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| 02:03.28 | Reilithion | Hey, how well is NTFS supported under Linux? |
| 02:03.39 | Reilithion | And is exFAT any better/worse? |
| 02:18.47 | mheath__ | Reilithion, FAT is fully complete (supporting that filesystem is pretty trivial).... |
| 02:19.18 | mheath__ | NTFS works fine for myself and everyone else I have ever talked to. Most of the NTFS implementations still carry warnings about how they are beta and will harm kittens in their sleep, but I'm not sure why. |
| 02:19.51 | mheath__ | That being said, if you were looking to use NTFS is some mission critical production environment, you might want to pay closer attention to those warnings :) |
| 02:39.25 | Reilithion | Cool, thanks. |
| 02:39.29 | ^Phantom^ | hi |
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| 03:22.11 | eightyeight | Reilithion: ntfs generally isn't well suited for most installations |
| 03:22.22 | eightyeight | Reilithion: it's amazing to me that microsoft has held on to it this long |
| 03:22.54 | eightyeight | if you don't mind massive file fragmentation, and eventually slowing of reads/writes as a result, then have at it |
| 03:23.25 | eightyeight | Reilithion: curious, what are you trying to accomplish? |
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| 03:24.07 | Reilithion | eightyeight: Really I was just looking for something that could be formatted from Windows and used to store a single, large file temporarily. |
| 03:24.33 | Reilithion | I had heard something about NTFS having problems with write under Linux, but perhaps that information is very outdated. |
| 03:24.33 | eightyeight | ah |
| 03:24.40 | eightyeight | very much so |
| 03:24.53 | eightyeight | the ntfs-3g driver is rather stable |
| 03:26.02 | ^Phantom^ | ntfs is ugh |
| 03:26.19 | ^Phantom^ | But it is part of what sets Windows apart from the rest |
| 03:26.29 | ^Phantom^ | Micro$haft likes slowness |
| 03:26.40 | ^Phantom^ | extfs ftw |
| 03:27.03 | eightyeight | Micro$haft? |
| 03:30.03 | ^Phantom^ | microsoft perhaps? |
| 03:31.28 | Reilithion | 'cause they give you the shaft/ |
| 03:31.35 | Reilithion | and all they care about is money? |
| 03:31.48 | ^Phantom^ | yep |
| 03:31.55 | eightyeight | ah, linux fanboy-isms. got it. |
| 03:32.01 | ^Phantom^ | heh |
| 03:32.03 | ^Phantom^ | XD |
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| 03:32.18 | ^Phantom^ | at least you don't pay $150 for the linux os just to have it crash |
| 03:32.38 | eightyeight | gnu/linux has definetly crashed on me |
| 03:32.51 | eightyeight | i would be lying if i said it hasn't |
| 03:33.08 | ^Phantom^ | heh |
| 03:33.11 | eightyeight | seems the biggest issues are coming out of standby |
| 03:33.13 | Reilithion | It's crashed for me, but usually I was doing something stupid, or testing a newer video driver build. |
| 03:33.38 | Reilithion | ... or using Gentoo. Man that distro was kinda awful to work with. |
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| 03:53.45 | ^Phantom^ | http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/ |
| 03:53.49 | ^Phantom^ | I signed it, join me |
| 04:05.59 | Reilithion | Thanks for that, ^Phantom^. I would have missed it otherwise. |
| 04:06.29 | ^Phantom^ | yw |
| 04:06.36 | ^Phantom^ | :) |
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| 04:55.46 | Reilithion | ~convert 8518 seconds to hours |
| 04:57.37 | mheath__ | 'approximately'. |
| 04:58.13 | Reilithion | So, I was asked by a friend to save some files he accidentally rm'd. |
| 04:59.04 | Reilithion | Naturally I wanted to get a dd disk image to work with, but my friend didn't have any media large enough for a complete image. |
| 05:01.20 | Reilithion | So I am now downloading his entire hard drive image over the Internet onto my system. |
| 05:01.33 | Reilithion | I expect to be done in about 2 days. |
| 05:02.45 | Reilithion | Is there a way I can help ensure the data I'm trying to recover isn't overwritten in that time? |
| 05:03.05 | mheath__ | What filesystem is it formated as? |
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| 05:03.43 | Reilithion | mheath__: ext4 |
