| 00:24.27 | eightyeight | why is opera luxury compared to firefox? |
| 00:27.26 | eightyeight | http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable |
| 01:02.23 | badon | eightyeight: you have to try it. It's much more efficient and customizable. It has a all the best features before anybody else. All the others copy Opera. Opera was the first to have tabs, for example. |
| 02:26.43 | eightyeight | opera still doesn't do caching right |
| 02:26.59 | eightyeight | it doesn't have extension support either |
| 02:27.11 | eightyeight | and, it ships a chat client and email client |
| 02:27.16 | eightyeight | which i would call bloat |
| 02:59.31 | badon | It's performance exceeds firefox, even with vastly more features |
| 02:59.44 | badon | what's that about caching and no extensions? |
| 03:02.43 | badon | I have had as many as 200 tabs open in Opera, without issue. Firefox chokes on a few dozen, both in the UI, and in software errors. |
| 03:03.21 | Supaplex | I could try it again, but the UI drove me nuts |
| 03:04.01 | badon | In opera? It's fully customizable. |
| 03:04.27 | badon | My current UI looks nothing like the default. I have a wide screen, so I put the tabs on the right side instead of the top |
| 03:04.50 | badon | I got rid of most of the buttons, and just added the ones I use the most |
| 03:05.02 | badon | I should screenshot it |
| 03:05.13 | badon | I'm playing with screenshot software anyway... |
| 03:07.14 | eightyeight | if my browser crashes, and i've been typing up a document, i don't want to lose the text |
| 03:07.22 | eightyeight | no browser gets this right other than firefox |
| 03:08.03 | eightyeight | and extensions allow me to extend the browsers capabilities |
| 03:08.09 | eightyeight | opera doesn't have extensions |
| 03:09.07 | eightyeight | opera cold starts faster than firefox, but they're the same on warm boots |
| 03:09.20 | eightyeight | firefox out performs opera and mulit-tab loads too |
| 03:09.47 | eightyeight | javascript is neglegent on both |
| 03:10.03 | eightyeight | but opera smokes all but chrome and safari on css rendering |
| 03:10.24 | eightyeight | opera uses more memory than firefox |
| 03:12.05 | badon | opera does have "extensions" but I think they're called widgets and plugins. |
| 03:12.13 | eightyeight | widgets aren't the same |
| 03:12.22 | eightyeight | and every browser has plugins |
| 03:12.35 | badon | So what's an "extension" then? |
| 03:13.35 | eightyeight | turn the browser into an ad blocker. or enable multi-proxies, such as tor. control external programs like amarok or winamp. download managers, web developer addons, etc |
| 03:13.48 | badon | Oh, sure, it has that too. Let me find it. |
| 03:14.25 | badon | http://www.opera.com/browser/customize/ |
| 03:14.43 | badon | OperaTor is, or was, pretty cool |
| 03:14.58 | badon | Firefox is best for Tor now though, since it hasn't been updated |
| 03:15.14 | badon | I use both FF and Opera |
| 03:15.28 | eightyeight | granted, extensions do bloat the browser, and make it less stable |
| 03:16.01 | badon | You're right about loading up tabs. Opera doesn't quite get it right, but it's minor. |
| 03:16.07 | eightyeight | still trying to find out how opera is "luxury" compared to firefox though |
| 03:16.10 | badon | It takes longer than it should |
| 03:16.20 | badon | well, try downloading with opera vs firefox |
| 03:16.30 | badon | try translating a page |
| 03:16.34 | eightyeight | yeah. i do like the single window interface |
| 03:16.38 | badon | or validating with validator |
| 03:16.42 | badon | or checking screen sizes |
| 03:16.44 | eightyeight | the builtin download manager of firefox drives me nuts |
| 03:16.52 | eightyeight | i can do all that with the web developer extension |
| 03:16.53 | badon | hold on, almost done with my screenshot |
| 03:16.55 | eightyeight | and firebug |
| 03:17.23 | eightyeight | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60 |
| 03:17.34 | badon | My favorite feature in opera is fit-to-width! |
| 03:17.41 | badon | no horizontal scroll bars |
| 03:17.43 | eightyeight | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1843 |
| 03:17.56 | eightyeight | i do like speed dial with opera |
| 03:18.03 | eightyeight | but the side bar drives me nuts |
| 03:18.23 | badon | turn it off |
