| 00:01.37 | eightyeight | i think that last lart was unwarranted |
| 00:04.14 | sjansen | eightyeight: I think your face is unwarranted. |
| 00:04.51 | eightyeight | says the one with the beard |
| 00:05.25 | sjansen | By what logic should users be expected to remember that Cabbage Patch is current stable and Garbage Pale was the release before that? |
| 00:05.50 | eightyeight | no one remembers those things |
| 00:05.59 | shalkie | sjansen: I think you have that backwards, it was Cabbage patch then Garbage Pale. |
| 00:06.00 | eightyeight | people remember "stable", "testing" and "unstable" |
| 00:06.16 | sjansen | Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeee. |
| 00:06.44 | eightyeight | you must be ill. you're thinking of ubuntu |
| 00:07.27 | sjansen | I've repeated the following pattern enough to know that people use Debian's Pointless Names more than they should: |
| 00:07.35 | sjansen | (1) Try to do something in RHEL. |
| 00:07.49 | sjansen | (2) Discover it's a pain in the butt because the required software isn't packaged. |
| 00:07.59 | sjansen | (3) Wonder if using Debian might be a better idea. |
| 00:08.43 | sjansen | (4) Find mention of a package and a Stupid Name then proceed to evaluate how the Stupid Name maps to the current Stupid Name. |
| 00:08.48 | eightyeight | the names are easy to google. that's about the extent |
| 00:09.05 | eightyeight | oh, you mean in the package names |
| 00:09.25 | sjansen | I'm already many steps into getting pissed off, throwing around toy names like they mean something just makes the situation worse. |
| 00:09.54 | sjansen | No I mean in the package name, in mailing lists, in blog posts. |
| 00:11.10 | unum | why not just look up the list of what's in current stable? |
| 00:12.06 | sjansen | At least Ubuntu alphabetizes all but their oldest names, making it slightly less annoying when trying to determine if Snotty Snail or Unclean Urinal is most recent. |
| 00:12.22 | eightyeight | unum: don't ask sjansen to do any work. it doesn't do any good |
| 00:12.54 | sjansen | unum: That's actually what set me off. After deciding that google was taking too long, I went to debian.org. |
| 00:13.04 | sjansen | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libntfs-dev |
| 00:13.06 | sjansen | You |
| 00:13.46 | sjansen | Eventually I noticed the "stable" in the breadcrumb, but you'll notice that the most prominence is given to the names. |
| 00:14.17 | sjansen | The URL. The top right corner begging to be clicked. |
| 00:14.19 | unum | true |
| 00:14.32 | sjansen | Debian culture is just as broken Ubuntu culture in this regard. |
| 00:14.46 | eightyeight | heh |
| 00:15.30 | eightyeight | i find it hilarious that the naming scheme of an operating system that you don't run pisses you off. ;) |
| 00:15.55 | sjansen | No, I was already pissed off by how stinking hard it is to build partclone. |
| 00:16.47 | sjansen | But the naming scheme is a repeated pain point. It's obviously inferior, so obviously broken, and much more likely to get a comment from apologists like you. |
| 00:17.05 | eightyeight | heh |
| 00:17.09 | eightyeight | i couldn't care less |
| 00:17.18 | sjansen | <eightyeight> i think that last lart was unwarranted |
| 00:17.19 | eightyeight | again: "stable", "testing" and "unstable" |
| 00:17.20 | sjansen | Really? |
| 00:17.27 | sjansen | You couldn't care? |
| 00:17.34 | sjansen | You couldn't care so much you had to comment? |
| 00:17.40 | sjansen | Please. |
| 00:17.45 | eightyeight | i'll refrain from joking when you're present |
| 00:17.55 | Heartsbane | SHUT UP! |
| 00:17.59 | sjansen | throws a chair at eightyeight |
| 00:18.07 | sjansen | staples Heartsbane's lips together |
| 00:18.20 | Heartsbane | Damn trolls |
| 00:18.34 | Heartsbane | Why can't we just sit here and not talk |
| 00:19.03 | Gate | Heartsbane: the silence was *so* deafening. Isn't it much more fun to watch sjansen's head explode? |
| 00:20.06 | sjansen | ponders the logistics of sponsoring a prize for the first person to write a worm that erases all evidence that autotools ever existed |
| 00:20.38 | Gate | Perhaps I should add to the fire by saying somthing inflammatory that regurgitates the most "extreme source" I have ever heard. |
| 00:22.27 | *** join/#utah fadein (~Erik@c-71-199-16-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.22 | eightyeight | sweet. fonud an android app that shows how much miliamps is being pulled |
| 00:25.40 | eightyeight | ~50 mA via USB and ~500 mA via a power outlet |
| 00:26.01 | eightyeight | (re: my question earlier about the amperage of usb ports) |
| 00:26.53 | Gate | did we make sjansen run away? |
| 00:27.07 | eightyeight | did he leave? |
| 00:27.18 | eightyeight | i guess he did |
| 00:27.19 | eightyeight | meh |
| 00:27.20 | Gate | yep |
| 00:28.58 | Gate | I just realized that the joke I made a minute ago should have been aimed at unum instead of sjansen. |
| 00:30.37 | eightyeight | heh |
| 00:31.06 | eightyeight | microsd cards are what, .5 grams? and a 32gb card will cost you about $200 |
| 00:31.28 | eightyeight | that's about 11x times more expensive than the weight of gold |
| 00:36.46 | Gate | too bad it depreciates like a mofo |
| 00:37.10 | shalkie | Sjansen just left and turns out his battery was dead. Seems to be one of those days for him. |
| 00:37.15 | Gate | 50% in 18 months or so |
| 00:37.39 | eightyeight | shalkie: heh |
| 00:38.03 | eightyeight | Gate: yeah. still, it's almost hilarious what people will pay for |
| 00:38.05 | Tene | eightyeight: 'stable', 'unstable', and 'testing' aren't so good to use, because then you need to look at the date of the publication and compare that to previous release dates to work out which they were talking about. |
| 00:39.22 | eightyeight | sure |
| 00:39.45 | eightyeight | the codenames are just pointers |
| 00:39.58 | eightyeight | the official release is the version number and point releases |
| 00:43.19 | Tene | eightyeight: so why say "sarge" instead of "3.1"? |
| 00:43.28 | eightyeight | right from the main page: "The latest stable release of Debian is 5.0. The last update to this release is 5.0.7 and was made on November 27th, 2010. Read more about available versions of Debian." |
| 00:43.45 | eightyeight | the same reason fedora uses "leonidas" and "werewolf" |
| 00:44.12 | eightyeight | for package names, however, i don't know. maybe too many numbers are difficult to read? i don't know |
| 00:45.11 | Tene | eightyeight: I don't see people actually using those names. I don't even know which is what withotu looking it up. I've only ever seen people us "F13", "F14", etc. |
| 00:45.20 | Tene | Maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong people, though. |
| 00:46.44 | eightyeight | yeah. the culture is different, as sjansen pointed out. but the project uses the release numbers as the standard |
| 00:48.18 | Tene | Sure, but the code names are pretty prominent, and significantly used by users. There's also usages like on the packages page as sjansen said, and others: http://debian.org/releases/stable/ |
| 00:49.17 | eightyeight | i don't see the problem |
| 00:49.24 | Tene | afaict, he had a pretty valid point, and I can't really figure out why you were arguing with him about it. |
| 00:49.53 | eightyeight | lenny is in quotes, right on the page you pointed, and it starts out with "Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.7 was released November 27th, 2010" |
| 00:49.59 | Tene | Sure. |
| 00:50.15 | Tene | It's still fairly prominent. |
| 00:50.36 | eightyeight | so? i guess i'm not seeing the problem here |
| 00:52.37 | Tene | 'k |
| 01:25.27 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-76-27-43-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:03.13 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@166-70-57-177.ip.xmission.com) |
| 02:08.56 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@53.250.sfcn.org) |
| 02:36.22 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@75-150-209-166-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:36.22 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 02:44.52 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@75-150-209-166-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:44.52 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 03:15.53 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@75-150-209-166-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:15.53 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 03:44.02 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@75-150-209-166-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:44.02 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 03:44.41 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@c-76-27-51-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:48.52 | goozbach | what gets me is saying "I'm running debian 5.0.7" and having people say "which version is that? Sarge, lenny, squeaky, bopeep?" |
| 03:49.33 | goozbach | whereas I can say "I'm running fedora" -- "which version" -- "13" |
| 03:49.42 | goozbach | seems to be a cultural thing |
| 03:54.04 | goozbach | a sure-fire way to see the difference: ask "which is the latest debian release?" |
| 03:54.18 | goozbach | the answer you get is most likley a codename |
| 03:54.34 | goozbach | ask: "which is the latest fedora release?" |
| 03:54.42 | goozbach | and you'll get a number most often |
| 03:55.16 | goozbach | and don't get me started on debootstrap (a cool tool) but you have to use the code-names |
| 03:55.23 | goozbach | I want debootstrap 5.0 |
| 03:56.10 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.53.57.58) |
| 04:03.52 | sontek | How about Ubuntu... its mixed 10.04 vs Badger... I can never remember either :P |
| 04:04.23 | sontek | I like the incremental versioning with Fedora |
| 04:05.22 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@75-150-209-166-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:05.22 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 04:19.27 | Heartsbane | googles for the bopeep version of debian. |
| 04:25.23 | goozbach | Heartsbane: that's a sign that names aren't a good idea |
| 04:25.27 | goozbach | you had to google |
| 04:25.50 | goozbach | if I had said fedora 35 you might raise an eyebrow |
| 04:30.19 | Heartsbane | Wow Fedora is up to 35! |
| 04:30.51 | Heartsbane | They didn't even mention it on Fedora Planet |
| 04:52.12 | eightyeight | heh. is it really that important? seriously? |
| 04:53.35 | eightyeight | what does fedora 13 tell you that fedora wildcat doesn't? |
| 04:55.31 | eightyeight | it doesn't inform you on whether or not it's the latest release |
| 04:56.01 | eightyeight | it doesn't tell you anything about package versions |
| 04:56.52 | eightyeight | it only tells you that it's the 13 th release in the series |
| 05:08.58 | Heartsbane | Damn eightyeight enhance your calm |
| 06:18.23 | eightyeight | ok |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah tvc123 (~tcameron@host-148.pl1071220.fiber.net) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah nage (~george@97.75.169.100) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah mindjuju (~mindjuju@c-174-52-140-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah goozbach (~goozbach@kessel.friocorte.com) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah eightyeight (~88@oalug/member/pdpc.supporter.monthlybronze.eightyeight) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah Migs (~Migs@205.122.50.75) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah KevinRandolph (~krandolph@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah jnbek (~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek) |
| 08:47.40 | *** join/#utah RyanE (Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 08:47.40 | *** mode/#utah [+v goozbach] by niven.freenode.net |
| 08:47.53 | *** join/#utah bmidgley (~brad@c-76-27-89-77.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:47.53 | *** join/#utah mecworks (~marc@nat/novell/x-mugyiowjjqpjsvel) |
| 08:47.53 | *** join/#utah carmony (~justin@c-24-10-194-172.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:47.53 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@fedora/jsmith) |
| 08:48.10 | *** join/#utah levi (~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:48.10 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 08:48.10 | *** join/#utah pashdown (pashdown@sine.xmission.com) |
| 08:48.10 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_ (~tristanbo@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 08:48.10 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (tsharpe@unaffiliated/heartsbane) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah tierra (~tierra@ibaku.net) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah JessieAMorris (~jessie@mail.caandb.com) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah utahcon (~utahcon@li51-147.members.linode.com) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah eco (~eco@gnuk.net) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah peno (~irc4me@peno.com) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#utah rsimpkins (~rsimpkins@unaffiliated/rsimpkins) |
| 09:32.29 | *** join/#utah RyanE (Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:17.59 | *** join/#utah redbeard_work (~jphall@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 13:21.46 | *** join/#utah jpwhiting (~bip@kde/developer/whiting) |
| 14:17.14 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@adsl-76-199-9-107.dsl.chmpil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:17.14 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 14:20.43 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-76-27-43-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:40.28 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 14:44.25 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-76-27-43-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:21.10 | *** join/#utah larrys (~larrys@c-76-27-113-134.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:44.21 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@66.60.115.30) |
| 15:48.27 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.133.27) |
| 16:01.15 | *** join/#utah fadein (~Erik@c-71-199-16-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:20.59 | *** join/#utah WonTu (~WonTu@p57B56C49.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:21.13 | *** part/#utah WonTu (~WonTu@p57B56C49.dip.t-dialin.net) |