| 00:00.43 | blendmaster1024 | except that i do know that that's not possible |
| 00:00.54 | blendmaster1024 | try it. what are you going to do? |
| 00:01.11 | blendmaster1024 | in general, that's not possible. |
| 00:01.43 | blendmaster1024 | the system i'm on now does'nt have javaj, and my home system asks me before it runs applets |
| 00:01.58 | Reilithion | Actually, what do I need to figure out where you live for? One good Internet meme and I can be rid of you once and for all. ^_^ |
| 00:02.16 | blendmaster1024 | is confused |
| 00:02.19 | Reilithion | It'd be the new rickroll. |
| 00:02.41 | Reilithion | posts a sign: Now recruiting Internet meme propogators |
| 00:02.52 | blendmaster1024 | oh .... those ... lol |
| 00:02.56 | blendmaster1024 | yeah, right |
| 00:05.56 | Reilithion | So, did you get around to playing with that Megahal perl script? |
| 00:06.03 | blendmaster1024 | no |
| 00:06.14 | blendmaster1024 | i've played with megahal before, remember |
| 00:07.24 | Reilithion | Yeah, I know that. |
| 00:07.33 | Reilithion | But you seemed psyched about the perl script. |
| 00:07.44 | Reilithion | when I mentioned it, anyway. Later you seemed to get... distracted. |
| 00:10.19 | blendmaster1024 | exactly what happened. i get distracted by cool things easily. i'm sure i'll get really exited again later, when i don't have other (slightly) more fun things to do |
| 00:11.05 | Reilithion | Oh? What are you up to? |
| 00:14.14 | blendmaster1024 | i'm actually getting windows drivers for one of those ERGS dell optiplexes right now, my family made me |
| 00:14.36 | blendmaster1024 | they got one too, and they want it to have better than 640x480 res and for it to have ethernet |
| 00:23.03 | sjansen | harleypig: You hoping for the same treatment? |
| 00:35.06 | harleypig | ? |
| 00:35.14 | harleypig | what treatment? |
| 00:35.22 | harleypig | oh |
| 00:35.40 | harleypig | No ... I wanna be blown up with at least 100 pounds of c4 |
| 00:35.56 | harleypig | preferably at mach 2 |
| 00:36.43 | blendmaster1024 | oh lol |
| 00:41.03 | Reilithion | It's my dream to die by nuclear explosion. |
| 00:44.41 | harleypig | I'd rather die during the sex act. |
| 00:44.46 | harleypig | You're welcome :> |
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| 02:37.43 | Reilithion | But the best would be to die in a nuclear explosion that was /caused/ by the sex act. |
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| 04:04.45 | sanchiro | I need to throw together a flyer.. one page, nothing too fancy. what would be the best, easiest application to create a flyer? |
| 04:06.42 | Reilithion | Give a piece of paper and some markers to a 7-year-old |
| 04:07.39 | Reilithion | Wait, you said not too fancy? A 5-year-old will do, then. |
| 04:07.57 | sanchiro | ah... ok.. |
| 04:09.01 | Reilithion | In all seriousness, though, I'd try starting with my favorite document editor. Abiword or Open Office Writer. If you need something fancier than those can deliver, my guess is you shouldn't have specified "nothing too fancy." |
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| 04:09.59 | sanchiro | ok |
| 04:11.56 | Reilithion | Goodnight, all. |
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| 05:29.30 | levi | elg: memcached in erlang, awesome. :) |
| 05:34.05 | Sargun | Erlang is awesome. |
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| 05:37.50 | NETLOGER | hey guys! |
| 05:37.59 | NETLOGER | show me utah!!!!! |
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| 05:42.13 | Sargun | .... |
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| 14:57.10 | goozbach | morning |
| 15:04.10 | tvc123_ | goozbach: yes yes it is |
| 15:05.48 | goozbach | notice I didn't say "good" |
| 15:05.55 | goozbach | because I didn't get up until an hour ago |
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| 15:07.36 | tvc123_ | well could be worse I suppose ... you could have not gone to bed until an hour ago |
| 15:09.14 | goozbach | true |
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| 15:31.41 | Jayce^ | goozbach: what was that screen session toolkit you were telling me about? |
| 15:32.43 | goozbach | byobu |
| 15:33.03 | goozbach | just a sec and I'll point you at the launchpad branch which I've recently patched |
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| 15:33.33 | goozbach | oh yeah you don't need an RPM nevermind |
| 15:35.02 | goozbach | https://code.launchpad.net/byobu |
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| 15:43.20 | goozbach | Jayce^: you may be able to find it in ubuntu's repo |
| 15:43.44 | Jayce^ | yeah, trying to use it on an old centos first (at work), and my mac |
| 15:43.45 | sjansen | More cowbell! |
| 15:44.26 | elg | rain, rain |
| 15:44.27 | elg | stay awhile |
| 15:44.44 | elg | come again anytime |
| 15:45.19 | goozbach | which centos? |
| 15:45.32 | sjansen | Dude, you're in Cali. It's gonna rain. A lot. |
| 15:46.01 | elg | claps his hands in glee |
| 15:46.39 | goozbach | Jayce^: looks like my patch was merged in |
| 15:46.56 | goozbach | so you should be able to rpmbuild -ba the spec file |
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| 16:22.33 | levi | Whee, my Core i5 system should arrive tomorrow. :) |
| 16:23.01 | sjansen | ~steal levi's Core i5 system |
| 16:23.02 | ibot | ACTION grabs levi's Core i5 system and gives it to sjansen |
| 16:23.18 | sjansen | Whee, my Core i5 system should arrive tomorrow! |
| 16:23.40 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:23.46 | levi | You won't get my SSD drive, though. I've already got it. :) |
| 16:27.12 | levi | I got an i5, 4Gb of RAM, a 1GB Radeon HD 4870, and a 32Gb SLC SSD drive. |
| 16:28.08 | sojourner | levi: what was your total cost? |
| 16:28.38 | Migs | http://www.wtfcostumes.com/costumes/cutest_megaman_costume.jpg |
| 16:38.43 | eightyeight | any rhel xen gurus free? |
| 16:38.57 | eightyeight | might be anaconda. might be nfs. hard to say, actually |
| 16:39.06 | goozbach | eightyeight: let me have it |
| 16:39.19 | goozbach | I'm not exactly "Free" but it might be something simple |
| 16:39.27 | goozbach | which vers of RHEL? |
| 16:39.32 | goozbach | and guest os/version? |
| 16:39.44 | eightyeight | i'm doing a kickstart install from an nfs server using virt-manager. para-virt xen. it can find the 5.3 spool on the nfs server, but not the ks |
| 16:40.01 | eightyeight | both are under the same nfs export, and browsable from other hosts on the network |
| 16:40.20 | goozbach | what's the guest's log say about the kickstart? |
| 16:40.25 | goozbach | alt-f2 |
| 16:40.32 | goozbach | or f3 |
| 16:40.48 | eightyeight | failed to mount nfs source |
| 16:40.52 | goozbach | you should see the location of the kickstart anaconda's trying to fetch |
| 16:40.54 | eightyeight | it has in ip from dhcp |
| 16:41.20 | eightyeight | the location is correct. the syntax i'm using is "nfs://10.5.20.164:/netinstall/ks/11.ks" |
| 16:41.27 | goozbach | kickstart is on same nfs share? |
| 16:41.30 | eightyeight | yes |
| 16:41.36 | goozbach | you may want to try kickstart on httpd |