| 05:03.44 | mheath__ | If it's a secondary hard drive, I would suggest doing a umount. But with some filesystem's sync process this might do more harm than good.I don't know. |
| 05:05.09 | Reilithion | Anything I can do to ask the kernel to be lazy about flushing to disk? Any processes I can terminate that write new files a lot? |
| 05:05.37 | mheath__ | is this his / partition? |
| 05:05.43 | Reilithion | mheath__: Yes. |
| 05:05.51 | mheath__ | can you get him a live CD? |
| 05:06.04 | Reilithion | I think he has one. |
| 05:06.09 | mheath__ | My hunch is the continued use of the hard drive is going to be your biggest concern |
| 05:06.17 | mheath__ | More so than sync or anything |
| 05:06.33 | mheath__ | I would get it umounted as soon as possible, and use the LiveCD to do the dd |
| 05:07.33 | Reilithion | I wish I'd thought of that earlier. My friend has gone home for the night. We won't have physical access again until tomorrow, by which time (if there are no network interruptions) I will probably have already downloaded the section of partition image that contains the deleted files. |
| 05:08.16 | Reilithion | I suppose I could shut it down remotely. |
| 05:10.33 | mheath__ | Hopefully, someone else will chime in and give their 2 cents |
| 05:10.42 | mheath__ | I'm hesistant to give you firm advice that that is the best course of action |
| 05:10.51 | ^Phantom^ | puts 2 pennies in mheath__'s hat |
| 05:10.54 | mheath__ | It makes sense to me though, but I've never really had to worry about disk recovery |
| 05:11.47 | Reilithion | mheath: Fortunately, it sounds like this lost data may not be critical, and potentially could be regenerated or rewritten. But I'm still going to try to save it if I can. |
| 05:13.05 | Reilithion | It's good practice for when I have to save something that /is/ critical. |
| 05:13.44 | Reilithion | Think maybe I should shut apache2 down? |
| 05:15.00 | mheath | depends on the traffic level, I'm sure |
| 05:15.26 | mheath | If you ever have something critical, its better to have proper backups, and a proper privlege system that would prevent someone at all likely to delete the important content from having the ability to do so |
| 05:17.03 | Reilithion | Zach actually wasn't likely to delete anything he didn't intend to. I'm rather shocked, really. |
| 05:19.37 | Reilithion | I need to teach him about revision control systems. |
| 05:20.00 | Reilithion | Probably he could have saved himself some trouble if he were using git, mercurial, or bazaar. |
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| 07:44.09 | Gate | Heartsbane: w007! office is getting xmission! |
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| 17:11.43 | vontrapp | if the data was absolutely critical, i might consider yanking to power to prevent even sync from happenning, then boot a live cd. depending on how important the data actually is, that may or may not be extreme |
| 17:11.53 | vontrapp | yanking *the power |
| 17:12.21 | vontrapp | oh yeah, and don't mount when you boot the livecd, only dd the block device |
| 17:17.27 | Migs | were absolutely critical |
| 17:17.59 | vontrapp | grumbles, *nazi* |
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| 17:33.33 | maquis | hrm... how hard is it to break a window? (like, in a house) |
| 17:39.38 | sjansen | maquis: When you want to, harder than expected. When you don't want to, surprisingly easy. |
| 17:39.48 | maquis | sjansen: heh... |
| 17:39.56 | maquis | ok... to give a bit of background to the question |
| 17:40.52 | maquis | i'm working on a bit of fiction... and in my story, my main character is trying to climb out her bedroom window... but in the process, she loses her balance a bit and slips, catching herself, but her foot bangs into the window below. i'm trying to determine whether the window would break, or if she'd just end up making a racket... either way, her parents are going to notice.... |
| 17:42.54 | unum | I'd say make a racket |
| 17:45.24 | shalkie | Depends on the type of glass, the force of the foot, is the foot shod, where on the window pane did it strike? Older single pane glass would break fairly easy. However I remember trying to break a large pane of glass (at the request of the homeowner) with snowballs when I was a kid and it flexed a lot. |
