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| 00:36.52 | tripzero | http://www.dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=84 |
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| 07:14.32 | salparadise | pashdown: can I PM? RE: director position at xmission. when you get a chance anyway. |
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| 15:43.58 | *** topic/#utah by tensai -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | Sllug meeting, 2/17 7:10PM - TBD | OALUG meeting, 2/23 7:00PM - TBD | sjansen can haz cheezburger? |
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| 16:09.53 | ^Migs^ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8511910.stm |
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| 16:19.07 | Jayce^ | wow.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYi24D9lHqc |
| 16:19.14 | Jayce^ | now *that* is a beard win! |
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| 16:31.10 | Jayce^ | Zelut: just gave you some hope in FB re: harleypig's link |
| 16:31.39 | Zelut | Jayce^: so far I've just been clicking the X in hopes that Google will get the point |
| 16:35.21 | Jayce^ | hehe.. well now you can install greasemonkey scripts.. just click the install |
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| 17:21.56 | fozzmoo | I got a nice demo of Stackable last night at XMission. |
| 17:22.51 | fozzmoo | Got a few questions answered about it. I have a much better idea of what it is now. |
| 17:24.25 | levi | So, what is it? |
| 17:24.27 | fozzmoo | At first glance, it looks like a virtualized hosting environment, but it's less generic than that. |
| 17:24.32 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Pray tell! |
| 17:24.54 | fozzmoo | Right now, it's a hosting environment for PHP+MySQL apps. |
| 17:25.04 | fozzmoo | You don't get root, but you get SSH access. |
| 17:25.15 | fozzmoo | For $35/mo, you can host as many sites as you want. |
| 17:25.51 | fozzmoo | You get 256MB of RAM, but that doesn't count OS and Stackable-supplied libraries. |
| 17:26.13 | fozzmoo | Of course, I asked about PostgreSQL support. |
| 17:26.16 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 17:26.30 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Good for you! |
| 17:27.07 | fozzmoo | The guys I talked to weren't Stackable core people, so they didn't know if/when it would happen. |
| 17:27.24 | fozzmoo | I think I heard them say they're working on a Rails container model as well. |
| 17:28.46 | fungus | don't forget the awesome infrastructure built-in for load balancing and quick deploys |
| 17:28.56 | fozzmoo | fungus: Yes. That was very cool. |
| 17:28.57 | fungus | All with a great web interface or documented APIs |
| 17:29.15 | fozzmoo | You can easily do load balancing with two containers ($70/mo) |
| 17:29.24 | tripzero | i use rackbyte.com's virtual private server for 10/mo. It's pretty much a high-bandwith virtual machine running ubuntu. so i can technically host as many sites as I have bandwidth for... |
| 17:29.40 | tripzero | i've got a couple deb repos on it right now |
| 17:29.42 | fozzmoo | And it's trivial to set up multiple environments (dev/staging/production) |
| 17:29.49 | goozbach | fozzmoo: it's pretty cool |
| 17:30.00 | goozbach | it's MultiMarkdown-CMS ready! |
| 17:30.00 | fozzmoo | tripzero: Yeah, and you pay for OS overhead as well as your own usage. |
| 17:30.10 | goozbach | container.friocorte.com |
| 17:30.13 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:30.22 | fungus | the difference between stackable and any other VPS is the infrastructure really. |
| 17:30.40 | fungus | and fozzmoo it's not Ubuntu. Its CentOS |
| 17:30.53 | fozzmoo | fungus: Yeah, I know. I didn't say it was Ubuntu. |
| 17:31.22 | fungus | ah, right. got mixed up |
| 17:31.45 | fungus | I've been playing with stackable for a week and it's really cool. |
| 17:31.50 | fozzmoo | I think it's great that it's CentOS. That's a solid platform. |
| 17:32.10 | fozzmoo | It's old, but solid. :) |
| 17:32.44 | fungus | I thought it was really interesting about their choice of VM platform. Parallels Virtuozzo |
| 17:32.55 | fungus | makes a lot of sense though |
| 17:33.57 | fozzmoo | They tell me the backend was done in Perl... so that's ++ to me. :) |
| 17:34.25 | fozzmoo | I'll be investigating it some more. Especially right now with the open invite - gives you a container for 30 days for free. |
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| 17:59.17 | ^Migs^ | haha http://rawstory.com/2010/02/detroit-schools-offer-class-work-walmart/ |
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| 18:13.12 | fadein | ^Migs^: that is so, so sad |
| 18:18.30 | tristanbob_ | which is better? add alias in apache or "ln -s" content to apache default directory? |
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| 18:22.07 | Zelut | tristanbob_: probably doesn't matter. probably less chance of an alias being accidentally clobbered though. |
| 18:23.15 | tristanbob_ | thanks Zelut |
| 18:23.52 | Zelut | realizes he could have worded that sentence better.. you get the idea. |
| 18:25.19 | ^Migs^ | no kidding |
| 18:25.26 | ^Migs^ | 50% unemployment in inner-city Detroit? |
| 18:25.29 | ^Migs^ | Why the heck are people even sticking around? |
| 18:25.47 | ^Migs^ | "The school district has been running badly in the red, and though emergency financial manager Robert Bobb has already closed 29 schools as a cost-cutting measure, it was reported this week that "the 84,000-student Detroit Public Schools could face additional layoffs and about 40 more school closings."" |
| 18:25.52 | Gate | ^Migs^: why did people stick in New Orleans? |
| 18:25.55 | ^Migs^ | where are all the kids going? |
| 18:26.03 | Gate | "The Government will take care of us" |
| 18:26.09 | ^Migs^ | lol, Obama fans |
| 18:26.20 | ^Migs^ | that's probably the problem |
| 18:26.34 | ^Migs^ | at some point you really have to make some effort to take care of yourself, though |
| 18:26.52 | Gate | Well, they, as many others believe that it is the responsability of the government to improve their lives |
| 18:27.08 | ^Migs^ | No, it's the responsibility of the government to ensure life doesn't suck. That's different. |
| 18:27.09 | sinuhe | Do *they*? |
| 18:27.11 | Gate | Some are stuck for other reasons |
| 18:27.28 | ^Migs^ | when there's no jobs, and your kids are being crowded into classrooms with 80 kids per teacher or dropping out, what incentive is there to stay? |
| 18:27.34 | Gate | It is the responsability of the government to prevent foreign invasion. That's pretty much it. |
| 18:27.35 | ^Migs^ | Pack up your bags and move cross country |
| 18:28.09 | ^Migs^ | I disagree. I think the government has some obligations to maintain a minimal level of quality living for its citizens |
| 18:28.10 | Gate | You couldn't pay me to live in Detroit. |
| 18:28.16 | Gate | I disagree |
| 18:28.17 | Gate | :) |
| 18:28.18 | ^Migs^ | But not to hold their hand the whole time |
| 18:29.22 | ^Migs^ | For example, to regulate businesses so they don't overcharge for basic amenities like electricity, plumbing, water, etc. |
| 18:29.25 | Gate | The government cannot give anything to anyone that they have not first stolen from someone else |
