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| 15:47.09 | sjansen | http://www.thinq.co.uk/comment/2010/4/20/gizmodo-blows-whistle-on-iphone-loser/ |
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| 16:12.46 | Gate | I can just imagine Job's witch hunt now |
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| 16:17.09 | TodPunk | I agree putting the guy's name out there was pretty odd and possibly dumb. I don't know as it will kill his entire career. I am pretty sure Steve Job's is in a tiffy about the whole thing, but the man has no concept of reality, so I'm not surprised when he throws a tantrum when he doesn't have his way. |
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| 16:18.44 | levi` | I doubt that the name was news to Jobs. |
| 16:19.40 | bonez2046 | is there a way in linux to see if the system recognizes the ECP port working, or not? |
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| 16:26.28 | tensai | sjansen: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html |
| 16:28.00 | sjansen | It probably won't ruin his career, but it'll make alot of job interviews more uncomfortable. Posting it was just plain mean spirited. But what do you expect from a company that knowingly buys stolen property? |
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| 16:45.06 | bonez2046 | where can I find an XSANE channel? I checked #xsane already, . no one in that, not a channel yet |
| 16:45.20 | eightyeight | is it still actively developed? |
| 16:53.02 | sjansen | Nah, these's days everyone is using yINSANE instead. |
| 16:56.13 | bonez2046 | sjansen: huh? what is yINSANE? |
| 16:56.45 | sjansen | ~dict red herring |
| 16:59.17 | macnewbold | ~red herring |
| 16:59.28 | macnewbold | ~define red herring |
| 16:59.29 | ibot | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 16:59.33 | macnewbold | ~google red herring |
| 16:59.36 | macnewbold | ~wiki red herring |
| 16:59.56 | eightyeight | ibot: you're far too verbose |
| 17:08.05 | nobell | I hope the new iphone was real. I could really use one of those. |
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| 17:14.27 | sjansen | Man, I hate the SUSE installer. |
| 17:18.31 | elg | s/installer/*/ |
| 17:19.35 | elg | hmmm |
| 17:20.10 | elg | do I take advantage of the fact that it's been 4 days since I did any work and tend to my badly-neglected inbox |
| 17:20.25 | elg | or dive back into work and neglect my inbox for at least another week? |
| 17:22.31 | TodPunk | elg, how important is communicating to you? |
| 17:23.10 | elg | rather. I guess I should mention that I have already dealt with the urgent stuff as it came in |
| 17:23.47 | TodPunk | I'd run through the inbox. The bigger it gets, the less likely you'll be to attend to it properly in the future. |
| 17:23.47 | elg | what's left is the "I should read this and grok it" and "I should do this really boring bookworky thing" and "I should file this away for reference" stuff. |
| 17:24.10 | elg | yeah. I like to keep it in tip top shape |
| 17:24.36 | elg | another part would be fixing my filter rules too |
| 17:24.51 | elg | but i have to do that in IE in vmware so it's kind of a pain |
| 17:25.24 | elg | (i could filter in my client but then everything would end up on my phone's inbox and that would suck.) |
| 17:29.56 | elg | and of course this would all lead to cleaning my desktops and checking on disk space and backups and then maybe my music and photo collections and then making sure I have all the right apps on my phone and all arragned in an optimally useful pattern |
| 17:30.08 | elg | and writing a few blog posts I've been putting off... |
| 17:30.12 | elg | a slippery slope, see? |
| 17:32.19 | sjansen | Clearly the only answer is to put together a group of coworkers and go out for ice cream. |
