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| 00:48.37 | Reilithion | So, what's the way of the future in build systems and build tools? Let's hear some opinions from the peanut gallery. |
| 00:54.37 | Reilithion | Are make and gnu make going the way of punch cards and PL/1? Or will people be making new projects with make for generations to come? |
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| 03:24.50 | TodPunk | Reilithion: I like bake files, personally, if I have to have some sort of tool I use by hand. I'm a fan of IDEs and letting them take on that headache, though. |
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| 05:17.33 | Reilithion | Wow. That was some discussion. |
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| 12:20.53 | Migs | I like IDEs, too, but there'll always be value to make |
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| 12:58.25 | Reilithion | Migs: Why? |
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| 14:48.43 | bonez2046 | I recently ran 'update-manager' on my Ubuntu 10.04 system .. and everything seemed to work fine, until yesterday after I ran another update and several Firefox components were updated. After that update now, I have trouble on the Z-axis. If I click on a page in Firefox which launches a new child window, I have to Alt-Tab to find the launched window. Normally it launches the new child and places that window at the top of the Z-axi |
| 14:49.37 | fugue88 | bonez2046: z-axis as in window stack, not as in mouse controls? |
| 14:49.56 | bonez2046 | As well, if I have two programs, say Firefox and irssi running, I can Alt-Tab to shift attention from irssi to Firefox but I have to manually CLOSE the irssi terminal to see Firefox.. something is not clearing and maintaining all windows respecting the Z-axis |
| 14:50.07 | bonez2046 | z-axis in window stack, indeed.. |
| 14:50.28 | fugue88 | bonez2046: I have some updates pending, I'll have to see if the same happens to me too. |
| 14:50.31 | bonez2046 | I can mouse on things though too, and that mousing action doesn't correctly restack windows on the z-axis |
| 14:50.41 | bonez2046 | frustrating.. |
| 14:50.47 | fugue88 | Sounds like. |
| 14:51.11 | bonez2046 | I was thinking it was firefox but it happens with all apps... |
| 14:51.49 | bonez2046 | yeah, let me know if you experience the same thing |
| 14:52.36 | bonez2046 | are you running 10.04 as well, fugue88 ? |
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| 14:52.55 | fugue88 | bonez2046: I am. |
| 14:53.12 | fugue88 | Standard gnome desktop. |
| 14:53.25 | bonez2046 | hmmm I invoked 'update-manager -d' out o the blue last night and notice 10.10 is available now |
| 14:53.31 | bonez2046 | right mine is gnome too |
| 14:53.47 | fugue88 | bonez2046: 10.10 would be alpha2 right now, I think. |
| 14:54.04 | bonez2046 | yeah, I am sticking just with 10.04 for the time being |
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| 15:45.24 | ^Migs^ | http://beats.org/~zihp/images/1277747611.jpg |
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| 15:50.41 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 15:50.42 | ibot | plops mrpull into a giant vat of herring |
| 15:57.14 | BLZbubba | whats up |
| 15:58.28 | sjansen | Drop tile ceiling. Fluorescent lighting. Fire sprinklers. Air vents. |
| 16:03.53 | sinuhe | sky |
| 16:04.25 | fugue88 | sinuhe: You've got me beat. |
| 16:04.56 | sinuhe | fugue88: You give up too easy. |
| 16:05.33 | fugue88 | I give up. |
| 16:05.34 | fugue88 | :) |
| 16:05.49 | sinuhe | ~lart fugue88 |
| 16:05.49 | ibot | takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down fugue88's throat until fugue88 puts on 150lbs |
| 16:06.01 | sinuhe | Wow. |
| 16:06.07 | fugue88 | sinuhe: Thanks! I love KKs! |
| 16:06.12 | sinuhe | That was extreme. |
| 16:06.17 | fugue88 | I'm underweight anyway. |
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| 17:23.59 | bbeattie | so my 1st gen iphone finally went our.. For those that have used android, I'm wondering about getting that rather than the iphone 4. The phone is used mainly for podcast listening, music, ssh, and of course useless games. The iphone 4 has 720p 30fps video which sounds nice, comments on which is better for a geek? |
