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| 15:28.05 | JoshH | this right wing chain forward about target being owned by france and hating vietnam veterans is golden |
| 15:31.24 | sojourner | that's crazy |
| 15:31.26 | sojourner | everybody knows they are owned by Nazis whose descendants can trace their roots back to Adolf Hitler |
| 15:32.54 | goozbach | *THATS* crazy |
| 15:33.14 | goozbach | we all know that Hitler had only one ball, as well as being gay, he has no decendents |
| 15:33.48 | sojourner | dude, they were adopted |
| 15:33.50 | sojourner | :D |
| 15:35.01 | goozbach | ahh |
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| 16:03.34 | synic | eggyknap: ping |
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| 16:31.10 | eightyeight | so, is it too lat to call godwin's law? :) |
| 16:32.27 | unum | half eunchs can still have children |
| 16:32.27 | unum | in fact they have a 95% chance of no fertility problems |
| 16:34.15 | unum | and hitler had a mistress |
| 16:34.29 | unum | though I don't think she did ever get pregnant |
| 16:35.54 | *** join/#utah mulicheng (n=dennis@67.40.105.188) |
| 16:37.19 | fungus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Adolf_Hitler |
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| 16:43.04 | DonUtah | Hi, lookin to chat |
| 16:43.40 | unum | uh ok |
| 16:43.43 | unum | hi |
| 16:44.11 | JoshH | wanna cyber? |
| 16:44.21 | unum | I think you're in the wrong channel |
| 16:44.33 | DonUtah | lol, hi |
| 16:44.38 | unum | oh wait |
| 16:44.48 | unum | I thought that was donutah saying that.... |
| 16:44.58 | unum | haha joshH |
| 16:45.04 | DonUtah | ouch |
| 16:45.30 | unum | actually there was a girl who joined once who did want to cyber.... |
| 16:45.40 | stderr | yea. "girl". |
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| 16:46.21 | unum | oops I scared him off |
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| 17:14.30 | Sargun_Screen | hi |
| 17:14.42 | Sargun_Screen | The Nokia N900 looks neat |
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| 18:53.57 | eggyknap | synic: pong |
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| 19:30.30 | sjansen | ~fever |
| 19:30.56 | harleypig | hears the distant sound of a cowbell |
| 19:30.58 | sjansen | ibot: fever is <reply>I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell! |
| 19:30.59 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 19:31.01 | sjansen | ~fever |
| 19:31.02 | ibot | I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell! |
| 19:31.10 | sjansen | ~harleypig++ |
| 19:31.40 | sjansen | is listening to "Gotta Have More Cowbell" by Napt on Pandora |
| 19:31.47 | sjansen | Fun song. |
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| 19:35.25 | Supaplex | humm'k heh |
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| 19:48.15 | goozbach | you know, it's fun to build debian chroot envrionments |
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| 19:51.53 | fadein | draft #1 of the much-anticipated SUPERDELL fortune file is now available at http://filebin.ca/josvka/superdell |
| 19:53.10 | mulicheng | :D |
| 19:53.24 | stderr | oh boy. |
| 19:58.36 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75-148-99-197-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:03.40 | sojourner | i guess only utahns can appreciate the wisdom that comes only from Super Dell :) |
| 20:06.17 | levi | No, I showed his blog entry with the collected quotes to a bunch of non-utahns and they got quite a kick out of it. |
| 20:07.08 | stderr | I'm a non-utahn and it's sadly hilarious. |
| 20:07.18 | stderr | especially the black belt quote. |
| 20:10.42 | mulicheng | Do non-utahns think super dell is representative? |
| 20:10.50 | fadein | just don't read it all in one sitting, unless you've first loaded up on Redbull. Then and only then may you be SUPER enough to not have your head explode from the sheer awesomeness |
| 20:13.52 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@166.70.38.221) |
