| 00:11.31 | goozbach | eightyeight: I think it's because ibot split :( |
| 00:11.51 | goozbach | maybe not |
| 00:21.50 | goozbach | elg: done much grill baking? as in bread? |
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| 01:41.42 | Jayce^ | goozbach: done pizza dough + pizza |
| 01:41.58 | Jayce^ | when baking on coal, usually use an oven though.. |
| 01:42.04 | Jayce^ | but have done the pizza on the grill |
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| 05:13.03 | sontek | :D |
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| 16:42.15 | ^Migs^ | go to my Christmas music site and vote: http://christmas.justinreeve.com |
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| 17:41.01 | elg | so it's time to buy some gloves for my morning bike ride |
| 17:41.07 | elg | just need to break the wind |
| 17:41.44 | elg | levi: any recommendations? |
| 17:43.30 | Jayce^ | gas-x... stop breaking wind |
| 18:00.02 | elg | ~break Jayce^ |
| 18:00.03 | ibot | ACTION installs Windows into Jayce^'s brain, reboots it, adds more Microsoft products, and reboots again. |
| 18:00.18 | fozzmoo | "Large trees break wind." |
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| 18:10.28 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: why? |
| 18:11.26 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: i guess specifically, what are we voting for? |
| 18:15.44 | ^Migs^ | "Voting is now open! Below is the list of songs you requested, and every day from December 1st through the 25th, I will record a new Christmas song from the ones which get voted. Please select up to 10 of your favorites (some non-Christmas songs crept into the requests, but they were included here for voting anyway). The winners will be arranged and recorded." |
| 18:16.08 | eightyeight | you record songs? |
| 18:16.32 | ^Migs^ | I'm going to improvise a piano arrangement of the voted songs |
| 18:16.41 | ^Migs^ | I should reword that |
| 18:18.02 | eightyeight | (i hate christmas music btw. christmas too, but i won't get into that) |
| 18:18.15 | ^Migs^ | Is this clearer? "Voting is now open! Below is the list of songs you requested, and every day from December 1st through the 25th, I will improvise a new arrangement of a Christmas song which was voted. Please select up to 10 of your favorites (some non-Christmas songs crept into the requests, but they were included here for voting anyway). The winners will be arranged and recorded." |
| 18:19.01 | ^Migs^ | Who in the right mind hates Christmas music? |
| 18:19.07 | JoshH | i do |
| 18:19.18 | JoshH | it sounds stupid |
| 18:19.20 | ^Migs^ | that's like hating puppies and kittens |
| 18:19.30 | JoshH | i hate adult cats but not kittens |
| 18:19.36 | JoshH | actually i don't hate them |
| 18:19.39 | JoshH | just wouldn't want to own one |
| 18:20.09 | ^Migs^ | I just think you'd have to be a jerk not to like Christmas music |
| 18:20.15 | ^Migs^ | that's all there is to it |
| 18:20.25 | elg | i hate people |
| 18:20.29 | elg | actually I don't hat them |
| 18:20.34 | elg | just wouldn't want to own one |
| 18:20.40 | fozzmoo | I heard Barack Obama hates Christmas music. |
| 18:20.42 | ^Migs^ | I wouldn't mind owning a person |
| 18:20.50 | ^Migs^ | Barack Obama is a jerk |
| 18:20.57 | elg | no way, wayyy too much overhead |
| 18:21.17 | elg | always trying to run away, needing food, water, and a bathroom |
| 18:28.37 | unum | I don't like christmas music |
| 18:28.47 | unum | and I hate puppies and dogs |
| 18:28.48 | rsimpkins | I think all people I don't know are jerks. |
| 18:28.53 | rsimpkins | Especially the ones on Fox News. |
| 18:30.43 | fungus | voted for all the non-christmas songs in protest. |
| 18:31.00 | unum | I don't understand people's love for christmas music |
| 18:31.02 | elg | i love christmas music, hate cats and dogs that jump on you or lick you, and hate radio stations that play boring pop christmas music for 3 straight months. |
| 18:31.15 | mulicheng | Oh come on, Fox news is the only one source of unbiased media. |
| 18:31.24 | mulicheng | They can't be jerks. |
| 18:31.54 | unum | unbiased = make stuff up to fit my world view |
| 18:32.13 | JoshH | hey, glenn beck and bill o'reilly aren't republicans |
| 18:32.23 | ^Migs^ | there were only two non-Christmas songs |
| 18:32.24 | unum | of course hannity,beck,and oreily aren't news sources eithers |
| 18:32.29 | unum | they are editorial programs |
| 18:32.30 | JoshH | they just always agree with them on everything |
| 18:32.30 | mulicheng | I think Glenn Beck is Libertarian?? |
| 18:32.38 | unum | which are allewed and expected to be biased |
| 18:32.46 | ^Migs^ | He says he's a "conservative" |
| 18:33.08 | unum | ya, libertarian actually believe in limited government |
| 18:33.12 | rsimpkins | I think Mr. Beck is warm and fuzzy, esspecially when he's dumping gas on people. |
| 18:33.21 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Wasn't that AWESOME?! |
| 18:33.21 | JoshH | there are different degrees of libertarians though |
| 18:33.27 | unum | conservatives believe the purpose of government is to force their religion on everyone else |
| 18:33.37 | JoshH | beck seems like the type that's barely outside the far right reaches of the republican party |
| 18:33.42 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Someone has to entertain us. Hollywood isn't doing it any more. |
| 18:33.46 | JoshH | but still more a republican than a libertarian |
| 18:33.47 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 18:33.55 | JoshH | hey i hear 2012 is pretty entertaining |
| 18:34.30 | rsimpkins | Yeah, from a 'I'm 15 and snuck in to the theater' point of view perhaps. |
| 18:36.06 | rsimpkins | Man, what is wrong with the world we've created? http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13799631 |
| 18:36.15 | JoshH | republicans |
| 18:37.19 | rsimpkins | I blame the liberal conservative party. |
| 18:37.28 | rsimpkins | glares at jsmith. |
| 18:37.30 | elg | well, the one who did the beating still gets the can |
| 18:37.52 | ^Migs^ | I blame Glenn Beck |
| 18:38.04 | elg | the girl gets off scott-free for paying someone to beat her. that doesn't sound so sinister |
| 18:38.09 | ^Migs^ | hahaha "a bite mark on her neck" |
| 18:38.15 | rsimpkins | Glenn Beck was the guy who beat her, I think. She gave him $150 and told him she likes Obama. |
| 18:38.25 | elg | haha |
| 18:38.32 | mulicheng | Maybe he didn't know where the fetus is. |
| 18:38.46 | mulicheng | I mean, hey, the fetus lived. |