| 16:41.53 | eightyeight | the 5.3 spool is under /netinstall/rhel/5.3/x86_64/ on the same host |
| 16:42.00 | eightyeight | which of course, it's grabbing |
| 16:42.25 | maquis | gave up on ubuntu again.... |
| 16:42.52 | eightyeight | i guess i could try putting the kickstart files on an httpd server, but i see no reason why it can't reach it |
| 16:42.58 | goozbach | well I have always done kickstart fetching via http and then installs via nfs |
| 16:43.10 | goozbach | anaconda fetches a lease twice |
| 16:43.25 | goozbach | once prior to the kickstart, and once again after the kickstart |
| 16:43.40 | goozbach | which may be causing problems |
| 16:44.07 | eightyeight | it's getting the lease prior to fetching it. i can see that in the anaconda log |
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| 16:44.36 | eightyeight | i've thought about checking out tcpdump, but if virt-install is mounting the nfs server to get anaconda to begin with... |
| 16:45.40 | eightyeight | i've tried booting from a boot.iso as well, and passing 'ks=nfs:10.5.20.164:/netinstall/ks/11.ks', and it fails at the same point |
| 16:47.13 | goozbach | hmm |
| 16:47.15 | eightyeight | what bothers me is the lack of being able to change it when it gets to that dialog. i've never been able to successfully tell it to look somewhere else. i've always had to reboot |
| 16:47.24 | goozbach | can you fetch the kickstart manually? |
| 16:47.27 | goozbach | using the same method |
| 16:47.43 | goozbach | mount the dir and cat the kickstart |
| 16:47.47 | eightyeight | yes |
| 16:47.52 | goozbach | hmm |
| 16:49.19 | eightyeight | again, using virt-install, and giving it the nfs path to find the software succeeds. the export is merely /netinstall to the whole network |
| 16:50.19 | goozbach | well I'm stummped then |
| 16:50.21 | goozbach | sorry |
| 16:50.36 | eightyeight | np |
| 16:50.38 | eightyeight | as am i |
| 16:50.43 | eightyeight | this shouldn't be difficult |
| 16:52.23 | goozbach | why aren't you using cobbler :) |
| 16:52.24 | goozbach | ? |
| 16:52.37 | goozbach | and koan |
| 16:56.18 | levi | sojourner: It was $566.14 for the motherboard, cpu, memory, video card, and power supply. Someone gave me the SSD for free, and I'm re-using an old case. |
| 17:00.10 | sojourner | levi: not bad, i've got a couple of systems at home that need upgrading |
| 17:00.48 | Sargun_screen | levi: what SSD? |
| 17:03.12 | eightyeight | goozbach: heh. i should. for sure. satellite 5.3 includes cobbler support too |
| 17:05.22 | Sargun_screen | needs to start checking fingers |
| 17:13.46 | harleypig | http://thewikireader.com/ |
| 17:13.47 | brac | [WikiReader | Home] |
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| 17:16.09 | sjansen | awards WikiReader "Most Crappy Wikipedia Experience Ever" |
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| 17:18.45 | sjansen | http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/46115 |
| 17:19.04 | sjansen | Heh. Love that trailing dot. ;-) |
| 17:30.39 | levi | Sargun_screen: I don't recall what SSD it is off the top of my head. |
| 17:31.35 | levi | sojourner: The video card was $150 or so, the power supply was $30-something, so if you subtract those you get the actual upgrade cost if you already have a decent video card and power supply. It's pretty reasonable, I thought. |
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| 17:38.15 | Sargun_screen | sjansen: :( |
| 17:38.51 | sjansen | Argh. Now we're dealing with our own DNS problem. :-( |
| 17:43.03 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:46.16 | mulicheng | lol |
| 17:48.05 | goozbach | sjansen: has it been a while since the last GL clean&shoot? |
| 17:49.05 | sjansen | I think the last one was this spring. |
| 17:49.22 | sjansen | No, wait... last year. |
| 17:50.07 | Sargun_screen | Did you guys notice .se drop off the internet? |
| 17:50.34 | mulicheng | Pretty big typo. That'd be cool if it happened to .com :) |
| 17:50.38 | mulicheng | Well, for a little while. |
| 17:51.32 | Sargun_screen | uhm |
| 17:51.32 | Sargun_screen | no |
| 17:51.37 | Sargun_screen | it would be kinda anti-cool. |
| 17:51.54 | sjansen | Heinous? |
| 17:51.57 | sjansen | Bogus? |
| 17:52.00 | sjansen | Square? |
| 17:54.44 | stderr | calamitous |
| 18:00.36 | Sargun_screen | ~lart sjansen |
| 18:00.37 | ibot | says "boot to the head" and knocks sjansen over |
| 18:00.38 | maquis | what is .se? |
| 18:00.41 | Sargun_screen | I want some gingerbread |
| 18:00.47 | goozbach | sweden |
| 18:00.51 | Sargun_screen | maquis: Where many beautiful women come from |
| 18:05.01 | Sargun_screen | or goozbach's answer |
| 18:05.27 | Sargun_screen | Man, v6 is so screwed up |
| 18:09.23 | maquis | ... |
| 18:13.06 | Sargun_screen | maquis: Have you been tracking the 174/6939 peering islands issue? |
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| 18:59.24 | sjansen | ~strand Sargun_screen |
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| 20:13.43 | sjansen | http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#46 |
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| 21:21.18 | Reilithion | Next time I get the bright idea to volunteer at Lincoln Elementary School for a whole year, murder me in the face, ok? |
| 21:21.59 | Jayce^ | Reilithion: Lincoln Academy in AF? |
| 21:22.13 | goozbach | ~murder Reilithion |
| 21:22.14 | ibot | ACTION shoots Reilithion in his sleep |
| 21:22.32 | Reilithion | No. Lincoln Elementary School downtown. About 13th south and 3rd east or so. |
| 21:22.37 | Jayce^ | ah, k |
| 21:23.20 | mulicheng | We live close to Lincoln in AF. |
| 21:23.29 | mulicheng | My kids are at a different charter school though. |
| 21:23.39 | mulicheng | Luckily, my wife takes care of all the volunteer hours :) |
| 21:24.39 | Reilithion | The kids who go to the Lincoln I'm volunteering at couldn't afford charter school if their lives depended on it. They use "Lincoln Loots" (the school's motivational tool) to buy food and clothes. |
| 21:24.55 | mulicheng | Charter schools do not cost money. |
| 21:25.01 | Reilithion | Remind me what a charter school is? |
| 21:25.03 | mulicheng | They are public. |
| 21:25.14 | Reilithion | I'm not sure I ever had it explaind |
| 21:25.14 | Jayce^ | public hybrid.. |
| 21:25.41 | mulicheng | More private controlled, but public funded. You usually have a lottery system to get in. |
| 21:25.55 | mulicheng | ~wikipedia charter school |
| 21:26.11 | Reilithion | Guess I mistook it for a private school. |
| 21:26.17 | Jayce^ | http://www.usoe.k12.ut.us/charterschools/faq.htm |
| 21:26.19 | brac | [FAQ - Utah Charter Schools] |
| 21:26.21 | mulicheng | We actually really like it. |
| 21:26.21 | Reilithion | Or "boarding school" sounded familiar. |
| 21:26.36 | mulicheng | I feel like our kids are getting a very good education there. |
| 21:28.59 | Reilithion | I think my brain is mush. Herding kids through the Loots Store is a lot like herding cats. |
| 21:29.04 | Reilithion | Through a fish market. |
| 21:29.07 | Reilithion | At night. |
