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| 04:43.31 | hyrle | Hi all - new to the room. |
| 04:57.05 | Sargun | hyrle, hi |
| 04:57.43 | hyrle | Hiya Sargun - nice to meet you. Migs introduced me to the fact that this room exists. Glad to see a Utah IRC room is alive and well. |
| 05:00.40 | Sargun | I'm not from utah |
| 05:00.45 | Sargun | as a matter afact I've never been to utah |
| 05:03.22 | hyrle | Heh heh - interesting choice of rooms then. I live in SLC |
| 05:03.41 | hyrle | It's a cool place to live - I like it, but I grew up out east. Where you from? |
| 05:07.16 | Sargun | uhm |
| 05:07.19 | Sargun | California |
| 05:07.22 | Sargun | Silicon Valley |
| 05:20.45 | hyrle | Cool. I've been to Cali but not Silicon Valley. |
| 05:20.55 | hyrle | I have a good friend who lives there tho - in Santa Clara I believe. |
| 05:21.00 | hyrle | Works for Yahoo. |
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| 05:25.13 | Sargun | Cool, I go through santa calra |
| 05:25.17 | Sargun | clara nearly daily |
| 05:25.21 | Sargun | ya-- who? |
| 05:25.31 | Sargun | you mean microsoft? |
| 05:37.24 | hyrle | His name is Brad Parker. He works for Yahoo, but yes, they are basically partners with Microsoft these days. |
| 05:37.30 | hyrle | Anyhow - I'm gonna take off - have a good one! |
| 05:38.03 | Sargun | I hate people. |
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| 05:49.40 | levi | Sargun: I hate you too. ;) |
| 06:06.43 | Migs | Who's Hyrle? |
| 06:07.25 | Migs | has absolutely zero clue who that was |
| 06:08.56 | Sargun | haha |
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| 14:12.39 | tensai | my phone is wigging out |
| 14:12.48 | tensai | keeps saying "verizon wireless" for no reason at all |
| 14:13.32 | blendmaster1024 | switch to iphone with nothing but data, then use voip over it |
| 14:13.44 | blendmaster1024 | ..or not |
| 14:13.53 | blendmaster1024 | but it's what i'm gonna do |
| 14:15.08 | tensai | yeah that ain't gonna happen for a bunch of reasons |
| 14:16.16 | blendmaster1024 | lol i know |
| 14:23.29 | jsmith | tensai: Your phone sucks anyway... and no, I don't think you should replace it with an iPhone |
| 14:24.03 | tensai | jsmith: you still sporting that nokia? |
| 14:24.21 | jsmith | tensai: Aye... but if I were you, I'd hold out for the new E72 instead |
| 14:25.06 | tensai | it's a work phone so I have little say. I certainly would not have picked a windows mobile phone. |
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| 14:52.50 | tensai | it did it again, this time with an echo. I think it played the audio clip over itself. |
| 14:53.10 | tensai | I would just reboot the phone which is of course the standard windows maneuver, but I'm curious to see where this goes |
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| 15:49.32 | maquis | urgh... win computer is *so* slow |
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| 16:40.18 | tensai | levi: your favorite group has a new site. http://windows7sins.org/ |
| 16:40.20 | brac | [Windows 7 Sins — The case against Microsoft and |
| 16:40.20 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:44.25 | levi | tensai: Oh boy... |
| 16:44.45 | levi | FSF is the PETA of the computing world. :P |
| 16:48.34 | fungus | Without passionate people, how can us moderates get the motivation to take action. |
| 16:49.08 | levi | Passion becomes self-mockery after a certain point. |
| 16:49.21 | levi | That site is unintentionally hilarious. |
| 16:49.51 | fungus | true, but those organizations serve important roles. |
| 16:50.13 | fungus | is an RMS/Animal lover |
| 16:50.22 | levi | Yes, but so do the people who mock them to keep others from taking them too seriously. :P |
| 16:50.35 | JoshH | speaking of microsoft, i got a chuckle out of this: http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/08/25/why-has-microsoft-photoshopped-this |
| 16:50.36 | fungus | Exactly, we need a balance |
| 16:50.37 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@dhcp209.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:51.01 | sjansen | So apparently Darl McBride is being accused of fraud. His brother is defending him. |
| 16:51.12 | JoshH | and this too: http://homepage.mac.com/aleksivic/.Pictures/humor/spotTheBusey.jpg |
| 16:51.47 | fungus | JoshH: lol |
| 16:52.05 | sjansen | I predict things will not turn out well for Darl. My impression of his brother, Kevin, was not a good one. He seemed incompetent. Not a characteristic one looks for in a lawyer. |
| 16:52.40 | JoshH | the polish site shows the black guy now |
| 16:54.03 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 16:54.03 | tensai | JoshH: they used photoshop to achieve a certain racial view. how is that different from when they did the photoshoot and specifically chose a woman, an oriental guy and a black guy? |
| 16:55.24 | tensai | that replacement guy's lighting is all wrong. and his neck makes me cringe. looks painful. |
| 16:56.39 | JoshH | tensai: oriental isn't a PC term anymore |
| 16:57.14 | tensai | hmm. I never got the memo. |
| 16:57.21 | sjansen | tensai: The Polish racial view was unacceptable. The original view as inclusive. You racist commie pig dog fascist hippie jerk. |
| 17:02.41 | Sargun | Hm, corporate politics, it's all sorts of fun stuff. |
| 17:03.07 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:03.54 | elg | where do we contribute to the "lynch darl" fund? |
| 17:08.31 | tensai | elg: send it to me and I'll make sure it gets there |
| 17:10.48 | maquis | sjansen: where'd you see that he's being accused of fraud? |
| 17:10.59 | maquis | elg: i'll join that too |
| 17:11.27 | sjansen | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090824142203182 <-- Second half of Update 5 |
| 17:11.53 | sjansen | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090819204738291 |
| 17:20.18 | maquis | interesting |
| 17:20.39 | maquis | can't read legalese very well, but darl with an incompetent lawyer sounds like the best way to see him |
