| 00:13.00 | elg | goozbach: I hadn't |
| 00:13.05 | elg | but it looks awesome |
| 00:13.20 | elg | not suited for bread, but I'm sure it makes fantastic pizza |
| 00:13.27 | elg | you're making your own? |
| 00:14.05 | elg | and, are you going to make your own sourdough? |
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| 00:39.48 | tensai | elg: my sourdough seems to be near death again |
| 00:40.42 | tensai | just not seeing much activity from it |
| 00:45.46 | jsmith | TodPunk: emtek.us is also looking to hire a programmer or two in the SLC area |
| 01:40.44 | TodPunk | jsmith: thanks for the note. I'll look them up. |
| 01:41.32 | jsmith | TodPunk: I've got a friend there, and would be happy to introduce you if you'd like. |
| 01:41.58 | jsmith | TodPunk: (I don't know exactly what kind of developer they're looking for... my friend who works there isn't a computer geek, so he didn't really know) |
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| 01:43.51 | TodPunk | Oh wow, they work with some awesome equipment |
| 01:44.21 | TodPunk | Yeah, jsmith, I'd love an introduction. Don't know if I can do what they need, but if I can, they look pretty cool! |
| 01:46.21 | jsmith | TodPunk: Yeah :-) You gonna be online tomorrow? I'll introduce you to my friend Blake who works there, assuming he's online. |
| 01:46.54 | TodPunk | Yeah, what kind of online would you prefer? I have IRC, AIM, MSN, and gtalk |
| 02:01.57 | jsmith | TodPunk: He's on MSN... I'll grab you here in IRC tomorrow and get you two hooked up via MSN |
| 02:02.05 | jsmith | wanders off to get some shut-eye |
| 02:02.53 | TodPunk | sleep well man |
| 02:03.02 | jsmith | Will do |
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| 14:40.58 | Migs | Is there some utility I can use to remap URLs across my organization? For example, I want http://twitter.com/username to point to http://twitter.myorganization.com/username but in the URL bar, it should still show http://twitter.com/username |
| 14:41.45 | macnewbold | Migs: i think in order to do that, you'd need some kind of control over what twitter.com/username does |
| 14:41.53 | macnewbold | but to keep the url bar the same, |
| 14:42.07 | macnewbold | you'd make twitter.com/username be a frameset document that loads in a frame of twitter.myorg.com/username |
| 14:42.20 | macnewbold | then twitter.myorg.com/username would control the content of the page, |
| 14:42.29 | macnewbold | but the urlbar would show twitter.com |
| 14:42.38 | macnewbold | some places call it a "stealth url redirect" |
| 14:42.41 | Migs | that's basically what I'm planning on doing. Making twitter.myorg.com a limited version of twitter.com. A proxy |
| 14:42.48 | Migs | stealth url redirect? |
| 14:42.58 | Migs | that helps, thanks |
| 14:43.03 | Migs | just wasn't sure what to search for |
| 14:43.03 | macnewbold | but in order for it to show twitter.com/username in the url bar, |
| 14:43.15 | macnewbold | you'd really need to have twitter.com/username give back this frameset doc |
| 14:43.34 | Migs | hmmm |
| 14:43.39 | macnewbold | in otherwords, you'd need twitter.com/username to be chosen by you |
| 14:43.44 | TodPunk | you could setup DNS entries for twitter.com to point to your proxy server serving this up |
| 14:43.52 | Migs | that's what I was hoping, TodPunk |
| 14:44.09 | macnewbold | ah, if it only needs to apply to people using your DNS servers, that would work nicely |
| 14:44.18 | Migs | Yes, this is internal |
| 14:44.22 | macnewbold | a great way to remind them that all their base are belong to you |
| 14:44.30 | Migs | I'm trying to figure out a way to let people use Twitter but still block all the profile image porn |
| 14:44.34 | macnewbold | haha |
| 14:44.35 | TodPunk | that's the easy part. Doing the rest of what macnewbold is saying would be less than easy |
| 14:44.36 | macnewbold | interesting |
| 14:44.52 | macnewbold | if you're doing it with dns tricks, |
| 14:44.56 | macnewbold | you wouldn't even need the frameset thing |
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| 14:45.00 | macnewbold | just set up your proxy server |
| 14:45.03 | macnewbold | to think it is twitter.com |
| 14:45.04 | Migs | our filter isn't flexible enough to just block the profiles on twimg.com |
| 14:45.11 | Migs | okay |
| 14:45.21 | TodPunk | oh, Migs, I believe twitter images come from a different dns name. Just redirect that to localhost and you're good. |
| 14:45.52 | Migs | yes, they come from a#.twimg.com, but the problem is so do the normal web site images |
| 14:46.24 | Migs | twimg.com/profile_images is where they're stored, but our filter can't distinguish subdirectories |
| 14:46.38 | TodPunk | I see |
| 14:46.40 | macnewbold | ah |
| 14:46.58 | macnewbold | you might be able to simply do that with a transparent proxy, no dns tricks required |
| 14:47.01 | Migs | what's more, Twitter uses Amazon EC2 servers, which means the IP changes too much. I thought maybe I could just cache the web site images somehow, and just block twimg.com |