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| 21:33.09 | unum | a lot of teachers don't like the charter schools because they have lower hiring standards on paper |
| 21:33.47 | unum | but I'm not sure if they have the same tenure requirements either |
| 21:34.08 | unum | public schools can't fire bad teacher after the first three years |
| 21:34.09 | Jayce^ | a lot of teachers dont' like them because they're not Union |
| 21:35.15 | unum | so if you want to work for less money and not have any way to bargin for more, become a teacher at a charter school :) |
| 21:35.31 | Jayce^ | actually, they tend to do better from the ones I know |
| 21:35.47 | unum | actually on the high school level I think the charter school would be nice because you could have part time people who work in the industry |
| 21:35.57 | mulicheng | There are good and bad charters schools, same as there are good and bad public, private, etc schools. |
| 21:36.17 | unum | Jayce^: the people I've known have made less money at the charter schools |
| 21:37.27 | unum | the nice thing about the charter school is how involved all the parents are |
| 21:37.36 | unum | so there really is a drive to provide for the students |
| 21:37.47 | unum | though people have conflicting ideas about what's best |
| 21:38.01 | Migs | that really depends on the cahrter school, unum, re their hiring standards |
| 21:38.16 | Migs | there's conflicting data on whether or not charter schools do better than regular public schools |
| 21:38.25 | unum | Migs: I meant they don't have the same requirements from the state |
| 21:38.36 | Migs | they don't? |
| 21:38.40 | unum | nope |
| 21:38.59 | Migs | I think hiring is mainly up to the district |
| 21:39.14 | Migs | the district sets the policies, just like the charter school would set their own policies |
| 21:39.29 | Migs | i don't know. Just because I work for a school district doesn't mean I know everything about it. I'm not being sarcastic, either. |
| 21:39.37 | maquis | my high school paid teachers less than public schools... and *way* less than some of the teachers could've made elsewhere... |
| 21:39.40 | Migs | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.53 | maquis | (and there was one teacher who kept campaigning for his claim that teachers shouldn't be paid... but he was special) |
| 21:39.58 | Migs | well that IS up to the district |
| 21:40.05 | unum | there are requiremnts about what education you must have to be hired by the public school system |
| 21:40.07 | Migs | there's some pretty wealthy districts in Utah, like Davis |
| 21:40.13 | maquis | 'twas a private school, not charter, though |
| 21:40.14 | unum | I really thought they were set by the state |
| 21:40.18 | Migs | and in other places like Box Elder, administrators make a LOT more than teachers |
| 21:40.38 | unum | maquis: people often teach at the charter schools for less money for the same reason they teach at public schools for less money |
| 21:40.43 | maquis | the nice thing was... they could be selective about the students, and almost all the students actually cared about their grades |
| 21:40.48 | Migs | there was a huge scandal awhile back...a ton of teachers in Box Elder got laid off, while a bunch of administrators got big pay raises |
| 21:40.59 | maquis | unum: true... |
| 21:41.08 | Migs | my daughter goes to an awesome charter school, one I helped found in Ogden |
| 21:41.16 | maquis | i honestly think i had the coolest teachers in the world, though... |
| 21:41.44 | eggyknap | :q |
| 21:41.44 | unum | good teachers take those jobs because they like teaching good students |
| 21:41.48 | eggyknap | EWRONGWINDOW :) |
| 21:41.52 | elg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwvVh0_ZelI |
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| 21:42.08 | maquis | there were some teachers i didn't get along with as well, but for the most part, i really appreciated all my teachers |
| 21:42.16 | maquis | and some of the ones i never actually had as my own teacher |
| 21:42.32 | unum | maquis: you didn't go to the liahona did you? |
| 21:42.40 | maquis | unum: went to school in seattle |
| 21:42.45 | maquis | lakeside school |
| 21:42.49 | unum | cool |
| 21:43.25 | maquis | (which... the teacher claiming that teachers shouldn't be paid was one of the physics / math teachers... he was the main guy behind the initial version of excel) |
| 21:43.50 | Migs | there's another charter school ... can't remember the name ... where the principal decided to give the teacher big paychecks, even approaching six figures, and have the administrators (including himself) make less than the teachers |
| 21:43.53 | Migs | I thought that was awesome |
| 21:43.55 | maquis | (apparently the guy has piles and piles of money and still gets money from excel... so he thinks teaching should be an unpaid position) |
| 21:44.02 | maquis | Migs: that's cool |
| 21:44.05 | unum | I knew someone who was working for a charter school in cache valley as a 2nd grade teach |
| 21:44.21 | unum | she had a degree to teach home ec |
| 21:44.30 | unum | but none of the districts would hire her |
| 21:44.37 | Migs | http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:5YCWp4QRPf0J:www.nctq.org/nctq/research/1206996448290.pdf+charter+school+principal+less+salary+than+teachers&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNEciSoUGbl02C3b0PHW8ewRPBOUmw |
| 21:44.38 | unum | so she ended up there |
| 21:44.40 | Migs | there's a document about it |
| 21:44.50 | maquis | unum: good teacher? |
| 21:45.02 | unum | maquis: no idea |
| 21:45.12 | unum | she was a nice person |
| 21:45.17 | Migs | lol, guess I should've just linked here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/nyregion/07charter.html |
| 21:45.18 | unum | patient |
| 21:45.21 | brac | [At Charter School, Higher Teacher Pay - NYTimes.com] |
| 21:45.44 | Migs | man, $125,000 a year for a teaching position? |
| 21:45.51 | unum | in new york city |
| 21:45.57 | unum | not really a good deal imnsho |
| 21:46.10 | Migs | well, true |
| 21:46.15 | Migs | nah, that's still awesome |
| 21:46.22 | Migs | I wouldn't want to teach in NYC though |
| 21:46.23 | unum | now $125k in box elder, that would be something |
| 21:46.31 | maquis | i had a teacher who was teaching US History... he taught a few other classes (things like global village and stuff)... he was a wonderful teacher, and would sit around some days and tell us stories about hitchhiking from france to st petersburg during the cold war, and living as a member of a massai tribe in kenya for 7 years... |
| 21:46.33 | unum | I know someone who taught there |
| 21:46.37 | unum | she hated it |
| 21:46.45 | unum | quite her job with out even finding a new one |
| 21:46.45 | Migs | "and swoon; $125,000 is nearly twice as much as the average New York City public school teacher earns, and about two and a half times as much as the national average for teacher salaries. They also will be eligible for bonuses, based on schoolwide performance, of up to $25,000 in the second year." |