| 17:25.38 | harleypig | I'm trying to update my hardy server to jaunty, but do-release-upgrade reports 'No new release found'. I know I can just replace all occurrences of hardy with jaunty in the apt.source and related files, but I'd rather avoid that if possible. |
| 17:29.36 | tensai | harleypig: can you load http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release |
| 17:30.01 | harleypig | onn the server? |
| 17:30.14 | tensai | yeah from the box you want to upgrade |
| 17:30.35 | harleypig | yes, it loads in elinks |
| 17:31.03 | harleypig | cat /etc/*release shows 8.04 |
| 17:31.29 | tensai | I've never used do-release-upgrade before so I'm shooting from the hip here |
| 17:31.40 | harleypig | hmmm ... can I manually download the UpgradeTool and use that? |
| 17:31.47 | tensai | it looks like you could download the upgrade app and run it manually |
| 17:31.49 | tensai | http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/0.111.8/jaunty.tar.gz |
| 17:31.54 | elg | http://xkcd.com/627/ |
| 17:31.55 | brac | [xkcd - A Webcomic - Tech Support Cheat Sheet] |
| 17:32.11 | harleypig | :> giving it a shot. |
| 17:32.19 | harleypig | elg: :> Yeah, I was just thinking of that. |
| 17:32.49 | harleypig | dammit ... I hate tarballs that don't create a single top level directory ... |
| 17:33.18 | tensai | oh, I should have mentioned that |
| 17:34.21 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:36.03 | harleypig | feh .. it wants to use a gui |
| 17:36.29 | Sargun | GUIs are evil |
| 17:37.31 | harleypig | The README is useless |
| 17:41.40 | harleypig | FEH FEH FEH |
| 17:41.59 | harleypig | So I guess s/hardy/jaunty/g |
| 17:42.21 | tensai | that's how I've done my upgrades and so far it's worked |
| 17:42.43 | maquis | tensai: "that" being which? s/hardy/jaunty/g or the upgrade tool? |
| 17:43.22 | tensai | changing the release name in sources.list |
| 17:43.26 | harleypig | tensai: I've usually had to go through and fix one ore two major items. |
| 17:43.41 | harleypig | which is why I wanted to avoid it this time. |
| 17:43.57 | tensai | I guess there was one that was a pain in the butt. kde fought me the whole way. |
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| 17:44.14 | tensai | kept trying to uninstall itself. maybe it was a sign. |
| 17:47.08 | harleypig | damn ... aptitude -f safe-upgrade shows a crapton of packages to update ... makes me nervous |
| 17:48.00 | harleypig | 659 packages to be upgraded. |
| 17:48.20 | harleypig | crosses his fingers and toes and presses 'Y<ENTER>' |
| 18:00.02 | Heartsbane | harleypig: if you are upgrading from hardy to jaunty the suggested method is hardy ->intrepid ->jaunty |
| 18:01.09 | Heartsbane | it is only recommended to skip releases on LTS releases |
| 18:03.02 | harleypig | Heartsbane: *now* you tell me. |
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| 18:04.01 | harleypig | it was still downloading ... I stopped it and I'll do that. thansk |
| 18:04.21 | Heartsbane | Hey I been busy @ werq |
| 18:04.49 | Heartsbane | It is supposed to be my day off, I am not even supposed to be here today |
| 18:05.10 | Heartsbane | waits for the "Easy there Dante" |
| 18:05.49 | Heartsbane | I guess no one remembers Clerks |
| 18:06.13 | Jayce^ | oh wait, were we supposed to be paying attention to you Heartsbane? |
| 18:06.17 | Jayce^ | :-p |
| 18:06.43 | Heartsbane | no ... I haven't all been successful at making that a rule yet |
| 18:07.02 | Heartsbane | s/haven't/haven't at/g |
| 18:09.01 | maquis | harleypig: what's the difference between safe-upgrade and upgrade? |
| 18:10.04 | tensai | maquis: 5 characters |
| 18:10.24 | Heartsbane | maquis: in ubuntu 'upgrade' was changed to 'safe-upgrade' and 'dist-upgrade' is not 'full-upgrade' |
| 18:10.49 | Heartsbane | there is a email thread ... none of which had good reasons IMO |
| 18:11.02 | maquis | uh...ok |
| 18:11.07 | peno | "because we wanted to" |
| 18:11.29 | maquis | wants to just make sure that she's not doing stupid stuff |
| 18:11.34 | Heartsbane | it wasn't broke ... it didn't need to be fixed Debian had a good way already |
| 18:12.34 | Heartsbane | and just for the record, Peno loves Macs |
| 18:12.53 | tensai | I still use upgrade and dist-upgrade |
| 18:14.16 | sontek | Heartsbane: I miss you |
| 18:14.22 | sjansen | ~ignore Heartsbane |
| 18:14.23 | ibot | ACTION sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, Heartsbane!" |
| 18:14.39 | tensai | I just migrated a whole domain and all its email, from an old raq server to a new cpanel system. but it was easy. /too/ easy. |
| 18:14.47 | Sargun | loves zimbra |
| 18:14.50 | tensai | now I'm paranoid that I missed something major |
| 18:14.54 | Sargun | I hope Yahoo doesn't kill them :-( |
| 18:15.25 | tensai | Sargun: they're too busy trying to kill the whole company. can't focus on murdering a single element. |
| 18:15.28 | Heartsbane | tensai: ya it is just in 7.10 and 8.04 it gave a annoying reminder message looks like it has been done away with in 9.04 |
| 18:16.08 | jsmith | Sargun: It's not Yahoo that'll kill Zimbra... it's Microsoft |
| 18:16.20 | maquis | tensai: easy is not always good |
| 18:16.27 | Sargun | jsmith, how? by mucking around with outlook's protocol? |
| 18:16.28 | Heartsbane | sontek: thanks... you should come back Utah needs another voice of hostility, peno isn't loud enough |
| 18:16.36 | maquis | it always scares me when something works correctly on the first try |
| 18:16.53 | tensai | maquis: exactly the moment I'm having here. gotta triple check all my work. |
| 18:17.00 | maquis | :) |
| 18:17.08 | jsmith | Sargun: Buy buying/partnering with/strongarming Yahoo |
| 18:17.19 | tensai | this isn't the first time I've made this migration, so maybe I am just that good |
| 18:17.24 | jsmith | s/Buy buy/By buy/ |
| 18:17.36 | sontek | Heartsbane: He doesn't have to say it, those evil grins he gets are enough. |
| 18:18.05 | Heartsbane | :) |
| 18:18.27 | sontek | Florida kind of sucks, but I get to scuba dive a lot more now |
