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| 00:10.06 | ti`ocpi | So, I need to get a new used car. Can anybody give me advice? |
| 00:15.22 | fozzmoo | ti`ocpi: Have you looked at CraigsList? |
| 00:15.47 | Tene | She's specifically looking for advice on models or types of cars to look for or avoid. |
| 00:16.05 | fozzmoo | Oh. Stay away from American cars. :) |
| 00:16.11 | fozzmoo | That's my general sentiment. |
| 00:16.16 | blendmaster1024_ | yeah. try one of them martian cars. |
| 00:16.36 | fozzmoo | Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, etc. |
| 00:16.58 | fozzmoo | I like Subaru, myself, which could come in handy the next time Tene is facing a retaining wall. |
| 00:17.09 | Tene | It *was* a subaru! |
| 00:17.23 | fozzmoo | Oh. I didn't know that. |
| 00:17.31 | eightyeight | http://firstpersontetris.com |
| 00:17.32 | brac | [First-Person Tetris] |
| 00:24.26 | unum | toyota |
| 00:24.56 | unum | actually make a decision about a car depends a lot on use |
| 00:25.02 | unum | do you ever plan on towing anything |
| 00:26.53 | ti`ocpi | unum: Nope. |
| 00:27.07 | ti`ocpi | fozzmoo: I'm looking at Craigslist right now :D |
| 00:27.22 | ti`ocpi | In fact, the two I'm looking at are this one: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/for/1553019609.html |
| 00:27.27 | fozzmoo | Honda Civic... Toyota Camry... |
| 00:27.32 | ti`ocpi | and this one: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/cto/1548616644.html |
| 00:27.45 | fozzmoo | They're cheap, good on gas, lots of them around so they're not too bad to fix when you need to. |
| 00:27.59 | ti`ocpi | The second one is nearly identical to what my car was - except mine wasn't manual and was green, not red. |
| 00:28.06 | fozzmoo | Mazda 3s are nice. My wife almost got one. |
| 00:28.32 | fozzmoo | Subarus are nice, especially in the snow, but you have to baby them. |
| 00:28.52 | fozzmoo | We bought my wife a new Subaru, our fourth, instead of a Mazda. |
| 00:28.55 | ti`ocpi | On that Mazda 3, what does this mean: "2.3L 160HP 4 cylinder mated to a 4 speed automatic transmission w/overdrive and selectable manual sequential gearbox option" |
| 00:29.23 | fozzmoo | It means it has an automatic transmission, but it has a mode where you can manually shift between gears kind of like a manual. |
| 00:29.26 | ti`ocpi | took very good care of her Suby |
| 00:29.28 | ti`ocpi | huh |
| 00:29.34 | fozzmoo | Our new Subaru has that. |
| 00:29.47 | fozzmoo | It can be nice, but mostly I think it's a good way to break your transmission. :) |
| 00:29.52 | ti`ocpi | heh |
| 00:30.10 | eightyeight | i really like my corolla. 2nd one i've owned, and just as reliable |
| 00:30.12 | ti`ocpi | can't drive a manual car anyway :P |
| 00:30.22 | fozzmoo | ti`ocpi: You can learn. :) |
| 00:30.28 | fozzmoo | And it's not a bad thing to learn. |
| 00:30.39 | ti`ocpi | fozzmoo: I have tried to learn. It went badly ;) |
| 00:30.46 | ti`ocpi | would be willing to try again, though |
| 00:30.58 | eightyeight | my wife and i are planning on getting an fj cruiser when her grandam craps out |
| 00:31.15 | fozzmoo | I looked at the FJs... the gas mileage scared me away. |
| 00:31.22 | fozzmoo | They look like they'd be sensible on gas, but they do like 15 mpg. |
| 00:31.29 | eightyeight | yeah. it wouldn't be a commuting vehicle, that's for sure |
| 00:31.29 | ti`ocpi | o_O; |
| 00:31.55 | fozzmoo | read that as "when her grandma craps out" |
| 00:32.03 | eightyeight | heh |
| 00:32.10 | ti`ocpi | fozzmoo: So did I. I was confused |
| 00:32.20 | fozzmoo | I figured you were waiting for inheritance money or something. |
| 00:32.27 | eightyeight | s/grandam/grand am/ |
| 00:33.05 | eightyeight | although, i've known peolp to take the 'am' and change it to 'ma' on their cars |
| 00:33.15 | eightyeight | *people |