| 18:30.17 | Gate | ^Migs^: that is the free markets job. The government should only prevent monopolies that kill the free market. |
| 18:31.05 | tripzero | Gate++ |
| 18:32.38 | ^Migs^ | That's what I'm saying |
| 18:32.49 | ^Migs^ | no monopolies |
| 18:32.54 | Gate | No, you are talking about regulated prices |
| 18:33.09 | ^Migs^ | Wrong. |
| 18:33.12 | Gate | which is drastically different from antitrust |
| 18:33.15 | ^Migs^ | I think I KNOW what I'm talking about |
| 18:33.55 | unum | so if I tell thunderbird to use ssl/tls does that mean it's using it |
| 18:34.30 | unum | or do I have to click on the use secure authentication checkmark |
| 18:34.36 | unum | or is that something completely different |
| 18:35.33 | Gate | ^Migs^: then i misinterpreted your statement |
| 18:35.58 | Gate | but I should state that price regulation != antitrust |
| 18:36.37 | tripzero | Gate, however, preventing monopolies also helps keep prices at reasonable levels inadvertently |
| 18:37.07 | Gate | yes, through different forces, however. There are quite a few examples of attempts by the government to directly control prices |
| 18:37.28 | Gate | which is usually destructive to the business and in the end harms to consumers |
| 18:37.29 | tripzero | ie, the fed? |
| 18:37.30 | tripzero | :P |
| 18:37.39 | Gate | the fed, rent control etc. etc. etc. |
| 18:41.13 | VoidByte | I think there is more to sticking around detroit/new orleans than just "the government is going to take care of us", it is what they know, it is where they grew up. Moving to a new place/state is a scary thought. Particuarly when you don't have a marketable skill outside of a assembly line. They will be just as bad off everywhere else but they wont have there family there to support them. |
| 18:43.08 | tripzero | when google runs for president, all our problems will be solved! |
| 18:43.26 | VoidByte | Well now that corporations can run for office ;) |
| 18:44.43 | Gate | As I said, some are stuck there for other reasons. Nothing is as simple as one reason. |
| 18:45.46 | Gate | hey, I would have a corporation run things before some of the morons in charge. At least businesses know how to remain financially stable. |
| 18:46.04 | tripzero | heh |
| 18:46.11 | tripzero | no kidding |
| 18:46.22 | tripzero | imagine that, a profitable government |
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| 19:45.07 | unum | most businesses fail actually |
| 19:45.24 | unum | so most businesses do not no how to remian financially stable |
| 19:45.53 | unum | in fact a year and a half ago several business told the government that the government better give them money or they would fail |
| 19:46.15 | unum | so I have no idea where you get this idea from that business know how to remain fininancially stable |
| 19:52.34 | Gate | unum: simple: there are businesses that survive, and those that do not. Those that survive have, usually, at least some financial sense. |
| 19:53.40 | Gate | Show me ONE business that says "We're out of money, lets spend 3 trillion dollars!" and survives. |
| 20:02.37 | fungus | If you consider lending a form of spending, AIG |
| 20:03.48 | unum | what you wrote implied some sort of intiutive ability of businesses to survive |
| 20:04.03 | unum | business and governments are not the same, and they should not be run the same |
| 20:04.05 | fungus | Also, the govt is not a for-profit business. It's supposed to be a for-people business |
| 20:04.19 | fungus | It should be run like a non-profit. |
| 20:05.02 | unum | I have a question for any tea partiers in here. Which specific program would you cut? |
| 20:06.27 | unum | http://www.onlineforextrading.com/blog/federal-budget-broken-down/ |
| 20:06.35 | unum | that looks like a nice source so far |
| 20:08.13 | unum | I'll tell you what, when sarah palin comes and out and makes ending corn subsidies part of her platform, I'll rethink my position on her |
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| 20:20.12 | Gate | unum: I would start a phase out of Social-Security, Medicare and consolidate and shrink the internal enforcement agencies FBI/ICE/TSA/ATF into minimal form as well as the external agencies. |
| 20:20.59 | Gate | unfortunatey, in order to make sure no one gets screwed it could take 50 years to kill SS and medicare |
| 20:21.36 | unum | yep. because the people who already paid into it deserve to get it |
| 20:21.54 | Gate | Unfortunately they are relying on it to survive, we can't rip that away from them |
| 20:22.10 | Gate | so it has to be done with conscience and care. |
| 20:22.58 | Gate | there is massive bloat and duplication in federal agencies, including programs they shouldn't be involved with in the first place |
| 20:23.41 | unum | yes, but it seems everyone wants to cut all the programs that aren't in their state |
| 20:23.49 | Gate | unum: cut them all |
| 20:23.57 | unum | obama cuts nasa and bishop and bennet complain |
| 20:24.09 | unum | atleast I didn't hear about chaffetz complaining |
| 20:24.28 | unum | I'd take more like thim and less like bishop |
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| 20:24.38 | unum | of course it's not in his district |
| 20:24.46 | Gate | I like NASA, it is unfortunate to cut it, but I am not going to complain, because I think it is being run improperly |
| 20:25.28 | unum | I don't have as much trouble with the federal government running some things as other people |
| 20:25.34 | Gate | I do |
| 20:25.42 | unum | if I think it's good for the people I'm not so picky about who runs it |
| 20:26.06 | Gate | Simply because once a government takes power, it never gives it back. Then, it is only a matter of time before the power is abused |
| 20:26.09 | unum | I prefer more local control, but hey if my state doesn't do and the federal government does |
| 20:26.12 | unum | I'll take it |
| 20:26.35 | unum | I'm thinking about things like head start and job corps |
| 20:26.39 | unum | I like those programs |
| 20:26.49 | Jayce^ | wants to kill the boss that always schedules friday meetings at 11, which run until 1:00 + |
| 20:26.51 | unum | I could see why people would say they shouldn't be federal programs |
| 20:26.51 | Gate | I don't know too much about them in specific |
| 20:26.55 | unum | but it doesn't bother me |
| 20:26.58 | Jayce^ | finally gets to eat some lunch |
| 20:27.09 | unum | yuk, bad boss |
| 20:27.20 | Jayce^ | we hates it |
| 20:27.24 | unum | of course on tuesday I think I have one at 11 and an other at 1.... |
| 20:27.34 | Gate | unum: it bothers me because what works in Detriot or DC doesn't neccecarily work in Utah |
| 20:27.39 | Jayce^ | at least it's the *only* meeting of the week, but seriously lousy planning |
| 20:27.53 | Gate | Jayce^: just get him to cater it! |
| 20:28.05 | Jayce^ | awww, Walt Morrisson (frisbee inventor) died today. |
| 20:28.06 | unum | I like what they've done with parts of the welfare system |
| 20:28.08 | Jayce^ | Gate: I wish |
| 20:28.15 | unum | where the states control and the federal government funds it |
| 20:28.22 | unum | that doesn't bother me |
| 20:28.31 | Gate | unum: yuck. Wellfare is a disaster in every instance I have seen |