| 14:47.06 | macnewbold | squid or dansguardian or something |
| 14:47.40 | Migs | I'm not the guy in charge of our network setup, though, and not entirely with what we have going on. I need to communicate with them. |
| 14:47.44 | Migs | squidgard and dans can do that? |
| 14:48.08 | Migs | *and not entirely familiar with... |
| 14:48.34 | Migs | although, it might be cool to have a twitter.myorg.com. That way I can gather and deliver specific statistics on OUR Twitter users. |
| 14:48.48 | Migs | I started doing that here: http://twitter.weber.k12.ut.us but I could do a lot more |
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| 14:52.06 | goozbach | block it outright |
| 14:52.24 | Migs | Nonsense. Twitter is awesome, if used appropriately. |
| 14:52.26 | goozbach | then setup status.net internally |
| 14:53.13 | Migs | Status.net or Edmodo might be nice for us to use microblogging with our students, but Twitter is great for connecting with professionals on the outside |
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| 15:21.59 | markl_ | any communication system that goes through a single corporate entity is bad news |
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| 15:22.16 | markl_ | a twitter-like system that you can implement on your own network would be cool |
| 15:22.54 | goozbach | i think you're fighting a losing battle with bad twitter profiles for very little return on investment |
| 15:23.53 | fozzmoo | like identi.ca? |
| 15:24.02 | zzzirk | yeah, identi.ca was my thought as well |
| 15:24.24 | goozbach | fozzmoo: identi.ca is now status.net |
| 15:24.32 | markl_ | not sure, i just get creeped out by facebook, twitter, etc. |
| 15:24.46 | fozzmoo | goozbach: I quit using twitter and identi.ca sometime last year. |
| 15:26.51 | goozbach | fozzmoo: all together? |
| 15:26.56 | goozbach | good for you |
| 15:27.14 | fozzmoo | Yeah. I needed to get some work done. :) |
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| 15:29.07 | goozbach | I see |
| 15:29.36 | zzzirk | work? pshaw |
| 15:36.23 | TodPunk | Work is for sissies. Real men take naps! |
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| 15:47.37 | elg | tensai: you sourdoughbuser |
| 15:48.27 | elg | if you're seeing some activity, it's easy enough to resuscitate it. feed it every 12 hours and leave it on the counter, until it is healthy |
| 15:57.37 | zzzirk | feed it? does it like small children? |
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| 16:02.04 | TodPunk | I believe he means yeast. |
| 16:04.04 | goozbach | not yeast |
| 16:04.06 | goozbach | flour |
| 16:04.29 | goozbach | you feed the yeast which exists, flour |
| 16:05.06 | TodPunk | I meant feeding the yeast. (flour is dead when you're using it) |
| 16:05.19 | TodPunk | I'd think some sugar would do better on that for revival, though. |
| 16:07.44 | Gate | but would more severely alter the taste, presuming you still intend to eat this colony |
| 16:08.23 | goozbach | you feed the yeast the sugar which exists naturally in flour |
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| 16:28.06 | elg | you don't want to revive an existing set of yeast cells (for which sugar may or may not be more effective), you want to revive the culture. |
| 16:28.25 | elg | feeding it sugar would do no good, and probably more harm. |
| 16:28.44 | elg | just like starting sourdough culture with grape skins and baker's yeast is silly |
| 16:30.12 | goozbach | elg: I may just do an IDY poolish |
| 16:30.19 | goozbach | for my pizza dough |
| 16:30.33 | goozbach | following the varasano's recipie |
| 16:30.47 | elg | IDY? |
| 16:30.54 | goozbach | instant dry yeast |
| 16:31.04 | elg | oh. sure that'll be nice |
| 16:31.52 | goozbach | or perhaps a sponge ala alton brown's bread |
| 16:32.01 | goozbach | 24-48hours |
| 16:32.04 | goozbach | in the fridge |
| 16:32.06 | elg | but remember two things: varasano is very imprecise, I wouldn't count on his instructions for reproducing results (do pay close attention to his photos though). sourdough is like a super poolish/sponge/etc. |
| 16:32.24 | goozbach | then do the knead that varasano does |
| 16:32.25 | elg | and of course, you can try them all, many times |
| 16:32.27 | goozbach | super wet |
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| 16:32.46 | goozbach | then partition and sloooooow rise like unto varasanao |
| 16:32.49 | elg | which is how I know he's imprecise. he describes super wet dough and has pictures of wet dough |
| 16:32.53 | elg | and then talks about 65% hydration |
| 16:32.58 | goozbach | yeah |
| 16:33.00 | goozbach | he's not measuring |
| 16:33.13 | goozbach | or his definition of 65% is different than mine |
| 16:33.14 | elg | yup |
| 16:33.30 | elg | i can't think of any definition of 65% that would jive |
| 16:33.50 | goozbach | BTW I'm going to eat at varasanos on Saturday |
| 16:33.51 | elg | esp. since IIRC he gives the proper definition in the text (ratio of ingredient to flour which is 100% by definition) |
| 16:33.59 | elg | cool, I'm interested to hear how it isi |
