IRC log for #utah on 20090828

00:09.00*** join/#utah Kemeros (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
00:09.45*** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
00:11.12*** join/#utah Kemeros (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
00:12.00*** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
00:30.26*** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
00:41.15*** join/#utah bmidgley2_ (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
01:06.17*** part/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89)
01:29.47leviGood evening.
01:34.47*** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@71-32-238-70.slkc.qwest.net)
01:43.41leviWhat's up in #utah tonight?
02:14.40*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
02:25.38*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net)
02:29.43*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:29.43*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
02:46.32*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
03:13.17*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@63.225.228.210)
03:29.24*** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@techhat.dsl.xmission.com)
04:07.21leviAaagh, it turns out KUED is running the Doctor Who reruns out of order. :/
04:08.20leviOh... no, they're not, I just missed recording one. :/
04:43.35*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:43.35*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
05:00.03*** join/#utah CSJewell (n=Curtis@74-36-215-63.br1.tmn.ut.frontiernet.net)
05:48.39*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
05:48.39*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
07:59.48*** join/#utah pashdown_ (i=pashdown@sine.xmission.com)
08:00.07*** join/#utah Supaplex_ (n=supaplex@166.70.62.193)
08:23.26*** join/#utah rbm (n=rbm@divisiblebyfour.org)
09:12.59*** join/#utah ccjoe (n=ccjoe@69.20.152.109)
11:55.03*** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com)
11:55.03*** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ
13:41.13*** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
13:42.03*** join/#utah bmidgley2_ (n=brad@c-67-171-119-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
14:07.16*** join/#utah fcodiaz (n=fcodiaz@70.102.172.126)
14:16.58*** join/#utah zzzirk_a` (n=zzzirk@173-10-29-145-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
14:30.04*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:30.04*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
14:31.36*** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com)
14:31.36*** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ
14:45.14*** join/#utah brac_ (i=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:45.45*** join/#utah tyce (n=tyce@69.169.175.23.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
14:46.00*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-67-164-124-14.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:46.00*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
14:47.24*** join/#utah Migs (i=Migs@205.122.50.21)
14:54.32Migshttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112312561
14:54.33brac['Reading Rainbow' Reaches Its Final Chapter : NPR]
14:55.13*** join/#utah carmony (n=justin@97-117-82-73.slkc.qwest.net)
15:00.41*** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@137.65.133.24)
15:02.02*** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com)
15:06.43*** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com)
15:22.16*** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@208.110.152.42)
15:32.38*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75-148-99-197-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
15:41.32leviSad that Reading Rainbow is ending, though I didn't know they were even making new episodes.
15:45.36maquisthey're ending reading rainbow?
15:45.39maquis:(
15:47.18goozbach<PROTECTED>
15:52.00RyanEThat's what the world needs: a performance-enhancing meat snack...  http://consumerist.com/5347440/ever-wish-beef-jerky-had-caffeine-wish-no-more
15:56.59mrpulllevi: don't take my word for it
16:01.11*** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com)
16:03.56KeighvinI'm totally trolling for votes for my 2009 UTOSCON presentation.
16:03.59KeighvinAny takers?
16:04.01*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
16:04.25*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225)
16:05.53KeighvinGuess not.
16:07.55*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com)
16:11.52tyceI think that's like the 8th time that pic has been posted in here.
16:12.52RyanEYeah, it's sjansen's auto-join.
16:13.03RyanEevery time he comes in, ibot posts it again.
16:13.20tyce:) well that explains it
16:13.25*** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org)
16:13.34*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com)
16:13.39sjansenJust for tyce.
16:13.55tycety
16:14.30RyanEsweet.
16:14.43KeighvinJust out of curiosity, who here works for PHP shops?
16:14.54goozbachKeighvin: to troll for your presentation you need to post a link to the presentation
16:14.59goozbachI've still yet to vote
16:15.30Keighvinhttp://blog.paultomlinson.net/2009/08/torpor/
16:15.56KeighvinThere's a link to the abstract from that article, which includes more than the brief fluff in the abstract.
16:16.31goozbachgotcha
16:21.30sjansenFriends don't let friends use PHP.
16:22.43tensaisjansen: how many years have you been php sober?
16:22.43KeighvinYeah, yeah, I'm aware of the sentiment, and will even agree that PHP is just retarded Perl.
16:23.05KeighvinIt has a pretty large user base though, especially because the low barrier of entry (read:any fool can use it, and they do).
