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| 03:50.16 | JessieAMorris | Howdy all! |
| 03:50.32 | Reilithion | Howdy? Oh dear. |
| 03:50.48 | Reilithion | Somebody call Texas. Let them know we've got another one. |
| 03:52.24 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: I could say Cheerio if you'd rather. |
| 03:53.00 | Reilithion | Not with international phone rates the way they are right now, thanks. |
| 03:54.08 | Reilithion | You can skip G'day, Konban-ha, and Namaste for the same reason. |
| 03:55.02 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Acked. |
| 03:55.10 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: ... well-played |
| 03:58.45 | Reilithion | Man this code is weird |
| 04:01.45 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: What language and what for? |
| 04:02.19 | Reilithion | It's a data compression tool coded in C++. Bicom by Matt Timmermans. Bet you've never heard of it. |
| 04:02.56 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: It probably wouldn't be so bad if it were commented better. |
| 04:03.13 | Reilithion | Or if the variable names were a bit more descriptive. |
| 04:03.26 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Never heard of it. But I to am in C++ land right now. |
| 04:03.57 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Oh? What treacherous seas are you sailing in? |
| 04:04.56 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Data Structures and Algorithms project. |
| 04:05.02 | JessieAMorris | Working on a hashing class. |
| 04:05.39 | Reilithion | C++ scares me. I'm much more comfortable with other languages. |
| 04:06.42 | Reilithion | D, for instance. If everybody suddenly adopted D, the world would be a better place. *nodnod* |
| 04:07.26 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: I could see that. D looks like a good language. Never had a chance to use it though. |
| 04:08.54 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: It's worth trying out. The worst part is installing the tools. ldc, llvm, and the Tango library are better installed from source than your package manager. |
| 04:09.07 | Reilithion | Once you've got that, though, D is beautiful. |
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| 04:09.35 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Like C++ but with managed memory and loss suck? |
| 04:10.07 | Reilithion | 90% of the power of C++ in 10% of the complexity. |
| 04:11.14 | Reilithion | D's garbage collection is suitable for most things, but can be overridden in cases where the programmer wants to manage memory on their own. |
| 04:12.37 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Sounds wonderful. :-) |
| 04:13.14 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: I like it so far. I'm trying to get involved with the xomb project -- an exokernel written in D. |
| 04:13.30 | fadein | Is there an open-source, free-as-in-freedom compiler for D? All I've ever found are the tools from Digital Mars |
| 04:14.20 | Reilithion | fadein: Yes. There is gdc, a front-end for the GCC, and ldc, a front-end for llvm. I believe the DMD front-end is also completely open source now. |
| 04:14.57 | Reilithion | I mentioned ldc earlier specifically because I believe it's currently the best free-as-in-freedom compiler for D currently. |
| 04:15.26 | Reilithion | ... is redundant. |
| 04:17.07 | Reilithion | It's really too bad there's a war between the two different standard libraries for D. I'm rooting for Tango, myself. |
| 04:17.27 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: What are the two libs? |
| 04:17.35 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Names of them, anyways. |
| 04:18.05 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Phobos was developed by the same guy who came up with D in the first place. He designed a great language, and made a fantastic compiler, but I am not impressed with his idea of a standard library. |
| 04:18.29 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Tango was made by people who weren't satisfied with Phobos. It's a completely community-driven project, as I understand it. |
| 04:18.44 | Reilithion | It's also much more extensive and object-oriented than Phobos. |