| 16:34.05 | goozbach | you bet |
| 16:34.18 | goozbach | I didn't know he had opened a resturant |
| 16:34.27 | goozbach | I'd seen his recipe many years ago |
| 16:34.39 | goozbach | couldn't find it again until you posted it to facebook |
| 16:34.52 | elg | me too. i came back to it the other day to reread it and revisit my pizza dough technique, and saw the restaurant at the top |
| 16:34.55 | elg | and pinged you |
| 16:35.05 | goozbach | the place we've been going for good pizza is Antico |
| 16:35.26 | goozbach | http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/02/15/pizza.maestro.boy/index.html |
| 16:35.40 | goozbach | it's AMAZING!!! |
| 16:35.47 | elg | our pizza the other day turned out very good, and the only change to my normal routine I made was a couple stretch and fold early in the process and a slightly higher hydration |
| 16:36.33 | elg | like, 2% higher. (about 70/72%) |
| 16:37.07 | elg | 425g AP flour, 300g water, 7g salt |
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| 16:37.41 | goozbach | I need a scale something fierce |
| 16:37.50 | elg | and whatever leavening, which depends on how long you're going to ferment it. (I like to do at least overnight but in practice we're pretty spontaneous about when we make pizza so usually instant yeast for a 1-2 hour rise) |
| 16:38.07 | elg | escali primo |
| 16:38.16 | elg | totally awesome scale and it comes in gobs of colors |
| 16:38.19 | goozbach | you don't really need one when you're doing cookies, but having one for bread is almost a requirement |
| 16:38.22 | elg | $25 at amazon |
| 16:38.26 | goozbach | really? |
| 16:38.29 | goozbach | tare function |
| 16:38.35 | goozbach | what's it's precision? |
| 16:38.38 | elg | 1g |
| 16:38.39 | elg | tare |
| 16:38.45 | elg | grams, lb+oz, oz |
| 16:38.56 | elg | stays on long enough to get your next ingredient |
| 16:39.02 | elg | goes negative from the tar |
| 16:39.03 | elg | tare |
| 16:39.13 | elg | handles spilling well |
| 16:39.22 | elg | no silly glass trays to break |
| 16:39.51 | goozbach | what do you mean about "staying on long enough to get your next ingredient"? |
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| 16:40.05 | elg | all scales I've seen will shut off to save battery after a while |
| 16:40.21 | elg | many shut off too soon, and you're scrambling to find the next ingredient because you're a lazy bum and didn't mise en place |
| 16:40.46 | elg | which sounds like a silly thing, but in reality it's a big help. |
| 16:42.05 | elg | example: |
| 16:42.24 | elg | set the bowl on, tare, pour in the flour - oops, not enough flour, got to go to food storage to get more |
| 16:42.50 | elg | if you only have 30 seconds, you have to memorize the number on the scale (or have the weight of the bowl memorized, and don't think I haven't been tempted to take a sharpie to my bowls) |
| 16:43.07 | elg | then do subtraction |
| 16:43.20 | elg | and fail at doing arithmetic in your head and ruin the recipe. :) |
| 16:43.30 | tensai | elg: don't forget to account for the weight of the ink |
| 16:43.37 | elg | ~lart tensai |
| 16:43.37 | ibot | installs PocketPC on tensai's PDA |
| 16:43.57 | elg | don't forget to account for the weight of a windows os |
| 16:44.05 | tensai | ha! my pda came with pocketpc pre-installed |
| 16:44.13 | tensai | and it sucks :( |
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| 17:16.37 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | Utah Linux $RANDOM | Goonies never say die! |
| 17:22.09 | rsimpkins | freak, you know your title is too freakin' long when you can't remember it correctly. |
| 17:22.16 | rsimpkins | :( |
| 17:24.08 | sjansen | What title would that be? |
| 17:24.34 | rsimpkins | Site Catalyst Senior Linux System Administrator, Discover, Data Warehouse, and Platform Network Operations Product Team Leader |
| 17:24.45 | rsimpkins | I think that is all inclusive. |
| 17:24.53 | rsimpkins | SCSLSADDPNOPTL |
| 17:25.00 | sjansen | Grand High Bulp Supreme Commander of All Servers and Switches of the Gully Dwarves and Friends |
| 17:25.09 | sjansen | you win |
| 17:25.14 | TodPunk | Skizzles Add P-noptul. |
| 17:25.49 | rsimpkins | I usually say "sys admin" |
| 17:25.56 | rsimpkins | cause, I'm lazy. |
| 17:26.06 | TodPunk | as a good sys admin should be |
| 17:27.01 | rsimpkins | SA is even better, if you've got a crowed the groks acronymns. |
| 17:27.28 | rsimpkins | I told some friends once I was an "SA" they thought I said "Essay" and were very confused. |
| 17:31.11 | Migs | I'm never putting off giantass projects until the last two weeks of the semester again |
| 17:31.34 | TodPunk | you say that now... |
| 17:31.38 | Migs | NEVER |
| 17:31.48 | Migs | I forgot how much procrastination in schoolwork sucks |
| 17:35.48 | markl_ | you're not kidding |
| 17:36.20 | unum | I always prograstinated |
| 17:36.26 | unum | which is why I hated school :) |
| 17:37.39 | TodPunk | I hated school because most of the professors were incompetent and even the ones that weren't moved incredibly slowly through material that was fairly useless in reality most fo the time. |
