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| 08:25.39 | infowolfe | http://deadspin.com/5552627/mentos+and+coke-car-propels-us-into-the-future |
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| 14:07.23 | bonez2046 | where could I find database help? I want to set up a contact management database.. not sure whether to use mysql or something else.. |
| 14:07.59 | eightyeight | if you use mysql, you don't care about data integrity |
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| 14:08.31 | bonez2046 | eightyeight: wait, did I say mysql, I am sure I meant to type postgresql.. yes yes.. I mistyped it |
| 14:08.53 | fugue88 | Agree with eightyeight, and add you also wouldn't care about kittens. |
| 14:09.41 | fugue88 | bonez2046: I think there are people in this channel that could give you most of the help you'd need. |
| 14:11.47 | bonez2046 | in that light then, fugue88, I also have a database or an application that uses btrieve record manager, now owned by Pervasive , with lots of data I need to extract or convert over to sql. Help me learn about data integrity.. why is mysql bad at maintaining such and postgresql is not? |
| 14:14.46 | eightyeight | bonez2046: postgresql has a stricter acid compliance and more rigorous approach to robustness than mysql |
| 14:16.12 | eightyeight | bonez2046: mysql usually relies on innodb engine, while postgres usually leans towards falcon or cluster engines. innodb is not fully acid compliant, while the latter two are |
| 14:16.20 | fugue88 | MySQL has a backend called InnoDB (I think, and maybe it doesn't anymore) which has good ACID characteristics, but it's not the default, you have to explicitly request it at table creation. |
| 14:16.44 | eightyeight | as such, mysql usually gets a bad rap for data integrity |
| 14:16.45 | fugue88 | I thought it was MyISAM that wasn't compliant. |
| 14:17.04 | fugue88 | Nevertheless, pg is far better, in more ways than just ACID. |
| 14:17.06 | eightyeight | fugue88: i think innodb doesn't adhere to the durability aspect of acid |
| 14:17.13 | fugue88 | Hmm, curious. |
| 14:18.04 | fugue88 | bonez2046: Nevertheless, MySQL's approach has always favored speed over integrity, and PostgreSQL's favors integrity over speed. |
| 14:18.18 | fugue88 | But PostgreSQL has sped up significantly in the last two years or so. |
| 14:18.32 | fugue88 | I'd say it gives even MyISAM back-ends a good run for their money. |
| 14:18.50 | eightyeight | yeah. the latest benchmarks show that it's practically sixes in terms of speed |
| 14:19.26 | fugue88 | PG also comes with lots of other cool features. It has more constraints that are expressable, good trigger, query-rewrite rules, stored procedures, &c. |
| 14:19.55 | bonez2046 | well, I'll get clued in to PG then.. data intregrity is far more important for my needs |
| 14:21.18 | eightyeight | also, i've found tha mysql can't handle massive tables |
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| 14:21.18 | bonez2046 | I don't have massive needs... |
| 14:21.18 | eightyeight | i'm talking in the neighborhood of millions of rows with one thousand columns, or so |
| 14:21.18 | jmc1 | any mormons here? |
| 14:21.21 | eightyeight | pgsql kept up without blinking. mysql would crash. every time |
| 14:21.39 | eightyeight | but, that was 3 years ago. i haven't tested that sort of robustness since |
| 14:22.57 | eightyeight | i've kept the rule of thumb that mysql is good for a blog or wiki. pgsql is more suited for larger, more demanding apps |
| 14:23.17 | eightyeight | anyway |
| 14:23.24 | eightyeight | jmc1: yes. there are many here. why? |
| 14:24.33 | jmc1 | just wondering i am mormon also |
| 14:24.44 | jmc1 | 88 brother |
| 14:25.24 | fugue88 | That's "Brother 88" to you! :) |
| 14:25.24 | ^Migs^ | Mormons are awesome. |
| 14:25.43 | fugue88 | People are too. |
| 14:25.46 | fugue88 | Some of them. |
| 14:25.52 | ^Migs^ | Mormons are more awesome than people |
| 14:26.03 | fugue88 | haha |
| 14:26.07 | fugue88 | :D |
| 14:26.43 | ^Migs^ | jmc1: Why do you want to know if there are Mormons here? |
| 14:27.33 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: 08:24 < jmc1> just wondering i am mormon also |
| 14:28.34 | jmc1 | does anyone have acess to the LDS database? |
| 14:29.13 | eightyeight | what's 'the LDS database'? |
| 14:29.27 | jmc1 | latter day saints |
| 14:29.34 | jmc1 | mormon sect |
| 14:31.22 | jmc1 | headquartered in utah |
| 14:32.58 | eightyeight | i didn't ask what 'lds' was. i asked what the 'lds database' is |
| 14:33.25 | fugue88 | I thought my mormon sect church was hq'd in Idaho... |
| 14:33.50 | jmc1 | its their database... |
