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| 16:57.25 | sjansen | ~blame emcnabb |
| 16:57.25 | ibot | ACTION blames emcnabb (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 16:58.09 | goozbach | ~uber sjansen |
| 16:58.10 | ibot | ACTION dices sjansen into cubes |
| 16:58.26 | goozbach | that's my new favourite lart |
| 16:58.38 | goozbach | or ibotisim |
| 16:58.42 | goozbach | or whatever you call it |
| 17:10.12 | sjansen | ~silence goozbach |
| 17:10.13 | ibot | ACTION shoves an apple in goozbach's mouth, shoves a spit through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting |
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| 19:02.43 | tensai | I can't help but be impressed how quick git is |
| 20:32.52 | sjansen | Yeah, git is the Jimmy John's of SCMs. |
| 20:33.34 | goozbach | I think that's a good analogy |
| 20:33.44 | goozbach | jj is crack |
| 20:33.46 | goozbach | git is crack |
| 20:33.58 | goozbach | once you start down the crack bread front you can't try anything else |
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| 20:45.11 | tensai | I tried jimmy johns. was not impressed. |
| 20:52.13 | sjansen | You must not have tried a #9 with peppers. Or a #17. |
| 20:52.41 | sjansen | JJ ain't Gandolfo's, but it is freaky fast. |
| 20:59.30 | sontek | I'm not a jimmy johns fan either |
| 20:59.38 | sontek | Especially in Utah since you can get toasters |
| 21:12.24 | TehLaser | Heh. The SCM I'm required to use takes 15 minutes to do a diff. :P |
| 21:13.12 | TehLaser | Nevermind actually shoving all the changed bits over the wires. |
| 21:16.53 | JoshH | jimmy johns is still good, even though there are technically better sandwiches out there |
| 21:16.57 | JoshH | and they are cheap |
| 21:17.09 | JoshH | i always get the #10 |
| 21:17.23 | goozbach | I always get the garg |
| 21:17.40 | unum | I go to subway and get the sweet onion chicken terryaki |
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| 21:17.49 | JoshH | subway i can't stand |
| 21:17.56 | JoshH | their toppings just seem too wilted and gross |
| 21:18.26 | JoshH | if i'm going for a truly excellent sandwich in slc, it has to be caputos |
| 21:21.45 | goozbach | amen |
| 21:21.46 | fungus | subway is acceptable for cheap and fast. |
| 21:21.51 | goozbach | I want me one of those again... |
| 21:21.54 | fungus | It's not always stale and wilted |
| 21:22.10 | fungus | notes to check out caputos |
| 21:23.53 | goozbach | fungus: super wort it |
| 21:23.55 | goozbach | worth |
| 21:23.57 | goozbach | that is |
| 21:26.41 | JoshH | oh man |
| 21:26.45 | JoshH | a caputos virgin |
| 21:26.49 | JoshH | that's just tragic |
| 21:27.05 | JoshH | their cold cut with a side cup of meatballs is a religious experience |
| 21:27.32 | JoshH | of course, that wouldn't work for fungus since he doesn't consume animal flesh |
| 21:27.47 | JoshH | but i'm sure whatever veggie sandwiches they have are good too |
| 21:27.49 | fungus | yeah, that doesn't sound so hot. do they have veggie options. |
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| 21:27.53 | JoshH | probably |
| 21:27.56 | fungus | woot |
| 21:27.59 | JoshH | it's also a really great italian market |
| 21:28.15 | JoshH | so you can get awesome olive oil and other italian goodies there |
| 21:30.01 | JoshH | fungus: haven't you seen the italian area across from pioneer park? |
| 21:30.19 | fungus | nope, i don't get downtown that much anymore. |
| 21:30.20 | goozbach | fungus: they do have veggie stuff |
| 21:30.26 | goozbach | tasty tasty veggie stuff |
| 21:30.28 | JoshH | http://caputosdeli.com/ has menu |
| 21:30.37 | fungus | cool |
| 21:41.21 | JoshH | i'm so in the wrong business |
| 21:41.30 | JoshH | http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/rent-a-white-guy/8119/ |
| 21:43.25 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/video/soccer-officially-announces-it-is-gay,17603/ |
| 21:45.53 | SunSparc | ~lart ^Migs^ |
| 21:45.53 | ibot | declares ^Migs^ a moron |