| 17:38.10 | goozbach | ice cream!? |
| 17:38.12 | goozbach | I'm in |
| 17:38.19 | goozbach | emcnabb: got yer ears on? |
| 17:38.28 | elg | lisa tore them off |
| 17:38.49 | elg | you can call him emcvogh now |
| 17:39.00 | goozbach | ahh |
| 17:39.09 | elg | er, mcgogh |
| 17:39.14 | elg | though mcvogh does sound cooler. |
| 17:41.08 | emcnabb | goozbach, elg huh? |
| 17:41.13 | emcnabb | what did I do this time? |
| 17:42.11 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 17:42.11 | ibot | raises middle finger to elg |
| 17:42.15 | emcnabb | ~lart goozbach |
| 17:42.15 | ibot | teaches goozbach the basics, including how to RTM |
| 17:43.47 | goozbach | what the lart for |
| 17:47.43 | emcnabb | goozbach, just in the mood |
| 17:48.01 | goozbach | ahh ok |
| 17:48.09 | goozbach | lart acknoleged |
| 19:28.45 | sjansen | http://valleywag.gawker.com/5520339/mac-genius-slams-his-google-job |
| 19:29.18 | sjansen | Requiring Ken Thompson to prove he knows C. Wow. Tragic. |
| 19:31.30 | goozbach | that's something, no? |
| 19:34.00 | levi | Well, it was a long time ago, and he's getting old. Maybe he's forgotten? ;) |
| 19:39.30 | TodPunk | Reason #481 why I will never work at Google |
| 19:42.44 | sjansen | ~flay autoyast |
| 19:42.55 | unum | for $targetgroup_ref ( sort { $b->{'punches'} <=> $a->{'punches'} } %quotagroup ) { |
| 19:42.59 | unum | is that valid? |
| 19:43.21 | levi | Reason #1 why TodPunk will never work at Google: They won't hire him. ;) |
| 19:43.42 | TodPunk | levi, I'm hoping we never find that out. The truth would hurt too much. But yes, that's probably reason 1. |
| 19:44.01 | sjansen | unum: I don't think you can sort a dictionary. |
| 19:44.22 | TodPunk | I know a couple guys that have worked at google. One went to MS and likes it there a lot more. I like their internal processes a lot more than google's from what I've heard. |
| 19:44.34 | rsimpkins | Someone tell me they have a slide deck ready to go explaining why sjansen is a marxist - because PLUG needs a presentation for May. |
| 19:44.56 | TodPunk | could probably whip one up |
| 19:45.03 | TodPunk | does it need to be factual? |
| 19:45.32 | rsimpkins | TodPunk: Apparently all you have to do to make something factual is scream a lot - and relate it to Nazi Germany. |
| 19:45.51 | emcnabb | rsimpkins, I'd fly out to Utah to present it |
| 19:45.56 | TodPunk | No, you have to shy away from hitler to avoid Godwin. Instead you compare to Italian fascism. |
| 19:46.41 | rsimpkins | emcnabb: Until we have the USA Airlines federally opperated and owned, no flying for anyone. |
| 19:46.54 | emcnabb | ha |
| 19:47.12 | rsimpkins | Hey - everyone deserves the right to fly. |
| 19:47.23 | rsimpkins | It is in the constitution. I'm sure of it. |
| 19:47.39 | TodPunk | Who are you to decide what rights we deserve? |
| 19:47.55 | TodPunk | (Let me know when we get to Act II) |
| 19:48.15 | rsimpkins | TodPunk: I'm not going to go there. ;-) |
| 19:48.20 | sjansen | unum: http://pastebin.com/RNDREFeC |
| 19:48.21 | goozbach | that's a right I could get behind |
| 19:48.26 | goozbach | flight for everyone! |
| 19:48.55 | TodPunk | So, seriously, rsimpkins, are you looking for possible topics or something? |
| 19:49.00 | rsimpkins | Yup. |
| 19:49.56 | unum | sjansen: thanks |
| 19:50.19 | TodPunk | How about: "The business of Open Source, or: What Every Project Should Know About its own Goals" where we could highlight such projects as Postgres or FreeSWITCH and how they have not achieved market penetration because of their lack of focus on users and relating to the masses? |
| 19:50.49 | emcnabb | rsimpkins, I still think it should relate to mocking sjansen |
| 19:51.16 | TodPunk | we could mock Marxism and how it doesn't achieve market penetration despite sjansen's efforts... |