| 20:15.58 | sojourner | the scary part is that he actually believes himself |
| 20:17.32 | unum | he did get 24,820 votes for governor |
| 20:18.26 | mulicheng | What percentage is that? |
| 20:18.38 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 20:18.44 | unum | 2.6% |
| 20:19.55 | mulicheng | Interesting. I wonder how many of those are people who really wanted him to be gov. |
| 20:20.30 | sojourner | 99.9% of those were pity and protest votes :D |
| 20:20.59 | mulicheng | Yeah, I'm thinking protest votes are a bunch. |
| 20:21.25 | sojourner | he and his family were the other .1% |
| 20:21.27 | unum | there were a lot of republicans upset with huntsman |
| 20:21.36 | unum | by brothers were two of those |
| 20:21.48 | unum | one of who actually worked for him |
| 20:21.56 | unum | s/by/my |
| 20:22.35 | unum | of course I think he just wanted politics to be more entertaining... |
| 20:22.44 | sojourner | it was that |
| 20:22.48 | unum | he probably would have regretted that decision had he won |
| 20:23.00 | sojourner | so would we |
| 20:24.13 | sojourner | try and imagine the State of the State address... |
| 20:24.13 | unum | screaming the whole time... |
| 20:24.26 | unum | and to all of you other constitutionalist out there PICK A SIDE!!!!!! |
| 20:28.43 | fadein | pick superdell's side. if it wasn't the right side he wouldn't be on it |
| 20:29.21 | sojourner | and don't forget that he loves you |
| 20:29.52 | sojourner | feels dirty now |
| 20:32.19 | sjansen | "A little pain never hurt anyone." |
| 20:32.19 | sjansen | heh |
| 20:32.49 | unum | A mind that isnât open is most likely out to lunch. - Dell Schanze |
| 20:32.58 | unum | that's a nice quote coming for mhim |
| 20:32.59 | unum | him |
| 20:33.28 | sojourner | yeah, except that his mind is so open that all kinds of weirdness falls in and out |
| 20:33.39 | fadein | hey, who knows out to lunch better than he? |
| 20:33.48 | goozbach | his mind is so open it long ago fell out his ear |
| 20:34.01 | mulicheng | Or out his mouth. |
| 20:34.05 | unum | we'll have plenty of energy if only we outlaw abortion |
| 20:34.25 | unum | I look at some of the stuff he says and can't believe he hasn't be excommunicated yet |
| 20:34.32 | unum | of course for all I know he has been |
| 20:34.57 | sojourner | no one has the authority to excommunicate him |
| 20:35.00 | sojourner | :D |
| 20:35.08 | unum | :) |
| 20:36.04 | sojourner | exorcise might be the better word |
| 20:37.19 | unum | Instead of trying to find yourself, just decide who you want to be and become it â Dell |
| 20:37.30 | unum | I have to admit I've said something like that myself |
| 20:38.45 | sjansen | Some of the quotes aren't unreasonable, even intelligent, others are... |
| 20:38.55 | unum | sjansen: true |
| 20:39.07 | unum | I like the one about putting teachers on redbull |
| 20:41.08 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristanr@ubuntu/member/tristanbob) |
| 20:44.02 | sojourner | "Every single person that hates me worships Satan." -- SUPERDELL |
| 20:44.07 | sojourner | ^^ that's classic |
| 20:44.30 | fungus | worships Satan |
| 20:45.52 | mulicheng | I recall working for a company that got all the computers from TAC |
| 20:46.17 | unum | for the most part they sold good computers |
| 20:46.17 | sojourner | did they feel loved? |
| 20:46.18 | mulicheng | They worshiped Satan after TAC went belly up. |
| 20:46.20 | unum | he's just crazy |
| 20:47.03 | unum | there was an other utah county politician that blamed his lost election on satan |
| 20:47.53 | unum | though my favorite was the guy that introduced a resolution that the utah county republican party recognizes that it is satan inspiring illegal immigration |
| 20:48.13 | mulicheng | my goodness. |
| 20:48.55 | sojourner | think about it though: Who else but Super Dell could inspire an hour long irc chat? |
| 20:49.00 | sojourner | ;) |
| 20:49.10 | unum | ha, it was a leg chair |
| 20:50.57 | unum | http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/article_5786c48b-e9bd-5eef-a2e6-2707380e3b12.html |
