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| 00:36.21 | Sargun | If the flame is hot enough to melt steel, why doesn't it melt the torch tip? The unignited gas flowing through the tip keeps it cool. |
| 00:36.23 | Sargun | that's insane |
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| 01:06.14 | levi | Sargun_Screen: What's insane about that? |
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| 03:30.25 | Vlack | sup |
| 03:30.43 | levi | Hi. |
| 03:30.53 | Vlack | hello levi |
| 03:30.59 | Vlack | am i welcome here? |
| 03:31.32 | Vlack | hmm |
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| 03:40.14 | tensai | the topic would imply so |
| 03:44.01 | levi | Oh well. |
| 03:44.10 | levi | This not exactly a hoppin' place lately. |
| 03:44.32 | levi | My wife is making me a halloween costume, and she was test-fitting it on me. |
| 03:52.42 | tensai | starting pretty early on that |
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| 04:01.42 | levi | Yeah, well, she's crazy about Halloween and costumes. |
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| 16:20.48 | sjansen | http://ohcatcomputer.afterclap.com/2009/07/gentoo-is-dead.html |
| 16:24.27 | Sargun | ? |
| 16:25.30 | Sargun | Gentoo: Control your developers. New users will tolerate this incompetence, arrogance, and rudeness much less than someone like me who's been using Gentoo for 5 years. |
| 16:25.43 | Sargun | You can't control you developers when you're a developer-driven organization |
| 16:28.56 | JoshH | what an idiot |
| 16:29.06 | Sargun | JoshH, I? |
| 16:29.19 | Sargun | I agree, Gentoo has issues with its community. |
| 16:29.24 | JoshH | no, that writer |
| 16:29.27 | Sargun | but, there is no solution. |
| 16:29.29 | JoshH | he's just whining |
| 16:29.43 | JoshH | and he uses gentoo in the first place |
| 16:29.58 | JoshH | which is a sign of bad taste and low intelligence |
| 16:32.36 | levi | Heh, the new web proxy at work thinks that URL is porn, sjansen. |
| 16:33.03 | JoshH | my comment is up |
| 16:37.06 | levi | I don't even care about Gentoo enough to make disparaging comments about it anymore. |
| 16:38.00 | JoshH | just funny that the guy wrote such a post because people on irc were mean to him |
| 16:38.18 | JoshH | and that it was about gentoo is just a bonus |
| 16:42.24 | CSJewell | OK. What's the problem with gentoo? |
| 16:42.35 | CSJewell | (Not that I use it... yet.) |
| 16:42.45 | JoshH | don't start |
| 16:45.22 | levi | CSJewell: My opinion boils down to 'more trouble than it's worth' |
| 16:46.20 | CSJewell | That doesn't help much, levi. Define 'trouble'. |
| 16:47.04 | levi | You get a bit more configurability in how your packages are built, but the cost is a lot higher in terms of figuring out how you want the packages built, downloading and compiling source code, fiddling with things, etc. |
| 16:49.18 | levi | For the most part, I prefer binary distributions where everything has been compiled and tested together, preferrably with some sane default configuration as well. For specific tools that matter to me, I tend to build from source myself, but I don't want my entire system built that way. |
| 16:51.30 | unum | CSJewell: it can take a long time for a gentoo update, especially on a desktop system |
| 16:52.10 | unum | and it's a lot of time spent learning about and making configuration decisions that will minimally affect the system |
| 16:53.13 | CSJewell | It's like building your own ports in FreeBSD and compiling from source yourself, rather than using packages. Been there, done that. |
| 16:53.35 | CSJewell | It's a "to each his own" thing. |
| 16:53.35 | Sargun | Any photo geeks willing to enlighten me, photo idiot? My camera is picking up an insane amount of noise, how do I stop that |
| 16:54.48 | CSJewell | I have rebuilt everything from the operating system up on that computer from the CVS source - it's something that you should do once. Makes you appreciate the work of binary distributors more. |
| 16:57.41 | levi | Sargun: Noise is generally a function of ISO setting. If you switch to a 'faster' ISO setting, noise should be reduced. |
| 16:58.24 | Sargun | levi, So, if I want to take long exposures, I'm going to get a lot of noise? |
