| 01:25.31 | sjansen | echo "Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before!" | passwd --stdin |
| 01:25.36 | sjansen | oops |
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| 12:23.44 | eightyeight | anyone still running slackware, and can tell me the default umask value? |
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| 14:19.51 | eightyeight | sinuhe: so, running slack now, or have you always been a slack user? |
| 14:20.02 | sinuhe | I've always been a slack user. |
| 14:20.06 | sinuhe | Ask shalkie |
| 14:20.30 | eightyeight | is shalkie who i think it is? |
| 14:20.41 | sinuhe | Yes |
| 14:20.45 | eightyeight | sweet |
| 14:20.57 | sinuhe | I've just returned to slack prominence lately from the distractions GL has given me. |
| 14:21.01 | eightyeight | too many nicks from that guy to keep track of. :) |
| 14:21.10 | sinuhe | I also like OpenBSD and Plan9. Can never figure out my favourite. |
| 14:21.29 | eightyeight | what is the group scheme on plan9? |
| 14:21.56 | eightyeight | and umask value, if any |
| 14:23.49 | goozbach | eightyeight: I don't think plan9 works that way |
| 14:23.57 | goozbach | the security is a bit different |
| 14:25.10 | goozbach | looks to be efectively 022 |
| 14:25.33 | goozbach | minooka# touch boob |
| 14:25.35 | goozbach | minooka# ls -l boob |
| 14:25.37 | goozbach | --rw-r--r-- M 13911 dcarter dcarter 0 May 12 10:24 boob |
| 14:28.24 | eightyeight | ok. i'm not familiar with plan9 |
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| 15:11.45 | markl_ | does anyone here happen to have any crappy old hubs/switches laying around collecting dust? |
| 15:12.02 | markl_ | ideally a 48 port 10 megabit piece of crap |
| 15:12.32 | markl_ | or 10 |
| 15:21.08 | sinuhe | eightyeight: Plan 9 is the successor to Unix. Thompson and Pike decided that to improve Unix would require a rewrite. Instead of releasing Edition 10, they rewrote it from scratch, ported a bunch of tools in from 10, and rewrote others (copyright reasons). The result was the elegantly simple Plan 9. It looks a lot like Unix, but is very different. Completely open source, too, as of Edition 4. |
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| 15:22.02 | sinuhe | eightyeight: We get /proc and UTF-8 from Plan 9, for instance. |
| 15:22.53 | sinuhe | eightyeight: The Unix (including Linux) userland port (Plan 9 from user space) is quite nice. |
| 15:23.23 | goozbach | it's simple, but it |
| 15:23.41 | goozbach | s no where near ready for prime time as a standalnoe product |
| 15:23.58 | sinuhe | goozbach: Depends on what you intend to do with it. |
| 15:24.25 | goozbach | sell it as an operating system product |
| 15:24.39 | sinuhe | goozbach: Inferno is the commercial side of Plan 9 that seems to have done this. |
| 15:24.40 | goozbach | like linux/unix |
| 15:24.49 | sinuhe | Personally, I prefer Plan 9 over Inferno. |
| 15:25.16 | goozbach | I don't see it happening until I can use ssh version 2 (both client and server) |
| 15:25.38 | goozbach | but plan9 developers have a *VERY STRONG* NIH problem |
| 15:25.51 | sinuhe | SSH on plan 9 misses the point (though it is available) |
| 15:26.04 | goozbach | and drawterm is the only "santioned" acess |
| 15:26.26 | goozbach | I know ssh is avaliable, but look closer at my above statment |
| 15:26.29 | goozbach | ssh2 |
| 15:26.35 | goozbach | client *AND* server |
| 15:27.19 | sinuhe | Why would you want a plan 9 SSH server when you have p9p? Linux supports it, anyways. I suppose an older Unix system would have issues... |
| 15:28.06 | goozbach | sinuhe: let's say I want to ship an appliance based on plan9 |
| 15:28.19 | goozbach | i've writen a CLI and want to grant access to it |
| 15:28.35 | goozbach | you can do so easily over ssh2 if you're using a linux base |
| 15:28.47 | goozbach | not so if you're using plan9 |
| 15:30.52 | sinuhe | Couldn't you build your CLI against the plan 9 protocol libraries, turning it into a plan 9 app? |
| 15:31.08 | Migs | http://www.9news.com/rss/article.aspx?storyid=138734&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter |
| 15:31.46 | sinuhe | goozbach: At this point you have more experience with it than I, so I'll take your word for it. |
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| 15:33.36 | eightyeight | look at all that extra metadata at the end of the url |
| 15:35.16 | eightyeight | and the failure that is that site design |
| 15:35.18 | eightyeight | wow |
| 15:35.25 | sinuhe | goozbach: Build against p9p, you provide a remote terminal program to access the plan 9 tool over p9p. |
| 15:35.51 | sinuhe | goozbach: The terminal program is then ported to whatever system is acting as client. |
| 15:36.22 | eightyeight | http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4233/9newscom.png |
| 15:37.25 | goozbach | sinuhe: having a plan9 system as a pre-req to managing an appliance is a much higher barrier of entry than having an ssh client |
| 15:37.28 | sinuhe | eightyeight: nasty looking |
| 15:39.52 | sinuhe | goozbach: Most of the Plan 9 devs have abandoned plan 9 because of its lack of ability to take hold. Most Plan 9 work focuses on promoting p9p and the userspace. See Pike's paper on system's research being irrelevant (or dead). As for a better design, plan 9 is so far ahead of Unix, it's worth using for certain purposes (my original statement), such as devleopment. |
| 15:40.21 | sinuhe | s/devleo/develo/ |
| 15:40.32 | sinuhe | sigh |
| 15:41.18 | sinuhe | (UTF-8 has already succeeded in adoption.) |
| 15:44.41 | goozbach | we use plan9 as the OS running our storage |
| 15:44.45 | goozbach | it's very useful for that |
| 15:44.55 | goozbach | but managment is kinda difficult |
| 15:47.50 | sinuhe | I've been meaning to learn more about Venti. |
| 15:56.54 | sinuhe | The fact that most of the Plan 9 authors work for Good and run Linux and Mac systems may say a lot about Plan 9, (even though most of them run the plan 9 user space, too). |
| 15:57.00 | sinuhe | s/Good/Google/ |
| 15:57.06 | sinuhe | That was an interesting slip. |
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| 22:39.32 | unum | anyone here who has used bucardo |
| 22:39.36 | unum | bucardo_ctl |
| 22:40.06 | JoshH | is that like bacardi? |
| 22:40.15 | unum | not quite |
| 22:41.10 | fozzmoo | unum: Wow. You're turning into quite the Perl/PostgreSQL geek. :) |
| 22:41.18 | fozzmoo | unum: We should hang out. |
| 22:42.31 | unum | ya, I've been spending a lot of time on it |
| 22:44.30 | unum | I'm having trouble understanding herds |
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| 23:37.24 | unum | that wasn't so hard |
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