| 04:19.16 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Hmmm.... I see. You make Tango sound far superior. |
| 04:19.53 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: I am biased, of course. But my opinion is based on the fact that Tango is object-oriented, whereas vast portions of Phobos are not. |
| 04:20.11 | Reilithion | D is an object-oriented language. It seems silly that its standard library should not be. |
| 04:20.49 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Specific examples? What structures, etc. are not? |
| 04:21.07 | Reilithion | Even writing to standard output demonstrates this. |
| 04:21.16 | Reilithion | In Phobos, you use the function writefln() |
| 04:21.44 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: That seems... broken. ha |
| 04:21.46 | Reilithion | In Tango, you ask for help from the static object Stdout (imported from Tango.io0 |
| 04:21.59 | Reilithion | s/0/)/ |
| 04:22.54 | JessieAMorris | Hmmm... I see. I hate file I/O in C++/C. Is it better in D? |
| 04:23.35 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Don't know for sure quite yet. I haven't done much file I/O in D yet. But I'm at least certain that you don't use any silly << or >> operators. |
| 04:24.03 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: I wish it could be as simple as Ruby or Python. ;-) |
| 04:24.48 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: *shrugs* Nature of system programming, my friend. Certain sacrifices must be made in the name of NOT being bound by a Global Interpreter Lock. |
| 04:25.31 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: True. Speed and flexibility have their costs. |
| 04:25.45 | Reilithion | Still, D makes it pretty at least. ;-) |
| 04:26.23 | Reilithion | I just wish Martin had taken a hint from Java and made the class inheritance operator into a keyword instead of a stupid :. |
| 04:27.17 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Picky, picky... |
| 04:27.48 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: You expected something different from a programmer? |
| 04:29.57 | Reilithion | I'm going to try out the built-in unit-testing here in a bit. |
| 04:30.16 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Well, I wanted to see how passionate about programming you were. |
| 04:30.54 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Here's a hint: I just wrote an arithmetic coder as the first non-trivial piece of code in a new language. |
| 04:32.21 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: You sound like a kid I know. You aren't still in High School, are you? haha |
| 04:32.34 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: And I do NOT mean that as an insult. |
| 04:32.53 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Heh. No, I am not blendmaster. |
| 04:32.53 | JessieAMorris | I know a very intellegent programmer who loves D and is still in high school. |
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| 04:34.14 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: For some reason, that reminds me of a line from Ghostbusters. Venkman: "Oh, we've got to get these two together." Spangler: "I think that would be extraordinarily bad." |
| 04:39.24 | JessieAMorris | Blech. An off by one error. |
| 04:39.32 | Reilithion | Love those |
| 04:40.10 | JessieAMorris | Fixed. :-) Easy enough. |
| 04:40.54 | Reilithion | And, that's why I love those |
| 04:43.04 | JessieAMorris | And as far as I can tell, my project is now done. |
| 04:43.37 | JessieAMorris | And now time to cross compile for Windows using MinGW. |
| 04:44.07 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: How easy is that, by the way? If I ever compile using MinGW, I'm usually doing it /from/ Windows in the first place. |
| 04:45.28 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: I am going from OSX to Windows. I installed some bininaries, made a symbolic link from the MinGW bininary to /usr/bin/g++-mingw and the commands are all the exact same. |
| 04:46.35 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: What about libraries? Do you need a lot of MinGW libs floating around, or does one set cover everything? |
| 04:47.00 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: One set has been it for me. |
| 04:47.12 | Reilithion | sweetness |