| 21:47.04 | maquis | the side-tracks kept us interested in everything, and some of them he was able to apply to what we were studying :) |
| 21:47.09 | Migs | I like that bonus idea. There's an education reformer appointed by the Washington D.C. mayor, named Michelle Rhee, who's been trying to implement that into the city's school system |
| 21:47.13 | unum | so I guess that would be like making $60k here at a charter school |
| 21:47.24 | maquis | (they were more applicable in his other classes, but i never got to take the other classes from him) |
| 21:48.02 | Migs | for a starting salary, that's awesome |
| 21:48.28 | Migs | "Teachers will not have the same retirement benefits as members of the citys teachers union. And they can be fired at will. " |
| 21:48.35 | Migs | frankly, that's how it should be |
| 21:48.42 | Migs | unions have gotten out of control |
| 21:48.58 | maquis | won't be able to afford private schools for my kids, but i'm hoping that i can at least supplement the public school education as much as possible at home... |
| 21:49.01 | Migs | I'm all for reduced retirement benefits in exchange for higher pay |
| 21:49.29 | maquis | i'm all for teachers getting paid more in exchange for being fireable if they suck |
| 21:49.42 | Migs | no kidding |
| 21:49.57 | Migs | I don't even want to tell you about some of the teachers I know that SHOULD be fired but CAN'T be |
| 21:50.07 | maquis | ick |
| 21:50.11 | Migs | it's ridiculously horrifying |
| 21:50.34 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=ccjoe@69.20.152.109) |
| 21:50.54 | stderr | My parents managed to get one of my elementary teachers fired, but it took like 2 years. |
| 21:50.58 | Migs | wow |
| 21:51.02 | maquis | i've heard lots of stories... thankfully only ever had one teacher that i thought should've been fired |
| 21:51.02 | Migs | what did the teacher do? |
| 21:51.20 | stderr | played Rush Limbaugh every day while we did our math homework |
| 21:51.26 | stderr | then his wife stole money from the PTA |
| 21:51.27 | Migs | hahahahaha |
| 21:51.30 | stderr | like, 10k over 2 years |
| 21:51.31 | _carmony | ROFL |
| 21:51.32 | Migs | lovely |
| 21:51.35 | maquis | stderr: lol |
| 21:51.39 | stderr | my parents went on the warpath. |
| 21:51.51 | Migs | that's nothing compared to Weber District's scandal a couple years ago...millions embezzled from the Foundation |
| 21:51.58 | Migs | THAT was bad |
| 21:52.01 | stderr | millions?! wow |
| 21:52.06 | stderr | that's ridiculous. |
| 21:52.07 | Migs | who the heck needs millions of dollars anyway? |
| 21:52.24 | mulicheng | could find a way to use it :) |
| 21:52.31 | Migs | well sure, but who NEEDS it? |
| 21:52.33 | Migs | everyone WANTS it |
| 21:53.05 | maquis | honestly, i'd just love to get enough to pay off my house... |
| 21:53.23 | Migs | yeah, same here |
| 21:53.28 | mulicheng | pay off house, have enough to retire comfortably, good enough for me. |
| 21:53.36 | Migs | I would love that |
| 21:53.43 | Migs | I don't have a lot of debts as it is, so it's nice |
| 21:53.55 | maquis | after paying off house, then put the extra money into a nice retirement fund... |
| 21:54.02 | Migs | I wish I'd have enough of a down-payment to get a 15-year mortgage, but when we bought our home, I wasn't that smart |
| 21:54.03 | mulicheng | just pay extra on your mortgage every month. |
| 21:54.09 | Migs | yeah, I try to |
| 21:54.13 | Migs | it's just a good idea regardless |
| 21:54.25 | Jayce^ | Migs: even if you didnt' start with a 15, just pay it like it is one |
| 21:54.27 | Jayce^ | we did that |
| 21:54.29 | Migs | my dad paid off his 30-year mortgage in 20 years by doing that |
| 21:54.29 | maquis | Migs: yeah... not having tons of debts is nice... |
| 21:55.02 | Jayce^ | is looking at 9 years from start to finish... soooo close |
| 21:55.06 | Migs | I do try to pay a little extra...my wife would rather use the money to go shopping, though |
| 21:55.22 | Migs | buy more of life's little luxuries |
| 21:55.27 | mulicheng | Give her the Dave Ramsey book |
| 21:55.40 | maquis | i saw this one girl on some tv program who was 19 and had > 100K in credit card debt... |
| 21:55.43 | Migs | I'm not trying to change her |
| 21:55.54 | stderr | maquis: wow |
| 21:55.54 | Migs | wow, how the heck does that happen, maquis? |
| 21:56.01 | maquis | Migs: shopping, i'm guessing |
| 21:56.03 | Migs | what parents would allow that? |
| 21:56.11 | maquis | Migs: no idea... |
| 21:56.11 | stderr | bad ones. |
| 21:56.11 | _carmony | 11 million dollars was the weber school foundation |
| 21:56.13 | Migs | she HAD to have started before she was 18 |
| 21:56.16 | _carmony | my wife is an auditor |
| 21:56.18 | Migs | yeah, 11 million |
| 21:56.33 | stderr | 11 million dollars from a school foundation? |
| 21:56.33 | _carmony | that is a horror story in the local accounting world |
| 21:56.36 | Migs | so ridiculous |
| 21:56.57 | _carmony | yup |
| 21:56.57 | _carmony | over 10 years |
| 21:56.57 | maquis | my parents explained to me how interest worked when i was little... |
| 21:56.57 | stderr | that's one expensive ticket to hell. |
| 21:56.57 | _carmony | all in fake company invoices |
| 21:56.59 | maquis | but i can't even imagine being so far in-debt... |
| 21:57.04 | Migs | just thinking of all the ways that money could've been used REALLY pisses me off |
| 21:57.08 | Jayce^ | mulicheng++ |
| 21:57.16 | Jayce^ | for ramsey |
| 21:57.24 | Migs | my in-laws have over 100k in credit card debt |
| 21:57.32 | Migs | probably around 200k in fact |
| 21:57.33 | mulicheng | I give that book to my relatives for birthdays :) |
| 21:57.41 | maquis | i mean... i don't see how you could get out of that... with the types of interest the credit card company charges... and at 19, she wasn't in school, and didn't have any real source of income |
| 21:57.43 | Migs | but that's over years of awful money habits |
| 21:58.06 | Migs | those credit card companies are stupid for letting her have that much. They should KNOW she can't pay it back. |
| 21:58.14 | Migs | all she's going to do is file bankruptcy |
| 21:58.21 | maquis | too many credit card companies try to market cards to the 17-18 year olds with the idea of "free money" |
| 21:58.27 | Migs | yeah |
| 21:58.51 | macnewbold | fwiw, I like charter schools a lot. 3 of our kids go to one. they get to do full spanish language immersion, all day long, which they wouldn't get in a public school. |
| 21:59.00 | maquis | and then they send you those idiotic little checks in with your bill without really explaining how they work... |
| 21:59.31 | maquis | macnewbold: that's interesting... |
| 21:59.50 | Migs | I got full Spanish language immersion too. I went to a ghetto school as a kid. |
| 21:59.56 | Migs | slaps himself |
| 22:00.02 | maquis | Migs: lol... |
| 22:00.07 | mulicheng | My kids get to learn some French and also to play the Violin at a charter school. |
| 22:00.26 | Migs | yeah, my daughter's charter school has a vibrant music program |
| 22:00.31 | Migs | every kid has to learn an instrument |
| 22:00.43 | maquis | Migs: nice |