| 18:18.45 | jsmith | sontek: Diving with the alligators... gotta love that :-p |
| 18:19.21 | sontek | jsmith: haha, You just have to worry about them when getting in and out, they don't follow you down ;) |
| 18:19.42 | Heartsbane | mpt yet |
| 18:19.56 | Heartsbane | s/mpt/not/ |
| 18:21.32 | Jayce^ | ah irony.. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,543180,00.html |
| 18:22.21 | tensai | aha! found something major I missed. that's more like it. |
| 18:22.50 | Sargun | tensai, what was it? |
| 18:23.52 | tensai | Sargun: quotas are specified in bytes but I've got them entered as if they were megabytes |
| 18:24.01 | tensai | so the users only get 50 bytes of storage :S |
| 18:24.07 | Sargun | tensai, ahaha |
| 18:24.32 | elg | isn't that enough? |
| 18:25.31 | Migs | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,543180,00.html |
| 18:25.32 | levi | 50 bytes should be enough for anybody! |
| 18:25.51 | Migs | oops |
| 18:25.55 | levi | I'd like to see them download any trojans with that little storage. :) |
| 18:26.00 | tensai | an empty mailbox is 502 bytes, so yeah probably not |
| 18:26.29 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@unwired-173.guest.inscc.utah.edu) |
| 18:26.30 | levi | voila, secure system. :) |
| 18:26.39 | findlay | indeed |
| 18:27.13 | levi | Hi, findlay |
| 18:27.40 | findlay | yesterday I used my computer throughout the day and when I got home in the evening I still had .75 of the battery left |
| 18:27.59 | levi | This is your new netbook thingy? |
| 18:28.03 | findlay | yes |
| 18:28.29 | maquis | findlay: which netbook? |
| 18:28.41 | findlay | it's actually about the same size as one of those super expensive toshiba deals |
| 18:29.44 | findlay | which I both coveted (because its size was what I wanted) and hated (because it was not really in a format or price that was acceptable) |
| 18:30.08 | levi | So, we know it's *not* a toshiba. |
| 18:30.17 | maquis | yeah... |
| 18:30.24 | levi | Are you going to keep us guessing? :) |
| 18:30.29 | maquis | let's see if we can narrow anything else down first.. :P |
| 18:30.48 | findlay | maquis: eeepc 1005HA-PU1X-BK |
| 18:30.56 | maquis | findlay: cool |
| 18:31.26 | findlay | came with xp, but the first thing I did was install eeebuntu |
| 18:31.51 | findlay | I don't know how anyone could want to use xp these days |
| 18:32.03 | findlay | says with an air of sophistication |
| 18:32.36 | findlay | the only linux-preloaded netbooks have solid state storage |
| 18:32.40 | findlay | generally |
| 18:32.49 | findlay | this one has a 180 GB drive |
| 18:34.18 | levi | Yeah, XP is so uncool now. It's all about Windows 7! |
| 18:34.36 | levi | Linux is for nerds! ;P |
| 18:34.41 | maquis | doesn't understand anyone putting windows on a netbook |
| 18:34.45 | maquis | must slow it down like crazy |
| 18:34.58 | maquis | but... then again, too many people who don't want to learn something new |
| 18:35.06 | tensai | maquis: if it's as fun as windows on a phone, I'll pass |
| 18:35.08 | levi | No more than a full Ubuntu install, I'm sure. |
| 18:35.12 | findlay | maquis: it's alarming how many netbooks have been returned because they didn't run windows |
| 18:35.19 | maquis | findlay: yeah... i know |
| 18:35.32 | maquis | people don't want to try something different |
| 18:35.35 | findlay | people just expect to be able to load their old glory days gaming programs |
| 18:35.37 | maquis | even when its better |
| 18:35.50 | findlay | levi: truly |
| 18:35.57 | maquis | would rather have a nice minimal install on a vista-ready box and enjoy the extra-headroom |
| 18:36.18 | findlay | will be loading gentoo+fluxbox on here soon |
| 18:36.24 | findlay | if I ever have time |
| 18:36.31 | levi | Why would you do that?! |
| 18:36.45 | levi | Maybe if you have a real computer doing the compiling for you. :P |
| 18:36.51 | findlay | sorry, I meant gentoo+enlightenment |
| 18:37.10 | levi | *ahem*ricer!*ahem* |
| 18:37.18 | findlay | compilation is a small price to pay for the flexibility gentoo gives you |
| 18:37.56 | maquis | is tempted to set up a gentoo box again on a spare machine someplace |
| 18:38.22 | levi | All the flexibility gentoo gives you is a huge price to pay when you actually have a life, because then it sucks it back away as you endlessly tweak meaningless crap. |
| 18:39.16 | findlay | levi: but it's fun |
| 18:39.18 | findlay | :) |
| 18:39.23 | levi | I thought you were busy now. :) |
| 18:39.29 | findlay | yeah, you're right |
| 18:39.36 | levi | Plus you have a wife. |
| 18:40.03 | findlay | I'll let ubuntu suck a few more milliamps out of my battery than gentoo for now |
| 18:40.52 | findlay | the display on this thing is awesome |
| 18:41.21 | maquis | findlay: how's the keyboard? |
| 18:41.55 | levi | I stuck the RC of Windows 7 on my T42p last night. Still doesn't support a bunch of the hardware (including wireless) until you get online and do an update, but it works pretty well. |
| 18:41.59 | findlay | maquis: big enough |
| 18:41.59 | maquis | been looking at an hp mini for a bit, but curious about how some of the other netbooks are comparing |
| 18:42.22 | maquis | levi: any particular reason why you tried that? |
| 18:42.33 | maquis | does it slow the box down significantly? |
| 18:42.37 | findlay | maquis: I was going to go with the dell, but it didn't have a hdd |
| 18:42.52 | maquis | see, scott wants ssd |
| 18:42.52 | Sargun | levi, I don't have a life. |
| 18:42.53 | levi | I had the previous preview release of Windows 7 on there. |
| 18:42.53 | maquis | so... |
| 18:43.02 | levi | Sargun: Good for you. |
| 18:43.11 | Sargun | Gentoo works for me. |
| 18:43.25 | findlay | levi: see, gentoo is for people like what I used to be, and Sargun |
| 18:43.27 | levi | It worked for me, too; it just sucked up a lot of time. |
| 18:43.43 | findlay | ~gentoo Sargun |
| 18:43.44 | ibot | ACTION recompiles Sargun again |
| 18:43.51 | levi | Linux, in general, sucks up a lot of time. |
| 18:43.57 | findlay | that's true |
