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| 03:44.36 | mgeary | anyone here with some C knowledge have a minute to look at some code? |
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| 05:01.12 | Gate | aaah, airport security. |
| 05:01.43 | Gate | mgeary: actually, I do |
| 05:01.49 | Gate | if you still need the help |
| 05:01.56 | RyanE | Gate: you at the airport tonight? |
| 05:02.05 | Gate | but be quick, my flight will be boarding in 30m or so |
| 05:02.06 | Gate | yes |
| 05:02.15 | RyanE | I came home tonight. was glad to see SLC Int'l... :) |
| 05:02.22 | mgeary | Gate: i think i may have cobbled it together |
| 05:02.25 | mgeary | but thank you |
| 05:02.30 | Gate | :) too bad I am at McCarren int'l |
| 05:02.40 | RyanE | That's where I came in from. :) |
| 05:02.40 | Gate | np :D |
| 05:02.43 | Gate | hahaha |
| 05:03.02 | RyanE | 6pm flight to SLC |
| 05:03.06 | Gate | Vegas is less than a 2 hour drive from where I live |
| 05:03.14 | Gate | and I am flying to NYC |
| 05:03.19 | RyanE | blech |
| 05:03.22 | RyanE | red eye to NYC is no fun |
| 05:03.51 | Gate | I am going to have a very redbull/monster feulled day tomorro |
| 05:04.16 | Gate | hm, no meal service. (not that airline food is any good). |
| 05:04.32 | Gate | cheap bastards |
| 05:05.58 | Gate | RyanE: you do a lot of travelling? |
| 05:06.36 | RyanE | nope, but a lot lately |
| 05:07.50 | RyanE | From CEDIA last September in Atlanta, I've been to Vegas twice, Dallas, CA in a few weeks, and maybe an asia trip coming up shortly. |
| 05:08.07 | Gate | cool |
| 05:08.53 | Gate | well, I am going to kill my laptop for boarding. No reason to waste battery until I am in the air. |
| 05:08.56 | Gate | Adieu |
| 05:09.05 | RyanE | tchau. |
| 05:09.09 | RyanE | good trip. |
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| 11:07.16 | Gate | wow, that plane was a flying sardine can with insufficient AC |
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| 15:49.54 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 15:49.54 | ibot | explains, ever so gently, that if elg doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
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| 15:59.46 | sjansen | http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2010/03/a-beautiful-expression-of-frustration/ |
| 16:01.45 | sjansen | http://planet.gnome.org/ |
| 16:02.20 | sjansen | Is some deliberately targeting GNOME developer's to get their accounts banned? What would be the point? |
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| 16:32.07 | Jayce^ | harleypig's next project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qBFNaA7u1E |
| 16:50.27 | harleypig | does anyone know how a file in the /proc directory should be created? |
| 16:55.00 | fugue88 | Make sure your kernel supports the feature that exports the virtual file that you want. ??? |
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| 16:55.47 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | http://planet.utos.org/ | The cake is a lie. |
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| 16:58.35 | harleypig | fugue88: it's a weird situation, the file is being modified from a perl script, but I can't find how it's being created anywhere. |
| 17:01.36 | fugue88 | Normally, you don't create files in /proc; they're pretend, put there by the kernel or modules. |
| 17:01.47 | fugue88 | What file |
| 17:01.48 | fugue88 | ? |
| 17:03.28 | sjansen | just found out about Obama and Netanyahu |
| 17:03.49 | sjansen | Gotta say, it made me laugh. |
| 17:06.03 | harleypig | fugue88: It's a custom file we're using to store information on vps' on a node. |
| 17:06.14 | harleypig | sjansen: what about them? |
| 17:06.28 | sjansen | http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/25/president-allegedly-dumps-israeli-prime-minister-dinner/?test=latestnews |
| 17:07.26 | harleypig | ?! He's gonna get us shunned by the whole freakin' world! |
| 17:09.15 | sjansen | Huh? |
| 17:09.45 | harleypig | Obama is going to insult all the world leaders at this rate and no one's going to want to deal with us. |
| 17:10.35 | sjansen | is pretty sure harleypig is trolling, there's no way that could be a serious opinion |
| 17:11.37 | harleypig | No, it was serious ... but I finished reading the article and I'm retracting my outburst. |
| 17:11.51 | harleypig | But I still don't like Obama |
| 17:11.58 | harleypig | or trust him |
| 17:13.09 | sjansen | *sigh* Another paranoid Utahn. It'd be funny if it weren't so depressing. |
| 17:13.38 | harleypig | ? My mom is from California and she doesn't like or trust him. |
| 17:13.49 | harleypig | And, sorry, while I live in Utah, I'm not of Utah. |
| 17:14.08 | Jayce^ | laughs at sjansen for categorizing harleypig and Utah together |