| 22:00.50 | maquis | so, does utah just have tons of charter schools? |
| 22:00.56 | maquis | i don't know of any up here in seattle... |
| 22:01.41 | Migs | Utah has 100-something of them |
| 22:01.52 | maquis | reasonable number of private schools here, a couple magnet schools (public, but focused and pulling from multiple districts), and everything else i know about is normal public schools... |
| 22:01.56 | maquis | Migs: that's nice |
| 22:02.07 | Migs | the best rated charter school in Utah is Ogden Preparatory Academy |
| 22:02.17 | maquis | i wish we had more options that weren't as high cost as the private schools round here |
| 22:02.19 | macnewbold | they do "ratings" for them? who does the ratings? |
| 22:02.25 | Migs | I'll find the link |
| 22:02.36 | stderr | maquis: Washington hasn't enacted charter school legislation. |
| 22:02.39 | macnewbold | maquis: it's been awesome here. I think it is going to put a lot of pressure on the public schools to perform |
| 22:02.51 | Migs | http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705313248/Ogden-prep-academy-is-honored-as-best-in-09.html |
| 22:02.52 | brac | [Deseret News | Ogden prep academy is honored as best in '09] |
| 22:02.56 | Migs | Utah Assocation of Public Charter Schools |
| 22:03.01 | macnewbold | losing students leads to losing funding, and the funding will go to the schools where the students and their parents want to be |
| 22:03.10 | Migs | they basically measured test scores and stuff |
| 22:03.12 | macnewbold | cool, i'll have to check that out. never heard of uapcs before |
| 22:03.17 | maquis | as much as we'd love to, we just can't afford the good private schools round here... |
| 22:03.19 | Migs | me neither, until I read that article |
| 22:03.47 | Migs | I'll check it again tonight |
| 22:03.48 | macnewbold | cool, they do spanish dual immersion too |
| 22:03.48 | maquis | are there additional costs to families for charter schools or are they subsidized by the government, or what? |
| 22:03.57 | Migs | no additional costs |
| 22:04.01 | maquis | Migs: wow |
| 22:04.02 | Migs | they're public schools |
| 22:04.03 | macnewbold | maquis: the only additional cost for me is that I have to drive them there, instead of getting a school bus |
| 22:04.15 | Migs | yeah...no school buses, that's the downside |
| 22:04.16 | Jayce^ | beyond things like uniforms |
| 22:04.20 | Migs | although my daughter's school is on the way to work |
| 22:04.29 | macnewbold | school lunch used to cost more but they have their own kitchen now so it's reasonable |
| 22:04.36 | Migs | okay well yeah...all the school-specific stuff, like uniforms, transportation, extra field trips, etc. |
| 22:04.39 | maquis | my mom used to drive me 20 miles to school every day, so... |
| 22:04.41 | Jayce^ | Migs: having grown up riding buses, I'm going to try hard to keep my kids from them :) |
| 22:04.44 | macnewbold | Jayce^: they have uniforms at quite a few public schools now too |
| 22:04.54 | Migs | but as for actual fees or tuition or anything like that, it's the same as any public school |
| 22:05.42 | maquis | tuition for my high school here cost more per year than for byu... |
| 22:05.50 | Migs | my daughter's school does a TON of field trips (they call them "expeditions") |
| 22:05.52 | maquis | and we had to buy our books in high school too |
| 22:06.29 | Migs | the school's philosophy is that they need to EXPERIENCE what they learn, and do lots of hands-on activities, so they spend a lot of time on these expeditions, like doing community work, backpacking, etc. |
| 22:06.46 | maquis | hopes they have charter schools in washington by the time that her little girl is old enough for school |
| 22:06.56 | macnewbold | maquis: you might like this: http://www.utahcharters.org/map.php |
| 22:07.18 | Migs | nice find, macnewbold |
| 22:07.23 | maquis | nice |
| 22:07.43 | maquis | so, it sounds like most people are finding the quality to be higher at the charter schools? |
| 22:07.53 | maquis | has anybody heard of the opposite experience? |
| 22:07.53 | Migs | that's the general public image |
| 22:08.10 | Migs | there's mixed results from various studies |
| 22:08.32 | Jayce^ | maquis: the Rockwell HS is seriously failing |
| 22:08.35 | Migs | like Stanford recently released a report called "Multiple Choice: Charter School Performance in 16 States" in which they showed that charter schools are doing WORSE than their public counterparts |
| 22:08.46 | Jayce^ | a good example of what a bad leadership can do to a good school |
| 22:08.58 | Migs | here's a quote: "charter students are not faring as well as their traditional public school counterparts. Further, tremendous variation in academic quality among charters is the norm, not the exception." |
| 22:08.59 | maquis | Migs: that's interesting... what'd they base the research on? |
| 22:09.19 | Migs | but then later, another Stanford study kind of showed the opposite, so I don't know |
| 22:09.25 | Migs | I'll have to find the report...I just have that quote |
| 22:09.31 | maquis | i'd be interested in seeing how students at charter schools do in national standardized tests... |
| 22:10.55 | macnewbold | generally they do as well or better than the public schools in their area |
| 22:11.03 | Migs | I think it's probably about the same |
| 22:11.06 | macnewbold | (given similar demographics in their students, at least) |
| 22:11.07 | maquis | i guess a lot of that'll have to wait til they've been going for a while |
| 22:11.22 | Migs | charter schools are more or less just for giving an alternate educational experience to your student, |
| 22:11.25 | Migs | that's how I see it at least |
| 22:11.32 | maquis | hmmm |
| 22:11.41 | Reilithion | National standardized tests aren't all they're cracked up to be. |
| 22:11.53 | neybar | I've been very happy with charter schools. I love the one my kids go to. |
| 22:11.58 | Migs | and the ability to be more actively involved...there seems to be a LOT more volunteer opportunities in my daughter's charter school than there were at her public elementary school |
| 22:12.01 | Reilithion | They're not a good metric for actual learning. |
| 22:12.13 | Migs | and no they're not, Reilithion. I never believed they were. |
| 22:12.26 | maquis | Reilithion: no, but i think they do show something, if they are well-done |
| 22:12.39 | Reilithion | It's sad that so many people rely so heavily on them. |
| 22:12.51 | maquis | i mean... i think the SAT gives a pretty good view of whether students have learned a lot of basic things |
| 22:13.05 | maquis | the PSAT, too |
| 22:13.40 | neybar | I think testing shows whether an individual excels at tests, not at knowlege gained. |
| 22:13.48 | Migs | I would love to start my own charter school |
| 22:13.50 | Reilithion | neybar++ |
| 22:13.56 | maquis | neybar: to some degree, yes... |
| 22:14.15 | Migs | that's, like, my dream that once I actually got to that point I wouldn't want to do it |
| 22:14.24 | maquis | i don't know how to get a better view of it, though |
| 22:14.42 | Reilithion | Testing has its uses. I just wish people would use testing for what it really measures and not pretend the tests are omniscient. |
| 22:14.55 | maquis | Reilithion: sure... |
| 22:15.37 | maquis | i'd say that if a school has a very high population of students who can get > 1500 on the SAT, that says *something* about the school... |
| 22:15.44 | Reilithion | </rant> |
| 22:15.45 | maquis | granted, you have to make sure they're not teaching directly to the test |
| 22:16.04 | maquis | if you combine lots of national tests, you've got to be getting *some* sort of useful information |
| 22:16.14 | maquis | (ie, PSAT, SAT, and AP exams or something like that) |
| 22:16.40 | Reilithion | <retort> Yeah. It says that the school is in the rich part of town! |
| 22:17.15 | maquis | Reilithion: why does better scores *have* to mean "the rich part of town"? |
| 22:17.30 | maquis | what is it about "the rich part of town" that causes the scores to go up? |
| 22:17.43 | maquis | i think that's some of what needs to be asked... |
| 22:18.01 | maquis | is it because the parents are involved in their students' education? |
| 22:18.06 | maquis | is it because the schools are better funded? |
| 22:18.12 | Reilithion | oi |
| 22:18.19 | maquis | is it because the parents are expecting the students to go to college? |
| 22:18.29 | maquis | and in the less rich parts of town, those things aren't happening? |
| 22:18.30 | neybar | maquis: only a guess, but I would say the parents in general are more involved in the education process. That isn't to say of course that parents at any income level can either ignore or spend adiquate time with their children. |
| 22:18.34 | Reilithion | maquis: Which of your many questions should I tackle first. |
| 22:18.50 | Reilithion | neybar has it right. Rich kids have more support from their parents |
| 22:18.57 | Reilithion | Monetarily and in their time. |
| 22:19.03 | Migs | http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/study-finds-that-online-education-beats-the-classroom/ |
| 22:19.05 | maquis | Reilithion: i'm saying these are the questions that *should* be asked, and we should see what we can do about trying to fix what we can in that... |
| 22:19.18 | Migs | found this article rather interesting |
| 22:19.30 | maquis | Reilithion: i don't think that monetary support is necessarily helpful for students... but i think that time support *is* important |
| 22:19.32 | Migs | "Over the 12-year span, the report found 99 studies in which there were quantitative comparisons of online and classroom performance for the same courses. The analysis for the Department of Education found that, on average, students doing some or all of the course online would |
| 22:19.32 | Migs | 2 |
| 22:19.32 | Migs | rank in the 59th percentile in tested performance, compared with the average classroom student scoring in the 50th percentile. That is a modest but statistically meaningful difference. |
| 22:19.37 | maquis | and the parents having expectations |
| 22:19.38 | Migs | oops |
| 22:20.10 | maquis | the question is how we can try to get some of that support to students in less-rich areas... |
| 22:20.10 | Reilithion | maquis: Mainly I object to the thinking that presumably led to your earlier assertion about higher test scores meaning something about a school. |
| 22:20.49 | maquis | Reilithion: i admit to not knowing everything perfectly... i'm just going off of what my experience is |
| 22:21.27 | stderr | maquis: monetary support is obviously helpful. Ignoring the obvious argument of social expectations and avoidance of anxiety, you have to look at nutrition, living conditions, etc. Money plays a large part of that. |
| 22:21.30 | Reilithion | We can't meaningfully and usefully compare test scores from one demographic to another. There are simply too many variables. Even statisticians can't do a proper job of it because not all of the variables can even be measured. |
| 22:21.53 | Reilithion | Test scores should primarily be used to see if a student is making progress /against their old scores/. To see if that student is learning.. |
| 22:21.59 | maquis | stderr: that is true... but i think parents time involvement is even more important than whether the students have the stylish clothes |
| 22:22.20 | maquis | Reilithion: fine... that sounds reasonable to me.. |
| 22:22.20 | elg | that's nonsense. stylish clothes are the only thing that matters |
| 22:22.21 | stderr | "poverty" doesn't mean you're missing the stylish clothes, I can assure you. |
| 22:22.28 | maquis | but i don't think you can ignore tests completely |
| 22:22.37 | elg | i don't know where i'd be without my jam pants. |
| 22:23.41 | stderr | elg: in a work release program from prison! |
| 22:23.54 | Reilithion | maquis: As I've mentioned. I'm not saying we should stop testings students. I'm saying we should use tests for what they're useful for. Sometimes it seems to me like people are obsessed with raising test scores in a completely useless way. |
| 22:24.01 | Reilithion | No Child Left Behind. 'nuff said. |
| 22:24.16 | maquis | Reilithion: sure |
| 22:24.22 | elg | hammer pants |
| 22:24.23 | maquis | the wa state test sucks like that too |
| 22:24.32 | elg | http://crossroadstrading.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/mc-hammer.jpg |
| 22:24.35 | maquis | and i hate seeing schools teach to tests |
| 22:25.01 | Reilithion | maquis: We're in agreement on that one. *raises glass* |
| 22:25.11 | maquis | i just don't see how you can look at the quality of a school while ignoring tests completely |
| 22:25.52 | Reilithion | maquis: Okay, let me ask you this: Why do we want to know the quality of a school? |
| 22:26.01 | maquis | and i think there's something to be said for the fact that i'd prefer to have my children in a school where 1) i can see that the schools aren't just teaching to the tests, and 2) the average test scores are higher |
| 22:26.08 | elg | stderr: you know that can't be true. I think I totally would have been killed in a gang war or suicide goth-style without my jam pants. |
| 22:26.32 | maquis | Reilithion: my interest in it is to determine whether it's a school where I would want my children to attend |
| 22:26.40 | stderr | elg: I hear ya, I hear ya. Same could be said for my pogs. |
| 22:26.44 | stderr | >_> |
| 22:26.46 | stderr | <_< |
| 22:28.21 | Reilithion | maquis: I don't think you can honestly look at test scores and see that at all. I've been to schools where the test scores are awful, but the teachers and curriculum are near immaculate. And I've been to schools where the test scores were beautiful, but the teachers were lazy and incompetent and the administration negligent and constricting. |
| 22:28.30 | maquis | Reilithion: perhaps we're looking at it in different ways... it seems you're looking at the quality in a very broad sense -- is this school working for the students who attend it... i'm looking at it in terms of "which school would i want my children to go to" |
| 22:29.00 | Reilithion | maquis: A distinct possibility regarding our communication. |