| 17:24.35 | bbeattie | oh, forgot web and gps, probably those are used more than anything |
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| 17:32.43 | levi | The iphone 4 camera and video are top-notch. I just watched a short film on YouTube about a Pikes Peak racer that was shot on iphone 4s, and I've seen a few photos. |
| 17:34.20 | levi | I prefer the polish and curation of the apps in the store from Apple over the free-for-all and rough edges of Android, but you get more techie gadget hackability with Android if you're into that. |
| 17:35.45 | Reilithion | This coming from a guy who has Linux on his netbook? |
| 17:36.06 | Reilithion | I'm shocked. |
| 17:37.19 | levi | One can use and appreciate Linux without requiring that everything in life be totally open. |
| 17:41.06 | Reilithion | Ah, well. Nobody's perfect. |
| 17:42.04 | bbeattie | Does android do postcasting? |
| 17:42.24 | bbeattie | Or how does it do music compared to itunes? (I've never used an android) |
| 17:42.44 | levi | What's postcasting? |
| 17:42.58 | levi | A generic term for podcasting? |
| 17:43.00 | bbeattie | .. I also just called apple, no iphone 4's in stock, it's a waiting list so the fact that I need a phone before this battery dies might make me need to get an android |
| 17:43.25 | bbeattie | subscribing to music feeds that download weekly (or however they're updated) feeds for audio |
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| 17:44.03 | bbeattie | I have quite a few "podcasts" I listen to so having something that supports downloading and keeping the unlistened podcasts is a huge plus |
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| 17:44.38 | bbeattie | ... what is the "best" android? and do all androids work on at&t? |
| 17:44.42 | levi | I don't really know, but I can't imagine that there's not a way to do it. |
| 17:45.18 | bbeattie | does android have something like itunes? |
| 17:46.00 | unum | no not all androids work on at&t |
| 17:46.13 | unum | verizon uses a different technology so their stuff can't transfer |
| 17:46.15 | Reilithion | It's taking all my willpower not to provide a letmegooglethatforyou link. |
| 17:46.18 | levi | I think at&t is currently the most limited for android phones. |
| 17:46.25 | unum | ya |
| 17:46.46 | unum | atleast they don't offer them as part of a contract |
| 17:46.54 | unum | it may just be a matter of buying one that takes a sim card |
| 17:46.55 | levi | Apparently they have the Motorola Backflip and the HTC Aria, and I don't knwo anything about either of them. |
| 17:46.57 | bbeattie | ... ;) I'm googling, no worries, |
| 17:47.13 | bbeattie | I like personal comments for stuff too |
| 17:47.14 | sjansen | Give me Linux or give me death! |
| 17:47.16 | levi | http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-sales/promotion/androidComingSoon.jsp |
| 17:47.25 | unum | my drop has the amazon mp3 store |
| 17:47.28 | unum | which I've never used |
| 17:47.33 | unum | nor have I ever used itunes |
| 17:47.40 | unum | s/drop/droid |
| 17:47.46 | Reilithion | amen, sjansen |
| 17:48.14 | sjansen | My laptop runs Linux. My desktop runs Linux. My phone runs Linux. My Squeezeboxen run Linux. |
| 17:48.29 | Reilithion | Ask not what your distro can do for you, but what you can do for your distro! |
| 17:48.45 | sjansen | My toothbrush would run Linux if it had a more sophisticated chipset. |
| 17:49.00 | Reilithion | I'm still working on the toaster problem. |
| 17:49.48 | sjansen | bbeattie: If you're escaping the siren song of the iPhone, why stay stranded on AT&T island? |
| 17:50.32 | bbeattie | sjansen: family and gf are all using at&t... I'm actually on a family plan with my sister to save $$, so I'm kind of tied to AT&T. |
| 17:50.38 | levi | If you want an Android phone on AT&T now, you probably want the Aria. |
| 17:51.37 | bbeattie | levi: is iphone 4 better than the aria? .. I'm guessing there are better androids, just not on at&t |
| 17:52.09 | levi | Yeah, there are much better androids, but the only other android on AT&T is much worse. |
| 17:52.15 | ^Migs^ | ~linux sjansen |