| 17:46.09 | vontrapp | "at the request"... riiiight :) |
| 17:46.31 | maquis | shalkie: |
| 17:46.42 | vontrapp | the important thing is, does she get away? |
| 17:46.55 | maquis | normal new-construction home glas... probably double-paned. and she's got sneakers on |
| 17:47.05 | maquis | vontrapp: nope... |
| 17:47.06 | sjansen | Just to be safe, you could shift the foot from the glass to the frame. Plenty of noise (the glass acts as a speaker) but less probability of breaking. |
| 17:47.31 | vontrapp | make it "choose your own adventure style" |
| 17:47.38 | vontrapp | if you want the glass to break, turn to page... |
| 17:47.48 | sjansen | ~vontrapp++ |
| 17:48.09 | maquis | vontrapp: lol... i don't think i want to swap to cyoa style 16000 words into my story, but that would be funny |
| 17:48.10 | shalkie | Or you could go with a rap against the glass. Remember most homes have double/triple pane glass now and are rather good at sound proofing. |
| 17:48.21 | shalkie | Take sjansens advice. |
| 17:49.33 | vontrapp | alamrm |
| 17:49.33 | vontrapp | or even drop a purse |
| 17:49.49 | vontrapp | wow, ok, that didn't work |
| 17:49.59 | vontrapp | *she could fall onto the car and set off the alarm |
| 17:50.26 | shalkie | I don't think it matters if it breaks anyways. She should be concerned about the noise, that will build tension. Her panic, even if unreasonable, is good for tension building. And then she doesn't have to evade parents. |
| 17:50.31 | Migs | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4 |
| 17:51.55 | shalkie | Anyways, just a thought without reading it. |
| 17:53.05 | sjansen | Evade parents? In my head she's trying to evade ninja assassins who have taken her hostage. Her parents hear the sound and start to hope that she's going to escape. |
| 17:55.39 | vontrapp | she bumps the window and panics, in her panic she jumps down onto the car |
| 17:55.44 | vontrapp | alarm goes off, more panic |
| 17:56.01 | vontrapp | in further panic she runs out in the street and gets hit by a BICYCLE |
| 17:56.18 | vontrapp | a policeman on a bicycle |
| 18:01.23 | sjansen | the policemen is thrown off the bicycle and lands on the neighbor's old metal garbage cans |
| 18:02.21 | sjansen | the noise of the cans starts the neighborhood dogs barking |
| 18:02.26 | shalkie | His sidearm, having not been properly holstered flies free, the hammer catching on the cement, cocking and the sensitive trigger going off as it finishes its tumble to the ground. |
| 18:03.20 | sjansen | scared by the barking dogs, several cats are scared into discovered the spilled garbage |
| 18:03.49 | sjansen | where they start fighting over the leftovers |
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| 18:04.20 | shalkie | maquis: The moral to this tale is be careful what you ask for. |
| 18:05.29 | vontrapp | the gunshot hits a branch, which breaks and falls. it hits the window and, this time, the window breaks |
| 18:05.50 | sjansen | maquis: If you use my window frame idea, but don't include ninja assassins, I'm going to sue you for break of contract. |
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| 19:04.13 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 19:04.13 | ibot | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on ldav15 |
| 19:05.15 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | Don't tase me, bro! |
| 19:26.04 | shalkie | I have to say that I feel "Don't tase me, bro!" is no longer current and should be changed to the more current term of the realm "If you touch my junk I'll have you arrested" or the catchier "Don't touch my junk" |
| 19:28.29 | Migs | Agreed. |
| 19:34.02 | sjansen | Fine. |
| 19:34.49 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | Never gonna give you up; Never gonna let you down |
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| 20:55.33 | JoshH | don't tase my junk bro |
| 21:04.56 | Gate | ... ow. |
| 21:05.22 | Reilithion | ... I wasn't going to say anything. |
| 21:05.26 | Reilithion | But it sounds awful |
| 21:05.51 | vontrapp | i thought it was "taste"... |