| 20:29.04 | Jayce^ | wants to wants to read the backlog and get invovled, but really shouldn't right now.. |
| 20:29.08 | Gate | and I whole-heartedly believe that is the job of communities and churches, not governments |
| 20:29.42 | Gate | Jayce^: Detroit sucks, government reliance, government finiacial stability, reasonable government programs |
| 20:29.49 | Gate | consider yourself caught up ;) |
| 20:29.56 | Jayce^ | "resonable govt" HAH :) |
| 20:30.04 | Jayce^ | there, my bit |
| 20:30.09 | Gate | true. |
| 20:30.14 | Jayce^ | bah, can't type, I'll blame low blood sugar.. |
| 20:30.23 | Jayce^ | grabs a dr. pepper Heritage.. |
| 20:30.24 | VoidByte | Detroit sucks because their mayor was a crminal and an idiot. Add in the fact that the people kept reelecting him. |
| 20:30.44 | Jayce^ | Picked a lousy time to quite soda again, right when the throwbacks came out |
| 20:30.52 | Jayce^ | arghhhh *really* can't type |
| 20:31.00 | Jayce^ | quite.. yeeesh |
| 20:31.20 | VoidByte | A lot of wellfare really isn't that bad. Things like wick and health care for children in most cases is used to help. In some cases it is abused but that is really a small percentage. |
| 20:31.48 | Jayce^ | VoidByte: but once again, better managed locally than federally |
| 20:32.33 | VoidByte | Managed, maybe, probably. Funded, doubtful. |
| 20:32.46 | Gate | there are always strings attached to that money |
| 20:32.48 | Gate | always. |
| 20:33.15 | fungus | federal funding w/o strings can lead to bad things. |
| 20:33.17 | fungus | See AIG |
| 20:33.42 | Jayce^ | Gate: yes there are |
| 20:33.44 | Gate | OK, second time you have mentioned AIG. Who just over-vigoriously did what the feds told them to do. |
| 20:34.01 | Jayce^ | fungus: and they should have never had federal money to start with.. even better |
| 20:34.12 | Gate | then get bailed out, try to fill their debts (contracts which require payment) then everyone gets mad |
| 20:34.21 | Gate | Jayce^: concur |
| 20:34.50 | Gate | I can't spell today either... |
| 20:35.12 | VoidByte | The soloution to the strings attached problem is to introduce an amendment that restricts bills to one topic, similar to what we had in the articles of confederation. |
| 20:35.43 | Jayce^ | VoidByte: that's a great one, there have been some good proposals for it too... |
| 20:35.47 | Gate | I think AIG should have been allowed to fail and the people who voted for the bills in the 90s should have been lynched |
| 20:36.02 | Jayce^ | gate, yup |
| 20:36.41 | Gate | VoidByte: that might stop the hemoragging a great multitude of problems |
| 20:36.44 | fungus | I mostly agree, but imagine the fallout of AIG failing |
| 20:37.04 | Gate | yeah, dozens of small, more stable banks buying assets |
| 20:37.17 | Gate | more competition, less bloat.... |
| 20:37.28 | fungus | Thousands of banks dependent on AIG would fail too |
| 20:37.42 | Jayce^ | fungus: yes they would, and lots of opportunity for growth in that |
| 20:37.47 | Jayce^ | it's a hard, but good thing |
| 20:37.48 | Gate | then AIG is a monopoly and should be broken up. |
| 20:37.54 | Gate | too big to fail my ass. |
| 20:38.16 | Jayce^ | too big to fail because China owned so much, and would see us letting it fail as nearly an act of war |
| 20:38.39 | Jayce^ | same thing we did to Russia and most of europe during the last bubble |
| 20:38.43 | fungus | Jayce^, true, FDIC would cover almost all of the peoples money they had in banks. |
| 20:38.47 | Jayce^ | we let them take the losses |
| 20:38.59 | Gate | the old, bloated companies must be shrunk or killed from time to time, because they can't keep up with a changing market |
| 20:39.05 | Jayce^ | fungus: until they went bankrupt (oh wait, they are anyways) |
| 20:39.27 | Jayce^ | small banks get to pay even more of a price for the big banks failings.. |
| 20:39.45 | Jayce^ | *getting* to pre-pay multiple years of FDIC premiums to try and cover losses |
| 20:39.55 | Jayce^ | hugs his credit union |
| 20:40.36 | fungus | credit unions have insurance too |
| 20:40.51 | harleypig | fungus: They do. But it's a different group. |
| 20:41.00 | fungus | yup |
| 20:41.04 | harleypig | And it's not as messed up. |
| 20:41.25 | Jayce^ | fungus: yes, and they don't screw things up as much.. but they still have to pay the price for FDIC screwups.. |
| 20:41.27 | fungus | I wonder if the bailout money to banks was greater than the money the FDIC would have had to pay out |
| 20:41.36 | harleypig | So. I've got my tax return nearly all spent. I need a decent set of headphones for work. Any recommendationts? |
| 20:41.41 | Jayce^ | can't deal with the fed (which you have to do now) unless you buy into FDIC |
| 20:42.09 | Jayce^ | harleypig: ping levi think we was recommending a few a while back.. |
| 20:42.16 | Jayce^ | and neybar had some good opinions on some too |
| 20:42.22 | harleypig | levi: ping! |
| 20:42.23 | Jayce^ | but you'd better not be buying *that* mouse |
| 20:42.46 | harleypig | Oh yeah! I need to switch to a trackball too. |
| 20:42.57 | levi | I have AKG k271s, but I think they've been superseded now. |
| 20:43.55 | harleypig | holy crap ... 262 on amazon (regular 539) ... wow! |
| 20:44.06 | harleypig | akg k702 |
| 20:44.14 | levi | I guess there's a k271 MkII now. |
| 20:44.22 | levi | Yeah, the 702s are nice. |
| 20:44.45 | sjansen | Jayce^: Perhaps the 11am meeting is deliberate. Without lunch to motivate people, perhaps it'd run from 1pm - 4pm. |
| 20:45.22 | Jayce^ | sjansen: no, the manager normally eats at 1:30 himself... most of the folks in it would be out by 11:10 if we could be.. |
| 20:45.22 | levi | There are a bunch of people that have K272s now. They're similar to the K271, but with nicer ear cups. |
| 20:46.24 | fungus | wow, those AKG phones look nice |
| 20:46.37 | harleypig | the akg ks71 mkiii is 165 |
| 20:46.43 | harleypig | err ... that'd be mkii |
| 20:47.15 | sjansen | F-Lock?! WTF?! As if numlock weren't annoying enough! |
| 20:47.28 | sjansen | ~lart Microsoft |
| 20:47.28 | ibot | beats Microsoft over the head with a microkernel |
| 20:47.55 | fungus | I agree, F numlock and F capslock... F 'em all |
| 20:48.05 | harleypig | Is there a way to search based on price on amazon? |
| 20:48.52 | harleypig | wtf?! Ear buds for $100!!! |
| 20:49.44 | harleypig | oh hey look! ... left hand column price links |
| 20:49.58 | sjansen | fungus: You misunderstand. Someone at MS had the "brilliant" idea to disable the Fn keys, adding an F-Lock key to toggle between a bunch of stuff I can already do using go old fashioned control key combos and the Fn keys I want. |
| 20:50.25 | fungus | No i didn't misunderstand. I just like to swear... |
| 20:51.01 | sjansen | You are right. Any key with "lock" in its name is perversion. |
| 20:51.17 | fungus | exactly |
| 20:53.03 | elg | i feel kinda jipped that I've never had any legitimate use for scroll lock. it always seemed like such a cool premise for a key |
| 20:53.22 | elg | but anytime i might have wanted to "scroll lock" something, the key wouldn't work. |
| 20:53.31 | elg | same with print screen, which is on my keyboard to this very day |
| 20:54.01 | elg | and i've never needed the pause/break key to break my computer. |
