| 01:20.32 | goozbach | who here runs ubuntu? |
| 01:21.22 | goozbach | what's the ubuntu way of getting into "runlevel 3" (ie no GUI multi-user login, minimal processes)? |
| 02:07.09 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@63.225.228.210) |
| 02:08.26 | jsmith | goozbach: What, it doesn't use inittab like the rest of the civilized world? |
| 02:10.10 | *** join/#utah gR4v3 (n=chatzill@76.113.94.44) |
| 02:11.01 | gR4v3 | this place alive? |
| 02:13.00 | *** part/#utah gR4v3 (n=chatzill@76.113.94.44) |
| 02:14.14 | jsmith | Wow... some people really have no patience |
| 02:32.36 | levi | Mmm, carrots fresh from the garden. |
| 02:39.33 | goozbach | jsmith-away: gdm runs in all runlevels |
| 02:39.43 | goozbach | just killed gdm |
| 02:39.53 | *** join/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75-145-58-209-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:19.38 | *** join/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75-145-58-209-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:12.44 | *** join/#utah undertakingyou (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:16.04 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@techhat.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:27.11 | *** join/#utah fadein_ (n=fadein@c-98-202-157-225.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:30.40 | *** part/#utah fadein_ (n=fadein@c-98-202-157-225.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:51.16 | Supaplex | goozbach: debian leaves that to the admin, and by default runlevels 2,3,4,5 are identical. I'm not sure if ubuntu follows the same logic, but if you don't want a login manager, you can stop, disable or uninstall it (or tweak a custom runlevel) |
| 13:19.31 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 13:20.51 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-21fba20ebb6c055a) |
| 13:20.51 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 13:38.06 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@70.56.105.108) |
| 14:27.51 | *** join/#utah Aliosa27 (n=Aliosa27@206.126.210.66) |
| 14:28.39 | *** part/#utah Aliosa27 (n=Aliosa27@206.126.210.66) |
| 14:53.59 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@97-117-75-80.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:03.11 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:18.21 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@208.110.152.42) |
| 15:36.04 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225) |
| 15:42.08 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@97-117-75-80.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:01.35 | goozbach | Supaplex: yeah I figured that out. I'm running fedora now so it's a non-issue |
| 16:03.13 | sjansen | http://www.linux-magazine.com/w3/issue/69/AppArmor_vs_SELinux.pdf |
| 16:19.59 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 16:25.54 | jalbretsen | ouch: "Magnus Runesson reports he was able to port AppArmor to Ubuntu in less time than it took him to comprehend and modify an SELinux" policy. |
| 16:29.00 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75-148-99-197-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:38.44 | tristanbob_ | anyone know how to stop evolution from line-wrapping at 70 characters? |
| 16:43.20 | sjansen | tristanbob_: Format the text as "Preformatted", but be careful. This way lies deep perversion. |
| 16:45.38 | tristanbob_ | sjansen, that means I have to hit enter on everyline, right? and when people get the message they will get funny wraps. This gets more crazy when they reply and a quote your email |
| 16:46.06 | tristanbob_ | sjansen, I should just edit the source code, make it an option, compile it, and release it as a fork |
| 16:46.14 | sjansen | *shrug* Them's your choices. |
| 16:46.35 | tristanbob_ | hopes people don't realize he can't do step #1 |
| 16:46.59 | tristanbob_ | but I can do step 4.... profit!!! |
| 16:47.31 | unum | I'm not sure how preformatted is different than what you want |