| 22:29.15 | maquis | Reilithion: perhaps i just have different experiences from you. the schools i've seen where the test scores were higher were schools where the teachers and quality of curriculum were very high |
| 22:29.47 | Reilithion | maquis: Have you ever visited a school with a large immigrant or refugee population? |
| 22:30.02 | maquis | granted, all the schools i've looked at in terms of that were in areas where there was extremely low poverty levels... so, a lot of the considerations you're referring to weren't applicable |
| 22:30.13 | *** join/#utah badon (n=q@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) |
| 22:30.28 | maquis | Reilithion: no... but like i said, i'm looking at it in terms of "which school would i want to send my children to?"... |
| 22:31.00 | maquis | my way of looking at it isn't as much on fairly comparing across all possible demographics |
| 22:31.35 | Reilithion | hmm. |
| 22:31.59 | maquis | it's more of "given all the available schools, which one would provide the best education for this child?" |
| 22:32.38 | Reilithion | Well, in that case, I still think you're putting too much emphasis on test scores. |
| 22:32.40 | maquis | not "how do i know whether a school is doing well for the kids in its specific demographic?" |
| 22:32.50 | maquis | Reilithion: what would you recommend using instead? |
| 22:35.08 | maquis | Reilithion: i've seen people use "what colleges did the students go to?" as a comparison... and others use "what jobs did students eventually get?" |
| 22:35.51 | stderr | I'd advocate for a more personal approach. Interview teachers and administrators, perhaps find families whose children attend and ask them what they think |
| 22:36.08 | maquis | honestly, my college counselor in high school tried to persuade me to go to a different school instead of BYU because it didn't look as good on their stats |
| 22:36.21 | Reilithion | You know, I don't really have a good replacement for a primary criterion. But I would like to point something out from my own experience. |
| 22:36.58 | maquis | it was considered a "lower" quality university than what was "expected" or "normal" for the high school... so he thought i should go to one of the other schools i'd gotten into |
| 22:37.13 | maquis | stderr: certainly, but i can't interview teachers for every school in the area |
| 22:37.58 | stderr | http://www.greatschools.net/ could be interesting |
| 22:38.27 | Reilithion | People seem to sometimes overlook the fact that school isn't just a place to learn math and history. It's also the nursery of our social skills. If a child is ostracized from their peers, it won't matter much whether they get straight A's; they'll end up with emotional problems or a social disease. So while I don't have a good enough analysis to recommend a new primary criterion for you, maquis, I'd like to remind you to make sure your |
| 22:40.03 | stderr | hmm, who is Reilithion, anyway? Seems like someone I'd have noticed round these parts. |
| 22:40.39 | maquis | Reilithion: that is a good point |
| 22:40.39 | Reilithion | I was a bearded volunteer at UTOSC... |
| 22:40.51 | maquis | Reilithion: that's actually one of the reasons i *don't* want to home-school |
| 22:40.59 | stderr | didn't make an appearance this year, unfortunately. |
| 22:41.19 | elg | are you calling my jam pants a social disease? |
| 22:41.22 | Reilithion | maquis: Cheers |
| 22:41.26 | maquis | Reilithion: and it is something to pay attention to... |
| 22:41.53 | stderr | anyway, nice to meetcha, you seem to be a pretty smart fella |
| 22:41.53 | Reilithion | elg: Nothing gets by you, does it? ;-) |
| 22:42.02 | Reilithion | stderr: Thanks. |
| 22:42.07 | elg | not when it comes to my jam pants |
| 22:42.07 | stderr | elg: does that mean if I stand close to you I'll contract my own case of jam pants too? |
| 22:42.11 | stderr | shuffles closer to elg |
| 22:42.31 | stderr | puts his arm slowly around elg |
| 22:42.35 | maquis | i know there were some students at my high school who regretted the fact that they went through school without really spending much time with social events because 4+ hours of homework per night wasn't unusual... but as far as academics, i don't think it can be beat, and if the student is enjoying it, it's worthwhile |
| 22:42.35 | stderr | Nice pants. |
| 22:42.38 | Reilithion | O_O |
| 22:42.40 | mulicheng | ~steal elg's jam pants |
| 22:42.41 | ibot | ACTION grabs elg's jam pants and gives it to mulicheng |
| 22:42.48 | stderr | WHOA! |
| 22:42.50 | stderr | uh... |
| 22:42.54 | stderr | sidles away from elg |
| 22:43.04 | maquis | stderr: btw, that website is very interesting |
| 22:43.08 | elg | looks dejectedly at the floor |
| 22:43.20 | stderr | maquis: yea, looks cool, hope it helps. |
| 22:43.37 | elg | seriously though I was homeschooled and seem to have turned out alright |
| 22:43.56 | maquis | stderr: lots of good info about my school... the parent / student reviews idea is good |
| 22:44.02 | elg | the friends I have that I still have are not the ones I knew in school before we started home schooling |
| 22:44.11 | harleypig | elg: self-rating doesn't cont |
| 22:44.14 | harleypig | err ... count |
| 22:44.22 | elg | the good social memories from before home schooling were outside of the school sphere |
| 22:44.25 | maquis | elg: that's good... i have one or two friends who were homeschooled who came out normal... and a lot who didn't |
| 22:44.33 | elg | it's a biased sample |
| 22:44.42 | elg | a lot of people homeschool precisely because they're not normal |
| 22:44.52 | elg | is it any surprise they came out the other end still not normal? |
| 22:44.55 | maquis | elg: that's true... |
| 22:45.24 | maquis | i don't think my hubby and i could do a good job of homeschooling... we're both geeks, and we're both a bit on the introverted side |
| 22:45.42 | elg | academically it's hard to beat if done properly. and it's not rocket science to do properly, any more than any parenting is anyway. |
| 22:46.05 | elg | and it works no matter where you live, as long as you've got the internet and a library |
| 22:46.16 | Reilithion | I wonder how much of introversion is genetic. |
| 22:46.29 | maquis | academically, i wouldn't be too worried... socially, though... i'd be concerned that i'd mess things up... |
| 22:46.54 | elg | you need to find social outlets. the church makes that very easy. unless your ward sucks. so do sports, chess club, drama club, music, whatever clubby thing you enroll your kids in |
| 22:46.56 | harleypig | society is over-rated. |
| 22:47.12 | elg | all those extracurriculars that take up every last minute of kids after-school hours |
| 22:47.15 | Reilithion | maquis: Another thing to try to avoid if possible: Frequent changes from one school to another. That's one of the things that messed me up. |
| 22:47.25 | stderr | hmmm, good point. |
| 22:47.28 | maquis | Reilithion: yeah... that's a good one |
| 22:47.32 | *** join/#utah justincarmony (n=justinca@174-23-201-217.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:47.36 | stderr | The LDS church is probably the primary reason why home schooling is so successful in Utah. |
