IRC log for #utah on 20101110

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01:58.05Sargun_ScreenWhy hasn't anyone done a moonwalk during a baseball walk?
02:05.11eightyeightbecause you wouldn't be able to pull it off very well in dirt?
02:09.47Sargun_Screeneightyeight: but still, any moon walk, on a baseball field would be cool
02:26.52Teneor on the moon?!
02:29.58shalkieHmmm... How soft would you have to tap that baseball so the other person could catch it on the moon? hmmm..
02:30.56eightyeightyou just need to tap it hard enough that it has escape velocity
02:31.36shalkieThat could be real exciting or real boring, depending on the other players willingness to really jump for it...
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03:07.27shalkieIt seems you can sign up for rockmelt beta goodness through Facebook. And only through Facebook at the moment. :-( Oh well it seems to be Mac and Windows only atm too..
03:07.41shalkies/\.$//
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03:16.32eightyeightrockmelt. heh
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17:00.45sjansendoes the RHEL6 dance of joy
17:00.54goozbachlive!?
17:00.57goozbachreleased?!
17:01.03goozbachwherewherewhere
17:01.27sjansendevans already sees it on RHN
17:01.58sjansenWhich seems to confirm the theory that RH's "important webcast" today is the official announcement.
17:02.53goozbachI only see the beta and HTB
17:02.58goozbach~wtf HTB
17:25.06goozbachThis has to be the *WORST* hold music ever!
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17:27.53sjansenrealizes that the Linux community has never seen anything like the coming Ubuntu wars
17:28.13goozbachsjansen: do you remember the X wars?
17:28.19goozbachX vs Xorg!
17:28.29sjansenA mere skirmish.
17:28.34goozbachI *STILL* have flashbacks
17:28.45goozbachoh that's right... you were a draft doger
17:29.06sjansenI prefer observer.
17:29.56sjansenWe've had our share of great satans over the years, companies that threatened to enslave the righteous.
17:30.37goozbachthe only good thing to come out of the X wars was that I met a very smart, very capable, military squirrel. And we joined forces for my squirrel mercenary force
17:30.39sjansenSymbolics, Red Hat, etc.
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17:31.18sjansenBut in the past, most companies have ignored much of the controversy, and as a result so have their users.
17:32.40sjansenOne of the things that sets Canonical apart, however, is it's drive to turn users into communities.
17:33.31sjansenAnd now those communities are realizing that the rest of the universe sees them as infidels.
17:33.53goozbachI say we invade!
17:34.17sjansenUnlike past conflicts, this one probably won't be a cold war.
17:35.08goozbachstarts on his RHEL bunker
17:35.09sjansenJono Bacon probably doesn't even realize he's fanning the flames of conflict.
17:36.34sjansenLike the diplomats who desperately worked to avoid WWI and WWII, his attempts to appease everyone can only make things worse.
17:37.57sjansenOr perhaps the Civil War is a better metaphor.
17:38.24sjansenCousing vs. cousin. Brother vs brother.
17:39.07sjansenasks goozbach to make room in his bunker
17:40.00goozbachhave a prefered sysid?
17:40.09sjansen500, or course
17:40.33goozbachruns useradd -u 500 -G trusted sjansen
17:40.40goozbachand asks for an ssh pubkey
17:41.52sjansenattempts a DCC
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17:43.27goozbachRSA?!
17:43.32goozbachseriously!?
17:44.01jsmithgoozbach: Let me guess -- you still use your GL UID?
17:44.18goozbachjsmith: how'd you guess?
17:44.46goozbachhowever my homedir is about two years older than that
17:45.01jsmithgoozbach: Because I'm smart :-p
17:45.07goozbachwell...
17:45.30goozbachwhat's wrong with using the same UID?
17:46.03jsmithNothing at all...
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18:58.20sjansenhttp://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html-single/Release_Notes/index.html
18:59.43goozbachsaddles up to watch the webcast
19:20.40sjansenI'm teaching, so let me know if the webcast contains anything more than rah rah.
19:21.27goozbachsjansen: will do
19:21.35goozbach1800 new feature
19:21.38goozbachs
19:21.58sjansenGo team go!
