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| 01:59.02 | goozbach | there's an option to ssh to forward key based auth as well |
| 01:59.10 | goozbach | you should look into that toofer |
| 01:59.17 | goozbach | and he's gone |
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| 04:07.47 | predictable | what is this channel about? |
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| 06:44.53 | jbulb | Are there any non-geeky Utah-specific chat methods? |
| 06:55.03 | Sargun | HAM radio. |
| 06:55.16 | jbulb | :D nicely done |
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| 08:09.21 | Supaplex | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aAdVw-zn3CU/SaWj-t_wFmI/AAAAAAAADlI/0XXsueTlvq0/s1600-h/bikelock.jpg |
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| 14:30.46 | ^Migs^ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8118257.stm |
| 14:30.49 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | 'Stoned wallabies make crop circles'] |
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| 14:39.38 | ^Migs^ | This is a rather touchy subject, but the article is good: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8115219.stm |
| 14:39.41 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Africa | South African rapist: 'Forgive me'] |
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| 16:00.44 | tristanbob | strange, three windows servers on three different networks had a software failure on their NICs, within 5 mins |
| 16:01.23 | tristanbob | ipconfig shows a blank space, no NIC or IP info |
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| 16:18.00 | levi` | Good morning. |
| 16:18.02 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@97-117-75-80.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:19.03 | levi | Hi, sjansen. |
| 16:19.12 | sjansen | Hi, levi |
| 16:20.26 | levi | Wassup, dude? |
| 16:27.54 | Sargun | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8118257.stm |
| 16:27.57 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | 'Stoned wallabies make crop circles'] |
| 16:28.57 | sjansen | Poking around the virt-manager code trying to figure out how to get gtkvnc to play nice with scroll bars. |
| 16:44.01 | tensai | tristanbob: sounds like the work of communist sympathizers. time for a mccarthy-esque witch hunt. |
| 16:44.46 | Jayce^ | loads some brush under a stake for tenasai...... load 'em up :) |
| 16:44.50 | tristanbob | tensai, right now we are thinking it was related to a mcaffee update |
| 16:45.39 | tensai | tristanbob: I've got no problem with you burning mcafee at the stake either |
| 16:45.57 | tensai | maybe your commies broke my usb too |
| 16:46.20 | tensai | my mouse works ok, but my mp3 player and scanner won't attach |
| 16:46.32 | tensai | "hub 5-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2" |
| 16:46.44 | tensai | and "usb 5-2: device not accepting address 37, error -71" |
| 16:48.45 | *** part/#utah efghph (n=efghph@166-70-187-130.ip.xmission.com) |
| 16:49.15 | tensai | Jayce^: saw an email sig that you'd like. "Remember the average response time to a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a 357 magnum is 1400 FPS." |
| 16:50.50 | Jayce^ | yeah, there is a similar one about "when a criminal is in your house, the police are only minutes away" |
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| 17:22.46 | harleypig | Farah Fawcett died. :( |
| 17:22.53 | harleypig | There goes my teen fantasies. |
| 17:30.05 | Jayce^ | anybody have another bleach bottle, just ran out when pouring it in my eyes.. |
| 17:31.05 | neybar | I have some |
| 17:33.25 | tensai | Jayce^: some things can't be erased so easily |
| 17:34.27 | tensai | thunderbird++ |
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| 17:45.52 | tensai | thunderbird seems to have solved the problems I had with evolution and kmail |
| 17:46.50 | tensai | still kind of a memory hog though |
| 17:57.19 | tristanbob | anyone using magicjack? how about google voice? |
| 18:06.26 | tensai | I heard something bad about magicjack but now I can't recall what it was |
| 18:09.51 | tensai | this might have been it, which to me sounds like somebody stretching to find an ulterior motive. http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/03/12/magicjack_far_from_enchanting/?page=2 |
| 18:09.52 | brac | [MagicJack far from enchanting - The Boston Globe] |
| 18:11.30 | tensai | or it was the odd ball eula which says they'll analyze your calls in order to advertise to you. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/04/14/magicjacks-eula-says.html |
| 18:16.33 | tristanbob | how do they advertise to you? voice messages? |
| 18:16.53 | tristanbob | tensai, also, magicjack doesn't support linux, but has plans too |
| 18:17.13 | tensai | I'm not seeing a clear answer to that |
