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| 03:32.03 | elg | -chat elg is |
| 03:32.04 | brac | elg is credited in the morning. or take it that always kicked them off??? |
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| 04:45.25 | tensai | whew |
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| 15:54.23 | freedeb | good morning Utah! |
| 15:54.33 | freedeb | this is deb from the FSF |
| 15:54.49 | freedeb | I was wondering who all is going to UTOSC |
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| 15:56.39 | fungus | freedeb: i'm sure there's a bunch in here that are attending. Including me. There are also organizers in this room too. |
| 15:56.59 | fungus | herlo is one of the organizers |
| 15:57.06 | freedeb | That's what I was hoping |
| 15:57.09 | Jayce^ | wow, this will take lolcats to a whole new level...http://gizmodo.com/5374890 |
| 15:57.48 | freedeb | we've got a table, but the fellow who was going to staff it for a lot of the show has just had a death in his family |
| 15:57.59 | freedeb | I have even met herlo |
| 15:58.31 | freedeb | he's been super-nice |
| 15:58.42 | goozbach | freedeb: I'll be there |
| 15:58.46 | goozbach | presenting even |
| 15:58.57 | freedeb | what are you presenting on? |
| 15:59.07 | goozbach | Cobbler |
| 15:59.10 | Zelut | goozbach: "how to be awesome" was it? |
| 15:59.19 | goozbach | http://blog.friocorte.com/ |
| 15:59.30 | goozbach | Zelut: that's my afternoon BoF session |
| 15:59.37 | Zelut | goozbach: ahh, that's right. |
| 15:59.45 | goozbach | "how awesome are we?!, Very" |
| 15:59.53 | goozbach | there's a limited sign up sheet however |
| 16:00.24 | freedeb | Zelut: I'm subbed to you on identi.ca |
| 16:00.50 | Zelut | freedeb: ahh. cool. |
| 16:01.12 | tensai | everybody who's cool will be at utosc |
| 16:01.12 | tensai | pities jsmith |
| 16:02.03 | goozbach | jsmith has a pass this year, he's an emmertius "Awesome" |
| 16:02.42 | freedeb | maybe you could get Sally Struthers to help you sell awesome correspondence classes |
| 16:03.02 | freedeb | late at night |
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| 16:09.36 | Zelut | any suggestions on how to fix this yum dependency issue? http://pastebin.ca/1598596 |
| 16:09.52 | Zelut | i've got base, updates and epel is all, but trying to install gcc epic-fails. |
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| 16:16.07 | freedeb | this is also the official channel for sllug? |
| 16:16.20 | goozbach | Zelut: try gcc.x86_64 |
| 16:16.30 | goozbach | there are some nasty multilib dependancies. |
| 16:16.37 | Zelut | goozbach: some error |
| 16:16.39 | goozbach | Zelut: you just want gcc? |
| 16:16.54 | goozbach | you may have better luck with the groupinstall of the dev tools |
| 16:16.58 | Zelut | goozbach: I just need to compile something that isn't packaged.. |
| 16:17.08 | goozbach | yum grouplist |
| 16:17.16 | goozbach | then look for the development tools |
| 16:17.20 | goozbach | which distro? |
| 16:17.26 | Zelut | erg. my groups must be broken too. no output from grouplist. (CentOS) |
| 16:17.29 | goozbach | fedora, or cent, or suse? |
| 16:17.40 | goozbach | interesting |
| 16:17.44 | goozbach | somethings broken |
| 16:17.47 | goozbach | try yum clean all |
| 16:17.54 | goozbach | then try the grouplist again |
| 16:18.09 | Zelut | i've cleaned about a hundred times in the last two days.. |
| 16:18.15 | goozbach | hmm |
| 16:18.26 | goozbach | now I'm boggled |
| 16:18.55 | Zelut | this is to my internal repo. let me try a public, and come back to fixing my repo afterwards. |
| 16:19.42 | tensai | freedeb: yes |
| 16:20.10 | freedeb | I am hoping to find soem folks who will help staff the FSF table |
| 16:20.29 | freedeb | I'd like to post that call to the sllug list |