19:22.03sjansenGo! Fight! Win!
19:22.41goozbachyay!
19:25.00jsmith600 person years of development
19:25.41goozbachwonders how much of that is Fedora development
19:28.29sjansenNot much is my bet.
19:28.40sjansenRHEL5 has been around for, what, a decade?
19:29.25sjansenSo 40 people working on RHEL6 doing overtime for a decade equals 600 person years easy.
19:30.05Migssounds like Microsoft's turnaround
19:35.29goozbachsjansen: funny you say decade
19:35.45goozbachI've heard the phrase "Building on the work of the last 10 years"
19:35.52goozbachabout 15 times
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19:49.55Sargun_ScreenHow do I turn in people for Piracy?
19:50.51goozbachSargun_Screen: which kind of piracy?
19:50.55goozbachmovies/music?
19:50.59goozbachor software?
19:56.13Jayce^High seas..
19:56.38goozbachohh
19:56.45goozbachSargun_Screen: just pack an AK?
19:59.34Jayce^send in ninjas
20:00.16goozbachohh good answer
20:02.17*** join/#utah bmidgley2 (~brad@72.11.74.102)
20:02.44tarrantThe problem with ninja's is that a ninja's power has a reverse depedency to the number of ninjas around. The more you have the weaker they are. So the answer is to send in 1 ninja.
20:05.03goozbachtarrant: if the trailer to "way of the warrior" is any indication, you are corrrect
20:05.24goozbachor if you zombiefy a ninja, you could cut him in half and get even *MORE* power
20:05.44Jayce^but does that math only really count when it's multiple ninjas after a single ninja?
20:05.50Jayce^or against all forms of opposition?
20:05.59tarrantway of warrior shouldn't have ninjas in it. It is Chinese not Japanese.
20:06.31Sargun_Screengoozbach: Movies and music.
20:06.43Sargun_Screengoozbach: I think it's unethical, and wrong
20:07.15goozbach~google report to riaa
20:07.32tarrantand mpaa for movies
20:09.04goozbachyeah
20:11.33tarrantBut becareful (and nice) if the person where to get sued he would owe on order of $3k per song which quickly adds up to ridiculus rates
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20:21.25Sargun_Screengoozbach: I'm in the UK
20:21.39Sargun_Screentarrant: I could care less
20:21.45Gatethat's an interesting dilemma. The file-sharer's are unethical, but so is the enforcement
20:22.12Gatein the UK the fine is bound to be more reasonable. only the US is giving out multimillion dollar settlments AFAIK
20:23.41tarrantThe english appears to BPI. I'm just saying be careful and *aware* that what you are doing could (unlikely but could) ruin their life.
20:23.58GateFor what amounts to petty theft
20:25.10Sargun_ScreenPeople have turned me into the cops for less
20:25.39Sargun_Screentarrant: thanks.
20:27.35Sargun_Screenunfortunately, the BPI doesn't seem to be putting suits against individuals
20:32.57goozbachredhat got rid of the RHCT
20:33.10goozbachit's now the RHCSA (certified system admin)
20:34.05Sargun_Screen:-(
20:34.10Sargun_Screenwhat is RHCE supposed to be
20:35.03shalkieEngineer. Which I always thought was a bit grandious. It (to me) sounds like I should be able to rewrite portions of the kernel or something...
20:35.46mheath_Wait. You consider someone downloading music to be unacceptable, so you are prepared to report them to a predatory litigation team that will sue them into oblivion using ridiculously inflated values for what they stole.
20:35.49mheath_Good luck with that.
20:36.23Sargun_Screenmheath_: it's for the greater good
20:36.30GateSargun_Screen: report them to their ISP.
20:36.34mheath_shalkie, People tend to overuse the term "Engineer" in the IT industry
20:36.53mheath_50% of our IT staff at my work are "engineers".
20:37.19tarrantand venture data I was a "data engineer"
20:37.20Sargun_ScreenGate: why would the ISP care?
20:40.46Sargun_Screenit's just bits over their pipes
20:41.14mheath_Sargun_Screen, sorry, I disagree. That's like saying that it is for the "greater good" to make sure that a kid who stole a candy bar spends the rest of his childhood in a Juvenile Detention Center.