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| 00:44.57 | fozzmoo | ti`ocpi: That Subaru has a lot of miles. |
| 00:46.36 | ti`ocpi | hmmm, true |
| 00:46.37 | fozzmoo | ti`ocpi: That Mazda 3S looks really nice. Makes me wonder what's wrong with it. :) |
| 00:48.33 | ti`ocpi | heh |
| 00:48.47 | ti`ocpi | I'm definitely going to give it a test drive and such first ;) |
| 00:49.05 | ti`ocpi | er, before agreeing to buy it or anything |
| 01:04.38 | Tene | http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html |
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| 02:49.46 | fozzmoo | ~cheer fozzmoo |
| 02:49.47 | ibot | ACTION cheers fozzmoo on |
| 02:50.27 | blendmaster1024 | lol i gotta... |
| 02:50.38 | fozzmoo | http://www.engrish.com/2010/01/wash-your-hands-after-eating/ |
| 02:51.27 | brac | [Wash your hands after eating⦠| Engrish.com] |
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| 05:01.11 | elg | grumble |
| 05:01.50 | Jayce^ | grumble? |
| 05:01.55 | Jayce^ | working on the myth box? |
| 05:02.05 | elg | my backup fs went berserk and now instead of moving data around I'm finding a place to unload my backup disk so I can reformat it. (it had other stuff than backup on it. the failure is that it's still readable but not writeable) |
| 05:02.28 | Jayce^ | odd |
| 05:02.53 | Jayce^ | that's "Jayce^ wierd, not harleypig wierd" :) |
| 05:03.30 | sontek | very few things in the world are harleypig weird |
| 05:03.52 | elg | hfs+ invalid sibling link |
| 05:04.07 | elg | i blame linux |
| 05:04.58 | Jayce^ | writing to hfs from linux then? |
| 05:08.46 | elg | yeah |
| 05:08.52 | elg | doing the backup |
| 05:11.17 | sontek | linux is the worst |
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| 06:37.33 | ibot | keeps mailing hpaul free America Online CDs until he drowns, courtesy of toofer |
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| 12:25.23 | *** topic/#utah is logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | I am the Key Master. Are you the Gate Keeper? |
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| 14:45.04 | blendmaster1024 | anyone know grub1 well enough to help me troubleshoot thi problem with interference between grub1 and grub2? |
| 14:47.32 | blendmaster1024 | i tried to install ubuntu 9.04 but it failed when it tried to install grub. so i installed grub manually. on reboot, though, all i got was a grub prompt.. so i used it to poke around the boot directory a little, and found that it was full of the grub2 data! |
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| 15:30.01 | blendmaster1024 | well, here goes. grub had better work... |
| 15:30.31 | blendmaster1024 | HAHA!!!! |
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| 15:52.58 | Jayce^ | heh, first pat robertson blames the devil, now Danny Glover says it's about copenhagen failures.. |
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| 17:02.58 | unum | http://ugotta.org/blogs/unum/?p=15 |
| 17:03.27 | unum | that an email I'm sending to my state rep. He's already agreed to add it to the master study bill |
| 17:13.14 | ^Migs^ | I agree wholeheartedly. |
| 17:13.40 | ^Migs^ | although, it's not that students don't know how to use computers and technology, they really need more tech-savvy teachers. |
| 17:13.54 | unum | ya that is a big part of the problem |
| 17:13.57 | ^Migs^ | For the first time in the history of education, really, we have the majority of students who know MORE about something than their teachers do. |
| 17:14.02 | unum | actually I have a question that you would be perfect to answer |
| 17:14.34 | ^Migs^ | And the students often unfairly equate their teachers' lack of technical skills with ignorance. If a student sees a teacher as ignorant, they will be less likely to want to learn from them on other unrelated matters. |
| 17:14.40 | unum | do you think we would be better off if the state spent less money on buying technology and instead spent the money on getting computer that know how to use it |