| 16:47.45 | unum | do you just want it to wrap at a different column |
| 16:49.07 | tristanbob_ | unum, I want it to wrap dynamically based on the width of hte window |
| 16:49.34 | tristanbob_ | isn't that what most text editors do? |
| 16:49.53 | unum | but it's not a text editor ;) |
| 16:50.17 | unum | it works more like a word processor in that sense I guess |
| 16:50.39 | unum | if you send it as html does it still auto wrap at 70? |
| 16:50.50 | unum | s/send/edit as |
| 17:02.40 | sjansen | tristanbob_: Wrapping email at 70 is a strong tradition. It leaves enough room for replies to be quotes a couple of times while still fitting within 80 columns. |
| 17:03.16 | tristanbob_ | unum, good question. but I thought html email is bad etiquet |
| 17:03.22 | sjansen | BTW, no decent text editor does any auto-wrapping by default. |
| 17:03.26 | sjansen | text editor == vim |
| 17:03.37 | sjansen | word processor == OpenOffice.org |
| 17:03.55 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Ha! What about NOTEPAD! Suckah! ;-) |
| 17:04.05 | tristanbob_ | text = words |
| 17:04.23 | tristanbob_ | words = text? |
| 17:04.31 | sjansen | rsimpkins: _decent_ editor |
| 17:04.40 | unum | text=ascii |
| 17:05.47 | tristanbob_ | "Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Docs and Google Talk â both enterprise and consumer versions â are now out of beta." |
| 17:05.53 | tristanbob_ | is the world going to end??? |
| 17:05.57 | sjansen | Nano also does auto-wrapping. We have to warn student how to avoid it so they don't corrupt their config files. |
| 17:05.57 | unum | yes |
| 17:06.27 | unum | on fedora vim does auto wrapping |
| 17:06.41 | rsimpkins | sjansen: My first editor was pico. Sadly. :( |
| 17:06.41 | unum | but that probably because the redhat guys mucked with it |
| 17:06.55 | unum | mine was ms dos edit |
| 17:11.18 | jsmith | mine was superscript on the C64, and edlin in DOS |
| 17:11.45 | unum | I don't know what I used on our C128 |
| 17:11.48 | unum | but I did type code |
| 17:11.57 | unum | I think I did it all from the commandline |
| 17:12.11 | RyanE | Mine was the Apple II monitor ROM. |
| 17:12.33 | RyanE | Actually, I suppose there was a built-in editor in Integer ROM / Applesoft ROM. |
| 17:12.41 | jsmith | unum: Did you ever boot into CPM on your C128? |
| 17:12.47 | RyanE | All upper-case, baby! |
| 17:12.51 | jsmith | gives three cheers for the Z80 chip |
| 17:13.20 | sjansen | unum: Whatcha talkin'bout, Willis? Vim doesn't auto-wrap on Fedora. |
| 17:14.36 | sjansen | high fives RyanE |
| 17:14.41 | unum | sjansen: on my brand new fedora 11 install it does |
| 17:14.56 | unum | no changes to the vimrc file |
| 17:15.11 | unum | jsmith: no. mostly went into 64 mode and played games :) |
| 17:15.17 | sjansen | Are we talking about screen wrapping or actually inserting new lines? Because it screen wraps, but if you pay attention to the ruler, you're still on one line. |
| 17:15.33 | unum | sjansen: ah sorry I was thinking screen wrap |
| 17:15.40 | unum | which what I think he really wanted |
| 17:21.23 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq_ (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:35.30 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp13.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:35.33 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 17:35.43 | elg | http://lwn.net/Articles/340132/#Comments |
| 17:35.47 | elg | er, scroll up to the email |
| 17:35.56 | elg | about all the browsers' reasons for being difficult |
| 17:36.07 | elg | the last one is classic. "Microsoft has not commented on their intent to support <video> at all. |
| 18:04.31 | Sargun | Pants. |
| 18:04.33 | Sargun | ~pants |
| 18:04.33 | ibot | ACTION divides by zero |
| 18:04.46 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:12.40 | goozbach | -pants |
| 18:14.35 | sjansen | Whoa! RHEL 5.4 beta includes ksmctl in the KVM package. Does that mean it'll ship with KSM support?! |