| 20:51.14 | unum | I hope none of my leg chairs are that crazy |
| 20:51.32 | unum | though we have to beg and plead to find leg chairs, so we take who ever we can get |
| 20:51.39 | unum | there's not generally much of an election |
| 21:00.24 | sjansen | Uhm... Why would Satan want to eliminate national border? |
| 21:00.42 | sjansen | It seems to me that borders are one of the biggest barriers to world peace. |
| 21:01.01 | sjansen | And I'm pretty sure he's not the one pushing for world peace. |
| 21:01.54 | JoshH | sjansen: maybe mexicans are his evil minions and that's why they come here and commit so much crime, and secure borders help keep them out, or something |
| 21:02.20 | JoshH | http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/leahfu/acid_picdump_78_71.jpg |
| 21:03.51 | mulicheng | Why are borders a barrier to world peace? |
| 21:04.58 | sjansen | Pretty hard to fight a war with another nation when there is no other nation to fight. |
| 21:05.18 | mulicheng | is having nations a bad thing? |
| 21:05.35 | sjansen | is having nations a good thing? |
| 21:05.45 | sjansen | Does either question make any sense at all? |
| 21:05.54 | sojourner | they don't seem to have trouble fighting with out borders in Sudan |
| 21:06.24 | JoshH | true, there religion is the problem |
| 21:06.26 | mulicheng | I was just thinking that if we all lived on one world, with no distinction of what nation/country, that there would still be people who hate other people |
| 21:07.50 | unum | the cultral differences cause a lot of hatred |
| 21:08.04 | unum | man french canadians hate english canadians |
| 21:08.10 | unum | many welch hate english |
| 21:08.20 | sjansen | Perhaps, but it'll be harder for them to finance research into chemical and biological warfare, impose trade tariffs, etc. |
| 21:08.20 | mulicheng | Would anybody like to argue that we should all merge into one culture? |
| 21:08.20 | unum | maybe just everyone hates the english... |
| 21:08.36 | unum | mulicheng: as long as it's mine that's fine |
| 21:08.41 | mulicheng | :) |
| 21:08.47 | unum | because there's no way I'm going to your church, because it's wrong |
| 21:08.47 | mulicheng | yeah mine too. |
| 21:08.55 | unum | and I'll go to hell for attending it |
| 21:09.01 | mulicheng | exactly. |
| 21:09.14 | sjansen | I'd be opposed. Without Thai, Indian, Mexican and Italian food, I'm not sure how I could go on living. |
| 21:09.19 | fadein | and if there isn't a significant difference between cultures, then there's always a difference between text editors |
| 21:09.52 | unum | I could live with out thai, or indian |
| 21:10.01 | unum | but mexican and italian food are part of MY culture |
| 21:10.37 | fadein | unum: no thai food? YOU WILL DIE, HEATHEN!!!!! |
| 21:10.56 | mulicheng | So perhaps national borders aren't the issue at all. |
| 21:11.22 | sjansen | Borders != cultures. |
| 21:11.43 | sjansen | Borders == govt and isolation. |
| 21:11.43 | unum | it makes for more national unity when they do |
| 21:11.44 | mulicheng | That's what I mean. |
| 21:11.59 | fadein | this is how the sides at armageddon will break down: team edward vs. team jacob |
| 21:12.26 | unum | if that's a reference to something I don't get it |
| 21:12.31 | unum | and it better not be twilight |
| 21:13.00 | mulicheng | So is government bad then, or just the isolation? |
| 21:14.04 | unum | loves government |
| 21:14.10 | unum | hugs his government |
| 21:14.29 | unum | protects me from the big scary capatilists |
| 21:14.31 | sjansen | Asking if govt is bad is silly, it's like asking if water is bad. |
| 21:15.24 | unum | contacts the anarchists so we can plan sjansen's death |
| 21:15.30 | sjansen | Water is great when it's coming out of a shower head, not so great when it's coming out of a ceiling. |
| 21:15.50 | unum | I like how all the anti-government people still describe government institutions in their theories |
| 21:16.07 | unum | "but you see it's voluntary, so it's not government" |