| 17:14.16 | sjansen | I'm certain you're right. I'm certain he'll destroy the nation. No doubt he's part of a Cuban conspiracy to install a puppet government so they can destroy us from within. |
| 17:14.37 | harleypig | And, forcing a bill through that is 2000 pages and *unfinished* means I have something to be paranoid about. |
| 17:14.56 | harleypig | I believe that's called a strawman argument. |
| 17:15.03 | Jayce^ | aw harleypig, there was no force, it was all transparent :-p |
| 17:15.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen is probably just bored at work |
| 17:15.37 | sjansen | You have to hand it to Castro. It was a stroke of genius faking illness so that he could concentrate more time on the delicate process of traveling back in time to register a fake Hawaiian then return and manipulate a presidential campaign. |
| 17:15.40 | Jayce^ | it's his version of "Do you want to play a game" |
| 17:15.52 | harleypig | feh ... shoving that mound of horseshit down america's gullet required force ... we'll all need to start sporting mustaches to hide the stretch marks. |
| 17:16.30 | Jayce^ | crap, I was chewing a pistacho at the time... now I gotta clean the keyboard.. |
| 17:17.05 | harleypig | yeah, sjansen, that's a strawman argument |
| 17:17.39 | stderr | What exactly don't you like about the healthcare bill? All the concessions given to Republicans? |
| 17:17.58 | harleypig | It's still being written, and yet it's passed. |
| 17:18.02 | sjansen | Personally, I'm impressed that Obama has done such an incredible job of concealing his deep hatred for America. The whole Jeremiah Wright thing almost blew his cover, but with help from disinformation campaign created during a poker game hosted by Osama bin Laden and Lindsay Lohan they were able to change the subject. |
| 17:18.23 | stderr | Welcome to every bill the United States has ever passed. |
| 17:18.30 | stderr | That has nothing to do with Obama. |
| 17:18.33 | stderr | Try again. |
| 17:19.34 | Jayce^ | ah the art of trolling in action |
| 17:19.41 | stderr | How does that have anything to do with Obama? |
| 17:19.58 | Jayce^ | how does it not? |
| 17:20.15 | sjansen | stderr: Providing balanced historical context is neither fair nor effect. The only way to balance the wingnut lunacy is equal and opposite lunacy. |
| 17:20.28 | sjansen | s/effect/effective/ |
| 17:21.12 | Jayce^ | except not balanced nor accurate context :) |
| 17:21.14 | stderr | Presumably, they're afraid of the line item modifications that Bush made so popular during his terms. |
| 17:22.01 | stderr | the extreme expansion of the executive branch that Cheney and Bush presided over. |
| 17:22.03 | stderr | I am too. |
| 17:22.04 | sjansen | Jayce^: They're not playing a new game in Washington. It's a couple hundred years old and this point, and we still haven't sunk into anarchy. |
| 17:22.18 | Jayce^ | stderr: which of course *never* existed at any other time |
| 17:22.20 | TehLaser | I'm always amazed at how when Republicans use procedureal tricks to allow majority rule, the general response is "quit whining, you bunch of sore losers" but when the Democrats do it, it's "quit ramming this crap down our throats!" |
| 17:22.38 | stderr | Jayce^: It did exist, just not quite so broadly nor as used. |
| 17:22.46 | Jayce^ | sjansen: 'cause we're going the *other* direction |
| 17:22.52 | TehLaser | The democrats are really really *bad* at being the opposition party. That or the republicans are really good. |
| 17:23.26 | unum | the republicans are really good about using fear |
| 17:23.30 | harleypig | oh, for god's sake |
| 17:23.33 | unum | it's hard to counter that no matter what |
| 17:23.39 | stderr | Healthcare legislation has been in the works for a long, long time. |
| 17:23.40 | TehLaser | oh, not just fear. |
| 17:23.41 | sjansen | The Republicans have developed an uncanny ability to attract the pessimistic, paranoid, depressed and violent. |
| 17:23.56 | Jayce^ | unum: really? and dems' *never* do that? |
| 17:24.01 | Migs | "Today is March 26th and I think it is very odd and silly that the kids have today off when Spring break starts next Thursday. There should be some way to attach this day to Spring Break. It is just ridiculous...make Spring Break 4 days and get rid of this stupid day off." |
| 17:24.01 | stderr | And we don't even have a public option, not to mention a single payer system |
| 17:24.12 | Migs | ODD and SILLY, I tell ya |
| 17:24.17 | unum | Jayce^: they do it less often, and are less succesful |
| 17:24.18 | stderr | Which during the time of the REAL commie scare, was actually under consideration. |
| 17:24.30 | unum | Jayce^: please name the major fear campaigns of the democrats |
| 17:24.36 | stderr | but now that we pass reform that doesn't contain ANY of those things, you still complain |
| 17:24.37 | Jayce^ | unum: absolute horse puckey... you just are a fanboy of the side |