| 14:34.04 | jmc1 | every institution has a database |
| 14:34.10 | eightyeight | they only have one? what's in it? |
| 14:34.17 | jmc1 | the world is institutionalized |
| 14:34.24 | fugue88 | NWO FTW |
| 14:34.38 | jmc1 | members info |
| 14:34.48 | jmc1 | i want to see my record |
| 14:34.58 | eightyeight | you should probably ask your bishop then |
| 14:35.23 | jmc1 | i also want to see other peoples records |
| 14:35.31 | eightyeight | you should probably ask your bishop then |
| 14:35.51 | jmc1 | yeah yeah |
| 14:35.58 | fugue88 | Or your clerk. |
| 14:36.22 | jmc1 | its a touchy situation |
| 14:36.36 | jmc1 | i havent been in a long time |
| 14:36.57 | fugue88 | So? Just go! |
| 14:37.35 | eightyeight | why do you want members info? |
| 14:37.44 | fugue88 | Sorry if I'm being insensitive here... |
| 14:37.58 | jmc1 | to see my status |
| 14:38.10 | jmc1 | they havent came by |
| 14:38.14 | eightyeight | why do you want other members info? |
| 14:38.19 | jmc1 | so im wondering if im excommunicated |
| 14:38.25 | jmc1 | if so i want my trial |
| 14:38.45 | eightyeight | you only get excommunicated if you violate some specific rules of the church |
| 14:39.02 | eightyeight | you don't get excommunicated by just not attending |
| 14:39.06 | jmc1 | such as speaking out against any part of it |
| 14:39.18 | jmc1 | which i have done |
| 14:39.33 | jmc1 | also marrying another mormon on my own authority |
| 14:39.45 | eightyeight | you would receive a letter, if their records of your address are accurate, about your name being removed |
| 14:39.55 | jmc1 | i see |
| 14:40.01 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Would his name be removed? |
| 14:40.15 | eightyeight | fugue88: isn't that what excommunication does? |
| 14:40.31 | fugue88 | Not sure. I know for some things they keep they record, but add a note to it. |
| 14:40.32 | eightyeight | you're removed from the fellowship of the church |
| 14:40.42 | eightyeight | *shrug* |
| 14:40.54 | eightyeight | jmc1: you should probably talk to your bishop |
| 14:41.01 | fugue88 | jmc1: Agreed. |
| 14:41.26 | eightyeight | jmc1: so, are you looking about going back? |
| 14:41.30 | jmc1 | i want to see if i still have aaronic ph |
| 14:42.01 | jmc1 | maybe if i can have my wife back |
| 14:42.09 | jmc1 | still a restraining order |
| 14:42.45 | eightyeight | well, the bishop can't do much with that. you'll have to talk with the judge about the restraining order |
| 14:43.00 | ^Migs^ | trust me, you'll know if you've been executed |
| 14:43.12 | jmc1 | lol exeuted |
| 14:43.16 | ^Migs^ | er, excommunicated |
| 14:43.19 | eightyeight | executed and excommunicated aren't exactly the same thing |
| 14:43.27 | ^Migs^ | :) |
| 14:43.32 | jmc1 | well i have to talk to her but thats against the rules |
| 14:43.50 | jmc1 | still a few years on it before i can contact her again |
| 14:43.52 | ^Migs^ | excommunications happen after the individual is brought before a church disciplinary council |
| 14:43.54 | eightyeight | jmc1: you have to talk with her about going back to church? is she going to the same ward? |
| 14:44.11 | jmc1 | no she is from california im from missouri |
| 14:44.28 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: my understanding is you don't have to attend the council to be excommunicated |
| 14:44.38 | jmc1 | technically you do |
| 14:44.45 | eightyeight | jmc1: so why talk with her about going back? |
| 14:44.47 | jmc1 | u cant be excommunicated without a trial |
| 14:44.50 | ^Migs^ | I suppose if you're a no-show, that could be the case |
| 14:45.00 | ^Migs^ | it isn't a legal proceeding |
| 14:45.01 | jmc1 | thats what i want to see |
| 14:45.12 | jmc1 | it is a legal proceeding |
| 14:45.20 | ^Migs^ | uh, if you weren't summoned to a church disciplinary council, then you're not excommunicated |
| 14:45.27 | eightyeight | jmc1: no, i don't think so. if you've become homosexual, and the church holds a council, and you don't attend, i'm confident you'll still be excommunicated |
| 14:45.28 | ^Migs^ | No it's not |
| 14:45.42 | jmc1 | but they might have just skip the summons and saifdd i was a no show |
| 14:45.46 | fugue88 | jmc1: I think you should ask your bishop in any case. |
| 14:45.46 | ^Migs^ | There's nothing legally-grounded about religions. They have their own tenets and practices. |
| 14:45.48 | eightyeight | it's not a legal proceeding. there's nothing legal about your status with the church |
| 14:46.05 | jmc1 | mormons are supposed to be a theocracy |
| 14:46.10 | ^Migs^ | lol |
| 14:46.17 | eightyeight | anyway, i agree with fugue88. see your bishop. i'm not him |