| 16:58.37 | Sargun | wonders how his film friends do it. |
| 16:58.39 | levi | Sargun: No, long exposures are a cure for noise. |
| 16:59.42 | levi | I think I reversed the usage of 'slow' and 'fast' with regard to ISO. |
| 17:00.20 | levi | In any case, you want a low ISO number to reduce noise, but this will require more light to hit the sensor. |
| 17:00.42 | maquis | Sargun: if you use high iso, you get more noise |
| 17:00.42 | levi | You can get more light via a wider aperture or longer exposure time. |
| 17:00.50 | Sargun | high ISO = faster shutter. |
| 17:00.57 | maquis | but if you use lower iso, you need to have longer exposure or wider aperture |
| 17:01.00 | levi | ISO is different from shutter speed. |
| 17:01.11 | maquis | and if you use wider aperture, then the depth of field is different |
| 17:01.11 | levi | Though your camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the ISO setting. |
| 17:01.12 | stderr | no, ISO is not the shutter speed |
| 17:01.16 | stderr | it's the sensitivity to light. |
| 17:01.17 | Sargun | levi, I can only change exposure time on my camera, not ISO. |
| 17:01.29 | maquis | Sargun: you sure? |
| 17:01.34 | Sargun | Keep in mind this is a medium-end Canon G9 |
| 17:01.36 | maquis | even my point and shoot lets me choose iso |
| 17:01.36 | stderr | in film cameras, ISO was a film sensitivity rating. |
| 17:01.44 | stderr | with digital, it's the sensitivity of the light sensor. |
| 17:01.45 | maquis | Sargun: canon g9? you sure |
| 17:01.51 | maquis | i'm pretty sure most of the canons allow it |
| 17:01.57 | Sargun | maquis, Nevermind. |
| 17:02.01 | maquis | i've got a a620 p&s and a xt |
| 17:02.05 | Sargun | It's a hardware knob, not a software knob. |
| 17:02.09 | levi | Sargun: There's probably an ISO setting somewhere. But it will probably adjust the ISO lower if you set a longer exposure. |
| 17:02.12 | stderr | you shouldn't even screw with ISO if you're not comfortable with shutter speed and aperture |
| 17:02.26 | maquis | stderr: agreed |
| 17:02.37 | maquis | i set it once to something that worked well, and then have left it there since :) |
| 17:02.42 | Sargun | stderr, Reasoning: I'm trying to take pictures at night, and I'm getting an insane amount of noise. |
| 17:02.53 | Sargun | can't hurt himself, therefore he will experiment. |
| 17:02.56 | stderr | Sargun: are you using a tripod or some other stability? |
| 17:03.01 | Sargun | stderr, yes. |
| 17:03.08 | stderr | what type of camera / lens? |
| 17:03.14 | levi | Sargun: The secret to low-noise night shots is really long exposure time. |
| 17:03.17 | Sargun | stderr, Kit/built-in Lense. |
| 17:03.19 | maquis | Sargun: try setting iso to something like 400-ish |
| 17:03.20 | Sargun | er, lens. |
| 17:03.36 | stderr | you should be exposing it for a couple seconds, at least. |
| 17:03.38 | Sargun | Therefore, he will set the exposure time high, play with the ISO. |
| 17:03.47 | maquis | if you're still getting noise, you can try 200 or 100 |
| 17:03.48 | Sargun | stderr, I'm going an 8 second exposure to get the effect I want. |
| 17:03.49 | stderr | you probably just have a low-quality light sensor |
| 17:03.55 | Sargun | stderr, That is likely. |
| 17:03.59 | stderr | shrugs |
| 17:04.18 | stderr | I don't use my point and shoot at night really |
| 17:04.20 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/607041830_KQZ69-L.jpg |
| 17:04.30 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/607041830_KQZ69-O.jpg |
| 17:04.31 | levi | If you're exposing for 8 seconds and still getting noise, you're probably in trouble. |
| 17:04.51 | Sargun | you can see the -O, and get the noise in that |
| 17:05.00 | Sargun | Also, I'll try saving out to .raw, and doing some cleanup there. |
| 17:05.06 | stderr | that's not a terrible picture for a point and shoot |
| 17:05.20 | stderr | it's light sensor is probably being thrown off by the street lamp in the foreground, too |
| 17:05.22 | Sargun | stderr, It's not exactly a point and shoot. |
| 17:05.23 | stderr | its* |
| 17:05.59 | maquis | yeah... that's not bad... |
| 17:06.30 | maquis | i agree with stderr's comment about the lamps |