| 18:16.48 | goozbach | sjansen: what's KSM? kernel shared memory? |
| 18:21.17 | sjansen | http://lwn.net/Articles/306642/ |
| 18:23.25 | sjansen | RHEL 5.4 KVM includes support for SPICE. For a long time now, I've been trying to figure out what the heck SPICE is. |
| 18:23.29 | sinuhe | sjansen: Re: AppArmor. The interesting question is whether SUSE still defends AppArmor superiority. |
| 18:24.31 | sjansen | The qspice package is supposed to contain a client application. All it contains is documentation claiming its licensed under the GPL, but no binaries. |
| 18:24.32 | goozbach | sjansen: I'd imagine that even harder to google than ksm |
| 18:25.10 | sjansen | Thankfully qspice-libs actually contains binaries. Stripped, of course. |
| 18:25.21 | sjansen | To the -devel, Robin! |
| 18:25.48 | sjansen | qspice-libs-devel includes xulrunner-devel as a dependency. |
| 18:26.31 | sjansen | I mean WTF?! Why does a virtualization protocol require a Web browser engine to compile? |
| 18:26.35 | goozbach | *blink* |
| 18:26.42 | goozbach | *blink* |
| 18:29.37 | unum | what's the appropriate way to handle encrypted email if multiple need to decrypt? |
| 18:31.06 | *** join/#utah toofer (n=toofer@kjordan.securesites.net) |
| 18:31.15 | harleypig | wonders about the spice girls |
| 18:33.31 | ^Migs^ | wonders why the sun only comes up during the day and not at night when it would be more useful for seeing in the dark |
| 18:34.03 | sjansen | unum: If there are multiple people listed in the To:, GPG will include a decryption key for each person in your keyring. |
| 18:34.27 | sjansen | IOW, it should just work automagically. |
| 18:34.43 | unum | that's nice to know. too bad we don't do that right.... |
| 18:35.03 | unum | our client typically sends to an alias which has the correct people listed |
| 18:36.00 | elg | sjansen: does GPG see the whole message, headers and all, or does the MUA just call out to it? |
| 18:36.16 | elg | i.e. is it the MUA doing the automagic you refer to |
| 18:36.49 | elg | unum: if you don't know who you're encrypting for at encryption time, then it seems some kind of shared key is your only option |
| 18:37.28 | unum | elg: thanks. That's what were doing now which seems really wrong |
| 18:37.45 | unum | I would think we should use unshared keys atleast for sending out |
| 18:37.50 | elg | why? |
| 18:38.03 | unum | I just realized how study my last sentance was |
| 18:38.08 | unum | since we are using the clients key |
| 18:38.22 | stderr | gawsh I like HAML and Sass |
| 18:38.25 | elg | if that key has the explicit purpose of being used to unencrypt this multicast message |
| 18:38.31 | elg | ~HAML++ |
| 18:38.43 | unum | ya that makes sense |
| 18:39.05 | unum | we have in on network share |
| 18:39.10 | unum | and copy to each person's computer |
| 18:39.12 | elg | now, if you took joe@example.com's private key and gave it to everyone else so they could decrypt it... that might be bad ;-) |
| 18:39.23 | unum | someone's laptop was stolen and we still haven't updated it |
| 18:39.44 | unum | I think it is set up as the "company" private key |
| 18:42.20 | unum | pashdown: is tonights meeting mostly about administrative type stuff? |
| 18:46.21 | pashdown | formatory |
| 18:46.30 | *** join/#utah {{liez}} (i=hed@plz.donthaq.me) |
| 18:46.32 | pashdown | get people's input and see the warehouse |
| 18:46.42 | pashdown | i'll also have a draft of the articles of organization |
| 18:47.28 | sjansen | My understanding is that GPG picks a symmetric key to encrypt the message, which it then hashes, the key and the hash are included as attachments encrypted with the receivers public key. If there are multiple receivers, there will be multiple attachments. |
| 18:47.58 | sjansen | I don't know who actually handles the the grunt work, but expect it's either GPG or GPG-ME. |
| 18:48.23 | sjansen | unum, pashdown: ? |
| 18:48.39 | pashdown | http://peteashdown.org/journal/2009/07/07/the-electroregeneration-society/ |
| 18:54.08 | unum | sjansen: thanks for your help |
