| 00:01.14 | rsimpkins | 16:00:59 up 1621 days, 9:22, 1 user, load average: 0.48, 0.46, 0.45 |
| 00:01.19 | rsimpkins | No, that is NOT a doctored uptime. |
| 00:01.58 | Nafai | Nice |
| 00:02.54 | elg | so what's the "honda civic" of desktops these days? my mom is sick of my dad being a cheapskate and not upgrading/replacing their old computer which is showing its age, so she comes to me for advice on a used or new computer in the few hundred dollar range |
| 00:03.11 | elg | just need the box, not monitor, kb, mouse, printer, etc. |
| 00:03.32 | elg | and probably not even a copy of windows which they already have (and of course thye have linux handy too) |
| 00:03.37 | levi | Probably a dell box. |
| 00:03.49 | levi | Unless you want to build something. |
| 00:04.07 | elg | i don't mind building (or pawning the construction off on von and jacob) |
| 00:04.30 | JoshH | dell, build, or pay more for a quality builder only have your mom ruin it with spyware anyway. so basically, dell |
| 00:04.48 | elg | but i don't know what the hardware specs are like these days. what's "good"? where's the line from "old clunker" to "good enough for now and a few years" |
| 00:05.07 | JoshH | quads are affordable these days |
| 00:05.09 | levi | If you build, AMD is good bang for the buck. |
| 00:05.11 | elg | well my mom's not the one that gets spyware. that'd be my sister and brother :) |
| 00:05.29 | elg | though my mom does have a fb account now |
| 00:05.31 | JoshH | and of course you can't put linux on there, or you're on the hook for tech support |
| 00:05.57 | Nafai | with most parents, he would be for Windows too :) |
| 00:06.08 | JoshH | true |
| 00:06.18 | unum | I buy all my stuff from posh in logan still |
| 00:06.22 | unum | though he's a pain to get a hold of |
| 00:06.37 | elg | we've had them on linux before, actually they do quite well but I think they've consciously decided to go with windows for ease of self administration and minimal friction for school projects (i.e. office) |
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| 00:07.12 | JoshH | maybe consider a mac mini |
| 00:07.12 | elg | the real tech supoprt nightmare at that house is the half-zombie mythtv box |
| 00:09.40 | levi | Dell has a mini-style box now. |
| 00:10.00 | levi | Probably not significantly cheaper than the Apple version, though. |
| 00:10.11 | levi | But it will at least come with Windows. |
| 00:17.03 | fungus | Since the Dell mini can be customized heavily, you can go really low-end and get it much cheaper than a Mac Mini. |
| 00:17.13 | fungus | as low as $275 IIRC |
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| 01:43.06 | eightyeight | rsimpkins: probably time to boot into a patched kernel |
| 01:44.47 | eightyeight | elg: i think i would go for lenovo, actually. i'm so impressed with the build quality of their thinkpads, that i can't help but think there has to be some solid build quality in their desktops too |
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| 04:26.23 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 04:26.23 | ibot | chops elg in half with a free Solaris 7 CD |
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| 07:08.57 | mgeary | did anyone just see what happened in the sky of utah valley? |
| 07:09.02 | mgeary | a really bright light? |
| 07:09.12 | Nafai | nope |
| 07:09.15 | Nafai | UFO? |
| 07:09.30 | mgeary | no, either a flare or a metor. probably too slow for a meteor |
| 07:09.38 | mgeary | so probably just a flare (though that would be weird) |
| 07:09.43 | mgeary | but it flared really bright for a second |
| 07:11.14 | Nafai | interesting |
| 07:11.18 | Nafai | yeah, I wasn't looking outside |
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| 07:17.24 | uxp | anyone see that meteor(ite) over the salt lake valley? |
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| 07:18.42 | Nafai | mgeary was just on here asking about it |
