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| 00:18.24 | tensai | ~queso elg |
| 00:19.00 | elg | so you joined the brotherhood of the bald |
| 00:19.17 | tensai | it wasn't my first induction |
| 00:19.39 | tensai | my wife hates it but it's somewhat of a scout camp tradition |
| 00:19.49 | elg | i see |
| 00:19.50 | elg | well welcome back |
| 00:20.18 | elg | even if you're only visiting |
| 00:20.24 | tensai | I cut my ear shaving :( |
| 00:20.34 | elg | not off, i hope |
| 00:20.44 | tensai | I'll probably let it grow out, along with the beard, for hunting season |
| 00:20.55 | tensai | checks his ear |
| 00:20.58 | tensai | nope, still there |
| 00:21.23 | elg | wouldn't want to scare the deer |
| 00:22.38 | tensai | a few staff members at camp shaved their heads one night. one of them managed to cut his scalp up pretty nasty. |
| 00:22.52 | tensai | nasty looking anyway. he seemed to be ok. |
| 00:23.07 | elg | someone should invest in a headblade next year |
| 00:23.32 | elg | do the boys get in on the fun? |
| 00:23.48 | elg | or only their crazy leaders? |
| 00:24.07 | elg | what about the female leaders? |
| 00:24.49 | elg | there's something fun about growing your hair and beard together. knowing that all the hair on your head is the same length |
| 00:25.50 | tensai | shaving a whole head in the woods turns out to be a somewhat tricky deal. your headblade post kept repeating in my brain. |
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| 14:36.57 | elg | tensai: i shave in the shower these days. no looking |
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| 16:19.14 | sjansen | Windows is so ugly it should be criminal. |
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| 16:26.15 | _crush | Anyone know how to add something to chkconfig that is normally there but for some reason isn't there after a fresh install? |
| 16:28.12 | sjansen | _crush: Not sure I understand the question, but it sounds like you didn't install the service. So you need to do: yum install whatever |
| 16:29.00 | sjansen | _crush: What exactly is missing? If you're moving to a new release, perhaps it has been replaced by something else. |
| 16:42.28 | _crush | Sorry, got distracted. Install of Fedora 11, installed postix via yum, and it's not in the chkconfig list |
| 16:44.02 | sjansen | Verify that it actually installed: rpm -q postfix |
| 16:44.16 | sjansen | Verify that it is not corrupted: rpm -V postfix |
| 16:44.17 | _crush | I know it's there and running, otherwise I couldn't get my email |
| 16:45.56 | _crush | http://fpaste.org/paste/18822 |
| 16:45.57 | sjansen | Running is not the same thing as installed. Perhaps it is still resident in RAM, but has been removed from disk. |
| 16:46.09 | _crush | I noticed this after a reboot |
| 16:46.30 | sjansen | chkconfig --list postfix |
| 16:46.36 | _crush | no output |
| 16:46.58 | sjansen | None? You should have at least had an error message. |
| 16:47.13 | _crush | No errors, no output, just puts me back at command line |
| 16:47.43 | sjansen | rpm -Vf $(which chkconfig) |
| 16:49.47 | _crush | No errors or output, just back at command line |
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| 16:55.05 | _crush | I think I found it, just chkconfig --add postfix got it on there without errors |
| 16:55.21 | _crush | then of course chkconfig postfix on |
| 16:57.23 | sjansen | That's an indication that postfix's post-install script didn't run. Which is kinda scary because it makes me wonder how many other packages aren't fully configured. |
| 16:58.42 | sjansen | BTW, WTF are you doing running F11 on a server?! |
| 16:58.48 | sjansen | ~chastise _crush |
| 16:58.49 | ibot | ACTION Takes a lightning bolt and fries _crush. |
| 16:59.33 | _crush | A personal choice. I want and in some cases need the latest packages and I find it easier (for me) to re-install once a year than to monkey with forcing in packages to a CentOS install |