16:23.23KeighvinRegretably, it is currently my lot to work for a PHP shop - so I was wondering who I could comiserate with.
16:23.34*** topic/#utah by tensai -> http://utos.org/irc | Log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2009 Registration is open - http://sn.im/utos-reg | UTOSC voting ends Aug 28th 11:59:59 | YAGNI
16:23.45*** topic/#utah by tensai -> http://utos.org/irc | Log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2009 Registration is open - http://sn.im/utos-reg | UTOSC voting ends Aug 28th 23:59:59 | YAGNI
16:24.35*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@1601br1-egress-1.corp.tfbnw.net)
16:24.35*** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ
16:24.38sjansentensai: 3 or 4, I don't remember for sure.
16:25.10KeighvinI will say this in my defense: it's possible to write disciplined, clean PHP code in much the same way it's possible to write disciplined, accessible Perl code.
16:25.40KeighvinIt's up to the developer to make it not suck (though they suck in different facets - either entirely to easy to destory oneself, or completely impenetrable, etc.)
16:28.54tensaiKeighvin: to the extent the language doesn't get in the way, I'll agree (e.g. stripslashes)
16:29.07tensaidon't mind sjansen. he's always grumpy.
16:29.53KeighvinYeah - PHP suffers from an early onset of function diarrhea, and it was very very messy.
16:30.17KeighvinInconsistent naming conventions, argument orders, utility components, etc.
16:30.51KeighvinMost of it oriented very much around the presentation layer.
16:31.14KeighvinThe back end engine maturation though, especially with the advent of the OO rewrite for 5.x+ has made some huge improvements though.
16:34.00sjansenstripslashes, addslashes, magic_quotes, register_globals, no decent DB abstraction, PHP has been a long trail of avoidable tears
16:34.19KeighvinAgreed on every point.
16:34.29Keighvinmagic_quotes and register_globals I think being the worst offenders.
16:35.24KeighvinYou can avoid all the slash & register nonsense, but the DB abstraction remains a sore point.
16:35.35sjansenI will admit that there are smart developers who use PHP, though few do it out of preference. I will also admit that PHP has been gradually cleaning up its act.
16:35.36Keighvin5.3.0 promises to be a little better with mysqli support.
16:36.16KeighvinBut that's actually the topic of my proposed presentation for UTOSCON - I've written a Hibernate style ORM persistence abstraction layer for PHP.
16:36.57sjansenBut I suspect it's too late. Most people who care about writing quality code have jumped ship, gradually increasing the incompetence concentration of the community. (A scary thought considering it already had a pretty high incompetence concentration.)
16:37.24KeighvinI'll die on my pyre then.
16:38.33sjansenMost of the competent programmers still using PHP are doing so because there employer requires it. To me, the situation spells PHPs slow morph into another Java. Ironic considering the years Java has spent trying to break out of the bonds PHP is slowly groping toward.
16:40.12Keighvin...which would actually make it sound more like a process of demand/market dictacted growth, with PHP behind the Java curve.
16:42.28KeighvinAssertions of competence aside, most programming languages that achieve any kind of critical mass for adoption go through several stages of growth and change related thereto: experimental, niche, diehard / early adopter, shallow general market penetration, general awareness, common market penetration, and market force.
16:42.49KeighvinThat is, those that don't wither into obviescence.
16:42.57maquisheh
16:43.11maquisyou mean whitespace isn't going to make it through all those states?
16:43.23sjansenmarket force, former market force, widely recognized mistake, removed from resume to avoid ever having to use it again.
16:43.45KeighvinRight - a decline can happen at any point.
16:43.48maquissjansen: well, a few don't make it to that second half...
16:44.09maquisC seems to be doing pretty good at not making it all the way through that decline...
16:44.13maquisC++ too
16:44.51sjansenYes, a few lucky quietly settle into a niche. At this point it is obvious what C's niche is, I'd argue that the jury is still out on C++.
16:45.15maquisyeah
16:45.35maquistries to think of other languages that have settled nicely
16:45.49maquisada is still used in some very specialized niches
16:46.01maquisalthough i'm not sure that it ever really was a market force
16:47.12KeighvinC was probably the best known surrogate for other languages to make their inroads - it was dominant for a while because it was one of the only real complete languages, but instead of becoming the defacto was used instead as a benchmark for other languages to measure off of.
16:47.14maquisout of the really major languages, it seems that C seems to be the main one that has actually remained a bit of a force... Fortran and Cobol are still used, but the community using them is waning away, from what I've seen
16:47.23sjansenIf you're going to call PHP a market force, you have to call ADA a market force too. Just different markets.