| 17:06.44 | Sargun | stderr, isn't it it's? it is not exactly, not possessive |
| 17:06.56 | Sargun | pops it into the gimp for an image cleanup. |
| 17:07.15 | stderr | possessive its has no punctuation attributed to it. |
| 17:07.24 | maquis | stderr is correct |
| 17:07.25 | stderr | Lightroom++ for image cleanup |
| 17:07.40 | Sargun | stderr, yeah, buy me another windows license. |
| 17:07.51 | stderr | http://www.flickr.com/photos/dataw0lf/3766297570/ able to duplicate a filter easily on my point & shoot with Lightroom |
| 17:08.20 | Sargun | stderr, nice. |
| 17:08.24 | maquis | nice |
| 17:08.33 | maquis | i still need to clean up pics i have from 2 years ago |
| 17:08.41 | maquis | i've only got a few posted up on smugmug |
| 17:08.50 | maquis | ooh... and i think my smugmug account is about to expire... |
| 17:08.56 | stderr | I have hardly any photos on flickr, I'm trying to get into the habit of uploading em more |
| 17:09.30 | sjansen | To me the biggest problem with gentoo is that the most skilled developers jumped ship long ago. |
| 17:11.03 | Sargun | maquis, Smugmug is my backup location |
| 17:11.54 | maquis | Sargun: yeah... it's my offsite backup, i guess :P |
| 17:12.00 | maquis | <3 S3 |
| 17:22.24 | Sargun | maquis, do you get free/discounted S3? |
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| 17:30.59 | maquis | Sargun: don't think so |
| 17:31.07 | maquis | i don't actually have a s3 account |
| 17:31.17 | maquis | i just use smugmug, which is using s3 :) |
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| 17:35.39 | Sargun | just learned an interesting fact. |
| 17:40.20 | stderr | Japanese Maple bears an uncanny resemblance to marijuana? |
| 17:42.12 | JoshH | i did not know that |
| 17:42.21 | JoshH | but now i want to grow it at home just to mess with the uptight neighbors |
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| 18:03.36 | sjansen | I can understand wanting to mess with the neighbors, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to risk an armed police raid to do it. |
| 18:04.13 | Sargun | Alright, I don't know anything about the UK, do US POTS phones work there? |
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| 18:33.56 | levi | Japanese Maple isn't *that* close to MJ. For one, it's a TREE. |
| 18:40.09 | stderr | you've apparently never seen a really large marijuana plant |
| 18:40.20 | sjansen | levi: There you go again, ruining our fun with facts. |
| 18:40.34 | stderr | http://news.humcounty.com/images/gigantic_outdoor_marijuana_plant.jpg |
| 18:41.27 | Sargun | http://www.usr.com/products/modem/modem-product.asp?sku=USR5686E |
| 18:41.31 | Sargun | 50% than what? |
| 18:42.52 | Sargun | http://www.usr.com/products/modem/business-product.asp?sku=USR3453c |
| 18:42.59 | Sargun | can someone tell me why that's $250? |
| 18:43.12 | JoshH | because if you need it, you'll pay |
| 18:43.29 | sjansen | remember upgrade to a 56k modem and loving how much faster it was than 14.4 |
| 18:43.49 | Sargun | JoshH, need what? |
| 18:43.51 | stderr | Aye, I remember upgrading to a 56k modem too, it was like being in heaven. |
| 18:43.53 | JoshH | a modem |
| 18:44.02 | Sargun | JoshH, No, look, one is $100, and one is $250 |
| 18:44.05 | Sargun | What's the diffference |
| 18:44.17 | sjansen | Yes, but the $250 is for "business". |
| 18:44.33 | JoshH | i only saw one |
| 18:44.45 | stderr | if anyone knows people who're looking for a dog walker, my girlfriend is going to be moving to SLC with me on the 15th |
| 18:45.37 | Sargun | sjansen, *facepalm* |
| 18:45.38 | sjansen | Sargun: Look at the remote management and reliability options on the more expensive one. You're paying for more than a mere acoustic coupler. |
| 18:46.12 | Sargun | sjansen, ah, good point |
| 18:46.24 | Sargun | Not sure how it'll do most of these, it looks like it'd require IP. |
| 18:46.47 | Sargun | Instant Update? automatically checks the USRobotics web site for code updates when you?re |
| 18:46.47 | Sargun | Management Tools online and downloads new features at your convenience |
| 18:47.17 | Sargun | Alright, I don't know anything about modems |
| 18:47.19 | Sargun | do you guys? |
| 18:48.54 | JoshH | i use one of those usr's for nagios paging |
| 18:49.03 | JoshH | but i'm not sure if it's the cheap one or the expensive one |
| 19:01.41 | sjansen | levi: You mentioned you're learning scala. Can you recommend a book? |
| 19:30.55 | tensai | I have a white version of that cheaper modem right here on my desk. I use it occasionally. |
| 19:31.54 | levi | sjansen: Programming in Scala is excellent. |
| 19:32.39 | levi | sjansen: I only have the pdf version, which I bought before the book was released, but it's a very good book. |
| 19:33.08 | levi | sjansen: There's also an O'Reilly book that's not finished yet, but the draft of which is available freely online. |
| 19:34.01 | levi | I haven't looked at that one deeply enough to know how good it is, but it's presented in a form that makes it harder to read (but easier to leave feedback). |
| 19:34.06 | tensai | I replaced the video card in my mythtv box and now it's working, so those blown capacitors definitely seem to have been the problem |
| 19:36.03 | jsmith | sjansen: Get your mainboard replaced yet? |
| 19:36.54 | sjansen | nope |
| 19:37.19 | sjansen | The guys coming from Utah county, so he won't be here until 4pm. |
| 19:37.46 | sjansen | Which is kinda disappointing, but still better than FedEx-ing it. |
| 19:40.58 | Jayce^_ | http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article6735381.ece |
| 19:41.18 | Jayce^_ | wait, so ebay paid 2.6b, and didn't get the actual software for skype... ai meu... |
| 19:44.37 | sjansen | Wow, sounds like someone at Amazon made a really boneheaded decision. |
| 19:45.01 | Jayce^_ | you mean ebay |
| 19:45.10 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 19:52.27 | Sargun | levi, Why did you choose Scala over Erlang? |
| 19:55.06 | sjansen | Yeah, eBay. |
| 19:56.04 | levi | Sargun: What makes you think I chose Scala over Erlang? |
| 19:56.14 | levi | Do I only get to pick one? |
| 19:56.18 | Sargun | levi, Why did you choose Scala? |
| 19:57.32 | levi | Sargun: I was curious about the fusion of object oriented and functional programming with a static type system, and I like the idea of having easy access to all the Java libraries. |
| 19:57.51 | Sargun | Have you played with Erlang as well? |
| 19:58.33 | levi | Yes, but it is not very much like Scala at all, aside from the fact that Scala's Actors were inspired by Erlang. |
| 20:02.23 | Sargun | levi, what did you like better |
| 20:04.01 | levi | What did I like better about what? |
| 20:04.38 | Sargun | Erlang or Scala? |
| 20:04.46 | Sargun | As a language? |
| 20:04.56 | Sargun | and a runtime system |
| 20:07.19 | levi | I haven't used either one enough to say, though I think the Scala language is more powerful and flexible than the Erlang language. The Scala runtime does vastly more than the Erlang runtime does, but makes different sorts of guarantees about your programs. |
| 20:07.31 | maquis | sjansen: what? |
| 20:07.50 | levi | maquis: He said 'amazon' when he meant 'ebay'. |
| 20:07.54 | maquis | levi: thanks |
| 20:08.00 | maquis | phew |
| 20:08.02 | maquis | i was scared |
| 20:08.15 | maquis | we've done stupid things before, but i hadn't heard of anything stupid today |
| 20:08.46 | sjansen | There's limited overlap between problems best solved by Erlang and best solved by Scala. |
| 20:09.51 | sjansen | Erlang is great for concurrent network services, especially when dealing with binary data and... well, really, that's about it. |
| 20:10.51 | sjansen | Scala is more general purpose, but as far as I not it doesn't have the same free infrastructure for creating fault tolerant, transparent clusters. |
| 20:11.37 | sjansen | As languages go, Erlang is kinda sucky. The Erlang VM is what makes it killer. |
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| 20:17.28 | levi | Scala has an Actor library that does the Erlang thing pretty well, albeit without all the extra library supoprt that Erlang comes with for fault-tolerant servers built on top of it. |
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| 20:20.17 | sjansen | Are Scala actors also network tranparent like Erlang? |
| 20:21.17 | levi | That I'm not sure about. |
| 20:21.35 | levi | I know they are able to share a thread pool, though. |