| 14:46.19 | jmc1 | and they still run that way to the extent the law allows |
| 14:46.22 | ^Migs^ | How long were you a Mormon? |
| 14:46.32 | jmc1 | since 21 |
| 14:46.35 | jmc1 | im 27 |
| 14:46.42 | eightyeight | jmc1: mormons obey the law. that doesn't mean being a member is a legal binding contract. |
| 14:46.48 | ^Migs^ | You seem rather clueless about how the church functions, that's why I'm asking. Conspiracy theories and all that. |
| 14:47.01 | jmc1 | what are you talking about |
| 14:47.03 | infowolfe | omg, he's a scientologist! |
| 14:47.06 | ^Migs^ | I also fail to see why you want to know any of this |
| 14:47.20 | jmc1 | conspiracy theory |
| 14:47.22 | infowolfe | </sarcasm> |
| 14:47.27 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: really? he has already told you |
| 14:47.30 | ^Migs^ | how would whether you're a member or not affect your situation in any way? |
| 14:47.50 | eightyeight | ~lart ^Migs^ |
| 14:47.50 | ibot | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, ^Migs^, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 14:47.58 | ^Migs^ | did I miss something? |
| 14:48.02 | eightyeight | yes. you did |
| 14:48.09 | eightyeight | a lot |
| 14:48.27 | ^Migs^ | That's strange, because normally nothing gets past me |
| 14:48.32 | ^Migs^ | NOTHING. |
| 14:48.48 | fugue88 | shoots a bullet, which whizzes right past ^Migs^ |
| 14:48.56 | ^Migs^ | Exactly. |
| 14:49.00 | ^Migs^ | er |
| 14:49.15 | ^Migs^ | k, I'm going back to work |
| 14:49.54 | jmc1 | look i was very outspoken |
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| 16:21.59 | *** topic/#utah is logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2010 Call for Papers - http://ping.fm/HEx4C | congrats to Jared Smith(jsmith) the new Fedora Project Leader | ssh-keygen -R <offending_host> |
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| 17:14.27 | Gate | TodPunk: I just dropped you an email with the contact info I was given |
| 17:37.32 | TodPunk | Gate: got it. It's good to go. Thanks again. |
| 18:00.34 | Gate | No problem, hope it works out |
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| 18:34.40 | ^Migs^ | hahahahaha. mildly nsfw: http://www.dougweb.org/images/blog/abc.swf |
| 18:48.26 | eightyeight | rsimpkins: you better take care of tgelter |
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| 19:02.54 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 19:02.54 | ibot | strangles elg with a doohicky mouse cord |
| 19:03.04 | eightyeight | so, it looks like a nas isn't what i'm going for |
| 19:03.30 | eightyeight | instead, i found a 4-port sata 2 pci card for $50 that will do raid 0/1/5/6/10/jbod |
| 19:03.56 | eightyeight | i have a computer that will power it just fine. with 3 1tb drives at $70, i'm only out $250 |
| 19:04.13 | eightyeight | so i think that's the route to go |
| 19:06.15 | eightyeight | hmm, actually, it looks like only 0/1/5/10/jbod. no raid 6. meh. i just want the raid 10. worst case, raid 5 |
| 19:08.57 | fungus | eightyeight, combine that with FreeNAS and you are GTG |
| 19:13.19 | emcnabb | is in the mood to heckle someone |
| 19:13.23 | emcnabb | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 19:13.23 | ibot | executes killall -KILL Jayce^ |
| 19:13.47 | emcnabb | ~lart fozzmoo |
| 19:13.47 | ibot | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on fozzmoo |
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| 19:17.37 | elg | ~lart emcnabb |
| 19:17.37 | ibot | smacks emcnabb up side the head with a clue-by-4 |
| 19:17.41 | TodPunk | eightyeight: I'm 90% sure that card isn't doing much of that processing on-board. Just as an FYI |
| 19:18.12 | emcnabb | elg, thanks, I was starting to get a little drowsy |
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| 19:42.05 | eightyeight | fungus: ah yes. freenas ftw |
| 19:42.13 | eightyeight | TodPunk: and that's why i'm only spending $50 |
| 19:42.31 | eightyeight | for the raid card, that is |
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| 23:28.24 | *** topic/#utah is logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2010 Call for Papers - http://ping.fm/HEx4C | congrats to Jared Smith(jsmith) the new Fedora Project Leader | ssh-keygen -R <offending_host> |
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| 23:50.20 | ^Migs^ | if I'm using APA 6th for a bibliography, and one of my titles of a journal article has Roman numerals, do I capitalize the numerals or not? |
| 23:50.32 | ^Migs^ | I can't find an answer in the APA manual |
| 23:51.26 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Yes, capitalize the Roman numerals |