16:47.36maquissjansen: good point...
16:47.54KeighvinI think PHP is reaching the point of general awareness at best - certainly not a market force yet.
16:48.05maquisalthough, i'd argue that many more people know about php than ada
16:48.06sjansenFortran is still going strong, but mostly with engineers and scientists.
16:48.19KeighvinPascal's around there somewhere to.
16:48.22maquiscobol is still used heavily in business...
16:48.43MigsThe only language anyone needs is PHP.  The end.
16:48.49sjansenCOBOL is firmly in the "removed from resume to avoid being forced to use it" camp.
16:49.09Keighvin~lart Migs
16:49.09ibotrm -rf's Migs
16:49.14maquisbut i think that a lot of businesses are going to have a bit of a wake-up call when they start trying to replace the cobol programmers that will be retiring soon
16:49.19Jayce^digs up harleypig to teach COBOL to sjansen ...... while on shrooms
16:49.21Migs~whaleslap Keighvin
16:49.22ibotACTION beats Keighvin upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh
16:49.24goozbachI should have started a week ago to mirror debian lenny
16:49.32Keighvin~whaleblock Migs
16:49.33ibotACTION shields Migs with a freakishly huger whale named ollywag
16:49.37goozbachdebian mirror is *HUGE*
16:49.41KeighvinEr, wait...
16:49.45Keighvin~whaleblock Keighvin
16:49.46ibotACTION shields Keighvin with a freakishly huger whale named ollywag
16:49.55maquiswhaleparry Keighvin
16:49.55goozbachbigger than ollywag even
16:50.02maquis~whaleparry Keighvin
16:50.03ibotACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry Keighvin's attacks.
16:50.07sjansenNah, as longer as there are COBOL jobs there will be COBOL programmers.
16:50.11Keighvin~whalecrit maquis
16:50.12ibotACTION crits maquis with a mathematically skilled whale named Isaac for #NaN. maquis dies
16:50.15goozbach~whalethrust maquis
16:50.24maquishides
16:50.30goozbachwhalecrit! that's one I didn't know about
16:50.35maquisi didn't either
16:50.52maquis~literal whale
16:50.53ibot"whale" is "a magical creature used mainly by gnomes (c.f. Bloodmyst Isle), also by other races, to inject fear (a.k.a. ph34r) into the heart of the enemy. That is, if they aren't laughing so hard that a furious gnome has challenged them."
16:51.01KeighvinI learned the ways of whalefu back in the days when it was redbeard(2?)'s purpose in life to ~whaleslap me onjoin.
16:51.16goozbach~whalespear Keighvin
16:51.25Keighvin~whalebomb goozbach
16:51.26ibotACTION throws an explosive whale named Gunter at goozbach and hides.
16:51.34goozbach~whalenuke Keighvin
16:51.35ibotACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Keighvin with his mind powers.
16:51.53KeighvinThere's always room for escalation.
16:52.32goozbachwants to play some scorched3D
16:53.41*** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
16:53.48KeighvinAnywho, since I'm in one of those employer-dictated PHP situations I'm trying to improve the PHP environment in my own little way.
16:54.03KeighvinI'd like to present it at UTOSCON if I can get enough votes for the abstract.
16:54.10KeighvinYour help in this matter would be appreciated.
16:54.43KeighvinLink to abstract for voting is in the article: http://blog.paultomlinson.net/2009/08/torpor/
16:55.09sjansen~whaledefend sjansen
16:55.10ibotACTION encases sjansen in a hermetically sealed, protective sphere of blubber, while a muscular whale named Otto defends sjansen from all attacks
16:55.57Jayce^~whalefart sjansen
16:56.06Jayce^I think that's one that will eject you from there
16:57.13blendmaster1024does anyone know of a way to use a usb disk as a network?
16:57.52blendmaster1024like.... so that if two systems are on the diskwork, and one tries to send something..
16:58.23blendmaster1024then it arrives next time the disk is put first into to sender and then into the reciever?
16:59.14sjansenblendmaster1024: Sounds like a good general description of a virus.
16:59.54blendmaster1024only it'd be for good things, so that you could have as many systems as you want on you network with out them really being on it
17:00.06blendmaster1024this would be for large file transfers, not for (for instance) irc
17:00.44blendmaster1024i'm thinking about writing such a thing, but i want to know if it exists already.