| 21:16.17 | mulicheng | so isolationist governments are bad for world peace, but some governements could potentially be good for world peace. Just trying to understand your reasoning. |
| 21:16.37 | fadein | water is great. it washes teh infos out of the mean old terrorists |
| 21:16.50 | unum | govrenment is still neccisary for world peace, but one government would mean no one was really at "war" |
| 21:16.59 | unum | maybe insurgencies, but no war |
| 21:17.21 | mulicheng | But wouldn't the <substitute culture X> still have issues with <culture Y> |
| 21:17.31 | stderr | fadein: well, it makes them give up false infoz at any rate. |
| 21:17.36 | mulicheng | and how is that better? |
| 21:17.39 | unum | yes, just like the french canadian have issues with the english canadians |
| 21:17.50 | unum | or the mormons have issues with the athiests |
| 21:17.58 | unum | but there's no war in those countries |
| 21:18.16 | unum | for the most part people aren't getting killed |
| 21:19.22 | fadein | unum: yeah, just like how the burmese don't always agree, but manage to keep it peaceful |
| 21:19.46 | mulicheng | There are plenty of places that don't keep it peaceful. |
| 21:20.11 | mulicheng | How many countries in Africa are having genocides right now? |
| 21:20.29 | fadein | or how ahjmadinajad allows the opposition to protest his historic victory |
| 21:20.44 | sjansen | When was the last time you saw the Crips and the Blood driving pushing over buildings with armored bulldozers? Releasing mustard gas? Inventing smart bombs? |
| 21:20.46 | unum | fadein: or the iraqis for that matter |
| 21:21.35 | fadein | unum: true. we could learn a lot from them. but i'll bet you we don't :) |
| 21:21.39 | mulicheng | They would if they had the stuff. |
| 21:22.09 | fadein | you don't have to learn when you're the one who's right |
| 21:22.13 | sjansen | I'd fly if I could. |
| 21:22.34 | mulicheng | And suppose there was just one big nation. Somebody would say, "hey, look at all those people fighting in area xyz, go get the armored bulldozers and mustard gas so we can stop them." |
| 21:22.50 | stderr | mulicheng: the U.S. already does that. |
| 21:23.09 | mulicheng | Tis true. Whether we should or not is another debate. |
| 21:23.42 | unum | the funny thing to me about most people who oppose one world government, they seem to support the US being that government |
| 21:23.53 | unum | they just don't want it to a democratic government |
| 21:24.10 | unum | by that I mean everyone gets to vote not just america |
| 21:24.42 | mulicheng | We have a republic by the way, not a true deomcracy. |
| 21:25.12 | sjansen | ~award mulicheng the pointless semantics award |
| 21:25.24 | mulicheng | I don't think it's pointless. |
| 21:25.39 | mulicheng | I think a lot of people don't understand the difference. |
| 21:26.39 | sjansen | In this context it is important. It was perfectly clear that unum meant a representative govt similar to that enjoyed in the US. You just saw an opportunity to show off. |
| 21:26.47 | sjansen | s/is important/isn't important/ |
| 21:28.39 | sjansen | Pointing out that we live in a republic, not a pure democracy, served no more purpose than Stallman's insistence on GNU/Linux. |
| 21:29.14 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@173-14-226-81-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:29.20 | jalbretsen | okay, pop quiz |
| 21:29.29 | mulicheng | I'm going to scroll back, forget the last few lines, and comment on the original comment.. I'd like to hear more arguments for/against one big government. |
| 21:29.29 | jalbretsen | what is the biggest SWAP partition you've ever seen |
| 21:29.56 | stderr | especially since a republic _is_ a democracy. It's just a representative democracy. "pure democracy" is a misnomer. People mean a "direct democracy". |
| 21:30.08 | stderr | (if we're going to get into semantics) |
| 21:30.38 | sjansen | I want a lolly. I demand a lolly. |