| 17:52.46 | levi | And the iphone 4 would be much better than the Aria IMHO, but you'd have to wait for it to be in stock. |
| 17:53.59 | bbeattie | k.. *thinking...* |
| 17:54.23 | levi | Samsung Captivate is supposed to come out for AT&T later in the summer. |
| 17:55.02 | levi | Dell Aero, too. |
| 17:57.08 | Reilithion | So, here's my situation: Having tried Gentoo, there are basically 2 things I really like about it. 1. If I follow the unstable branch, I get very recent versions of a wide selection of software. 2. It is, indeed, highly configurable. The cost in time and effort devoted to troubleshooting, though, is really outweighing the benefits. Can anyone offer me a recommendation about where to go from here? Perhaps Arch? |
| 17:58.08 | levi | The Captivate looks like it could be a top-notch Android, but it's not available just yet. |
| 17:58.54 | levi | Should be very soon, since they did an official launch event yesterday. |
| 18:01.28 | levi | Samsung did, that is. |
| 18:01.32 | bbeattie | hmm |
| 18:02.22 | levi | AT&T announced in the middle of June that it would be coming to their network 'in the coming months'. |
| 18:02.40 | levi | Has very similar hardware capabilities to iPhone 4. |
| 18:03.17 | fugue88 | Reilithion: My brother-in-law showed me Arch on his sys, and I thought the startup script handling was pretty lame compared to Gentoo. |
| 18:03.33 | fugue88 | Reilithion: Other than that, I can't really say anything else about Arch. |
| 18:03.56 | bbeattie | at&t is showing the dell aero, is that or the aria newer/better? |
| 18:04.06 | Reilithion | fugue88: Thanks. I appreciate the input. |
| 18:04.35 | levi | bbeattie: It's not available from them yet. |
| 18:07.18 | levi | The Aero is still Android 1.5 and doesn't sound terribly impressive. |
| 18:07.21 | sjansen | Reilithion: I've had co-workers that enjoyed Arch. None has decided to stay with it though. Don't know why. |
| 18:08.57 | Reilithion | sjansen: Do you know what they switched to, or ended up staying with? |
| 18:09.35 | sjansen | Fedora in one case. |
| 18:09.42 | sjansen | Probably Ubuntu in another. |
| 18:09.48 | sjansen | Dunno about the third. |
| 18:10.46 | sjansen | If you're looking for cutting edge with slightly less bleeding, I recommend Fedora. |
| 18:10.54 | levi | Hmm, you can apparently get a Nexus One that'll run on AT&T's 3G network, but it'll cost you $529. |
| 18:11.30 | levi | That's probably the best of what's currently available. |
| 18:12.51 | Reilithion | sjansen: Thanks for the advice. |
| 18:12.56 | levi | You'd have to look at the specs on the Aria vs. Aero to see which would be better for you. Of course, only Aria is available now. |
| 18:14.15 | goozbach | I tried arch, and *RAN* back to fedora |
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| 18:18.32 | bbeattie | levi: jailbroken nexus one? |
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| 19:17.26 | goozbach | anyone know Lee Henson? |
| 19:18.23 | Reilithion | goozbach: No, but hum a few bars, and I'll see if I can fake it. |
| 19:18.50 | goozbach | Reilithion: ha ha |
| 19:19.06 | goozbach | He's my instructor on this agile tool today |
| 19:29.27 | levi | bbeattie: You buy them from Google without a contract. |
| 19:31.23 | bbeattie | levi: that makes sense.. I'm really torn, iphone 4 has good specs, but I hate itunes and how the iphone limits you from doing even basic useful things (charging $$ for a ringtone) and the IM apps for iphone are useless, I like androids widget and interop. |
| 19:32.54 | bbeattie | and iphone not having flash is a huge con |
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| 19:43.11 | ljenkins | The other big providers need to take a cue from t-mo (and the rest of the world) and give you a lower price for service if you BYO phone |
| 19:43.22 | ljenkins | thats my biggest problem with buying unlocked phones |
| 19:43.34 | levi | bbeattie: If you don't mind spending major cash, the Nexus One would probably be good. Otherwise I'd wait for the Samsung Captivate. Though you'll probably find things to be annoyed at there, too. :) |
| 19:45.22 | levi | ljenkins: I don't think they really want to encourage BYO phone, since subsidized phone upgrades give them the opportunity to lock you in for longer. |