| 17:24.40 | unum | global warming wolud be one |
| 17:24.42 | stderr | Ridiculous. |
| 17:24.51 | unum | but they haven't been very good at it |
| 17:25.14 | unum | Jayce^: name the fear campaigns of the democrats |
| 17:25.28 | Jayce^ | stderr: individual mandates, state requirements, the new taxes, etc.. goes on and on |
| 17:25.31 | unum | please keep it the last 12 years(since I've been a voter) |
| 17:25.37 | sjansen | The big advantages Republicans have is a willingness to oversimplify, while the Democrats are busy considering the other side of the other side of the other side of the argument, the Republicans have already distributed marching orders to all their talking heads. |
| 17:25.48 | unum | sjansen: agreed |
| 17:25.58 | Jayce^ | unum: look at the entire bush terms.. simply party plays |
| 17:26.11 | unum | Jayce^: name a topic |
| 17:26.17 | TehLaser | No, the big advantage Republicans have is their goals are atomic: "NO!". Democrats all want different things, and they oppose each other things sometimes. |
| 17:26.27 | Jayce^ | sjansen: so basically you oversimply to blame the "other" side of oversimplification |
| 17:26.28 | stderr | The entire Bush terms did far more to swing is in the "other direction" than Obama has, so far. |
| 17:26.29 | TehLaser | So they fracture and can't whip worth a damn. |
| 17:26.35 | Jayce^ | sounds like the classic "projection" |
| 17:26.49 | unum | TehLaser: the republicans have three branches, the democrats have a lot more |
| 17:26.57 | Jayce^ | ah the joys of people generalizing the "other guys".. |
| 17:27.18 | TehLaser | And I don't just mean in opposition. |
| 17:27.18 | Jayce^ | villification for the self-stroke... pure mental masturbation |
| 17:27.20 | unum | Jayce^: you've yet to name a topic that the democrats used to scare people |
| 17:27.37 | TehLaser | "Less govermnent" is a complete idea. "More goverment" leaves open the question: "but where?" |
| 17:28.05 | Jayce^ | unum: health care, religion, 'right wingers', 'nut jobs', entitlement, state education.... |
| 17:28.08 | sjansen | TehLaser: We must be Democrats because I'm going to have to disagree. The previous decade proved the Republicans are very willing to say "YES!" so long as it's increasing spending while cutting taxes so long as they're in power and get credit. |
| 17:28.45 | unum | Jayce^: so you say the democrats are screaming be afraid that the republicans are going to take away your entitlment? |
| 17:28.51 | Jayce^ | sjansen: and yet most people in that parties base have spoken out, and have tried to stop it.. |
| 17:28.51 | TehLaser | sjansen: well, perhaps in action, sure. But the messaging is still the way I had it. |
| 17:28.51 | stderr | completely wasting a budget surplus. But spending money on bombing brown people is ok, as long as noone can pay their health bills. |
| 17:28.54 | unum | I guess they did say they want to get rid of social security |
| 17:28.58 | TehLaser | And voters by-and-large, seem to buy it. |
| 17:29.03 | unum | but so did the republicans...... |
| 17:29.07 | Jayce^ | unum: yes, and also screaming that you must have it |
| 17:29.17 | unum | Jayce^: that's not the question |
| 17:29.20 | Jayce^ | unum: those that did are progressives, which I detest also |
| 17:29.28 | unum | the question was where did they use fear |
| 17:29.29 | stderr | <- Progressive |
| 17:29.36 | unum | me too |
| 17:29.44 | stderr | who makes six figures and is MORE THAN HAPPY to pay another 10, 15% in taxes. |
| 17:29.45 | Jayce^ | we know, it's obvious |
| 17:29.46 | stderr | Bring it. |
| 17:29.57 | Jayce^ | stderr: so why should I have to |
| 17:30.06 | stderr | I also served 2.5 years in combat zones, imagine that. |
| 17:30.10 | Jayce^ | so |
| 17:30.36 | sjansen | So he's done more to serve the nation than most of us. |
| 17:30.39 | unum | better education helps the economy |
| 17:30.45 | unum | a better health system helps the economy |
| 17:30.56 | stderr | but yes, it must be because I'm a screaming whiner that I want healthcare reform |
| 17:30.59 | unum | I've had to turn down jobs because of health care concerns |
| 17:31.01 | Jayce^ | doesn't mean the govt, especially the dederal needs it |
| 17:31.04 | Jayce^ | federeal |
| 17:31.06 | Jayce^ | bleh |
| 17:31.11 | stderr | Nevermind that people are going bankrupt throughout the country because of it |
| 17:31.20 | stderr | Don't get it twisted, this healthcare reform does NOTHING for me. |
| 17:31.22 | Jayce^ | unum: you *chose* too.. I've taken them knowing the risks |
| 17:31.31 | stderr | I come from a family of physicians, and have top-of-the-line healthcare |
| 17:31.33 | TehLaser | No, but the fact that the market has failed at it horriblly, repeatedly, does mean the goverment needs to fix it. |
| 17:31.39 | TehLaser | That's what government is for. |