| 20:54.09 | sjansen | Print Screen works on my keyboard. You must be trapped in an inferior window manager. |
| 20:56.11 | sinuhe | sjansen: Is key management the job of the window manager, or the desktop environment tools? I would suggest an inferior installation, or a botch dependency package set (or configuration) of the desktop environment. |
| 20:56.34 | elg | really? print screen actually tries to print your screen? |
| 20:56.51 | elg | how bizarre. but I do admit I haven't tried in years. decades maybe |
| 20:57.27 | sjansen | is about to go into WTF overload |
| 20:58.07 | elg | sjansen: eat two lolkittehs and call me in the morning. |
| 20:58.16 | sjansen | What's up with the radical rights worship of the constitution as unchangeable scripture? |
| 20:58.31 | elg | didn't you get the memo? it *is* unchangeable scripture. |
| 20:58.31 | fungus | sinuhe, keyboards send scancodes, it's up to the app to decide what to do with them. |
| 20:58.32 | Jayce^ | ~mock sjansen |
| 20:58.32 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's pants down and shows the world sjansen's pink spotted underwear |
| 20:58.36 | elg | like qwerty |
| 20:59.42 | fungus | a window manager intercepting the print screen scan code is a wonderful idea |
| 21:00.06 | Jayce^ | just wrote one of the scariest pieces of code he's ever done.. probably a side effect of the whole lunch thing :) |
| 21:00.25 | Gate | Jayce^: Kill the GOTO before it takes control |
| 21:00.36 | sjansen | I mean I'd understand if George Washington had discovered it laying in the potomac, written on stone tablets by the finger of good. But come on! It was designed to adapt to the changing needs of the country, not forever rank blacks as a fraction of a person! |
| 21:00.37 | Zelut | sits back and waits for sjansen to have a stroke.. |
| 21:01.49 | Jayce^ | ah sjansen, forever trolling |
| 21:02.52 | Gate | sjansen: simple. The constitution limits the goverment to a set of tasks allocating *all* others to the states and people |
| 21:04.06 | sjansen | Gate: So? |
| 21:04.50 | Gate | those limits have been violated constantly for 60 years, with drastic consequences. Therefore, we wish to return the government to its leagal place. |
| 21:04.50 | sjansen | Why does that make it unacceptable to refer to the constitution as a "living document"? |
| 21:05.13 | sjansen | You wish to change the topic. |
| 21:05.24 | Gate | because that is used as an excuse to write into it whatever crap they want |
| 21:05.46 | Gate | whether it be some drivvel about gay marriage or authorization to become the socialist utopia |
| 21:06.21 | sjansen | So you're allowed to interpret it however the crap you want, but no one else can disagree? Very patriotic of you. The embodiment of the American ideal. |
| 21:06.29 | Jayce^ | because "living document" ties in with the concepts of precedence, vs the establishement of natural law |
| 21:07.08 | Jayce^ | sjansen: he never said that, you just like to twist it into such to self validate |
| 21:07.37 | Gate | sjansen: flame war much? |
| 21:08.06 | sjansen | Sorry. Sorry. I keep forgetting only the right is allowed to interpret. I should just repeat. Theirs is to know, mine is to listen. |
| 21:08.06 | Jayce^ | Gate: his favorite pastime... |
| 21:08.08 | elg | speed of travel and communication, the spread of community (how many states are we in this room in?)... this world is not the world in which the constitution was written. "states" "cities" "federal" are not what they were. is it any surprise that the document written for 13 states of horseback has had to adapt for 50 states of internet? |
| 21:08.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen: no, they allow discussion, not mandate :) |
| 21:08.39 | sjansen | Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. |
| 21:09.10 | Jayce^ | elg: the same model would work, it's that some people want very different results than what was designed, and have changed it thusly |
| 21:09.21 | Jayce^ | sjansen: it's the same thing you are practicing against him |
| 21:09.22 | elg | i disagree |
| 21:09.39 | Jayce^ | what wouldn't work with the it? |
| 21:09.41 | elg | the FF were never united on some unified wholesome conservative vision |
| 21:09.54 | elg | i disagree with your interpretation of the changes and the motivations behind them. |
| 21:09.55 | Jayce^ | elg: and as if that was required? |
| 21:10.08 | sjansen | You know that thing that bugs me most? The American right accusing the left of being a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls, when the right is just as bad and less able to take it. |
| 21:10.10 | elg | it was not, and has not been as the constitution has been adapted to the changes of history |
| 21:10.27 | Gate | elg: the constitution is much about a set of principals of goverment performing certain tasks that are required to protect a free society, and NOT perforing tasks that inhibit a free society |
| 21:10.32 | Jayce^ | sjansen: really? "they're whiners, we're not"... yeah that works.. |
| 21:11.14 | Gate | elg: it has been adapted, in some cases I think tha adaptations were and are serious problems. |
| 21:11.15 | elg | not interesting in arguing what the constitution is or isn't. I'm just saying it's got a good track record in being a living document and I think that's a good thing. |
| 21:11.26 | neybar | sjansen: what makes you say that either the extreme right or left is more or less self-righteous? It seems to me that both are pretty bad, and both are babies when they aren't the one in power. |
| 21:11.33 | sjansen | Jayce^: I'm illustrating my point. |
| 21:11.43 | Jayce^ | sjansen: you always are illustrating it |
| 21:12.12 | sjansen | You haven't noticed that my favorite technique is to reflect and redirect? |
| 21:12.16 | elg | sjansen: your beard illustrates it |
| 21:12.53 | Jayce^ | as I said |
| 21:12.56 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:13.11 | Jayce^ | and in the same way, you know I hate it, and avoid it |
| 21:13.15 | levi | I want that gadget demonstrated at TED that shoots down mosquitos with a laser. |
| 21:13.25 | levi | I think that's something we can all get behind. |
| 21:13.26 | Jayce^ | levi: haven't seen that one yet |
| 21:13.33 | Jayce^ | what kinda laser? :D |
| 21:13.34 | elg | better behind it than in front |
| 21:13.46 | harleypig | That's it ... buzz is off! |
| 21:13.49 | Gate | sjansen: "reflect and redirect"? you effectively called me a fascist for holding a strong interpretation of the constitution. |
| 21:13.55 | Jayce^ | harleypig: took you that long? wow |
| 21:14.19 | levi | 50-100 mosquitoes per second, and it can specify species and gender of the bugs to target. |
| 21:14.27 | elg | wow |
| 21:14.28 | harleypig | You know me ... hell ... I gave Suzanne 3.5 years! |
| 21:14.32 | Jayce^ | now that's cool |
| 21:14.33 | sjansen | But seriously, what's wrong with teaching our children "the genius of our founding fathers was recognizing their own imperfection and creating a constitution that could be continually adapted and perfected"? |
| 21:14.40 | levi | Built out of parts scrounged from eBay. |
| 21:14.52 | elg | sjansen: because it sounds like evolution. |
| 21:14.52 | levi | I think from a disc player and a laser printer. |