| 18:38.58 | rsimpkins | elg: I'm not talking about the reaction, but the reason that it even happened in the first place. |
| 18:39.00 | mulicheng | So he was obviously incompetent in his job responsibilities. |
| 18:39.05 | JoshH | what is happening to our freedoms when you can't even have some guy you know do your abortion for you with his fists? |
| 18:39.09 | JoshH | america is declining |
| 18:39.09 | ^Migs^ | He should've refunded the money |
| 18:39.37 | rsimpkins | You're just now figuring that out? :-) |
| 18:39.45 | ^Migs^ | I don't understand why she didn't just put the baby up for adoption |
| 18:39.51 | ^Migs^ | why is that not an option to kids anymoer? |
| 18:39.52 | ^Migs^ | *more |
| 18:39.54 | rsimpkins | We still have lots of bombs though. So, we are still number one in something. |
| 18:39.58 | ^Migs^ | *anymore |
| 18:40.28 | rsimpkins | I mean, if it can't be in science, education, social services, individual rights, civil liberties, or industry - we still have our bombs. ;) |
| 18:41.12 | JoshH | social services are evil |
| 18:41.21 | elg | rsimpkins: ah, yeah. well it's vernal |
| 18:41.25 | rsimpkins | totally evil. |
| 18:41.30 | elg | i don't know if I include vernal in "this world" |
| 18:41.52 | JoshH | elg: i have to go to vernal several times a year :( |
| 18:42.09 | JoshH | and not for the cool dinosaur thing |
| 18:42.20 | elg | JoshH: look on the bright side. you can think of it as being an astronaut! |
| 18:42.22 | JoshH | in fact, i haven't been there for about 20 years |
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| 18:44.12 | JoshH | vernal isn't even cloe to the worst small utah town though |
| 18:44.20 | JoshH | i'd rather go there than say, delta or manti any day |
| 18:44.49 | JoshH | or la verkin, blanding, etc |
| 18:44.55 | JoshH | vernal actually has a cafe rio now |
| 18:45.31 | romanovic | wow |
| 18:45.54 | JoshH | i guess it was going to get an olive garden too, but they pulled out because they couldn't get a liquor license soon enough =\ |
| 18:46.01 | romanovic | attempted hunting deer near vernal once, but failed |
| 18:46.25 | JoshH | i deer hunted in the book cliffs south of vernal in 2008, and succeeded |
| 18:46.30 | romanovic | nice |
| 18:46.59 | romanovic | the guy i was with succeeded too, so it wasn't a total loss. |
| 18:47.03 | fungus | I attempted to hug a deer once. Very difficult, they run too fast. |
| 18:47.18 | mulicheng | JoshH: southwest of blanding -> elk ridge -> best limited entry elk/deer in the state. |
| 18:47.25 | JoshH | ya |
| 18:47.31 | mulicheng | Used to be anyway |
| 18:47.36 | JoshH | my dad hunted in elk ridge when i was 12, and it was the most amazing thing i'd ever seen |
| 18:48.01 | JoshH | fungus: i've hugged domestic elk before |
| 18:48.01 | mulicheng | about 10 years ago some poachers from blanding killed hundreds of big bucks. |
| 18:48.06 | mulicheng | never been the same since. |
| 18:48.09 | mulicheng | still a good place though. |
| 18:48.18 | JoshH | i don't care for hunting as much as i used to though |
| 18:48.20 | mulicheng | When I was a kid the big bucks were simple just everywhere. |
| 18:48.26 | JoshH | i only went last year becuase my family kept pestering me to apply with them |
| 18:48.44 | fungus | remembers mulicheng's words and plans to warn all the deer/elk in advance. |
| 18:49.25 | fungus | mutters "bambi killers" |
| 18:49.27 | JoshH | mulicheng: did you grow up down there/ |
| 18:49.38 | mulicheng | Monticello. |
| 18:49.46 | JoshH | ah |
| 18:49.54 | JoshH | i used to hunt on the blue mountains a lot when i was a teenager |
| 18:50.09 | mulicheng | Great mountain. |
| 18:50.21 | mulicheng | For everything, not just hunting. |
| 18:50.25 | JoshH | (always archery) |
| 18:50.40 | JoshH | i've only rifle hunted once, and didn't like it |
| 18:50.49 | mulicheng | I mostly hunted archery too. |
| 18:50.58 | JoshH | too cold, too many redneck republicans everywhere, and too easy |
| 18:51.10 | mulicheng | a lot of years you had to choose which.. so archery it was. |
| 18:52.01 | JoshH | the blue mountains are where all but one of my several encounters with bears in the wild occurred |
| 18:52.16 | JoshH | for a while there was quite an overpopulation of them |
| 18:52.17 | mulicheng | There are a number there. |
| 18:52.57 | mulicheng | A couple summers ago one (that the DWR later shot) came and bothered my parents at their camper. My kids like to tell the bear story now. |
| 18:53.10 | mulicheng | My dad chased it off with our little crf50. |
| 18:53.37 | mulicheng | It wasn't too scared of the rifle shots (they just shot at trees near it) |
| 18:54.15 | JoshH | during my bowhunting years i got very close to about 8 or 9 of them total while hiking around, usually within about 20 yards. i always just backed away, but i was pretty scared every time, and eventualy i just developed an irrational fear of bears that i have to this day, i'm constantly thinking about them whenever i'm hiking anywhere |
| 18:54.33 | mulicheng | Just pack some bear mace. |
| 18:54.45 | JoshH | i was going to when i went to the book cliffs, but never got around to it |
| 18:54.47 | mulicheng | It's extremely effective. |
| 18:54.47 | JoshH | didn't see any there though |
| 18:54.53 | fungus | Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh my! |
| 18:54.53 | JoshH | but one did come to our camp at night and get into our trash |
| 18:55.05 | romanovic | mulicheng, you had the chance to try it out? |
| 18:55.10 | JoshH | chewed the trash can up pretty good |
| 18:55.25 | mulicheng | Nope, just read what people write about it. |
| 18:55.31 | JoshH | i've heard it's good |
| 18:55.40 | JoshH | but i'm sure it would suck if the wind was blowing in your face |
| 18:55.44 | mulicheng | Last year we were camping when the bear dogs were chasing bears. |
| 18:55.51 | JoshH | it's supposedly much stronger than rapist mace |
| 18:55.55 | mulicheng | We hiked up and took some pictures of a treed bear about 6 am. |
| 18:56.04 | eightyeight | ^Migs^: are you calling me a jerk? |
| 18:56.17 | mulicheng | We didn't have to be too scared of the bears then, they were running scared of anything human related with the dogs around. |
| 18:56.41 | mulicheng | Yeah, the bear mace can blind you. |
| 18:56.57 | harleypig | http://xrl.in/3r6i |
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| 19:23.26 | eightyeight | here's why christmas music sucks (for me): it's the same crap, year, after year, after year. and rarely is any artist bringing anything new to the scene |