| 17:31.47 | Jayce^ | my healthcare gets reduced thanks to our new bill |
| 17:32.05 | unum | Jayce^: I think that's irresponsible of you to risk not being able to get treatment for your family |
| 17:32.22 | stderr | I thought you didn't know what was in the bill, Jayce^. How can you qualify that? |
| 17:32.24 | Jayce^ | unum: because you have no clue of the whole consideration, but nice of you to think so |
| 17:32.36 | stderr | Apparently you _do_ know what's in it! Imagine that. |
| 17:32.39 | Jayce^ | stderr: because you like to assume stuff like that... it's pretty easy |
| 17:32.52 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, health care is like education and bankruptcy law. Sure some people benefit more than others, but all of society benefits enough to justify it. |
| 17:33.02 | unum | sjansen: agreed |
| 17:33.03 | Jayce^ | stderr: yeah, I know it's hard for you guys to accept that there are people who *read* beyond yourselves |
| 17:33.21 | Jayce^ | little details such as that I can't use flex pay on prescriptions anymore |
| 17:33.30 | Jayce^ | nor can I have more that $2500 in flex pay |
| 17:33.34 | stderr | Well you're the ones buying a book by Glenn Beck that republishes one of the original progressives treatises. |
| 17:33.48 | stderr | You can understand that, well, maybe we think you can read, but your reading comprehension is lacking. |
| 17:34.01 | Jayce^ | plus even many weak plans are now considered cadillac, just because of the amount your company pays for the employee |
| 17:34.25 | Jayce^ | stderr: or maybe, just somehow maybe even *you* might be missing something... imagine that.. |
| 17:34.50 | Jayce^ | you seem to mix progressivism with libertarianism :) |
| 17:34.58 | TehLaser | I'm just waiting for the insurance companies to start jacking up rates and blaming the bill, nevermind that the expensive stuff doesn't kick in for a while. |
| 17:35.01 | stderr | You think Paine was a libertarian? |
| 17:35.08 | stderr | What of his have you read? |
| 17:35.20 | unum | I've only read his "age of reason" |
| 17:35.32 | stderr | Paine a libertarian... oh dear. |
| 17:35.38 | stderr | wipes tears from his eyes. |
| 17:35.46 | stderr | Did you go to college, Jayce^? |
| 17:35.51 | Jayce^ | stderr: yup |
| 17:36.08 | Jayce^ | I know, hard for you guys to believe |
| 17:36.10 | stderr | so what of his have you read, and what positions of his would you say define him being a libertarian? |
| 17:36.12 | unum | I've never used any of the flex pay stuff so I'm not affected by that |
| 17:36.19 | unum | so I hadn't looked at that part of the bill |
| 17:36.26 | unum | why are they limmiting those plans? |
| 17:36.57 | stderr | universal public education? is that a libertarian virtue, Jayce^? |
| 17:36.59 | Sargun | Who do you guys use for IP Geolocation? |
| 17:37.11 | Jayce^ | unum: for the revenue of course |
| 17:37.26 | stderr | Would you say ohhh, minimum income is libertarian? |
| 17:37.29 | Jayce^ | stderr: most of his earlier works completely identify with that |
| 17:37.34 | stderr | How so? |
| 17:37.48 | Jayce^ | whereas after he went to france, and joined with their movement, he changed. |
| 17:37.57 | stderr | I'm a huge Paine fan, I'd love for you to enlighten me, since perhaps I may have missed something. |
| 17:38.19 | Jayce^ | many people did that, some later switched back, such as jefferson, who began to note the difference in the french revolution from the american |
| 17:38.31 | harleypig | See, my problem with discussing religion or politics with most people is they resort to ridicule instead of actually discussing points of disagreement |
| 17:38.55 | stderr | I just want Jayce^ to point to particular positions of Paine |
| 17:39.02 | stderr | that are identifiably as "Libertarianism" |
| 17:39.07 | stderr | anti-monarchy != libertarianism |
| 17:39.17 | stderr | fomenting a rebellion != libertarianism either. |
| 17:39.20 | Jayce^ | as I said, earlier works, such as common sense promoting the self over the state |
| 17:40.11 | stderr | Common Sense wasn't libertarian in the least. It was treatise advocating democracy, and anti-monarchy. |
| 17:40.13 | Jayce^ | they promote the realizations of the individual, and their choices, and their own actions, not those forced by others |
| 17:40.16 | stderr | it wasn't "self over the state" |
| 17:40.22 | stderr | it was "the colonies over British Rule" |
| 17:41.28 | stderr | and expounded on the fact that societies naturally form governments, with regulations, and the balance of society and government. |
| 17:41.55 | sjansen | Elevation of the self without regard for community is a right wing value, but blatantly un-Christian. Which has always struck me as odd. |
| 17:42.10 | stderr | Most of his arguments were really about hereditary rule. |