17:02.31blendmaster1024what the heck, i'll write it anyway. i'm gonna cal it diskwork, and put it on sourceforge as soon as i have code.
17:02.37blendmaster1024call*
17:04.16goozbachsounds like a very sargun-esque project
17:04.34sjansenIs it just me, or do we have a new xbmodder/mheath blend?
17:05.24sjansen~seen Sargun
17:05.27ibotsargun is currently on #maemo (1h 1m 26s) #webos-internals (1h 1m 26s) #asterisk (1h 1m 26s) #utah (1h 1m 26s) #openmoko (1h 1m 26s), last said: '(Kidding)'.
17:08.00sjansenhttps://blogs.apache.org/infra/entry/apache_org_downtime_initial_report
17:11.30harleypigtouches #utah
17:13.22goozbachdon't know how I missed that there's a tron 2 movie...
17:13.30goozbachI think my memory is breaking
17:13.35goozbachthe trailer is awesome
17:17.26sjansenharleypig: I'm picturing something like the scene in Contact only with you instead of Jodie Foster.
17:18.13*** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
17:18.33harleypigtouches sjansen
17:19.05goozbachtouches his eyes... with acid
17:20.38harleypigtouches goozbach
17:20.42sjansenharleypig: Can't touch me. I'm still whale defended.
17:20.53sjansen~arrest harleypig
17:20.54ibothttp://harleypig.wasarrested.com
17:20.56brac[WasArrested.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News]
17:21.58sjansenUhm... well... alrighty then.
17:22.04sjansenNot quite what I was expecting.
17:22.10harleypig:D headlines says Harleypig has sex with sheep right next to Harleypig voted #1 lover ... :>
17:23.41sjansenPublic Service Announcment: _DO NOT_ click on harleypig.was.arrested.com or read anything on the page.
17:23.50sjansenscrubs his brain with acid
17:24.11harleypigMost definitely nsfw
17:25.56harleypigHey! My registration number is 69!
17:28.09Sargungoozbach, how it sargun-esque?
17:29.51harleypigtouches Sargun
17:31.39Jayce^hey, isn't he still a minor?
17:31.57harleypighastily withdraws his touch
17:32.37Sargunis not a minor, you can touch me all you want
17:32.45harleypigummm
17:33.41goozbachummmnmmm.
17:33.46goozbachdo not want
17:34.02Keighvin`man touch`
17:38.00harleypighttp://pictureisunrelated.com/2009/08/28/rickshaw-could-make-you-excited-in-pants-or-frown-in-pants/
17:39.42harleypigblame Jayce^ ... he told me #utah needed harleypigs touch
17:39.52Keighvin~blame Jayce^
17:39.53ibotACTION blames Jayce^ (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
17:39.53harleypigdoes *NOT* touch Jayce^
17:41.15Jayce^harleypig: druid healing?
17:41.40harleypiglooks around for a dwarf holding up one finger
17:42.04RyanEharleypig: just don't pull it.  Trust me, you don't want to pull a dwarf's finger.
17:43.04harleypigAfter that healing incident I don't want to go *near* a dwarfs fingers.
17:43.22Jayce^it comes to *you*
17:43.40*** join/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21)
17:45.03*** join/#utah levi (n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com)
17:48.14maquispokes her head out from under the table, trying to determine if it's safe to come out yet...
17:48.51Keighvinmaquis: it's safe, there was only discussion of small-person flatulence; no recorded events.
18:01.51maquisclimbs out, giving hp a bit of extra space
18:01.59harleypigwaits quietly for maquis to get comfortable ...
18:02.05leviWow, I have a lot of cucumber slices to eat.
18:02.27decriptorlevi: that sounds really good
18:03.46maquislevi: got any hummous?
18:04.09harleypigI parsed that as 'hit points' at first.
18:04.29Jayce^harleypig: been watching 'date my avatar' a lot lately eh?
18:04.38leviUnfortunately, the hummus got finished off yesterday.
18:04.43^Migs^is there a good flv merging utility besides mencoder?
18:05.23leviHmm, apparently Armenian cucumbers, which are what I'm actually eating, are no cucumbers at all.
18:05.40leviIt's a melon that looks and tastes likes a cucumber.
18:08.08harleypigJayce^: No ... why?
18:08.09harleypigoh
18:09.50maquislevi: interesting... what's the difference between a cucumber and a melon
18:10.00elg-chat
18:10.01bracI'm starting to stare.