| 17:14.55 | ^Migs^ | that's a pretty broad question |
| 17:15.04 | ^Migs^ | what do you mean "buying technology?" |
| 17:15.14 | unum | buying new pc's for labs |
| 17:15.20 | unum | and new software |
| 17:15.44 | unum | also buying new pc's and software for teachers |
| 17:15.45 | ^Migs^ | what about other technology, such as digital projectors, interactive whiteboards, tablets, netbooks, etc.? |
| 17:15.53 | ^Migs^ | they have to budget for those things, too |
| 17:16.09 | unum | I'd through those things in the mix as well |
| 17:16.12 | ^Migs^ | the monitors in the computer lab are just one aspect of it all |
| 17:16.59 | unum | s/through/thow |
| 17:17.00 | unum | throw |
| 17:17.01 | ^Migs^ | and the state funds are generally distributed to the individual districts and their technology departments. It's up to the districts to figure out how to spend it. |
| 17:17.03 | unum | darnit |
| 17:17.14 | mulicheng | Anyone know where you can get a soldering tip tinner in Utah valley. |
| 17:17.23 | unum | but the state earmarks the money for technology don't they |
| 17:17.24 | ^Migs^ | The state can certainly set forth some guidelines and stuff, but as for saying "You have to buy 50 computers with this money" that's not going to work. |
| 17:17.28 | ^Migs^ | they don't micromanage districts |
| 17:17.40 | ^Migs^ | sure, but you'd have to address this issue at the district level, and each school district is pretty autonomous |
| 17:18.14 | ^Migs^ | The technology plan at Weber School District is different than the technology plan at Alpine School District, and theirs is different than the technology plan at Box Elder School District, etc. |
| 17:18.21 | unum | well ya |
| 17:18.46 | unum | but I guess I'm thinking about how the state set aside more money for science teachers |
| 17:18.53 | ^Migs^ | simply requiring students to learn about computer hardware and some concepts isn't going to solve the bigger issue |
| 17:19.50 | mulicheng | The bigger issue is where to get solder tinner :P |
| 17:19.51 | ^Migs^ | there was a survey awhile back of 50 different types of businesses and organizations in the U.S., and how efficiently and effectively they used technology. Education came in last place, right after coal mining. |
| 17:19.55 | ^Migs^ | It needs a LOT of work. |
| 17:20.53 | unum | though in a way it does address the issue |
| 17:21.02 | ^Migs^ | I'm with you, though I think you might want to shift the focus. Students should be learning the technical skills they need in the 21st century, not the 20th century. They're still just teaching keyboarding and crap. |
| 17:21.10 | unum | because when those student go on to become teachers, they will use technology better |
| 17:21.15 | unum | but it's a long time view... |
| 17:21.16 | ^Migs^ | My high school didn't have ANY programming classes. Thankfully many high schools now do. |
| 17:21.47 | ^Migs^ | they also didn't have any 3d art and animation classes. I had to learn that stuff on my own in high school. Now they do. So they ARE making progress. |
| 17:21.58 | unum | ya |
| 17:21.58 | ^Migs^ | very few students become teachers |
| 17:22.17 | unum | my reasons for doing this is more to address how poorly technology is used in other fields |
| 17:22.32 | unum | and my own companies difficulties in finding someone who understands filetypes...... |
| 17:22.37 | ^Migs^ | I even made this little cheesy 3d animation for our senior class that we played at an assembly. What I hope some teachers were thinking as they watched it was, "Wow, we should've been the ones who taught him how to do this." |
| 17:22.46 | ^Migs^ | More teachers need to think like that. |
| 17:23.26 | ^Migs^ | even now, you're having a hard time finding decent employees? |
| 17:23.47 | ^Migs^ | sounds like a fault at the college level too, then |