| 21:05.57 | Reilithion | Not unlike "having a cow". |
| 21:06.03 | Reilithion | shudders |
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| 21:24.09 | Sparcler | ifconfig |
| 21:28.23 | sjansen | All the cool kids are using 'ip addr' these days. |
| 21:30.12 | sontek | its true |
| 21:30.32 | vontrapp | any cool people i know do |
| 21:30.41 | JoshH | i usually use ifconfig for v4, ip for v6 |
| 21:31.10 | JoshH | i can't give up my ifconfig habit cold turkey |
| 21:32.34 | JoshH | also iproute2 is linux only, i think |
| 21:32.55 | JoshH | so if you ever use bsd or anything you need to remember ifconfig |
| 21:33.05 | JoshH | or mac |
| 21:34.36 | shalkie | ifconfig is a more portable solution. |
| 21:34.53 | Reilithion | shalkie: Why? |
| 21:35.05 | mheath | for the reasons JoshH just stated |
| 21:35.20 | mheath | plus it's similar to ipconfig, for the windows types :) |
| 21:35.26 | JoshH | also some boxes probably don't have iproute2 installed |
| 21:35.34 | shalkie | It currently exists on more platforms then ip. |
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| 21:36.32 | shalkie | Perhaps I should have said a more "ported" solution. :-) |
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| 21:39.28 | tensai | I love ip addr because I can assign an ip address without having to create a named subinterface |
| 21:39.33 | tensai | that always bugged me about ifconfig |
| 21:43.51 | tensai | had to walk somebody over the phone though setting up the network on an ubuntu box using /etc/network/interfaces |
| 21:44.04 | tensai | what a pain in the butt. no wonder they created networkmanager. |
| 21:44.57 | tensai | speaking of that, I gave up on networkmanager. for my purposes, doing it manually is much easier. |
| 21:45.08 | JoshH | ya, i don't use network manager either |
| 21:45.49 | tensai | does networkmanager support tagged vlans? |
| 21:46.49 | JoshH | i think it only supports basic wifi and ip address settings |
| 21:47.36 | JoshH | walk him through apt-get install vlan, modprobe dot1q, etc, and have fun |
| 21:48.19 | tensai | luckily that setup was just a basic one. we couldn't find the networkmanager applet anywhere. |
| 21:49.27 | JoshH | the only thing i can see network manager being useful for is conveniently switching between different wireless networks |
| 21:50.12 | JoshH | which is all i've ever found it useful for, anyway |
| 22:02.33 | tensai | setting up wpa manually was annoying, I'll give it that |
| 22:02.36 | sjansen | Havnen't played with vlans, but NM has all kinds of features these days. |
| 22:02.55 | tensai | not being able to use more than one openvpn connection was a pain |
| 22:02.58 | sjansen | NM is my favorite way to configure OpenVPN. |
| 22:03.24 | tensai | I did like being able to easily start and stop openvpn though |
| 22:03.25 | JoshH | why? |
| 22:03.38 | sjansen | If your distro implements the right hooks, NM can manage distro config files. |
| 22:03.52 | JoshH | i've always made conf files by hand |
| 22:04.14 | JoshH | i only use more than one opevpn at a time on one box, and just run "openvpn blah.conf" for each one |
| 22:04.34 | sjansen | RHEL6 networking is managed by NM. |
| 22:05.02 | sjansen | Network setup in Anaconda (RHEL installer) is NM-based. |
| 22:05.24 | sjansen | I thought switching to NM for RHEL6 was gonna suck, but so far it's been great. |
| 22:09.12 | tensai | sjansen: I would recommend it for most users. for me it even mostly works. |
| 22:10.59 | tensai | ah, ok. networkmanager can handle vlan interfaces, but can't create the vlan itself. |
| 22:11.19 | JoshH | that makes sense |
| 22:19.27 | *** join/#utah fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 23:02.31 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@208.53.57.58) |
| 23:08.43 | eightyeight | anyone have a solid mouse that they use? |
| 23:11.04 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (~mheath@174-27-155-69.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:12.20 | sjansen | solid? |
| 23:19.21 | tensai | eightyeight: liquid or gaseous mice not working for you? |
| 23:21.00 | JoshH | i prefer plasma |
| 23:21.24 | Reilithion | Mice stripped of their free electrons? |
| 23:21.40 | JoshH | makes them a lot smoother |
| 23:21.57 | Reilithion | and they respond nicely to magnetic fields |
| 23:27.34 | eightyeight | gotta love nerds |
| 23:27.42 | eightyeight | take everything as literal as possible |
| 23:27.57 | Reilithion | eightyeight: Okay, we will. |
| 23:28.09 | eightyeight | so, with that in mind, let me rid myself of any potential confusing slang |
| 23:29.08 | eightyeight | does anyone here, in this irc channel currently paying attention to the converastion, have a wired computer mouse that has a strong, solid, feel to it that they really enjoy using, and would recommend to others? |
| 23:29.32 | eightyeight | if the answer is yes, what is it? |
| 23:34.17 | vontrapp | i have a fellowes with padding on top, and back-forward buttons by the thumb |
| 23:34.21 | vontrapp | i like the back button |
| 23:34.25 | tensai | I've always like the microsoft mice |
| 23:34.34 | vontrapp | blasphemy! |
| 23:35.15 | eightyeight | i've been looking at some weighted mice, initially for gaming. anyone have any experience with those? |
| 23:35.30 | Reilithion | My stock Dell mouse is okay. It hasn't broken in the several years I've had it, and with only the two main buttons and scroll-wheel, it doesn't feel overwrought. |
| 23:35.50 | vontrapp | i try to avoid the mouse in general, though. so i may not be the best arbiter of mouse solidarity |
| 23:36.08 | Reilithion | heh |
| 23:36.17 | vontrapp | i've had terrible luck with microsoft mice, the scroll wheel is always erratic in linux |
| 23:37.15 | eightyeight | i've got this cheap plastic kinsington mouse. it works fine, although it's a bit small and light |
| 23:37.28 | eightyeight | the scrollwheel is touchy too |
| 23:37.55 | eightyeight | trying to find the equivalent in mice to the model m keyboard |
| 23:40.00 | JoshH | i like microsoft intellimouse explorers |
| 23:40.55 | eightyeight | i do like their scrollwheel |
| 23:42.18 | unum | I just use a cheap logitec to compliment my model m |
| 23:43.44 | JoshH | why do printers always have to stop working at the worst times |
| 23:44.55 | *** join/#utah Reilithion (~reilithio@67-2-126-209.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:45.27 | Reilithion | JoshH: That's their job. A highly skilled team of engineers designed the very concept of the printer to be that way. |
| 23:48.36 | sjansen | I may have spoken positively of NM too soon. |
| 23:48.50 | sjansen | Kickstart and NM are not playing nicely. :-( |
| 23:49.01 | vontrapp | i was going to mention that... |
| 23:50.09 | sjansen | What the freak is eth0-eth1? How was it created and why did anyone think it was an acceptable thing to do to a server? |
| 23:50.32 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 23:50.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:51.02 | vontrapp | so... anybody know how to make yum's refresh-packagekit less annoying? |
| 23:51.13 | vontrapp | maybe i should just disable it |
| 23:51.25 | eightyeight | yeah... not a fan of packagekit |
| 23:51.26 | Reilithion | vontrapp: Scrap and install Ubuntu. |
| 23:51.27 | vontrapp | it would be ok if it updated once a day or so |
| 23:51.41 | vontrapp | but every freakin time i do just a search? |
| 23:51.48 | vontrapp | reminds me of gem... shudder |
| 23:52.33 | vontrapp | Reilithion: i'm forcing myself to learn fedora/rh because all the servers here run them |
| 23:52.46 | vontrapp | but yeah, otherwise i agree with that solution |
| 23:52.52 | Reilithion | vontrapp: Bitter pill. |
| 23:52.59 | eightyeight | learning fedora is a good thing to do, imo |
| 23:53.29 | eightyeight | the datacenter _is_ rhel. knowing its ins and outs can be mostly accomplished by running the platform it's built from |
| 23:54.14 | vontrapp | as long as packagekit isn't responsible for those automatic updates |
| 23:54.16 | Reilithion | So far, my favorite part of Fedora/redhat is what they've done with selinux. I applaud this work -- in fact, I give it a standing ovation. It's too bad so much else about the distribution disagrees with me. |
| 23:54.29 | vontrapp | i'm fine with my repo data not being up-to-the-freakin-minute |