| 00:38.29 | jsmith | harleypig: Why not just run "ssh-copy-id -P 24021 X.Y.Z.A"? |
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| 01:49.32 | Jayce^ | starts unpacking |
| 01:54.19 | levi | Sweet, I think I've got my audio switcher circuit worked out. |
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| 02:52.35 | levi | And now I've got the parts ordered. Thank you, Digi-Key. :) |
| 03:05.10 | bonez46 | quick question.. we have Windows xp, Mac and linux machines on our home network.. what chat applet can I install on all OSs that will allow us all to chat here on our network with each other? |
| 03:08.41 | elg | lol http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2008/01/12/mitt-romneys-new-ward/ |
| 03:08.55 | elg | (if romney were president and you were the bishop of his ward) |
| 03:08.57 | elg | "8. Can you call the Secret Service agents to help out in Primary?" |
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| 04:34.59 | levi | bonez46: They all support AIM, and you can always chat via google talk in the web browser. |
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| 04:51.28 | bonez46 | levi: thanks |
| 05:02.58 | RyanE | levi: what kind of audio switch you making? For home use? |
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| 16:15.36 | Migs | lol http://bash.org/?891926 |
| 16:15.37 | brac | [QDB: Quote #891926] |
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| 16:20.56 | Sargun | hahah |
| 16:21.01 | Sargun | Migs, clever. |
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| 16:46.50 | harleypig | Can anyone give me some suggestions on how to make elinks my default browser (I'm using kde)? |
| 16:49.46 | harleypig | Good point ... redbeard2 suggested using a terminal with an elinks command ... now I need to remember where the stupid kde settings are. |
| 16:56.32 | sjansen | Doesn't KDE put that under Control Center > Preferred Applications > Web > Custom > Can't > Catch > Me > I'm the Gingerbread Man > Preferred Browser ? |
| 16:59.52 | JoshH | i haven't launched KDE for a very long time |
| 17:04.50 | levi | I tried KDE again recently on an aging laptop. Bad idea. |
| 17:05.11 | levi | It really wants to have hardware compositing now. |
| 17:06.59 | harleypig | I found it: System Settings -> Default Applications -> Web Browser |
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| 17:08.51 | levi | I'm not understanding the combination of KDE and elinks. |
| 17:17.06 | redbeard2 | levi: he uses kde, and when he clicks on a link in an application, he wants it to open in elinks instead of firefox, konq, etc. |
| 17:17.55 | levi | Um, yeah, I understand the technical bits, just not why someone would want that to happen. |
| 17:18.14 | redbeard2 | clearly he realizes that elinks is the superior browser. |
| 17:19.16 | levi | Just like vt220 is superior to X11. :P |
| 17:20.09 | harleypig | well, feh, that's not it |
| 17:21.00 | sjansen | harleypig: I bet it didn't work because you need a wrapper script to open elinks in a terminal and pass the URL. |
| 17:21.05 | harleypig | levi: The problem is that, for some reason, it doesn't matter if I'm reading documentation, a forum thread on a problem or otherwise researching for work, I'm perceived as wasting time if I have a browser window open. |
| 17:21.21 | harleypig | sjansen: yeah, I've already got the script written and it works. |
| 17:21.28 | harleypig | I just need to find the right place to put it. |
| 17:21.46 | sjansen | Did you check where I suggested? |
| 17:21.48 | levi | harleypig: OK, that was the missing bit that makes it make sense. :) |
| 17:22.03 | JoshH | harleypig: sounds like a fantastic workplace... |
| 17:22.11 | harleypig | The 'Can't Catch Me' :> |