| 17:00.33 | _crush | Besides, someone needs to be a tester for the latest packages, right? |
| 17:00.48 | stderr | a production server, even? |
| 17:02.19 | sjansen | On behalf of those of us who intend to keep our data, to those of you about to lose your data, I salute you. |
| 17:02.28 | _crush | Yes I know it's bleeding edge, so there is a slight security issue with less tested packages, but they are still releasted as stable, so what's the problem with a Fedora server? |
| 17:02.50 | _crush | sjansen, when was the last time you heard of a Fedora server being hacked due to a flaw in the code that wasn't a user's fault? |
| 17:03.58 | stderr | I don't think he's necessarily worried about you being hacked per se... |
| 17:04.48 | _crush | Besides, it's not a production server, just a personal one. It's not like I'm running a critical system |
| 17:04.56 | sjansen | Fedora is not stable. It is roughly equivalent to Debian Sid. There's strong reason to believe none of it's packages will kill kittens, but everyone once in awhile... |
| 17:06.08 | JoshH | but fedora doesn't get new versions of packages every day like sid, afaik |
| 17:06.15 | JoshH | so once installed and working, it should stay that way |
| 17:06.22 | JoshH | unless i'm wrong |
| 17:08.09 | sjansen | No, Fedora has a constant flow of new packages. Perhaps not a much as Sid, but it isn't unusual to have > 500MB of updates just a week after release and > 1GB within a month. |
| 17:08.58 | sjansen | And it pretty much stays that way until the devs get distracted by the next pending release. |
| 17:09.10 | unum | fedora does have a constant flow of new packages |
| 17:09.12 | _crush | I don't get 500Mb of a month, may 100Mb tops |
| 17:09.26 | JoshH | so it's not "stable", like ubuntu, as in you only get bugfix and security updates? |
| 17:09.38 | JoshH | i haven't used fedora since core 2, and i can't remember much about it |
| 17:10.23 | fungus | For a personal, screw around server, fedora is fine. |
| 17:10.50 | sjansen | Security updates, bug fixes, new features, random experimentation. So far the only thing I haven't seen is malicious cruelty. |
| 17:11.42 | jsmith | agrees with sjansen (and yes, I use Fedora on my desktops.) It's fine for a Desktop OS, but a server OS it is not |
| 17:12.02 | JoshH | i'd use it on my desktop if i preferred teh redhat way over the debian way |
| 17:12.09 | _crush | How is ubuntu any more stable than Fedora, they are almost identical in package version, right? |
| 17:12.43 | JoshH | if you get bugfix and security updates, it's stable. if you get new versions and new features, it's not stable |
| 17:13.21 | _crush | And Fedora doesn't get any bugfix or security updates? I seem to get them regularly |
| 17:13.30 | sjansen | _crush: It's all about probability. The core of Ubuntu is changed much less often than the core of Fedora. |
| 17:14.18 | _crush | What constitutes the core of each? |
| 17:14.38 | sjansen | Of course, identifying that core can be tricky at times. Universe doesn't come with the same promise. And PPAs were created specifically because some people want less stability with certain packages. |
| 17:15.08 | sjansen | Fedora no longer has a core. There is no Fedora Core, there is only Fedora. (And Xul.) |
| 17:15.23 | JoshH | there are production servers running fedora, sid, or gentoo in every datacenter on earth |
| 17:15.26 | JoshH | sadly |
| 17:16.01 | sjansen | Ubuntu's core is the set of packages officially supported by Canonical. I don't remember what they call the repo, but it isn't Universe and it definitely Multiverse. |
| 17:16.25 | sinuhe | main and restricted |
| 17:16.46 | JoshH | and not even every package in main is supported in the LTS |
| 17:16.48 | sjansen | JoshH: There are people drinking and driving on every road on the earth. That doesn't make it a good idea. |
| 17:17.04 | JoshH | i'm not saying it's a good idea, just that it's a sad fact |
| 17:17.34 | JoshH | but upgrading those does result in lots of side consulting gigs, for exorbitant fees |
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| 17:19.16 | eightyeight | _crush: the difference between package updates in fedora and ubuntu? ubuntu doesn't get new versions after stable has released. |
| 17:19.35 | eightyeight | _crush: ubuntu won't install a new kernel version, or the latest firefox, just because they released |
| 17:19.41 | eightyeight | _crush: fedora will |
| 17:19.51 | JoshH | see, i didn't know fedora did that |
| 17:20.02 | JoshH | i thought you had to wait for the next major release to get those |
| 17:20.13 | sjansen | Sometimes. |
| 17:20.22 | sjansen | Kinda depends on the whims of the devs. |
| 17:20.23 | JoshH | so i guess the only reason to upgrade fedora releases is becuase if you don't, you won't keep getting new versions |
| 17:20.30 | JoshH | or any updates |
| 17:21.01 | eightyeight | _crush: ubuntu _only_ ships, by default (excluding manually added ppas) security fixes and bug fixes |
| 17:21.21 | _crush | I don't have to install the latest kernel or firefox, and as a headless server, firefox doesn't come with the install |
| 17:21.29 | eightyeight | but, it sucks after 3-4 months, when all your package versions are getting a bit stale |
| 17:21.52 | eightyeight | _crush: my point is still made. bash, gcc, kernel, etc, etc. |
| 17:21.53 | JoshH | i used to obsessively upgrade sid every day or two |
| 17:22.06 | JoshH | these days i don't care about packages being stale unless there is a specific feature in a new version of something that i want |
| 17:22.10 | sjansen | JoshH: Might as well have been running Gentoo then. |
| 17:22.21 | JoshH | nah, debian is still better |
| 17:22.31 | JoshH | but with sid, if you wait too long to upgrade, then when you do upgrade, it can be more of a pita |
| 17:23.04 | sjansen | I'm glad I used Gentoo for two reasons: 1) It taught me alot about Linux. 2) It beat most of the need to be bleeding edge out of me. |
| 17:23.05 | eightyeight | yeah. testing is the best bet for those who don't want to babysit updates, have a stable box, and stay fairly up-to-date |
| 17:23.09 | JoshH | it's better to get 5 new packages a day that install with no issues than have 500 upgrades that needs some manual intervention once a month |
| 17:31.03 | tensai | reminds me of kernel compiles. great fun for a newbie and a good learning experience, but hardly worth the effort involved. |
| 17:32.50 | sinuhe | Thankfully, kernels are one of the easier things to upgrade on a system. |
| 17:34.16 | eightyeight | i still enjoy compiling my own kernel |
| 17:34.24 | JoshH | i used to compile my own kernels all the time |
| 17:34.34 | JoshH | these days i never do, unless i need patches or something |
| 17:34.41 | sinuhe | Unless I need the driver, the kernel is usually the least on my thoughts for upgrading. |
| 17:34.42 | JoshH | like certain machines that have grsec |
| 17:35.13 | unum | ya I don't enjoy it anymore either |
| 17:35.33 | unum | http://www.bugsby.net/Pictures/Walk/index2.html <- I went there on monday. I bought one of the monkeys in the second picture |
| 17:35.34 | brac | [Walk with me!] |
| 17:54.01 | eightyeight | i don't do it often, don't get me wrong. i don't complie with the latest release every release |
| 17:54.16 | eightyeight | but, when i do compile a new kernel, i find it fun |
| 17:54.25 | eightyeight | for no other reason than "i can" |
| 17:55.52 | eightyeight | i guess it is a challeng to go through the config, making sure i get the stuff i need in there too |
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| 18:38.43 | sjansen | Why does Internet addiction scare China so badly? |
| 18:39.29 | tensai | if you spend enough time on the internet you might actually find the stuffy they tried to hide? |
| 18:39.36 | tensai | s/stuffy/stuff/ |
| 18:40.46 | sjansen | I dunno. It seems Internet addiction == gaming addiction in China. |
| 18:47.20 | macnewbold | from what I understand, it's pretty bad there. addiction ~= 16+ hours a day playing online |
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| 18:48.52 | tensai | ties Jayce^'s shoelaces together |
| 19:05.53 | unum | yeah!!!! you tube is phasing out support for ie6 |
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| 19:14.02 | tensai | we still occasionally get questions about why we don't support ie5 for the mac |
| 19:15.11 | sjansen | Do you support elinks on contiki? |
| 19:17.48 | tensai | only on the gameboy advance, but definitely not on the c64 |
| 19:23.55 | maquis | ie5? |
| 19:24.05 | maquis | man... i keep forgetting that ie still exists |
| 19:25.08 | unum | wow I really disagree with sasha |
| 19:25.17 | maquis | what'd sasha say? |
| 19:25.36 | maquis | is suddenly reminded of how much time she used to spend reading flame-wars on plug |
| 19:25.48 | maquis | who was it that always kicked them off??? |
| 19:25.49 | JoshH | plug has been incredibly boring lately |
| 19:26.07 | JoshH | and sllug has had a lot of spam and gibberish |
| 19:26.40 | unum | sasha's argument is that it's overly paranoid to do a reinstall after you have been hacked |
| 19:26.41 | tensai | maquis: the fugals did their share. elg with the reply-to, vontrapp with economics |
| 19:26.58 | unum | and that you should just assume your data is intact and untouched |
| 19:27.04 | JoshH | i think it depends on the hack, unum |
| 19:27.16 | unum | JoshH: ya this hack doesn't look so bad |
| 19:27.25 | maquis | tensai: i'm thinking way further back, i think |
| 19:27.31 | JoshH | if some php site had some files uploaded, probably don't need to nuke and pave |
| 19:27.33 | maquis | i recall some John something or other... or something like that... |
| 19:27.33 | unum | so where he starts out talking about this specific hack it's one thing |
| 19:27.42 | maquis | who kept causing problems over and over and over again |
| 19:28.04 | unum | maquis: wasn't dupnick was it? |
| 19:28.09 | maquis | unum: i agree with you.... |
| 19:28.16 | tensai | he's got a point about possible vs probable. asking me if something is possible is really a wasted question. of course it is. the question is whether we have the time or money to do it. |
| 19:28.19 | JoshH | i know who you are talking about |
| 19:28.21 | unum | I wouldn't think he would be on that list |
| 19:28.33 | JoshH | i used to cringe all the time reading that "mister ed" guy's posts |
| 19:28.51 | tensai | ~bucky maquis |
| 19:28.54 | JoshH | coates used to have some inflammatory opinions |
| 19:28.56 | tensai | ~buckybot maquis |
| 19:28.57 | ibot | maquis: you're a stupid idiot, and I can tell you that all I want, but if you say anything mean to me, I'll start crying and insulting everything I can, because you're discriminating against me! |
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| 19:29.55 | unum | I had forgotten about all those people |
| 19:31.04 | JoshH | i miss the plug libertarians |
| 19:31.16 | JoshH | who think nothing should be socialist except for utah's liquor |
| 19:32.25 | tensai | here's a classic thread. http://www.plug.org/pipermail/plug/2008-April/030522.html |
| 19:32.26 | unum | the government shouldn't be able to tell me what I do with my kids or my money, but they should be able to tell you who you can marry |
| 19:33.17 | JoshH | i hate the UTA's utopia stance so much |
| 19:33.37 | JoshH | they don't understand that it's not a government isp competing with the private sector |
| 19:33.44 | JoshH | and i'm not sure if they are capable of understanding that |