| 17:24.03 | ^Migs^ | companies typically hire IT people with degrees nowadays |
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| 17:24.58 | mulicheng | Since noone is interested in soldering, I'll jump in on the education thing with a quick comment: lots of people are out of work but it's often hard to find someone who can do the work you need (coming from the employer side). |
| 17:25.33 | unum | mulicheng: yep |
| 17:25.54 | unum | I know people who want jobs but when I tell them to send a resume to my manager they ask me to come over and show them how to attach it |
| 17:26.08 | mulicheng | ouch |
| 17:26.22 | unum | I'm not looking for people to run the web server |
| 17:26.40 | unum | I need people who can learn a simple mark up language |
| 17:26.55 | unum | and run some commands from the command line |
| 17:27.34 | mulicheng | I need solder tinner |
| 17:27.38 | mulicheng | :D |
| 17:28.08 | mulicheng | got lots of soldering to do and dirty tips |
| 17:32.40 | ^Migs^ | I will say, out of all our teachers, the tech-savvy ones who use technology to engage seem to be favorites of the students |
| 17:35.27 | unum | there's a teacher I talked to who uses a lot of technology, but thought the district had gone overboard |
| 17:35.52 | ^Migs^ | how so? |
| 17:35.57 | ^Migs^ | which district? |
| 17:36.05 | unum | upgrading too often |
| 17:36.22 | ^Migs^ | upgrading what too often? |
| 17:36.26 | unum | buying some specific stuff for science teachers that wasn't used that often |
| 17:36.56 | unum | computers |
| 17:38.08 | unum | this was in the alpine district |
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| 17:39.07 | unum | but anways I think requiring a better understanding of fundamentals would help the problem |
| 17:39.21 | unum | because then teachers would know how to use technology better |
| 17:43.00 | ^Migs^ | I still am not sure that learning core computing concepts would solve the issue |
| 17:43.21 | ^Migs^ | I mean, even in college I had all sorts of Unix classes, programming, etc. I didn't really learn squat until I started using it every day at my job. |
| 17:43.41 | ^Migs^ | If you're not constantly using something, a teacher certainly won't remember it by the time they graduate from teachers' college. |
| 17:47.41 | unum | that could be |
| 17:47.56 | unum | some of this stuff is cover in junior high but no one remember it by the next year |
| 17:48.16 | unum | colleges require you to pass a test on it, but most students don't ever bother to really understand it |
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| 18:02.06 | ti`ocpi | Boo, the nice Mazda I was looking at on Craigslist was flagged. |
| 18:04.26 | unum | was it only $5k |
| 18:05.48 | RyanE | ti`ocpi: What Mazda are you looking for? |
| 18:08.39 | RyanE | mulicheng: does Central Utah Electronics Supply not have soldering tinner? |
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| 18:09.37 | mulicheng | I'll have to check. |
| 18:10.10 | RyanE | If they don't, no one else in Ut. Co. will. :) |
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| 18:10.20 | mulicheng | It isn't on their website |
| 18:10.25 | mulicheng | perhaps I'll give them a call. |
| 18:10.35 | mulicheng | I found a few places on the internet that ship it. |
| 18:20.47 | ti`ocpi | RyanE: There was a nice blue Mazda S3 listed on Craigslist within my price range last night. It has since been flagged for removal. |
| 18:21.17 | ti`ocpi | Basically, I need a new car, as mine was totalled and I currently have no way to go anywhere without Tene being around. |
| 18:21.49 | elg | so cling to Tene like cliffhanger on a branch |
| 18:22.23 | ti`ocpi | heh, doesn't work so well when he leaves for work at OMGEARLYO'CLOCK and I want to sleep for a couple more hours ;) |
| 18:22.37 | elg | you can sleep in the car. ;-) |
| 18:22.55 | ti`ocpi | car sleeping != restful or comfortable |