| 19:24.18 | eightyeight | and, each year, the christmas creep gets earlier and earlier, yet it's the same crap. so, annually, i get to listen to white christmas, and rudolph the red-nosed reindeer, and silent night, etc |
| 19:24.22 | mulicheng | JINGLE BELLS, JINGLE BELLS, JINGLE ALL THE WAAAYYYYYYYY, OH WHAT FUN IT IS TO RIDE IN A ONE HORSE OPEN SLEIIGHHHEEEE. |
| 19:24.40 | mulicheng | I thought everyone loved hearing that blare. |
| 19:24.43 | ^Migs^ | what are you talking about? |
| 19:24.49 | ^Migs^ | there's TONS of new Christmas music that comes out each year |
| 19:25.01 | eightyeight | yeah, and it's c.r.a.p. |
| 19:25.06 | ^Migs^ | Wrong. |
| 19:25.12 | eightyeight | rarely is any of it even halfway decent |
| 19:25.21 | ^Migs^ | And if you hate Christmas music, then yes, you're by definition a jerk. |
| 19:25.35 | ^Migs^ | when you hate Christmas, you hate baby Jesus |
| 19:26.33 | mulicheng | I can see room for someone hating how our society celebrates Christmas without hating baby Jesus. |
| 19:26.42 | unum | Jesus wasn't born at christmas |
| 19:26.57 | mulicheng | unum: that was my next comment. |
| 19:27.36 | unum | actually I like some of the religious/classical stuff |
| 19:27.37 | eightyeight | unum: bingo |
| 19:27.48 | ^Migs^ | sure he was. Certainly centuries of religious tradition couldn't possibly be wrong |
| 19:27.53 | {-} | agrees with eightyeight |
| 19:27.55 | unum | I don't think there's a single secular christmas song that I ever want to hear |
| 19:28.20 | eightyeight | christmas is nothing more than mindless droll commercialized for the masses |
| 19:28.25 | unum | what do historians know,right? april pshhhah |
| 19:28.39 | {-} | The only thing worse than Christmas music is Mormon music. (Mo Tab excepted.) |
| 19:28.39 | mulicheng | I like to do all our Christmas shopping before Thanksgiving. |
| 19:28.44 | ^Migs^ | Nonsense |
| 19:28.49 | unum | sends {-} some michael mcclean |
| 19:28.50 | ^Migs^ | Mormon music is just as awesome as Christmas music |
| 19:28.53 | eightyeight | {-}: christian music in general |
| 19:28.55 | ^Migs^ | the BEST is Mormon Christmas music |
| 19:29.15 | unum | I think I have a david brickman cd.... |
| 19:29.20 | eightyeight | i like how we've found the meaning of life, yet we sing like a bunch of dead individuals |
| 19:29.26 | eightyeight | bbiab |
| 19:29.48 | ^Migs^ | david brickman? |
| 19:30.06 | {-} | revokes ^Migs^'s music priveleges |
| 19:30.13 | unum | I'll have to look at the cd again |
| 19:30.22 | unum | I don't know I've ever played it... |
| 19:30.33 | ^Migs^ | do you mean jim brickman? |
| 19:30.34 | unum | I have cd's of christmas music, they were both gifts |
| 19:30.40 | unum | that sounds better |
| 19:31.00 | unum | yes, that's who I meant |
| 19:31.01 | fungus | christmas music cd = coaster/frisbee |
| 19:33.01 | fungus | secular christmas music is repetitive annoying crap |
| 19:33.20 | fozzmoo | jingle jingle jingle jingle jingle |
| 19:33.46 | unum | I like handel's messiah |
| 19:35.15 | fungus | religious christmas music is droning, self-righteous, melodramatic crap |
| 19:36.24 | ^Migs^ | how is christmas music self-righteous? |
| 19:36.35 | ^Migs^ | the only Christmas song I hate is Christmas Shoes |
| 19:36.42 | ^Migs^ | OMFG I hate that song |
| 19:37.44 | elg | {-} motab is one of the worst offenders |
| 19:37.54 | elg | only surpassed by michael mclean in my book |
| 19:38.14 | unum | I have to admit, I fail to see how handel's messiah is self righteous |
| 19:38.20 | elg | their only redeeming virtue is they're backed by a really nice organ |
| 19:39.26 | {-} | When motab sticks to hymns, I enjoy it. |
| 19:40.05 | {-} | Most other Mormon musicians feel a need to "improve" them or something. |
| 19:40.36 | {-} | To say nothing of their "modern" saccharine sweet abominations. |
| 19:41.51 | fozzmoo | Hmm. I'm okay with most Christmas music, but it gets annoying by late November. :) |
| 19:43.51 | JoshH | only time i've ever heard motab is when they did the anthem at the jazz game and they showed it on tv. i thought it didn't sound that great, but i'm not big on choirs in general |
| 19:44.57 | unum | so ^Migs^ are you a big fan of forgotten carols then? |
| 19:45.44 | elg | they do do a good job of rendering hymns, when they don't get too melodramatic about it. my fav motab cd by far is one with straight up hymns (not all of which are in our hymnbook, so more general) |
| 19:46.34 | elg | what i like about christmas music is that je ne se quox (nor how to spell it) "lilt" to christmas music that is rarely found in any other music. |
| 19:46.58 | elg | maybe i'm a bit happier than the average composer, so i resonate most with their happiest music |
| 19:47.02 | elg | dunno |
| 19:47.18 | {-} | ~ruin elg's day |
| 19:47.20 | elg | and then there's the memories and other emotional attachments |
| 19:47.35 | {-} | ~crush elg's spirit |
| 19:47.36 | ibot | ACTION crushes elg's spirit with a full height scsi disk |
| 19:48.09 | elg | i enjoy the holidays as a time, and I enjoy the music for setting that mood, along with things like fire, snow, bad drivers, etc. |
| 19:49.27 | unum | maybe I just have bad christmas memories, and that's why I don't care for christmas music |
| 19:49.34 | unum | actually I think all my memories are bad |
| 19:49.50 | elg | (on the other hand i'm a music snob and like to turn my nose up at most of those sappy happy composers that write most of the drivel on the 24/7 christmas stations) |
| 19:50.09 | fozzmoo | unum: Too much coal in your stockings? |
| 19:50.27 | unum | too many clothes, not enough toys |
| 19:50.40 | fozzmoo | unum: You're a spoiled brat! |
| 19:51.11 | unum | I know I am, but what are you? |
| 19:51.16 | fozzmoo | (but we knew that already.) :) |
| 19:51.33 | mulicheng | Hm, I still would rather get toys than clothes for Christmas, and I'm in my 30s :) |
| 19:51.52 | unum | now I get rugs |
| 19:52.23 | fozzmoo | hmmm. I'm hungry. |
| 19:52.24 | mulicheng | My in-laws never fail to get me at least one shirt though. |
| 19:52.41 | rsimpkins | The toys I want all cost more than $3000. I need really rich uncle. :) |
| 19:52.54 | mulicheng | I have to $$ toys on my list to. |
| 19:52.54 | {-} | Well maybe if your rugs didn't smell like urine every time family visited, they wouldn't keep buying you new ones. |
| 19:53.04 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Ditto. |
| 19:54.37 | unum | I like to tell my nephews/nieces what I got for christmas, just to see the disappointment on their faces |
| 19:54.56 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: I want this thing as a stocking stuffer - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MotifXS8/ |