| 17:43.06 | Jayce^ | sjansen: you are automatically assuming no regard for the community.. putting your own assumptions into the argument |
| 17:43.08 | stderr | Not about "libertarianism". He later solidified his positions on the balance between government and society, thus resulting in The Crisis and Rights of Man and Age of Reason |
| 17:43.34 | stderr | which were an evolution and expansion of his earlier works, not conflicting ideas. |
| 17:43.46 | Jayce^ | whcih came about from his associations to the french revolution, which is important |
| 17:44.00 | Jayce^ | one way of thought brought about a republic, the other napolean |
| 17:44.16 | stderr | (well, the Crisis was pretty much just straight up propaganda, much like Common Sense, but each has the sparks that ignited into his later works) |
| 17:44.34 | Jayce^ | meeting.. bbl8r |
| 17:46.28 | sjansen | Jayce^: No, I'm not. I challenge you to pay attention for a few months. A lot more right wing positions emphasis individual liberty over resposibility to community, even if their couch the argument in "for the good of society". |
| 17:47.12 | unum | I think the stances on education illistrate that point perfectly |
| 17:48.08 | stderr | I do like how the right wing argument re: Netanyahu has gone full circle |
| 17:48.15 | sjansen | "For the good of society, we must not help the poor. Welfare is un-American, un-Christ and anyone show supports it is an atheist and communist!" |
| 17:48.27 | stderr | he bows to the emperor of Japan, OMG HE IS JUST SUCKING UP TO THESE FOREIGN LEADERS GOD HE HAS NO LOVE FOR AMERICA |
| 17:49.10 | stderr | he tells Netanyahu to stop building settlements in east Jerusalem and actually has the balls to treat him sternly |
| 17:49.20 | stderr | "OMG ALL FOREIGN LEADERS ARE GOING TO HATE US NOW" |
| 17:49.33 | sjansen | "Government regulation is un-Christian. Christ didn't put up with government telling him what to do, why should we have to?" |
| 17:49.37 | *** part/#utah redbeard_work (~jphall@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 17:49.42 | stderr | it's this tendency to swing to any extreme possible that is awesomely fun to watch. |
| 17:51.59 | TehLaser | Israel seems to have special rules that apply to it. |
| 17:52.05 | harleypig | stderr: wtf? You're equating bowing to a foriegn monarch and treating a foreign leader harshly as the same thing? |
| 17:52.14 | harleypig | and did you notice that I retracted my outburst? |
| 17:53.20 | sjansen | harleypig: You did, but the talking heads on the right haven't. |
| 17:54.02 | harleypig | ok, but my first wtf still stands |
| 17:54.11 | harleypig | to stderr I mean |
| 17:54.48 | JoshH | harleypig: i think he's demonstrating that the criticism from teh right is not consistent |
| 17:55.04 | sjansen | harleypig: It's called diplomacy and Bush did it too, but much less expertly. |
| 17:55.47 | sjansen | Bush also bowed and snubbed, but no one ever used an of the events to argue he hated America. |
| 17:55.56 | harleypig | Do any foreign monarchs bow to each other? Did the emporor bow to obama? |
| 17:56.08 | harleypig | and I'm not arguing that obama hates america |
| 17:56.20 | JoshH | i think it was a simple gesture of respect |
| 17:56.24 | harleypig | I think obama is a front man |
| 17:56.32 | harleypig | JoshH: I disagree |
| 17:56.42 | JoshH | it's not like the guy thought "wow obama is bowing to me, what a pussy, i can totally screw with america now" |
| 17:57.04 | sjansen | For a (long) list of instance where the right has done complete 180's just to find an excuse to fault Obama see: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=recdc |
| 17:57.41 | JoshH | harleypig: aren't you somewhat liberal, at least by utah standards? |
| 17:57.59 | sjansen | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-bowed.jpg&imgrefurl=http://liberalvaluesblog.com/2009/04/06/bowing-down-to-king-abdullah/&usg=__F2x4UlChvrQKrp4OhhhUVq9w8eY=&h=381&w=450&sz=31&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=hxb7htYSjtwlXM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbush%2Bbowing%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1 |
| 17:58.08 | sjansen | http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/redeye-royalty/bow.jpg |
| 17:58.17 | sjansen | http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/redeye-royalty/2009-11-17-Obamabow1.jpg |
| 17:58.40 | JoshH | they're just leaning forward a little! |
| 17:59.03 | harleypig | JoshH: http://politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-1.50&soc=-2.87 |
| 17:59.04 | sjansen | So why is it okay for Republicans to show respect to foreign governments, but when a Democrat does it he's betray the nation? |
| 17:59.21 | harleypig | sjansen: has bush ever bowed to a foreign monarch? |
| 17:59.24 | JoshH | there is plenty of legitimate basis to criticize obama out there, so i just don't get why people focus on things like a bow |
| 17:59.34 | harleypig | sjansen: and I never said he's betraying the nation dammit |
| 17:59.35 | JoshH | instead of the fact that he has basically continued just about every bush policy |
| 17:59.44 | sjansen | harleypig: That's the first photo linked. Thanks for ignoring it. |
| 18:01.18 | sjansen | I quit. There's no hope when if you just going to ignore counter evidence. Clearely Obama is evil, he can't be trusted and we're all doomed. |
| 18:01.27 | harleypig | sjansen: The Nixon one doesn't bother me ... they are both bowing ... I'll take *that* as a sign of mutual respect ... |
| 18:01.30 | stderr | he's a front man for the lizard people, sjansen. |
| 18:01.31 | sjansen | I at least gave Bush six years. |
| 18:01.52 | harleypig | enough with the fucking strawman |
| 18:02.01 | *** part/#utah harleypig (~harleypig@harleypig.com) |
| 18:02.10 | stderr | Man I love how harleypig's ass can curse all he wants yet if I say damn I get ~language'ed |
| 18:02.18 | JoshH | man, people get so passionate about political arguments |
| 18:02.35 | JoshH | ~language stderr |
| 18:02.35 | ibot | ACTION grabs stderr by the ear and washes stderr's mouth out with soap |
| 18:02.42 | stderr | I have a whole boatload of personal issues that make me passionate about it. |
| 18:03.10 | stderr | I didn't hear these same douchebags complaining when I was pounding sand in Iraq, watching my friends die. And it makes me want to choke a motherfucker. |
| 18:03.31 | JoshH | i can't see you quitting the channel during an argument though |
| 18:03.41 | stderr | I have a couple times. |
| 18:03.57 | JoshH | ah, ok then |
| 18:04.06 | stderr | My major complaint is these right wingers who now complain about the power of the government and how it's out of control. |
| 18:04.12 | stderr | Because I AGREE. |
| 18:04.14 | stderr | God do I agree. |
| 18:04.22 | stderr | But Obama? Really? |
| 18:04.46 | JoshH | but you also thought that before the president was black and a democrat and a radical christian muslim atheist |
| 18:05.16 | stderr | He's a breath of fresh air compared to the manipulation and control leveraged by the last administration. And these guys were smiling the whole ride. |
| 18:05.19 | sjansen | Obama is pure evil. Giving him the benefit of the doubt would be like making a pact with Satan. It can not, it must not be allowed. |
| 18:05.42 | unum | I actually did have a ward member tell me in all seriousness that Obama is an anti-christ |
| 18:05.53 | sjansen | Society is doomed and the only hope for the pure is to violently hate any who dare disagree. |
| 18:05.53 | unum | laid out his whole argument for me |
| 18:06.07 | JoshH | i like obama, and i think overall his heart is in the right place, but he's definitely been a disappointment as far as keeping his promises and undoing what bush did |
| 18:06.15 | stderr | JoshH: I agree. |
| 18:06.16 | TehLaser | unum: apparantly, in a recent poll, a surpisingly large number of peole agree with that. |
| 18:06.17 | JoshH | more of a disappointment than i expected, and i was pretty cynical |
| 18:06.20 | unum | JoshH: I agree |
| 18:06.46 | unum | I was hoping for a high ranking position for lessig |
| 18:06.51 | unum | but I don't think he wanted it |
| 18:07.10 | stderr | all this hate the right is spewing will get Obama killed then they'll look around and say "who me?" |
| 18:07.14 | stderr | and snicker in private with their friends. |
| 18:07.41 | stderr | and it disgusts me. |
| 18:07.53 | TehLaser | Yeah, the propane incident is scary. |
| 18:08.24 | stderr | As much as I hated Bush and his policies, I didn't set him up as the antichrist. I thought he was an idiot and surrounded himself with evil people. |
| 18:08.40 | JoshH | romney is the antichrist |
| 18:08.41 | stderr | (and I have more reasons to hate a president than I care to count) |
| 18:08.43 | JoshH | you can tell by that smile |
| 18:08.45 | unum | when you believe that opponent is personally led by the devil, then you believe those that stop him through any means are doing Gods work |
| 18:09.49 | stderr | I guess it just makes me angry that I have so many valid reasons to hate Bush, and these idiots act angrier than me about OBAMA. |
| 18:09.57 | stderr | it just boils my blood. |
| 18:10.44 | stderr | pops another anti-depressant. |
| 18:11.09 | stderr | Ironically enough, Bush is partly responsible for me being on so much medication, and Obama is going to pay for it. |
| 18:11.30 | stderr | Yay. |
| 18:12.47 | TehLaser | VA doesn't/didn't pay for service-related medication? Really? |
| 18:13.15 | stderr | the amount of hoops you have to jump through to prove PTSD then wrangle money from them isn't worth it. |
| 18:13.57 | stderr | even admitting to PTSD in the service will get you ostracized quite a bit. |
| 18:14.16 | stderr | well, not admitting to being shaken up, but pursuing medical treatment will. |
| 18:14.51 | stderr | I'm on xanax, trazodone, and zoloft, all of which are pretty cheap. Much cheaper than the lithium was. |
| 18:15.18 | TehLaser | Yeah. The whole "be a man and deal with it" thing is rather strongly buried in culture. |
| 18:15.23 | unum | stderr: are you seeing anyone, or just taking medicine |
| 18:16.58 | TehLaser | OTOH, psychoactive drugs can be nasty. |
| 18:17.00 | stderr | unum: I'm seeing a psychiatrist |
| 18:17.09 | stderr | I was seeing a VA counselor when I was in Tahoe |
| 18:17.14 | unum | sorry that was probably a really personal question |
| 18:17.22 | unum | but I'm a big fan of counseling |
| 18:17.25 | unum | it really helped me |
| 18:17.26 | stderr | oh I don't mind sharing. |
| 18:17.58 | stderr | One of my best friend's heads was blown off by a sniper and I had to fight for two hours with his hair, blood, skull, and brain covering my face and shoulders. |
| 18:18.12 | stderr | You can imagine why I find the right wing nuts argument against Obama a little ludicrous. |
| 18:18.18 | unum | ya |
| 18:18.45 | unum | I was raised republican it wasn't until I was 21 I started changing |
| 18:19.04 | unum | kind of funny I read a biography on fidel castro, and it completely changed everything for me |
| 18:19.23 | unum | after that I started to change prety quickly |
| 18:19.38 | unum | I find the title of mitt romney's book one of the most offense things every |
| 18:20.01 | sjansen | In retrospect, I started changing when I was a kid but I didn't realize what was happening until a few years ago. |
| 18:20.20 | stderr | I really can understand if they have an argument against Obama's policies |
| 18:20.25 | stderr | That's completely fine, of course. |
| 18:21.10 | JoshH | unum: i can't believe people actually paid money to see that guy at the salt palace. the love he gets around here is disturbing. |
| 18:21.32 | sjansen | For me, the turning point was sitting in the ruins of a Spanish fort in Panama looking on a slum and feeling sad that people had to live like that. |
| 18:22.23 | sjansen | At some point my billfold fell out and was returned to me untouched by a local child in nothing but his underwear. |
| 18:23.23 | stderr | I come from a very progressive family with strong patriotic values |
| 18:23.24 | sjansen | It's hard to focus on individual liberty when for so many that means the liberty to suffer poverty, ignorance, disease and silence. |
| 18:23.26 | stderr | Amazing, I know! |
| 18:24.07 | stderr | but I've always been liberal, it wasn't til I returned from Iraq that I realized conservatives immediately assumed I was some sort of welfare queen hippy when I mentioned I was liberal. |
| 18:24.22 | JoshH | sjansen: to me, liberty means being able to do whatever you want, not necessarily to pay a bit less in taxes just to not have to help anyone else out. |
| 18:24.29 | stderr | which resulted in a fair number of barfights. |
| 18:25.43 | JoshH | and republicans/conservatives don't advocate my idea of liberty |
| 18:28.18 | stderr | see the wikileaks thing? |
| 18:28.59 | JoshH | i'm always surprised wikileaks is still running |
| 18:29.00 | sjansen | I probably don't support 100% of your definition either. I'm just not surrounded by as many left wing extremists, so they're less annoying. |
| 18:29.14 | stderr | http://gigaom.com/2010/03/26/wikileaks-asks-cia-to-stop-spying-on-it/ |
| 18:29.35 | stderr | sjansen: you don't immediately assume because you don't agree with him that he's a soviet plant. |
| 18:30.08 | stderr | you can be "conservative" without being a nutjog |
| 18:30.10 | stderr | nutjob* |
| 18:30.19 | stderr | you can be "liberal" without hating America. |
| 18:30.19 | sjansen | JoshH? There's nothing to assume. I have documented proof, including photos, that prove he's a scout for the martian invasion. |
| 18:31.05 | JoshH | i grew up pretty conservative when it comes to foreign policy and guns and stuff, but non-religious and socially liberal. |
| 18:31.18 | JoshH | these days my foreign policy is much more liberal |
| 18:31.46 | Sargun | whaaa |
| 18:31.52 | JoshH | i think i'm a fiscal moderate, but i've never had any problem with spending public money on awesome things like zoos and parks and i've always thought public healthcare would be great |
| 18:32.56 | JoshH | i actually thought the iraq war was a good idea at first, when the intel about the WMD and all that still seemed accurate to most people |
| 18:34.13 | JoshH | though i also thought we should continue the containment strategy until afghanistan was taken care of |
| 18:34.23 | JoshH | i always worried about spending too much and stretching ourselves thin |
| 18:34.49 | sjansen | So did I. Which pissed me off all the more when I found out the intelligence was manipulated to match neo-con goals. |