| 21:15.06 | Jayce^ | sjansen: I do teach that, but also cover what it needs to be changed for, and what not :) |
| 21:15.34 | sjansen | Gate: Yes, yes I did. Perhaps when you get over your anger, you'll start to notice how much the most vocal members of the right sound like fascists. |
| 21:15.38 | Jayce^ | because most that view wanting change approach it as limits that must be broken, not preserved |
| 21:15.38 | levi | They've got slow-mo closeup videos of mosquitos getting fried in-flight. |
| 21:15.39 | Gate | ok, at some point you stopped listening to what I was saying and started filling it in with Republican attacks, instead of my statments. |
| 21:16.26 | harleypig | levi: link? |
| 21:16.28 | levi | Fundamentalist libertarians are generally almost as ashamed of the Republicans as the Democrats. |
| 21:16.40 | levi | http://intellectualventureslab.com/ |
| 21:16.40 | Gate | sjansen: the "right" (being republicans) do, quite often. They are only slightly less big-government than the democrats. I, note, am not a Republican. |
| 21:16.42 | elg | yawn. people in #utah with differing political viewpoints. not new. |
| 21:16.46 | harleypig | Radical Moderates Unite! |
| 21:16.49 | Jayce^ | levi: yeah, most indepentants feel that way |
| 21:17.02 | sjansen | Gate: Because you changed the topic first. It's impossible to hold a discussion with someone that prefers sound bites, so might as well walk away or join in. |
| 21:17.07 | sjansen | I'm not good at walking away. |
| 21:17.17 | elg | sjansen: you should get a segway |
| 21:17.21 | elg | then you can seg away |
| 21:17.30 | harleypig | ~slap elg |
| 21:17.30 | ibot | ACTION slaps elg, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:17.46 | harleypig | that was a nasty bad pun :D |
| 21:17.54 | Jayce^ | liked it |
| 21:18.03 | Jayce^ | better than his recent musical ones... :-p |
| 21:18.06 | elg | compounded by the apropos reference to the word segue |
| 21:18.13 | elg | i'm quite proud of it. |
| 21:18.22 | sjansen | ~punish elg |
| 21:18.23 | ibot | ACTION forces elg to install and use Windows |
| 21:18.31 | harleypig | You got me groaning ... that takes some doing. |
| 21:18.35 | Gate | sjansen: this is IRC, multiple conversations happen simultaneously. |
| 21:18.40 | Jayce^ | harleypig: give him the bulb? |
| 21:18.47 | harleypig | definitely |
| 21:19.01 | harleypig | gives elg The Dim Bulb of Intelligence |
| 21:19.11 | harleypig | or, whatever it was. Don't remember atm |
| 21:19.26 | elg | whatever it is, i shall magnify it and set it upon a hill |
| 21:19.27 | Jayce^ | the 4-watt bulb-of-brilliance |
| 21:19.40 | Jayce^ | it was our gamer-night award for the best/worst pun |
| 21:20.27 | harleypig | levi: that link isn't loading |
| 21:20.41 | levi | It's probably slashdotted right now. |
| 21:20.44 | neybar | Jayce^: I think I was awarded the bulb once apon a time. |
| 21:20.54 | levi | I loaded it early this morning, but it showed up on Slashdot recently. |
| 21:20.59 | elg | evaporates into the ether |
| 21:21.03 | tensai | a 4 watt led bulb wouldn't be so bad |
| 21:21.06 | harleypig | I'm in the mood for a lan party ... |
| 21:21.35 | sjansen | Gate: Either you're lying to cover for yourself, or you have a very short attention span. |
| 21:21.37 | sjansen | <Gate> sjansen: simple. The constitution limits the goverment to a set of tasks allocating *all* others to the states and people |
| 21:21.50 | Jayce^ | tensai: yeah, the joke gets weaker with led's... |
| 21:21.52 | Gate | OK? so? |
| 21:21.58 | Jayce^ | it was just one of the old night light bulbs.. |
| 21:22.05 | sjansen | Sure looks like an attempt to sidetrack the topic instead of a parrallel conversation. |
| 21:22.19 | sjansen | That of you actually thought it was a counter argument. |
| 21:22.24 | sjansen | Which is just plain dumb. |
| 21:22.55 | Gate | as I read the history, you changed the conversation to be about a speech that Obama made |
| 21:23.05 | Gate | no, that was an answer to a question |
| 21:23.22 | sjansen | Okay, so you're delusional. I guess that could've explained it too. |
| 21:23.28 | sjansen | When did I mention Obama? |
| 21:23.47 | Gate | You quoted his speech. I thought the reference was clear. |
| 21:23.50 | harleypig | Arguing about what was said instead of clarifying what you meant is just the beginning of the path to "YOU SUCK!" "NO YOU SUCK!" |
| 21:24.08 | sjansen | (Hint: Here comes to first time.) Why is it people in Utah are so bloody blinded by hatred of Obama to the point is turning off their brains? |
| 21:24.11 | Gate | harleypig: agreed, I am just trying to figure out what is going on now |
| 21:24.57 | Gate | sjansen: sigh. You quote him, I respond to the IDEA, not the man. |
| 21:25.07 | sjansen | Gate: I didn no such thing. Every word was mine, although admitted a restating of many high school and college civics lessons. |
| 21:26.23 | sjansen | Is the concept really so controversial that it automatically triggers a response to counter a statement I didn't even make? |
| 21:26.28 | Gate | "(14:04:50) sjansen: Why does that make it unacceptable to refer to the constitution as a "living document"?", the most recent incident of that statement was specifically quoted by Obama, a strong proponent of a loose constitutional interpretation |
| 21:26.47 | Gate | I responded to the idea, and somehow this escalated |
| 21:27.09 | Gate | I will admit to being distracted, but I thought I was following the conversation |
| 21:27.15 | sjansen | Is the concept of a living constitution so intimately tied to centralized federal power that it becomes anathema by association? |
| 21:27.20 | sjansen | 'Cause that's just sad. |
| 21:28.03 | Gate | The two are generally closely linked. Loose interpretations of the constitution used for centralizing power, strict for reduced central power. |
| 21:29.00 | sjansen | They're linked because you allow them to be linked. |
| 21:29.35 | sjansen | I, for one, am not willing to reject our nation's ability to adapt just to counter increasing federal power. |
| 21:30.17 | Gate | I used the words "generally liked" not absolutely linked. |
| 21:30.19 | sjansen | The concepts are orthogonal. |
| 21:30.58 | harleypig | sjansen: and pathological |
| 21:31.28 | sjansen | My problem with the right is they're fighting all the wrong fights right now. |
| 21:31.44 | Gate | wrong by your definition. |
| 21:32.31 | harleypig | sjansen, Gate: both the left and the right are fighting for the same thing, regardless of their claims. The total domination and subjugation of humanity. |
| 21:32.45 | Gate | harleypig: concur. |
| 21:32.49 | Gate | ;) |
| 21:33.07 | sjansen | You don't reduce federal power by attacking the constitution. You attack it by killing a hugely expensive federal drug subsidy. (Oh, wait, that was acceptable because it won Republicans votes even if it was a betrayal of their so-called ideals.) |
| 21:33.48 | harleypig | I think carpet bombin strategic locations with kinetic energy weapons from low earth orbit would solve the problem nicely. |
| 21:33.53 | Gate | sjansen: attacking the constitution? |
| 21:33.56 | Jayce^ | sjansen: hardly.. hate that, and all that it was built on :) |
| 21:34.17 | Jayce^ | harleypig: just emp, problems will solve themselves real quick... |