| 04:49.01 | JessieAMorris | Reilithion: Only problem I have had is that when you throw a char*, g++ treats it as a char* and MinGW treats it as a char const* |
| 04:49.38 | Reilithion | Seems like it might be work-aroundable |
| 04:50.13 | JessieAMorris | Yeah, since g++ catches a char* when you catch a char const* |
| 04:51.20 | Reilithion | Ugh, this is driving me nuts. I understand a lot of what's going on in this code, but Matt's end-treatment is just beyond me. I simply don't grok it at all. |
| 04:52.40 | JessieAMorris | Ughhh... Stupid VM is going SLOW. |
| 04:53.21 | JessieAMorris | And making my whole computer equally slow. |
| 04:54.50 | Reilithion | Someday, XOmB will help with that. |
| 04:56.32 | bonez2046 | quick question.. is the traffic here for #utah logged somewhere, in searchable format? |
| 04:57.13 | Reilithion | bonez2046: Probably. |
| 04:58.46 | Reilithion | bonez2046: If you wanted to, you could wget everything at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ and unzip it, then use grep. |
| 04:59.42 | bonez2046 | ok.. |
| 04:59.44 | bonez2046 | thanks.. |
| 05:00.19 | Reilithion | Of course, that'd only get you back to January of 2010 |
| 05:03.27 | JessieAMorris | Sweet. Cross compliling worked beautifully this time. :-) |
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| 05:06.58 | JessieAMorris | And now I am off. |
| 05:07.08 | JessieAMorris | Good talking to you Reilithion |
| 05:07.20 | Reilithion | Likewise, JessieAMorris |
| 05:07.26 | Reilithion | JessieAMorris: Take care |
| 05:11.06 | amjith_ | sontek: Hello good sir. I hear you recently switched to Xmonad as your window manager. |
| 05:11.20 | amjith_ | Any pointers for noob who is looking to switch? |
| 05:24.41 | fadein | amjith_: learn some Haskell |
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| 05:32.21 | amjith_ | fadein: I tried, I was following Learn You a Haskell, but then life happened and I got distracted. |
| 05:40.29 | Reilithion | That happens sometimes. |
| 05:40.57 | Reilithion | So, what's so great about Haskell? |
| 05:41.39 | amjith_ | It was one of those "Oooh Shiny!" moments for me. |
| 05:42.04 | amjith_ | But I've heard that it is a completely different way to thinking when it comes to programming. |
| 05:42.24 | amjith_ | Something with functional, purely mathematical. |
| 05:42.40 | Reilithion | Is that just because it's a functional programming paradigm, or is there more to it? |
| 05:44.13 | amjith_ | Yes. But also I've heard that in other functional languages (aka Lisp) it is still possible to write procedural code, but Haskell is purely functional. |
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| 06:42.10 | Reilithion | make-- |
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| 12:42.37 | sontek | amjith_: I did! |
| 12:42.46 | sontek | amjith_: its so nice |
| 12:42.56 | sontek | amjith_: install dzen with it |
| 12:43.48 | sontek | mod-p will open dzen, mop-shift-enter opens up terminal, mod-j and mod-k to move around your windows, mod-num to switch between desktops |
| 12:43.55 | sontek | mod-space to switch between layouts |
| 12:45.34 | sontek | amjith_: set your mod button to be mod4 right away, having alt as the default is silly, too many alt combinations exist already |
| 12:46.20 | sontek | https://github.com/sontek/dotfiles/blob/master/_xmonad/xmonad.hs |
| 12:46.23 | sontek | thats how you do that |
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| 13:38.46 | amjith_ | sontek: thank you for the hs file. I'll try it out. |
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| 14:49.22 | Migs | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sxBcxYaZMc&feature=player_embedded |
| 14:49.26 | Migs | pwnage |
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| 17:15.15 | sjansen | http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/08/announcing-openrespect-org/ |
| 17:15.38 | sjansen | Increasing? |
| 17:16.05 | jsmith | sjansen: What's worse, he's taken to dropping my name in his blog posts! |
| 17:16.07 | sjansen | I'd buy increasing community size. |
| 17:16.08 | sjansen | Increasing communication channels. |
| 17:16.53 | sjansen | But in general, I'd say he's candy coating history. |
| 17:17.00 | jsmith | didn't agree with the wording, as you mind find in the meeting notes of yesterday's Fedora Board meeting |