| 19:46.48 | ljenkins | levi: I agree 100%. If they didn't have a multi-year contract to loom over customer's heads they might have to rely upon quality service and competitive prices to keep customers |
| 19:48.07 | sjansen | http://roflrazzi.com/2010/06/30/funny-celebrity-videos-sarah-michelle-gellar-buffy-robert-pattinson-twilight-eclipse/ |
| 19:49.29 | bbeattie | iphone 4 is on back order, called at&t and they're saying it could be a month or more to get one, samsung captive will be out by then, aria doesn't look aweful for specs, nexus one would be good if I could swallow the cost |
| 19:50.49 | BLZbubba | my neighbor here in the next cube just got a palm pre and loves it |
| 19:51.06 | unum | nice video |
| 19:51.33 | BLZbubba | about as close to a linux-distro-on-a-phone as you can get right now i think |
| 19:52.55 | sjansen | likes his Pre too |
| 19:53.09 | unum | there was one that allowed you to install a full distro |
| 19:53.14 | unum | mojo or something |
| 19:53.30 | sjansen | moko |
| 19:53.34 | BLZbubba | http://tinfoiler.com/ |
| 19:53.36 | sjansen | The hardware was crap. |
| 19:53.42 | unum | that's right |
| 20:13.17 | bbeattie | levi: appears the nexus one only uses edge on at&t |
| 20:14.00 | levi | bbeattie: Where are you seeing that? |
| 20:14.56 | levi | The original Nexus One for T-mobile would only use EDGE on AT&T. There's now an AT&T-specific model. |
| 20:14.58 | bbeattie | nvm, I see an update, it chaged may 16th to work with 3g |
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| 20:26.25 | ^Migs^ | http://i.imgur.com/FhD69.jpg |
| 20:37.19 | ^Migs^ | how do you delete a bunch of content in directories without deleting the directories? |
| 20:37.41 | sjansen | find foo/ -type f -delete |
| 20:38.22 | sjansen | Of course you'll probably want to tweak the tests. Perhaps limit depth. Maybe delete symlinks also. |
| 20:38.53 | ^Migs^ | cool, thanks |
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| 21:30.01 | sjansen | Just three hours until Knuth rocks our world! |
| 21:30.33 | sjansen | Who else is so excited they can't sit, think, or control their bladder? |
| 21:31.36 | unum | oh is that today? |
| 21:31.49 | fugue88 | Infidel! |
| 21:31.53 | unum | I bet he's just going to say he update a few pages in his book :p |
| 21:34.48 | JoshH | he's waiting 3 more hours? what a prick! |
| 21:35.38 | sjansen | ~punish JoshH |
| 21:35.39 | ibot | ACTION forces JoshH to install and use Windows |
| 21:36.04 | unum | guess I'll read about it on /. tomorrow |
| 21:36.17 | JoshH | hey, he's doing it from the sir francis drake hotel in SF... i was just there |
| 21:37.10 | Gate | What is Knuth doing today? |
| 21:37.49 | unum | playing a big prank on sjansen |
| 21:38.23 | Gate | I see. |
| 21:39.53 | JoshH | i wonder if foxnews will be covering it live |
| 21:41.43 | sjansen | ~heathen unum |
| 21:42.16 | sjansen | declares unum a heathen, worth of scorn and ridicule |
| 21:53.00 | rsimpkin1 | RIP Move Networks. |
| 21:57.06 | sjansen | I'm not sure whether to be sad for the employees, or happy that the technology will hopefully die. |
| 21:57.22 | sjansen | I'm never had a good experience with anything Move-based. |
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| 21:58.46 | JoshH | i heard their abc video was good looking, but that's about it |
| 22:02.29 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVy8Dr_SxWg |
| 22:08.17 | sjansen | "From the small town of St. George, these brothers have emerged as a beacon upon a hill and plan on taking their music to the top." -- http://www.shallowday.com/about.html |
| 22:08.31 | sjansen | Ugh. :-( |
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| 22:08.37 | sjansen | Like, gag me with a spoon! |
| 22:11.14 | JoshH | wow |
| 22:12.16 | JoshH | i'm sure st george is so proud to have them represent |
| 22:14.56 | ^Migs^ | um |
| 22:15.30 | ^Migs^ | For the record, I just found the video mildly amusing, enough so to casually share. I'm not sure about this beacon on a hill stuff. |
| 22:16.22 | JoshH | who in their right mind willingly compares themselves to coldplay? |
| 22:16.38 | JoshH | and talks about st george actually having a local scene |