| 03:18.33 | badon | you mean the panels. They drive me nuts too |
| 03:18.37 | badon | I turn it off |
| 03:18.44 | badon | I turn off email and chat too |
| 03:18.53 | eightyeight | things i'm looking forward to in firefox: |
| 03:19.06 | eightyeight | pid per tab (taken from chrome) |
| 03:19.27 | eightyeight | so if a tab dies, it doesn't kill the browser |
| 03:19.37 | eightyeight | and speed increases with tamarin |
| 03:20.10 | badon | http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5795/operascreenshot.png |
| 03:20.15 | eightyeight | oh, and mozilla weave is the creme de la creme if you're running multiple browsers |
| 03:20.20 | badon | that'll be cool |
| 03:20.35 | badon | I bet opera either already has it, or will before FF |
| 03:20.47 | eightyeight | what? pid per tabs or weave? |
| 03:20.52 | badon | pid |
| 03:20.57 | eightyeight | not yet |
| 03:20.57 | badon | I don't knowwhat weave is |
| 03:21.03 | badon | Sessions in Opera is slick |
| 03:21.34 | eightyeight | the ability to synchronize tabs, browser history, tab history, sessions, caches, bookmarks, extensions, etc through multiple firefox installs |
| 03:21.43 | eightyeight | http://labs.mozilla.com/weave/ |
| 03:21.57 | eightyeight | i pull up my browser at work, and it has the same restore point i left off when at home |
| 03:22.08 | badon | neat |
| 03:22.12 | badon | I just use opera portable |
| 03:22.16 | badon | :P |
| 03:22.32 | eightyeight | don't get me wrong, i like opera. i just don't see the luxury behind it |
| 03:22.42 | eightyeight | i do have opera installed, btw |
| 03:22.50 | badon | I figured. |
| 03:22.52 | eightyeight | i've run it since v7, back when it had ads |
| 03:23.02 | eightyeight | remember those days? |
| 03:23.02 | badon | you're the most knowledgeable non-opera user I've met :) |
| 03:23.06 | badon | yeah |
| 03:23.09 | badon | I used it then too |
| 03:23.19 | badon | I started using it around 5.0 or 6.0 I think |
| 03:23.22 | badon | I can't remember |
| 03:23.35 | badon | I used it before it had ads :) |
| 03:23.35 | eightyeight | not sure what i think with opera unite though |
| 03:23.43 | badon | unite? |
| 03:23.47 | eightyeight | cool concept, but i think it's just bloat |
| 03:24.02 | eightyeight | http://unite.opera.com |
| 03:24.10 | badon | Opera has done well keeping things running fast, even with all the features. |
| 03:24.16 | eightyeight | turns the browser into a "server" |
| 03:24.34 | eightyeight | each instance can host a web site, chat room, file server, etc |
| 03:24.46 | badon | My favorite thing about it is that I can completely customize the UI and pack in the space for use on my UMPC small screen |
| 03:24.49 | eightyeight | of course, when the browser closes, the "server" goes with it |
| 03:24.54 | badon | cool anyway |
| 03:25.01 | badon | that brings the web down to earth |
| 03:25.18 | badon | Opera also has built in bittorrent |
| 03:25.24 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 03:25.33 | eightyeight | again, bloat. :) |
| 03:25.56 | badon | It's so fast though |
| 03:26.07 | badon | It's as if it's not there when you're not using it |
| 03:26.35 | badon | it starts downloads immediately while you screw around figuring out where you want to save it - and that's just normal web downloads |
| 03:26.38 | badon | I love that |
| 03:26.50 | badon | It's half done by then |
| 03:26.58 | eightyeight | yeah. the firefox download manager needs work, imnsho |
| 03:27.18 | eightyeight | thankfully, there are better download manager extensions |
| 03:27.46 | eightyeight | although, i do have on solid gripe with it on linux- qt |
| 03:27.55 | badon | I don't have to worry about all that. |
| 03:27.58 | badon | Luxury |
| 03:27.58 | eightyeight | the qt interface ___SUCKS___ in opera |
| 03:27.59 | badon | :) |
| 03:28.07 | eightyeight | horribly bad |
| 03:28.18 | badon | Hmm, I've never had a problem with it |
| 03:28.31 | badon | I haven't used it for a while though, and last time was on FreeBSD |
| 03:28.32 | eightyeight | you're a windows user :) |
| 03:28.46 | eightyeight | at least according to your screenshot |
| 03:28.59 | badon | yeah, that's a windows SS |
| 03:29.20 | eightyeight | fire up opera in gnome, and tell me how the menus are |
| 03:29.31 | eightyeight | really, really, bad |
| 03:29.47 | eightyeight | or, i'm the only one who can't figure out qt |