| 17:37.46 | TodPunk | is only a little bitter |
| 17:41.45 | markl_ | true enough, but one thing a college degree proves is that you are able to deal with people like that. college is certainly not the last time in your life that you will deal with that mentality! |
| 17:45.01 | fozzmoo | college... is all about jumping through loops on command. |
| 17:45.15 | fozzmoo | The degree is just formal certification that you can jump through hoops on command. :) |
| 17:45.51 | fozzmoo | *plink plink* |
| 17:46.29 | JoshH | for me it's not just about what material is relevant to reality, i just plain enjoy learning |
| 17:47.13 | JoshH | i've never thought of academics as just a necessary stepping stone to a job |
| 17:47.31 | fozzmoo | JoshH: I don't think it is, but a lot of people look at the degree that way. |
| 17:48.07 | JoshH | in fact, if i could somehow avoid responsibiities in life, i'd probably just stay at a university taking all kinds of classes for the rest of my life |
| 17:48.29 | fozzmoo | My problem in school, aside from being horribly unorganized, was that I was always finding projects - either work and/or pay-related - to distract me from actual school work. |
| 17:49.15 | fozzmoo | I wrote a bulletin board system in VMS DCL in 1991 while in school. Totally useless, but I had a blast doing it. |
| 17:50.28 | fozzmoo | TodPunk: But, yeah, I hear you on the incompetence. I returned to USU after taking 6 months off to teach Unix system admin classes for a company in SLC and one of the classes I had to take was the Unix class. |
| 17:51.05 | fozzmoo | The professor that taught it was (a) pretty incompetent and (b) not willing to admit he was wrong, so (c) ended up teaching students completely wrong material. |
| 17:51.23 | fozzmoo | Oh, and he insisted on pronouncing 'grep' like 'greep' |
| 17:51.56 | goozbach | you don't greep for steef? |
| 17:52.14 | fozzmoo | goozbach: :) |
| 17:52.20 | fozzmoo | I think I got a C+ in that class. |
| 17:52.22 | TodPunk | I used to pronounce "kernel" like "cur - nell" xD |
| 17:52.37 | TodPunk | I still do sometimes |
| 17:53.12 | TodPunk | I'm not so much interested in a job as I'm interested in learning things that help me DO things, and college only does that part of the time. |
| 17:53.32 | har-od | do I dare even bring up the dueling pronounciations of "daemon"? |
| 18:03.53 | JoshH | at least the professor doesn't say "guh-noo slash lye-nucks" |
| 18:06.44 | markl_ | goo nee goo goo |
| 18:16.19 | levi | College is for learning all the interesting stuff there's no time to learn in the workplace. |
| 18:17.58 | fozzmoo | JoshH: GAH! Don't ever ask me to recount my 2 hours in a car with Richard Stallman. |
| 18:18.10 | JoshH | heh |
| 18:18.14 | JoshH | did you talk politics? |
| 18:20.01 | unum | we made him ride in a car with "linux" license plates :) |
| 18:20.05 | tensai | did you talk body odor? |
| 18:20.44 | unum | no but I did watch him wash his hair in my tub(he was fully dressed) |
| 18:20.48 | JoshH | did you talk about shaving? |
| 18:21.27 | JoshH | unum: tell the whole story |
| 18:24.10 | unum | well it started when fozzmoo dropped him off after picking him up from the air port |
| 18:24.34 | unum | I don't think there's really much more to tell until I showed him into the ballroow where he was speaking |
| 18:24.40 | unum | but other in the channel were around for that |
| 18:25.00 | fozzmoo | The guy has a serious Jesus-complex. |
| 18:26.28 | unum | bing lost $713 million last quater |
| 18:35.55 | markl_ | fozzmoo: heh hopefully you had the windows down |
| 18:53.16 | rsimpkins | 12.88 trillion dollars. man that is a hard number to fathom. |
| 18:55.50 | markl_ | naah, we can just do the turkey approach and knock off some zeros (assuming you're talking about national debt there) |
| 18:57.26 | rsimpkins | I guess I don't see how anyone recovers from this - at all - given any agenda you can possibly dream up. |
| 18:57.36 | rsimpkins | Unless your agenda happens to be anarchy. |
| 18:57.53 | fozzmoo | Nope. There's no tax cut or tax increase that will help in any measurable way. |
| 18:57.57 | rsimpkins | The best thing we can hope for is an invasion from Canada. |
| 18:58.11 | fozzmoo | The only thing the government can do is stop spending so much money. |
| 18:58.33 | fozzmoo | But that's not going to happen.Not in the next 3 years anyway. |
| 18:58.37 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Okay, start cutting. Let's start with the single largest user (and waster) of dollars, the military. |
| 18:58.47 | fozzmoo | Fine by me. |
| 18:59.02 | rsimpkins | Let's just leave iraq and afghanistan. |
| 18:59.04 | fozzmoo | I'm actually with Ron Paul on this... Bring em all home. |
| 18:59.04 | rsimpkins | just walk away. |
| 18:59.08 | rsimpkins | it costs too much. |
| 18:59.11 | fozzmoo | It does. |
| 18:59.23 | JoshH | let's just not even have a government |
| 18:59.24 | rsimpkins | It is easier to have a plane fly in to a building every now and then. |
