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| 03:00.48 | bonez2046 | blist online |
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| 04:07.59 | eightyeight | i see that chromium-browser is now is sid. 'bout time |
| 04:08.24 | eightyeight | notes that these are the only two lines of conversation all day |
| 04:08.39 | levi | Busy watching Lost. :) |
| 04:40.48 | bonez2046 | ;) |
| 04:40.59 | levi | Not the ending I was expecting. |
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| 04:50.53 | RyanE | Yeah, mine either. |
| 04:51.01 | RyanE | but really, what could they've resolved in that time. |
| 05:06.09 | levi | I would have liked to know more about what the island was, but it was a good wrapup for the story without actually trying to explain what the weirdness was. |
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| 12:47.50 | goozbach | saw on twitter what describes my feelings: "I'll settle for emotionally satisifing, over intelectually satisfying any day" |
| 13:00.23 | sinuhe | goozbach: Being intellectually satisified makes emotional satisifaction easier. |
| 13:19.44 | eightyeight | try explaining that to a woman |
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| 13:40.46 | tristanbob__ | here is an ad I just saw on Gizmodo, I think it is SFW... http://s0.2mdn.net/viewad/937423/philips_160x600_avatar.jpg |
| 13:48.06 | Migs | lolwut? |
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| 14:28.30 | eightyeight | is lolwut a new trend? are lolcats on the way out by lolwuts? |
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| 14:32.56 | goozbach | eightyeight: are you calling me a woman? |
| 14:38.44 | eightyeight | how does that saying go, referring to getting old? "you are how you feel". maybe it works with gender too |
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| 15:21.59 | Migs | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/05/23/2010-05-23_high_school_reunion_turns_deadly_in_queens_six_people_shot_one_dead.html |
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| 15:39.47 | redbeard2 | eightyeight: there are a lot of californians that would argue that that is true |
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| 15:49.01 | unum | I must be 70 years old then |
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| 16:53.32 | sjansen | ~Lost |
| 16:53.33 | ibot | The LOst Space Tracker. URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8036/lost_page.html |
| 16:55.02 | sjansen | ibot: No, Lost is a giant "screw you" from ABC to their viewers. |
| 16:55.03 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 16:55.35 | redbeard2 | abc still has viewers? |
| 16:57.00 | goozbach | Network television still exists!? |
| 16:57.04 | eightyeight | what is abc, aside from the first three letters of the english alphabet? |
| 16:57.16 | goozbach | american broadcast company |
| 16:59.20 | eightyeight | putty is fail |
| 16:59.43 | eightyeight | trying to insert the interrobang (used for sarcasm), and it's failing miserably |
| 17:10.02 | eightyeight | abc? gee, what is thatâ½ |
| 17:10.13 | eightyeight | there we go |
| 17:12.40 | eightyeight | it appears ⸮ is the new sarcasm mark, i guess. shows we're i've been |
| 17:17.05 | sjansen | No, that's the Irony Mark. |
| 17:17.13 | sjansen | This is the SarcMark: http://www.sarcmark.com/ |
| 17:18.09 | fungus | That's pathetic: copyrighted punctuation? WTF |
| 17:19.10 | elg | It's ironic is what it is. |
| 17:20.53 | Migs | But it's free for a limited time! |
| 17:21.16 | sjansen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark |
| 17:22.17 | eightyeight | the irony mark can be used for sarcasm |
| 17:22.28 | eightyeight | notice, i didn't say "sarcmark". :) |
| 17:23.15 | Migs | http://opensarcasm.org/ |
| 17:24.06 | eightyeight | oh, that's right. it's the upside-down bang. forgot that |
| 17:24.18 | eightyeight | not sure why i thought about the interrobang |
| 17:24.58 | eightyeight | the problem is, in many fonts, it looks like an 'i': '¡' |
| 17:25.21 | eightyeight | i think i like the irony mark better |
| 17:25.30 | eightyeight | at least it's distinguishable |
| 17:27.40 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, this is a very pressing issue that must be addressed soon¡ |
| 17:28.52 | eightyeight | you're too tense. you should get a massage⸮ |
| 17:29.42 | blendmaster1024 | they can't do that |
| 17:29.44 | blendmaster1024 | literally |
| 17:29.49 | blendmaster1024 | it's just unicode |
| 17:30.07 | blendmaster1024 | and it was unicode before they came along and attached a keybinding to insert it |
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| 17:31.46 | eightyeight | well, according to them, they invented it. according to the rest of the world, it's just a copy of a hebrew letter |
| 17:39.46 | blendmaster1024 | heh |
| 17:39.58 | blendmaster1024 | not surprising it's in a completely different unicode plane |
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| 18:11.53 | ^Migs^ | http://notalwaysright.com/cinnamon-never-tasted-so-bitter/5526 |
| 18:14.25 | ^Migs^ | http://notalwaysright.com/early-bird-brained/5520 |