| 07:18.53 | Nafai | I wasn't looking outside so I didn't see it |
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| 12:39.02 | goozbach | there was a meteor shower yesterday/today |
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| 15:33.57 | Sargun | goozbach, I don't like calling it a meteor shower. In all the other showers I know, the thing showering actually hits the object it's showering, |
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| 15:43.29 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 15:43.29 | brac | posts tensai's IP and root password on alt.2600 |
| 15:43.58 | elg | some of the rocks hit the earth. the earth is the thing getting showered. I don't see your problem. |
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| 16:54.44 | elg | -chat |
| 16:54.48 | brac | nom nom |
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| 17:04.02 | levi | Sargun_Screen: Meteor showers are a bunch of space rocks hitting the earth's atmosphere. |
| 17:04.36 | levi | What's the big deal with huge system uptimes, anyway? |
| 17:05.58 | JoshH | i've always wondered that |
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| 17:20.34 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 17:20.35 | ibot | blames fungus for all the evil in the world |
| 17:20.44 | sjansen | Bingo! |
| 17:20.59 | fungus | hehe |
| 17:24.33 | sjansen | http://i.imgur.com/DR0dU.png |
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| 18:45.41 | harleypig | http://thisisphotobomb.com/2009/11/17/photobomb-that-guy-ah-mimes/ |
| 18:50.09 | harleypig | dammit sjansen ... now I'm wasting time on omegle ... I'd forgotten all about it. |
| 19:37.43 | mrpull | harleypig: are you trolling on omegle? |
| 19:48.56 | sjansen | I really should just suck it up and learn Beamer. Impress is pissing me off as usual. |
| 19:54.27 | sinuhe | Beamer's nice. |
| 19:57.15 | elg | except when it isn't |
| 19:58.45 | elg | http://www.catsforgold.com/ |
| 19:58.45 | brac | [catsforgold.com] |
| 20:01.02 | tvc123 | I was hoping it would be gold for cats |
| 20:01.11 | tvc123 | I have a couple ready to box up and send |
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| 20:38.07 | levi | So did anyone see the meteor last night? |
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| 20:39.06 | goozbach | sjansen: use s5 |
| 20:39.26 | sjansen | no |
| 20:39.41 | goozbach | s6? |
| 20:39.43 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:39.53 | goozbach | there's a markdown to s5 xslt |
| 20:40.00 | goozbach | haven't tried it yet |
| 20:41.50 | levi | What are 's5' and 's6'? |
| 20:42.38 | goozbach | levi: slideshow systems |
| 20:42.40 | goozbach | pretty cool |
| 20:42.59 | RyanE | pure HTML / CSS slide shows. |
| 20:43.08 | goozbach | http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ |
| 20:43.09 | brac | [S5: A Simple Standards-Based Slide Show System] |
| 20:43.38 | jsmith-teaching | goozbach: You should finish prespal :-/ |
| 20:43.39 | levi | Why won't sjansen use it? |
| 20:43.57 | fozzmoo | XMission finally has earplugs and headphone-style ear protection available outside the inner door to the data center. |
| 20:44.16 | fozzmoo | I just power off my hearing aids or put on some music, but I'm sure that's going to make a lot of people happy. |
| 20:44.39 | fozzmoo | levi: It's too conservative for him. ;-) |
| 20:44.43 | goozbach | jsmith-teaching: this is why: http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/try |
| 20:44.44 | sjansen | Because s5 has pissed me off in the past. I prefer PDF. |
| 20:45.10 | levi | sjansen clearly holds software grudges. :) |
| 20:45.24 | jsmith-teaching | goozbach: Oooh... interesting. |
| 20:45.39 | levi | I'd probably just use pdf too, though. |
| 20:46.00 | levi | Or PowerPoint. ;) |
| 20:46.21 | fozzmoo | levi: You're just saying that to be evil. ;-) |
| 20:47.09 | levi | No, I actually do use PowerPoint sometimes. |