| 19:51.41 | levi | It would be much more fun if sjansen was there in person to mock. |
| 19:51.48 | sjansen | Ah, but I'm not a Marxist. |
| 19:51.57 | TodPunk | sjansen, lies and propaganda |
| 19:52.00 | sjansen | I'm a social libertarian. |
| 19:52.34 | levi | That has 'social' in the name, so of course it's an evil Marxist plot in disguise. |
| 19:52.43 | levi | I'll bet you thought you could fool us. |
| 19:52.55 | emcnabb | sjansen, you are not social. more anti-social |
| 19:53.09 | sjansen | No, not you levi. I was hoping you'd go back to being productive before you noticed. |
| 19:53.24 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Don't try to trick us with your sorcerer ways. We all know what you... ahckkck asdkkkk ajc.... |
| 19:55.49 | TodPunk | <insert obligatory comment about lack of faith and disturbing> |
| 19:56.45 | rsimpkins | *caugh* *gasp* |
| 19:57.00 | rsimpkins | Yes Lord sjansen, I will do your bidding. |
| 19:57.05 | jsmith-teaching | would argue that Postgres has much more penetration than most people realize |
| 19:57.11 | rsimpkins | Or should I call you Darth sjansen? |
| 19:57.25 | jsmith-teaching | But then again, what do I know? |
| 19:57.33 | sjansen | If I'm Vader, that makes y'all rebels and therefore terrorists and therefore I'm right and you're wrong. |
| 19:57.42 | sjansen | But then we all knew that already, didn't we? |
| 19:57.56 | goozbach | vader was a wimp anyhow |
| 19:57.58 | fozzmoo | jsmith-teaching: Hee hee. You said "penetration." |
| 19:58.21 | goozbach | "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" |
| 19:58.24 | goozbach | come on |
| 19:58.40 | sjansen | *shrug* Either way I still sounds like James Earl Jones. |
| 19:58.48 | goozbach | kill some fuzzy teddy bears, spin on your heel, and storm off |
| 20:00.05 | TodPunk | jsmith-teaching, I would accept your point that it is USED in a lot more places than people realize, but that doesn't mean the market recognizes it any more or less. Technical qualifications matter to us, but techies need to realize there's more to a project than just really good code (and sometimes documentation). |
| 20:00.37 | sjansen | Spoken like a true Windows user. |
| 20:01.38 | sjansen | Anyone who wants to is free to build a career around technically inferior popular technologies. Just don't expect me to change any of my decisions based on a popularity contest. |
| 20:02.07 | sjansen | Friends don't let friends use PHP. |
| 20:02.59 | fozzmoo | Unless they're sadistic friends... |
| 20:03.07 | fozzmoo | "Oh, that's easy in PHP." |
| 20:03.17 | fozzmoo | (*snickers*) |
| 20:03.33 | TodPunk | sjansen, again, that's great for you, but doesn't help businesses without technical savvy or users with tech savvy that work for bosses that don't respect such opinions. The idea that technological superiority is all you need is, in all actuality, the reason the problem exists in the first place. |
| 20:04.30 | TodPunk | "work for someone who respects your opinion" is not always an option in the real world. |
| 20:04.31 | levi | Love is all you need, maaan. |
| 20:06.23 | TodPunk | I think the selling point is that it is counter-intuitive to the projects goals, more often than not, to ignore those other priorities in a project. A few projects specifically WANT to ignore those priorities, to avoid the user cruft it brings. |
| 20:17.21 | rsimpkins | Figuring out why something like MySQL is popular is sort of like figure out why Justing Bieber is on the cover of People Magazine. |
| 20:17.56 | rsimpkins | Bieber Fever? Do you got it? |
| 20:18.45 | rsimpkins | I'm going to stop trying to type with lotion on my fingers..... come on - stop spraying me what that hose sjansen. |
| 20:18.55 | rsimpkins | see, sheesh. |
| 20:19.09 | sjansen | *shrug* "Be awesome enough that you can pick and choose your jobs, only working for people who respect your opinion" has worked pretty well for me so far. |