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| 18:31.26 | sjansen | http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/05/24/171220/Stem-Cell-Patent-Halts-Hospitals-Collection |
| 18:35.16 | blendmaster1024 | sjansen, typical retardedness |
| 18:36.36 | sjansen | I dunno. Kinda goes beyond "typical retardeness" into outright evil in my opinion. |
| 18:37.05 | blendmaster1024 | dude, are you kidding me? i thought all typical retardedness was outright evil! |
| 18:39.58 | goozbach | blendmaster1024: nah |
| 18:40.18 | goozbach | retardedness is inherited and mostly involuntary |
| 18:40.38 | blendmaster1024 | ok i guess technically .. |
| 18:40.39 | goozbach | outright evil is 100% voluntary |
| 18:40.51 | TodPunk | evil is typically a label based on a specific perspective. I'm sure nobody in the scenario views what they're doing as evil, and all parties will be viewed as evil by other vantage points. |
| 18:41.18 | goozbach | TodPunk: what about evil for evil's sake |
| 18:41.19 | blendmaster1024 | TodPunk, that's an evil thing to say |
| 18:42.03 | goozbach | I knew that phrase sounded familar |
| 18:42.22 | goozbach | "evil for evil's sake" was a highlander episode. |
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| 18:44.19 | sjansen | "I didn't think it was evil." is no more a defense than "I was just following orders." |
| 18:45.20 | blendmaster1024 | sjansen++ |
| 18:47.31 | TodPunk | sjansen: a defense is different than a reason for doing something. Nobody says "Yeah, this is wrong, but obviously I should do it anyway." They either excuse it for being right somehow or they just don't see how it's wrong. |
| 18:47.49 | TodPunk | In other words, the why and the justification for it are separate. |
| 18:48.06 | sjansen | I disagree. I've known pleny of people who said "this may be wrong, but I'm too weak to do right". |
| 18:48.45 | JoshH | like what? |
| 18:49.11 | JoshH | nothing truly wrong, like killing jews, i assume |
| 18:49.20 | sjansen | *shrug* Whatever. |
| 18:49.22 | TodPunk | hence the justification for it. "too weak to do right" is a justification. Validity of that justification is left to interpretation. |
| 18:50.14 | JoshH | if you're talking about thigns like using outlook or scripting in php, then ya i've heard that too |
| 18:50.15 | TodPunk | Typically money/power is involved in the bigger "evils" people label as such |
| 18:51.56 | unum | I think people who steal often to believe their actions to be wrong |
| 18:52.00 | sjansen | I'm not going to argue moral relativism. |
| 18:53.09 | JoshH | unum: unless you're talking about piracy. nobody ever feels guitly about that, ime |
| 18:55.12 | TodPunk | I think morality and the labeling of things as "evil" are two different topics with a small but well identified overlap |
| 18:56.38 | TodPunk | Most things get labeled as "evil" if the labeler doesn't agree with it, and not so much just because it goes against their moral code. It would be a more respectable position if it were based on a moral code. |
| 18:56.54 | JoshH | like emacs |
| 18:57.08 | TodPunk | or vim |
| 18:57.11 | unum | I think most thieves would recognize what they are doing as wrong |
| 18:57.12 | macnewbold | emacs is not evil |
| 18:57.17 | JoshH | vim is virtuous |
| 18:57.20 | unum | they just don't care |
| 18:57.41 | TodPunk | unum: if they do, it is fleeting, and quickly adjusted |
| 18:57.56 | unum | I know people have stolen and no longer do it |
| 18:58.47 | unum | I have a roommate who has been convicted of armed robber, yet I don't expect him to steal from me |
| 18:58.49 | TodPunk | Yes, but recognizing it as a mistake after the fact is different. Why did they steal in the first place? The act was not done because it felt wrong. The act was done and THEN it felt wrong. Or however you'd like to describe it. |
| 18:59.15 | unum | I've commited acts I felt were wrong at the time I've committed them |
| 18:59.19 | unum | and committed them anyways |
| 18:59.31 | TodPunk | Yes, because you had an overriding reason to do so |
| 18:59.47 | unum | I tend to see things as socrates described them |
| 18:59.56 | unum | TodPunk: that's true of many theives |
| 19:00.02 | TodPunk | unum: I know |
| 19:00.04 | blendmaster1024 | "...afraid of the systems as amy shift under your kitchen ? |
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| 19:01.18 | TodPunk | The model I'm describing here is useful for approaching human behavior and decision making, not for setting up some sort of code of values. How we view the world is relevant to our experience, but doesn't help when interacting with other, equally important viewpoints. |
| 19:01.46 | TodPunk | In other words, i'm not describing ethics, I'm describing how people work. |
| 19:02.01 | TodPunk | or at least one way of /phrasing/ how people work |
| 19:02.09 | TodPunk | words tend to limit things |
| 19:02.19 | unum | as am I, people often do things they believe are wrong because they have overriding reasons to(often laziness) |
| 19:02.47 | TodPunk | and impatience =cP |
| 19:02.54 | unum | ya |
| 19:03.26 | unum | that probably plays a bigger role than anything |