| 21:46.07 | SunSparc | :) Nothing personal |
| 21:47.23 | ^Migs^ | I'm not arguing with ibot's decision |
| 21:47.42 | goozbach | wow! |
| 21:47.49 | goozbach | I want to work as a white guy |
| 21:47.58 | goozbach | I've got handwavium coming out my pores |
| 21:55.14 | tensai | I know where I'm eating during utos. mmm. |
| 22:35.49 | eightyeight | ~gno |
| 22:36.14 | eightyeight | ibot: gno is "The Party of Gno" - http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7806/1.html |
| 22:36.15 | ibot | eightyeight: okay |
| 22:37.34 | JoshH | god i hate articles like that |
| 22:38.19 | JoshH | nobody in the real world cares what the FSF "pushes" |
| 22:39.08 | eightyeight | that's the point of the article |
| 22:39.14 | eightyeight | they're so full of fail |
| 22:40.22 | JoshH | but it's pointless to even write about, and it's sad that he actually got paid for that |
| 22:40.34 | JoshH | hopefully not very much |
| 22:42.09 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:42.13 | eightyeight | well, i see your point there |
| 22:42.43 | eightyeight | it feels good to be validated |
| 22:43.43 | JoshH | when was the last time you or someone you knew was deciding which program to install for something and you thought "hmm, this license might not be free enough to satisfy the fsf, maybe i should see what alternatives exist" |
| 22:44.24 | JoshH | or "i wonder what stallman recommends as the most free app for $purpose lately" |
| 22:45.25 | JoshH | people just install ubuntu, install the nvidia driver, install the codecs, and go on with life |
| 22:45.56 | JoshH | nobody ponders the ethical dilemma of installing something that depends on mono |
| 22:46.18 | unum | I think more people are influenced by that than you think |
| 22:46.31 | JoshH | but every now and then you see some columnist like that imagining things |
| 22:46.41 | fugue88 | I ponder |
| 22:46.51 | fugue88 | I ponder because I care. :P |
| 22:47.01 | JoshH | do you stroke your chin? |
| 22:47.09 | fugue88 | Occasionally. |
| 22:47.22 | fugue88 | But seriously, I can't say I've selected software based on GPL vs BSD style licenses, but |
| 22:47.37 | fugue88 | I have avoided BSD licensed software based on who owned it. |
| 22:47.48 | JoshH | if i could stare out across a lake for hours while taking slow pulls from a pipe like gandalfs, maybe i would |
| 22:47.55 | fugue88 | And I don't install the nvidia drivers, I use nv or nouveau. |
| 22:47.58 | fugue88 | But I'm not a gamer. |
| 22:48.04 | JoshH | for freedom issues or stabiity issues? |
| 22:48.29 | fugue88 | Well, it's the db package from sleepycat, acquired by oracle. |
| 22:48.47 | fugue88 | When Oracle acquired, off it came. I suspected that Oracle would do no good with it. |
| 22:48.50 | JoshH | i mean regarding nvidia |
| 22:49.00 | fugue88 | Ah. Lack of source code. |
| 22:49.11 | fugue88 | Who knows what they're spying on??? |
| 22:49.14 | fugue88 | j/k |
| 22:49.38 | JoshH | because you don't trust it, or don't want your kernel unsupported, or because you just want free, or don't need 3d and so don't need an "iffy" driver, or what? |
| 22:49.50 | fugue88 | Good question, answer is... |
| 22:49.59 | eightyeight | sushi |
| 22:50.19 | fugue88 | A very small amount of lack of trust, but mostly along the lines of this is my system, and I have a right to modify it if I want. |
| 22:50.27 | fugue88 | sushi's close. |
| 22:50.50 | JoshH | i'd go with taco |
| 22:51.05 | fugue88 | Right now (opinions can change, right?), I'm okay with proprietary software, *if* I have the source for it and can modify and recompile for myself. |
| 22:51.23 | fugue88 | I used to lean more towards the GNU purism. |
| 22:51.50 | JoshH | i guess people use software for different reasons |
| 22:52.00 | fugue88 | djb's software used to be proprietary, as an example, but comes with source and was free as in beer. |
| 22:52.10 | JoshH | i enjoy the freedom aspect of gnu/linux/bsd/etc, but i mostly use it because it works well and i like it |