18:10.11maquisalmost misspelled melon as lemon, which would've made that question pretty stupid
18:10.45harleypigI'm up here brac!
18:11.02leviBeats me. :)
18:11.07maquis-chat harleypig is
18:11.07bracharleypig is a joke about the UVLUG which can start to write a crontab to back up.
18:11.18harleypig*blink*
18:11.26harleypig-chat up maquis
18:11.26bracup maquis
18:11.36harleypig-chat maquis up
18:11.36bracmaquis up side the head with a narrative before each song. Each narrative is it's another way to handle it. At the manhattan office
18:11.43Jayce^fungus: oh man, that's a baaaad bash.org entry
18:11.52Jayce^(he tweeted http://bash.org/?896077 )
18:11.53brac[QDB: Quote #896077]
18:11.57leviAre there good ones?
18:12.09maquislevi: in my experience, most of the bad ones are good
18:12.24fungushehe
18:12.49harleypighttp://bash.org/?900148
18:12.49brac[QDB: Quote #900148]
18:31.05^Migs^I have to admit, I found this one amusing if vulgar: http://qdb.us/299439
18:31.05brac[QDB: Quote #299439]
18:33.26goozbachwho let hp open bash.org again?
18:36.58sjansen~revoke hp's bash.org access
18:36.58ibotACTION confiscates and destroys hp's bash.org access's DNRC membership certificate
18:50.51sjansenWhat's another name for path components?
18:51.37maquissjansen: like... the directories?
18:52.18sjansenI'm trying to be deliberately vague because directory implies a specific type of path.
18:52.32harleypigsjansen: node?
18:52.56goozbachpath nodes
18:53.08goozbachdelineated by the char "/"
18:53.38harleypigor '\' depending on os
18:53.47sjansenYeah, that'd be best, but it's already taken. I'm manipulating a tree given a path into it. I'm using node for, uhm... the current node of the tree.
18:54.10sjansenRight now I'm leaning toward step.
18:54.50harleypighow about node*s*
18:55.22levielement, segment, substring, etc.
18:55.29harleypignubbins
18:55.32sjansenGot it! Tree, node. Path, subpath, head, tail. Thanks all.
18:55.45sjansenOoh, element. Good one.
18:57.33sjansenWhich means I should also be using subtree instead of node.
19:01.36maquisan element is one "chunk" of the path
19:01.46maquisa subpath is one or more elements
19:01.57maquisbut not the full path
19:02.06maquisa node is one chunk of the tree
19:02.12maquisa subtree is one or more nodes
19:02.21maquisbut not the full tree
19:02.42leviThere you go.  #utah to the rescue again!
19:03.20goozbachgo maquis!
19:04.25maquisgoozbach: it's not me... it was mostly levi and sjansen...
19:04.30maquisi just rephrased what they said
20:03.12sjansenhttp://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/funny-pictures-cat-in-bonnet-is-angry.jpg
20:08.43sjansensuddenly realizes the _both_ Ubuntu and Mac OS insist on using stupid names instead of useful numbers and wonders if there's a correlation
20:09.22sjansenOf course, Microsoft tried it too, but since they only release a new version every other ice age it isn't as confusing.
20:20.53jsmithsjansen: I think there *is* a correlation there, fwiw
20:21.24levisjansen: Both OS X and Ubuntu have numbers as well as names for releases.
20:21.44sjansenAnd both communities insist on not using the numbers.
20:22.21maquissjansen: mac didn't used to use names
20:22.25maquisleast not that i knew of
20:22.30sjansenWhich is all well and good for insiders using the jargon to identify each other, but really annoying for a marginally interested observer that doesn't care enough to memorize stupid trivia.
20:22.38*** join/#utah Migs (i=Migs@205.122.50.21)
20:22.51maquispretty sure the last mac os i had on one of my boxes was just 8.1... no special name for that one that i know of
20:23.10sjansenmaquis: You haven't been paying attention. All Mac OS X releases have cat names.
20:23.19maquissjansen: i know that they do now
20:23.27maquisbut i'm saying they haven't always done that
20:23.36maquiswhen i had 8.1, my parents had a machine with 9
20:23.47maquismy imac was too old to run os9
20:24.33sjansenAll Mac OS releases from 7.1 until X were jokes.
20:24.46Jayce^sjansen: and yet it always visibly ties to a number too, so it's not exclusively feline
20:24.52sjansen7.1 non-inclusive, 7.5 inclusive
20:26.49maquis8.1 was pretty good
20:27.51levisjansen: The OS X cat names were mostly internal until Jaguar, IIRC.