| 19:34.11 | JoshH | but a lot of people respect what they say |
| 19:38.53 | unum | http://plug.org/pipermail/plug/2006-February/thread.html <- the first flame war I got involved in on plug is the ashdown one |
| 19:39.01 | unum | JoshH: have you met senator stevenson? |
| 19:39.06 | JoshH | no |
| 19:39.17 | JoshH | i've heard he's quite a prick though |
| 19:39.23 | unum | I think people would lose a lot of respect for the association if they did |
| 19:40.03 | unum | he want's to shut down city swimming pools and rec centers |
| 19:40.13 | JoshH | i believe that |
| 19:40.17 | unum | somehow he thinks being a state senator means running my city government |
| 19:40.37 | unum | he's mad because salt lake lets people rent out some of their nice buildings for only a clean up fee |
| 19:41.10 | unum | my right wing family like to define the left based off of a few extremist they've never even met |
| 19:41.19 | unum | I wish they would actually look at the people they are voting for |
| 19:41.24 | JoshH | i wish he would quit trying to cut things like that, and focus on lowering utah's high state income taxes or something |
| 19:41.33 | JoshH | or get rid of the socialist liquor stores |
| 19:41.52 | unum | at least they got rid of the private clubs |
| 19:42.12 | unum | they killed the malt liquor drinks or what every they are called |
| 19:42.22 | JoshH | true, but they also have a ridiculous id scanning/info storage system now |
| 19:42.26 | unum | paper kept calling the alcholopops or something like that |
| 19:42.34 | JoshH | if you go to squatters, they have to take your id to the back room to enter it into tehir system now |
| 19:42.36 | unum | I thought they killed the storage part |
| 19:42.41 | JoshH | imagine how tourists feel about that |
| 19:42.46 | unum | ya |
| 19:42.47 | JoshH | nope |
| 19:42.50 | JoshH | they didn't kill the storage |
| 19:42.54 | JoshH | they just killed a central state database |
| 19:42.59 | unum | that's aweful |
| 19:43.10 | unum | I don't understand these people. |
| 19:43.14 | unum | PICK A SIDE!!!! |
| 19:51.10 | sjansen | unum:But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so |
| 19:51.10 | sjansen | I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. |
| 19:52.19 | tensai | there was a really great sco thread but I can't find it just now |
| 19:52.28 | maquis | if you've JoshH that's who i was thinking of... coates |
| 19:54.32 | levi | My wife's friend's husband was a roommate of coates at one point, apparently. |
| 19:54.48 | maquis | doesn't know where the if you've came from there |
| 19:55.06 | tensai | maquis: having trouble with the words today? |
| 19:55.27 | maquis | tensai: pregnancy brain |
| 19:55.34 | JoshH | how far in? |
| 19:55.35 | maquis | i blame it all on that |
| 19:55.39 | maquis | JoshH: 21.5 weeks |
| 19:55.46 | JoshH | my wife gets that really bad |
| 19:58.38 | maquis | yup |
| 19:58.41 | maquis | it's pretty crazy |
| 19:58.54 | maquis | between that and the fact that my attention span is now about 10 minutes, i've been struggling a bit at work |
| 19:59.43 | tensai | maquis: ultrasound yet? |
| 19:59.55 | maquis | tensai: girl :) |
| 20:00.04 | maquis | Callie :) |
| 20:00.22 | tensai | what, not Tuxgirl? |
| 20:01.00 | sjansen | Tuxerina |
| 20:01.37 | maquis | lol |
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| 20:07.06 | JoshH | callie is a good name |
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| 20:08.12 | tensai | http://xkcd.com/327/ |
| 20:08.12 | brac | [xkcd - A Webcomic - Exploits of a Mom] |
| 20:08.20 | Sargun | macnewbold, coates? |
| 20:08.32 | tensai | little callie tables |
| 20:08.32 | maquis | Sargun: if that was to me, yes... that's who i was thinking of |
| 20:08.52 | maquis | tensai: yes... that's a good one :) |
| 20:08.53 | Sargun | who is coates |