| 21:31.30 | sjansen | The flow of the conversation was not about whether one world govt is good or bad, it was about the stupidity and hypocrisy of most of claim it is automatically pure evil incarnate. |
| 21:31.53 | jalbretsen | hmmm, no takers. I seem to have hit the Glen Beck hour. |
| 21:31.58 | sjansen | Obviously it would have potential to be either good or bad depending on the shape it took. |
| 21:32.54 | mulicheng | So perhaps a lot of nay-sayers believe it has no potential to be good. |
| 21:34.11 | eightyeight | you're all red, and you know it. you just won't admit it |
| 21:34.16 | eightyeight | freaking commies |
| 21:34.23 | sjansen | mulicheng: See previous comment about stupidity and hypocrisy. |
| 21:35.08 | eightyeight | jalbretsen: we have a 12GB swap partition. i think it's the largest in our datacenter |
| 21:35.28 | eightyeight | wait. no. scratch that. i know of one larger |
| 21:35.43 | eightyeight | there is a 48GB swap partition for oracle on one box |
| 21:35.57 | sjansen | mulicheng: At no point did anyone claim that "nay-sayers" oppose one world nation because they think it would be good. Instead, it was pointed out that they must be morons to form such an opinion without considering the world of possible good and bad variations. |
| 21:36.14 | eightyeight | jalbretsen: why do you ask? |
| 21:38.35 | jalbretsen | someone must have typed and extra zero at this ISP when they installed this. 80 Gig swap. 1/3 of the HD. |
| 21:38.57 | eightyeight | what does the server do? |
| 21:39.08 | jalbretsen | mail server |
| 21:39.21 | jalbretsen | well |
| 21:39.35 | jalbretsen | hangs head in shame and types in small letters: |
| 21:39.40 | jalbretsen | email marketing |
| 21:39.45 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:39.48 | sjansen | ~shun jalbretsen |
| 21:39.51 | ibot | You are dead to me, jalbretsen. |
| 21:40.20 | eightyeight | jalbretsen: that's probably a typo. maybe not though. applications, like oracle, can be finely tuned to take advantage of a lot of swap |
| 21:40.23 | fungus | ~shout jalbretsen is a spammer! |
| 21:40.24 | ibot | okay, fungus |
| 21:40.36 | fungus | doh |
| 21:40.47 | eightyeight | ~poo fungus |
| 21:40.48 | ibot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at fungus |
| 21:41.08 | jalbretsen | naw, when I do network install with kickstart and friends, I use 4 gigs |
| 21:41.16 | jalbretsen | for these kinds of servers |
| 21:41.50 | jalbretsen | I consider myself undercover at the moment ;) |
| 21:41.50 | fungus | ~jalbretsen is also a spammer |
| 21:41.51 | ibot | fungus: okay |
| 21:42.28 | eightyeight | if i don't have applications that are written for large swap amounts, i give 1GB to the system |
| 21:42.44 | eightyeight | i see no reason to give more |
| 21:43.14 | eightyeight | credits sjansen |
| 21:43.27 | maquis | i haven't even bothered using swap on my home machines recently |
| 21:43.32 | jalbretsen | ya, I've read arguments that if you give it so much it doesn't do anything more for you cause the HD has to spin to do anything |
| 21:44.07 | maquis | i had been giving it some swap, and the swap usage was 0% |
| 21:44.17 | maquis | and my memory usage was never going above about 10% |
| 21:44.21 | eightyeight | maquis: it is a good thing to give some amounts of swap. the kernel does place some stuff in swap immediately after boot |
| 21:44.26 | sjansen | It's a good idea to have at least a little swap. Think of it as safety blanket. The extra swap let's Linux act braver because it knows it has an escape plan. |
| 21:44.28 | jalbretsen | maquis: you must not be running seti anymore |
| 21:44.57 | jalbretsen | needs and escape plan too |
| 21:45.01 | jalbretsen | s/and/an/ |
| 21:46.17 | mulicheng | sjansen: you keep referring to the apparent stupidity/hypocrisy of other people who form opinions without considering the possible outcomes. I'm trying to get back to your opinion though. You said borders inhibit world peace. I was just curious if you felt that if we had one big government with no borders, if things would be better. I still see room for plenty of violence hatred under that situation. |