| 18:43.59 | Sargun | levi, depends on what you're doing |
| 18:44.03 | maquis | levi: definitely true |
| 18:44.14 | elg | taking over the world, in general, sucks up a lot of time |
| 18:44.21 | levi | At least if you start tweaking it. Then you get sucked into fixing the problems your tweaking caused, etc. |
| 18:44.23 | maquis | i like messing around with making it do crazy things, which definitely takes up time |
| 18:44.24 | findlay | levi: I believe it's because linux encourages a 'time sucking' culture |
| 18:44.42 | levi | I liked doing that too. It was fun. I've moved on. |
| 18:45.03 | findlay | now levi has time |
| 18:45.14 | findlay | for chess |
| 18:45.21 | findlay | and jellybean anthropology |
| 18:45.35 | levi | Now I mostly just *use* it however the distribution configured it, though lately I got sucked into tweaking again to try to undo some of the damage upgrading Ubuntu did. |
| 18:45.48 | findlay | has to go to class now |
| 18:46.30 | levi | I probably just need to reinstall Hardy from scratch, since I think it was the last version that supported all the hardware correctly. |
| 18:47.05 | levi | Linux sucks on laptops unless you get lucky with your hardware or pick it specifically for Linux support. |
| 18:49.03 | levi | You very often get broken hardware support, poor battery life, hot running, slower video performance, etc. |
| 18:50.06 | levi | Linux is way more at home on servers, where the people who are paid to develop it are paid to develop it. :) |
| 18:52.58 | maquis | i've found it works nicely on thinkpads |
| 18:53.16 | tensai | maquis: my sister-in-law has an asus aspire one and loves it |
| 18:53.33 | levi | It worked nicely on mine until ATI stopped supporting the video driver for Linux. |
| 18:53.43 | maquis | tensai: i'm actually quite fond of the linux distro that the asus aspire comes with |
| 18:53.47 | tensai | I tried it out a bit and it was nice. I'm still not sure if I could live with the small screen |
| 18:54.04 | tensai | maquis: her's has xp so I can't comment |
| 18:54.05 | maquis | i think it's nice for a simple linux distro that would be simple for someone to pick-up |
| 18:54.10 | tensai | s/her's/hers/ |
| 18:54.27 | maquis | the box we got with a broken screen was an aspire one |
| 18:54.35 | tensai | I got my son a windows95 laptop and it amazingly still works |
| 18:54.43 | maquis | lol |
| 18:55.30 | tensai | but now he wants internet and there's no way I'm putting a win95 computer on the internet |
| 18:57.10 | blendmaster1024 | lol |
| 18:57.25 | blendmaster1024 | put linux on it.. duh |
| 18:57.41 | blendmaster1024 | dual boot if you need |
| 18:58.09 | maquis | tensai: out of curiosity, why did you go with win for his computer? school compatibility? or just general? |
| 18:59.06 | tensai | maquis: it was an old abandoned laptop I found. it is what it is. |
| 18:59.40 | tensai | no cd drive, no network card. I'm not loading linux via stacks of floppy disks. |
| 18:59.59 | maquis | no usb either, i'm guessing |
| 19:00.09 | tensai | definitely not |
| 19:00.36 | tensai | maybe someday I'll try but for now it's not a priority |
| 19:00.46 | maquis | yeah |
| 19:00.55 | tensai | it does have card slots but I dunno if the net cards I have will work |
| 19:01.44 | maquis | ah |
| 19:02.17 | maquis | i'm guessing callie's probably going to end up with an olpc when she's really little, and an old laptop with linux later on as she gets older |
| 19:06.26 | tensai | I decided not to give MS any more of my money when they came out with their activation scheme for XP. I'm just not into that. |
| 19:07.09 | tensai | so for the near future it looks like all my devices will be linux. but that's really not as hard as it used to be. |
| 19:07.32 | maquis | yeah... i have the same general view on stuff |
| 19:08.04 | maquis | just not really sure how linux plays with school stuff |
| 19:08.45 | maquis | as long as we print stuff out at home, it should be fine, but if she has to bring something in-progress home from school, i'm not sure how well it'll interact... |
| 19:08.52 | maquis | granted, that's all a few years down the road still :P |
| 19:08.53 | tensai | maquis: as of the 1st grade I've not found any problems. my son has no problems adapting from his windows systems at school. |
| 19:09.03 | maquis | tensai: that's good |
| 19:10.42 | maquis | i figure for the first 2-3 years, though, an olpc will be the best laptop for her... cheap, hard-to-break, brightly colored, and comes with a lot of little-kid's programs pre-installed |
| 19:10.43 | tensai | I have had some problems with games he's wanted or received as gifts. some work fine under wine (dinosaur atlas, dora the explorer) but some just fail. |
| 19:12.16 | levi | maquis: What do you mean by the 'first 2-3 years'? |
| 19:12.34 | levi | Of life, or school? |
| 19:12.45 | sjansen | My boss has had problems because his daughter in Jr. High was given homework that required Office. |
| 19:13.17 | tensai | it's no different from when I was in school and Word Perfect was the defacto standard |
| 19:13.35 | sjansen | what a 7th grade teacher is doing requiring presentation created with Powerpoint is beyond me, but he had to deal with it. |
| 19:13.51 | sjansen | It is different. You weren't expected to do it at home. |
| 19:14.27 | tensai | nope, not different |
| 19:15.08 | tensai | tries to get sjansen riled up |
| 19:15.29 | sjansen | ~fart tensai |
| 19:15.30 | ibot | ACTION farts in tensai's general direction |
| 19:15.34 | maquis | levi: of life |
| 19:16.09 | maquis | sjansen: i had to do power-point presentations all the time around that age |
| 19:16.39 | maquis | and yeah, they were created at home |
| 19:16.46 | levi | I'm not sure what you expect a 0-3 year old kid to do with a laptop except drool on it, pull the keys off, and otherwise damage it. :) |
| 19:17.13 | maquis | levi: they like trying to play with it (trust me... i've babysat lots of 2-year-olds who wanted to play with laptops)... |