| 17:22.23 | JoshH | or maybe they saw you reading the strong vagina article yesterday |
| 17:22.43 | harleypig | JoshH: It is, actually. Other than that. |
| 17:22.53 | harleypig | JoshH: heh, I don't think so. |
| 17:24.17 | unum | strong vagina? I missed something |
| 17:24.19 | harleypig | sjansen: There is no control center anymore that I can find. |
| 17:24.33 | levi | KDE is a freaking mess. |
| 17:24.41 | harleypig | unum: Russian woman made world record for lifting 30lb ball with her vagina |
| 17:25.25 | levi | The new plasma interface appears to finally have some sort of graphic design sense more recent than the early 90s, though. |
| 17:26.32 | harleypig | googling for 'kde default browser' brings up articles in the first 5 positions that date as early as 2002! |
| 17:27.11 | JoshH | harleypig: just play gnome's tetris at full screen all day, then when they complain abot you wasting time, go back to firefox |
| 17:27.52 | JoshH | or kde's tetris, i guess |
| 17:27.55 | harleypig | Sure! I can use firefox to polish up my resume and fill out applications too. |
| 17:28.03 | harleypig | s/out/out job/ |
| 17:28.54 | synic | eggyknap: ping |
| 17:29.11 | eggyknap | synic: pong. |
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| 18:38.51 | sjansen | LWN is awesome. |
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| 19:28.27 | Wegg | Ello |
| 19:34.46 | sjansen | Olle. |
| 19:38.13 | rsimpkins | harleypig: Where is this place, so I can be sure to never apply? |
| 19:38.28 | rsimpkins | Like they'd ever hire me, but you know. ;-) |
| 19:39.15 | Wegg | What is the best way to diagnose sendmail issues? I have one domain on my server that sends and recieves e-mail just fine but another that I can only send from. :-/ |
| 19:39.27 | rsimpkins | Wegg: look at the logfile? |
| 19:39.51 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Open up a telnet session, and pretend you're a smtp client. |
| 19:40.19 | Wegg | There a guide for doing that somewhere? |
| 19:41.10 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Did you add the domain to local-host-names? |
| 19:41.38 | Wegg | Well I'm using a server management package called BlueQuartz |
| 19:41.44 | Wegg | it bolts on top of CentOS |
| 19:41.51 | Wegg | So in theory it should do all that for me. |
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| 19:42.19 | rsimpkins | Wegg: http://docs.hp.com/en/5991-6611/ch02s10.html |
| 19:42.22 | brac | [Troubleshooting Sendmail] |
| 19:43.04 | Wegg | Cool thank you rsimpkins |
| 19:43.05 | rsimpkins | Wegg: What's the domain, I can often tell what the deal is remotley. |
| 19:43.14 | Wegg | www.setuptab.com |
| 19:43.24 | rsimpkins | with or without the www? |
| 19:43.32 | rsimpkins | you have user@www.setuptab.com, or just user@setuptab.com |
| 19:43.52 | Wegg | blinks |
| 19:44.01 | Wegg | I. . . think I have it both ways. |
| 19:45.03 | rsimpkins | Wegg: What is a valid user? |
| 19:45.23 | Wegg | support |
| 19:46.12 | rsimpkins | Wegg: The MTA works just fine. It queues a test message from my server. |
| 19:46.20 | rsimpkins | sent test mail to support@setuptab.com |
| 19:46.30 | rsimpkins | If you didn't get it, your LDA is messed up, not your MTA |
| 19:48.22 | Wegg | didn't get it. :-( |
| 19:48.31 | sjansen | Installing Postfix is the best way to solve any Sendmail problem. |
| 19:49.23 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 19:49.45 | Wegg | Wish that was an option for me. |
| 19:49.51 | rsimpkins | Wegg: There is something wrong locally. Sendmail accepted the message with no errors. |
| 19:50.23 | rsimpkins | Wegg: So, maybe a whacky alias script, or procmail rule, or other strange LDA bug/problem. |
| 19:50.44 | Wegg | hmm |
| 19:51.05 | Wegg | maybe I'll try and create a new account. Support might be getting snagged by something I'm not able to see. |
| 19:51.05 | sjansen | Or an old, forgetten SMTP server stilling running with a valid MX record. ;-) |
| 19:51.10 | rsimpkins | sjansen: BTW, missed your wet t-shirt contest last night. We were all looking forward to it. Most people came just to see you. |
| 19:51.29 | sinuhe | rsimpkins: That was very unpleasent. Shame on you. |
| 19:51.52 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Connected to 156.94.8.72.mstarmetro.net (72.8.94.156) << if this is not your MX, then that's the issue. ;-) |
| 19:52.19 | Jayce^ | sinuhe: at least we didn't see the competition (harleypig) |
| 19:52.46 | rsimpkins | Everyone was ready to see green speedos in action. |
| 19:53.20 | sinuhe | Jayce^: True |
| 19:53.27 | sjansen | Ugh. I don't do speedos. Only Daisy Dukes. |
| 19:53.57 | sinuhe | ducks behind blanket |
| 19:53.58 | rsimpkins | sjansen: The cutoff kind cut so high the pockets hang out the bottom? |
| 19:54.03 | sinuhe | s/nd/nd a/ |
| 19:54.18 | sinuhe | What happened to ibot? |
| 19:54.20 | sjansen | rsimpkins: You know it. |
| 19:54.23 | sinuhe | ~ibot |
| 19:54.24 | ibot | It's me |
| 19:54.28 | sinuhe | Hmmm |
| 19:54.35 | Wegg | ahhh. . . |
| 19:54.46 | Wegg | I created bob@setuptab.com and sent an e-mail to that and it worked! |
| 19:54.52 | Wegg | Yay! |
| 19:55.04 | rsimpkins | Wegg: you might have an alias or other issue affecting support |
| 19:55.09 | Wegg | yup |
| 19:55.16 | Wegg | thank you VERY much rsimpkins |
| 19:55.29 | rsimpkins | Wegg: np, hopefully you get it all ironed out. |
| 19:55.36 | Wegg | meh |
| 19:55.44 | Wegg | I'll just think of another word for support. |
| 19:55.45 | Wegg | :-) |
| 19:56.37 | Wegg | Rampart! |
| 19:56.38 | sjansen | Wegg: it's take you all of 3 seconds to 'grep support /etc/aliases' |
| 19:56.39 | Wegg | :-) |
| 19:56.54 | Wegg | ok. . I'll try that. |
| 19:57.29 | Wegg | support: postmaster |
| 19:57.38 | rsimpkins | odd. |
| 19:57.43 | rsimpkins | Where does postmaster go? |
| 19:57.50 | sjansen | Not that odd. Default value on some distros. |
| 19:58.05 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Really? I find it odd that a distro would make that call. |
| 19:58.17 | Wegg | yea. . . how do I check postmaster's in-box? |
| 19:58.30 | sjansen | grep postmaster /etc/aliases |
| 19:58.34 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Resolve it all the way. grep postmaster /etc/aliases |
| 19:59.28 | Wegg | mailer-daemon: postmaster |
| 19:59.31 | Wegg | postmaster: root |
| 19:59.37 | Wegg | mailman: postmaster |
| 19:59.39 | rsimpkins | grep root /etc/aliases |
| 19:59.44 | Wegg | info: postmaster |
| 19:59.49 | Wegg | marketing: postmaster |
| 19:59.54 | Wegg | sales: postmaster |
| 19:59.57 | rsimpkins | just need to know where root goes. |
| 19:59.59 | Wegg | support: postmaster |
| 20:00.09 | sjansen | I would recommend redirecting postmaster and root to a real person. |
| 20:00.38 | rsimpkins | Or you can redirect it to sjansen. |
| 20:00.48 | Wegg | so I could check "root@setuptab.com" and it would see all those test e-mails I have been sending support@? |
| 20:01.02 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Ensure that root is really being delivered to the root mail box. |
| 20:01.23 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Ideally you want an alias set up like this: root: arealperson |
| 20:01.36 | sjansen | root: sysadmins@example.com |
| 20:02.00 | sjansen | Never put your own address in a config file. I say this from experience. |
| 20:02.39 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Shorter. |
| 20:03.02 | JoshH | i agree with sjansen |
| 20:03.12 | JoshH | send it to an alias that goes to more people |
| 20:03.41 | sjansen | When you hire a new guy, just add him to the list. When you quit, just remove yourself. |
| 20:04.17 | Wegg | K. |
| 20:04.22 | Wegg | This . . . has helped a lot. |
| 20:04.28 | unum | that's what we do here |
| 20:06.44 | sjansen | That and accuse each other being communists and fascists. |
| 20:06.48 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Fortunatly you had a very easy problem to solve. :) |
| 20:07.03 | unum | the owners are all fascists |
| 20:07.03 | levi | sjansen: fascist pig! |
| 20:07.16 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Shhh. You're giving away our secret you communist! |
| 20:07.19 | unum | I'm mean we've done work for the riaa and walmart how much more evidence do you need |
| 20:08.23 | rsimpkins | I think I've figured out the purpose of that big NSA datacenter they wanna build. It is all a sham. They will say it is a datacenter, but the building will be empty. Instead, all the money is being rerouted to a secret bat cave. |
| 20:09.02 | rsimpkins | And since the datacenter has no windows, and will be very secure, no one will ever know what is inside. |
| 20:09.16 | Wegg | easy is relative. :-) |
| 20:09.31 | Wegg | If you guys need any really "hard" 3D animation done. . . i'll be happy to help :-) |
| 20:09.54 | rsimpkins | Wegg: I really like 3d. I mess around with Daz's stuff every now and then. |
| 20:10.03 | Wegg | cool. |
| 20:10.04 | rsimpkins | Except, they won't talk to me. |
| 20:10.09 | Wegg | you should check out setuptab.com then. |
| 20:10.49 | rsimpkins | Before I was a linux geek type I was a 3dsmax user for a multimedia production company. |
| 20:11.54 | levi | I wasted my childhood on computers, so I have to pick up interesting/useful skills as hobbies now as an adult. ;) |
| 20:13.26 | sjansen | Wegg: I want a 30 second clip of rsimpkins ripping his shirt off like Superman. Underneath he's wearing red and blue spandex with a sickle and hammer. Just like Superman he leaps into the air and starts flying. As the scene closes a giant Tux with a fly swatter splatters his guts across a kitchen countertop. |
| 20:13.50 | sjansen | Do you think you could have that ready for me by 4:30? K'thanx. |
| 20:14.34 | Wegg | uhhh. |
| 20:14.37 | Wegg | no |
| 20:14.38 | Wegg | :-) |
| 20:16.56 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Please change the kitchen countertop to inside sjanens home. Place sjansen on top of the kitchen table, dancing in a red dress, singing "i'm a little teapot". |
| 20:17.09 | rsimpkins | sjansen: red is your color. |
| 20:20.49 | Wegg | I had a client send me desgin changes for the lead character of a television pilot. . . 3/4 of the way through production. |
| 20:20.56 | Wegg | Major changes. |
| 20:21.35 | rsimpkins | Wegg: people who do that are often not successful. |
| 20:26.25 | Wegg | they were not. :-( |
| 20:26.29 | Wegg | www.andysairplanes.com |
| 20:26.59 | Wegg | Even after they spent more on marketing then the actual production. . . |
| 20:27.11 | Wegg | surprising huh!?! |
| 20:28.32 | sjansen | Has anyone ever purchased a Packt book and not felt ripped off? |
| 20:30.45 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:31.05 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:31.06 | Wegg | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:31.15 | Wegg | oh |
| 20:31.20 | Wegg | do you post the log!?! |
| 20:31.32 | Wegg | undo undo undo |
| 20:31.51 | Jayce^ | ~logs |
| 20:31.52 | ibot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 20:32.44 | sjansen | See also the channel topic. |
| 20:34.46 | eightyeight | is it still believed that netbsd has the fastest tcp/ip stack? is there any support to back that claim? |