| 20:19.29 | elg | ~respect sjansen |
| 20:19.33 | levi | sjansen: If only we could all be so awesome. :) |
| 20:20.59 | sjansen | levi: As it happens, for a low LOW introductory price of just... |
| 20:21.45 | TodPunk | The idea that there is a bar which you cross at some point to become "awesome enough" is a fallacy. If all of us were "that awesome" there would still be an almost equal percentage of employees that were not respected. Closer to the truth is that some percentile of those with higher /perceived/ value get respected. Not to mention the perceived value with the ability to coexist with such employers. |
| 20:21.50 | rsimpkins | sjansen: So, is the name of your presentation in May: "Be Like Me, I'm Awesome: A Megalomania How-To"? |
| 20:22.23 | elg | megalomaniacs don't give how-tos |
| 20:22.29 | elg | they give goals. you figure out how. |
| 20:22.56 | elg | "Be like me, I'm awesome. A megolomaniacal inspirational tale." |
| 20:22.57 | levi | Perceptions of awesomeness usually have more to do with the person's attitude and bearing than their actual technical skill. |
| 20:23.02 | TodPunk | "If you're good enough, you'll figure it out." |
| 20:23.12 | TodPunk | levi, exactly |
| 20:23.38 | rsimpkins | levi: I can't tell if that was an underhanded insult, or a wise observation. :( |
| 20:23.42 | levi | But that just means you need to focus on other things than technical awesomeness to get your views respected. |
| 20:23.54 | levi | If you're just honing your coding skills, you're doing it wrong. |
| 20:24.02 | TodPunk | much like a projects perceived value has more to do with their presentation and their relationship to their userbase than technical superiority. If it WORKS, however poorly, as advertised, that's all the tech you need in a project, open source or not. |
| 20:24.18 | sjansen | wise observation |
| 20:24.50 | elg | sjansen: thank you |
| 20:24.59 | rsimpkins | What, you're all saying the same thing? I'm going to start to cry. |
| 20:25.21 | levi | rsimpkins: Be quiet, you Marxist. |
| 20:25.40 | rsimpkins | "See this triangle? It really wants to be a square. See this square? It has been a triangle all along." |
| 20:25.54 | TodPunk | "I just had to believe in itself" |
| 20:26.20 | TodPunk | "(and go on a wacky adventure with a kid who everyone thought was crazy but really was just spot on with the truth of this heartfelt need we all had)" |
| 20:26.35 | goozbach | let's not forget the orgy! |
| 20:26.50 | levi | Like I said earlier, all you need is love. |
| 20:26.59 | goozbach | .... oh are you guys talking about a different book/story...? |
| 20:27.00 | levi | (of yourself) |
| 20:27.04 | goozbach | never mind |
| 20:34.20 | Migs | orgy? |
| 20:35.19 | fungus | what, what? did I miss something?? |
| 20:35.25 | Migs | that's what I'm wondering |
| 20:35.36 | fungus | is really disappointed |
| 20:38.50 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland |
| 20:40.00 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Reviewing the history, TodPunk and I definitely weren't saying the same thing. His position is getting paid, even if the work sucks, is most important. My position is that I don't want to do work that sucks. |
| 20:40.30 | TodPunk | sjansen, I never mentioned pay |
| 20:40.33 | sjansen | Thankfully, my experience is that most of the sucky work pays worse than work requiring more skill. |
| 20:40.35 | Migs | Why not have work that's great and pays well? |
| 20:40.44 | Migs | yeah same here, sjansen |
| 20:40.56 | Migs | I've worked grunt jobs before that paid squat, same as everyone else |
| 20:41.02 | TodPunk | I think the pay should be related to what you DO, not how much you enjoy it. |
| 20:41.11 | TodPunk | enjoyment is your own problem, in my opinion |