| 17:17.12 | sjansen | There's always been a fair amount of friction in the F/OSS worlds. |
| 17:17.24 | jsmith | "Respect is earned. Maybe he meant Civility instead of Respect?" |
| 17:18.22 | sjansen | Respect is a popular concept. It places responsibility on the other person. |
| 17:18.53 | sjansen | By focusing on respect, one can think "I'm just acting this way 'cause he dis'd me." |
| 17:19.38 | sjansen | Perhaps he's trying to tap into those pre-programmed brain cells and reprogram them. |
| 17:20.20 | jsmith | It's a long story... |
| 17:20.24 | jsmith | ... but since you asked :-) |
| 17:20.39 | jsmith | He proposed this idea to me (and the Debian project leader) several months ago |
| 17:20.51 | jsmith | Said he'd write up a draft, and then involve us in helping to shape it |
| 17:21.02 | jsmith | Boy were we surprised over the weekend :-) |
| 17:27.53 | goozbach | I just read the board meeting notes on the subject... kinda suprising |
| 17:28.37 | unum | sjansen: jquery meeting tonight :) |
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| 17:33.33 | sjansen | No love for openSUSE, huh? |
| 17:35.21 | jsmith | sjansen: I have nothing against them... and have stated as much publicly and privately |
| 17:36.42 | sjansen | Actually, I was wondering about Jono. He contacted Fedora and Debian. Did he contact openSUSE? |
| 17:37.53 | jsmith | Not that I'm aware of |
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| 17:38.03 | jsmith | But then again, he doesn't tell me much |
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| 17:56.07 | sjansen | Me is disappointed to discover that openantidisrespect.org doesn't exist. |
| 17:57.39 | Gate | I need some diabollical interview questions to ask a software engineer |
| 17:57.57 | Migs | http://art.yale.edu/ |
| 17:59.40 | sjansen | Gate: If there were a button that is you pressed would depot $1 million in your bank account but also kill ten people in China, would you press the button? |
| 17:59.51 | bonez2046 | where's the button? |
| 18:00.12 | Gate | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBNOXYlYswA |
| 18:00.17 | sjansen | unum: What time is the meeting again? |
| 18:00.21 | Gate | ~roosterteeth++ |
| 18:02.48 | amjith_1 | sjansen: 7:30pm (jQuery Presentation) |
| 18:04.14 | amjith_1 | What meeting is this? I just heard about the time and place in the SLLUG mailing list. |
| 18:25.36 | unum | sjansen: 7:30 pm |
| 18:25.42 | unum | oh he got it |
| 18:25.55 | unum | amjith_1: jquery meeting by blendmaster |
| 18:26.31 | amjith_1 | unum: Is this a monthly meetup or just a one time presentation? |
| 18:26.41 | unum | amjith_1: one time presentation |
| 18:26.52 | unum | I can't make sllug meetings anymore |
| 18:27.00 | unum | and wanted to see this |
| 18:27.23 | amjith_1 | unum: Cool. I'm excited about it. |
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| 18:29.11 | sjansen | http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/09/bbc-iplayer-going-international-next-year-will-be-either-fee-o/ |
| 18:29.16 | sjansen | Hooray! |
| 18:41.46 | *** topic/#utah by rsimpkins -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft server up at plug.org | November PLUG Canceled due to Flash security bug on Solaris. Don't show up. |
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| 21:53.19 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Adobe has kindly hosting Plug for years now, but as Linux users I don't think we're allowed to show gratitude to evil corporations even if they do contribute to Gtk+. |
| 21:54.03 | sjansen | Therefore, to show our disappoint... no, ANGER that this months meeting has been preempted, I believe there is only one appropriate response. |
| 21:54.09 | sjansen | Pitchforks and fire! |
| 21:54.29 | Gate | sjansen: Open Source is not Anti-Corporatism, you are thinking the Free Software/GNU people there |
| 21:54.33 | sjansen | Plug is not cancelled, merely located. |
| 21:54.56 | Gate | prepares for the backlash |
| 21:55.01 | sjansen | Riot at Omniture 7pm Nov 10, 2010!!!!!!!1 |
| 21:56.01 | sjansen | Gate: We'll see if you sing a new song after we put you in a catapult and launch you at a second story window a few time. |
| 21:56.22 | macnewbold | riot? wow |
| 21:57.03 | sjansen | BYOMC (bring your own moltav cocktail) |
| 21:57.34 | Reilithion | sjansen scares me sometimes. |
| 21:59.58 | sjansen | ~Reilithion++ |
| 22:00.17 | sjansen | Phear and twemble befowe me! |
| 22:01.27 | Reilithion | I get karma for being afraid? |
| 22:01.28 | goozbach | it's so hard to when you speak in that accent |
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| 22:03.04 | Gate | Reilithion: sometimes? |
| 22:03.30 | Gate | sjansen: I have friends at Omniture. They can take you. |
| 22:04.29 | sjansen | I too have friends at Omniture. |
| 22:05.01 | sjansen | Much as it will tear me up inside, it is our duty to stake them to a wall and flay them alive. |
| 22:05.04 | Gate | But can they beat you up? |
| 22:05.25 | sjansen | Perhaps. |
| 22:05.45 | sjansen | But I know that once you've had a chance to sleep on it, you'll see the justness of our cause. |
| 22:06.10 | sjansen | I will make you a general. You will lead the charge as storm the corridors of Omniture. |
| 22:07.12 | sjansen | I am confident that when the anger of a berserker has descended on you, no man will be your match. |
| 22:07.27 | Gate | lol |
| 22:07.37 | Reilithion | Just be careful of those women. |
| 22:08.15 | Gate | Especially the arsty designer types. Never know when they will have steel-studded jewlery and the will to use it. |
| 22:08.55 | Reilithion | Or a well-concealed cudgel. |
| 22:10.42 | Gate | I gotta wonder if there are some alternate uses for that dungeon-decorated gaming room... |
| 22:11.25 | Reilithion | s/-decorated// |
| 22:11.44 | Reilithion | s/gaming/torture/ |
| 22:12.30 | Reilithion | s/alternate/primary/ |
| 22:16.07 | shalkie | sjansen: Are you saying that I have one less reason to keep my linode system in London? |
| 22:16.18 | Reilithion | s/I gotta wonder if t/T/ |
| 22:16.23 | sjansen | http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/11/09/131192182/cotton?ft=1&f=93559255 |
| 22:16.35 | sjansen | Argh! I've changed my mind. |
| 22:16.44 | sjansen | We're not rioting at Ominiture. |
| 22:16.52 | sjansen | Tomorrow we riot in DC! |
| 22:18.19 | sjansen | "We can't end the subsidy. Here's a bribe instead." |
| 22:18.24 | sjansen | shakes his head |
| 22:29.45 | Reilithion | sjansen: It makes sense from a Machiavellian point of view. If the US government changed its policy because Brazil was griping and shaking its economic spear, a whole lot of other countries would start griping and shaking spears. |
| 22:49.46 | tensai | but isn't the point that the subsidy is wrong, that all those countries have a valid complaint? |
| 22:50.10 | fadein | tensai: you misunderstand. subsidies are bad when *other* countries use them. |
| 22:50.25 | tensai | runs sjansen through a cotton gin |
| 22:50.41 | tensai | fadein: ah, I forgot that the world revolves around us |
| 22:51.00 | sjansen | I'm generally opposed to subsidies. |
| 22:51.26 | sjansen | I'm even more annoyed to paying bribes to foreign nations so that we can continue to bribe local industries. |
| 22:52.16 | tensai | sjansen: would a bribe change your mind? |
| 22:52.26 | sjansen | It might. |
| 22:52.32 | JoshH | how do i get subsidized, that's all i want to know |
| 22:52.35 | tensai | ~bribe sjansen |
| 22:52.35 | ibot | ACTION slaps tensai and calls the cops to turn in tensai for trying to bribe sjansen |
| 22:52.42 | JoshH | starts a farm |
| 23:30.58 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 23:46.50 | fadein | tensai: you can't say "us" without U.S. |
| 23:47.09 | fadein | tensai: buy GOLD! |
| 23:51.51 | Gate | fadein: Just so the government can rob it from you? Read the history of the great depression sometime. |
| 23:52.15 | Gate | A good study in what meddling by the federal government can do: make us ALL dirt poor. |
| 23:52.48 | sjansen | decides that goozbach is dangerously wrong and must be stopped by any means necessary |
| 23:53.49 | Gate | tries to figure out where goozbach comes into the conversation |
| 23:56.14 | eightyeight | just saw a canadian goose |
| 23:56.33 | sjansen | accuses eightyeight of conspiring with goozbach |
| 23:56.37 | sjansen | ~blame eightyeight |
| 23:56.37 | ibot | ACTION blames eightyeight (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 23:58.11 | eightyeight | takes the blame and canada |