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| 00:57.02 | Zelut | goozbach: I'm waiting for RHEV, but I'll wait until they strip out the Windows 200X Server requirement. |
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| 02:05.00 | goozbach | windows 200X server requirement? |
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| 03:09.08 | Zelut | goozbach: web interface for RHEV is .net and currently requires windows server. |
| 03:27.04 | sontek | Zelut: .NET > * |
| 03:30.54 | Zelut | sontek: perhaps, but we're not going to get a Windows license *just* so we can provision and manage our RHEL environment. |
| 03:31.34 | sontek | Zelut: Seems pretty silly for them to write the admin to not run on the operating system you are going to virtualize |
| 03:31.47 | sontek | it doesn't run on mono? |
| 03:32.12 | Zelut | sontek: well it was developed by another company before RH acquired them, and they were a Windows shop. |
| 03:32.34 | Zelut | sontek: RH wanted KVM, which these people developed, but it was a side-project to the main windows virtualization stuff. |
| 03:33.41 | Zelut | I hear they are re-writing the interface in java to decouple it all from windows, but the current release still requires Server 2003. |
| 03:36.10 | sontek | that makes more sense |
| 03:38.05 | eightyeight | aren't voter records public information? if so, shouldn't i have access to it? |
| 03:38.23 | eightyeight | referring to how specific individuals voted, not politicians |
| 03:57.07 | sjansen | Uhm, _NO_ records of how people voted are not public. |
| 03:57.35 | sjansen | That's one of the hardest things about secure voter verified electronic voting. |
| 03:58.08 | sjansen | A voter should be able to verify their vote was recorded correctly, but it shouldn't be possible for anyone else to discover how they voted. |
| 03:58.36 | sjansen | Back in the corrupt old days when votes were public, vote selling was a pretty hot business. Not so much anymore. |
| 03:59.14 | sjansen | Of did you mean whether, not how? |
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| 04:39.12 | eightyeight | sjansen: then how do polling companies grab millions and millions of voter registration information for primary and general elections? |
| 04:39.48 | eightyeight | name, dob, phone, addr, registered affiliation, voting history back years, and years, sex, etc, etc, etc |
| 04:40.28 | eightyeight | i worked for a polling company, and my job was pulling samples of some given criteria out of those voting records |
| 04:40.37 | eightyeight | from state after state |
| 04:57.39 | Sargun | sjansen, I don't think he's talking about primaries. |
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| 14:28.40 | sjansen | eightyeight: Registration includes affiliation, I think you're confusing affiliation with how people actually voted. |
| 14:29.28 | sjansen | The only way polling companies can find out how a person voted is to ask them as they walk away from the building where they voted. Nothing requires voters to tell the truth to pollsters. |
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| 14:30.08 | eightyeight | hmm... i don't think that's the data we were getting |
| 14:30.16 | sjansen | Everything is is public record, yes. |
| 14:30.24 | sjansen | s/is is/else is/ |
| 14:31.10 | sjansen | eightyeight: If you were actually getting real records of how individuals voted, talk to your former coworkers, get proof and blow the whistle. |
| 14:31.22 | sjansen | But I doubt that was the case. |
| 14:32.09 | eightyeight | the data in these databases was far too detailed to be volunteers asking how people voted |
| 14:32.27 | eightyeight | including years of voting history |
| 14:33.05 | eightyeight | but, i digress. i don't know one way or the other, without going to the source |
| 14:38.37 | TehLaser | It may be a model, rather than an actual result too. |
| 14:39.06 | TehLaser | When people canvass neighborhoods, they usually record how the people living there say they're going to vote, and correlate it with their registration, if that's available. |
| 14:39.50 | TehLaser | That's actually one of the big advantages of having a good "ground game", you build data like that for next cycle. |
| 14:42.38 | eightyeight | no. this is actual data. it's not a model |
| 14:43.10 | eightyeight | these databases are massive, with millions of records in many states, with ~200 fields |
| 14:43.31 | TehLaser | Well, I mean I could be the data on how they said they were going to/did vote. |
| 14:43.41 | TehLaser | s/I could/it could/ |
| 14:43.46 | eightyeight | fname, mname, lname, jr/sr, dob, age, sex, party affil, voting history for 10 years and tons of other very detailed data |
| 14:44.24 | eightyeight | city, state, zip, precinct, district, and on and on |
| 14:44.53 | TehLaser | But yeah, secret ballot is just that. It's supposed to be impossible to know how anyone voted. Even if the voter conspires with you. You're talking *major* crime if that data is actually what it purports to be. |
| 14:45.16 | Jayce^ | voting history by date/fact that they voted, vs how they voted are very different things |
| 14:46.43 | eightyeight | good call. i think i need to recall my previos question then |
| 14:47.01 | eightyeight | this data is binary: yes/no on voting dates. not who |
| 14:47.47 | eightyeight | it shows the party they've registered with, and if they voted on the primaries or generals. no data existed in the databases on who they voted for |
| 14:47.50 | TehLaser | Ah, yeah. "voted in 200X while registered as pinecone party, voted in 200Y while registered as sagebrush party, did not vote in 200Z while registered as sagebrush party" is public. |
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| 14:48.19 | TehLaser | Well, "public". |
| 14:48.53 | TehLaser | Orgs can get it, but mere humans tend not to. |
| 14:49.04 | eightyeight | it does show the voter information though. who the voter is, where they live, other metadat. and whether or not they voted in certain elections |
| 14:49.12 | eightyeight | i'm interested in getting that data |
| 14:49.18 | TehLaser | Yeah, that's all avaliable. |
| 14:49.24 | eightyeight | where? |
| 14:49.26 | TehLaser | It's where campaigns get mailling lists. |
| 14:49.32 | Jayce^ | county/state offices |
| 14:49.35 | TehLaser | not to you, silly human! :) |
| 14:49.41 | sjansen | http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2009/blogger-threatened-over-ballot-photo-19th-century-laws-meet-21st-century-technology-sensib |
| 14:49.46 | Jayce^ | same kinda thing as getting driver and housing information |
| 14:50.23 | TehLaser | Might be kinda like court records to. |
| 14:50.49 | TehLaser | Theoretically it's public, but you have to drive all over tarnation to a dozen courthouses every day to compile complete records. |
| 14:51.10 | TehLaser | s/to\./too/ |
| 14:51.30 | sjansen | Poking around the net a bit, I found a disturbing number of stories where public officials thought ballot were public record. Perhaps the polling company is abusing FOIA, but they certainly _shouldn't_ have the data eightyeight thinks they do. |
| 14:52.14 | eightyeight | again, the data i had access to didn't show how individuals voted, just that they did or did not |
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| 14:52.48 | TehLaser | sjansen: yah, the cell phone camera in the voting booth is a problem. |
| 14:53.40 | TehLaser | But, theoretically, you could go into the booth, mark the ballot, take a photo, go to the judge, say you goofed, get the ballot invalidated and get a new one, vote the way you want, cast *that* ballot, then show your coercer the first picture. |
| 14:53.46 | TehLaser | So it's not really that bad. |
| 14:54.22 | sjansen | Wouldn't be that bad if people were that smart. |
| 14:54.42 | TehLaser | Ditto the paper tape printer thing. That's why it prints it out and lets you invalidate it afterwards. |
| 14:55.08 | TehLaser | *and* why it formfeeds right after it marks the ballot as valid. |
| 14:55.17 | sjansen | Any corrupt politician worth his salt would have an enforcer inside the voting area to monitor. They'd get pretty suspicious if people request new ballots. |
| 14:55.20 | TehLaser | Seeming to waste a lot of paper. |
| 14:55.38 | TehLaser | Well, with the voting machines you do that privately too. |
| 14:56.05 | TehLaser | (well, you would if you put the machine in a damn booth anyway, those "privacy wing" things are pretty bogus) |
| 14:58.31 | TehLaser | More ripe for abuse is absentee or vote-by-mail things. |
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| 14:59.11 | TehLaser | There you just sign your ballot and give it to your coercer to complete as he sees fit and collect your payment/lack-of-beating. |
| 14:59.45 | TehLaser | Or, if they require you to sign across a seal or something, you do it in the presence of your coercer, then he takes it and mails it in for you. |
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| 15:01.44 | TehLaser | I wonder if you could put a line for PIN on the absentee ballot, then let people invalidate their vote online if they could provide the PIN. Then require a signature across the envelope seal, so the voter has to see the PIN. |
| 15:02.32 | TehLaser | Then the voter can just invalidate the absentee vote and go in person on election day or vote absentee again. |
| 15:03.47 | sjansen | http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/proxmox-14-released-adds-kvm-storage-features |
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| 15:09.01 | sontek | hugs sjansen |
| 15:09.06 | sontek | I love you <3 |
| 15:09.11 | sontek | hugs herlo |
| 15:09.14 | sontek | I miss you <3 |
| 15:09.42 | sjansen | Uhm... that's nice. |
| 15:09.54 | sjansen | looks at sontek quizzically |
| 15:11.22 | goozbach | dude sontek, you ok? |
| 15:11.30 | goozbach | that's a litle TOO friendly... |
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| 15:13.47 | sontek | goozbach: I'm giving up the world of .NET Programming, and it made me very loving towards my fellow Linux users |
| 15:14.08 | goozbach | I see |
| 15:14.17 | goozbach | well, where's my hug then? |
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| 15:14.49 | sontek | goozbach: I was getting to you! You were just a farther trip since I had to send my packets all the way to Georgia! |
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| 15:15.54 | eightyeight | looks at the date |
| 15:16.02 | Cyberkruz | sontek will be crying instead of hugging after you realize you don't have intellisense :) |
| 15:16.09 | Cyberkruz | <3 .net |
| 15:16.26 | sontek | Cyberkruz: vs + .NET is a waste, vim has all the code completion a man needs |
| 15:16.47 | sontek | Cyberkruz: And yes, I said a *MAN*, for you little girls needing your hand held in VS I understand... |
| 15:17.05 | Cyberkruz | sontek: Not only don't they have intellisense they can't even legally say it. |
| 15:17.06 | Cyberkruz | :) |
| 15:17.06 | sontek | hugs goozbach |
| 15:17.09 | sontek | hugs eightyeight |
| 15:17.11 | sontek | hugs Zelut |
| 15:18.09 | sjansen | goozbach: It's official, C5.4 has been released. http://lestighaniker.de/2009/10/21#centos-5.4 |
| 15:18.24 | eightyeight | old news |
| 15:19.09 | goozbach | buhaha! |
| 15:19.17 | goozbach | seeing as how I torrrented it last night |
| 15:19.19 | sjansen | eightyeight: Old as in Dag Wieers premature announcement last week? Or old as in my more correct announcement yesterday before there was anything on centos.org? |
| 15:19.33 | goozbach | and it's already imported into my cobbler server :D |
| 15:19.37 | eightyeight | i read about it yesterday on lwn |
| 15:19.47 | goozbach | rebooting my devbox right now to do an install |
| 15:19.50 | goozbach | buhahah! |
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| 15:22.50 | eightyeight | http://lwn.net/Articles/358012/rss |
| 15:22.50 | eightyeight | a day late and a dollar short |
| 15:28.04 | sjansen | wat evs ur just jealous I'm so awesome |
| 15:28.22 | goozbach | I'm the awesome one, I'm already installing it |
| 15:28.27 | goozbach | slackers |
| 15:29.31 | eightyeight | pfft. i updated my 5.3 vm last night. i'm already using it |
| 15:29.59 | jsmith | installed 5.4 a couple of different times on Tuesday |
| 15:31.05 | Jayce^ | Snotty beamed me just last night.... it was *wonderful* |
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| 15:57.18 | tensai | TehLaser: oregon has been doing vote by mail for 15 years and I've not heard of any abuse. I think it's one of those theoretical things that just doesn't work out so well in practice. |
| 15:58.02 | JoshH | i would vote by mail if i lived out in the wilderness |
| 15:58.11 | JoshH | but usually my voting place is a block or two away so i just go in |
| 15:58.22 | goozbach | takes a lot of manpower to coerce enough people to make it worth wile |
| 15:59.49 | tensai | I love vote by mail. I get a month to vote and I don't have to waste time waiting at a polling place. |
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| 16:02.42 | sjansen | goozbach: Man power was something the old political bosses had in abundance. |
| 16:03.04 | JoshH | i've never had to wait more than 5 minutes at a poll personally |
| 16:04.22 | sjansen | gets pissed at Linode |
| 16:04.36 | sjansen | They changed my MAC after a reboot. Not cool. |
| 16:04.59 | goozbach | sjansen: really? |
| 16:05.01 | goozbach | wow |
| 16:05.55 | fungus | I almost always nuke those damned persistent-net rules from udev. |
| 16:09.11 | JoshH | i do that, and add the mac to the vif line after a slice's first boot |
| 16:10.42 | TehLaser | tensai: I've heard of abuse. |
| 16:10.46 | tensai | JoshH: maybe not you, but do you remember the huge lines in ohio during the bush/gore election? |
| 16:10.57 | TehLaser | There were vote-trading websites that worked on vote-by-mail in 2004 and 2008. |
| 16:11.40 | JoshH | vaguely |
| 16:11.44 | JoshH | ohio sucks though |
| 16:11.47 | goozbach | puppet and cobbler.... PUPPET and cobbler.... puppet and COBBLER!.... PUPPET AND COBBLER!!!! |
| 16:11.55 | goozbach | yay! |
| 16:11.57 | JoshH | definitely in teh running for worst state |
| 16:12.07 | sjansen | http://www.zimbu.org/ |
| 16:12.18 | sjansen | "The } character is used to end a block. There is no {, we know where the block starts. This avoids useless discussions about where to put the {." |
| 16:12.36 | fungus | wtf! |
| 16:12.38 | goozbach | hah |
| 16:12.55 | jsmith | sjansen: Seriously? |
| 16:13.10 | fungus | screw braces, just use whitespace. so much simpler. good coders use whitespace anyway. |
| 16:13.22 | sjansen | I can't decide if that's hilarious or brilliant. Maybe both. |
| 16:13.50 | jsmith | And no semicolons... |
| 16:14.21 | sjansen | screw shoes, just use sandals. so much simpler. good coders use sandals anyway. |
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| 16:22.34 | sjansen | "All methods are only virtual when using the .default attribute, to indicate a method can be replaced in a subclass. "virtual" is not a word with an obvious meaning, "default" is simpler to understand." |
| 16:22.40 | sjansen | I don't buy that. |
| 16:23.25 | jsmith | Yuck |
| 16:25.48 | levi`` | sjansen: So, what brought this 'Zimbu' language to your attention? |
| 16:26.38 | sjansen | proggit |
| 16:27.28 | sjansen | fungus: "Avoid: Defining blocks by indent. Appears nice at first, but has problems in practice, esp. when moving code around." -- http://www.zimbu.org/design/inspiration |
| 16:29.25 | levi | Hmm, it doesn't reach my new programming language interest threshold. |
| 16:31.54 | sjansen | It reaches mine for one simple reason: "Zimbu was created by Bram Moolenaar." -- http://www.zimbu.org/Home/about-zimbu |
| 16:36.14 | sjansen | Linode's response: "The MAC address can change based on the static IP you have set for eth0." |
| 16:36.26 | JoshH | ok... |
| 16:36.35 | JoshH | switch to slicehost or dyndns |
| 16:37.24 | sjansen | Does that statement make sense to anyone? Is my imagination too limited to picture some method whereby their Xen-based VMs could determine the MAC _after_ I've booted and assigned an IP to eth0? (Never mind I'm using DHCP.) |
| 16:38.04 | sjansen | JoshH: Slicehost was inferior in my experience. dyndns has nothing to do with the problem. |
| 16:38.18 | JoshH | i mean dyndns's slice service |
| 16:38.24 | JoshH | i've heard it's awesome |
| 16:38.25 | Jayce^ | oh my.... http://www.newdelorean.com/ |
| 16:38.39 | JoshH | but it was a while ago |
| 16:38.54 | JoshH | and how was slicehost inferior to this mac address crap? |
| 16:40.20 | sjansen | Less useful management tools. Less experienced staff. Higher prices. Less reliability. |
| 16:40.46 | sjansen | didn't know dyndns did virtual hosting now |
| 16:43.57 | sjansen | Linode pricing blows dyndns out of the water. |
| 16:45.02 | eightyeight | Jayce^: i had a dream about driving a delorean the other night. keep thinking "when are they going to put out a new car?" |
| 16:49.01 | sjansen | Jayce^: I saw an old-style Delorean after work last Friday. Tried to catch up to it, but the light turned red. |
| 16:49.43 | Jayce^ | was about to say something bad about your car, if it couldn't catch a delorean..... |
| 16:50.14 | JoshH | you would think rednecks have drills, but i guess not this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8fhbJilcfI |
| 16:55.18 | sjansen | Jayce^: Most anything bad you say about my car would probably be accurate. |
| 16:56.33 | sjansen | JoshH: W?! T?! F?! |
| 16:58.46 | JoshH | he was probably worried about obama taking his gun away too |
| 17:06.47 | levi | sjansen: Oh, the vim dude. So because he can write a vi clone he's qualified to design a new language? |
| 17:08.03 | sjansen | Because he wrote the most popular Vi clone he has demonstrated the ability to build a community, manage a lot of code, and understand the importance of a tool that Just Works(TM). |
| 17:08.22 | JoshH | well it's not exactly a "clone", since it's about a billion times better |
| 17:08.54 | sjansen | Zimbu isn't going to be the coolest, purest or best. But it might become a helpful tool to Get Things Done. Or it might flop. |
| 17:09.17 | JoshH | is zimbu an ancient african word meaning something? |
| 17:09.54 | levi | My criteria for looking at languages is that they must either 1) do something theoretically interesting or 2) do something practical for me AND stand a chance of widespread adoption. |
| 17:10.50 | levi | Zimbu clearly flunks on 1, and my guess is that it'll have a serious problem with 2b. |
| 17:14.19 | JoshH | to be fair though, from the homepage, it doesn't seem to have high expectations for itself |
| 17:14.48 | rsimpkins | A deloarean without the wing doors isn't a delorean. |
| 17:15.17 | rsimpkins | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Front_high.JPG |
| 17:15.31 | levi | I'm not trying to diss him; writing a new language is a cool hobby to have. I just don't think it's a particularly interesting language. |
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| 17:18.18 | eightyeight | speaking of cars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJupNDIKkEk |
| 17:19.00 | eightyeight | oh, and the video is being shot by the driver |
| 17:20.03 | tvc123 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.47 | rsimpkins | eightyeight: I wonder what would happen if you tried to stop suddenly on such a road. |
| 17:37.26 | harleypig | http://www.xkcdb.com/?6674 |
| 17:37.28 | brac | [XKCDB: The #xkcd Quote Database] |
| 17:48.50 | eightyeight | oookaaay... |
| 17:49.46 | harleypig | heh ... surrealism is underrated |
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| 17:56.37 | levi | This looks vastly better than Zimbu: http://ooc-lang.org/about |
| 17:59.11 | goozbach | ook |
| 17:59.13 | levi | Well, on the surface anyway. |
| 18:10.48 | eightyeight | http://www.xkcdb.com/?870 |
| 18:11.15 | brac | [XKCDB: The #xkcd Quote Database] |
| 18:11.34 | goozbach | I just excaped from that site!!! |
| 18:13.24 | eightyeight | stupid quote databases are great time wasters |
| 18:18.27 | harleypig | goozbach: you can logout anytime you like, but you can never leave |
| 18:42.59 | Zelut | eightyeight: I like this one for a good time waster - http://www.schneierfacts.com/ |
| 18:48.20 | eightyeight | http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs51/f/2009/291/2/7/Karmic_Koala_Wallpaper_by_icantthinkofaname_09.jpg |
| 18:49.02 | whiteinge | Zelut: that is awesome |
| 18:55.35 | whiteinge | "When Bruce Schneier decided to factor 19, five volunteered twice; from fear." |
| 18:57.32 | Zelut | :) |
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| 19:16.37 | sjansen | Linode just apologized to me. |
| 19:17.07 | sjansen | Looks like it was a combination of an old HWADDR= line being activated by the CentOS 5.4 update. |
| 19:21.42 | Zelut | loves his Linode. Not any problems so far. |
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| 20:28.41 | eightyeight | http://instantbillymays.com/ |
| 20:28.48 | brac | [INSTANT BILLY MAYS - BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!] |
| 21:11.10 | sjansen | weeps as he adjust an IE conditional comment |
| 21:23.20 | eightyeight | is that a good weep or a sad weep? |
| 21:23.40 | eightyeight | are we weeping for joy, or for pain? |
| 21:26.07 | sjansen | Pain. |
| 21:26.10 | sjansen | So much pain. |
| 21:26.52 | Sargun | Hm |
| 21:27.04 | Sargun | got a revenue sharing email from youtube |
| 21:48.31 | sjansen | Anyone know an IE developer personally? |
| 21:49.06 | Jayce^ | would providing you the info be considered "aiding and abetting" ? |
| 21:49.36 | goozbach | Jayce^: most likey |
| 21:49.47 | goozbach | you don't need a murder rap |
| 21:49.57 | goozbach | they'll take away your guns |
| 21:50.04 | sjansen | Murder? |
| 21:50.35 | goozbach | battery? |
| 21:50.37 | goozbach | assault |
| 21:50.40 | goozbach | ? |
| 21:50.40 | sjansen | At most assault and battery. Maybe mental anguish. |
| 21:53.35 | tensai | muckduck |
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| 22:37.13 | Zelut | ok. just finished my first two modules with puppet. holy crap. puppet is like magic. |
| 22:38.01 | fungus | "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke |
| 22:38.56 | Zelut | fungus: that quote has crossed my mind a number of times while dealing with this. |
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| 22:40.41 | Zelut | I know a number of you use puppet. Can you offer any opinion on my method of sourcing distro-specific files? currently I'm doing source: => "puppet:///path/to/file.${operatingsystem}" |
| 22:41.56 | jsmith | Zelut: See an example of operating system-specific subclasses at http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/PuppetCommonModules/SSH |
| 22:48.56 | tensai | Zelut: I use the $operatingsystem and $operatingsystemrelease variables in switch statements |
| 22:50.08 | tensai | for example: http://pastebin.com/m5225a349 |
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| 22:55.26 | unum | explosion at HAFB |
| 22:55.33 | unum | near one of the munition caches |
| 22:55.41 | unum | or from one the munition caches I guess |
| 22:55.55 | unum | it took out power to the whole base |
| 22:57.34 | Zelut | that can't be good. |
| 23:03.38 | Zelut | anyone have a good example of ensuring packages are installed where package names differ between distributions? |
| 23:04.10 | JoshH | just use debian only |
| 23:04.15 | JoshH | problem solved |
| 23:04.54 | Zelut | JoshH: I've only just managed to get them to approve Debian at all. It's still mostly RHEL/CentOS |
| 23:06.15 | sjansen | Zelut: one moment |
| 23:07.40 | sjansen | Zelut: Like so? http://pastebin.com/m659a32dd |