| 20:41.18 | sjansen | Exactly. |
| 20:41.24 | Migs | well, I refuse to have a job I don't enjoy |
| 20:41.39 | Migs | Nothing's dumber than people complaining about how much their hate their jobs. If you hate your job, get another one. Problem solved. |
| 20:41.42 | elg | well, I refuse to enjoy a job I don't have. |
| 20:41.43 | TodPunk | I refuse to let my kids starve. Enjoying my job is a bit lower on the priority list =cP |
| 20:41.50 | sjansen | And as such, I choose to take control of my life and focus on enjoying myself 90% of the time, even if I risk passing on 75% of jobs I'm offered. |
| 20:42.50 | sjansen | There is very little danger of a financial careful, technically skilled worker coming anywhere near starvation. |
| 20:43.01 | sjansen | At least in this country. |
| 20:43.22 | Migs | yeah |
| 20:43.26 | Migs | even moreso in the Utah area |
| 20:43.27 | TodPunk | The problem with sjansen's sentiment is that the ideals he present can NOT work for everyone. It might, with a lot of coordination and cultural change, work for all techies. Everyone else is then probably screwed, and a lot of markets would have to close down for lack of interest from technically savvy people. |
| 20:43.39 | Migs | Salt Lake City has the #2 job market in the country right now, according to Forbes |
| 20:43.51 | eightyeight | sjansen: why do you hate the suse installer (a bit delayed...) |
| 20:43.56 | goozbach | by raise of hands how many of you work with computers becuase you like it |
| 20:44.03 | goozbach | eightyeight: because it's suse |
| 20:44.07 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:44.09 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:44.15 | eightyeight | i would hope there's more to it than that |
| 20:44.16 | sjansen | Now if you include not being able to buy your son a muscle car for high school, sure it might be more important to take every opportunity offered. But I don't rank that among my priorities. |
| 20:44.19 | elg | goozbach: stop pretending you can see me |
| 20:44.23 | elg | this isn't skype |
| 20:44.29 | TodPunk | sjansen, neither do I |
| 20:45.02 | goozbach | elg: but I can see you |
| 20:45.02 | elg | my son is about as likely to get a muscle car from me as I am to get muscle. |
| 20:45.08 | goozbach | stop picking your nose |
| 20:45.16 | elg | you started it |
| 20:45.26 | sjansen | eightyeight: Because the autoyast documentation is like play hide and seek. Sure, it's theoretically more powerful than Anaconda, but it sure is harder to convince YaST to do what I want. |
| 20:45.32 | goozbach | that's not a nice finger |
| 20:45.54 | eightyeight | sjansen: ah, so it's autoyast that you really hate, rather than the installer itself |
| 20:46.14 | TodPunk | but even YOUR employability has less to do with your actual skill and more to do with your presentation of that skill. If you interviewed like you talk, which I'm sure you don't, your options would be rather limited because that sort of "megalomania" as some have put it (I think inaccurately) doesn't fly with most employers, even those that are awesome to work with. |
| 20:46.18 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.132.42) |
| 20:46.39 | eightyeight | ~summon sshaw when talking about suse |
| 20:46.40 | ibot | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing sshaw when talking about suse's coordinates |
| 20:46.59 | sjansen | Mostly. I do think that YaST's general complexity compared to RH and Ubuntu is a symptom of SUSE's culture. (At least in Germany.) |
| 20:47.05 | Migs | when you already know you're the best candidate for a job, interviewing is easy |
| 20:47.29 | sjansen | TodPunk: You don't like me, do you? |
| 20:47.41 | sjansen | Ah well, no skin off my nose. |
| 20:47.41 | eightyeight | sjansen: preseed is in a league all its own. you think autoyast is a pain... |