| 18:59.28 | rsimpkins | honstley, it costs less. |
| 18:59.34 | Migs | they're deploying the last of the troops to Iraq before they bring them all home |
| 18:59.39 | fozzmoo | I would hope what we've done in Iraq and Afghanistan leaves those countries in a better place than they were 10 years ago... |
| 18:59.50 | fozzmoo | so, yeah, if we just move out... it's a net win for them. |
| 18:59.56 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: It will, until we leave, and there is a civil war. |
| 18:59.58 | Migs | at what expense? |
| 19:00.07 | fozzmoo | Not our problem. |
| 19:00.10 | JoshH | rsimpkins: that's why we should just nuke the middle east |
| 19:00.20 | Migs | why did we have to throw away so much money just to help THEM become a better country? |
| 19:00.31 | Migs | Shouldn't we take care of our own first? |
| 19:00.31 | JoshH | then turn it into an aladdin themepark and oil company area |
| 19:00.35 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Well, it would reduce the cost of maintaining our nuclear missles we don't really need... and are kind of dumb to have any way. |
| 19:00.56 | rsimpkins | Ask bush. he had some revelation about going to iraq. |
| 19:01.10 | fozzmoo | We should take all nukes somewhere.. .like... South Dakota.. |
| 19:01.25 | fozzmoo | Set them all off... and then harvest the energy for everyone. |
| 19:01.42 | fozzmoo | No more need for oil. |
| 19:01.58 | fozzmoo | And no more South Dakota. Win/win. |
| 19:02.01 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: So long as we dont' have any regulation of the nuclear power industry. |
| 19:02.04 | JoshH | we could use them to take out russia and china and north korea too, so we wouldn't have to worry about theirs |
| 19:02.20 | JoshH | but if we didn't need our military, what would we spend all the extra money on? |
| 19:02.22 | fozzmoo | Nah- that'd cost too much. |
| 19:02.22 | rsimpkins | Let's let the freemarket decide if they want to buy electricity from companies who build dangerous and deadly power plants. |
| 19:02.27 | JoshH | or would the money just get returned back to us |
| 19:02.28 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Paying down the debt. |
| 19:02.56 | rsimpkins | We really can't afford to keep the NRC going either, and they are doing a bad job any way. |
| 19:03.00 | rsimpkins | Let's fire them. |
| 19:03.10 | rsimpkins | How many people does the fed government put to work? |
| 19:03.11 | fozzmoo | Or the NEA |
| 19:03.15 | fozzmoo | Too many. |
| 19:03.22 | rsimpkins | I imagine we'll free up 1.2M or so working people to do other things. |
| 19:03.25 | fozzmoo | Let half of them go. |
| 19:03.34 | goozbach | ohh get em working on building bridges |
| 19:03.36 | fozzmoo | Ahhh! But the unemployment numbers will go up! |
| 19:03.41 | rsimpkins | So. |
| 19:03.46 | fozzmoo | Yeah. It'll be okay. |
| 19:03.48 | rsimpkins | They aren't already going up? |
| 19:03.53 | fozzmoo | exactly. |
| 19:04.26 | fozzmoo | And once we get rid of all the illegal aliens... there will be plenty of openings for jobs at McDonalds and doing landscape maintenance. |
| 19:04.36 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: no, not really, but we can dream. |
| 19:05.37 | fozzmoo | Dang. You really had me going there. |
| 19:06.19 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: BTW. 12.8T isn't really that much when you compare it to the total of debt + unfunded liabilities. Then you're looking at over $100T |
| 19:06.20 | rsimpkins | Well, you see, no one will work those jobs for what they pay unless you happen to be living in the shadows. |
| 19:06.42 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: yeah, I agree. |
| 19:07.02 | JoshH | how will we get rid of the illegals? |
| 19:07.07 | JoshH | illegal roundup weekends? |
| 19:07.24 | JoshH | it would be more fun than rattlesnakes |
| 19:07.46 | rsimpkins | Okay, here is what we do. Let's get the military to bring the gunships home, and put them to use kicking out anyone who can't prove they are a citizen. |
| 19:07.53 | rsimpkins | No need for a trial - no papers - you are out! |
| 19:07.54 | goozbach | ohh |
| 19:08.05 | goozbach | police state! |
| 19:08.06 | rsimpkins | It doesn't matter where, just put them on the other side of the nearest border. |
| 19:08.09 | fozzmoo | Yeah- and make EVERYONE show papers... not just the brown, funny-talking ones. |
| 19:08.28 | fozzmoo | that way you're not profiling. |
| 19:08.29 | goozbach | I call dibs on being a bicicle courier |
| 19:08.29 | rsimpkins | Let's make it someone else's problem. ;-) |
| 19:09.05 | rsimpkins | We need to put a sign on the statue of liberty that says "FULL" |
| 19:09.26 | rsimpkins | send those sorry folks with horrible lives back in to the shanty towns they came from. |
| 19:09.32 | fozzmoo | NO VACANCY |
| 19:09.59 | rsimpkins | Each one we turn away will get a little .50 american flag though. |
| 19:10.02 | rsimpkins | made in china of course. |
| 19:10.15 | rsimpkins | so they can feel like their trip wasn't a total waste. |