| 19:55.18 | ^Migs^ | forgotten carols...used to be |
| 19:55.19 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: That would be fun. |
| 19:55.25 | ^Migs^ | yeah, it's okay, I guess |
| 19:55.33 | ^Migs^ | haven't really listened to that stuff in a long time |
| 19:55.37 | ^Migs^ | I think you're taking me too seriously through all this |
| 19:56.22 | fozzmoo | wants a prosumer HD camcorder. |
| 19:57.09 | fozzmoo | heads to Del Taco |
| 19:58.36 | fungus | wants a new quad-core iMac |
| 20:02.57 | ^Migs^ | I had Taco Bell last night and I've been ripping stinky ones all morning |
| 20:04.29 | elg | i think you're taking taco bell far too seriously |
| 20:04.53 | ^Migs^ | I love Taco Bell |
| 20:05.06 | ^Migs^ | I could eat it every day if I could |
| 20:05.14 | ^Migs^ | s/I could eat/I would eat/ |
| 20:05.48 | elg | i've had mcdonalds more recently than taco bell. that's how bad it is |
| 20:06.08 | elg | and we're talking about a timescale of years here. |
| 20:06.10 | unum | I've eaten at taco bell once in my life |
| 20:06.22 | whiteinge | unum: still recovering? |
| 20:06.29 | unum | whiteinge: ya |
| 20:06.48 | unum | though I grew up eating taco time and taco maker all the time |
| 20:06.57 | unum | even ate at fiesta ole occasionally |
| 20:07.08 | elg | is away: gourmet lunch |
| 20:16.06 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@98.202.14.89) |
| 20:18.34 | utahcon | ok |
| 20:19.28 | *** join/#utah utahcon_ (n=utahcon@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:21.29 | brasto | where's exim's virt user table, and what's a good resource for starting from scratch on exim? |
| 20:22.06 | brasto | I went to the exim site and followed some links, and did a google search or two |
| 20:22.54 | *** join/#utah utahcon_ (n=utahcon@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:22.57 | brasto | but most of what I find is about configuring exim and seems to assume you already have your virt user table set up |
| 20:23.02 | unum | virt user table? you mean the alias file? |
| 20:23.22 | brasto | no, alias is different, unless exim treats them the same |
| 20:23.35 | unum | I think I know what you mean now |
| 20:23.37 | unum | no it doesn't |
| 20:23.40 | brasto | in sendmail, it's /etc/mail/virtusertable |
| 20:23.55 | unum | I'm using postgres |
| 20:24.22 | unum | I don't know if there is a default virtusertable |
| 20:25.04 | brasto | postgres is a database, not an mta... |
| 20:26.01 | unum | what I meant is my virtual users are in a posgresql database |
| 20:26.02 | unum | not a file |
| 20:26.10 | unum | it looks like I added the config for that by hand |
| 20:26.13 | brasto | ah, i was just figuring that out when you said that |
| 20:26.14 | brasto | lol |
| 20:27.12 | unum | virtual_user: driver = redirect allow_fail allow_defer data = ${lookup pgsql { SELECT maildir FROM users WHERE userid='${local_part}@${domain}' }} directory_transport = address_directory |
| 20:27.14 | brasto | hmmm, I think I'd prefer a file for mail users so I don't have to log into a database to make changes every time just for mail, but using a database is also intriguing... |
| 20:28.00 | unum | how aften are you making these sort of changes by hand? |
| 20:30.24 | brasto | I don't expect it will be all that often for this particular exim install, but overall, for multiple servers, I like to find things in generally the same place. |
| 20:30.35 | *** join/#utah tyce (n=tyce@69.169.175.23.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 20:30.47 | brasto | where's that virtual_user line, unum? |
| 20:30.50 | tyce | anyone know how to omit socket files when using rsync? |
| 20:31.02 | unum | brasto: I added it to the router section |
| 20:31.23 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 20:31.56 | *** part/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 20:33.52 | fungus | tyce, don't specify -D in your args. |
| 20:34.13 | fungus | -a implies -rlptgoD |
| 20:34.27 | fungus | so you may need to replace your -a with -rlptgo |
| 20:35.38 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 20:35.42 | tyce | currently using rsync -azSH |
| 20:36.03 | tyce | fungus: so you're saying -rlptgozSH ? |
| 20:36.08 | fungus | yup |
| 20:36.16 | tyce | thanks you sir |
| 20:37.24 | fungus | or... -azSH --no-D |
| 20:37.36 | tyce | they do the same thing? |
| 20:38.00 | fungus | yup. --no-D just provides an exception for the implied -D in -a |
| 20:38.23 | brasto | unum, that's in /etc/exim/ somewhere? I'm not currently connected to the server that has exim on it. |
| 20:40.04 | unum | brasto: I have mine split out in to multiple directories. So that is file /etc/exim4/conf.d/router/999_exim4-config_pgsql_user |
| 20:40.26 | unum | I'm pretty sure I created that file by hand |
| 20:45.51 | *** join/#utah MysGeek (n=cletaker@host-74-211-92-182.beyondbb.com) |
| 20:46.51 | unum | I find it easier to look through it with the multiple directories method |
| 20:46.56 | unum | which distro is this on? |
| 20:47.33 | MysGeek | Not sure. Been a long time since I've been on IRC. |
| 20:48.01 | unum | oh sorry, I was asking someone else that question about config file they were trying to find |
| 20:48.38 | MysGeek | Sorry.... lol.... I jump in with both feet. |
| 20:48.46 | MysGeek | And few brains. |
| 20:49.04 | brasto | ok, I remember reading a bit about specifying additional config files in the main config file unum. I'll be playing with exim tomorrow, so I may jump in here and ask for help. Of course, I'll be stubborn at first and try to do things myself first, then I'll probably hop on here for help :). |
| 20:50.13 | unum | well if it's split into multiple files there are a couple of things you need to know |
| 20:50.31 | unum | you actually run command two update the config file that exim is using |
| 20:50.45 | unum | conf.template or something like that |
| 20:50.54 | unum | so you could just make all the changes there |
| 20:57.27 | ^Migs^ | http://www.doctoroctoroc.com/video-game-inspired-music/8-bit-jesus-new-christmas-chip-tune-album/ |
| 21:04.13 | *** join/#utah mecworks (n=marc@nat/novell/x-eoctsgdqbiuzowts) |
| 21:32.18 | levi | Aw man, I missed the Christmas Music discussion. |
| 21:32.50 | elg | levi: and it's only halfway through november! |
| 21:33.04 | levi | I don't hate Christmas music per se, but I hate 24/7 Christmas stations. |
| 21:34.09 | levi | I think that mostly I hate them because they're soft rock/easy listening stations, and so all the non-traditional songs are in that style. |