| 20:48.18 | goozbach | preseed is evil! |
| 20:48.23 | goozbach | EEEEEEEEVILLLLLL! |
| 20:48.28 | Migs | I may not be a genius, but I'm definitely smarter than everyone else on Earth combined |
| 20:48.30 | eightyeight | now, fai on the other hand. that's a decent auto-installer worth using for debian systems |
| 20:48.33 | eightyeight | goozbach: +1 |
| 20:48.34 | TodPunk | sjansen, I don't know you enough to form such an opinion. I think your viewpoints differ from mine, but that's hardly cause for disgust. In that regard, I like you because you make me think about my position. So far, that's the extent of our relationship. |
| 20:48.55 | goozbach | that was dissapointment |
| 20:49.06 | goozbach | I follow the string "puppet" on identica |
| 20:49.36 | goozbach | and an update came through just a minute ago saying "build your own trash-can puppet" |
| 20:49.42 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:49.59 | goozbach | I thought they were talking about something like Push the talking trashcan at Disneyland |
| 20:50.11 | sjansen | TodPunk: No, no you've already said I'm unemployable. You'd rather swallow broken glass that work on a team with me. I'm the third reincarnation of Stalin and I suck all the joy out of the world. |
| 20:50.15 | goozbach | nope it's just the normal kind of puppet made of scrap felt |
| 20:50.16 | sjansen | I can live with that. ;-) |
| 20:50.17 | goozbach | :( |
| 20:51.18 | TodPunk | sjansen, I would avoid putting extremes in your restatement of points. I didn't say you were unemployable. I said IF you interviewed like you talk in here and the mailing list, which I'm sure you DON'T, you would have a /harder time/ finding a job, not an impossible time. |
| 20:52.53 | emcnabb | TodPunk, actually sjansen is an unemployed bum. he's currently writing this from his dumpster home |
| 20:53.02 | sjansen | No use backpedaling. This channel is logged. Your statements comparing me with Pol Pot and Richard Simmons have already been immortalized. |
| 20:53.05 | TodPunk | emcnabb, I thought he worked for Guru labs. |
| 20:53.11 | emcnabb | oh yeah |
| 20:53.47 | TodPunk | sjansen, which Richard Simmons? |
| 20:54.11 | sjansen | Hey, I didn't say I understood it. I just said your statements were logged. |
| 20:54.31 | emcnabb | I forgot :-) |
| 20:54.32 | rsimpkins | sjansen: my take is that you're saying the same thing: Doing great work isn't enough. You have to constantly remind everyone how great it is. ;-) |
| 20:54.32 | emcnabb | I've known sjansen for 10 years now. 10. long. long. years. |
| 20:55.07 | sjansen | [14:44] <TodPunk> sjansen: You're like a scary, extreme version of Richard Simmons. |
| 20:55.29 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 20:55.31 | TodPunk | It's true, that's what I said. Totally and factually. |
| 20:55.34 | sjansen | [14:46] <TodPunk> sjansen: Although, to be fair, with the beard you also kinda remind me of Santa Claus. |
| 20:55.54 | TodPunk | was thinking of the exercise dude, though |
| 20:56.18 | rsimpkins | [14:47] <sjansen> Do I have to wear green tights? |
| 20:57.01 | TodPunk | [14:47] <sjansen> (Because mine are all red) |
| 20:58.00 | sjansen | Now I'm tempted to present for Plug just so I can show up in red tights. |
| 20:58.06 | rsimpkins | [14:48] <TodPunk> It is okay, you can borrow some of mine. |
| 20:58.12 | TodPunk | xD |
| 21:01.22 | elg | harleypig will be your sidekick. |
| 21:02.54 | emcnabb | oh my, please no |
| 21:02.57 | sjansen | knew it was only matter of time before harley got dragged into the conversation |
| 21:04.29 | elg | ~miss harleypig |
| 21:04.29 | ibot | ACTION whips a six shooter from her hip and fires just to the right of harleypig. |
| 21:04.54 | rsimpkins | What are the meeting ideas again? |
| 21:05.01 | TodPunk | ibot is a girl now? |