| 19:11.04 | fozzmoo | I wonder... I wonder how much of the debt we could pay down if we offered to let illegal immigrants buy their citizenship. |
| 19:11.08 | rsimpkins | Honestly. I have often wondered how much we could get for alaska. |
| 19:11.21 | rsimpkins | Like, what if we sold alaska to china, with all its natrual resources. |
| 19:11.25 | rsimpkins | How much could we get for it? |
| 19:11.40 | fozzmoo | Or we could tap Alaska's resources ourselves... Oh wait. No. That's not possible. |
| 19:11.55 | rsimpkins | It isn't, so just sell it to a country who doesn't give a dang about the environment. |
| 19:12.00 | JoshH | fozzmoo: we basically do, if they can afford it and don't mind the waiting period |
| 19:12.05 | rsimpkins | Exploit, exploit, exploit. |
| 19:12.32 | rsimpkins | I'm guessing we could get at least 30 trillion for it. |
| 19:12.34 | rsimpkins | What do you think? |
| 19:12.39 | fozzmoo | Wow... If we made illegal aliens pay $20,000 for instant citizenship and there's 20 million of them... |
| 19:12.56 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: How many illegal aliens do you know? |
| 19:13.07 | rsimpkins | Like, on a personal level? |
| 19:13.16 | fozzmoo | You don't think they've sent $20,000 back home? |
| 19:13.33 | fozzmoo | Okay. $10,000 |
| 19:13.37 | JoshH | maybe some |
| 19:13.44 | JoshH | most of the ones i've actually learned about have most of their family here |
| 19:13.50 | fozzmoo | Or maybe the real question is... how much is citizenship worth? |
| 19:14.10 | fozzmoo | But anyway... That's like $100B right there. |
| 19:14.23 | rsimpkins | okay, sell citizenship, sell alaska. |
| 19:14.29 | rsimpkins | We could sell texas to mexico. |
| 19:14.31 | fozzmoo | $20T, actually. |
| 19:14.48 | rsimpkins | maybe california could be sold too? |
| 19:15.07 | fozzmoo | Or leased. |
| 19:15.20 | rsimpkins | I think it already is leased to japan. |
| 19:15.43 | fozzmoo | Alright. I'm hungry now. |
| 19:15.47 | JoshH | we could sell utah to the lds church for a few hundred billion |
| 19:15.50 | rsimpkins | we could sell hawaii to japan I'm sure. |
| 19:16.35 | rsimpkins | We have lots of things we could sell. |
| 19:16.40 | fozzmoo | I think the Obama's were planning on moving into the Iolani Palace there after he's done being president. |
| 19:16.49 | rsimpkins | If we do this right, we won't have to pay any taxes for 50 years. |
| 19:17.58 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: I'm curious about my question though. How many illegal aliens do you know on a personal level? |
| 19:18.01 | JoshH | why not just let saudi arabia buy the whole country? |
| 19:18.03 | rsimpkins | Or, have known? |
| 19:18.10 | rsimpkins | JoshH: I don't think they want it. |
| 19:19.41 | goozbach | I know a bunch |
| 19:22.20 | rsimpkins | goozbach: May I ask how you know them? Through you work, neighbors, etc? |
| 19:22.53 | *** join/#utah Tadaka (~Tadaka@c-76-27-2-230.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:27.05 | goozbach | rsimpkins: I was the only guy who worked at the grocery store who spoke spanish |
| 19:27.14 | goozbach | so they'd come to shop when I was working |
| 19:27.21 | goozbach | I got to know a bunch of families |
| 19:27.32 | goozbach | I used to go to dinner with them |
| 19:27.42 | goozbach | got to know 2-3 families really well |
| 19:28.01 | goozbach | 40-50% of them were here legally |
| 19:28.02 | rsimpkins | goozbach: Why didn't you report them to the INS so they could be deported? |
| 19:28.10 | JoshH | he's not a patriot |
| 19:28.18 | fozzmoo | He was like... a teenager. |
| 19:28.29 | fozzmoo | (and not a patriot) |
| 19:28.55 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Hyrum, UT. That's all I got to say. :) |
| 19:29.12 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Did you get to know any of the families? |
| 19:29.14 | goozbach | *shrug* this was just after I got home from my mission (in mexico) so I was a little jaded by what I saw there |
| 19:29.42 | goozbach | they were good folks |
| 19:29.55 | goozbach | but yes they were breaking the law just by being here |
| 19:30.28 | JoshH | i broke the law this morning, i got up to about 70mph during my commute |
| 19:30.29 | rsimpkins | I think we should impound cars from people who speed. |
| 19:30.36 | fozzmoo | gasps at JoshH |
| 19:30.42 | rsimpkins | JoshH: You're car is impounded buddy. |
| 19:30.58 | rsimpkins | No more driving for 1 year until you can learn to follow the law. |
| 19:31.30 | fozzmoo | Oh, but the city will give him back his car and license to drive in exchange for $250. |
| 19:31.33 | rsimpkins | Honestly, I love driving in san jose - the fine for any traffic violation is amazingly high - so everyone is very careful. |
| 19:31.50 | rsimpkins | $250 is far too cheap for a speeding ticket. |
| 19:32.01 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Unless you're an illegal alien.... then the courts don't even try to prosecute in many cases. |
| 19:32.05 | rsimpkins | talking on your cell phone in san jose could cost you a $600 ticket. |