| 22:52.29 | JoshH | and you can easily do a lot of different things with it |
| 22:52.31 | fugue88 | That is a major bonus. I believe that available source is a mjor reason. |
| 22:52.39 | fugue88 | *major, even. |
| 22:52.54 | fugue88 | I'm not sure how much GPL-style freedom affects that. |
| 22:52.59 | JoshH | to me, the fact that it's all free and open is a great bonus, but not the main reason for choosing it |
| 22:53.06 | eightyeight | i have no problem with "geeking it up" with respects to adhering towards gnu philosophies. but i also want to "get stuff done", and if that means proprietary software, so be it |
| 22:53.48 | eightyeight | as a result, i have the non-free flash plugin, mathematica, and some other non-free software installed |
| 22:53.56 | eightyeight | i'm not going to lose sleep over it |
| 22:54.15 | JoshH | i have the 64 bit flash, codecs, and nvidia driver, but that's it |
| 22:54.23 | JoshH | only because i don't need anythign else that isn't free though |
| 22:54.31 | sjansen | I used to care what the FSF said. They've become increasingly irrelevant to me as they've focused more on hating instead of working to create Free alternatives. |
| 22:54.32 | JoshH | if there was photoshop for linux, i'd have that too |
| 22:56.28 | JoshH | i guess i just think that worrying about how free the license for software is, when the code is there and it costs nothing anyway (as far as the difference between all the different open source licenses), is pointless to care too much about |
| 22:56.33 | eightyeight | the gimp is definitely no photoshop replacement, if it's going to remain 8-bit raster graphics based |
| 22:56.53 | sjansen | eightyeight: checkout GEGL |
| 22:57.04 | JoshH | i like the gimp, and i can do anything i ever need to with it, but photoshop is nicer and shinier, so i'd use that if it was available for no other reason than those |
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| 22:58.04 | unum | there are issues in licenses that people should be aware of |
| 22:58.17 | unum | and I help the FSF helps people be aware of some of those issues |
| 22:58.20 | JoshH | i think vendor lock in and similar issues with closed source software is "evil", but otherwise, i think it's silly to apply "morality" to software |
| 22:58.32 | unum | at one point apple required private changes to be sent back |
| 22:58.57 | unum | I think morality should be applied to everything |
| 22:59.08 | sjansen | It is not silly to apply morality to software. |
| 22:59.16 | JoshH | how so? |
| 22:59.19 | eightyeight | morality or ethics? i find it hard to believe that running nonfree software is "immoral" |
| 22:59.32 | eightyeight | unethical, maybe. immoral, nope |
| 22:59.36 | JoshH | does your conscience make you feel bad when you listen to an mp3 instead of an ogg? |
| 22:59.46 | unum | JoshH: yes actually |
| 22:59.52 | sjansen | One example: on many Oracle's sales guys have clearly forced customers to agree to immoral agreements. |
| 23:00.28 | unum | I'm having trouble understanding the difference between unethical and immoral |
| 23:00.42 | unum | one is a sin against god? the other against man? |
| 23:01.15 | JoshH | is that how you define morality? sins against god? |
| 23:01.26 | unum | I was asking |
| 23:01.34 | unum | I don't understand |
| 23:01.40 | unum | mostly I was asking eightyeight |
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| 23:01.47 | unum | but ya, I'd like your definition too |
| 23:01.59 | JoshH | i think ethics come into play with things like conflicts of interest or equal opportunity hiring |
| 23:02.15 | JoshH | and morality is issues you face with your conscience |
| 23:02.27 | JoshH | but i'm not religious at all, so my idea is different than yours |
| 23:02.50 | unum | it would bother my conscience if I discrimnated against someone because of their race |
| 23:02.53 | unum | it wouldn't bother yours? |
| 23:02.55 | eightyeight | i define morality as the difference between good and evil. ethics between right and wrong |