| 18:54.28 | unum | I sent that to sllug I should probably send it to plug as well |
| 18:55.09 | *** part/#utah Until_It_Sleeps (i=hed@plz.donthaq.me) |
| 19:15.38 | sjansen | And the winner of the really weird design is... |
| 19:15.45 | sjansen | http://libguestfs.org/ |
| 19:15.46 | sjansen | http://libguestfs.org/guestfs.3.html#state_machine_and_low_level_event_api |
| 19:28.12 | unum | I really should have looked at his post a little better before I sent those emails |
| 19:28.23 | unum | i think I may have been misleading about it's purpose |
| 19:28.44 | unum | though I agree with it's real purpose more than I do with what I thought it's purpose was.... |
| 19:28.57 | levi | returns from a bike ride. |
| 19:30.30 | levi | pashdown: Awesome. |
| 19:57.18 | rsimpkins | sjansen: Have you set up domain keys before? |
| 19:57.30 | sjansen | Nope. |
| 19:58.11 | rsimpkins | It seems to be getting a lot of support, and I'm considering adding support for it. |
| 19:58.28 | unum | does this say match one or two digits : /\d?\d/ |
| 19:58.35 | rsimpkins | I don't think plug.org has much forge protection. |
| 19:58.51 | jalbretsen | rsimpkins: Are you talking about DNS domain keys? |
| 19:58.52 | sjansen | When I looked at it several years ago, it was very clearly the best path forward, but the infrastructure wasn't there. |
| 19:59.19 | rsimpkins | jalbretsen: Yes. |
| 19:59.21 | sjansen | unum: yes |
| 19:59.33 | unum | sjansen: thanks |
| 19:59.47 | rsimpkins | sjansen: The infrustructure meaing support for the MTAs? |
| 20:00.20 | sjansen | MTA support, sites actually using it, implications fully tested. |
| 20:01.02 | rsimpkins | It seems to be a little more mature now. and there are some good docs on the interwebs describing how to adjust my tubes. |
| 20:02.09 | jalbretsen | I've added them to BIND zone files before, they were given to me. I had to add check-names master ignore; to the options in named.conf to get it to play nice |
| 20:02.15 | jalbretsen | CentOS 5.3 |
| 20:02.22 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@97-117-75-80.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:04.25 | rsimpkins | jalbretsen: Thanks for the tip. Hopefully I don't run in to that issue. |
| 20:13.03 | unum | does anyone know if facebook advertising is per click? |
| 20:13.11 | unum | ah found it |
| 20:13.21 | unum | cpc or cpm |
| 20:13.25 | unum | anyone know a price rang? |
| 20:34.18 | whiteley | facebook has ads? |
| 20:35.18 | *** join/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75-145-58-209-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:39.21 | maquis | apologizes to whoever tried to say something to her while she was not around... i can't look back far enough to see who it was |
| 20:40.28 | maquis | ok... i have a really insanely stupid question for people here... |
| 20:41.07 | maquis | i'm trying to do a select-all button for a group of checkboxes... but the "values" of the checkboxes are non-numerical... |
| 20:41.38 | maquis | all the examples i can find online seem to assume that the values are numerical (and in-order, starting with 1) |
| 20:49.50 | sjansen | maquis: Don't look on value, loop on DOM or ID. |
| 20:50.19 | maquis | sjansen: ok... i'll see if i can figure that out. |
| 20:50.21 | maquis | thx |
| 20:50.49 | sjansen | Is this for work? 'Cause if it ain't, I'd recommend letting jQuery do the heavy lifting. |
| 20:51.18 | maquis | jquery isn't an option... :) |
| 20:51.38 | maquis | but that's good to know for the future... never used jquery before |
| 20:51.54 | sjansen | Something like: $('#foo form input['type'='checkbox']).each.check() |
| 20:52.25 | sjansen | Note, that won't actually work. It's pseudo-code in the same spirit as jQuery. |
| 20:54.54 | maquis | sjansen: cool |
| 21:00.32 | goozbach | I second sjansen's idea |
| 21:00.33 | unum | I really wish there was some sort of standard for handling times and dates |
| 21:00.49 | goozbach | do it by id/class in the dom |
