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| 08:45.13 | infowolfe | anybody interested in some SATA PMP backplanes? Sil3726, pictures: https://sites.google.com/a/starchaser.org/backplane/ trying to setup a group-buy |
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| 11:45.52 | eightyeight | got my 4-1 tb raid 10 array built. now to install debian. :) |
| 12:17.33 | infowolfe | ^5 |
| 12:37.40 | eightyeight | well, it seems the hardware raid controller i purchased is merely a fakeraid controller |
| 12:37.54 | eightyeight | so, looks like i'd have to do software raid anywho |
| 12:38.46 | infowolfe | what'd you get? |
| 12:38.54 | infowolfe | hipoint? |
| 12:39.02 | infowolfe | Sil? |
| 12:40.47 | eightyeight | rosewill, which is silicon |
| 12:41.30 | eightyeight | meh. it works. i didn't have sata connections for the drives, and this provided that capability |
| 12:42.06 | eightyeight | and using mdadm to build the raid 10 is going to take some time. even moving at 28MBps |
| 12:43.23 | infowolfe | sounds about right |
| 12:43.56 | infowolfe | did you see the link earlier? Sil3726 :p |
| 12:44.02 | infowolfe | perfect for softraid :p |
| 12:44.18 | infowolfe | the only problem i forsee is going to be one of bandwidth :p |
| 12:46.48 | infowolfe | if each disk is giving a meager 120->65MiB/s, even when the drives are fully stroked out, i'll have a peak sequential speed higher than the 3Gbit/s provided by sata2 :p |
| 12:47.15 | eightyeight | nice |
| 12:48.40 | eightyeight | i'm quite impatient, so it's going to be hard for me to wait 20 hours, while this array builds |
| 12:49.43 | infowolfe | why do you have to wait? |
| 12:50.14 | eightyeight | so i can put lvm on top |
| 12:50.47 | infowolfe | you do realize you can go on with your business while it rebuilds, right? :p |
| 12:50.50 | infowolfe | just don't reboot |
| 12:51.10 | eightyeight | i've heard that, and i've also heard that data corruption lies in store |
| 12:51.24 | infowolfe | i've never experienced it |
| 12:52.27 | eightyeight | i've never worked on the device while it's been building. i've always waited due to the fear of data corruption, whether or not its a real concern |
| 12:54.33 | infowolfe | when installing windows xp, do you use the slow or quick format? |
| 12:54.43 | eightyeight | quick |
| 12:54.55 | infowolfe | mmkay ;) |
| 12:55.00 | eightyeight | slow zeros the partition first, as i understand it |
| 12:58.16 | infowolfe | similarly, the initialization of the raid1 portion of the swraid10 seeks to ensure that it's got a bitwise 1:1 copy between the halves |
| 12:58.42 | eightyeight | understood |
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| 16:03.41 | eightyeight | i guess i don't understand fakeraid |
| 16:04.20 | eightyeight | when i boot into the raid utility, and tell the card to build a raid-10 array, i would expect that when i boot my operating system, it sees the array, rather than the 4 beneath it |
| 16:04.24 | eightyeight | am i missing something? |
| 16:04.38 | JoshH | just get a 3ware |
| 16:04.55 | JoshH | with a battery backed cache |
| 16:05.04 | eightyeight | love to, but i'm trying to get past the issues i'm experiencing right now |
| 16:05.25 | JoshH | fakeraid is garbage, you should always use linux software raid, or a 3ware |
| 16:05.26 | eightyeight | specifically, i'm trying to understand fakeraid, i guess |
| 16:05.45 | eightyeight | but that's part of the problem |
| 16:06.15 | eightyeight | if i tell it to build a raid 10 array, then the debian installer sees all 4 disks when passing 'dmraid=true' as a kernel option |
| 16:06.33 | fugue88 | eightyeight: From my quick read-up, it looks like the real meet of fakeraid is that the BIOS treats it as an array, so that it can boot, and that OSes that go through it (like DOS) see it as a single volume. |
| 16:06.42 | fugue88 | Wouldn't help an OS that talks to the hdd directly. |
| 16:06.51 | fugue88 | If I understand correctly. |
| 16:07.11 | fugue88 | Well, wouldn't help except maybe booting. |
| 16:07.26 | eightyeight | that's my hope. i want this system to boot. but, the bios must see it as a bootable drive, and if the controller card isn't presenting a single disk, then what? |
| 16:08.02 | eightyeight | so, i said 'create a raid 10 array' in the controller, booted, and am now building a raid 10 array with mdadm (linux software raid) |