| 23:03.08 | eightyeight | mabye there's a thin line. maybe i'm splitting hairs |
| 23:03.15 | unum | eightyeight: you're splitting hairs |
| 23:03.23 | eightyeight | pedophilia is immoral. lying is unethical |
| 23:03.24 | JoshH | for example, i think it would be unethical to hire your friend for a job when a bunch of other people came and interviewed for it just because you needed to show that you interviewed people, knowing full well that you were choosing your friend |
| 23:03.27 | unum | you need to read the great divorce |
| 23:03.45 | JoshH | i think lying is immoral |
| 23:03.59 | unum | but it wouldn't bother your conscience to do that? |
| 23:04.39 | JoshH | it would, but i would still consider it an ethical issue |
| 23:04.50 | JoshH | it's an area with overlap for sure |
| 23:04.56 | JoshH | bad example i guess |
| 23:05.16 | unum | would you say immoral is more of a "hardwired" thing and ethics is more of a social thing? |
| 23:05.24 | JoshH | but i can say that god has nothing to do with my ideas of morality |
| 23:05.27 | JoshH | probably, in many cases anyway |
| 23:05.37 | JoshH | ethics are more like "rules" or "best practices for conduct" |
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| 23:06.21 | unum | I tend to see the two as interchangable |
| 23:06.33 | sjansen | I choose FLOSS for practical reasons. One of those practical reasons is not being a victim of immoral vendors. So I guess you could say I use FLOSS for moral reasons too. |
| 23:06.41 | unum | :) |
| 23:07.33 | JoshH | sjansen: same here, but i don't consider the vendors immoral, just greedy, rude, jerks, and other, less appropriate to mention things |
| 23:07.44 | sontek | I chose to use FLOSS because all the cool kids were doing it |
| 23:08.33 | JoshH | i use floss to get the spaces between my teeth clean |
| 23:10.38 | sontek | Thats also a good choice! |
| 23:13.56 | eightyeight | i just ran: yum renistll $(rpm -qa | tr '\n' ' ') |
| 23:14.10 | eightyeight | hopefully, that fixes my missings from rpm -Va. :) |
| 23:14.46 | eightyeight | ...and kernel panic. :) |
| 23:15.25 | sjansen | Ugh. Dude, at some point you're going to decide that OS and data restores should be kept separate. |
| 23:15.47 | sjansen | Kickstart for OS restores. $BACKUP_SOFTWARE for data restores. |
| 23:15.51 | sontek | haha |
| 23:15.57 | eightyeight | i don't think wrong necessarily means evil. telling my wife she looks good in that dress might be the wrong thing to say if it's untrue, but i would classify that statement as evil |
| 23:16.31 | eightyeight | sjansen: i did a full restore, but _tons_ of stuff was missing. so i started doing renistalls one at a time to fix it |
| 23:16.40 | eightyeight | took too long. so i made a shortcut |
| 23:16.43 | eightyeight | which i get to fix now |
| 23:16.58 | eightyeight | this one single restore is seriously pissing me off |
| 23:18.13 | sjansen | Re: The Party of Gno |
| 23:18.19 | sjansen | I'm glad someone is saying it. |
| 23:18.34 | sjansen | I've thought about writing a blog post or something saying the same thing. |
| 23:18.42 | fugue88 | A full restore of a less-than-full backup... |
| 23:18.45 | sjansen | But it'd be a waste of my time since no one cares what I think. |
| 23:19.16 | tensai | ~care about sjansen |
| 23:19.18 | eightyeight | fugue88: supposedly, netbackup does full backups every friday (per our schedule), but /bin/gzip is missing, and a number of other files |
| 23:19.41 | fugue88 | Odd. |
| 23:19.41 | eightyeight | but, i think i can fix this kernel panic pretty quickly |
| 23:23.29 | eightyeight | here comes 'linux resuce' |
| 23:24.33 | eightyeight | uh... |
| 23:24.37 | eightyeight | where's my filesystem? |
| 23:25.06 | fugue88 | se fue |
| 23:25.32 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 23:25.39 | eightyeight | this is just getting weirder by the minute |
| 23:26.07 | eightyeight | but, the bell has tolled. i'll deal with it tomorrow |
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