| 19:33.15 | rsimpkins | If speeding in utah might cost you $500 base, and $250 for each mph over the speed limit - do you think you'd slow down? |
| 19:33.24 | fozzmoo | No. |
| 19:33.39 | rsimpkins | Do you think you'd slow down after your first $2000 fine? |
| 19:34.00 | fozzmoo | Stormy Peters showed in her UTOSC (and OSCON) presentation that negative incentives aren't particularly effective. |
| 19:34.14 | rsimpkins | hehe, stormy needs to visit san jose. ;-) |
| 19:34.21 | fozzmoo | heh. I'm sure she has. |
| 19:34.21 | JoshH | the death penalty doesn't seem to stop murderers |
| 19:34.53 | fozzmoo | Neither does incarceration. |
| 19:35.04 | JoshH | what we need is positive reinforcement |
| 19:35.08 | rsimpkins | and big fines won't stop speeding. but 3 will get you 5 that it would significantly decrease it. |
| 19:35.11 | JoshH | checks in the mail for each month that i never speed |
| 19:35.28 | markl_ | the problem is that you have to have a very real expectation of being hit by the negative incentives. |
| 19:35.28 | rsimpkins | No money for that. |
| 19:35.46 | markl_ | people speed because 99.9% of the time you get away with it, for example |
| 19:36.07 | markl_ | which is what the local governments want - to be able to write plenty of tickets to pay for cop cars, etc |
| 19:36.13 | rsimpkins | We could probably hire a few more cops if they helped earn the city $20,000 a day in tickets. |
| 19:36.40 | rsimpkins | Just be a REALLY good driver. ;-) |
| 19:38.06 | rsimpkins | If we outsourced the police force, that would work too. |
| 19:38.23 | rsimpkins | Hire a private corporation to write the tickets using automated sensors and cameras. |
| 19:39.14 | rsimpkins | Then let the free market regulate. |
| 19:40.38 | rsimpkins | no one likes these ideas, or you all agree? |
| 19:41.17 | rsimpkins | Maybe a box in every car that records traffic violations. Then the police set up roadblocks once a month, check everyone's box, and write a stack of tickets? |
| 19:41.29 | *** part/#utah |phoenyx| (~|phoenyx|@70.102.172.126) |
| 19:42.05 | rsimpkins | they could check your papers while they got you there too. |
| 19:42.30 | rsimpkins | and maybe have you pass through a metal detector, etc, to search for anything illegal. |
| 19:42.40 | pashdown | saliva test |
| 19:42.55 | rsimpkins | pashdown: I know you're down for some of these ideas. ;-) |
| 19:42.56 | pashdown | constitution quiz |
| 19:44.34 | JoshH | for citizenship, or running for office? |
| 19:44.53 | pashdown | for buying alcohol |
| 19:45.18 | rsimpkins | Didn't we outlaw that? |
| 19:46.06 | markl_ | actually i wouldn't mind just paying the speeding tickets if they didn't count toward points & insurance :) |
| 19:46.37 | markl_ | pashdown: how about a cavity search before you are allowed to vote? |
| 19:47.16 | rsimpkins | A pat down at work before you begin your day, along with a check to ensure your gun is properly concealed. |
| 19:48.41 | markl_ | rsimpkins: yeah bad ideas for sure |
| 19:49.26 | rsimpkins | I just wonder where you draw the line. When you start to say we should be hard-core in one aspect of the law, where do you stop and say "this law is okay to not enforce so strictly, becuase I happen to violate it almost every day" |
| 19:49.30 | pashdown | did you know those hippies in vermont allow conceal/carry without a license? |
| 19:49.58 | rsimpkins | So, did Arizona follow vermont? |
| 19:50.09 | pashdown | don't know, someone from vermont told me that. |
| 19:51.43 | rsimpkins | Just how much deregulation is really wise? If we stop dropping the federal acronym smorgasbord, do we get to a point where we've cut to much and caused unintended side-effects? |
| 19:51.54 | rsimpkins | er, start dropping, not stop. |
| 19:52.36 | rsimpkins | For example, which regulatory pratices are actually making the community we live in safter/better, etc? |
| 19:52.56 | markl_ | rsimpkins: dude, reagan proved that deregulation and tax cuts are always good. end of story |
| 19:53.12 | markl_ | but yeah those are definitely tricky questions |
| 19:53.22 | pashdown | ++ deficit spending |
| 19:54.02 | rsimpkins | One thing I think is feeding the fire of the culture war is not understanding what the government actually does. |
| 19:54.22 | pashdown | whatever it is, i don't like it! |
| 19:54.26 | rsimpkins | hehe |
| 19:54.36 | JoshH | it makes us socialist |
| 19:55.24 | markl_ | rsimpkins: if i didn't believe in freedom so much, I would require everyone who discusses politics to write a report on Politics & The English Language by George Orwell before getting their political discussion license |
| 19:55.48 | TodPunk | I go to lunch and you're STILL talking about this? |
| 19:55.49 | markl_ | the problem is that it's tough to discuss real issues |
| 19:55.56 | rsimpkins | markl_: Most of us would fail. :( |
| 19:56.08 | TodPunk | can't we go back to making fun of Stallman? |
| 19:56.11 | markl_ | rsimpkins: it's short and there is a good wikipedia summary |
| 19:56.12 | rsimpkins | TodPunk: yes. |