| 18:23.09 | elg | so, o'reilly sent me a book to review. they were supposed to send it to my parents at the beginning of the year/end of last so I could read and review it while I was there, but it didn't get there until yesterday (long after I left) |
| 18:23.14 | elg | anyone want to read/review it? |
| 18:23.27 | elg | i can't remember exactly what it is - some book about languages I think |
| 18:23.27 | Tene | elg: what book? |
| 18:24.07 | ti`ocpi | decides to look at used Minis |
| 18:24.49 | unum | maybe you should look at smart cars |
| 18:25.24 | ti`ocpi | smart cars can only hold one person, I though |
| 18:25.27 | ti`ocpi | *thought |
| 18:25.50 | unum | that may be |
| 18:26.56 | ti`ocpi | They're also expensive. |
| 18:28.06 | elg | I think it's "Masterminds of Programming" but it may be "The Art of Concurrency" |
| 18:28.41 | Tene | elg: if you can give me the name, I might be interested. |
| 18:29.18 | elg | i know it's one of those two. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515171 http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521547 |
| 18:29.28 | elg | when i talk to my mom i'll know which |
| 18:30.02 | Tene | I'd be interested in either of those, then. |
| 18:30.03 | Tene | Sure. |
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| 20:09.09 | sontek | OCD <-- Guy in a sack race! |
| 20:11.04 | *** join/#utah bgerber (n=gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 20:18.58 | sontek | â(ââ¿â)㤠|
| 20:19.11 | goozbach | holy crap! |
| 20:19.24 | goozbach | it's a nasty unicode lolicon! |
| 20:19.35 | sontek | I also have pikachu! |
| 20:19.40 | sontek | (ã¥ï½¡ââ¿â¿â｡)㥠|
| 20:19.51 | sontek | maybe its kirby? |
| 20:20.43 | goozbach | kirby! |
| 20:31.43 | sontek | Heartsbane: http://is.gd/6kP2a |
| 20:32.50 | ^Migs^ | http://www.celebuzz.com/celebs-what-if-they-fat-g153311i33583681/ |
| 20:32.56 | brac | [Beyonce Photo - Celebs: What If They Were Fat? - Celebuzz] |
| 20:34.41 | sontek | Thats why I critiqued my little sister every day until she got an eating disorder |
| 20:34.58 | elg | you're beyonce's big brother? |
| 20:43.08 | unum | http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14200462 |
| 20:47.36 | sontek | DUI isn't a suspicion thing... if he was arrested he failed the sobriety/breathlyzer tests :P |
| 20:48.07 | sontek | ahh read the article, he refused breathalyzer |
| 20:49.26 | elg | and the results conveniently take N weeks |
| 20:49.34 | elg | but he's apologizing publicly as if he's guilty |
| 20:50.09 | sontek | Yeah, saying 'sorry for my actions' is basically admitting to it |
| 20:51.32 | sontek | but if he was sober enough to pass the sobriety tests, I bet by time they took him to the jail and got the warrant for the blood test most of the alcohol was out of his system |
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| 21:06.49 | jalbretsen | as if the news could not get more entertaining this week, the DUI is icing on the cake |
| 21:11.10 | Heartsbane | sontek: is it SFW? |
| 21:11.44 | Heartsbane | HOLY COW |
| 21:12.36 | harleypig | HOLY HAMBURGERS AND STEAKS! |
| 21:16.50 | harleypig | Unanaminous! Cool! |
| 21:17.17 | Jayce^ | daaaaang that's awesome |
| 21:17.45 | elg | unanimonious |
| 21:19.51 | sontek | Heartsbane: of course |
| 21:20.01 | sontek | Heartsbane: I don't surf the web for things that aren't SFW! |
| 21:22.09 | keldwud | just submitted my proposal for Ignite SLC |
| 21:22.26 | keldwud | wish me luck :) |
| 21:23.07 | sontek | what you going to speak on? |
| 21:23.19 | sontek | I want to do an ignite where I take off 1 piece of clothing every slide change |
| 21:23.38 | harleypig | ooh ooh ooh ... Can I do it too?! |
| 21:23.54 | keldwud | harleypig - today is the deadline to submit. |
| 21:24.03 | keldwud | sontek - the threat of non-biological entities. |
| 21:24.14 | keldwud | it's a theory that I've been working on over the last decade |