| 21:00.52 | sjansen | unum: There is. |
| 21:01.10 | unum | sjansen: every programming language seems to handle it differently |
| 21:01.19 | unum | with some languages having multiple methods |
| 21:01.44 | sjansen | Well, that's because they've ignored the standards. Or we're talking about two different types of standards. |
| 21:02.03 | unum | what are the standards |
| 21:02.05 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 |
| 21:02.33 | sjansen | I talking about things like "start of week", "calculating timezones, leap years, leap seconds, etc." |
| 21:02.44 | sjansen | Representing dates. |
| 21:03.03 | sjansen | You're probably talking about API and implementation of standards. |
| 21:03.27 | unum | sjansen: ya I meant the api |
| 21:03.31 | sjansen | In which case you're right, a depressingly large number of languages completely ignore the standards, not realizing how complex time is. |
| 21:03.39 | unum | I switch between four different languages |
| 21:04.06 | sjansen | Time is PITA. The more I've learned about proper handling of time, the less I want to do it myself and the more I want a library. |
| 21:04.07 | unum | make that give |
| 21:04.14 | unum | five |
| 21:04.25 | unum | i should just execute an sql query..... |
| 21:05.13 | goozbach | wow, cpan just asked if I wanted to install a shortcut |
| 21:05.20 | goozbach | I didn't know about perl shortcuts |
| 21:05.31 | sjansen | So long as you're only supporting one database, that's not as crazy as it sounds. Postgres has rocking date and time support that is mostly correct. MySQL or SQLite on the other hand.... |
| 21:06.33 | unum | I find it easiest to do things in postgresql |
| 21:30.12 | jsmith | unum: Just program your own API using the "Doomsday Algorithm" |
| 21:32.41 | sjansen | Bummer. |
| 21:33.07 | jsmith | sjansen: Bummer? |
| 21:33.32 | sjansen | They're testing our buildings fire alarm. Turns out that that with my Bose headphones on, I basically can't hear it, and the slight sound I can hear blends in well to the music. :-( |
| 21:33.53 | jsmith | sjansen: Beauty, eh?!? |
| 21:34.07 | sjansen | From this I surmise, in the event of a fire I'm doomed. |
| 21:34.57 | jsmith | sjansen: In the event of fire, many of us are doomed |
| 21:37.53 | maquis | sjansen: at one of the places i interned for a while, the fire alarm would go off unintentially about once every week or two |
| 21:38.09 | maquis | all the devs would reach over and put their headphones on when it went off |
| 21:38.45 | maquis | the managers had to go around to every person on their team and remind them that they actually were required to leave the building |
| 21:39.13 | jalbretsen | pffft. requirements |
| 21:39.15 | maquis | i was hourly, so for me it was a free hour every week or two :) |
| 21:39.37 | maquis | still was quite annoying if i was in the middle of something and actually making good progress |
| 21:40.29 | maquis | the not-so-funny part was that the fire department was supposed to respond each time... when there was an actual issue that caused the fire alarm to go off, someone had to call them manually |
| 21:57.20 | *** part/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75-145-58-209-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:06.10 | *** join/#utah toofer (n=toofer@kjordan.securesites.net) |
| 22:53.28 | *** join/#utah programm1rq (n=jefferya@saffron.programmerq.net) |
| 22:54.23 | programm1rq | I've seen conflicting reports as to the topic of the PLUG meeting tomorrow. Which one is right? open mic or kvm/qemu? |
| 23:03.10 | sjansen | open mic |
| 23:03.15 | sjansen | kvm/qemu was last month |
| 23:03.54 | rsimpkins | programm1rq: We are doing an open mic meeting. |
| 23:04.10 | rsimpkins | programm1rq: Come and bring something to show off, ssh to your server, pop up a web browswer, something. |
| 23:04.14 | rsimpkins | programm1rq: plug.org for details. |
| 23:22.48 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:22.48 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |