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| 05:29.51 | bonez2046 | what's the best channel here on freenode for help with networking between linux and win xp pro? |
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| 15:41.01 | tyce | any one using chrome on ubuntu? |
| 15:41.29 | sontek | yeah |
| 15:41.31 | tyce | and if so, have you noticed the horrible performance from google's apt mirrors? |
| 15:42.02 | sontek | I don't remember, its been too long since I installed it |
| 15:42.26 | cedwards | I notice Chrome updates are slow on any OS. |
| 15:43.38 | tyce | it's too bad, I don't mind the browser (when it's working properly) but my apt updates take +2m now because of it |
| 15:45.31 | sontek | are you apt updating a lot? :P |
| 15:46.25 | tyce | no, just a nuisance when I do |
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| 15:54.05 | unum | hmmm utah tech council |
| 15:54.17 | unum | $250 for an annual membership |
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| 15:55.25 | unum | I think we need a better organized individual tech political organization |
| 15:58.55 | tensai | tyce: I just updated and yeah it took forever for the google source |
| 15:59.41 | tensai | curiously, downloading the package is going pretty quickly |
| 15:59.56 | tyce | yeah, that sounds about right :) |
| 16:00.29 | tensai | typically I don't apt-get update. that's what crontabs are for. |
| 16:01.05 | tyce | yeah, old habits... |
| 16:01.26 | unum | you auto update on production machines? |
| 16:01.43 | tensai | no. I auto apt-get update on production machines. |
| 16:02.20 | tensai | but no auto upgrade |
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| 16:08.40 | unum | oh ya that makes sense |
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| 16:42.02 | tensai | I use cron-apt which sends me a nice report of which machines need which packages. works great. |
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| 16:55.36 | tensai | ~rm elg |
| 16:55.37 | ibot | elg is an unperson |
| 16:55.44 | elg | hooray |
| 16:55.48 | elg | does that mean I don't need to sleep now? |
| 16:56.02 | tensai | now you need to usleep |
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| 17:00.18 | sjansen | ~curse daylight saving |
| 17:00.19 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, daylight saving ! |
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| 17:03.07 | tensai | I prefer daylight saving. I just wish they'd leave it all year round. |
| 17:03.32 | tensai | the context switches are killer |
| 17:06.03 | sjansen | ~curse context switches |
| 17:06.04 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, context switches ! |
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| 17:13.34 | Migs | I don't even understand why we have time zones |
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| 17:13.59 | goozbach | Migs: cause of the trains! |
| 17:14.29 | bonez2046 | which trains? |
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| 17:14.40 | bonez2046 | amtrack? |
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| 17:15.32 | sjansen | Because expecting me to wake up a 2am just because I live in Utah would be inhumane. |
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| 17:24.18 | bonez2046 | I moved from 9.10 on a drive with ext3 to a new identically sized drive in same box.. with 9.10 using ext4 installed.. now though, network shares, print shares ,etc.. are not working.. where, which channnel or resource can I find help testing and repairing this? |
| 17:26.23 | tensai | wakes sjansen up at 2am |
| 17:39.14 | sjansen | http://www.thematchfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/invade-a-hospital.jpg |
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| 17:45.48 | tyce | is curious how they come up with that statistic |
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| 18:00.52 | nicros | what if a terrorist attacks a hospital full of people without insurance? |
| 18:02.36 | sjansen | Pray that Dick Cheney was among the victims or he'll use it as an excuse to get all 24 known Democratic sympathizers. |
| 18:02.58 | tensai | I'd like to know what they mean by "lack of health care" |
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| 18:04.04 | sjansen | s/24 known/24 on known/ |
| 18:04.29 | tensai | sjansen: that makes even less sense |
| 18:10.14 | sjansen | tensai: Clearly you haven't watched Fex's documentary of the "patriotic" exploits of Jack Bauer, Torturer in Chief, in his quest to defend liberty by ignoring the rule of law. |
| 18:10.31 | tristanbob_ | anyone use www.squarespace.com? comments? opinions? |
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| 18:21.17 | tensai | recommended open source firmware for a wrt54g? |
| 18:24.29 | Migs | dd-wrt? |
| 18:25.58 | fungus | openwrt |
| 18:31.58 | jsmith | dd-wrt |
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| 18:39.08 | tristanbob_ | tomato |
| 18:40.50 | Migs | banana |
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| 19:01.45 | TodPunk | tensai: it really depends on the revision of the hardware. I prefer openwrt, but it's a bit less user-friendly and doesn't work on much hardware. If it's a later revision, you'll probably only get dd-wrt on there. Possibly tomato, but I've never used tomato, so can't speak to it. |
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| 19:06.22 | tensai | dd-wrt, openwrt, and tomato are the 3 on my list. personally I use openwrt but I want to review options. |
| 19:10.45 | TodPunk | They're just different to me. Tomato was just an overlap of functionality that dd-wrt and/or openwrt provided and I didn't want to mess with it at the time. I like dd-wrt, but when I was looking at it a while back it didn't do PPPoE like I needed it to, so I switched back to openwrt |
| 19:33.23 | tyce | http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/geeksugar/~3/DmM8fz0VWvI/Spencer-Pratt-Leaving-Hills-Fight-Cyber-Crime-7765580 |
| 19:33.39 | orbit | I like tomato |
| 19:33.54 | tyce | there's no way that guy is that intelligent |
| 19:38.11 | Migs | I don't know |
| 19:38.38 | Migs | there's some guys I knew in high school that were total morons, and they somehow ended up in the same type of software engineering field I"m in |
| 19:38.43 | Migs | maybe I'M a moron? |
| 19:39.30 | TodPunk | maybe intelligence isn't as needed in the field as you suspect, or at least isn't as necessary in the job hunt side of things |
| 19:39.43 | sjansen | There's something sick about a site like that calling itself "geek". |
| 19:40.10 | sjansen | I want the old exclusivity of the "geek" label back. |
| 19:40.18 | sjansen | Owning an iPhone does not make one a geek! |
| 19:41.23 | TodPunk | I don't. That exclusivity was a bad brand that we may have worn proudly, but didn't offer me anything of value but that pride. I find the current brand much more useful. |
| 19:41.34 | goozbach | sjansen: I would say that the inverse is true |
| 19:41.36 | goozbach | :) |
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| 19:44.51 | Migs | "Geek" is the new "cool" |
| 19:44.59 | Migs | problem is most people who claim to be "geeks" aren't really geeks at all. |
| 19:45.28 | Migs | http://www.flowriter.com/geek-is-the-new-cool-and-cool-is-the-new-poser/ |
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| 20:07.30 | tyce | so does this mean they're beating up the jocks in HS now? |
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| 20:12.48 | levi | sjansen: Levi's Rule of Shell Scripts: Don't write them. Use real programming languages instead. |
| 20:13.45 | sjansen | *shrug* I enjoy the challenge. (Within reason.) |
| 20:14.46 | levi | Yeah. I just look for my challenges elsewhere. :) |
| 20:22.14 | tensai | levi: well if you're bored you could always reform election campaign finance |
| 20:24.02 | TodPunk | Assuming I'm new to the mailing list, would it be bad form to post a "seeker" post? What does one include in such a post if it's not? |
| 20:27.59 | unum | sjansen: you should come work here, we use tcsh |
| 20:29.02 | levi | Nah, my latest challenges are mostly found in the process of fixing up my van. |
| 20:29.04 | sjansen | firmly grasps a crucifix while lobbing holy water at unum |
| 20:29.50 | unum | ouch! it burns!!!! |
| 20:30.42 | fungus | The power of bash compels you! |
| 20:30.58 | goozbach | hah! |
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| 21:28.12 | nicros | anyone know a good channel for Robotics? |
| 21:28.22 | nicros | or anyone here into electronics? |
| 21:35.22 | eightyeight | ksh or zsh ftw. that is all |
| 21:37.24 | tyce | I am eager to welcome my robotic overloards... but sadly I know little about them. |
| 21:37.53 | unum | my manager keeps talking abotu wanting me to build a robot to work at night |
| 21:37.54 | sjansen | Uhm, other than usable vi keybindings, what does ksh have on bash? |
| 21:41.29 | eightyeight | ksh variables canbe strongly typed |
| 21:42.20 | TodPunk | at that point, wouldn't you just use an actual programming language instead of a shell script? |
| 21:43.49 | eightyeight | if that floats your boat |
| 21:45.05 | eightyeight | ksh and zsh both support coproccesses as well |
| 21:45.50 | eightyeight | ksh93 support static variable scope |
| 21:46.17 | levi | ksh was designed to be a more sane scripting language for systems programming than sh/csh are. |
| 21:46.19 | eightyeight | oh, and don't forget floating point arithmetic |
| 21:46.39 | levi | Still, I would avoid doing any real programming with it. |
| 21:47.33 | levi | Don't see any real benefit to it at all. At least sh programming has the excuse that it's installed everywhere. |
| 21:49.05 | eightyeight | meh. i have ksh93 installed on all my hpux, solaris and rhel servers at work |
| 21:49.10 | TodPunk | Python's practically everywhere nowadays as well. |
| 21:49.13 | eightyeight | not hard to get installed |
| 21:49.28 | sjansen | Bash also supports static scoping and coprocesses. |
| 21:49.43 | levi | eightyeight: On all *your* servers. |
| 21:49.46 | sjansen | Python's practically everyone on _Linux_. |
| 21:49.58 | goozbach | python is even on plan9! |
| 21:49.58 | eightyeight | shrug |
| 21:50.01 | goozbach | :) |
| 21:50.06 | goozbach | bash however.... |
| 21:50.07 | goozbach | :( |
| 21:50.13 | levi | My preferred scriping language would be installed on all *my* servers, if I had any. ;) |
| 21:50.20 | unum | my little brother just called me asked about parsing a csv file |
| 21:50.26 | goozbach | and RC is like all the worst parts of bash, and none of the good parts |
| 21:50.34 | TodPunk | sjansen: it's on Mac too |
| 21:50.38 | unum | he works for the military where free compilers/interpeters are not allowed on their computers |
| 21:50.43 | unum | even for the IT staff |
| 21:50.50 | eightyeight | i prefer zsh to any shell. when i can't have it, i want ksh. when that's not available, sh will bo |
| 21:51.54 | sjansen | unum: Tell him it can't be done. Say something about it being a Turing Complete problem. If he ever brings it up again, noogie him. |
| 21:51.54 | eightyeight | s/bo/do/ |
| 21:51.54 | unum | sjansen: he works for the AMMO DEPARMENT!!!! |
| 21:52.03 | eightyeight | sjansen: when did bash start supporting copreccesses or static scoping? |
| 21:52.10 | sjansen | unum: As an older brother it is your duty to MAINTAIN SUPERIORITY AT ALL TIMES! |
| 21:52.22 | levi | unum: I was an automation volunteer for the Army for a couple of years. Didn't have any silly policies like that back tehn. |
| 21:52.38 | unum | of course it's not like he's going to be able to do anything with a with a sidewinder..... |
| 21:52.50 | levi | (I can't see what I'm typing because I'm going through a super-laggy link, so I apologize for typos) |
| 21:52.52 | sjansen | eightyeight: Static scoping, a long time. As for coprocesses, no idea. The very thought scares the heck out of me. |
| 21:53.00 | unum | levi: this is at HAFB I thought he said it was DoD policy but I could be misremembering |
| 21:53.01 | eightyeight | just curious |
| 21:53.11 | eightyeight | i didn't know it supported either |
| 21:53.18 | eightyeight | good to hear, if it actually does |
| 21:53.20 | levi | unum: This was a long time ago, so it may be a new policy. |
| 21:53.28 | unum | he wrote a time card system in php, but seems to have forgotten about server side/client side scripting |
| 21:53.40 | unum | they do allow linux SERVERS |
| 21:53.41 | eightyeight | now if we can get floating point arithmetic and hashes into bash... |
| 21:53.47 | unum | but that's the only free software allowed |
| 21:53.55 | unum | I think he said even firefox is banned |
| 21:54.05 | levi | Weird. |
| 21:54.31 | levi | I'm sure VBScript has a way to parse CSV files. |
| 21:54.33 | sjansen | I am not comforted by the thought of the military using IE. |
| 21:54.50 | unum | ya, that was our conclusing |
| 21:54.57 | unum | is that he'd have to learn VBScript |
| 21:55.56 | levi | Maybe you could do it with PowerShell. |
| 21:57.07 | unum | either that or have my older brother who has access to the linux servers write him a web page |