| 23:10.05 | JoshH | i hate how rh uses httpd, it's so stupid |
| 23:10.56 | JoshH | and afaik it's the only nix that does that |
| 23:12.01 | sjansen | Supposedly Apache requested it because they were shipping modified binaries. |
| 23:12.10 | JoshH | modified how? |
| 23:12.17 | JoshH | compared to other systems |
| 23:12.57 | Zelut | sjansen: thanks. |
| 23:14.26 | sjansen | Config files in a different location. Patches to add or change behavior. The usual. |
| 23:15.59 | sjansen | I just repeating the explanation I was given many, many years ago. |
| 23:16.30 | JoshH | apparently this guy was quite annoyed by it |
| 23:16.33 | JoshH | http://entitycrisis.blogspot.com/2007/12/centos-1.html |
| 23:17.15 | sjansen | Every distro has it's odd quirk. |
| 23:17.33 | sjansen | RH at least has a tradition of trying to feel familiar to experienced Sys V admins. |
| 23:18.06 | sjansen | Debians policy is "We're not Unix and we're not even going to pretend to be so sit down and shut up". |
| 23:18.24 | sjansen | But at least we can all agree that neither is a crazy as SUSE. |
| 23:18.46 | JoshH | i do really like the default apache config layout on the debians |
| 23:18.56 | sjansen | It's not bad. |
| 23:19.15 | Zelut | sjansen: what does the 'subscribe => Package[apache]]' do? |
| 23:19.19 | JoshH | rh people complain about the init and confusing runlevel issue on it but i like that a lot too |
| 23:20.37 | sjansen | Zelut: http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/MetaparameterReference#subscribe |
| 23:20.45 | JoshH | i haven't used rh much since the days when it used to have dependency issues |
| 23:22.30 | sjansen | Personally, I get annoyed with people who only know one distro and assume that's the only correct way. |
| 23:23.43 | sjansen | That guy looks like yet another example. |
| 23:23.43 | JoshH | but i know i prefer debian's network config, apache config, init script system, package management (i know the rpm format is technically superior but it doesn't generally affect me), and basically everything. also, fedora is a bit more cutting edge than i'd prefer for my own workstation, though i could use it just fine if i wanted to, and rh/cent aren't cutting edge enough since they aren't meant to be, etc |
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| 23:25.11 | JoshH | also, i don't like yum that much, and it seems the 3rd party repos are more confusing, whereas with debian or ubuntu you just need either debian-multimedia or medibuntu |
| 23:25.43 | Zelut | wanders off to some other corner of the intertubes before a debian vs rh-family flame war breaks out. |
| 23:25.47 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned there's only one or two 3rd party repos to care about anymore. |
| 23:26.12 | sjansen | Livna for media. |
| 23:26.28 | sjansen | EPEL |
| 23:26.43 | sjansen | Maybe JPackage. |
| 23:27.01 | sjansen | Haven't needed anything else for many years. |
| 23:27.30 | sjansen | Zelut: JoshH isn't claiming the RH way is broken. Just that he prefers the Debian way. |
| 23:28.11 | JoshH | i almost installed f11 on my computer at home a while ago, but then i stopped short because i wasn't sure if the xorg version it came with worked with a gf4 and legacy nvidia driver, and i was too lazy to check |
| 23:28.22 | sjansen | I'd also call his characterization of Fedora and RHEL/CentOS is fair. |
| 23:28.35 | sjansen | I don't see how this is headed toward a flamewar. |
| 23:29.21 | JoshH | these days i think the debian vs rh issue really only comes down to what style you prefer, the technical pros and cons are pretty minor |
| 23:29.44 | sjansen | I don't know I'd go that far. |
| 23:29.57 | sjansen | Debian still has more packages. RHEL still has a much longer support period. |
| 23:30.13 | sjansen | There are still technical reasons to choose each. |
| 23:32.34 | JoshH | true, but for most general uses it doesn't matter |
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