| 16:08.13 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Skip the fake raid, and create a non-software-raiding boot area on one of the drives? |
| 16:08.40 | eightyeight | and i guess i'm hoping that when i reboot, the card will say it's raid 10, build the array from what mdadm built, and boot |
| 16:08.45 | eightyeight | wishful thinking? |
| 16:10.08 | fugue88 | Maybe. I don't think raid places markers on the disk to identify it as such, the way lvm volumes do. |
| 16:10.11 | eightyeight | because without the linux kernel building the array, i'd otherwise be screwed, which is why i'm trying to understand fakeraid |
| 16:10.38 | eightyeight | lvm will go on top of the device |
| 16:14.14 | eightyeight | so i guess the question is this: does fakeraid expect the operating system to build the array, so when you specified 'create a raid 10 array' in its utility, it knows how to build it for booting? |
| 16:14.46 | eightyeight | because when i create arrays through that utility, there's no indication that any building is actually going on |
| 16:15.03 | sinuhe | eightyeight: By fake raid, do you mean dmraid supporting a controller, like those made by Promise? |
| 16:15.44 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Or do you mean software RAID? |
| 16:15.57 | eightyeight | sinuhe: here's what i have powering 4 1 TB disks: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1127/productDetail.htm |
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| 16:16.15 | eightyeight | sinuhe: so, when i go into the raid utility, and tell it to build an array from the disks, nothing happens |
| 16:17.44 | eightyeight | further, after "creating" this array, the installer does not see one drive, as i would expect, but all 4 |
| 16:17.44 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Has Linux assigned a /dev/mapper device, or are your drives detected as regular /dev/ block devices? |
| 16:17.44 | eightyeight | sinuhe: i do have to tell the installer 'dmraid=true' as a kernel option, or it won't see the disks |
| 16:17.44 | eightyeight | sinuhe: /dev/sd[a-d] |
| 16:18.08 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Pseudo RAID devices need a kernel module to recognize the firmware assembly. Typically, they're proprietary, and need to be downloaded from the manufacturer. |
| 16:18.25 | eightyeight | sinuhe: my concern is booting right now |
| 16:18.41 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Once supported, dmraid should give you a /dev/mapper/ block device that is the equiv of a software RAID md0. |
| 16:18.46 | eightyeight | sinuhe: so, i guess i'm failing to understand fakeraid |
| 16:19.20 | sinuhe | eightyeight: If there's no support, then either make your controller act as a SATA controller, or assign each drive as a separate spanned array, and use software RAID. |
| 16:19.44 | sinuhe | eightyeight: To understand pseudo RAID, think winmodem. |
| 16:21.05 | eightyeight | sinuhe: well, i'm using software raid right now, but then that means i'm screwed when booting, as there won't be anything to build the array |
| 16:21.14 | eightyeight | unless the card can build the linux software raid array for the bios |
| 16:21.19 | sinuhe | eightyeight: It looks like yours is an older controller, which means the driver is probably not compatible with libata. |
| 16:21.30 | eightyeight | it's talking... |
| 16:21.46 | sinuhe | (There was a Linux driver shipped for SL9 and RHEL4.) |
| 16:22.01 | eightyeight | what is the driver name? |
| 16:22.25 | sinuhe | eightyeight: The link you gave me said it was by SiliconImage. I'd have to look it up to see. |
| 16:22.48 | eightyeight | no worries. thought you knew by finding it in sl9/rhel4 |
| 16:23.26 | sinuhe | eightyeight: I was just reading the link you gave me. |
| 16:24.42 | sinuhe | eightyeight: My bet is that you're out of luck. You now have an expensive SATA controller. :) |
| 16:25.54 | eightyeight | nah. it was $40 |
| 16:26.01 | eightyeight | and i didn't have any sata ports anyway |
| 16:26.37 | sjansen | eightyeight: I'm coming into the middle of the conversation, but maybe (if you can find the right driver for Linux support) you could try creating a custom initrd to get the installer working. |
| 16:27.27 | sinuhe | sjansen: The problem is a pre-libata proprietary driver. |
| 16:27.45 | eightyeight | according to a couple of reviews i have red, both the fedora and debian installers recognized it right out the gate |