| 21:34.50 | elg | know what I hate? that there's only some 24-odd hours of mannheim steamroller christmas music. ;-) |
| 21:35.16 | levi | You're a Mannheim Steamroller fan? |
| 21:35.24 | elg | indeed |
| 21:36.01 | elg | though listening to it until your ears turn blue will make it a little old, I enjoy the interpretations and period-accurate renditions mixture |
| 21:36.05 | {-} | ~steamroll elg |
| 21:36.06 | ibot | ACTION flattens elg with a steamroller |
| 21:36.15 | levi | I certainly like them better than the easy listening stuff. |
| 21:38.12 | levi | What about Trans-Siberian Orchestra? |
| 21:39.40 | elg | wears thin much much sooner |
| 21:39.44 | levi | I dig metal guitar solos in my Christmas music. ;) |
| 21:39.49 | elg | but that could be because i've never been much of a metalhead |
| 21:39.54 | elg | it is fun |
| 21:40.14 | elg | but all the songs sound the same |
| 21:40.18 | levi | I'm not really a metalhead either, but I appreciate aspects of the sound. |
| 21:40.36 | levi | And I've never heard a whole TSO album, just whatever they play on the radio. |
| 21:41.01 | eightyeight | {-}: oh man, you nailed that on the head. when the motab sticks with hymns, it's great. after that... |
| 21:41.09 | elg | the rest of the album sounds just like the ones they play on the radio, except for the ones that sound suspciously like sappy light rock songs |
| 21:41.12 | elg | ballads |
| 21:41.16 | eightyeight | julie de azevedo, michael mclean, kurt bestor... on and on and on |
| 21:41.21 | eightyeight | pukes |
| 21:41.34 | levi | I loved that stuff... on my mission, when I couldn't listen to anything else. |
| 21:41.35 | elg | some of kurt bestor's stuff is quite good |
| 21:41.48 | eightyeight | and nothing is more annoying than members feeling they need to sing that crap in sacrament meeting |
| 21:42.00 | unum | some how I got signed up for his mailing list |
| 21:42.08 | levi | Yes, Kurt Bestor isn't bad. I saw his Christmas concert one year with some friends. |
| 21:42.22 | unum | actaully a very specific email adress of mine got signed up.... |
| 21:42.40 | elg | unum+soldtospammers@gmail.com? :) |
| 21:43.03 | eightyeight | christmas, secular and religious for the most part are highly, highly irritating |
| 21:43.04 | unum | Iamobamasnumberonefan@obamanation.com |
| 21:43.05 | {-} | unum+girlfriend+betrayer@gmail.com |
| 21:43.25 | eightyeight | i have some faves, but they're few and far between, and i don't want to hear them 10 times per day during the "holidays" |
| 21:43.37 | unum | I think that's my major issue |
| 21:43.51 | unum | of course if you've worked retail during christmas..... |
| 21:44.03 | {-} | In moderation, I enjoy tradition and techno Christmas music. |
| 21:44.33 | levi | I really like the backstage jam version of God Rest Ye Merry that BNL and Sarah McLachlan. |
| 21:44.43 | eightyeight | i enjoy some manheim steamroller, and some transiberian orchestra |
| 21:45.54 | eightyeight | i usually enjoy the parody tunes however, just because they're making fun of christmas, and that makes me smile |
| 21:47.21 | ^Migs^ | I generally think Mannheim Steamroller is stupid |
| 21:47.33 | ^Migs^ | and I'm not impressed with Kurt Bestor lately |
| 21:47.38 | {-} | ~disintegrate ^Migs^ |
| 21:47.40 | levi | I generally think ^Migs^ is stupid, but hey. |
| 21:47.47 | ^Migs^ | frankly, I don't think I even like listening to Christmas music. I just like playing. |
| 21:47.52 | levi | I think that may just be an act. ;) |
| 21:48.00 | ^Migs^ | sometimes it is |
| 21:48.10 | {-} | ~silence ^Migs^ |
| 21:48.11 | ibot | ACTION shoves an apple in ^Migs^'s mouth, shoves a spit through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting |
| 21:48.11 | ^Migs^ | other times the stupidity is probably genuine |
| 21:48.51 | eightyeight | unum: i worked at rc willey, where the calendar is entirely based on "x-days until christmas" where x is any number between 366 and 0 |
| 21:49.00 | eightyeight | every, single, day |
| 21:49.09 | eightyeight | "182 days until christmas! yay!" |
| 21:49.29 | eightyeight | that might have had some part in my hatred towards the celebration of the holidy |
| 21:49.34 | unum | we didn't start really talking about christmas until september |
| 21:49.35 | eightyeight | s/dy/day/ |
| 21:49.51 | unum | I think we managed not to play music until after halloween |
| 21:50.05 | eightyeight | that and everyone expects something out of someone, regardless of who they are |
| 21:50.48 | levi | I do my best to completely ignore Christmas until mid-December, at which point I can enjoy it without being sick to death of it by the time the actual date comes up. |
| 21:50.50 | eightyeight | charities expect your patronage. your brother is expecting a gameboy. you parents are expecting a book. whatever. everyone is about receiving rather than giving |
| 21:51.16 | eightyeight | and giving is only guilt-ridden. because if you don't give, you're not into the spirit of christmas |
| 21:51.32 | mulicheng | It's ok eightyeight. I don't expect anything from you. |
| 21:52.11 | eightyeight | on the flip, thanksgiving is the greatest holiday of the year, in my book. |
| 21:52.39 | romanovic | :O 10 days until Thanksgiving! |
| 21:52.50 | eightyeight | no presents. no thanksgiving tunes. no guilt. no charities. just visiting with family, eating and lounging about because you're too full to do anything |
| 21:53.04 | levi | Mostly because it's forgotten between the Halloween and Christmas marketing blitzes these days. ;) |
| 21:53.05 | ^Migs^ | okay I DO agree with that |
| 21:53.09 | ^Migs^ | I HATE the whole gift-giving thing |
| 21:53.39 | ^Migs^ | I hate the fact that because my wife's friend's family felt the need to announce that they found a PERFECT Christmas gift for us, that we are now obligated to buy something for them, when we otherwise never would have |
| 21:53.42 | eightyeight | so, that's why i think christmas and christmas songs suck. the earlier we can get to dec 31st, the better |
| 21:53.51 | ^Migs^ | that has NOTHING to do with Christmas music, though |
| 21:55.16 | ^Migs^ | what also pisses me off are all the kids trying to tell my kids there's no Santa |
| 21:55.24 | mulicheng | See what you did levi? Brought up this whole conversation again. |
| 21:55.27 | mulicheng | ~blame levi |
| 21:55.28 | ibot | ACTION blames levi (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 21:55.28 | ^Migs^ | I wish it was appropriate to smack other people's children |
| 21:55.39 | levi | Well, no one was talking about anything else. |