| 20:47.45 | levi | It's not the most pleasant experience in the world, but it does end up making slides. I don't make slides very often, so I'm not really motivated to find exactly the right tool for the job. |
| 20:49.54 | fozzmoo | I like OOo. |
| 20:50.18 | fozzmoo | But I'm drawn to the simplicity of things like s5. |
| 20:53.15 | levi | At the level I use them, there seems to be little difference between OOo's slide app and PowerPoint. |
| 20:53.27 | levi | I use OOo when I don't have MS Office handy. |
| 20:54.58 | jsmith-teaching | Some of use spend *lots* of time building slides |
| 20:55.24 | levi | If I did, I'd be looking at some better way of doing it too. |
| 20:55.35 | fozzmoo | leaves XMission |
| 20:59.27 | levi | I've seen some cool slides built on some sort of a TeX foundation. |
| 21:00.34 | levi | I'd much rather use a pdf viewer for a slideshow than a web browser, though. |
| 21:01.04 | whiteinge | sjansen: have to tried rst2beamer? it's a little rough, but a nice way to get something basic out quickly. |
| 21:01.11 | whiteinge | s/to/you |
| 21:01.16 | jsmith-teaching | levi: I don't mind using a PDF viewer, but I'm very interested in getting from a text-based representation of the slides to PDF, so that I can more easily keep my slides in revision control |
| 21:05.19 | levi | jsmith-teaching: Yeah, that sounds reasonable. |
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| 21:28.21 | goozbach | jsmith-teaching: I'm installing pandoc |
| 21:29.56 | jsmith-teaching | goozbach: Let me know how it goes |
| 21:30.08 | goozbach | it's haskell |
| 21:30.16 | goozbach | so I have no living idea if I'm doing it right |
| 21:38.01 | elg | loves keynote |
| 21:39.41 | jsmith-teaching | elg: I would too, if Apple would publish a decent DTD or schema, and all my training partners had Macs |
| 21:39.59 | elg | i don't need no stinkin' training partners |
| 21:40.24 | elg | i love it but probably not so much that i'd go out and buy it rather than use beamer |
| 21:40.32 | elg | unless i did a lot of presentations |
| 21:40.48 | elg | but didn't do so many i needed a schema and training partners. ;-) |
| 21:40.51 | sjansen | http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/11/18/an-early-look-at-ie9-for-developers.aspx |
| 21:41.30 | sjansen | Looks like with IE9, IE will still be the suckiest major browser, but the suck factor will be _much_ less noticeable. |
| 21:41.46 | elg | that's what they always say |
| 21:43.18 | mulicheng | "Standards that matter to developers" |
| 21:43.41 | mulicheng | So I guess MS likes to determine what developer standards matter and code to those, an ignore the rest. |
| 21:43.51 | mulicheng | hence the 32/100 score on Acid3. |
| 21:44.04 | mulicheng | Hm, I'm really glad I haven't been doing much web devel for a while :) |
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| 21:51.27 | sontek | Anyone travel to Europe a lot and now options for mobile data plans? |
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| 21:52.33 | sontek | I'm working from Europe the next few months and its painful to do so on hostel Internet |
| 21:53.48 | sontek | so if I can get a reasonably priced data plan that would be best |
| 21:55.04 | romanovic | where in Europe? |
| 21:55.30 | sjansen | sontek: Sorry, sontek, but European socialism has doomed them to an eternity of mud huts and expensive 56k modem-only Internet connections. |
| 21:56.17 | sjansen | You have only yourself to blame for leaving the sweet embrace of mother America. |
| 21:56.54 | sontek | romanovic: my major stay is in Barcelona, but if I can get something to work in all countries that'd be best since I'll be swinging through Italy, Czech Republic, Ireland,England, and Germany |
| 21:57.13 | sontek | sjansen: damn them socialists!!! doooomed ;) |
| 21:58.09 | sontek | A guy at this hostel told me I might be able to pick up a 3g dongle to use, ooking around online for it now, but this horrid hostel internet tube is clogged |