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| 22:17.43 | eightyeight | sjansen: what was the online todo-list/task-manager site you really enjoyed? rememberthemilk.com? |
| 22:18.16 | sjansen | http://hiveminder.com/ |
| 22:18.32 | eightyeight | ahh, that's the one |
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| 22:47.55 | unum | so does anyone here have experience clustering postgresql? |
| 23:00.11 | Jayce^ | eggyknap is the best for that unum... most of my experience has led to heartbreak :( |
| 23:01.39 | eggyknap | unum: define cluster. |
| 23:02.19 | TodPunk | unum: short answer, you don't. Long answer, you use one of a million things in the middle to do it. You might need to define your requirements for this more before investing into it. |
| 23:04.00 | unum | I'd like something like raid but with servers :) |
| 23:04.19 | unum | so multiple servers are running a database and load balancing |
| 23:04.28 | unum | and if one fails it keeps running |
| 23:04.41 | eggyknap | unum: www.bucardo.org |
| 23:04.42 | unum | I'm not sure it's worth it |
| 23:04.49 | unum | we may just do slony replication |
| 23:04.58 | eggyknap | It's probably not, but if it is, Bucardo's the only thing I know of that claims ability to handle it. |
| 23:06.10 | unum | thanks I appreciate the info |
| 23:06.24 | unum | we really screwed up |
| 23:06.36 | unum | went live with a production system with no replication |
| 23:06.46 | peno | oops |
| 23:07.26 | unum | soon after we went live it was decided that we would replicate and the goal was give to have it done in two weeks...... |
| 23:07.38 | eggyknap | single-master replication is much easier. |
| 23:07.53 | unum | do you recommend slony or something else for that |
| 23:08.05 | eggyknap | That depends on what you're doing. There are lots of options. |
| 23:08.29 | eggyknap | I don't really recommend slony for anything. Bucardo will do the single-master stuff too. the simplest and least feature-full is PITR |
| 23:09.49 | eggyknap | Slony's effectively a dead project. Although very widely used, it's not really being developed much. It's also a pain to use. |
| 23:11.28 | Jayce^ | bucardo > slony |
| 23:12.47 | unum | I'll look more at bucardo then |
| 23:13.07 | unum | we lost a hard drive today, but I think raid is actually working |
| 23:13.13 | unum | so we may be ok |
| 23:13.36 | peno | depending on your controller, you should be able to view the rebuild process. |
| 23:13.53 | unum | with what software tool? |
| 23:14.06 | peno | it'd be specific to your controller |
| 23:14.38 | unum | ya that's the problem it's dell crap, which specfically checks for rhel when it runs |
| 23:14.44 | unum | and since it's centos..... |
| 23:14.57 | peno | * > dell |
| 23:15.11 | ksaisjja | We run MegaCLI on the LSI-based PERC controllers. |
| 23:15.17 | peno | they usually use an lsi controller, though. |
| 23:15.17 | unum | if I was in charge of buying hardware they would all be supermicro |
| 23:15.40 | ksaisjja | Some of the PERCs are Adaptec tho. |
| 23:15.59 | peno | heh. I'm in the process of retiring supermicros. |
| 23:16.10 | unum | in favor of? |
| 23:16.12 | peno | hp |
| 23:16.15 | ksaisjja | We have a lot of Supermicro boxes. Their uptime / reliability stomps the crap out of anything else we run. It's almost insane. |
| 23:16.37 | unum | I've heard good things about their servers. I've had such bad experience with their desktops though..... |
| 23:16.54 | unum | hps I mean |
| 23:17.35 | unum | none of my processors are running above 20% rgiht now |
| 23:17.37 | *** join/#utah Demo (~Demo@c-174-52-33-117.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:17.38 | peno | we've had nothing but problems with the supermicro fleet |
| 23:18.01 | unum | I'd also go amd, but that's just because I'm that way |
| 23:18.36 | peno | I'm not impressed with amd lately |
| 23:20.22 | unum | peno: why do you say that |
| 23:22.13 | peno | usually run hotter when compared to a similar intel |
| 23:36.52 | TodPunk | We used Supermicros built by PC Discounters at the job I just got laid off from. They were about 1/3-1/4th the price of equivalent Dell/HP, and they were WAY more flexible with OS and whatnot. |
| 23:37.17 | TodPunk | Only problem we ever had with them was ESXi, which ESX is picky anyway. |
| 23:41.49 | peno | true, they are less expensive |