| 19:17.19 | maquis | that's why i think the olpc is pretty good |
| 19:17.34 | levi | Sure they like to play with them... by pulling off the keys. |
| 19:17.37 | maquis | it can actually be submerged in water and still work |
| 19:17.44 | maquis | and there aren't separate keys to pull off |
| 19:17.56 | tensai | my 1 year-old loves my cell phone, but that doesn't imply it's a good toy for her |
| 19:17.56 | maquis | it's intended for young children |
| 19:18.06 | levi | My kids just don't get to touch the computers. |
| 19:18.28 | maquis | tensai: sure... but if you had one that was durable, where she couldn't hurt herself or destroy the phone, would you let her play with it? |
| 19:18.50 | levi | There will be plenty of time for them to play with computers when they're older. |
| 19:19.00 | tensai | maquis: yes. they're called old cell phones and I have a stack of them. or did, I think I threw them away. |
| 19:19.37 | tensai | mine start actually using the computer at about 4. playing tuxpaint, etc. |
| 19:19.38 | maquis | tensai: yeah... same thing here... the olpc is about as safe of a computer as i can think of, and if she somehow does manage to destroy it, it's not a major loss to me |
| 19:20.10 | tensai | I can think of a better use for $200 |
| 19:20.26 | maquis | tensai: we've got a few olpcs lying around, some of which are hacked for other purposes |
| 19:20.29 | levi | We got a leapfrog thingy from a relative for free. The kids play with that. |
| 19:21.28 | tensai | levi: we've got a couple of those. they seem to lose interest fairly quickly (3-6 months). |
| 19:21.52 | tensai | they're nice in the car. keep the kid busy for 30 minutes or so. |
| 19:22.30 | levi | We have a 19" TV in the van now with a DVD player built-in. Keeps the kids occupied pretty much all day on road trips. ;) |
| 19:23.20 | sjansen | Nice. Get 'em hooked young. |
| 19:23.33 | sjansen | Do you have a snow cone dispenser too? |
| 19:24.45 | tensai | levi: we got a 9" portable player (with divx support) and that's been *very* nice |
| 19:25.21 | levi | The 19" was only $230, and came with a 12v car power supply. |
| 19:25.32 | levi | Probably doesn't do divx, but I don't really care about that. |
| 19:26.23 | tensai | I like to make mixes. 4-5 movies on a disk means I don't have to unmount the crazy thing every hour. |
| 19:26.40 | tensai | and I can export shows from mythtv |
| 19:27.32 | levi | The TV is mounted to the back of the driver's seat, and the passenger can easily eject the discs and swap them. |
| 19:28.25 | tensai | ours is a little tough to get into |
| 19:28.55 | levi | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4544638&csid=ITD |
| 19:28.57 | brac | [Naxa NX556 19" Widescreen LCD with DVD Player - 720p, 1440x900, 500:1 Native, 16:10, HDMI at TigerDirect.com] |
| 19:30.19 | tensai | levi: it has an atsc tuner? |
| 19:30.24 | levi | Yup. |
| 19:31.11 | tensai | that ain't bad. might need one of those for my room. |
| 19:31.51 | levi | I haven't spent much time evaluating video quality, but it looked pretty good while playing Fellowship of the Ring. |
| 19:33.19 | levi | It's got standard VESA holes on the back for mounting, and the base is removable. |
| 19:34.02 | maquis | always read on road trips |
| 19:34.20 | tensai | that's tough for a 4 year-old |
| 19:34.35 | maquis | tries to remember... |
| 19:34.40 | maquis | what year is kindergarten? |
| 19:34.55 | levi | I did too, but my kids can't read yet. They do spend a good bit of time playing with coloring books and toys, but having a video on while they do that keeps them happy. |
| 19:35.17 | tensai | maquis: 5 |
| 19:35.18 | rsimpkins | Hrm, for some reason I missed the news that Hans Reiser led police to his wife's body, until now. |
| 19:35.35 | rsimpkins | I guess I should read the news more or something. |
| 19:35.40 | levi | Yeah, that was part of a bargain or something. |
| 19:35.54 | maquis | started novels on my own in kindergarten... |
| 19:36.27 | maquis | pretty sure we didn't do any long road trips til i was 6 or 7, though |
| 19:36.27 | rsimpkins | I use reiserfs for a backup partition - it works very well for that kind of workload. |
| 19:36.42 | maquis | doesn't like tv, and wants to keep the kids mostly tv free if possible |
| 19:36.45 | tensai | rsimpkins: but now you have to be careful that it doesn't kill your wife. that's why I've moved everything over to ext3. |
| 19:36.50 | tensai | you just can't be too safe these days |
| 19:36.55 | rsimpkins | tensai: lol |
| 19:37.08 | rsimpkins | I think ext3 is more likley to kill someone. |
| 19:37.29 | tensai | or to cause me to kill someone :) |
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| 19:44.51 | sjansen | trust ext3 _much_ more than reiserfs |
| 19:45.27 | sjansen | reiserfs is too sensitive to hardware failure |
| 19:51.21 | goozbach | anyone know how to get JFS working on Centos 5.3? |
| 19:55.13 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> http://utos.org/irc | Log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2009 Registration is open - http://sn.im/utos-reg | UTOSC Call for Papers ends Aug 27 | YAGNI |
| 20:01.50 | rsimpkins | goozbach: Yes. |
| 20:01.58 | rsimpkins | goozbach: Use the centosplus repo. |
| 20:02.05 | rsimpkins | It will make life very much better. |
| 20:07.33 | goozbach | centosplus |
| 20:07.36 | goozbach | gotcha |
| 20:09.40 | goozbach | wonder why I've never heard of plus |
| 20:09.42 | goozbach | ... |
| 20:09.59 | jsmith | goozbach: Where have you been? |
| 20:10.04 | jsmith | goozbach: Hiding under a rock? |
| 20:10.05 | goozbach | no idea |
| 20:10.08 | jsmith | ducks |
| 20:10.14 | goozbach | throws his rock |
| 20:10.19 | Sargun | My network interface in CentOS (802.3ad) takes like 20 minutes to come up, any ideas? |
| 20:11.05 | jsmith | goozbach: Hence the reason I (pre-emptively) ducked |
| 20:11.20 | jsmith | Sargun: Yowsers... problem with auto-negotiation with your switch, maybe? |
| 20:12.39 | tensai | Sargun: switch running spanning tree? |