| 18:36.11 | JoshH | ya |
| 18:36.56 | JoshH | everyone knew bush and his circle had fantasized about invading iraq for a long time, but i didn't think they would go as far as they did to justify it, just because it seems so unreal that someone could be like that |
| 18:38.06 | stderr | at the _expense_ of catching bin Laden |
| 18:38.16 | stderr | we were pulled out of Afghanistan because of their manipulation |
| 18:39.11 | stderr | they should be in jail |
| 18:40.28 | stderr | god, a public apology would help. |
| 18:41.13 | TehLaser | Not happening though. See, too many voters still believe it was an honest mistake, not outright manipulation. |
| 18:41.37 | stderr | so WHAT? |
| 18:41.44 | stderr | so what if it WAS an honest mistake? |
| 18:42.22 | JoshH | they don't have enough character to apologize for anything |
| 18:42.33 | JoshH | besides, romney's book is called no apology |
| 18:42.37 | stderr | If members of my unit died because of my gross negligence and incompetence, I would probably kill myself before the court martial. |
| 18:42.38 | JoshH | apologizing is a sign of weakness |
| 18:42.50 | JoshH | only limp wristed liberals apologize |
| 18:43.20 | TehLaser | gross negligence and incompetence != honest mistake. |
| 18:43.52 | TehLaser | "those darn brown people lied to us" == honest mistake. |
| 18:43.57 | stderr | then there are no honest mistakes when you send soldiers into war, I'm sorry. |
| 18:44.06 | stderr | you better be goddamn sure you know what you're doing |
| 18:44.09 | stderr | OR DON'T SEND THEM |
| 18:44.55 | stderr | they didn't drop your favorite coffee mug |
| 18:45.22 | unum | I'm very disappointed powell was involved in that |
| 18:45.26 | unum | I really liked him |
| 18:45.41 | stderr | you should read the Woodward books |
| 18:45.50 | stderr | Powell was trying his damndest to mitigate everything |
| 18:46.40 | unum | I had a professor/high councilman who was retired cia and they still called him back all the time |
| 18:46.48 | unum | he had a really hard time with the iraq war |
| 18:46.58 | JoshH | high councilman? |
| 18:47.03 | JoshH | is that a mormon thing? |
| 18:47.03 | unum | church leader |
| 18:47.06 | unum | ya |
| 18:47.10 | JoshH | ah |
| 18:47.29 | unum | I was taking a class from him when he was called into the position, it was kind of funny |
| 18:47.35 | unum | hey, I know that guy |
| 18:52.45 | JoshH | i wish i could figure out how to get rid of the statusbar drag to move thing in gnumeric on karmic |
| 18:53.12 | stderr | rvm system |
| 18:53.24 | stderr | argh Visor you're killing me |
| 18:53.24 | JoshH | really annoying when it constantly hides my tabs |
| 19:02.16 | levi | Mmm, Thai curry. |
| 19:05.14 | jsmith | Mussaman? Panang? |
| 19:05.59 | levi | Panang |
| 19:16.23 | JoshH | whoa, didn't know petraeus was at byu yesterday |
| 19:16.58 | unum | me either til I read the paper this morning |
| 19:17.46 | levi | Isn't he an evil anti-Semite traitor now? :P |
| 19:26.17 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (~woodsdog@nat/redhat/x-ljyfvghbwoluauqe) |
| 19:33.46 | stderr | haha |
| 19:34.06 | stderr | he hasn't overthrown Obama yet, of COURSE he's a traitor! |
| 19:38.25 | unum | overthrows stderr |
| 19:38.51 | unum | counts the liberals in the room |
| 19:39.05 | unum | based off the states population I think we're over represented |
| 19:39.31 | sjansen | Have we really reached this point? I just received an out-of-office email response for 2 hour window. |
| 19:39.51 | unum | well when you're THAT important |
| 19:39.52 | sjansen | Not "I'm out of the office this week" or "today" but "for the next 2 hours". |
| 19:40.04 | levi | Welcome to the age of blackberry. |
| 19:40.34 | levi | When email rings your phone, phone-like response times are expected. |
| 19:40.36 | sjansen | *sigh* Some days I wish we hand't everyone else about the Internet |
| 19:41.51 | levi | No kidding. |
| 19:42.31 | levi | I kinda liked the days of university kids emailing and MUDding. |
| 19:46.11 | unum | maybe we should become the internet enforcement team |
| 19:46.21 | unum | and shoot people when the do bad things |
| 19:48.11 | unum | sorry just angry about an all flash website |
| 19:51.05 | sjansen | Heh. Snow storm. If it last 3 more hours it'll be the perfect end to this day. |
| 19:51.27 | stderr | pretty horrible outside, more of an ice/slush storm |
| 19:51.42 | stderr | downtown SLC, at any rate |
| 19:52.08 | sjansen | wanders off to look at lolcats |
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| 21:19.45 | *** topic/#utah is logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | http://planet.utos.org/ | The cake is a lie. |
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| 22:11.36 | fozzmoo1 | heh. |
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