| 20:09.05 | maquis | someone who was on plug when i was on it |
| 20:09.51 | levi | Guy who founded mozy.com, IIRC |
| 20:09.52 | tensai | Sargun: you've heard of archive.org? |
| 20:10.06 | Sargun | tensai, yeah |
| 20:10.18 | tensai | Sargun: he built their storage system |
| 20:10.21 | Sargun | oh |
| 20:10.24 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 20:10.48 | tensai | he's now a byu professor, apparently |
| 20:10.55 | maquis | tensai: really? |
| 20:12.02 | levi | A volunteer adjunct, according to his website. |
| 20:12.47 | JoshH | is coates a mormon? |
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| 20:20.18 | Jayce^_ | yes, he is |
| 20:20.39 | ti`ocpi | So, could anybody give me advice on dvd ripping in Linux? I can't get dvd::rip to do what I want it to ... and I kinda have no idea what I'm doing. |
| 20:20.58 | maquis | Jayce^_: you've got a tail... |
| 20:21.02 | maquis | Jayce^__________ |
| 20:21.23 | maquis | ti`ocpi: needing to script it? or can you just use mencoder? |
| 20:21.37 | maquis | i mean... er... |
| 20:21.42 | maquis | looks around the room |
| 20:21.57 | maquis | uh... i don't think anyone in this channel would know anythiing about that |
| 20:22.09 | unum | so if any of you end up at fort douglas, do you think you could create an opening for us |
| 20:22.27 | unum | we'll just assume these dvd's have no DRM |
| 20:22.46 | unum | after all we all burn plenty of our DVD and have to convert them back :) |
| 20:23.16 | sjansen | End up ad Ft. Douglas? |
| 20:23.52 | unum | I mean camp williams |
| 20:23.56 | unum | sorry wrong place |
| 20:24.24 | levi | Gah, stupid Pontiac broke down. :( |
| 20:25.28 | ti`ocpi | maquis: I could use mencoder if you give me an example command to use |
| 20:25.29 | maquis | unum: yes... |
| 20:25.56 | tensai | ti`ocpi: what is it you're trying to do? |
| 20:27.58 | ti`ocpi | tensai: I have a DVD and a USB drive. I'd like to be able to watch my movie without needing the DVD anymore. |
| 20:28.20 | maquis | ti`ocpi: see PM |
| 20:28.34 | ti`ocpi | maquis: thanks :) |
| 20:28.36 | maquis | :) |
| 20:28.45 | sjansen | What, without paying the MPAA for the privilege? You monster! It's because of people like you that children in Africa are starving. |
| 20:29.02 | maquis | sjansen: i have a friend who made his own movie and distributed it on dvd |
| 20:29.13 | ti`ocpi | sjansen: Yes I'm a horrible horrible person. It's fun! |
| 20:29.13 | maquis | it's actually pretty good... |
| 20:29.28 | maquis | call "sun wu kong wan sui" |
| 20:29.35 | maquis | (he was in my chinese class in high school) |
| 20:30.13 | maquis | it was pretty much about 100 high school kids coming together to make a movie (complete with reasonably good special effects), mostly in chinese... |
| 20:30.25 | maquis | the title means "long live the monkey king" |
| 20:31.05 | maquis | it was about a corporation that creates something called hyper-opium and is trying to use it to enslave the world, and people trying to stop it |
| 20:31.21 | JoshH | i don't know why everyone is excited about the nsa datacenter providing jobs |
| 20:31.29 | JoshH | it will probably just be datacenter tech monkeys |
| 20:31.34 | maquis | JoshH: maybe because they're excited about jobs existing? |
| 20:31.42 | JoshH | and who knows, maybe not even locals |
| 20:31.52 | maquis | doesn't know how employment is in utah... |
| 20:31.57 | JoshH | same as always |
| 20:32.15 | unum | tech market is still ok |
| 20:32.22 | JoshH | people on online comments seem to think they will actually be spying on people from that place |
| 20:32.25 | unum | unskilled labor, not doing so well |
| 20:32.34 | JoshH | but from what i can tell, it will just be a plain old datacenter |
| 20:32.54 | maquis | JoshH: people on online comments will always think that the government will be spying on them |