| 21:34.33 | Jayce^ | especially with the >%60 results that would happen.. |
| 21:34.47 | tensai | wonders if the nsa/google is listening |
| 21:34.56 | Gate | sjansen: I have attempted to make my position on the Republican party clear, but you appear to have completely ignored everything I have said, except phrases you choose to attack. |
| 21:34.57 | Jayce^ | of course they are :) |
| 21:35.00 | tensai | ~echelon fodder |
| 21:35.00 | ibot | well, echelon fodder is Bush, Uranium, Dirty Bomb, Jihad, Allah Akbar, TNT, Rent a van, assassination , NSA, wiretaps, sleeper cell, suicide bomb, vest, Oklahoma City, Waco, revenge, anthrax, virgins, fuse, great celebration, July 4th, detcord, martyr, timer, backpack, subway. Ruby Ridge, or kill all infidels |
| 21:35.05 | harleypig | tensai: bomb president kill terrorist |
| 21:35.06 | Zelut | tensai: i think that's pretty much guaranteed at this point. |
| 21:35.09 | Gate | tensai: big brother sees you. |
| 21:35.22 | harleypig | that needs to be changed to add Obama |
| 21:35.31 | Jayce^ | dont' forget, you can expect that cell phone privacy too :-p |
| 21:35.46 | harleypig | there is no cell phone privacy |
| 21:35.51 | neybar | the problem I have with the definitions of "left" and "right" as I see it, are that they really aren't polar opposites. it seems to me that they are mainly pulling in the same general politial direction (they just have different routes to get there). When you claim to be moderate, or conservative it is hard to explain because you can't use either the left or the right to define yourself. |
| 21:35.54 | harleypig | They're just trying to make legal what they're already doing |
| 21:36.09 | Jayce^ | harleypig: no no, "no reasonable expectation of privacy".. important wording |
| 21:36.16 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 21:36.23 | Jayce^ | more of the same... |
| 21:36.24 | harleypig | neybar: that's why you should claim to be a radical moderate |
| 21:36.37 | neybar | harleypig: yeah I like it... what does it mean? : |
| 21:36.39 | neybar | :) |
| 21:36.40 | Jayce^ | harleypig: or just claim to be yourself, that's the best one |
| 21:36.43 | harleypig | Jayce^: No one should have a reasonable expectation of privacy as things stand now! |
| 21:37.05 | Jayce^ | harleypig: the wording is important because of previous cases/rulings |
| 21:37.14 | neybar | harleypig: it's sort of like saying your extra-medium. |
| 21:37.31 | Jayce^ | it also then allows federal privacy from citizens.. |
| 21:37.46 | harleypig | neybar: It means I'm willing to listen and think for myself. anathema to current political standards. |
| 21:37.52 | Jayce^ | neybar: kinda like the phrase "It's a little big"... always bugs me |
| 21:38.17 | Gate | neybar: I am a Libertarian Conservative Outward-Bounder! |
| 21:38.27 | Gate | ;) |
| 21:38.27 | harleypig | wtf is an outward bounder! |
| 21:38.38 | Jayce^ | I am Spartacus |
| 21:38.41 | Gate | Its a term from a Charles Sheffield novel |
| 21:38.56 | Jayce^ | ruh oh, a book harleypig hasnt' read... |
| 21:39.04 | Gate | referring to people who strongly advocate the expansion of the human race outside of the Sol system |
| 21:39.18 | Jayce^ | and sci-fi.. |
| 21:39.20 | Jayce^ | he's doomed |
| 21:39.40 | Gate | who, him or me? |
| 21:39.52 | Jayce^ | harleypig... you mentioned sci-fi that he's not familiar with.. |
| 21:40.01 | Jayce^ | he's already looked it up on amazon now |
| 21:40.05 | Gate | oh |
| 21:40.20 | Gate | Cold as Ice then Dark as Day |
| 21:41.08 | sjansen | The Republican party has killed all the true conservatives. The few remaining are hiding in mountain cabins and desert caves. |
| 21:42.02 | Gate | give us time, we will beat them back into pretending to be conservative |
| 21:42.30 | Jayce^ | sjansen: they are politics, plain and simple.. what the party did I think is for the better.. easier to show whats wrong to folks now :) |
| 21:42.33 | sjansen | They were betrayed by Ayn Rand and driven into hiding by Rush Limbaugh. |
| 21:42.50 | Jayce^ | more people are willing to wake up and say "screw them" |
| 21:43.02 | Gate | sigh. I won't ask what you mean anymore sjansen, you enjoy flaming too much. |
| 21:43.17 | neybar | what I find frustrating, is the current crop of self proclaimed conservative republicans. Some are pretty good and seem to be sincere, and are just using the republicans as the most convenient party to get backing from, others are riding the bandwagon. I really wish we could get a third (or fourth) party that really had a shot at getting elected. |
| 21:44.11 | harleypig | -curse Gate |
| 21:44.13 | Jayce^ | a lot are just trying to glom onto votes.. politicians.. like used car salesmen and trial lawyers (many of which are both :) ) |
| 21:44.18 | harleypig | ~curse Gate |
| 21:44.19 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Gate ! |
| 21:44.27 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024_ (~blendmast@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 21:44.34 | harleypig | My reading stack just got bigger |
| 21:44.37 | Gate | neybar: it hapeens from time to time, with mixed results. I have hopes that the Tea Party movement will shape up nicely to a good end |
| 21:45.00 | Gate | harleypig: Charles Sheffield is a fantastic author |
| 21:45.08 | Gate | well grounded hard-sf |
| 21:45.56 | harleypig | there needs to be a 'Add Everything From This Author To My List' button on Amazon |
| 21:46.35 | Gate | well, most of his books are going out of print |
| 21:47.01 | Jayce^ | neybar: figure Perot made a good stab at it with his percentage, but the "movement" got taken over, nicely at first (contract for america), but even then it was back to the same game.. |
| 21:47.02 | Gate | Cold as Ice, then Dark as Day is my reccomended starter |
| 21:47.10 | harleypig | Yeah, the one you referenced is unavailable on amazon |
| 21:47.13 | Gate | :( |
| 21:47.22 | Jayce^ | harleypig: library? |
| 21:47.36 | Jayce^ | ping mike too, he might have it |
| 21:47.38 | harleypig | Jayce^: li-bra-y? |
| 21:47.46 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:48.03 | Gate | unlikely. His books weren't very popular. He is *very* hard science fiction, meaning is provides logical progression from known physics and technology to his world |
| 21:48.19 | blendmaster1024 | Gate: i'm on a hackintosh!! :):):) |
| 21:48.45 | sjansen | Gate: You're right that I enjoy trolling. A skill I learned most effectively from bombastic right-wing entertainers masquerading as patriots while betraying it for ratings. |
| 21:49.27 | Gate | sjansen: sigh. They are on the left, too. |
| 21:49.40 | Gate | K.E.I.T.H O.L.B.E.R.M.A.N.N |
| 21:49.57 | sjansen | Gate: But here in Utah I don't have to put up with their brainwashed minions as often. |
| 21:50.00 | Gate | Nacy Grace, the loud mouth hatemonger |
| 21:50.08 | Jayce^ | Gate: that's the whole art of why he stated it that way |
| 21:50.27 | sjansen | I'm sure my allergic reaction would be just as strong in the opposite direction if I lived near a coast. |
| 21:50.39 | Gate | I know, I can recognize when I am being baited. I just don't always have the control to keep my mouth shut. |
| 21:50.41 | tensai | pushes sjansen into the ocean |