| 20:22.00 | levi | So you can do zillions of them without using up all your threads. |
| 20:25.01 | Sargun | zillions might be a lot. |
| 20:25.33 | Sargun | sjansen, What don't you like about Erlang? |
| 20:26.24 | levi | Erlang syntax is kind of a weird offshoot of Prolog. |
| 20:26.32 | sjansen | The Prolog-based syntax and anemic string handling are my biggest gripes. |
| 20:26.51 | levi | It's also not very flexible, language-wise. |
| 20:26.54 | Sargun | sjansen, you dislike patten matching? |
| 20:28.57 | sjansen | I love pattern matching, I hate refactoring existing code. |
| 20:29.42 | sjansen | Fiddly details like when to use commas, that sort of thing. |
| 20:30.14 | Sargun | yeah, I hate that too. |
| 20:30.25 | Sargun | I kind of wish there was some nice editor for it. |
| 20:30.29 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/607038361_DPJuV-L.jpg < My current project |
| 20:30.43 | Sargun | +1 for anyone who can name all the hardware in that picture |
| 20:30.54 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/607038361_DPJuV-O.jpg for Jumbo size. |
| 20:31.25 | levi | Scala (and a zillion other ML-family langauges) also have pattern matching. |
| 20:32.08 | Sargun | loves being able to spawn () without being afraid of running out of threads |
| 20:32.18 | Sargun | the annoying stuff is the lack of atom GC |
| 20:32.31 | Sargun | stupid punctuation |
| 20:32.36 | Sargun | And general clumsiness |
| 20:32.41 | levi | Most of them also have more powerful capabilities for building new abstractions. |
| 20:32.44 | Sargun | String handling is problematic. |
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| 21:11.26 | levi | Scala also has a parser combinator library. |
| 21:15.13 | levi | Another nice thing about Scala is that, in addition to supporting functional style, it supports better OO style than Java. |
| 21:18.39 | rsimpkins | Sargun: Is this your datacenter? |
| 21:18.59 | rsimpkins | Or examples of horrible server configurations? |
| 21:19.45 | Sargun | rsimpkins, I'm building a bunch of boxes before I take them to the datacenter. |
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| 21:21.38 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/343524881_Thtub-L.jpg |
| 21:21.43 | Sargun | That's closer to the DC |
| 21:22.35 | Sargun | rsimpkins, Keep in mind, I don't do layer 1. |
| 21:23.34 | rsimpkins | Sargun: If that photo is an example of your datacenter, I'd be a little worried. |
| 21:24.09 | sjansen | levi: sweet |
| 21:24.32 | Sargun | rsimpkins, the first, or the second? |
| 21:24.40 | rsimpkins | Sargun: 404 NOT FOUND |
| 21:25.11 | Sargun | http://sargun.smugmug.com/photos/343524881_Thtub-L.jpg < can get to this |
| 21:25.26 | Sargun | o.O |
| 21:25.48 | Sargun | wrong code, it should say 403 |
| 21:26.06 | rsimpkins | It gave me a 404 at least once. |
| 21:26.13 | Sargun | ok, tryagain |
| 21:26.32 | levi | sjansen: You get traits instead of interfaces, which means you can include implementation code in the trait so long as that code only depends on abstract members. |
| 21:27.37 | levi | sjansen: E.g., you can define a trait like 'Ordered[T]' that only requires you to implement a comparison function and gives you implementations of all the other stuff for free. |
| 21:28.06 | sjansen | I'm looking at scala's parser combinator library. One of the biggest reasons I've wished I could use a weird language like Haskell at work. |
| 21:28.51 | levi | The 'Programming in Scala' book shows how to use it to create a simple JSON parser and an expression parser/evaluator for a simple GUI spreadsheet. |
| 21:29.02 | Sargun | rsimpkins, I hate doing physical installs. |
| 21:29.57 | levi | The Actors example is a parallel circuit simulation that shows how to farm out and coordinate a bunch of tasks. |
| 21:45.26 | sjansen | http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1126 |
| 21:47.29 | levi | Is that the napping at work one? |
| 21:48.15 | stderr | yar |
| 23:03.34 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (n=dsowen@fugue88.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:04.03 | eggyknap | Any PostgreSQL-knowledgeable people looking for a job? |