| 21:05.06 | elg | ~gender |
| 21:05.07 | ibot | I'm lesbian |
| 21:05.09 | rsimpkins | - "Why everyone thinks your project sucks, even when it doesn't" |
| 21:05.17 | TodPunk | wow |
| 21:05.20 | TodPunk | that's a harsh title |
| 21:05.24 | TodPunk | but I'm ok with it |
| 21:05.24 | rsimpkins | lol :) |
| 21:05.24 | elg | - "Why your car doesn't work" |
| 21:05.41 | elg | ooh ooh I know: |
| 21:06.06 | rsimpkins | and, "How to be more awesome by thinking awesome" or something like that. |
| 21:06.07 | sjansen | - "Why we can't have nice things" |
| 21:06.13 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 21:06.17 | elg | - "How to write a simple data application without using Access" |
| 21:06.40 | elg | that's always good for at least a dozen flame wars. |
| 21:06.51 | elg | and no answers. |
| 21:06.58 | eightyeight | wait.. i thought excel was all that was needed |
| 21:07.01 | elg | although it's a bit misstated, since nobody uses access anyway. |
| 21:07.03 | rsimpkins | elg: The side thread will be about how PHP fits the bill. |
| 21:08.17 | TodPunk | Something involving HTPCs? |
| 21:08.38 | rsimpkins | How about "Marketing Basics for Geeks"? |
| 21:08.50 | TodPunk | k |
| 21:08.52 | rsimpkins | I always run in to geeks that could use better advertising. |
| 21:09.12 | TodPunk | Hell, most businesses could use better advertising. |
| 21:09.15 | rsimpkins | I can tell you from my experience, SPAM does in fact work. |
| 21:09.29 | TodPunk | if it didn't, it wouldn't be done anymore now would it. |
| 21:10.13 | TodPunk | debates going home and playing with Tomcat |
| 21:10.40 | rsimpkins | So, slide 1) spam works! 2) use pretty pictures 3) write a jingle, go far 4) poster power ...? |
| 21:11.08 | rsimpkins | 5) lack facts? print it out |
| 21:11.21 | eightyeight | 6) quantify the unquantifiable |
| 21:11.58 | rsimpkins | 7) made up testimonials for dummies |
| 21:12.22 | sjansen | By the same argument, being a geeks works or there wouldn't be any anymore either. |
| 21:12.39 | TodPunk | I think it boils down to knowing your audience and presenting in a way that speaks to them. Those ways are many and mostly medium dependent. |
| 21:12.45 | TodPunk | Follow into examples. lots of them. |
| 21:13.05 | TodPunk | Close with a note about not using popular songs with your own lyrics in bad radio ads. |
| 21:13.24 | rsimpkins | yeah, closing slide) parodies are always wrong |
| 21:14.12 | TodPunk | they're good short term investments, but they kill your brand with a wider audience |
| 21:14.50 | rsimpkins | We have loads of marketing experts in this building. I bet I could find one to talk to geeks. |
| 21:16.02 | TodPunk | My Dad has been in marketing for nigh unto 20 years now. If he's in town that night, I'm sure he'd be willing. He's quite the public speaker as well. As much as it will embarrass me to be associated with him... |
| 21:16.12 | sjansen | What? Parodies are always AWESOME! |
| 21:16.23 | TodPunk | now you're just being contradictory |
| 21:16.41 | rsimpkins | No he isn't. |
| 21:16.52 | sjansen | Everything I need to know I learned from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. |
| 21:17.45 | TodPunk | words to live by |
| 21:18.55 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Hot babes from England make good bandmates? what exactly did you learn? |
| 21:19.17 | eightyeight | that time machines will be in the form of telephone boths |
| 21:19.17 | TodPunk | What can you NOT learn from Bill and Ted? |
| 21:19.20 | eightyeight | *booths |
| 21:19.35 | TodPunk | <insert quip about booth babes> |
| 21:20.07 | eightyeight | and san dimas, ca will have more waterparks than any other planet we communicate with. bowling averages will be up, and mini golf averages down |
| 21:20.15 | sjansen | First and foremost: Be _excellent_ to one another! |