| 21:55.56 | mulicheng | excuses excuses. |
| 21:56.11 | eightyeight | there is no santa. telling your kids there is means your an untrusting parent |
| 21:56.16 | elg | i enjoy gift giving. human nature ensures that there will be awkwardness |
| 21:56.18 | ^Migs^ | bull crap |
| 21:56.26 | eightyeight | "well, we told you lies when you were a kid, because it's cute" |
| 21:56.27 | ^Migs^ | what's untrusting about it? |
| 21:56.34 | ^Migs^ | It's not because it's cute |
| 21:56.37 | elg | so take the awkwardness in stride or go antisocial, whatever. |
| 21:57.05 | ^Migs^ | it's because it instills a sense of magic into the holiday. I remember all the wonderful things that went through my head on Christmas Eve, just thinking about how Santa would be coming. That's a great thing for kids. |
| 21:57.09 | levi | So, thinking of the metal guitar in TSO made me pull out my iPod and put on The Decemberists - The Hazards of Love, which is probably the best use of metal guitar in a rock opera in my collection. ;) |
| 21:57.18 | fungus | ^Migs^, kids spoiling other kids belief in santa has been going on for decades |
| 21:57.21 | ^Migs^ | It helps them with their imagination skills. |
| 21:57.29 | elg | i've chosen the latter route on many things, but the former for christmas. I don't care which you choose for any one thing in particular. except maybe vim/emacs and even that is less potent than it once was. |
| 21:57.33 | {-} | points out that eightyeight has done more than anyone in the channel to make everything think about Christmas in November |
| 21:57.44 | ^Migs^ | fungus: I'm quick to tell my kids that there IS a Santa, and those other kids are wrong. |
| 21:57.47 | eightyeight | hah |
| 21:57.50 | eightyeight | touche |
| 21:57.52 | eightyeight | i'll shut up |
| 21:58.01 | ^Migs^ | and I've even "proved" it to them, because they see Santa at the mall, and he leaves the cover over our fireplace slightly ajar |
| 21:58.24 | mulicheng | At our house, he eats the cookies :) |
| 21:58.33 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 21:58.40 | ^Migs^ | that's further proof of Santa |
| 21:58.52 | ^Migs^ | sometimes you can even find reindeer turds outside |
| 21:59.04 | elg | i can't see myself arguing or proving that santa exists. i'd just eat the cookies and shrug my shoulders when the kids get excited |
| 21:59.06 | fungus | Santa's reindeer don't poo |
| 21:59.15 | fungus | they magically make it disappear |
| 21:59.22 | ^Migs^ | last year my kids sprinkled reindeer food all over our front yard, and there were hoofprints all over the snow in the morning |
| 21:59.31 | levi | Later on, when they're older and know the truth, you can use it as an object lesson in why you should be skeptical of people claiming amazing things. ;) |
| 21:59.33 | ^Migs^ | and the food was all gone |
| 21:59.40 | elg | i have no problem with them believing but i'm not going to put myself in the place of the one that shoved it down their little mind-holes until they were old enough to emancipate their brains from my tyranny |
| 22:00.30 | ^Migs^ | I don't know why you people hate Christmas so much that you want to take the happiness of it away from children |
| 22:00.32 | fungus | sees many correlations to religion |
| 22:00.35 | {-} | elg: Admit it, you have a very long list of ways you're going to warp your children's minds for fun. |
| 22:00.37 | ^Migs^ | do you....hate children too? |
| 22:01.06 | elg | i love christmas, holidays, and most of the secular myths and traditions. I enjoy enjoying them alongside my children |
| 22:01.15 | ^Migs^ | atta boi elg |
| 22:01.27 | elg | which is different from saying i propogate the myths as truths. |
| 22:01.40 | ^Migs^ | I'm the ultimate propagator |
| 22:01.40 | {-} | My grandfather died when I was pretty young, but thanks to the boogie man I have at least some memories of him (and his basement). |
| 22:01.50 | ^Migs^ | I will defend the existence of Santa to my kids until the day I die |
| 22:01.59 | elg | that'll look pretty sily |
| 22:02.03 | elg | unless you die soon... |
| 22:02.16 | ^Migs^ | they'll have to figure it out on their own, because I'll never confess |
| 22:03.14 | {-} | "Get me out of this hospital bed! I need to put out present for my grandchildren because my children still think Santa will do it for them." |
| 22:03.27 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha |
| 22:05.29 | elg | fungus: true. i think the main distinguishing feature is that parents teaching religion to their children are generally believers. somehow I don't think ^Migs^ believes in santa |
| 22:05.41 | elg | but if he does, someone better start protecting him from eightyeight |
| 22:05.56 | elg | cuz i bet eightyeight will totally spoil it and tell him santa doesn't exist. |
| 22:06.10 | fungus | agreed. |
| 22:06.56 | ^Migs^ | eightyeight would probably even tell the baby Jesus Santa doesn't exist. That's how anti-Christmas he is. |
| 22:09.42 | fungus | I would tell baby jesus, that he isn't magical, and just an ordinary human being. |
| 22:11.49 | ^Migs^ | well obviously, any "magic" is just science we don't understand yet |
| 22:13.43 | {-} | P-sha, I say! P-sha! Magic markers are real magic, not science. |
| 22:17.15 | elg | re kids telling kids - i think kids are refreshingly devoted to truth |
| 22:17.37 | elg | sure sometimes you've got a rotten kid who just wants to ruin johnny's day by telling him santa's fake |
| 22:18.13 | elg | but mostly I think they are just straightening out what they see as an affront to truth, in typical childful tactlessness |
| 22:18.33 | elg | http://xkcd.com/386/ |
| 22:18.34 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 22:19.22 | elg | other recent examples. "you said we were doing this for the show" |
| 22:19.23 | ^Migs^ | doesn't make me want to smack the kids any less |
| 22:25.13 | {-} | ~smack ^Migs^ |
| 22:25.14 | ibot | ACTION smacks ^Migs^ upside the head. |
| 22:27.19 | levi | Kids are pretty good at giving people reasons for wanting to smack them. |
| 22:30.55 | ^Migs^ | ~whaleslap {-} |
| 22:30.55 | ibot | ACTION beats {-} upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 22:31.19 | {-} | ~whalenuke ^Migs^ |
| 22:31.20 | ibot | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around ^Migs^ with his mind powers. |
| 22:31.28 | ^Migs^ | ~whalebomb {-} |
| 22:31.29 | ibot | ACTION throws an explosive whale named Gunter at {-} and hides. |
| 22:31.52 | mulicheng | "***ibot dons her***.. hm, it never occurred to me that ibot was female. |
| 22:32.37 | ^Migs^ | that's hot |
| 22:33.14 | elg | ~gender |
| 22:33.14 | ibot | I'm not sure |
| 22:39.03 | levi | ibot's gender is variable. |
| 22:39.29 | mulicheng | Can it switch on the fly? |
| 22:39.35 | mulicheng | ~mate ibot |
| 22:39.42 | levi | ~gender |
| 22:39.43 | ibot | I'm lesbian |
| 22:39.55 | levi | ~gender |
| 22:39.55 | ibot | I'm gay |
| 22:40.06 | levi | ~gender |
| 22:40.07 | ibot | I'm sexless |
| 22:40.28 | levi | Well, you get the picture. |
| 22:46.58 | levi | {-}: So, you're a SLLUG man these days? |
| 22:47.53 | {-} | Not really. I refuse to participate on the list because of the rampant top posting. |
| 22:48.19 | {-} | But I live nearby, and I like mecworks, so I figure I might as well present once in a while. |
| 22:48.25 | levi | I was speaking more of attending meetings than list participation. |
| 22:48.32 | romanovic | haha |
| 22:48.47 | *** join/#utah ldav15 (n=ldav15@67.214.231.154) |
| 22:50.02 | romanovic | recalls the hundreds of anti-top-posting emails on sllug mailing list |
| 22:51.05 | ^Migs^ | "unfriend" is Oxford Dictionary's newest word of the year: http://mashable.com/2009/11/16/unfriend-word-of-the-year/ |
| 22:54.01 | {-} | ~unfriend ^Migs^ |
| 22:54.12 | {-} | If ibot doesn't know it, it isn't a word. |
| 22:54.52 | mulicheng | ~learn unfriend |
| 22:57.15 | ^Migs^ | http://www.lamebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Drama2.png |
| 22:57.16 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 22:59.08 | ^Migs^ | http://www.lamebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/parents-sex2.png |
| 23:04.15 | eightyeight | just got out of a linear algebra quiz. nailed it |
| 23:04.51 | fozzmoo | eightyeight: Congrats. |
| 23:05.11 | eightyeight | thx man |
| 23:05.22 | levi | Time to go listen to Christmas music in celebration! |
| 23:05.40 | eightyeight | as long as i can't hear it. :) |
| 23:05.52 | levi | Here, I'll put on 'Christmas Shoes' for you. |
| 23:06.31 | eightyeight | invite santa over for a listen while you're at it |
| 23:09.07 | *** join/#utah mp_ (i=mp@trans.xmission.com) |
| 23:09.37 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225) |
| 23:15.07 | romanovic | i like most christmas music, however, Christmas Shoes fills me with hate every time i hear it |
| 23:16.55 | romanovic | it is the most overplayed christmas song |
| 23:17.51 | eightyeight | there's no such thing as the most overplayed christmas song. they're all overplayed the same amount |
| 23:19.01 | levi | Christmas Shoes just sucks, whether you hear it one time or a hundred. |
| 23:22.03 | levi | Hmm, .NET Micro framework released by Microsoft under the Apache license. |
| 23:25.45 | ^Migs^ | how can anyone actually like Christmas Shoes? |
| 23:26.08 | levi | I don't know. Apparently some people do, though, or it wouldn't continue to be played. |
| 23:26.28 | eightyeight | levi: i don't think that's the whole truth |
| 23:26.32 | levi | Unless the DJs at the 24/7 Christmas stations just have a sadistic streak. |
| 23:26.59 | RyanE | I don't even *know* what Christmas Shoes sounds like. It's my wife's most hated song ever, and she's a Christmas person. |
| 23:27.08 | eightyeight | i have a tendency to believe that what is played on the radio is a combination of what people like, as well as what the music industry wants you to like |
| 23:27.11 | RyanE | A friend of hers *loves* the song. |
| 23:27.33 | eightyeight | i don't buy the whole "billboard" ranking system as 100% user based |
| 23:27.57 | {-} | *ahem* |
| 23:27.58 | {-} | http://www.tuxradar.com/content/microsoft-open-sources-net-micro-framework |
| 23:28.03 | {-} | I told you so. |
| 23:28.10 | {-} | Thank you very much. |
| 23:28.13 | {-} | Have a nice day. |
| 23:28.18 | eightyeight | what? oss? in this channel? |
| 23:28.24 | eightyeight | ~shun {-} |
| 23:28.25 | ibot | You are dead to me, {-}. |
| 23:28.40 | levi | {-}: Yes, well, that was lost in all the Christmas music discussion. |
| 23:30.01 | fungus | is listening to: Christmas Time For My Penis by The Vandals on Oi! To The World (Christmas wi |
| 23:31.44 | fungus | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0XDSPZR1AI |
| 23:31.53 | fungus | mildly nsfw |
| 23:35.45 | eightyeight | just curious, but how many atheists are in this channel? and out of those, how many tell their kids there's a santa? |
| 23:36.02 | eightyeight | because i was just thinking, i believe in god, and teach my kids the same, but not the case with santa |
| 23:37.10 | fungus | raises hand |
| 23:37.20 | JoshH | eightyeight: i will teach my kids about santa until they are in 2nd or 3rd grade or so, probably |
| 23:37.22 | fungus | I have no kids though. unless you count furry ones... |
| 23:37.31 | JoshH | but even if i didn't want to, my wife would insist |
| 23:37.49 | JoshH | i don't see the harm in believing in the fun kids christmas stuff |
| 23:37.52 | eightyeight | yeah. my wife and i differ on opinion with the santa claus thing |
| 23:38.06 | mulicheng | I've heard many people who have no kids give advice about kids... until they have their own kids that is. |
| 23:38.13 | JoshH | what's your problem with it? |
| 23:38.16 | eightyeight | JoshH: but that's just it. what's the harm in believing in god? |
| 23:38.16 | ^Migs^ | i will teach my kids about santa until I can no longer refute their anti-santa arguments |
| 23:38.33 | ^Migs^ | I know, mulicheng |
| 23:38.45 | ^Migs^ | what's also funny is how people with only nieces and nephews try to relate to people with kids |
| 23:38.48 | ^Migs^ | as if they have a clue what's really going on |
| 23:38.59 | eightyeight | is a father |
| 23:39.07 | JoshH | eightyeight: imo, nothing wrong with "believing" in it, i just don't like the idea of teaching those beliefs seriously, since nobody has any clue what the truth is. i'd rather my kids come up with their beliefs naturally. |
| 23:39.26 | ^Migs^ | since when do kids come up with beliefs naturally? |
| 23:39.33 | JoshH | they don't, but adults can |
| 23:39.35 | ^Migs^ | parents are the PRIMARY provider of their initial beliefs |
| 23:39.50 | JoshH | i don't believe anything now that i believed when i was 10 |
| 23:40.28 | JoshH | kids are impressionable and will just believe whatever they are told, if they are told something |
| 23:40.38 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@c-98-202-253-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:41.08 | eightyeight | fungus: so, you're an atheist? if you have kids, will you teach them to believe in a santa? |
| 23:42.27 | fungus | yes, if I have kids, I probably will teach them about santa, just to make it one less reason to be considered a freak in school. |
| 23:42.48 | JoshH | believing in santa and the easter bunny and the tooth fairy is harmless fun and somethign all kids have to go through |
| 23:43.02 | fungus | but I won't push it. when they ask questions, I will definitely teach them critical thinking, as that is much more important. |
| 23:43.13 | fungus | critical thinking > "faith" |
| 23:43.16 | JoshH | kill the intellectual!!! |
| 23:43.26 | eightyeight | fungus: i won't argue that last point |
| 23:44.07 | eightyeight | fungus: that's where i'm coming from. i'll let my child learn about the traditions and history of santa, but i can't bring myself to tell them he's real |
| 23:44.19 | eightyeight | same with the easter bunny, tooth fairy and great pumpkin |
| 23:44.41 | JoshH | i don't think it's a big deal either way |
| 23:44.44 | eightyeight | i want them to think, not blindlessly follow the traditions of their culture |
| 23:44.49 | JoshH | but if he goes around spreading the truth at school, otehr parents might be pissed at you |
| 23:44.52 | fungus | I agree. tradition is fun, but blind faith and lying to your children is bad |
| 23:45.18 | JoshH | i found out santa wasn't real in 2nd grade when some girl i knew told me that her mom told her the truth |
| 23:45.26 | fungus | hehe, if he teaches his friends critical thinking, and gives scientific evidence, I would be proud! |
| 23:45.30 | JoshH | so i had to go home and ask my mom, and well, life was never the same |
| 23:45.46 | eightyeight | why can't christmas be just as "magic" learning about where santa came from, and why people think he exists, rather than believing yourself? |
| 23:46.02 | eightyeight | after all, kids are just after the presents and candy anyway. they really could care less who it came from |
| 23:46.37 | jalbretsen | ALL PRAISE TO THE MIGHTY SHATNER! RULER OF THE UNIVERSE! |
| 23:46.42 | eightyeight | the magic, is the numerous surprises under the tree |
| 23:47.26 | JoshH | or the miracle of jebus, depending on the family |
| 23:48.44 | ^Migs^ | I will also defend the Easter Bunny's existence until the day I die. |
| 23:48.56 | eightyeight | why? what's the point? |
| 23:49.26 | ^Migs^ | because it's abusive to devastate a child's dreams |
| 23:50.02 | eightyeight | the child only has those dreams, because you put them there. then you get to destroy them later. you're the problem to begin with |
| 23:50.20 | fungus | you need to teach them how to deal with reality and failed dreams early |
| 23:50.20 | eightyeight | so, remove yourself from the equation |
| 23:50.28 | fungus | before they end up in therapy |
| 23:50.34 | ^Migs^ | it's not just me, it's all society that reinforces these dreams |
| 23:50.40 | ^Migs^ | it's in THEIR best interest to go along with it |
| 23:51.13 | eightyeight | fungus: sure. but why tell them lies, only for them to face disappointment, when the disappointment could be avoided by not telling them lies? |
| 23:52.02 | JoshH | i know an old mormon lady who believes that the day jesus comes down and takes everyone to heaven or whatever (she calls it "the millenium") is going to happen in 3 or 4 years or so, and tells her grandkids not to even bother trying to get good at football for an NFL career, because "it won't matter anyway since the millenium is coming soon" |
| 23:52.18 | fungus | were you scarred for life when you found out. It's quite easy to get over. |
| 23:52.37 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@out1-1601fw.corp.tfbnw.net) |
| 23:52.38 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg_] by ChanServ |
| 23:52.39 | eightyeight | me? no. i figured that was the case before the truth was revealed |
| 23:53.18 | eightyeight | i just don't see any benefit in lying to children |
| 23:53.31 | fungus | To make them more like their friends. |
| 23:53.47 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 23:53.47 | eightyeight | crabs in a bucket |
| 23:53.53 | ^Migs^ | that's a funny lady |
| 23:54.06 | fungus | have you seen the horrors of the kids that have strange parents that teach them funny things. |
| 23:54.54 | romanovic | i don't remember the point at which i found out there was no santa, it must not have been very traumatic |
| 23:54.54 | fungus | exactly |
| 23:54.54 | ^Migs^ | yeah, me neither |
| 23:55.08 | fungus | But when they are old enough to question, use it as a teaching moment. |
| 23:55.19 | ^Migs^ | it was more like, mom and dad and I shared a secret that we didn't want my little sister to know about, which made it even more cool |
| 23:55.34 | ^Migs^ | sucks for the youngest kid, though |
| 23:55.34 | eightyeight | so lying to children that won't have traumatic effects later in life is okay? |
| 23:55.35 | fungus | support their questioning, teach them to think for themselves, etc |
| 23:55.47 | eightyeight | meh. i'll digress |
| 23:55.49 | JoshH | eightyeight: it's not really "lying" imo |
| 23:55.59 | JoshH | it's like telling your little kid that babies come from storks |
| 23:56.17 | eightyeight | how is that not a lie? is it the truth? |
| 23:56.40 | romanovic | The Julenisse came to visit us on our christmas eve family dinner, and i remember him smelling suspiciously like Uncle Jack |
| 23:56.53 | fungus | eightyeight, is right. It still is a lie. but it's a harmless one. |
| 23:56.55 | romanovic | (julenisse == norwegian santa) |
| 23:57.02 | JoshH | there are different kinds of lies |
| 23:57.07 | fungus | the kind of lie that is good. Like telling people they don't look fat. |
| 23:57.17 | elg_ | i don't remember ever truly believing in santa. but we had gifts "from santa" and so on, and I remember being careful not to break the news to younger siblings |
| 23:57.23 | eightyeight | fungus: you don't look fat |
| 23:57.24 | JoshH | or telling your wife that you did actually notice that she got her hair done |
| 23:57.35 | fungus | hehe, exactly |
| 23:57.39 | JoshH | i had to use that one on saturday |
| 23:57.42 | elg_ | but i don't remember any moment when I discovered. my parents didn't really try very hard to make me believe i guess |
| 23:57.42 | fungus | eightyeight, thank you. :) |
| 23:57.50 | eightyeight | heh. i did that once, and it backfired |
| 23:57.57 | JoshH | actually with fungus, that's true, since he looks like a toothpick |
| 23:58.03 | JoshH | in fact, i can't think of anyone skinnier |
| 23:58.15 | JoshH | other than supermodels |
| 23:58.34 | eightyeight | i could afford to lose some weight |
| 23:58.54 | fungus | hehe, yup, i'm a bit... malnourished. |