20:28.32maquisi never was too fond of X when it came out... my favorite game never got ported
20:32.51sjansen8 wasn't a big improvement over 7
20:33.01sjansen9 even less so
20:36.14maquisdoesn't really remember 7 much...
20:36.46maquisi remember playing dark castle on an old mac classic with... 6?
20:37.00maquisand then i remember the IIci running 8
20:37.18maquisi'm sure at some point the IIci was running 7, but i don't remember that point much
20:37.43maquisand then, got the imac... and that was still running 8, iirc...
20:38.05maquisand then everything moved to 9...
20:38.11maquisor maybe it was the imac that ran 9
20:38.33maquisreally doesn't remember
20:39.06leviI went from 6 to X, with DOS, various Windows, and Linux in between.
20:39.35leviI wanted to pull the old Mac Plus out while visiting my parents, but I didn't get around to it.
20:42.25*** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com)
20:42.25*** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ
20:46.22sjansenhttp://imgur.com/gFrHd.png
20:50.10*** join/#utah jshipley (n=jshipley@ip67-88-113-150.z113-88-67.customer.algx.net)
21:16.43*** join/#utah snaketamer-22 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
21:28.50opapoI'm using sun virtualbox and I can't ping my router
21:29.10opapoI can ping my localhost and an adjacent machine,
21:29.19opapobut not the default gateway
21:29.32opapoWhat am I doing wrong?
21:30.43opapoI am running Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and followed the tutorial at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox/Networking
21:31.05opapoEverything looks right, but I can't ping the default gateway
21:34.18sjansenHave you made sure the gateway is within your netmask?
21:34.28sjansenI'd start by checking your routing table.
21:36.52sjansenI see you're doing bridge-based networking. I'd also check your host firewall rules.
21:36.56opapoI am using dhcp
21:39.10opapoI am using bridge-based networking
21:39.24opapoI checked my firewall and it seems open enough
21:39.39sjansenSo? Maybe the DHCP server is misconfigured. Have you double check the guest setting to make sure they're what you expect?
21:39.41opapoI can ping another computer behind the same default gateway
21:39.57sjansenBehind?
21:40.32opapoI am using an 8 port switch to connect some computers
21:40.35sjansenAs in Guest=192.168.0.1 GW=192.168.0.254 Behind=10.0.0.42 ?
21:41.07opapothe 8 port switch is attached to the gateway
21:42.00sjansenSo? That doesn't explain what you mean by "behind". It also doesn't mean that the VM and GW are on the same subnet.
21:43.36opapothere are computers with the same gateway I can ping
21:44.20opapothe vm and gw are on the same subnet
21:50.26Sargunhey, any suggestions what I should put on the list of requirements for a sysadmin?
21:51.33Sargunhttp://pastebin.com/d192ae11a
21:51.36Sargunso far that's what I've got
21:51.47Sargunsys/net admin
22:00.02sjansenYou should probably mention at least which OS(es) he'll be administrating.
22:07.11*** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
22:07.11*** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
22:21.12opapoI switched from a dynamic to static ip and it works
22:23.00tensaiSargun: it entirely depends on the specific job. for my company knowing juniper or vyatta wouldn't be requirement. Perl however would.
22:35.42*** join/#utah snaketamer-22 (n=blendmas@75-169-208-36.slkc.qwest.net)
22:42.17maquishas anyone here ever had a problem where hosts in your network that have Static IPs tend to be really slow (and often time out) while doing DNS lookup, while hosts that are using DHCP seem to work normally?
22:42.35maquisI'm guessing i got something wrong while setting up the static ip
22:42.52bmidgley2_maquis they are likely querying different servers for dns
22:42.53*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225)
22:44.35maquisbmidgley2_: hmmm how do i get them to query the same place?  (ie, how do i figure out where the dhcp guys are querying and set the static ones to use that too)
22:45.16bmidgley2_depends on the os
22:49.18goozbachmaquis: /etc/resolv.conf ?
22:50.48maquisgoozbach: ooh... that looks promising
22:51.32maquisi can see one of the not-working boxes now, but i'm not sure which of the working (laptop) boxes are turned on, so i'll have to check them tonight
23:09.04*** join/#utah CSJewell (n=Curtis@74-36-212-55.br1.tmn.ut.frontiernet.net)
23:44.51*** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@74-81-244-222.static.sdyl005.digis.net)
23:44.51*** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.