| 20:32.59 | unum | JoshH: they said it will employ 1200 people |
| 20:33.09 | JoshH | i didn't see that, but that seems high |
| 20:33.20 | JoshH | if so, it will probably be more than just a datacenter |
| 20:33.22 | unum | JoshH: what do YOU think the NSA stores in their datacenters |
| 20:33.53 | tensai | ti`ocpi: my *cough* friend *cough* does that all the time using dvd::rip |
| 20:33.59 | unum | and why would you expect the NSA to give out the full details |
| 20:34.13 | JoshH | i guess when i hear "datacenter", i just take it literally |
| 20:34.23 | ti`ocpi | tensai: That's what I was using ... I'm having problems figuring it out. >_> |
| 20:34.38 | JoshH | and i imagine a bunch of servers in racks and cabinets, with a small handful of employees who do mostly manual labor |
| 20:34.43 | unum | it's the 1200 number that mostly has people questioning that... |
| 20:34.54 | JoshH | but ya, i didn't hear that 1200 number |
| 20:34.59 | unum | but it is a 1 million square feet |
| 20:35.04 | JoshH | it seems concrete details are still scarce |
| 20:35.12 | tensai | ti`ocpi: it is fairly obtuse |
| 20:35.13 | unum | if it's running windows it may take that many admins :) |
| 20:35.14 | JoshH | i'm interested in how they get power and network to it though |
| 20:35.27 | unum | the nsa doesn't generally give out concrete details |
| 20:35.29 | ti`ocpi | tensai: Mind if I pm you? |
| 20:35.32 | unum | I'm suprised we have the ones we have |
| 20:35.38 | JoshH | and why they chose camp williams as a spot, since it doesn't seem to have good network or power there |
| 20:35.41 | unum | of course they could all be fake |
| 20:35.48 | unum | they'll run their own network |
| 20:36.00 | JoshH | well, ya |
| 20:36.04 | unum | and it two main lines running acress it |
| 20:36.07 | unum | across it |
| 20:36.12 | unum | I thought |
| 20:36.32 | JoshH | i dunno, i just picture that area as being desolate and ugly |
| 20:36.57 | JoshH | i feel sorry for anyone who has to work there, especially non-utah natives |
| 20:37.22 | unum | I can see two big sets of power lines on google maps |
| 20:37.50 | JoshH | you would think they would want to build it next to a dam or something |
| 20:38.19 | unum | ya cheaper power. that's why the companies do it there |
| 20:38.26 | unum | but the nsa wants somewhere desolate |
| 20:38.34 | unum | plus they already had personel there |
| 20:38.48 | JoshH | anyway, i'm just skeptical about the job prospects, and it seems the local politicians are getting too excited over it |
| 20:38.54 | unum | you never did say what you thought they stored in their datacenter |
| 20:39.09 | JoshH | well, all kinds of stuff |
| 20:39.26 | unum | the trib reported the 1200 number. and it's still a year and a half from opening |
| 20:39.41 | unum | no, it won't be all kinds of stuff. it will be communications |
| 20:39.50 | JoshH | maybe this conversation will be stored there |
| 20:40.26 | unum | according to a former at&t employee it will atleast be analyzed |
| 20:40.49 | JoshH | maybe it will help them catch osama |
| 20:40.59 | unum | I guess that's not true. the NSA has access to it. weather they analyze or store it is debatable |
| 20:41.03 | unum | maybe. |
| 20:41.34 | unum | they'll certainly be storing al qada communications there |
| 20:41.46 | unum | weather they store ours is up for debate |
| 20:41.51 | unum | but it will be communications |
| 20:42.10 | unum | that they have picked up electronicly one way or an other |
| 20:42.23 | unum | it IS a spying center. |
| 20:42.29 | JoshH | i wonder how much internet traffic they really capture |
| 20:42.57 | unum | they have access to everything that goes through at&t what they do with it we don't know |
| 20:43.02 | JoshH | you would think it would be tough for them to have access to a lot of major exchanges without people knowing about it |
| 20:43.55 | unum | we do know about it |
| 20:44.01 | sjansen | Maybe the 1200 number is construction workers, and taco stands for construction workers, and shoe salesman for construction workers. |
| 20:44.08 | JoshH | we know about the ATT story |
| 20:44.47 | unum | I guess that is only A connection into a major node |
| 20:45.12 | unum | sjansen: the trib implied that it would be tech people, but what do they know ;) |
| 20:45.46 | JoshH | not much |
| 20:45.53 | JoshH | they definitely don't understand utopia very well |
| 20:46.42 | unum | that's true |
| 20:46.48 | unum | or SCO |
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| 21:09.36 | tensai | I can say with certainty that the no government agency (our or otherwise) has placed backdoors on my network |
| 21:09.45 | tensai | of course, we're a small isp so why would they? |
| 21:10.41 | tensai | we do occasionally get subpoenas, and we regularly get mpaa/riaa notices |
| 21:13.36 | maquis | tensai: subpoenas for info related to mpaa/riaa stuff, or subpoenas related to more serious issues? |
| 21:16.06 | sjansen | maquis: Careful what you ask tensai. You'd hate yourself if he said something accidentally and the black helicopters came for him. |
| 21:16.21 | maquis | sjansen: good point... :) |
| 21:16.28 | maquis | he's welcome to take the 5th, of course :) |
| 21:16.55 | maquis | unless i manage to come up with a way to subpoena the information about what types of subpoenas they get... |
| 21:16.58 | sjansen | For all we know, tensai has already been replace by a moderately sophisticated android. |
| 21:19.36 | JoshH | we get lots of subpoenas, usually with the ip of our tor node on them |
| 21:27.20 | maquis | JoshH: can you actually do anything useful with the ip of a tor node? i mean... it seems like there's not a lot of info you could return for a subpoena on that, right? |
| 21:27.50 | JoshH | no logs whatsoever on it |
| 21:28.06 | JoshH | i just have to call the agent and tell them that, and they say oh ok |
| 21:29.02 | JoshH | and if there were logs, ya, they wouldn't be too useful |
| 21:29.33 | maquis | you're not required to log info on tor nodes? |
| 21:29.43 | JoshH | required how? |
| 21:30.17 | maquis | i dunno... i thought ISPs were required to log some amount of info... |
| 21:30.31 | JoshH | nah |
| 21:30.32 | maquis | but i guess I know very little about the working of an ISP, so... |
| 21:30.36 | JoshH | nothing like that |
| 21:30.41 | JoshH | at least not yet |
| 21:30.58 | unum | I think some european countries have passed laws like that |
| 21:31.02 | unum | but nothing in the US yet |
| 21:31.10 | JoshH | ashcroft and gonzalez wanted it here |
| 21:31.12 | JoshH | but nothing ever came of it |
| 21:31.52 | JoshH | the fbi, military, etc actually use tor themselves |
| 21:33.00 | maquis | that makes sense |
| 21:38.12 | tensai | we're required to keep phone records for a minimum of 24 months |
| 21:38.22 | tensai | other than that I'm not aware of any data retention laws |
| 21:38.32 | tensai | maquis: subpoenas for actual crimes |
| 21:40.00 | maquis | tensai: interesting |
| 21:48.26 | goozbach | RT is neato |
| 21:48.48 | Jayce^_ | yes, but you really didn't have the share the imagery you just had on twitter.... |
| 21:48.55 | goozbach | I mention the ticket numbers of related problems in the text field when I'm updating it and it auto links the tickets |
| 21:53.17 | harleypig | Does anyone know of a way to check an address against a MailBoxesEtc location? |
| 21:53.49 | harleypig | (e.g., someone has a unique stree address through MBE, not a store location) |
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| 23:23.01 | aslag | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:23.03 | aslag | ha! |
| 23:25.39 | Sargun_screen | o.O |
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