has a poor design, or to rewrite it from scratch. |
| 19:18.09 | goozbach | elg: don't rewrite |
| 19:18.12 | goozbach | fix it |
| 19:18.15 | goozbach | incrementally |
| 19:18.24 | goozbach | and add unit tests along the way |
| 19:18.35 | goozbach | which you push up to a smoke server somewhere |
| 19:18.41 | elg | i already fixed it incrementally. we got what we can get out of incremental fixes. the rest of the bugs are architectural |
| 19:19.16 | goozbach | architech fix incrementally |
| 19:19.42 | goozbach | a subroutine here, a delete there |
| 19:20.05 | goozbach | or make sure the unit tests are up to par and completely re-write |
| 19:20.09 | elg | no, architecturally. as in, the whole parallel processing flow of things |
| 19:21.46 | elg | i think i'll sketch out the replacement, then read through the old code and extract whatever pieces can find a new home in the new code, then fill in the gaps. |
| 19:21.55 | elg | tests and all that jazz goes without saying |
| 19:23.10 | unum | unit tests, that's an interesting idea.... |
| 19:23.22 | unum | takes off his cowboy hat |
| 19:23.36 | jsmith | elg: "If it's worth writing, it's worth re-writing." |
| 19:23.59 | elg | there we go, that's the sort of validation I'm lookin' for |
| 19:24.53 | elg | seriously though, they do say write one to throw away. the guy who wrote it was smart no doubt, but by putting it in large-scale production we learned where it was lacking |
| 19:25.46 | unum | I often end up writing once to throw away |
| 19:26.02 | unum | the more complicated the project the more likely that is |
| 19:26.11 | unum | the less you want to do it, but the more you need to do it |
| 19:26.22 | unum | of course I never get a spec before I build out a project |
| 19:26.33 | unum | so that tends to make it neccisary as well |
| 19:27.57 | jsmith | elg: And the funny part is... as you write version two, you'll find parts of version one that make a lot more sense than they did before you started version two. |
| 19:33.17 | goozbach | but the thing is, you're gonna end up writting version three |
| 19:33.38 | goozbach | but before you do you should have 100% unit test covereage from writing version two |
| 19:33.52 | goozbach | which makes writing version three very nice indeed |
| 19:33.58 | goozbach | and version three is the one you ship |
| 19:33.59 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:34.53 | fugue88 | After shipping version 3, you realize that your customers don't like it, and all your assumptions were wrong anyway. |
| 19:35.04 | elg | :) |
| 19:35.08 | elg | at least I am my own customer here. |
| 19:35.17 | elg | so i know exactly what we want. |
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| 20:20.30 | sjansen | elg: Rewrite it in Haskell. |
| 20:20.49 | elg | I'm going to rewrite it in sjansenware. |
| 20:20.59 | sjansen | That way, when you finally agree to another rewrite in Clojure you'll be a hero. |
| 20:21.09 | elg | :-D |
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| 20:43.20 | Jayce^ | taco bell it :) |
| 20:46.12 | sontek | I think instead of re-writing you can just build new parts properly and re-write the portions that need it when you run into it |
| 20:46.25 | Jayce^ | referring to: http://teddziuba.com/2010/10/taco-bell-programming.html |
| 20:46.32 | sontek | no reason to erase years of work just because it looks dirty, if it works keep it in production |
| 20:47.28 | sontek | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html |
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| 20:54.38 | unum | when I refactored a piece of code I found I really wish I had commented my bug fixes |
| 20:57.32 | unum | I'm suprised how many developers reject "on time and under budget" as a top priority |
| 20:57.46 | unum | that was a favorite quote of a professor of mine. |
| 20:58.29 | unum | stop optimizing!!! we're not google OR facebook!!!!! |
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| 20:59.37 | sontek | Yeah, I have co-workers who spend days/weeks optimizing/trying to make it scale to more than it needs to before it needs to |
| 21:00.02 | sontek | I write my code the best I feel it should be with performance in mind, but I don't go tweaking it until we notice its slow |
| 21:00.38 | sontek | If twitter would've tried to scale to the size they need now before they launched they never would've launched/got popular :P |
| 21:04.03 | unum | I never optimize for speed if it's going to take extra time, I tweak aftwards if it's too slow |
| 21:04.13 | unum | that's happened twice in the five years I've been programming |
| 21:04.15 | sontek | but the app I work on only gets like 30,000 hits a day, so it doesn't really need major scaling |
| 21:05.00 | sontek | There have been a few times where we've done something not realizing it generated like 20-30 queries on a single page, thats when we go back and fix things :P |
| 21:06.18 | unum | I had someone ask me how I optimized my php code |
| 21:06.39 | unum | I asked him where his bottle neck is, he said he didn't have one, but one day he hoped millions of people would be using his code..... |
| 21:06.52 | unum | and he wanted to make sure there wouldn't be a bottle neck |
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| 21:09.10 | unum | Joel has some good points, I've never worked with a large commercial code base though :) but even for my small projects I'd have to agree |
| 21:09.27 | unum | I guess I've never started from scratch, just done major refactoring |
| 21:29.53 | sontek | We re-wrote our product from scratch and for the next year we had people saying "well in the old version it did this..." and then have to put that in there :P |
| 21:30.07 | sontek | people don't like change |
| 21:40.44 | unum | tell me about it.... |
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| 22:35.55 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | Plug meeting tonight. |
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