| 16:20.58 | freedeb | we'd had a volunteer who was going to help but he's just had a death in his family |
| 16:21.15 | tensai | mecworks would be the fearless sllug leader |
| 16:21.20 | Zelut | I'm doing the GNOME booth, otherwise I'd be free. |
| 16:21.30 | freedeb | aw, thanks |
| 16:22.03 | freedeb | we are offering free t-shirts and endless gratitude |
| 16:22.09 | goozbach | freedeb: put a post out on #utos as well stating a need for help |
| 16:22.42 | mecworks | freedeb: feel free to post to the sllug list |
| 16:22.54 | freedeb | thanks mecworks! |
| 16:23.44 | Jayce^ | so mecworks, you actually going to make it? |
| 16:24.45 | mecworks | I'll only be there for the parts where I'll be talking about SLLUG....um...I don't know when I'm required though.... |
| 16:24.59 | Jayce^ | all of it :-p |
| 16:25.34 | mecworks | I think it's thursday evening. Yeah, I don't have time and I have a stress fracture in my right foot now so I'm staying off of it as much as possible. |
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| 16:28.35 | elg | that didn't stop that politician on dancing with the stars last night |
| 16:28.47 | tensai | mecworks: Jayce^ will carry you around piggy back to all the lectures |
| 16:28.49 | elg | (which I never watch but my M-I-L is in town and she does, so I caught a whiff) |
| 16:29.00 | Jayce^ | tensai: nah, got volunteers for that |
| 16:29.11 | Jayce^ | pulls his sjansen pokeball out |
| 16:29.24 | elg | Just get him a donkey to ride around |
| 16:29.44 | Jayce^ | donkey, sjansen.. yah, that's the diplomatic way of putting it :-p |
| 16:31.29 | freedeb | mecworks: I've just sent email to the list |
| 16:31.32 | freedeb | thanks again! |
| 16:31.37 | goozbach | let it be shown that I volunteered, but I have a "no heavy lifting" cause |
| 16:31.41 | goozbach | er clause |
| 16:31.49 | mecworks | freedeb: np |
| 16:32.32 | freedeb | goozbach: I think rickshaw is the way to go |
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| 16:48.11 | elg | haha, wacked lyrics. (paraphrased) "so I got a present for you, I'll keep it. then I can do what I never could do when i was in love with you: keep the best for me" (however it was worded it rhymed) |
| 16:48.20 | elg | and yet the rest of the song is too creepy mushy to send to an ex unless you wanted to get involved again. |
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| 17:13.25 | sjansen | Anyone disagree with the statement "rms is making himself increasingly irrelevant"? |
| 17:14.18 | Zelut | reads that sentence as: "does anyone feel like arguing with sjansen?" |
| 17:15.05 | sjansen | Nah. I'm just curious if there's anyone left with their head in the sand. |
| 17:15.20 | JoshH | he's just getting older and more senile |
| 17:15.38 | JoshH | i don't think he's been relevant for a very long time |
| 17:16.14 | sinuhe | I am not happy with Stallman's increasing attacks on his allies. When you attack those who are willing to help you, you lose credibility, and appear to be a hypocrite at worst, or anti-social at best. |
| 17:17.17 | Zelut | I haven't followed anything RMS-specific for some time, but I know I've disagreed with many FSF "campaigns" of late. |
| 17:18.43 | JoshH | sjansen: are you talking about the mono/miguel de icaza thing that i just noticed was on slashdot? |
| 17:18.56 | tensai | ~slashdot |
| 17:20.06 | sjansen | JoshH: Well, that's the trigger. But just one in a long line of misbehavior and poor decisions. |
| 17:20.33 | markl_ | is there a local store that would carry dual layer BD-R discs? |
| 17:20.43 | markl_ | the 50GB ones |
| 17:20.49 | sinuhe | Not all of us at GNU feel the same way as Stallman on all topics. |