| 22:47.50 | elg | so you spend less time on stupid school stuff, more time learning, just as much time extracurricularing, and have more play time (which I think is important for balanced development) |
| 22:48.23 | elg | my play time was mostly learning computer stuff. prepped me for my career and social life both, a lot more than any high school curriculum could have |
| 22:48.44 | maquis | my hope is to do something somewhere in between public (or hopefully charter) schooling and home-schooling... public schooling + involved parenting and lots of time helping our kids understand how the things they learn in school (and at home) apply to life and what's interesting to them |
| 22:49.00 | maquis | elg: yeah... |
| 22:49.15 | Reilithion | maquis: Did I meet you at UOSC? |
| 22:49.15 | maquis | most of my play time when i was little was spent reading tons and tons of stuff about whatever topic interested me at the time |
| 22:49.28 | maquis | Reilithion: nope... didn't make it to utah for it |
| 22:49.29 | elg | yup |
| 22:49.33 | elg | it's great being a kid |
| 22:49.40 | elg | if your parents don't steal it away from you. :) |
| 22:49.48 | maquis | Reilithion: first baby's due in just over a month, so i'm not supposed to travel too much... |
| 22:49.53 | Reilithion | ah |
| 22:49.57 | maquis | elg: yeah |
| 22:50.00 | Reilithion | Congratulations. |
| 22:50.02 | mulicheng | It's great having some kids so I can still be a kid! |
| 22:50.15 | elg | for some who don't hang out here, playtime might be sports or hanging out with friends |
| 22:50.26 | maquis | my mom thought i was crazy a few times... she *really* didn't like the 2 years that my major interests included snakes, frogs, lizards and insects |
| 22:50.30 | maquis | :P |
| 22:50.31 | elg | and that's ok too - no doubt played an important role in forming who they are and what makes them successful |
| 22:50.34 | maquis | Reilithion: thanks |
| 22:50.45 | maquis | elg: yeah... that's good too |
| 22:51.04 | maquis | i wish i'd gotten interested in sports |
| 22:51.24 | Reilithion | I'm glad I didn't! |
| 22:51.28 | elg | i'm glad I washed out of sports with a well-timed car accident |
| 22:51.43 | elg | I was never very good at basketball, even being as tall as I was. |
| 22:52.02 | maquis | unfortunately, the sports i would've enjoyed most had all the games on sundays when i was little |
| 22:52.03 | elg | more individual "sports" might have been fun. more skiing or surfing or things like that |
| 22:52.17 | elg | if I had enough money to ski that much, or lived near a beach... |
| 22:52.51 | maquis | in high school i was able to play lacrosse, which i enjoyed... and in 8th grade, played a bit of soccer... i enjoyed soccer, but starting in 8th grade, i was so far behind everyone else, and had no coordination |
| 22:53.09 | maquis | so, i gave up on it |
| 22:53.31 | maquis | and then i ditched lacrosse for debate, because then i didn't need to run anymore, and i enjoyed it more |
| 22:54.07 | stderr | I probably learned more from high school sports than I learned from the academic program we had |
| 22:54.18 | Reilithion | lol |
| 22:54.24 | Reilithion | Including physics class |
| 22:55.05 | mulicheng | Everything I needed to know for my current career, I taught myself during my basic and pascal programming class in 10th grade :) |
| 22:55.28 | Reilithion | mulicheng: What exactly is your current career? |
| 22:55.29 | stderr | Seriously. I was a straight A student, scored 1460 on my SAT, so it wasn't like I was ignoring the academic side. But the teamwork mechanics and ability to quickly deduce strategy I learned in football has served me more than the busy work teachers gave me. |
| 22:55.43 | mulicheng | Software Engineer |
| 22:56.08 | Reilithion | Pascal class? Classy. |
| 22:56.20 | Reilithion | I could break out the PL/1 poem again... |
| 22:56.27 | stderr | we had no computer classes whatsoever at my high school |
| 22:56.34 | stderr | except for basic typing in 9th grade. |
| 22:57.42 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=ccjoe@69.20.152.109) |
| 22:58.08 | stderr | although I did get an independent study my junior year where I had a semester to develop a software application, but no formal "teaching" during that period either - my counselor was the head of the math department who had little knowledge in software engineering. |
| 22:58.57 | maquis | stderr: you didn't develop the new class scheduling app for your school with the "feature" of putting you in the girls' gym class? :P |
| 22:59.19 | stderr | haha, I wish. |
| 22:59.35 | stderr | It was a library management app |
| 22:59.43 | maquis | that's apparently what Bill Gates did in high school |
| 22:59.48 | stderr | basically a free tool for the library department :P |
| 23:00.00 | maquis | he and Paul Allen ended up in the girls' gym classes |
| 23:00.18 | Reilithion | nice |
| 23:00.27 | maquis | yeah |
| 23:00.32 | maquis | it didn't help much |
| 23:00.37 | stderr | haha, probably not |
| 23:00.49 | maquis | if you've ever seen pics of what they looked like while in high school.... |
| 23:01.00 | stderr | yea, wearing those BCGs... |
| 23:01.03 | Reilithion | lol, I don't need to. I have an imagination. |
| 23:01.33 | maquis | (they went to my school, so we heard all types of stories, some from teachers who'd been students at the same time as them, and some from teachers who had taught them) |
| 23:01.43 | *** join/#utah d33d (n=d33d@70.90.213.14) |
| 23:01.47 | Reilithion | wow |
| 23:02.00 | stderr | ahhh, production deployment done, time for me to leave. ciao people. |
| 23:02.05 | Reilithion | And, I've reverted to monosyllables. I must be sleepy |
| 23:02.17 | Reilithion | l8rs, stderr ; |
| 23:02.25 | maquis | later stderr |
| 23:02.33 | maquis | wants to leave, but should probably do something productive first |
| 23:02.45 | Reilithion | Productive? What fun is that? |
| 23:02.55 | Reilithion | You could totally be gaming right now! |
| 23:03.13 | Reilithion | Or jamming out to Daft Punk |
| 23:03.35 | Reilithion | Or both! |
| 23:04.02 | maquis | heh |
| 23:06.16 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (i=cd7c91fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-ngaytxysayzufmfc) |
| 23:08.06 | Reilithion | hi blendmaster1024. Howzit? |
| 23:08.27 | blendmaster1024 | i don't have that kind of zit |
| 23:08.35 | Reilithion | Good to know |
| 23:08.47 | blendmaster1024 | xD |
| 23:08.49 | blendmaster1024 | lolol |
| 23:08.54 | maquis | blendmaster1024: if you did, would it blend? |
| 23:08.55 | maquis | :P |
| 23:09.00 | Reilithion | ew |
| 23:09.11 | blendmaster1024 | lol! |
| 23:09.56 | Reilithion | The only thing I can blend is a pretty disgusting banana milkshake. |
| 23:10.32 | Reilithion | Ha! I chased him away! He fears my mere presence! |
| 23:10.44 | Reilithion | Rawr! |
| 23:51.05 | *** join/#utah justincarmony (n=justinca@c-98-202-44-233.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