| 16:28.49 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Maybe they've updated it to work with libata, then. |
| 16:31.03 | sjansen | ~lart TeX's whitespace handling |
| 16:31.03 | ibot | decapitates TeX's whitespace handling conan the destroyer style |
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| 16:31.39 | sjansen | And by that I meant the annoying macro language, not the beautiful line breaking algorithm. |
| 16:31.46 | sinuhe | eightyeight: In the end, I found dmraid to be more hastle than it was worth, and configured the controller to treat the drives separately. |
| 16:33.26 | eightyeight | i guess i should put the two previous drives back in the case |
| 16:33.39 | eightyeight | problem is, i'm out of space for drives |
| 16:38.31 | sinuhe | ? |
| 16:39.26 | eightyeight | in my case, i had to remove the two drives that had debian on them, to make room for the 4 new drives |
| 16:39.54 | eightyeight | i have some space on the bottom, but nothing to securely attach the two old drives to |
| 16:40.03 | eightyeight | i was hoping i could just use the 4 new drives, put the os there, and go |
| 16:40.20 | eightyeight | then migrate the older two drives to another box that could use them |
| 16:40.34 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Your RAID controller has SATA capability. You can either disable RAID for your controller, or assigned each drive as a spanned array, effectively turning them into separate drives that you can use with /dev/sd{a,b,c,d}. This would let you attach all four drives, without having to monkey with dmraid. |
| 16:40.53 | eightyeight | right |
| 16:41.17 | eightyeight | i've already mentioned that i'm building an array on /dev/sd[a-d] with linux software raid right now |
| 16:41.47 | eightyeight | in hopes that the controller can build the array for the bios, so the system can boot |
| 16:42.35 | sinuhe | eightyeight: If you don't isolate the drives, the psuedo-RAID part of the firmware will cause overwrite problems, which is why I mentioned it the way I did. |
| 16:43.05 | eightyeight | i don't understand what you mean 'isolate'? there is no meta-device from the controller |
| 16:43.10 | eightyeight | it doesn't exist |
| 16:43.16 | eightyeight | nothing under /dev/mapper/ |
| 16:43.37 | sinuhe | These will show up as DMA overwrite errors and will, long term, result in data loss. By isolate, I mean disabling RAID in the controller configuration, or setting up separate spanned arrays for each device. |
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| 17:30.30 | Migs | web dev job opening in Kaysville, Utah, if anyone's interested. RT @davidmalmborg Do I have any web dev friends out there that want a Job with an Agency in Kaysville, #Utah #SLC |
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| 17:39.02 | JoshH | i hate what twitter has done to us |
| 17:41.20 | Migs | What script does http://planet.utos.org to display the blogs and feeds? Just a custom one? |
| 17:47.09 | Migs | how do I get my blog on there? |
| 17:47.23 | Migs | the /add-blog link is commented out, and points to nowhere |
| 17:47.54 | Gate | Migs: whats it pay? Empahsis on design or dev? |
| 17:51.28 | Migs | I dunno. tweet davidmalmborg. |
| 17:52.00 | Migs | I knew there were some people here looking for a new job...thought I'd just pass it on. |
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| 17:54.12 | Gate | heh, I will pass on the twitter address to a dev I know who is looking for a change. |
| 17:54.25 | Gate | hates twitter so very deeply |
| 17:55.00 | sjansen | Gate: Don't hate twitter. Ignore it. |
| 17:55.48 | JoshH | "web dev job in kaysville" is so vague... |
| 17:56.21 | JoshH | that's like saying "anyone want a computer job in america" |
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| 17:56.27 | JoshH | only slightly more specific |
| 18:00.48 | Migs | Yes. |
| 18:01.02 | Migs | with an Agency, no less. Capital "A" |
| 18:01.21 | Migs | I don't plan on leaving my job for 20 years |
| 18:01.39 | Migs | I'm not one of those people who likes to move around a lot |
| 18:01.40 | Gate | CIA, NSA, FBI, TSA, ICE, ATF? Which "agency"? |
| 18:01.59 | goozbach | Gate: UTOS |
| 18:02.02 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:02.10 | Migs | Maybe he had more info, but shortened it to fit 140 characters |
| 18:03.18 | Migs | Also, I don't understand why you'd hate Twitter. You don't have to follow anyone you don't care about. I just follow people in my profession, and swap tips and resources with them. |
| 18:03.26 | Migs | quite helpful, actually |
| 18:03.35 | JoshH | that's what mailing lists and blogs are for |
| 18:03.45 | Gate | For the same reason I hate facebook and myspace. |
| 18:04.00 | JoshH | i hate fb too, but myspace is irrelevant now |
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| 18:05.04 | Gate | Ever since I started finding websites that use facebook and twitter as authentication services, they went from irrelevant in my mind to enemies. |
| 18:05.11 | Migs | Blogs are too asynchronous. Comments don't suffice as a two-way communication vehicle. And mailing lists aren't real-time, don't present or organize the information in a practical or useful form, and blow giant turkey chunks. |
| 18:05.25 | JoshH | twitter isn't what i'd consider real time |
| 18:05.51 | Migs | Technically no it's not, but it's more frequent than daily updates |
| 18:06.37 | Migs | Twitter's also improved my writing skills, by forcing me to write concisely. |
| 18:07.02 | JoshH | heh |
| 18:07.16 | sjansen | If I wanted real-time interrupts to destroy my concentration I'd hang out in IRC. |
| 18:07.40 | JoshH | for me it's not even about just being old fashioned either |
| 18:07.53 | JoshH | though it does suck to feel a need to cram in knowledge about the latest social networking gimmicks |
| 18:08.08 | jsmith | sjansen: You would? I don't believe you |
| 18:08.12 | JoshH | for one, i can't ever imagine myself using the word "tweet" |
| 18:08.22 | goozbach | I consider twitter to be IRC in a web2.0 world |
| 18:08.25 | JoshH | also, there's too much inane crap on there |
| 18:08.37 | goozbach | again IRC |
| 18:08.51 | Gate | Also, they gained my antipathy after I spent a day in court. |
| 18:08.57 | jsmith | goozbach: twitter is for *short* conversations... IRC is better for long-running diatribes |
| 18:09.07 | Migs | And harassing n00bs |
| 18:09.35 | JoshH | and as far as fb goes, people not only post inane crap, but don't pay enough attention to privacy, and destroy my opinions of them by posting ignorant political things or "liking" some ridiculous political "group " |
| 18:09.47 | Gate | It was a court session where people were having their cases for restraining orders heard, nearly half the people tried to use twitter and facebook posts as evidence in support |
| 18:10.36 | JoshH | "oh, looks like that john guy who i thought was cool thinks that obama should be overthrown and that white people should have a stash of gold ready for the reconstructions years" |
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| 18:11.27 | JoshH | i took a while to embrace blogs too, but these days they are wonderful compared to fb and twitter |
| 18:11.39 | JoshH | i still don't have my own though |
| 18:12.32 | Gate | JoshH: same here, I read a few blogs but despite being arrogant and self-centered, I am not SO much as to think people will care what I have to say. |
| 18:12.33 | Migs | same here |
| 18:12.48 | Gate | Except in IRC. |
| 18:12.57 | Migs | Like most people, I thought the word "blog" was utterly stupid, and that there was no sense in having a blog. I've since changed my mind completely. |
| 18:13.46 | Migs | Gate: I agree. My blog is mainly just for organizing my own ideas. I don't care who reads it (though it's always nice to know people ARE reading it now and then). |
| 18:13.57 | JoshH | ya, the worst thing about blogs is their name |
| 18:14.08 | Migs | I'm over the name thing, though. |
| 18:14.19 | Migs | I used to think "Google" was a stupid name, too |
| 18:14.47 | JoshH | if twitter was called "beer and bbq ribs", i might like it |
| 18:15.01 | Gate | I have considered blogging, but frankly my strongest opinions and hobbies could be declared illegal at any time, so best not to give the feds more dirt.... |
| 18:15.07 | Gate | </paranoia> |
| 18:15.15 | Migs | haha |
| 18:15.41 | JoshH | i could write some posts that i'm sure at least a couple people would find interesting, but i don't care enough to actually start one, or do any writing |
| 18:15.42 | Migs | my school actually recommends students have a blog, because we have to create a final portfolio at the end, and the blog works well as that |
| 18:15.55 | JoshH | but i don't mind reading other people's interesting/informative posts |
| 18:16.07 | JoshH | but most things i read are more like articles |
| 18:17.08 | Migs | yeah, I really couldn't give a crap what people are doing during the day or seeing their latest family photos of their kids doing the latest "cutest" thing. I just want good info on work-related topics. |
| 18:17.27 | JoshH | or hobby |
| 18:17.34 | unum | I used to read groklaw everyday |
| 18:17.36 | Gate | exactly |
| 18:17.41 | Migs | or hobby, yeah |
| 18:17.50 | Migs | for me, though, it's mostly work-related |
| 18:18.25 | Gate | I read one blog: a local guy who is deep into politics, the sport I compete in and other general topics of interest. |
| 18:18.29 | JoshH | if twitter was strictly used for read only microblogging posts designed to dispense short, pertinent information to large groups of people, that would be one thing |
| 18:18.35 | JoshH | and i commend those who use it for that purpose |
| 18:19.09 | JoshH | but when someone writes "i feel at peace with the rainbows and it's almost midnight" or whatever, i just groan |
| 18:20.25 | Migs | JoshH: The problem is even occasionally the people who dispense short, pertinent info will write pointless things no one cares about. I usually give them 3 strikes before I unfollow them. |
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| 18:21.28 | Migs | Perfect example: RT @adamclaxon I think I "get" the Monty Hall problem. I think. |
| 18:21.32 | Migs | UNFOLLOWED. |
| 18:21.37 | JoshH | examples of the perfect twitter posts would be something like "auditorium A is full, go to door B", or "the kegs will be at dave's house at 830" |
| 18:22.29 | JoshH | anything about\ someone's mood, or dinner, or thoughts on a movie or song, is bad |
| 18:25.39 | sjansen | ~hate XML comments |
| 18:25.40 | ibot | Hey sjansen, ,,|, |
| 18:31.11 | jsmith | <!-- Why would you do that? --> |
| 18:32.33 | sjansen | Because it's incredibly inconvenient that "--" inside a comment is illegal. |
| 18:34.02 | sjansen | It's like they the committee got together and discussed "what's the most subtle, frustrating way to screw anyone writing *nix documentation?"!!! |
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| 18:40.33 | goozbach | can't even escape them huh? |
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| 18:42.56 | jsmith | goozbach: CDATA |
| 19:03.47 | eightyeight | crap. missed the irc vs email vs blogs vs fb vs ... vs ... debate |
| 19:09.21 | Gate | eightyeight: you can always start it up again. |
| 19:16.22 | Migs | I'm always willing to argue about pointless stuff |
| 19:17.08 | unum | do you consider /. a blog? |
| 19:18.25 | eightyeight | Gate: ok. here's my 2¢ |
| 19:19.39 | fungus | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:20.37 | eightyeight | i like to write, so i blog. i like dinner conersations, therefore i tweet. i like to share and keep up-to-date with others, therefore i fb, i like to stay informed, therefore i rss. i like to chat, therefore i irc/im. i like to give and receive support, therefore i email |
| 19:21.29 | goozbach | eightyeight: what about delicious?!!? |
| 19:21.32 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:21.39 | eightyeight | i don't like bookmarks |
| 19:22.01 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:26.44 | sontek | I only read eightyeight's blog, the rest of the Internet is full of crap |
| 19:27.43 | goozbach | and I follow only sontek's facebook because I live through him... |
| 19:28.33 | unum | in the last few years I got to know a couple of girls who mostly lived on line |
| 19:28.37 | unum | it was really weird |
| 19:29.01 | unum | they'd talk about "best friends" who they had never met, never hung out with in person |
| 19:29.46 | eightyeight | sontek lives! |
| 19:29.54 | goozbach | you mean sontek isn't my best friend?! |
| 19:30.26 | unum | my best friend would be my wife |
| 19:30.28 | eightyeight | sontek: we all missed you. where you been? |
| 19:30.31 | unum | some day we plan to meet |
| 19:30.41 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:30.48 | goozbach | eightyeight: according to facebook he's be scuba diving all over the place! |
| 19:31.01 | goozbach | <-- extremely jealous |
| 19:31.18 | eightyeight | i know he's a python h4x0rz now |
| 19:31.46 | goozbach | I wonder if he's living out of a van yet... |
| 19:32.49 | eightyeight | well, he has to have facial hair. no respected python c0der is clean shaven |
| 19:34.12 | eightyeight | http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/tamir/archive/2008/04/28/computer-languages-and-facial-hair-take-two.aspx |
| 19:39.24 | unum | "Last time, I completely forgot about PHP by Rasmus Lerdorf. This language is rather popular and it is not because of itâs nature." |
| 19:50.49 | Gate | strokes his beard |
| 19:51.51 | Gate | Wow, I need a trim. |
| 19:52.01 | Gate | Consider that my "twitter" moment. |
| 19:54.50 | JoshH | heh |
| 20:11.15 | clsimons | Anyone use mutt here? |
| 20:11.23 | eightyeight | yes |
| 20:11.31 | clsimons | How do I mark an outgoing email message as urgent? |
| 20:11.32 | eightyeight | just finished composing an email with mutt, actually |
| 20:11.43 | eightyeight | dunno. never bothered with that |
| 20:12.43 | eightyeight | probably a header option after you've finished composing |
| 20:14.00 | eightyeight | google ftw |
| 20:14.17 | eightyeight | the best way: place "URGENT" in the subject |
| 20:14.42 | eightyeight | anything else is a non-standard, proprietary implementation that all email clients will likely not parse |
| 20:16.12 | clsimons | Ah, alright. |
| 20:16.36 | clsimons | Most users here use Outlook; I had seen that urgent messages sent in Outlook displayed in mutt's inbox with a '!' flag. |
| 20:16.38 | goozbach | clsimons: call the recipient on the phone? :) |
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| 20:17.49 | clsimons | I found one of those old emails and there seem to be two relevant headers: "Priotiy: Urgent" and "Importance: high" |
| 20:17.50 | goozbach | or run to their office waving your arms and screaming |
| 20:20.35 | eightyeight | clsimons: after composing a message, you can press 'E' to edit the headers. you could manually add those, and see what happens |
| 20:21.03 | clsimons | Alright. Yeah, I just found an old email marked urgent from someone using outlook. |
| 20:21.15 | clsimons | There seem to be two relevant headers: "Priotiy: Urgent" and "Importance: high" |
| 20:21.43 | clsimons | That seems to be what Outlook tags onto them, anyway. And I know Outlook-urgent-marks are recognized by Thunderbird and mutt. |
| 20:22.02 | clsimons | So that's what I've added. I should have thought to examine the headers |
| 20:25.44 | eightyeight | http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4021.txt |
| 20:26.41 | eightyeight | "Importance:" and "Priority:" seem to be accepted as standards |
| 20:26.57 | eightyeight | i can't find anything on "X-Priority:" however |
| 20:28.14 | clsimons | Thanks for the help. |
| 20:28.30 | eightyeight | according to this: http://wiki.mutt.org/?MuttFaq/Header, "Priority:" isn't a standard |
| 20:28.34 | eightyeight | so, who knows? :) |
| 20:29.10 | eightyeight | (last question in that faq) |
| 20:59.19 | eightyeight | it looks as though rfc 4021 is not an approved standard yet |
| 20:59.41 | eightyeight | so, "Priority:" looks to be non-standard, as does "Importance:", for an mua |
| 21:11.57 | levi | Well, it would be more correct to say that it's not a fully mature standard yet. |
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| 21:13.22 | levi | There are three maturity levels on the Internet Standards track, and rfc 4021 is at the intermediate level, which indicates that there are at least two fully-conformant implementations and it's believed to be stable and useful. |
| 21:19.07 | levi | Note that HTTP and DHCP are also examples of standards at the same level of maturity. |
| 21:20.12 | goozbach | http and dhcp aren't 'mature' yet? |
| 21:20.17 | levi | See RFC 5000 and RFC 2026 for the current list of standards and the standards process. |
| 21:24.45 | levi | http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00.html is an updated-daily version of RFC 5000/STD 1. You'll see SMTP, HTTP, HTTP, and DHCP all in the 'Draft Standards' section. |
| 21:24.57 | levi | Along with rfc 4021, of course. |
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| 21:25.54 | jsmith | levi: of course! |
| 21:26.34 | jsmith | levi: You still doing anything with RFC 2960 stuff? |
| 21:26.37 | levi | Well, SMTP is also in STD 10, but that's obsoleted by the current draft standard. |
| 21:27.54 | levi | So, people who want to pretend that Importance and Priority headers aren't standard are living in fantasy land, where everyone types emails on 80-column virtual ttys. :P |
| 21:30.10 | levi | jsmith: I don't recall that I was ever doing anything with RFC 2960. |
| 21:30.28 | jsmith | levi: Oh, I thought you were... my bad :-( |