| 21:59.13 | sjansen | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2356014,00.asp <-- You're two years too early. |
| 21:59.14 | brac | [Spain Codifies 'The Right to Broadband' - Reviews by PC Magazine] |
| 22:00.08 | romanovic | sontek: ah. i can't help there, but i would be curious to know if you find a good solution |
| 22:00.26 | sontek | Now I just have to find a time travel device :O |
| 22:00.46 | sontek | sjansen: thats like telling me to use a regex, now I have 2 problems! ;P |
| 22:03.44 | harleypig | http://www.snorgtees.com/aluminumfalcon-p-483.html |
| 22:03.45 | brac | [What the Hell is an Aluminum Falcon? Women's T-Shirt | Snorg Tees] |
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| 22:25.30 | elg | ~worry sjansen |
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| 22:33.20 | mrpull | what is that saying that "eventually all programs evolve until they can send and receive email"? |
| 22:33.30 | mrpull | that quote is googleproof |
| 22:34.56 | fozzmoo | Hmmm. Was just reading this: http://keithp.com/blogs/notmuch/ |
| 22:35.21 | mrpull | well look at that... Bing's first entry had my answer. |
| 22:35.31 | fozzmoo | notmuch is a new console e-mail client based on another one called 'sup', which is written in Ruby. |
| 22:35.47 | mrpull | is it based on supdog? |
| 22:36.11 | fozzmoo | The guy behind notmuch doesn't like sup because (#1): "Itâs written in ruby. Yet another language disaster in my book; syntax horror-show similar to perl, and a lack of static typechecking means that obvious bugs in the program wouldnât be caught until you happened to execute that particular line of code. Ruby is also no speed demonâI spend a lot of my day reading email, waiting for ruby is not on my list of desired activities." |
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| 22:36.40 | elg | 1 is a dumb reason |
| 22:36.56 | fozzmoo | I'm not all that familiar with Ruby, but I think he's being incredibly nitpicky. I mean, it's a console mail app likely running on something clocked at a couple gigahertz. |
| 22:37.01 | elg | a valid reason to not code in ruby probably |
| 22:37.08 | elg | not a valid reason not to use a program written in ruby |
| 22:37.23 | JoshH | it's a dumb reason because he bashes perl, which is wrong |
| 22:37.33 | JoshH | perl is perfect |
| 22:37.47 | elg | and ruby can't be to blame if it's slow. the only way sup could be slow is if it has algorithmic problems |
| 22:37.54 | elg | as you note, it's just a frickin console prog |
| 22:38.00 | JoshH | also, spending time writing new console mail apps is about as dumb as it gets |
| 22:39.26 | elg | but he didn't waste time waiting for his email client! |
| 22:39.57 | {-} | Not true. All you need to justify such an app is an innovative feature like... uhm... a machine learning system that observers your flaming and automatically replicates, freeing you up from dealing with obvious morons. |
| 22:43.52 | sontek | also some of us still use console apps for when we are not at our own computers |
| 22:44.43 | mrpull | is bummed nobody fell for his supdog reference |
| 22:44.52 | JoshH | that's what mutt is for |
| 22:45.06 | sontek | I have mutt running in my same screen as irssi so I can shell in from anywhere and flame sjan on irc and plug mailing list quickly. |
| 22:45.19 | sontek | sjansen* |
| 22:46.27 | fozzmoo | sontek: Wow. That's dedication. ;-) |
| 22:48.45 | sontek | {-}: why isn't your name sjansen... you totally screwed up my tab complete |
| 22:49.03 | sontek | n00b |
| 22:49.18 | sontek | and yes I typed 4 characters and was too lazy to type the last 3 |
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| 23:34.01 | levi | Heh. The guy that wrote the thing on notmuch is Keith Packard, who is also the man behind X. |
| 23:34.18 | elg | that's a milk-through-the-nose revelation |
| 23:34.59 | elg | i mean i'm sure X was awesome and all when he made it, but it's a bit pot and kettle |