| 21:24.19 | harleypig | keldwud: Think they would accept my stripping proposal? |
| 21:24.32 | keldwud | harleypig - they'll accept almost anything :) |
| 21:24.47 | keldwud | the point is to "entertain me, but make it quick" |
| 21:24.47 | peno | Heartsbane: I h8 u |
| 21:25.08 | keldwud | go submit your proposal, harleypig. You need a link, or can you find it on your own? |
| 21:25.20 | Heartsbane | peno: welcome to the darkside |
| 21:25.29 | Heartsbane | your h8 will only make me stronger |
| 21:25.39 | harleypig | keldwud: I know where it is |
| 21:25.56 | keldwud | I've been fleshing out this theory that non-biological entities (i.e. corporations) directly influence the evolution of technology, human psychology and even physiology |
| 21:26.19 | harleypig | what about energy beings? |
| 21:26.29 | harleypig | like on star trek |
| 21:26.32 | keldwud | and this can be averted if we stop allowing them to be autonomous and understand that their needs as a viral type parasite do not coincide with our needs as humans |
| 21:26.53 | keldwud | harleypig - this theory should theoretically apply to any non-biological entity that we live in close contact with |
| 21:27.22 | keldwud | it goes both ways, our needs as biological entities would be superimposed upon non-biological entities to help them produce what we want |
| 21:27.25 | keldwud | or vice versa |
| 21:27.31 | harleypig | keldwud: while I am being a smart ass, I'd like to be serious for a moment and say that I agree with you |
| 21:27.34 | keldwud | which is what happens here in the States. |
| 21:27.58 | keldwud | non-biological entities do not require clean food sources, water sources or clean oxygen. |
| 21:28.04 | harleypig | but I'd like to say that I think that those entities (e.g., corporations) already know this and are working in such a way as to take advantage of it. |
| 21:28.15 | keldwud | they need money capital and labor capital |
| 21:28.45 | keldwud | one after effect of this parasitic relationship is how many people no longer crave water |
| 21:29.09 | keldwud | there are quite a majority of people who say no to water and actually shrink in disgust when offered it |
| 21:29.21 | keldwud | this is due to the relationship I described above. |
| 21:29.31 | keldwud | I hope they let me do a talk :) |
| 21:38.17 | elg | water drinkers unite! |
| 21:44.56 | keldwud | lol. no wai. I actually had a group when I was 16 calld "Water Drinkers of America" |
| 21:45.07 | keldwud | and our mission was to unite water drinkers. |
| 21:45.08 | keldwud | lol |
| 21:51.12 | Sargun | ,,,, |
| 21:51.14 | Sargun | what |
| 21:52.32 | Jayce^ | takes a sip from his camelback at work |
| 21:53.20 | ^Migs^ | I used to belong to the Dweeb Club when I was 12 |
| 21:53.44 | ^Migs^ | my friend founded it, though I'm still not sure why |
| 21:54.00 | ^Migs^ | all I remember is that one day we made pickle people with pickles and toothpicks as our daily Dweeb Club activity |
| 21:54.20 | ^Migs^ | beyond that, I've blanked everything else out |
| 21:58.55 | keldwud | pickle people? pics plz. |
| 22:01.55 | harleypig | http://bentobjects.blogspot.com/2008/04/preserved-specimen.html |
| 22:05.02 | sjansen | ~lart SUSE's crack smoking shell script writers |
| 22:05.02 | ibot | changes SUSE's crack smoking shell script writers's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 22:06.46 | elg | harleypig: like |
| 22:06.48 | elg | irc needs a like button |
| 22:07.01 | elg | that automatically larts the link poster |
| 22:07.03 | elg | ~lart harleypig |
| 22:07.03 | ibot | slaps harleypig around with a large trout |
| 22:07.28 | harleypig | grabs the trout and slaps elg around with it |
| 22:07.52 | elg | puts speedos on the trout |
| 22:22.06 | keldwud | lol, in the comments he calls it an "ass pickle" |
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