20:42.05Sargun_Screengoozbach: I need to get my RHCE renewed :-(
20:44.05Sargun_Screenneeds to get some "real" wireless gear in place here
20:45.03sjansenmheath_: I disagree. The RIAA's approach is closer to selling the kid into slavery, not a life of free meals and warm rooms.
20:45.18mheath_sjansen, :)
20:45.58GateSargun_Screen: The ISP is a sue target for the content companies, they may not act, but they may care
20:46.18GateI think sjansen's analogy is closer to the truth
20:46.19Sargun_ScreenGate: they don't
20:46.36sjansengoozbach: Does that mean RHCSA is a lower level cert than RHCE? 'Cause all the other RHCS* are above RHCE.
20:47.00GateSargun_Screen: they care if they get sued or put under legislation, as is close in several places (not sure about the UK, but France, yes)
20:47.24sjansenSargun_Screen: So why should you? This is a minor civil matter, and there's already rabid packs of lawyers working to find an "acceptable" social response.
20:48.01sjansenIf the parliment, police, etc. don't consider it a big deal, just go on with your life.
20:48.30sjansenMost nations already have laws to extract license fees with every sale of blank cds, cd players, mp3 players, etc.
20:48.48sjansenIn the US, that isn't enough for the RIAA. They want MORE MONEYZ!!!!1
20:48.53Gateblech
20:49.47sjansenMany parts of Europe have decided that things shouldn't be so heavily balanced in favor of corporations. Who are you to decide they're wrong?
20:50.07sjansenAnd don't kid yourself. It's stealing from the corps, not the artists. Most artists get peanuts.
20:50.46sjansenTell the person you disagree with their behavior. That should be enough.
20:50.54Sargun_Screensjansen: yeah, but this person thinks that stealing is "right"
20:51.12sjansen(If it helps, you can tell them you disagree with their behavioUr.)
20:51.38tarrantso he is a college student with little exposure to the outside world. Turning him in is going to do more harm then good.
20:52.00Sargun_Screens/him/her/
20:52.07Sargun_Screenwell, she
20:52.17tarrantOnce she starts producing something she will begin to realize the issue with piracy (hopefully)
20:52.19Sargun_Screenerm, s/he/she/
20:52.24sjansenIf you must do something, get a law degree, get hired by the government, come back and exact the justice you so desperately need.
20:52.35goozbachsjansen: from what I can tell the RHCSA == RHCT for all intents and purposes
20:52.45sjansenweird
20:53.06Sargun_Screenshe's studying law, if pirtating music can apparently get you disbarred
20:53.13Sargun_Screenin the state
20:53.14Sargun_Screens
20:54.59Sargun_Screensjansen: do you think piracy is right?
20:55.22goozbachgurulabs has been busy, they announced their courseware has the RHEL6 features!
20:55.24goozbachnice
20:55.52jsmithYeah :-)
20:56.40goozbachjsmith: what's the Fedora CSI in a nutshell?  The webpage is kinda vague
20:57.08jsmithgoozbach: Guidelines for how to setup servers, keep them secure, etc.
20:57.21jsmithgoozbach: I'm not sure how far mmcgrath got in writing that
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20:57.42jsmithgoozbach: Think SOPs/best practices for infrastructure
20:57.46goozbachnice
20:57.57goozbachmaybe I can contribute there...
20:58.04goozbachtrying to find a niche
20:58.04jsmithgoozbach: Absolutely!
20:58.19GateArtist's get peanuts because of the classical requirements for music distribution. I think the entire business model RIAA represents is going to become increasingly obsolete and they are wailing against it
20:58.39goozbachGate: don't forget the nashing
20:59.02GateWith Amazon MP3 and other usable, low cost, high-yeild distribution systems the recording "industry" is being left out in the cold
20:59.05goozbachgnashing that is
21:00.44GateI am all for indie artists who would never have gotten a recording contract releasing their work online
21:01.12GateFor instance, I am getting in to an artist named Parov Stelar who is with some label I have never heard of (they don't even have a wikipedia page!)