| 21:50.49 | Gate | haha |
| 21:51.06 | Zelut | might pay to see that. |
| 21:51.23 | Jayce^ | sjansen: probably why I get so touchy about it, coming from where I did.. hang out on bainbridge for a while and you want to crawl out of your skin.. |
| 21:51.31 | neybar | So does anyone have any strong opinions on CMS's? I'm looking at installing Drupal. It seems to be pretty good option. |
| 21:51.45 | tensai | neybar: I use it. works fine, imho. |
| 21:51.46 | Jayce^ | neybar: you ask about strong opinions, in here????? |
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| 21:51.59 | Jayce^ | and you mention a php app around sjansen .. |
| 21:52.06 | neybar | I know, I thought I would ask a more technical question on #utahpolitics. |
| 21:52.10 | sjansen | CMSs are like straight jackets. Your needs have to be pretty generic for a CMS to be a good fit. |
| 21:52.28 | Jayce^ | neybar: what'd you think of the "heritage" btw? |
| 21:52.43 | neybar | Jayce^: what do you mean |
| 21:52.56 | Jayce^ | the can you 'yoinked' from me after plug |
| 21:53.10 | neybar | oh right :). I like it. |
| 21:53.43 | neybar | sjansen: that is probably true, but I can push off the content creation aspect to someone that's not me... |
| 21:54.50 | Gate | neybar: I was impressed by refinerycms, which is in rails. But its following is rather small, I think |
| 21:59.38 | sjansen | If it were me, I'd pick something based on Django or Rails so that when the inevitable customizing is required I'd be less likely to want to beat my head against a brick wall. |
| 22:00.22 | Gate | or, pick something *very* popular so that most customization cases are available as plugins |
| 22:03.45 | sjansen | Which generally means something PHP-based. So be sure to schedule maintenance for the inevitable security holes and incompatible upgrades. |
| 22:04.00 | Gate | E.G. Wordpress |
| 22:04.19 | Gate | insanely popular, so lots of plugins available, from what I understand |
| 22:08.17 | Jayce^ | now both sjansen and Gate are correct :) |
| 22:08.34 | Gate | muahahahaha |
| 22:08.43 | Gate | anyone else tried refinerycms? |
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| 22:13.12 | tensai | gives Jayce^ getting hit on the head lessons |
| 22:21.51 | unum | http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html?pagewanted=all |
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| 22:22.06 | unum | I think that explains my #1 one reason for supporting open source text books |
| 22:26.10 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I agree with your comment about PHP CMSes. I haven't had much experience with Drupal, but Joomla is one exploitable vulnerability after another... and it's not just Joomla, but its third-party extensions. |
| 22:27.09 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Drupal is worse... it has many more third-party extensions, and the quality varies *dramatically* from one to another |
| 22:27.35 | jsmith | fozzmoo: (and I swear, none of the authors has a clue about proper database design) |
| 22:29.46 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 22:29.50 | fozzmoo | Okay. Par for the course. |
| 22:30.19 | jsmith | It's too bad Plone has lost so much momentum... |
| 22:30.24 | fozzmoo | I'm browsing some perlmonks discussion about CMSes and there seems to be some praise for LucidCMS - another PHP creation. |
| 22:30.27 | Gate | many programmers just want the database to do all the work without optimizing or even constructing the data reasonably |
| 22:30.44 | jsmith | Gate: You think? |
| 22:30.51 | fozzmoo | Another person suggested metadot |
| 22:30.52 | Gate | I think. |
| 22:30.55 | fozzmoo | http://www.metadot.com/ |
| 22:31.13 | Gate | I have had to fix many situations where that was true. |
| 22:31.41 | fozzmoo | Lucid doesn't seem like it's been updated recently. That's another issue a lot of these projects have. |
| 22:31.58 | sjansen | neybar: After looking at the options a few years ago, it ended up being easier to write my own simple CMS in Django. If I were starting again from scratch, here's where I'd probably start: http://spinlock.ch/pub/feincms/html/ |
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| 22:32.35 | jsmith | Gate: My latest favorite in Drupal is where the developers have been arguing for over two years about how to eliminate duplicate rows being returned from certain database queries. They go back and forth arguing about the proper way to have Drupal rewrite certain queries on the fly to add "DISTINCT" to the query. Another person comes along, writes a three-line patch that fixes the join that caused the duplicates in the first |
| 22:32.36 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:33.06 | Gate | haha |
| 22:33.46 | Gate | I have rewritten hundreds of lines of bad sql at a time |
| 22:33.55 | jsmith | Many of us have |
| 22:34.06 | jsmith | "The ancient oriental art of data massage" |
| 22:34.35 | Gate | select * from x inner join y on y.id=x.y_id where x.user='constant' |
| 22:34.51 | Gate | I have fixed that same damned query in a hundred-thousand flavors |
| 22:34.55 | fozzmoo | DBIx::Class++ |
| 22:36.05 | tensai | Gate: expound on that would you? I have an idea as to the problem. |
| 22:36.19 | Gate | if x is large than the query is inefficient |
| 22:36.30 | Gate | because of the constant in the where clause |
| 22:36.34 | sjansen | Ugh. After working with Django for a year, I went back to translate some DBIx::Class code I'd written and it looked like verbose vomit. |
| 22:36.55 | Gate | gets worse as more inner joins are added, as an inner join is effectively a multiplication |
| 22:38.42 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Does Django provide some magic ORM? |
| 22:38.58 | fozzmoo | This looks interesting: http://www.cyclone3.org/ |
| 22:39.15 | Gate | select * from (select * from x where user='constant') z inner join y on y.id=z.y_id |
| 22:39.34 | sjansen | Magic? Not any more. They removed the magic years ago. http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/RemovingTheMagic |
| 22:39.43 | sjansen | :-P |
| 22:39.45 | Gate | tensai: that principal alone has taken queries from 45m to 45s |
| 22:39.53 | fozzmoo | blinks and then blinks again |
| 22:39.57 | Gate | (they were REALLY big queries) |
| 22:40.13 | Gate | with betweeen 8-10 inner joins |
| 22:40.57 | Gate | tables ranged in size from 20,000 rows to 2 million |
| 22:41.13 | sjansen | fozzmoo: You're staring at the Firefox blond aren't you? |
| 22:41.26 | Gate | whenever you can select against a constant, do it as early as possible to reduce your working set |
| 22:41.58 | fozzmoo | sjansen: No, I was reading Django's documentation on "Models" |
| 22:42.15 | Gate | tensai: thesuperbigfrog other principal is: subqueries are the devil. |
| 22:42.20 | Gate | wait, what the hell |
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| 22:42.38 | Gate | that should the "the other principal" |
| 22:43.28 | fozzmoo | FWIW, the Fun with SQL presentation at UTOSC 2009 was pretty dang cool... |
| 22:43.45 | fozzmoo | (even if we didn't get good audio of it.) |
| 22:43.47 | Gate | I think I was there, yeah. quite fun |
| 22:43.53 | fozzmoo | It's on YouTube now. |