| 21:20.47 | TodPunk | Every rose has its thorn. |
| 21:20.52 | rsimpkins | eightyeight: that water park they filmed at is in Mesa Arizona. It is called Golf Land. My cousin is one of the lifeguards in the movie (they used real LG). |
| 21:20.52 | TodPunk | Wait, that's the second one... |
| 21:20.54 | TodPunk | FAIL |
| 21:21.02 | eightyeight | rsimpkins: nice |
| 21:21.27 | rsimpkins | eightyeight: I've spent many an hour at golfland, they used to have a huge 2 story arcade building, where all the games were 0.25. |
| 21:21.40 | eightyeight | my only claim to fame is three 'o clock high |
| 21:22.09 | TodPunk | I used to work at the Golf Land in San Jose, CA when I was a teen. |
| 21:22.14 | TodPunk | Oh the adventures. |
| 21:22.17 | eightyeight | not only did it shoot here in ogden, ut, but an older cousin was an extra in it |
| 21:22.42 | rsimpkins | TodPunk: That's cool. |
| 21:23.05 | sjansen | Actually, I lie. Most of what I know I learned from John Hughes. |
| 21:23.11 | TodPunk | rsimpkins, depends on the crowd =cP |
| 21:23.20 | eightyeight | sjansen: john hughes or john hedges? |
| 21:23.35 | TodPunk | John Travolta? |
| 21:23.51 | eightyeight | s/hedges/hodgman/ |
| 21:23.53 | eightyeight | meh |
| 21:24.18 | TodPunk | leaves for home! |
| 21:29.34 | sjansen | John Hughes died last year. :-( |
| 21:29.39 | sjansen | I'm so sad. |
| 21:43.17 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (~blendmast@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 22:04.38 | *** join/#utah ldav15 (~ldav15@67.214.231.154) |
| 22:48.42 | *** join/#utah badon (~q@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) |
| 23:02.49 | Supaplex | oi |
| 23:04.15 | sjansen | Tudo bem? |
| 23:04.19 | blendmaster1024 | io |
| 23:04.47 | Supaplex | just seeing who's alive in here. :) |
| 23:06.21 | jsmith | sjansen: Speaking of which... guess where I'm going next month :-p |
| 23:06.46 | blendmaster1024 | wonders what's happening next month |
| 23:06.46 | Supaplex | jsmith: Nashville |
| 23:07.11 | blendmaster1024 | bashes in his screen - stupid python, just work right! |
| 23:07.37 | jsmith | Supaplex: Try again... |
| 23:08.05 | Supaplex | jsmith: well, I do on Saturday. |
| 23:08.56 | jsmith | Supaplex: I'll be headed back to Virginia on Saturday |
| 23:09.44 | Supaplex | ahh I was there two weeks ago |
| 23:10.08 | Supaplex | in Herndon |
| 23:10.11 | sjansen | jsmith: Brasil? |
| 23:10.38 | Supaplex | Aubudaoubie? |
| 23:13.57 | markl_ | my hovercraft is full of eels |
| 23:15.25 | jsmith | sjansen: Yup... they twisted my arm and are sending me to Brazil for ten days to teach a class |
| 23:16.08 | *** join/#utah obiyoda (~obiyoda@67.214.253.190) |
| 23:16.44 | jsmith | sjansen: It's too bad the TSA won't let me bring you back some good guarana, etc. |
| 23:21.19 | Supaplex | they want it all for their own. right? |
| 23:22.04 | sjansen | But they will let you bring a weeks worth of camisas da seleção. |
| 23:23.19 | jsmith | sjansen: I'm not sure what that is |
| 23:23.33 | jsmith | sjansen: "select shirts"? |
| 23:24.50 | sjansen | http://www.roxosedoentes.com.br/loja/produto-21150-camisa-i-nike-brasil-2010-sn2A.aspx |
| 23:26.26 | tensai | jsmith: doesn't matter too much, just buy a whole bunch and get photos of you consuming all of it. hilarity will then ensue. |
| 23:27.05 | jsmith | tensai: Especially if I'm wearing sjansen's soccer jersey. |
| 23:28.43 | sjansen | It's not a soccer jersey! It's a camisa da seleção, you heathen! |
| 23:37.30 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@c-76-27-51-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:40.38 | jsmith | sjansen: OK... I'll bite. What's the difference? |
| 23:46.31 | TodPunk | jsmith: one you buy in Brazil |
| 23:48.48 | sjansen | jsmith: Poetry, man, poetry! |