| 20:13.04 | Sargun | Nevermind, I found the problem |
| 20:13.12 | Sargun | tensai, why would spanning tree cause problems with it? |
| 20:13.31 | Sargun | the file /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth1, had the line DEVICE=eth0 |
| 20:13.39 | tensai | spanning tree has to test for loops. it can take a while. |
| 20:14.19 | Sargun | tensai, RSTP, but RSTP shouldn't get mad at a stub, and take so long in 802.3ad |
| 20:14.27 | Sargun | not 20 minutes |
| 20:14.40 | Sargun | if your RSTP/STP stuffs is taking 20 minutes...you have bigger problems I think |
| 20:15.22 | tensai | well, yes. I'm just making suggestions |
| 20:15.35 | Sargun | Anyways, that was an awfully stupid problem. |
| 20:15.52 | Sargun | I feel like a dunce |
| 20:15.55 | goozbach | do tell |
| 20:16.06 | goozbach | eth1 != eth0 |
| 20:16.08 | Sargun | goozbach, scroll back. |
| 20:16.10 | goozbach | I see |
| 20:16.31 | Sargun | goozbach, weirdest cause ever though. You'd think that it would just...break gracefully. |
| 20:16.55 | tensai | Sargun: trust me, everybody here has done something at least that dumb and probably dumber |
| 20:17.26 | elg | any autotools gurus want to tell me what I should do to cause autoheader to stuff it? |
| 20:17.34 | elg | autoheader: warning: missing template: HAVE_GETTIMEOFDAY |
| 20:17.34 | elg | autoheader: Use AC_DEFINE([HAVE_GETTIMEOFDAY], [], [Description]) |
| 20:17.45 | elg | i do have gettimeofday |
| 20:17.53 | elg | in configure.ac |
| 20:17.54 | elg | AC_CHECK_FUNCS([gettimeofday,memset]) |
| 20:18.16 | Sargun | tensai, Well, I spent an hour debugging it. |
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| 20:22.42 | maquis | has done something at least that dumb... |
| 20:25.52 | Sargun | LVM on CentOS is slow, I wonder why |
| 20:30.08 | levi | maquis: We kind of wanted our kids to have little TV too, but that didn't work out so well. |
| 20:30.24 | maquis | levi: good to know |
| 20:30.41 | maquis | i've heard from people that all my ideas about parenting will probably get tossed out the window once we have kids... |
| 20:30.47 | maquis | but hey... it's nice to have ideas, right? |
| 20:30.49 | levi | All too true. :) |
| 20:31.24 | maquis | not having a tv might help somewhat, though... |
| 20:31.48 | levi | It might. |
| 20:31.50 | Migs | uh |
| 20:31.58 | Migs | why don't you want a TV? |
| 20:32.03 | Migs | it's like a third parent |
| 20:32.14 | Migs | not to mention much cooler than all the lame baby toys out there |
| 20:32.34 | maquis | Migs: because i'm not a big fan of what the media likes to teach... |
| 20:32.55 | levi | PBS kids programming is not too bad. |
| 20:32.57 | Migs | Then leave it on Noggin |
| 20:33.00 | Migs | yeah, or PBS Kids |
| 20:33.10 | Migs | Just have them watch Yo Gabba Gabba all day |
| 20:33.14 | maquis | Migs: probably has something to do with how i was raised. my parents had tv, but i only was ever allowed 1 hour per week until i was in middle/high school |
| 20:33.31 | Migs | my kids have a TV in their room, but no cable |
| 20:33.39 | Migs | they can only watch movies on it |
| 20:34.08 | Migs | our new baby always was drawn to the TV |
| 20:34.38 | maquis | i didn't feel like i was missing out on anything, and instead, i spent most of my time reading and stuff |
| 20:34.39 | Migs | Like, right from the beginning, even when we weren't trying to show her the TV |
| 20:34.39 | levi | I watched a lot of TV growing up in certain phases of my life, but I still read a lot. |
| 20:35.03 | Migs | movies > books |
| 20:35.03 | maquis | Migs: i disagree... i don't like movies or tv |
| 20:35.04 | Migs | movies have cinematography, sound effects, visuals, actors, professional musical scores... |
| 20:35.04 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com) |
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| 20:35.05 | Migs | books usually don't even have dumb ol' pictures |
| 20:35.18 | maquis | i'd much rather read a book than view a movie with the same story |
| 20:35.18 | Migs | and they take, like, 20 times longer to read than watching the equivalent movie |
| 20:35.25 | maquis | and the ones i've seen and read, i generally like the book way better |
| 20:35.26 | Sargun | maquis, you didn't enjoy office space? |
| 20:35.29 | Migs | well, your opinion is blatantly wrong |
| 20:35.34 | maquis | Sargun: never seen it |
| 20:35.39 | Sargun | maquis, wow... |
| 20:35.41 | maquis | Migs: obviously |
| 20:35.42 | Migs | how can you like books better than movies? |
| 20:35.49 | Migs | books have NONE of the aforementioned advantages |
| 20:35.49 | maquis | Migs: they're cool |
| 20:35.52 | maquis | :P |
| 20:36.07 | Migs | well yeah, books are cool and all. I get that. But in no way, shape, or form are they a better medium than movies. |
| 20:36.20 | maquis | Migs: depends on the goal |
| 20:36.29 | maquis | for me, books are better |
| 20:36.45 | Migs | What's lame is when some people think they're more intelligent because they prefer books over movies. Not saying you do, but I hear that a lot. |
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| 20:37.09 | Migs | "You saw the movie? PFFT, the book is better than the movie!" then they rant off a list of pointless reasons why |
| 20:37.22 | maquis | Migs: i don't think that's true... i've seen some cases where it was true, and some cases where it was false |
| 20:37.29 | Migs | Books don't have multimillion-dollar budgets |
| 20:37.37 | maquis | i really haven't seen any situations where i liked a movie version of a book better than the book itself |
| 20:37.38 | Migs | Name one example of each |
| 20:37.58 | Migs | Maybe I just don't have an imagination |
| 20:38.00 | maquis | Migs: i mean of people who are more intelligent because of books / movies |
| 20:38.06 | Migs | okay |
| 20:38.10 | maquis | (what i've seen examples of both) |
| 20:38.26 | levi | Speaking of books, I'm listening to The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch on my iPod. |
| 20:38.41 | levi | Checked the e-audiobook out from the library online. |
| 20:38.54 | Migs | I like audiobooks, because I can do that on the go. I don't waste my time sitting in a chair squinting at a book. |
| 20:39.09 | maquis | heh... i suck at audiobooks. i don't have the attention span |
| 20:39.16 | maquis | i am *not* an audio learner |
| 20:39.29 | levi | I can only listen to them in the car. |
| 20:39.51 | maquis | my mom loves audiobooks, and makes it through books *way* faster than i do as a result... she listens while doing other stuff |
| 20:40.05 | maquis | i've tried a number of times, and the next day, i can't remember what happened |
| 20:40.07 | levi | Yeah, I'll probably listen while mowing the lawn this evening. |
| 20:41.11 | maquis | i'm the same way with music, a lot of the time. i'll turn on music while doing something, listen to it for a bit, and within 10 minutes, i don't even realize the music is still goinjg, and i can't remember what the previous song was |
| 20:42.09 | Migs | Worst audiobooks I've ever listened to were Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series |
| 20:42.15 | Migs | great stories, but NOT in audiobook form |
| 20:42.21 | maquis | interesting |
| 20:42.25 | maquis | i've heard those are great books |
| 20:42.33 | levi | Migs: Might be better if they were abridged. |
| 20:42.48 | Migs | I only made it halfway through book 4 before I got tired of having to listen to EVERY detail of what the characters were eating in the inns, the mashed potatos, the plump waitresses, etc. etc. |
| 20:42.54 | Migs | yes, they NEED to be abridged |
| 20:43.07 | Migs | If you're reading a paper book, you can at least skim through those parts |
| 20:43.13 | levi | They need serious abridging even in book form. |
| 20:43.26 | Migs | maquis: They ARE great books |
| 20:43.32 | Migs | Like I said, NOT in audiobook form, though |
| 20:43.36 | levi | I'm curious how Brandon Sanderson's final volume(s) will turn out. |
| 20:43.39 | maquis | Migs: cool |
| 20:43.40 | Migs | I also listened to a bunch of the Discworld novels in audiobook form |
| 20:44.02 | Migs | Those are great as audiobooks. Each one only takes about an hour, so back when I had a grunt work job that didn't require thinking, I could listen to a book a day |
| 20:44.06 | Migs | er |
| 20:44.09 | levi | Wheel of Time is a cool story, but the books (especially the later ones) are not great. |
| 20:44.10 | Migs | *each one only takes about 8 hours |
| 20:44.44 | levi | On the other hand, I watched The Colour of Magic on TV, and it DRAGGED. |
| 20:45.33 | maquis | i heard most of the early HP books on audiobook. they were well done, but I wish I remembered them better. after book 4, I finally went and bought the actual book and read it instead of listening to my mom's copy of the audiobook. |
| 20:45.35 | Migs | okay don't spoil that, I just got it in Neflix |
| 20:45.38 | Jayce^ | levi: the last book finally started getting back on track, and I think Sanderson should do a good job finishing the series |
| 20:45.41 | Migs | *from Netflix |
| 20:45.53 | maquis | i have to say, though, the HP books were some of the better audiobooks i've seen |
| 20:45.58 | tensai | any opinions or comments on conduit for gnome? |
| 20:46.06 | maquis | i recently got my mom hooked on librevox, though, so she's quite happy :P |
| 20:46.40 | maquis | she was looking at an audiobook of the count of monte cristo on amazon, but we only had it for 89$ |
| 20:46.43 | levi | Migs: It wasn't terrible; I enjoyed it, but it was really slow and not quite funny enough. |
| 20:46.45 | Migs | I have over 1000 audiobooks in our collection here |
| 20:46.56 | Migs | it's so awesome |
| 20:47.00 | Migs | I wish I had to listen to them like i used to |
| 20:47.36 | Migs | I don't like how Rincewind is portrayed as an old wizard |
| 20:47.39 | Migs | I always thought of him as younger |
| 20:48.21 | tensai | maquis: you do have to admit you're really out of the loop on most pop culture, and that probably stems from your lack of tv watching. |
| 20:48.30 | tensai | maquis: now whether that's a bad thing or not is subjective |
| 20:48.35 | maquis | tensai: sure... i just haven't really minded it that much :) |
| 20:49.13 | tensai | maquis: but how will you ever win on jeopardy??? |
| 20:49.25 | maquis | tensai: partly from my lack of tv watching... partly from the fact that i never listened to radio on my own (without riding in the car with my mom where she selected the station) til around 10th grade... and probably some other things as well |
| 20:49.32 | JoshH | jeopardy is the greatest game show of all time |
| 20:49.39 | JoshH | except for the pop culture questions |
| 20:49.45 | maquis | JoshH: i'm with you on that :) |
| 20:50.01 | Migs | what the heck did you do all day!? |
| 20:50.08 | maquis | Migs: homework |
| 20:50.21 | Migs | homework blows |
| 20:50.23 | maquis | my school had about 6+ hours of homework per day... |
| 20:50.26 | Migs | wtf |
| 20:50.30 | maquis | the rest of the time, i usually read... |
| 20:50.37 | Migs | my daughter BETTER not have that much homework at her new school |
| 20:50.39 | maquis | or, i was on the debate team for a couple years in high school |
| 20:50.47 | maquis | Migs: it was a prep school |
| 20:51.04 | maquis | played a lot of scrabble with my parents |
| 20:51.11 | maquis | spent some time messing around on my computer |
| 20:51.32 | Migs | do you feel this turned you into the well-rounded individual you are today? |
| 20:51.41 | maquis | Migs: i'm a nerd |
| 20:51.49 | Migs | My kids are going to be nerds, too |
| 20:51.58 | Migs | my daughter is going to be sysadmining Linux by the time she's 8. OR ELSE. |
| 20:52.00 | maquis | i don't think of myself as well-rounded at all |
| 20:52.15 | maquis | well, i guess i'm well-rounded in that i've studied a lot of different topics |
| 20:52.18 | maquis | but other than that... |
| 20:52.42 | maquis | notes that she's pretty well-rounded physically currently as well, but being just over 6 months pregnant might be contributing a bit |