| 22:44.29 | tensai | came in late for that one |
| 22:44.36 | tensai | ~eggyknap++ |
| 22:44.51 | eggyknap | Ooo... I'm on youtube? W00t :) |
| 22:45.04 | fozzmoo | The guys runing the cameras came in late too. I think they missed the first couple of minutes. |
| 22:45.16 | fozzmoo | eggyknap: Yeah, like 2 weeks ago. Where you been? |
| 22:45.20 | eggyknap | fozzmoo: out of curiosity, is there anything I could have done better for the audio as presenter? |
| 22:45.26 | eggyknap | I've been not paying attention :) |
| 22:45.35 | fozzmoo | eggyknap: No, someone simply didn't capture audio from the mic you were wearing. |
| 22:45.44 | eggyknap | Gotcha :) I figured as much, but wanted to make sure. |
| 22:45.50 | fozzmoo | Most likely because it was the first presentation in that room for the conference. |
| 22:46.17 | Jayce^ | did I miss something? http://www.google.com/finance?q=OTC:SCOXQ |
| 22:46.18 | fozzmoo | The audio feed from the cameras isn't *that* bad... I picked up most everything you said. |
| 22:46.45 | fozzmoo | But there was a problem with one of the cameras, so most of the presentation is from one angle. |
| 22:46.56 | fozzmoo | Again, I think the guys were working out the bugs. |
| 22:47.19 | fozzmoo | They didn't know their camera would go into "demo mode" if it didn't have a tape in it and left on. |
| 22:47.26 | sjansen | I didn't know SCO stock was still trading. |
| 22:47.31 | fozzmoo | (We were capturing via firewire straight to HDD) |
| 22:48.37 | Jayce^ | sjansen: looking at the history, it hasnt' been, except today |
| 22:48.56 | Jayce^ | (generalization, yes, but that's a bit of change for one ordinary day) |
| 22:49.04 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: What inspired you to go digging? |
| 22:49.11 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo: a friend |
| 22:51.11 | tensai | Jayce^: darl? |
| 22:52.29 | Jayce^ | heh.. right :) |
| 22:53.08 | Gate | harleypig: have you ever read anything by Charles Sheffield? |
| 22:54.20 | harleypig | Gate: I don't think so |
| 22:54.41 | harleypig | I don't recognize any of the titles, but I like what I'm seeing in the blurbs. |
| 22:54.56 | Gate | OK, well, if you do let me know. It would be nice to know there are other souls out there that enjoy his books. |
| 22:55.17 | tensai | it's funny that sco links to this article as a positive one. http://blogs.computerworld.com/14597/the_sco_zombie_wins_one |
| 22:55.44 | Jayce^ | hey, when you're that desperate... |
| 22:56.45 | fozzmoo | I didn't know this, but apparently, "every scientist in the world believes" higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is responsible for devestating earthquakes and tsunamis. |
| 22:57.07 | fozzmoo | I wish they taught me how to think in college because this higher logic stuff just evades me. |
| 22:57.49 | Gate | Didn't you know that? and cooler temperatures are just a sign of warming |
| 22:58.24 | Gate | fozzmoo: where/who said that? |
| 22:58.44 | sjansen | Nice misrepresentation. |
| 22:58.53 | fozzmoo | Gate: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/02/09/brilliant-vagina-monologues-creator-tells-palin-look-earthquakes-and-tsun |
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| 22:59.33 | fozzmoo | I mean, considering who's doing the talking, there's not much weight to be had... |
| 22:59.43 | fozzmoo | But still... |
| 22:59.52 | Gate | thanks sjansen, I do pride myself on gross oversimplification. |
| 23:00.01 | sjansen | is disappointed it wasn't an a link to a facebook comment |
| 23:00.25 | Gate | anything that leads with "every scientist" is, in general, a lie. |
| 23:00.40 | sjansen | Gate: Tetchy, tetchy, tetchy. |
| 23:01.09 | fozzmoo | Think what you want about Sarah Palin, but you've got to wonder when some progressive talking head says someone is wrong because "their intelligence is not yet evolved." |
| 23:01.24 | sjansen | I'm referring to the opinion that a single credible scientists ever said anything about CO2 and earthquakes. |
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| 23:01.44 | fozzmoo | I imagine if you pumped a lot of CO2 into the ground, it might cause some seismic activity. |
| 23:01.49 | Gate | I know. That is one research paper I could devour ;) |
| 23:02.35 | Gate | Sigh. Isn't it sad when the science was forgotten decades ago, and now all we have are politicians in labcoats? |
| 23:02.44 | Gate | loves segways |
| 23:03.20 | fozzmoo | Heh heh. I Love this comment on that newsbuster's page: How can someone be so dumb as to misinterpret a geological event as a meterological event? She is thinking with the wrong part of her body! |
| 23:03.45 | sjansen | Uhm... Since when did Eve Ensler have any influence on progressive policy? She might have a head an know how to talk, but hardly rises to the influence of such greats as Coulter, Limbaugh or Beck. |
| 23:04.31 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I agree. I guess Behar didn't get the memo. |
| 23:05.04 | harleypig | Wow. I ordered my Nexus One this morning and I just got an email saying it'd been shipped. |
| 23:05.19 | sjansen | Now if Jon Stewart had said it, it might have been newsworthy. |
| 23:06.09 | sjansen | As it stands, it boils down to $random_person says something stupid. |
| 23:06.17 | harleypig | Random thought: Captcha I got a while ago ... 'monkeys fisting joyfully' |
| 23:06.24 | harleypig | it's never come up again *sigh* |
| 23:06.38 | fungus | lol |
| 23:06.38 | fozzmoo | Yeah- but if JS had said it, we could always say, "Oh, he's just being funny." |
| 23:06.50 | fozzmoo | "He doesn't actually believe that!" |
| 23:07.21 | fozzmoo | "He's just mocking some liberal windbag... like John Kerry or... who's that Vagina lady? Oh yeah. Eve Enslar." |
| 23:07.22 | sjansen | Who is Joy Behar? |
| 23:07.48 | tensai | sjansen: from The View |
| 23:07.48 | sjansen | Ah, The View. |
| 23:07.56 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Self-proclaimed comedienne. Does day time TV talk. Probably been in a movie or two w/ Whoppie Goldberg or something. |
| 23:08.18 | sjansen | Such a shame Barbara Walters has lent her prestige to such forgettable drivel. :-( |
| 23:08.43 | fozzmoo | The View is a little murky. |
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| 23:11.01 | fozzmoo | Wow. Death by Luge. that's... terrible. |
| 23:13.07 | harleypig | Mistyping google.com is not advisable if you replace both g's with b's. |
| 23:13.40 | tensai | harleypig: now there's a slip freud would be proud of |
| 23:13.59 | harleypig | It's easy to do ... b is right below g on the keyboard. |
| 23:14.02 | harleypig | tensai: :> yeah |
| 23:14.59 | fozzmoo | swaps B and G keys. |
| 23:15.33 | tensai | B is no good. too many sharps. |
| 23:18.53 | sjansen | Don't you mean "G is no bood. too many sharps." |
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| 23:40.07 | harleypig | hey whiskey man, you're running as hard as you can |
| 23:40.27 | harleypig | you drink your whiskey too much more than you can stand |
| 23:40.45 | harleypig | you have your highs, you have your loas |
| 23:40.50 | harleypig | nobody knows which way you go |
| 23:42.05 | sontek | drinks to that |
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