| 21:46.50 | mulicheng | I'm not saying that would be an absolute bad thing though. If I'm correct, a lot of local people believe we'll end up with one world government one of these days. |
| 21:48.00 | sjansen | mulicheng: I refuse to stoop to your simplistic characterization of the issue. |
| 21:49.07 | sjansen | At no point did I say there wasn't potential for violence. I said there would be one less contributing factor for violence. If you can't see the distinction, then you're among the morons determined the boil a complex issue down to knee jerk aphorisms. |
| 21:49.17 | sjansen | This discussion has become tedious. I'm done. |
| 21:50.57 | mulicheng | Oh fine, forget it. I'm just curious to see some valid arguments for different opinions. I think there is plenty of room for debate both ways. I don't really even want to debate it. Just find the topic interesting is all. |
| 21:52.33 | sjansen | mulicheng: Okay, fine, I'll continue the discussion. As soon as you convince me that water is always and forever will be bad. |
| 21:53.20 | mulicheng | water is always good. The stuff in it can potentially be bad. |
| 21:53.38 | jalbretsen | Water can be bad. Watch Heros |
| 21:56.00 | eightyeight | this channel gets very annoying rather quickly, doesn't it? |
| 21:56.21 | sjansen | eightyeight: Only when you're around. :-P |
| 21:56.44 | eightyeight | it just wouldn't be #utah without pushing bottons and hitting the hot topics |
| 21:58.30 | WoodsDog | has anyone been out to the salt flats to see the speed events? is it worth going out to see? |
| 21:58.36 | WoodsDog | http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats/events_at_bonneville.html |
| 21:58.36 | sjansen | reveals to the channel that eightyeight is a closet Perl lover |
| 21:58.37 | brac | [Events & Permits at Bonneville] |
| 21:59.44 | eightyeight | ~perl sjansen |
| 21:59.45 | ibot | ACTION forces ^Migs^ to use perl |
| 21:59.51 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:59.54 | sjansen | ha! |
| 22:00.04 | eightyeight | ~sjansen sjansen |
| 22:00.05 | ibot | ACTION tells sjansen good things about sjansen |
| 22:00.11 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:00.14 | sjansen | ~botsnack |
| 22:00.14 | ibot | sjansen: :) |
| 22:00.15 | eightyeight | stupid ibot |
| 22:02.00 | Zelut | lol |
| 22:04.56 | sjansen | eightyeight, Zelut and WoodsDog all commenting in #utah in the same hour?! |
| 22:05.14 | sjansen | wonders if this is one of the signs of the apocalypse |
| 22:05.20 | WoodsDog | :) |
| 22:10.39 | maquis | -chat sjansen is |
| 22:10.40 | brac | sjansen is listening to them |
| 22:13.51 | *** part/#utah mulicheng (n=dennis@67.40.105.188) |
| 22:16.57 | levi | pushes some buttons |
| 22:17.00 | levi | Am I too late? |
| 22:20.24 | sojourner | we're no longer talking to one another and we've wandered off to vent our frustration in our own private way |
| 22:20.37 | sojourner | ;) |
| 22:20.47 | levi | No, you're wrong! |
| 22:23.26 | sjansen | No, I'm working! |
| 22:24.43 | sjansen | ~blame levi |
| 22:24.44 | ibot | ACTION blames levi (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:26.13 | unum | levi: one world government of tyrany or anarchy |
| 22:26.19 | unum | pick one, there's no in between |
| 22:27.03 | sojourner | there's no borders either |
| 22:27.07 | sojourner | :D |
| 22:27.45 | unum | and when I say anarchy I mean a bunch of originally self selective groups warring it out until one rules all the others(for its own protection) |
| 22:27.45 | sojourner | with Super Dell as the Supreme Leader |
| 22:31.06 | levi | unum: Oh, well, as long as you're not talking about those anarcho-socialist pansies. :P |
| 22:31.38 | unum | well I was..... |
| 22:31.55 | unum | eventually they would have to conquer their neighbors to protect themselves |
| 22:35.59 | levi | Well, they must not be *real* anarcho-socialists then. ;) |
| 22:55.40 | unum | I love political discussions with my mom and brother, because it always comes down to there not being a single elected *real* repubilcan in utah |
| 22:55.58 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:57.08 | levi | Wow, PG&E quit the US Chamber of Commerce because PG&E is upset with the Chamber's criticism of global warming legislation. |
| 22:58.21 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@unaffiliated/blendmaster1024) |
| 23:01.08 | levi | Oh, and I hate that "we're a republic not a democracy" thing. |
| 23:01.33 | blendmaster1024 | lol, we're a democratic republic. at least according to the founders. |
| 23:02.41 | levi | That was apparently one of the big propaganda points of the John Birch Socieity, and it's stuck in the right-wing republican and libertarian worldview. |
| 23:05.05 | unum | ya I got into that argument with someone recently |
| 23:05.29 | unum | kept asking him where his definition came from |
| 23:05.40 | blendmaster1024 | lolol |
| 23:06.02 | unum | explained to him republican forms of government(rome, house of lords) |
| 23:06.20 | unum | though rome actually had a democratic element to it, I'm not sure for how long |
| 23:06.29 | levi | How about the People's Republic of China? :) |
| 23:06.51 | unum | machavilli claims that the longest standing governments have an element of monarch, republic, and democracy |
| 23:06.56 | unum | levi: good point |
| 23:06.57 | blendmaster1024 | is that what's governing china now? |
| 23:07.04 | unum | they arguably are a republic |
| 23:07.08 | unum | because it's self selecting |
| 23:07.23 | unum | in order to vote you have to belong to the party |
| 23:07.38 | unum | the party decides which people are party members |
| 23:07.51 | unum | so i'd say it's a republic in it's truest form |
| 23:07.57 | unum | none of that democracy crap |
| 23:08.03 | unum | I'll have to remember that for next time |
| 23:08.36 | levi | unum: Rome was largely oligarchic while it was a republic; the Senate came only from the elite class, and later only from the rich merchant-type plebians, and although plebians could elect other officers, the Senate could essentially jerrymander things to get their way no matter what. |
| 23:09.18 | levi | So, it had some democratic elements, but they didn't actually hold a lot of power. |
| 23:09.19 | harleypig | anyone familiar with solution x in provo? |
| 23:09.39 | blendmaster1024 | harleypig, nope, havent ever heard of it |
| 23:10.32 | levi | Essentially a republic, in the broad sense, is a government without a monarch. |
| 23:10.46 | unum | ya |
| 23:11.00 | unum | it's a fine line between oligarchy and republic |
| 23:11.18 | unum | and really, who has time for a democracy |
| 23:11.30 | unum | atleast in today's age |
| 23:11.30 | levi | I don't think the two terms are exclusive. |
| 23:12.26 | levi | Describing governments is more like 'tagging' than 'categorizing' |
| 23:12.47 | levi | In web-2.0 parlance. :) |
| 23:13.03 | blendmaster1024 | yeah ... what isn't though? is there anything that's categorical? |
| 23:14.09 | levi | Sure, but only when the system has been specifically set up that way. |
| 23:15.02 | blendmaster1024 | that's true for computers.. but i meant real life. i guess people are either men or women, animals are cats or dogs not both... |
| 23:15.25 | levi | And then you have to keep in mind that such a system is never going to capture every way to group and compare those things. |
| 23:17.21 | levi | Welcome to Ontology! |
| 23:17.26 | stderr | if only government theories were kept in a VCS, we could figure out which commits broke it. |
| 23:17.47 | levi | If only it were that simple. |
| 23:18.27 | harleypig | how about rodger smith ... anyone know of a rodger smith in the provo area? |
| 23:18.48 | levi | Time for me to head home. |
| 23:21.01 | blendmaster1024 | stderr, lol |
| 23:29.07 | fungus | svn propdel 8 California |
| 23:29.17 | blendmaster1024 | :) |
| 23:29.33 | blendmaster1024 | but not 8, that one was a good thing |
| 23:29.49 | fungus | O.o |
| 23:48.00 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 23:48.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