| 20:52.59 | tensai | maquis: hey, you stole my joke |
| 20:53.03 | levi | Not that kind of 'round'. :) |
| 20:53.07 | maquis | :P |
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| 21:32.12 | blendmaster1024 | lol |
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| 21:41.34 | Sargun | Migs, what happens if your daughter becomes a super model? |
| 21:41.36 | elg | best get-up-to-speed-with-python book? |
| 21:41.54 | Sargun | elg, books suck. :-P |
| 21:41.55 | goozbach | elg: snake wrangling for kids :) |
| 21:42.09 | goozbach | oriley learning python is one I've read |
| 21:42.18 | Sargun | elg, honestly, you should be able to learn everything in the books online |
| 21:42.59 | elg | sure but a good book gives me just what I need to know in a train-friendly format |
| 21:43.17 | Sargun | elg, get an aircard |
| 21:43.25 | Sargun | elg, or tether your phone |
| 21:43.41 | fungus | http://diveintopython.org/ |
| 21:43.42 | brac | [Dive Into Python] |
| 21:44.09 | fungus | or http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590593561/ref%3Dnosim/diveintomark20 for tree killers |
| 21:44.28 | Sargun | Dive into Python + Python docs = Win |
| 21:44.33 | Sargun | + #python |
| 21:45.03 | levi | elg: Gonna switch to Python from PHP? |
| 21:45.21 | elg | there's some python floating around esp. in the areas i'm interested in |
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| 21:45.47 | levi | Python's a pretty nice language. |
| 21:45.54 | levi | It's easy to pick up. |
| 21:46.05 | elg | pretty ugly. but I won't let that stop me from enjoying it |
| 21:46.32 | goozbach | that's what she said |
| 21:46.41 | levi | It has some ugly corners, like all the underscores, but the core language isn't too bad. |
| 21:47.03 | levi | PHP is ugly. Python just has some awkward bits. |
| 21:47.15 | elg | I haven't liked what I've seen of the string manipulation stuff, but when I get into the paradigm i'm sure it won't be too bad |
| 21:48.05 | levi | What haven't you liked about it? |
| 21:48.28 | elg | php isn't all that ugly. it's not at all pretty, but it's not that ugly. it's simple, has unnecessary sigils, and funny function names, but it is what it is. semantically, programming paradigmically, it's ugly. python I'm sure is pretty awesome when it comes to that |
| 21:48.50 | elg | and python's not the ugliest out there. it's just a gut subjective thing |
| 21:49.39 | levi | My opinion of Python was formed when all I knew was Pascal, C, and some Perl. It looked downright beautiful then. :) |
| 21:49.45 | elg | :-) |
| 21:50.00 | elg | pascal, now that's an ugly language |
| 21:50.07 | elg | no offense to mr pointer over there |
| 21:50.13 | elg | -lart Jayce^ |
| 21:50.13 | brac | makes Jayce^ try to set up a Lexmark printer |
| 21:50.13 | maquis | is slightly afraid of python... |
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| 21:51.10 | blendmaster1024 | lol |
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| 22:05.14 | harleypig | wtf? |
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| 22:06.20 | harleypig | updating my system seems to be bouncing my irssi session |
| 22:06.30 | maquis | ~bounce harleypig |
| 22:06.31 | ibot | ACTION bounces harleypig till harleypig burps |
| 22:06.42 | harleypig | BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURP |
| 22:06.47 | maquis | runs and hides |
| 22:07.00 | goozbach | plugs his nose |
| 22:07.06 | Jayce^ | passes out |
| 22:07.12 | maquis | peers out from under the table, still covering her mouth and nose with the tablecloth |
| 22:07.44 | harleypig | smiles beautifically |
| 22:08.23 | neybar | smells like mushroom burger |
| 22:08.40 | maquis | -lart ibot |
| 22:08.40 | brac | dispenses ibot's email address to a few hundred 'bulk mailing services' |
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| 22:34.22 | sjansen | Grrr. My first bad experience with Lenovo support. |
| 22:35.11 | Sargun | YAY |
| 22:35.44 | sjansen | When I can in this morning neither my track pad nor track point were working. |
| 22:36.33 | maquis | sjansen: you get it figured out/ |
| 22:36.36 | sjansen | The guy I'm talking to is a jerk. Shouldn't have mentioned that I had the problem in both Linux and Windows. |
| 22:36.53 | maquis | sjansen: why'd he have issues with the fact that you had the problem in both? |
| 22:37.20 | sjansen | It's definitely a hardware problem, albeit a rather mysterious one. None the less he's making me jump through hoops and being snotty. |
| 22:37.33 | sjansen | "Linux isn't supported." |
| 22:37.42 | Sargun | sjansen, you should cuss him out, and then hang out |
| 22:37.47 | Sargun | and then call back before he can file it |
| 22:38.45 | sjansen | First person I also had difficulty understanding. |
| 22:40.57 | maquis | sjansen: hang up and call back to get a different person? |
| 22:41.22 | sjansen | Nah, I got this guy to send me a tech. |
| 22:41.27 | sjansen | But it took > 30 minutes. |
| 22:41.33 | Sargun | CentOS 5.3 is out? |
| 22:41.40 | sjansen | Mostly doing the dance of the Slow Vista. |
| 22:41.48 | sjansen | C5.3 has been out for some time now |
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| 22:56.19 | tensai | elg: one of these books I got has turned out to be a decent stats primer |
| 22:56.40 | tensai | "Statistics without tears: a primer for non-mathematicians" |
| 22:59.31 | maquis | sjansen: let us know if you figure out what's going on |
| 22:59.32 | maquis | is curious |
| 23:00.05 | maquis | and tell the tech that the guy on the phone was a jerk and that it was your first bad experience with their support (after he fixes your stuff) |
| 23:03.33 | sjansen | tensai: Thanks for the tip. |
| 23:04.20 | tensai | sjansen: I accept payment in the form of pastries |
| 23:05.25 | maquis | pastries? i like pastries |
| 23:05.37 | maquis | sniffs around, looking for pastries |
| 23:06.33 | tensai | sjansen: you going to be at utosc this year? |
| 23:06.38 | sjansen | dunno |
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