| 03:30.34 | badon | I don't use Gnome. I use KDE. |
| 03:30.47 | badon | I don't know if there's any difference because of that. |
| 03:31.06 | badon | Actually, I don't use any GUI on unix anymore |
| 03:31.16 | eightyeight | why? |
| 03:31.23 | badon | they suck compared to windows, and GUI's just make my command line slower |
| 03:31.33 | badon | or something :) |
| 03:31.38 | eightyeight | heh |
| 03:31.51 | badon | I have to add like 300MB to the install just for the GUI. |
| 03:31.57 | eightyeight | i seriously disagree with you about the build quality of gnome or kde compared to the windows ui |
| 03:32.01 | badon | and rape the system to stuff it in there. |
| 03:32.07 | eightyeight | but i'll differ than agrument to another day |
| 03:32.21 | badon | I didn't say build quality |
| 03:32.41 | badon | Windows is GUI-centric, though Unix is catching up. |
| 03:33.22 | badon | Maybe another 5 years and the only difference will be software - actually, it may be to that point already. |
| 03:33.37 | badon | I used Solaris recently, and the GUI was pretty awesome. |
| 03:33.47 | eightyeight | installing gnome or kde might require a lot of binaries and libriaries, and such, but an install of ubuntu desktop has a smaller footprint than windows xp sp3 |
| 03:33.48 | badon | No worse than windows, and in many ways better. |
| 03:33.52 | eightyeight | and, you get usable software |
| 03:34.00 | badon | Yep, I keep hearing that |
| 03:34.07 | badon | I'm going to have to try Ubuntu sometime |
| 03:34.20 | eightyeight | ubuntu, debian, fedora, opensuse... |
| 03:34.29 | badon | though I really prefer FreeBSD for it's textually appealing textiness |
| 03:34.41 | badon | It's texty! |
| 03:34.44 | eightyeight | well, maybe not opensuse. it does include everything plus the kitchen sink on a default install |
| 03:34.59 | badon | "I did not have textual relations with that OS..." |
| 03:35.59 | badon | I haven't done much programming, unix, etc lately, but I'm back on IRC, so I seem to be easing back into it. |
| 04:07.09 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:07.09 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 04:42.13 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 05:44.37 | *** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:33.21 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (n=dsowen@fugue88.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:33.52 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:33.52 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 15:20.32 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 17:14.59 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:14.59 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 17:46.30 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 18:04.41 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 19:15.30 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 20:30.50 | badon | unum: you going to the conference? |
| 20:39.14 | *** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:42.02 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (n=dsowen@fugue88.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:39.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:39.58 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 22:02.32 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 22:10.20 | *** join/#utah carrus85 (n=carrus85@216.83.145.38) |
| 22:18.17 | *** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:50.00 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 23:04.59 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024_ (n=blendmas@75-169-195-86.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:06.23 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:06.23 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:07.22 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:07.22 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:31.14 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 23:38.31 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:38.31 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:39.06 | *** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@32.133.162.250) |
| 23:40.02 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:40.02 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