| 19:56.33 | TehLaser | Vermont's state constitution is a bit more explicit about gun rights. |
| 19:58.07 | TehLaser | It also happens to have an explicit right *not* to bear arms too. |
| 19:59.07 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq_ (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 19:59.08 | TehLaser | "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State..." and "nor can any person who is conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms, be justly compelled thereto" |
| 19:59.47 | TehLaser | (so long as you're willing to pay a tax in lieu of militia service, anyhow) |
| 20:03.10 | JoshH | we should all be given government issue m16's when we turn 14, and be required to carry them everywhere we go |
| 20:04.03 | pashdown | all disputes to be resolved with bullets. like they do in somalia! |
| 20:04.42 | TehLaser | Didn't somewhere in Utah try that a while back? |
| 20:04.50 | TehLaser | Required all households to own a gun? |
| 20:05.11 | pashdown | i think that was that town down by zion |
| 20:05.12 | JoshH | sounds familiar, maybe la verkin or kanab or something |
| 20:05.43 | rsimpkins | La Verkin, it is by hurricane. |
| 20:05.47 | JoshH | i wonder how many obama bumper stickers there are in la verkin |
| 20:05.47 | TehLaser | laverkin was the un-free zone, I think. |
| 20:05.54 | *** part/#utah obiyoda (~obiyoda@67.214.253.190) |
| 20:05.57 | rsimpkins | Her-Eh-Khan |
| 20:06.33 | rsimpkins | Yeah, they did the whole no UN here thing. |
| 20:07.23 | TehLaser | Ah, it was "Virgin, UT" that required them. |
| 20:14.20 | sjansen | KHAAAANN! |
| 20:15.32 | *** join/#utah PigeonCluster (~blendmast@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 20:17.31 | rsimpkins | sjansen: I'm going to zap you with an electified moon crater. |
| 20:17.34 | rsimpkins | http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20100427/sc_space/somecratersonthemoonmaybeelectrified |
| 20:21.05 | Gate | La Verikin is where the seperatists, it was Virgin, which is closer to Zion, which had the requirement to own a gun |
| 20:21.18 | Gate | that requirement got tossed out by the state due to the preemption law |
| 20:22.09 | Gate | s/verikin/Verkin/gi |
| 20:26.07 | fungus | I'd rather live in SL,UT than Virgin |
| 20:27.34 | JoshH | i wonder how rich the guy that made those tshirts is |
| 20:28.06 | Migs | that made me lol, fungus |
| 20:29.29 | stderr | JoshH: they have a shop in the Gateway so presumably fairly rich |
| 20:30.32 | Migs | What's a good wireless mic that can clip on your lapel? Preferably under $100 |
| 20:32.13 | *** join/#utah badon (q@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) |
| 20:33.57 | Migs | I suppose it would need a receiver, too |
| 20:42.41 | goozbach | fungus: is that the same guy with the t-shirt "Heck is a place for people who don't believe in Gosh"? |
| 20:43.18 | fungus | hehe, not sure. but that's fun too. |
| 20:45.12 | rsimpkins | Migs: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/lavalier-microphone-wireless-systems-pro-audio?N=100001+344234&Ns=P_Price%7c0&rpp=20 |
| 20:45.23 | rsimpkins | Migs: Honestly, a 'good' system will set you back a few hundred. |
| 20:48.50 | Migs | that's what I thought |
| 20:49.24 | Migs | not the best brands there, unfortunately |
| 20:50.14 | rsimpkins | Migs: What is the application? |
| 20:50.15 | rsimpkins | Conference? Stage? Speaking? Music? |
| 20:53.03 | Migs | classroom |
| 20:53.14 | rsimpkins | A cheapy will probably be okay then. |
| 20:53.20 | Migs | My wife's friend who's a teacher in one of our elementary schools has some extra money she needs to spend |
| 20:53.30 | rsimpkins | wha? |
| 20:53.43 | rsimpkins | I'm not going to ask. ;) |
| 20:56.37 | Migs | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8645847.stm |
| 21:00.27 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (~sinuhe@kaptah.deevans.net) |
| 21:00.50 | rsimpkins | http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/2009/December/091202/091203-engel-big-9a.jpg |
| 21:24.43 | TodPunk | calculating hashes on 10 gig files is a long wait. |
| 21:25.24 | *** join/#utah CSJewell2 (~CSJewell@74.36.8.243) |
| 21:55.19 | sjansen | Ha! I'm so funny! |
| 21:55.31 | sjansen | makes even himself lol |
| 21:56.01 | Migs | self-loling is awesome |
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| 22:00.51 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@53.250.sfcn.org) |
| 22:21.34 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (~blendmast@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 22:59.29 | eightyeight | did sjansen just lol? |
| 22:59.56 | TodPunk | in a manner of speaking |
| 23:02.27 | eightyeight | i thought he was older than that |
| 23:03.17 | fozzmoo | goozbach: ping |
| 23:03.44 | TodPunk | goes far, far away for a bit |
| 23:04.28 | sjansen | eightyeight: It was an ironic lol. |
| 23:04.39 | eightyeight | ah |
| 23:05.31 | eightyeight | you never took me to be one of the bubble-gum chewing texting type |
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