| 20:35.53 | eightyeight | fungus? (i think you're the only bsd guy here?) |
| 20:36.47 | fungus | I think it was FreeBSD that was believed to be the fastest tcp/ip stack, but that was a long time ago. |
| 20:36.55 | Jayce^ | he's not in under a nick I recognize now, but gary thornock is still a big bsd person too |
| 20:37.42 | eightyeight | i've been picking it up recently, and a topic came up about streams versus sockets |
| 20:37.55 | eightyeight | then it migrated to tcp/ip stacks in bsd |
| 20:39.30 | sjansen | Bah, I could beat them all with my super duper RST stack. Any and all TCP packets are immediately met with a RST. No one will ever beat my benchmark numbers! |
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| 21:23.17 | sjansen | http://punditkitchen.com/2009/07/08/political-pictures-sarah-palin-role-model/ |
| 21:23.18 | harleypig | Yeah ... try not to do %!sort -u in vim with source code ... |
| 21:50.35 | sjansen | Bah. The null signal reports zombies as valid. |
| 21:50.44 | sjansen | Makes sense, but also makes my life harder. |
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| 22:06.23 | unum | so I have to do something horrible but I was hoping someone would help me anyways |
| 22:06.44 | unum | I'm setting up a company wide email sig that will include an image |
| 22:07.10 | harleypig | unum: Mine? |
| 22:07.20 | harleypig | That would qualify as horrible |
| 22:07.29 | unum | harleypig: yes, I'm afraid the world will go blind |
| 22:07.45 | harleypig | heh |
| 22:08.12 | unum | do people often send the image as an attachement or do they usually just do it as a link |
| 22:08.54 | eightyeight | i've never done an image in an email signature, save it be ascii art |
| 22:09.11 | eightyeight | html email sucks, sodon't go that route |
| 22:09.18 | eightyeight | s/sodon't/so don't/ |
| 22:09.19 | unum | eightyeight: I agree |
| 22:09.43 | eightyeight | i would think a link would be best, saving bandwidth of those who aren't blessed with broadband |
| 22:09.54 | eightyeight | if they want to see it, they'll click the link |
| 22:10.05 | unum | oh that's what you mean |
| 22:10.25 | eightyeight | isn't it practice by most clients to hide images anyway? i guess that's just html email though |
| 22:10.25 | unum | when I said link I meant <img src='http://> |
| 22:10.34 | eightyeight | ahh |
| 22:10.45 | unum | eightyeight: doesn't matter what most clients do |
| 22:10.52 | unum | most people only use one client |
| 22:11.01 | eightyeight | i understand |
| 22:11.06 | unum | of course our main client uses crackberries |
| 22:11.28 | eightyeight | but thunderbird and gmail both hide inline <img> tags for security to keep them from "calling home" |
| 22:11.34 | unum | ya |
| 22:11.37 | eightyeight | you have to "click to show images" |
| 22:11.39 | unum | but most people don't use those |
| 22:11.45 | unum | atleast not for work |
| 22:11.55 | eightyeight | i don't know what most people use |
| 22:12.06 | unum | yes you do. you just don't want to admit it |
| 22:12.12 | eightyeight | i only know what most clients do |
| 22:12.26 | eightyeight | people or companies? |
| 22:12.35 | eightyeight | i know most employees use outlook |
| 22:12.43 | unum | ya that's what I mean |
| 22:12.44 | eightyeight | i don't know what most non-exployees use |
| 22:12.57 | unum | since this is for work email it will be going to people at their work |
| 22:13.05 | eightyeight | ahh |
| 22:13.23 | eightyeight | you didn't specifiy if this was internal or external |
| 22:13.54 | eightyeight | in that case, do whatever you want |
| 22:14.12 | unum | is there a way to get the image to automatically attach |
| 22:14.23 | eightyeight | using? |
| 22:14.37 | unum | thunderbird or outlook |
| 22:14.50 | eightyeight | will that be generating the email? |
| 22:14.52 | unum | the email will be going out, to employees at other places |
| 22:15.02 | unum | yes they will be generating the email |
| 22:15.22 | eightyeight | yes. thunderbird can auto-attach files |
| 22:16.09 | JoshH | thunderbird is the best gui client overall |
| 22:16.15 | JoshH | not perfect, but the best |
| 22:16.31 | unum | I'm hoping this will be a good excuse to push everyone to thunderbird :) |
| 22:16.38 | eightyeight | "Edit -> Account Settings -> Attach this signature" |
| 22:16.45 | eightyeight | i think will do other files besides text |
| 22:16.58 | unum | it won't do jpeg |
| 22:17.19 | unum | it will do html but then I need to either point back to my own server or attach the jpeg |
| 22:17.30 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 22:18.29 | unum | found it |
| 22:18.59 | eightyeight | <img moz-do-not-send="false" src="file:///C:/image.gif" alt="Signature"> |
| 22:19.01 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 22:19.16 | eightyeight | for an html signature |
| 22:24.06 | unum | now I'll just tell everyone they have to use thunderbird :) |
| 22:25.33 | eightyeight | sweet |
| 22:29.12 | JoshH | you should have a company wide ban on html email or sigs though, of course |
| 22:29.16 | sjansen | http://www.seaglass.com/postfix/faq.html#dsc |
| 22:29.18 | brac | [[Kyle Dent] - Postfix FAQ] |
| 22:29.20 | unum | JoshH: we should |
| 22:29.30 | unum | if I owned the company we would |
| 22:29.44 | JoshH | html email should mean immediate termination |
| 22:30.20 | unum | not that I so much as voiced an objection when I was asked to do this |
| 22:31.24 | eightyeight | html email, top posting, and not wrapping at 72 characters |
| 22:31.31 | eightyeight | 3 big complaints from me re: email |
| 22:31.39 | unum | sometimes my client doesn't wrap right |
| 22:31.51 | unum | probably because I accidently sent it as html |
| 22:32.17 | eightyeight | mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed should be false |
| 22:32.26 | eightyeight | then it will force the wrap |
| 22:32.31 | eightyeight | in your about:config |
| 22:32.50 | eightyeight | it's default now. it used not to be |
| 22:32.50 | JoshH | i've had that in my user.js for years |
| 22:33.01 | JoshH | guess i don't need it there anymore |
| 22:33.30 | unum | stupid fedora |
| 22:33.55 | unum | mine was defaulted to true |
| 22:34.23 | eightyeight | if it's bold, then it was changed from default. normal font should be false |
| 22:34.36 | eightyeight | anyway, time to run. ttyl |
| 22:36.15 | JoshH | Third District Rep. Jason Chaffetz is co-sponsoring the Birthright Citizenship Act, which mandates that citizenship only be extended to a child born in the U.S. when at least one of the parents is already a citizen. |
| 22:37.55 | unum | I hate that guy |
| 22:38.09 | unum | I believe I read he's running for senate |
| 22:38.24 | JoshH | i read that he wouldn't rule it out |
| 22:38.30 | Jayce^ | unum: he's great :) |
| 22:39.29 | levi | Chaffetz is the perfect representative for Jayce^. |
| 22:39.39 | Jayce^ | so far, he's done a great job |
| 22:39.43 | levi | Well, at least as perfect as one gets, anyway. |
| 22:42.34 | levi | So, how does this act work with the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause? |
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| 22:42.57 | unum | levi: it probably just an other publicity stunt |
| 22:43.15 | unum | it won't get anywhere but he can tell his constituents he tried |
| 22:44.13 | stderr | does that retroactively apply? Because I think we all could be in trouble... |
| 22:44.32 | unum | stderr: uh oh. you win. |
| 22:45.00 | Jayce^ | stderr: no, because came in according to laws of the time... most have the signatures to prove it |
| 22:45.25 | stderr | you keep your ancestors signatures handy for proving you're a citizen? |
| 22:45.38 | Jayce^ | stderr: actually yes... remember, I'm active LDS :) |
| 22:45.42 | unum | Jayce^: it said citizen not legaly in the country |
| 22:46.09 | Jayce^ | unum: yeah, that's where I got my sig :) |
| 22:46.10 | levi | Hmm. 79 sponsors, and one of them is a Democrat. |
| 22:46.13 | unum | so while I can prove they were here legally(according to england and/or the us) |
| 22:46.39 | unum | I can't prove they were citizens at the time my ancestors were born |
| 22:46.46 | unum | they very well may not have been |
| 22:46.54 | Jayce^ | in fact, my great great grandpa's signature has been the source of a lot of difficulty for my family, he changed his name when he came in the door |
| 22:47.10 | Jayce^ | unum: and at the time, that's all you needed |
| 22:47.27 | unum | Jayce^: at which time |
| 22:47.33 | unum | ah |
| 22:47.35 | JoshH | i just don't understand why people think the answer is to find ways to keep the mexicans out of here, instead of making becoming a citizen more affordable |
| 22:47.40 | Jayce^ | at many times in our history.. |
| 22:47.40 | unum | but he said what if it was retroactive |
| 22:47.49 | JoshH | and fastwer |
| 22:47.56 | Jayce^ | JoshH: because that's what people want you to think it's all about :) |
| 22:48.03 | JoshH | unless they just hate mexicans... |
| 22:48.19 | JoshH | i want people to pay a small administrative fee, pass a test or two, and get their citizenship |
| 22:48.25 | unum | JoshH: it depresses wages |
| 22:48.31 | unum | that's what this is all about |
| 22:48.47 | unum | not all of it |
| 22:48.52 | unum | a huge part of it is racism |
| 22:48.55 | JoshH | the other problems illegals cause are worse than that |
| 22:49.03 | JoshH | the id theft, the medical expenses, etc |
| 22:49.10 | unum | JoshH: agreed |
| 22:50.01 | JoshH | i drove past the minutemen protest against the slc pd a few weeks ago, and most of the protesters looked like stereotypical nascar fans or dog the bounty hunter |
| 22:50.04 | levi | I think they'd depress wages less if they were here legally. |
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| 22:50.29 | unum | levi: true |
| 22:51.30 | stderr | Jayce^: also I'm moving back to SLC at the beginning of August, we should go shooting |
| 22:51.47 | JoshH | stderr, what for? |
| 22:51.56 | Jayce^ | stderr: coolio, yeah, we go pretty often. |
| 22:52.16 | levi | This also isn't the first time we've been faced with a whole bunch of immigrating poor people from another nation, and ended up with a lot of xenophobic and racist responses. |
| 22:52.52 | Jayce^ | because, of course, anybody that's against the non-legal means of entry must be racist :) |
| 22:53.04 | stderr | I'm half irish and half italian. late 19th century mexican, if you will. |
| 22:53.14 | stderr | JoshH: new job |
| 22:53.28 | JoshH | Jayce^: i don't think that, i just think the answer is to make coming here legally easier. they don't come here illegally because they are lazy or want to be criminals |
| 22:53.32 | stderr | or most likely a new job, I should say. Flying in tomorrow for the last interview |
| 22:53.36 | levi | Jayce^: You're putting words in my mouth that weren't there. |
| 22:53.38 | JoshH | it's because coming legally is extremely difficult and takes a very long time |
| 22:53.47 | Jayce^ | levi: they were in unums :) |
| 22:54.08 | JoshH | cool, you can enjoy the new lack of private clubs |
| 22:54.18 | Jayce^ | JoshH: yes, the legal process is screwed.. but that applies to many things more than immigration :) |
| 22:54.29 | levi | I know several people who are racist against Mexicans, and certainly xenophobic against them. |
| 22:54.30 | Jayce^ | gun laws are screwed, yet I still have to abide by them |
| 22:54.46 | stderr | JoshH: true that. Actual bar crawls! |
| 22:54.51 | Jayce^ | and that gets you a cookie levi? |
| 22:55.30 | levi | No, I'm just making an observation about the feelings behind the political currents. |
| 22:55.51 | Jayce^ | and I know several that aren't... just as astute an observation.. |
| 22:55.58 | Jayce^ | s/mexican/$anything/ |
| 22:56.06 | Jayce^ | dont' think it makes a diff current or not |
| 22:56.33 | JoshH | chaffetz actually looks vaguely mexican to me, anyone know his ethnicity? |
| 22:56.47 | stderr | looks more asian |
| 22:56.48 | levi | There are certainly lots of non-racists that have rational reasons for wanting immigration reform, and they're part of the current too. |
| 22:56.55 | stderr | you, sir, need to get your minority identification straight. |
| 22:57.06 | JoshH | ya, kinda |
| 22:57.35 | JoshH | maybe he's mixed |
| 22:57.49 | stderr | shrugs |
| 22:58.06 | levi | But people with rational reasons for lawmaking, I've found, tend to be in the minority. Most people who are outspokenly for laws are doing so out of some kind of emotional response. |
| 22:58.34 | levi | This applies equally to stuff like gun control laws and immigration control laws. |
| 22:58.59 | JoshH | well, chaffetz got elected by promising to stick mexicans in tents, sherriff joe style |
| 22:59.07 | JoshH | so he has to do something |
| 22:59.53 | unum | a nice unconstitutional law always looks good to neocons :) |
| 23:00.24 | unum | then you can just blame it on activist judges if it's passed and stuck down |
| 23:00.54 | levi | Sometimes there's a good reason for the fears behind these laws, and sometimes there's not, but it's the emotion that gets support, not the reasoning. |
| 23:01.04 | unum | ya |
| 23:01.22 | unum | like gun control, |
| 23:01.31 | stderr | ugh Joe Arpaio |
| 23:01.36 | unum | I really don't see how regulating gun the way they are can reduce gun crime |
| 23:02.29 | stderr | oh come now. |
| 23:02.47 | stderr | whether or not guns are illegal, a hardened criminal will be able to obtain them or modify them to suit their needs. |
| 23:02.53 | unum | I agree |
| 23:03.09 | unum | but there's an emotional reaction to stop stuff like trolley square |
| 23:03.20 | unum | and I'm also not sure more guns are the answer either |
| 23:03.38 | stderr | I'm a promoter of much more weapons education before one is allowed to purchase a firearm, however. |
| 23:03.41 | JoshH | most people in utah would think that more guns are the answer |
| 23:03.54 | JoshH | if more victims at trolley square were armed, someone could have shot the guy sooner |
| 23:04.05 | unum | stderr: I'm with you |
| 23:04.51 | JoshH | i definitely think a proficiency test would be a good thing, but i also doubt a lot of law abiding people carry who don't know what they're doing at all |
| 23:05.09 | stderr | you'd be surprised |
| 23:16.40 | sjansen | If the victims at trolley square were armed, someone would have been shot in the cross fire. |
| 23:16.51 | sjansen | If the victims at trolley square were armed, the terrorists would have won. |
| 23:17.05 | sjansen | If the victims at trolley square were armed, Santa would have adopted the Easter Bunny. |
| 23:17.42 | sjansen | If the victims at trolley square were armed, aliens would have rescued us. |
| 23:18.28 | JoshH | one one hand, we don't want shootouts in our malls |
| 23:18.37 | JoshH | but we don't want all regular people to be sitting ducks either |
| 23:18.58 | JoshH | i think all we can do is allow people to carry who choose to, and make sure they know what they are doing |
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