| 19:03.45 | sjansen | *yawn* |
| 19:03.51 | TodPunk | I agree with you, unum. your point and mine coincide. All I'm saying is that their belief that it is wrong a) rarely occurs beforehand, and b) is not the reason they do it |
| 19:04.13 | unum | I agree with b completely disagree with a |
| 19:05.07 | TodPunk | Usually people do stupid things because of prior decisions that they're following through with. We don't actually make a whole lot of decisions in a given day. We make a few decisions that cascade into other decisions. |
| 19:05.58 | unum | that's contrary to the view I'm taking in thinking about this problem |
| 19:06.04 | TodPunk | For instance, you choose you need milk. You've already brought in other data and made decisions about what store to go to, how to pay for it, what directions to take, how you'll react to that guy riding your tail on the way, etc. Those aren't concious decisions, and "wrong" or "right" don't factor into them. |
| 19:06.31 | TodPunk | Theft is probably a bad example of the overall decision making process, truth be told. |
| 19:06.34 | unum | let's take the guy tailgating |
| 19:06.47 | unum | or rather my response |
| 19:06.51 | TodPunk | sure |
| 19:06.55 | unum | I don't always behave the same in that situation |
| 19:07.03 | TodPunk | of course not |
| 19:07.20 | TodPunk | but you rarely decide how to behave in that moment |
| 19:07.21 | unum | I believe I should continue to drive as normal, or speed up if appropriate(I'm driving belowe the speed limit) |
| 19:07.30 | unum | but sometimes I'll slow down |
| 19:07.40 | unum | because I feel like being a jerk |
| 19:07.47 | TodPunk | mhmmm |
| 19:07.51 | unum | EVERYTIME you decide how you are going to behave in the moment |
| 19:08.01 | unum | you may DECIDE to follow a previous decision |
| 19:08.08 | unum | but you still make the decision everytime |
| 19:08.15 | TodPunk | well, possibly in many interpretations, but rarely consciously. |
| 19:08.25 | unum | you're obvisouly not an addict |
| 19:08.34 | TodPunk | You'd be surprised. |
| 19:08.48 | unum | you addicts have to make the decision every second |
| 19:08.52 | unum | s/you// |
| 19:09.21 | TodPunk | addicts have to DECIDE to DECIDE every second. If we don't, the indecision is really a decision to continue. |
| 19:10.07 | unum | so while some decisions are made less consioucly they're still made |
| 19:10.25 | unum | and when they are made less consicously the thought "this is bad" may not occur |
| 19:10.29 | TodPunk | Remember, that the vast majority of people do not apply to the rules of those in this channel. Very little thinking is actually done by most people (including those in this room, actually) and most will run on autopilot where possible. |
| 19:10.36 | unum | and as something becomes a habbit I think that would be the case |
| 19:10.57 | elg | hobbits never think |
| 19:11.00 | elg | before acting |
| 19:11.14 | unum | but when people first decide to start doing something bad I think they think about it |
| 19:11.46 | TodPunk | Sometimes. That's usually the worst point to start. |
| 19:12.51 | TodPunk | In drug awareness, for instance, the goal is to get people to decide NOW, well before confronted with a possible situation, what their response is, largely because most people are not capable of processing all the variables for that decision in the moment. |
| 19:13.22 | TodPunk | It's also important to note that many people actually continue to decide as time goes on |
| 19:14.31 | TodPunk | The tailgaiting situation for instance. We have a sort of framework in our heads of what our options are, what the variables might be, etc. In the moment, we just sort of run that through the framework to arrive at a decision. Some would say the decision is made by that framework in the moment. |
| 19:15.08 | TodPunk | I personally believe if you have a relatively predictable way of determining the outcome of a situation beforehand, the decision must have been made, for the most part, beforehand. |
| 19:15.56 | TodPunk | Anyway, I'm talking too long about this. My lunch is over and I'm gonna get back to coding. |
| 19:16.06 | TodPunk | Thanks unum. You've given me some new perspectives to think about. |
| 19:29.12 | sjansen | I'm really getting sick of my hard drive effectively freezing the system. |
| 19:29.33 | sjansen | It's like running old Mac OS with more pixels. |
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| 20:42.02 | nathandelane | Can anybody tell me, would it be bad to send credit card information to a HTTPS-encrypted web-service? |
| 20:43.02 | nathandelane | This web service would be on the same domain |
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| 20:45.12 | goozbach | Jayce^? |
| 20:45.38 | Migs | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIe9O529MR0&feature=player_embedded#! |
| 21:05.18 | TodPunk | nathandelane: if you control both ends, I don't see why it's not fine. |
| 21:05.50 | TodPunk | Encrypting it over the wire is really the only requirement in that scenario, which https would do. |
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