21:01.14Migssame here
21:01.31Migsmost indie artists find greater success and revenue when they release their work for free, in fact
21:02.06GateThe same upset is happening in gaming, with shops like valve and GPG relasing indie games on the cheap over the network
21:02.23Migsit's amazing how many people enjoy throwing indie artists a few bucks, even though their albums are free
21:02.23GateEA and the classic distribution network are getting fewer sales
21:03.00goozbachGate: look at notch
21:03.05GateIts the small groups/individuals that have unique and interesting ideas, REWARD CREATIVITY!
21:03.09Gatenotch?
21:03.14goozbachhe's a millionare, from creating minecraft
21:03.26goozbachand it's not even out of beta yet
21:03.45Gateprecisely
21:05.17Gateit was a group of college students who created Nerbacular Drop
21:05.29Gate(which Valve made into portal)
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21:06.02Migspart of that was just dumb luck
21:06.10Sargun_ScreenGate: Software is VERY different than music
21:06.15GateI don't fault corporations in general, I just think that when their business model is out of date they should either adapt or die
21:06.17MigsMinecraft isn't THAT revolutionary.  Not more creative than a large number of indie games.
21:06.19GateSargun_Screen: really?
21:06.22Migshe just got good, fortunate press.
21:06.24GateI don't think so, fundamentally
21:06.35Gatenot in the levels I am talking about
21:06.37goozbachGate: same thing with the group who did "paint" which will become portal2
21:06.55goozbachSargun_Screen: from a creation standpoint?
21:07.01goozbachfrom a distribution standpoint?
21:07.03goozbachnot really
21:07.33goozbachsure you can't "perform" software
21:07.36GateSargun_Screen: its a different type of creativity, but it is creativity
21:07.45goozbachbut there are similarites
21:08.53GateSoftware is created and redistributed. Music is created and redistributed. You don't have software concerts, but the mass media problems and models are the same.
21:09.20Sargun_Screengoozbach: from an industry standpoint
21:09.37Sargun_ScreenGate: most musicians make moneyfrom concerts/merchandise
21:10.00GateSargun_Screen: Programmer is the artist, distributor is the label. the model is quite similar
21:10.25GateSargun_Screen: true, but I don't think it has to be that way
21:10.41GateSargun_Screen: and I think the internet distribution model is changing that.
21:11.28GateFor the same reason no one buys newspapers anymore, no one will buy CDs
21:11.43GateYou can get more, faster and with better quality online
21:12.39*** join/#utah Reilithion (~reilithio@67-2-110-92.slkc.qwest.net)
21:14.29GateAnd when you can pay and download it for a few dollars legally, why pirate it?
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21:41.45goozbachaparently you need to take the RHCSA exam before you can take the RHCE exam
21:41.53goozbachcashcow much?
21:41.56goozbachle sigh
22:02.16tvc123really odd that they changed that
22:06.14*** join/#utah undertakingyou (~will@67.214.250.163)
22:06.16sjansenSargun_Screen: I don't use the term piracy.
22:06.39sjansenI also choose not to copy music, movies or software without paying for them.
22:06.43undertakingyoumindjuju: ping
22:07.25sjansenIllegal copying is like shop lifting. No swords, no killing, no raping or pillaging.
22:07.37mindjujuundertakingyou -- pong
22:07.57undertakingyoumindjuju: where did we get those wireless interview clip mics for UTOCS?
22:07.57sjansenI don't shop lift.
22:08.20sjansenI'd probably report a shop lifter, but that because I know the punishment will match the crime.
22:08.25mindjujui think herlo got them from radio shack
22:08.36goozbachI did once. Stole a single gumball accidentally
22:08.52goozbachmy grandma asked me where I got the gum and I told her
22:08.54sjansenIn the US, the punishment for illegal copying does not match the crime. Therefore I choose principled non-cooperation.
22:09.16sjansenI will not help the jackbooted thugs of the RIAA to ruin anyone's life over a copy of songs.
22:09.20goozbachshe made me walk back into the minimart and pay for it, and ask for forgivness
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23:54.36GateAnyone recommend a decent HTTP/S proxy in the UK?

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