| 23:35.26 | fozzmoo | explains why he's stuck in the C Rules The Universe mindset. |
| 23:35.47 | levi | Well, there were lots of people behind X, but he's been involved since the 80s and is a major guy behind xorg today. |
| 23:36.05 | levi | And yeah, it explains a lot about his attitude. |
| 23:36.57 | levi | He did work on an alternative language, though: http://nickle.org/ |
| 23:37.02 | RyanE | fozzmoo: When did C stop ruling the Universe? I didn't get the memo. |
| 23:38.03 | fozzmoo | RyanE: I dunno... Not much demand for C programmers. |
| 23:38.42 | levi | fozzmoo: Not in your universe, maybe. But really, there is still a lot of demand for them. |
| 23:38.48 | fozzmoo | Sure. |
| 23:38.55 | fozzmoo | I'm not saying there's NO demand for them. |
| 23:39.00 | fozzmoo | After all, the Linux kernel is C. |
| 23:39.11 | levi | You're only thinking of PCs. |
| 23:39.25 | levi | PCs are a mere fraction of the computers that exist. |
| 23:39.45 | fozzmoo | I'm only thinking of what I've seen in the job market, levi. |
| 23:39.54 | fozzmoo | And the trends over the years. |
| 23:40.04 | levi | Right, but *what* job market are you looking at? |
| 23:40.13 | fozzmoo | The overall job market. |
| 23:41.54 | levi | Well, the demand for any programming skills is small in the overall job market. |
| 23:41.57 | fozzmoo | I have no problem with C. I was a crack C programmer for several years. :) |
| 23:42.22 | levi | I hate C, and I continue to be a 'crack C programmer'. |
| 23:42.45 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 23:42.48 | JoshH | but are you a crack smoking C programmer |
| 23:42.55 | unum | I was just thinking how happy I am to be back writing in c++ |
| 23:43.05 | unum | it's nice to be home |
| 23:43.16 | levi | C continues to be the the primary language of OS-level programming, embedded systems programming, etc. |
| 23:43.17 | fozzmoo | C is what it is... for a procedural language that easily compiles to assembly. |
| 23:44.05 | fozzmoo | unum: C++ is an embarrassment to programming languages, IMO. I'm sorry I ever learned it. |
| 23:44.32 | fozzmoo | leaves to go pick up his kids |
| 23:44.47 | levi | Maybe it easily compiled to PDP-11 assembly. :P Its primary virtues are that it lets you directly fiddle with bits and doesn't require much of a runtime support library. |
| 23:45.25 | fozzmoo | Right. It's close to the hardware. |
| 23:46.06 | fozzmoo | And it's biggest drawback is that it lets you directly fiddle with bits. :) |
| 23:46.11 | levi | I don't really think it's more 'close to the hardware' than, say, Pascal. It's just less strict. |
| 23:46.41 | levi | I can think of several drawbacks higher on my list than that! |
| 23:47.23 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@137.65.132.26) |
| 23:48.58 | Sargun_Screen | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:49.25 | levi | It's not actually very *helpful* at fiddling with bits. Struct packing and bitfields would be wonderful for that if they were actually standardized. |
| 23:50.15 | levi | As it is, if you want to do anything portable, you have to screw around with #defines for bitmasks and all sorts of shifting and whatnot. |
| 23:52.08 | sontek | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.54 | levi | My server has been up 75 days. Whoopee. :P |
| 23:53.25 | sontek | my epeen is so big compared to you guys! |
| 23:55.49 | harleypig | Is there a graphical/X windows info program ? |
| 23:57.22 | fugue88 | harleypig: emacs |
| 23:57.40 | fugue88 | :) |
| 23:57.46 | harleypig | ~lart fugue88 |
| 23:57.46 | ibot | hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at fugue88 |
| 23:58.02 | fugue88 | cringes in agony |
| 23:58.28 | fugue88 | subdues the kittens |
| 23:58.52 | harleypig | all dozens of them? |
| 23:58.52 | fugue88 | All dozens. |
| 23:58.54 | harleypig | wow |
| 23:59.04 | harleypig | were you brutal about it? |
| 23:59.04 | fugue88 | It was a potion I found on a different level. |
| 23:59.09 | harleypig | :D |