| 21:31.35 | levi | I'm working with some new IEEE standards, but not any IETF stuff. |
| 21:32.23 | jsmith | Gotcha |
| 21:33.05 | levi | Some new 802.1 standards, even. |
| 21:33.34 | levi | For audio/video delivery over ethernet. |
| 21:35.14 | jsmith | You're gonna replace DisplayPort and HDMI with a non-patent-encumbered standard over Cat 6 cable? |
| 21:36.17 | levi | Well, I don't know about non-patent-encumbered, but that's the general idea. |
| 21:36.57 | levi | Most of the development work has been on audio so far, but we're starting to ramp up video. |
| 21:37.04 | jsmith | Cool |
| 21:37.31 | jsmith | I'm guessing it's not IP based -- just Ethernet frames, right? |
| 21:38.05 | goozbach | ethernet frames FTW! |
| 21:38.13 | levi | The big switch manufacturers have bought into it, so it's definitely going to happen. When it gets enabled and used in consumer gear is another question. |
| 21:38.18 | goozbach | everything should just go over ethernet |
| 21:39.13 | levi | There are currently two transport protocols, IEEE 1722 (av transport over ethernet) and IEEE 1733 (av transport over IP). |
| 21:40.07 | jsmith | hopes it's better implemented than TDMoIP |
| 21:40.13 | levi | IEEE 1733 is a broken standard, pushed through by Intel to meet some quarterly goal for somebody or something like that. |
| 21:43.14 | levi | It's basically a modification of RTP. I don't know too much about it, except that my coworkers that go to all the IEEE meetings gave up on it. We use 1722. |
| 21:44.09 | levi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Bridging |
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| 21:50.24 | levi | Someone's been keeping that up-to-date. |
| 21:59.46 | jsmith | levi: Holy cow... 1733 really is a hack, isn't it... RTP with the timestamps in RTCP?!? What were they smoking! |
| 22:00.25 | sjansen | Audio and video over cat 6? levi, I promise to sing your praises to my grandchildren. |
| 22:00.44 | sjansen | (They'll probably just complain and throw things, but I promise you'll be remembered.) |
| 22:02.31 | levi | sjansen: Over cat5. Lowest supported speed is 100Mbit. |
| 22:04.27 | sjansen | Now we just need to figure out how to fit an RJ45 on an earbud and we can get rid of all those annoying mini-plugs. |
| 22:04.29 | levi | You're not going to even get uncompressed 1080p video over gigabit Ethernet, though. Compressed video should be no problem. |
| 22:05.19 | sjansen | considers walking around with ethernet cable stuck in his ears as a fashion statement |
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| 22:07.46 | levi | Don't expect to see consumer gear that does this for a little while. I expect they won't appear until it's been proven out in the pro audio and automotive spheres. |
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| 22:08.12 | levi | I think they may have caught on to my proxy avoidance scheme. My connection keeps getting dropped. |
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| 22:12.27 | sjansen | Why, Donald, why?! |
| 22:12.28 | levi | Scary thought: the code I'm writing now is likely to end up in many thousands of high-end automobiles. ;) |
| 22:12.49 | goozbach | levi: autossh |
| 22:12.50 | goozbach | or serveraliveinterval |
| 22:12.52 | sjansen | sobs into his hands |
| 22:14.39 | goozbach | buhahaha!? |
| 22:15.17 | JoshH | levi: what's your scheme? |
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| 23:14.58 | rsimpkins | I've replaced all the cat5 in our datacenter with 2" steel cables. You can't walk around any more, but no one can exceed the bend radius any more without using a forklift. |
| 23:15.37 | Reilithion | Way to take network data integrity seriously, rsimpkins. *thumbsup* |
| 23:16.22 | rsimpkins | Reilithion: And we are already rated for 1tbps. Double bonus. |
| 23:16.49 | Reilithion | lol |
| 23:18.14 | rsimpkins | HP is banking on photonics everywhere, but I think the steel cables are more elegant. |
| 23:18.43 | rsimpkins | Moving bits by light is sooo 1945. |
| 23:19.23 | Reilithion | Yeah, and you can't use those puny little fibers to hold up a bridge. |
| 23:19.41 | Reilithion | Nothing like making your hardware multitask for you. ^_^ |
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| 23:33.55 | Reilithion | Does the IETF endorse IP over Suspension Bridge yet? Is there an RFC? |
| 23:42.29 | fungus | Not yet, but there's one for pigeons. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html |