| 17:20.53 | JoshH | it does seem weird that miguel seems to trust and like ms so much, when ms is basically always trying to crush linux and open source, with a few token gestures here and there |
| 17:21.13 | unum | JoshH: I agree, the patent issue is very concerning |
| 17:21.44 | JoshH | it's not like ms is just another tech company out there, they have always been the main "threat" to open source |
| 17:21.59 | unum | there are those who want stallman to comprimise the principles that have gotten him this far |
| 17:22.05 | unum | I see no reason he should do so |
| 17:22.21 | JoshH | i think stallman should do what he wants, i really don't pay much attention to him |
| 17:22.24 | sinuhe | Apple is becoming a bigger threat than Microsoft these days. At least MS is starting to participate; Apple has withdrawn its participation. |
| 17:22.32 | JoshH | i just think miguel de icaza is a bit shortsighted |
| 17:23.32 | unum | but apple has never made the threat that ms has |
| 17:23.32 | sjansen | I think Icaza has done more to change MS's attitude toward F/OSS than perhaps any other person. |
| 17:23.35 | markl_ | the whole point of free software is to scratch your own personal itch. |
| 17:24.09 | markl_ | miguel & rms have different interests |
| 17:25.24 | sjansen | unum: He should change because what he's doing isn't working anymore. |
| 17:25.34 | sjansen | The GPL as a master stroke. |
| 17:25.46 | sinuhe | sjansen: He? |
| 17:25.49 | sinuhe | Stallman? |
| 17:26.04 | sjansen | Demanding that everyone say "GNU/Linux" was a giant waste of effort, and blow to his credibility. |
| 17:26.33 | JoshH | sjansen: they only change their attitude about it when it suits them for a particular purpose. overall, they would love to see F/OSS disappear, and they do actively work against it all the time |
| 17:26.46 | JoshH | it's like obama trying to change iran's attitude about israel |
| 17:27.37 | JoshH | and rms is like glenn beck, railing against obama for being willing to talk to them |
| 17:28.46 | JoshH | but without crying and seeming slightly less nutty |
| 17:29.10 | sjansen | Of course MS acts for its own self interest. But 10 years ago it was comparing F/OSS to cancer and communism. Today it recognize that it can benefit from participating. Sure, it's no RH, but it has and continues to change deeply. |
| 17:29.11 | mulicheng | My inlaws continue to rave about Glenn beck. They are "every day" listeners to his show :) |
| 17:29.36 | markl_ | mulicheng: my family are hard core mindless republicans and even they can't stand that weirdo |
| 17:29.55 | mulicheng | I keep telling them "moderation in all things" but it doesn't sink in. |
| 17:29.57 | maquis | is starting to think there's a chance for iran |
| 17:30.08 | mulicheng | They had us watch this movie "the obama desception" I about died. |
| 17:30.23 | JoshH | are they birthers? |
| 17:30.31 | elg | "rms is like glenn beck" my head just exploded |
| 17:30.40 | Zelut | mulicheng: I just wish my family would watch one episode of 'The Daily Show'. Perhaps it'd get them to stop worshipping fox news. |
| 17:30.45 | maquis | mulicheng: my mom thinks fox news is "fair and balanced" |
| 17:30.45 | mulicheng | ~wikipedia birthers |
| 17:31.11 | mulicheng | I think they're borderline birthers. |
| 17:31.12 | markl_ | Zelut: nope, won't help |
| 17:31.16 | JoshH | of course, mccain was born in the panama canal but that doesn't bother them |
| 17:31.43 | Zelut | JoshH: of course not. |
| 17:31.51 | tensai | I love the spokeswoman for the birthers. she's a lawyer/dentist/masseuse. |
| 17:32.09 | mulicheng | Didn't they get a judge somewhere to put that on a trial? |
| 17:32.21 | tensai | JoshH: I hope it wasn't full at the time. his poor mother. |
| 17:32.42 | Zelut | sjansen: I think the direction of this conversation pretty well sum up what RMS has contributed lately. Arguing. |