| 22:16.42 | tensai | hmm. never heard of Move Networks. |
| 22:17.28 | tensai | sjansen: what was so horrible about their technology? |
| 22:19.01 | ^Migs^ | okay seriously, how much would you pay for a 1/4" to 1/8" stereo adapter like this? http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21SCVXHW9ML._SL500_AA300_.jpg |
| 22:20.09 | fugue88 | $5, max, if I needed it urgently and had to by one from a local store. |
| 22:20.47 | sjansen | tensai: Didn't work at all on my Linux systems. Worked like crap on my mother's Windows laptop. |
| 22:21.36 | fugue88 | ^Migs^: But in less extreme circumstances, maybe ~$1. |
| 22:22.46 | ^Migs^ | that much? |
| 22:23.05 | ^Migs^ | I was thinking more like 25 cents. I must be a cheapskate. |
| 22:23.44 | ^Migs^ | I was getting kind of flustered by seeing it as $2 on all the online stores |
| 22:24.59 | fugue88 | ^Migs^: Maybe I'm overly accustomed to RadioShack prices, when I've needed such things in emergencies. |
| 22:25.39 | fugue88 | I've had several of those... |
| 22:33.27 | tensai | sjansen: ah, I see it was plugin based. that's a dangerous road to travel. especially if it's crap. |
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| 22:33.42 | levi | Nothing cost 25 cents anymore. |
| 22:33.52 | unum | ya |
| 22:34.02 | unum | I think migs is just old |
| 22:34.04 | levi | $2 sounds like what you'd see it advertised for. |
| 22:34.21 | sjansen | levi: Not true. Penny candy costs 25 cents these days. |
| 22:34.30 | ^Migs^ | yeah, what kind of nonsense is that? |
| 22:34.41 | unum | so like one sour patch kid? |
| 22:34.46 | unum | ya you might be right |
| 22:35.32 | levi | Anyway, monoprice.com will undoubtedly have it cheaper than $2. |
| 22:35.46 | unum | at my old job we sold used cables and adapter for $0.50 |
| 22:36.30 | levi | In fact, they have it for 72 cents. |
| 22:37.19 | ^Migs^ | ah, found one on Amazon for 29 cents! |
| 22:37.34 | ^Migs^ | I forgot about monoprice, though |
| 22:38.18 | levi | Never forget about monoprice. It's awesome. |
| 22:38.59 | tensai | 29 cents plus $4 shipping |
| 22:39.39 | levi | Monoprice is the place to go for cables. |
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| 22:50.13 | JoshH | the small cones from arctic circle are 25 cents |
| 22:56.51 | sjansen | Oh bother. Looks like Sarah at Google has decided to stalk me. |
| 23:08.23 | levi | Sarah at Google? |
| 23:08.52 | sjansen | Google HR |
| 23:09.16 | levi | Trying to recruit you? |
| 23:09.19 | sjansen | yup |
| 23:09.29 | levi | Must be a pain. :) |
| 23:10.22 | sjansen | I find it curious that she contact me through LinkedIn, and then 3 minutes later she sent basically the same message to my personal address. |
| 23:10.39 | sjansen | I'd ignore it, except she claims: "Your name was recommended by our engineers here at Google during an informal brainstorming session." |
| 23:11.26 | sjansen | Which I'm pretty sure is a lie. |
| 23:15.57 | tensai | ~recruit sjansen |
| 23:16.14 | levi | Heh. |
| 23:16.48 | levi | I got a ping from a Google recruiter through LinkedIn, but not to my personal email. That was a long time ago, though. |
| 23:51.38 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 23:53.43 | ljenkins | re: move networks, would explain why I couldn't ever get a sales person to call me back about buying some iptv service |
| 23:54.13 | ljenkins | though I might have my cause and effect swapped ;) |
| 23:56.23 | elg | sjansen: you know nobody at google? |
| 23:56.43 | elg | and/or not (in)famous in circles googlers might run in |
| 23:57.12 | sjansen | So far as I'm aware, you're the closest I've come to knowing someone at Google. |
| 23:57.19 | elg | why not do the interviews? I thoroughly enjoyed the process |
| 23:57.23 | sjansen | So far as I'm aware, I'm only notorious in Utah. |
| 23:57.53 | elg | and while you're at it, interview with us. :-) |
| 23:59.02 | sjansen | I'd have to schedule vacation time, and if I'm going to burn vacation time I might as well be doing vacation-y stuff. |
| 23:59.26 | elg | i'll take you to the beach or to see the sights in frisco or whatever floats your boat |
| 23:59.45 | elg | or just have you over for pizza |