| 17:33.28 | sinuhe | There was a time where freely licensed code spoke for itself. |
| 17:33.48 | *** part/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com) |
| 17:34.01 | mulicheng | I'm getting close to releasing two-three libraries LGPL, should I choose another license? |
| 17:34.21 | Zelut | mulicheng: MIT |
| 17:34.27 | sinuhe | mulicheng: I think the LGPL is a fine license for libraries. |
| 17:35.04 | tensai | mulicheng: why are you concerned? does it not match your license requirements? |
| 17:35.10 | mulicheng | Zelut: Why MIT over LGPL? |
| 17:35.25 | mulicheng | tensai: I think it does, I'm not a lawyer. |
| 17:35.28 | sinuhe | I prefer the original ISC license over the older MIT (X11) license. |
| 17:35.45 | sinuhe | However, tensai asks the right question. |
| 17:35.54 | mulicheng | I want people to use it however, wherever they want, but to continue to contribute changes back. |
| 17:35.59 | mulicheng | seems like LGPL suites that ok. |
| 17:36.10 | sinuhe | mulicheng: It sounds like you answered your own question. |
| 17:36.45 | sjansen | LGPL is a fine license. Just don't start spouting rms propaganda. |
| 17:36.46 | tensai | LGPL sounds right to me too |
| 17:37.04 | mulicheng | So I guess the original question is, is there a better license than LGPL for that situation? Or, is there some reason that GPL/LGPL are tainted by RMS that might make companies not like my libraries? |
| 17:37.25 | fungus | mulicheng: no there isn't. |
| 17:37.29 | fungus | RMS is not a taint. |
| 17:37.40 | fungus | BSD/MIT are not copy-left. |
| 17:37.44 | tensai | he may be a twit, but not a taint |
| 17:38.03 | fungus | they do not protect your code from being appropriated and no changes being contributed back. |
| 17:38.25 | mulicheng | that is ok. |
| 17:38.42 | mulicheng | I want people to be able to use it in proprietary software if they want to as well. |
| 17:39.08 | tensai | LGPL allows the code to be linked in proprietary software |
| 17:39.22 | tensai | it can't be lifted and reappropriated however |
| 17:39.43 | tensai | BSD would allow your code to be copied into the proprietary software |
| 17:40.43 | mulicheng | See, one of the libraries particularly cannot be linked dynamically. It is statically linked not matter what (It's firmware for an embedded device) |
| 17:41.06 | levi | Ooh, what is it? |
| 17:41.06 | mulicheng | s/not/no/ |
| 17:41.16 | tensai | well that sounds like you might need a BSD license then |
| 17:41.34 | tensai | I know the xiph guys released ogg code as bsd so it could be used in firmwares |
| 17:44.00 | mulicheng | Maybe I'll just add an embedded exception to the LGPL. |
| 17:44.07 | mulicheng | You can modify the license I understand. |
| 17:46.38 | sjansen | mulicheng: Is this a personal project, or for work? 'Cause you might want to run things past a lawyer. |
| 17:47.52 | tensai | sjansen: that's what uncredentialed amateurs on irc are for |
| 17:49.38 | sjansen | bills tensai at time and a half |
| 17:50.30 | mulicheng | work |
| 17:50.53 | mulicheng | but we're not _that_ concerned |
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| 18:39.39 | Zelut | goozbach: I resolved my grouplist issue, but it still chokes on installing gcc or Development Tools. |
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| 18:56.59 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha wtf is this? http://www.party-tencho.com/koi2/ |
| 18:57.00 | brac_ | [KOI2] |
| 18:57.00 | brac | [KOI2] |
| 18:57.03 | ^Migs^ | that game makes NO sense |
| 19:01.35 | unum | ah japanese flash games |
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| 19:38.23 | elg | hmm, testing json lib performance by reading and writing a large json-ized gedcom file. what do you think? |
| 19:38.37 | elg | as a very high-level view of performance, obviously |
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| 20:02.35 | sontek | Heartsbane_: hello |
| 20:03.01 | sontek | [: |
| 20:03.17 | Heartsbane_ | sup |
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| 20:35.21 | unum | so facebook won't let you use a business email address? |
| 20:36.01 | mulicheng | How does it know if it's a business? |
| 20:37.21 | unum | that's what I was thinking |
| 20:37.37 | unum | on of my coworkers said she was having trouble getting on |
| 20:37.55 | unum | and eventually came across some sort of "help" link that said something like that |
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| 20:41.40 | goozbach | kinda creepy, but awesome at the same time: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/10/06/the-speaking-piano-and-transforming-audio-to-midi/ |
| 20:46.18 | elg | unum: i'm not familiar with that, but I can imagine some businesses blocking fb emails and so fb having a thing in their help about not using your work email |
| 20:46.31 | elg | uses his work email among others. ;-) |
| 20:47.18 | unum | ya |
| 20:49.17 | elg | goozbach: cool. there doesn't seem to be a consensus on whether he's cheating and overlaying the voice on it though |
| 20:49.33 | elg | esp for the consonants. I wodner |
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| 21:58.41 | mecworks | herlo: Hey, is the SLLUG meeting the 10:30 time slot on Thursday? or is there another time as well? |
| 22:08.40 | freedeb | good night internet! |
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| 22:40.03 | mulicheng | ibot is bored |
| 22:52.24 | tristanbob | does anyone else get astounded by cruise prices? You can take a 7-day cruise for $249 (LA to Mexico) if you can leave this Saturday (Oct 10) |
| 22:53.01 | fozzmoo | tristanbob: They're just trying to lure you away from UTOSC |
| 22:53.18 | tristanbob | let see, unlimited food, private sleeping quarters with maid service, traveling to exotic locations, all for $35/day? huh? |
| 22:53.23 | tristanbob | fozzmoo, I am tempted |
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| 22:55.31 | sjansen | brands tristanbob a traitor |
| 22:57.59 | eightyei1ht | i'm looking forward to utosc, but i can't wait until it's over |
| 22:57.59 | eightyei1ht | it's causing too much stress for me |
| 23:01.32 | fozzmoo | ditto |
| 23:03.45 | stderr | tristanbob: they get you with all the extraneous costs |
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| 23:06.10 | tristanbob | stderr, you mean the optional costs? alchohol? pictures? souveniers? |
| 23:10.13 | tensai | tristanbob: there's the obvious cost of getting to the port since you don't live in LA |
| 23:10.37 | tristanbob | tensai, it's the little things you forget |
| 23:10.39 | tristanbob | :) |
| 23:10.46 | stderr | tristanbob: well, any drinks are going to cost money. Plane tickets. Port fees. |
| 23:10.53 | stderr | and yes all the other stuff. |
| 23:11.59 | stderr | man I can't even remember if the water was free on the cruises I've been on |
| 23:12.10 | stderr | course, I'm usually drinking beer. |
| 23:25.59 | elg | will probably write a JSON parser tomorrow |
| 23:51.29 | sjansen | ORLY? |
| 23:54.48 | maquis | tristanbob: i've heard the cruises over near somalia are pretty cheap too |
| 23:55.31 | maquis | granted... i assume they're mostly catering to the uninformed american public with those |
| 23:55.46 | maquis | i'm sure it's a nice cruise, but..... |
| 23:59.23 | elg | sjansen: yup. gonna figure out which of the C JSON parsers rocks enough to use, and figure I might as well throw my hat into the ring with a simple tailor-made one. give me an excuse to try out peg/leg |