| 18:17.24 | tensai | maybe they interrupt your phone conversations? |
| 18:20.48 | ^Migs^ | actually MagicJack sounds interesting from that Boston article |
| 18:20.55 | ^Migs^ | the things they see as cons, I see as pros |
| 18:22.30 | ^Migs^ | like their preference for chat support vs. voice support. I prefer just hopping online and instantly getting support, rather than wading through an automated phone service |
| 18:22.49 | ^Migs^ | lol @ The online helpers were courteous and diligent, but the endless typing nearly wore me out. |
| 18:28.29 | tristanbob | tensai, I agree, it does have a lot of sleaziness about it (magic jack) |
| 18:29.07 | tristanbob | heheh I hate typing to talk to people...... << awkward pause >> |
| 18:29.37 | tristanbob | it used ot have a fake javascript counter, auto-incrementing the customer count |
| 18:29.49 | tristanbob | and the fake urgency, "this deal is for today only!" |
| 18:30.17 | Sargun | I've heard a lot about this magic jack device. |
| 18:30.22 | Sargun | What is it? How does it work? |
| 18:30.33 | tristanbob | just a usb device, that uses voip |
| 18:30.55 | tristanbob | you plug a real phone into it (or use a headset) |
| 18:31.01 | tristanbob | unlimited calling for $20/year |
| 18:31.40 | tristanbob | I've seen it in use. decent call quality, even over a wireless network |
| 18:32.00 | TehLaser | heard a rumor that google voice is opening to new users today. |
| 18:32.08 | tristanbob | http://blog.laptopmag.com/magicjack-inventor-plans-linux-support-improved-customer-service-and-more |
| 18:32.13 | Sargun | They assume you don't call for more than 5000 min a year? |
| 18:32.16 | Sargun | hm... |
| 18:32.28 | tristanbob | TehLaser, http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/google-voice-invites-on-their-way.html |
| 18:32.42 | tristanbob | Sargun, where do you get 5000 mins? |
| 18:33.33 | Sargun | tristanbob, .4 cents a minute sounds reasonable as a whole cost |
| 18:33.47 | tristanbob | I am thinking that magicjack + googlevoice is a killer combination |
| 18:34.17 | tristanbob | Sargun, not sure what they are expecting average use to be, it must be a gamble (like most unlimited services) |
| 18:34.59 | Sargun | I was thinking more biological weapons and nuclear weapons to be a killer combination |
| 18:36.07 | TehLaser | Sargun: just be careful your nuke doesn't cause your bio to mutate. (why hello there NSA) |
| 18:36.49 | Sargun | Why not let the Bio mutate? (Hey, how's the weather in Fort Meade?) |
| 18:36.51 | sjansen | realizes that something must be done about the California threat quickly before it's too late |
| 18:37.34 | Sargun | tristanbob, What kind of transport are they using? |
| 18:37.42 | sjansen | Californians have proven they're determined to have their cake and eat it too. |
| 18:37.57 | ^Migs^ | I'm seriously considering signing up with MagicJack |
| 18:38.06 | sjansen | At this point, their only option is to start stealing other people's cake. |
| 18:38.18 | Sargun | sjansen, We deserve the Cake more than you. |
| 18:38.21 | ^Migs^ | despite some of the negative reviews, and claims they spy on your phone calls. I have nothing to hide. |
| 18:38.28 | sjansen | It's only a matter of time before California tries to invade and overthrow either Oregon or Nevada. |
| 18:38.45 | Sargun | sjansen, Nah, Those guys are pretty cool. We're looking at taking over Mexico. |
| 18:38.56 | sjansen | My money's on them invading Oregon first. |
| 18:39.00 | ^Migs^ | why on earth would you want Mexico? |
| 18:39.04 | ^Migs^ | then you inherit all their problems |
| 18:39.17 | ^Migs^ | at least only invade the coastal resort cities |
| 18:39.27 | ^Migs^ | I'd be cool with that |
| 18:39.27 | Sargun | ^Migs^, What problems? We have enough weapons in California to wipe out the entire human population |
| 18:39.41 | ^Migs^ | well, that's one solution |
| 18:39.48 | Sargun | And that's where we get our weed. |
| 18:39.50 | Sargun | :-P |
| 18:43.41 | Sargun | I believe I have you beat. |
| 18:44.27 | ^Migs^ | No you don't. I'm not the one living in Mexico. |
| 18:44.53 | stderr | Are people really making the assumption that California is a somehow disconnected from the rest of you? |
| 18:45.24 | Sargun | No, I'm quite connected to california |
| 18:45.29 | stderr | If California falls, a lot of conditional economies in other states fall. I'd start praying for Californians. |
| 18:45.32 | Sargun | Being inside of it and all... |
| 18:45.38 | Sargun | Yes, pray for me.. |
| 18:45.52 | stderr | yea, I'm 15 minutes from the border, Sargun. and I'm well aware you're in California. |
| 18:46.31 | Sargun | stderr, Cool. |
| 18:46.47 | Sargun | The situation isn't quite as dire as many depict it I'd say |
| 18:47.02 | Sargun | but, it's still pretty nasty |
| 18:47.12 | stderr | well, no. But the "Us versus ARRGGHHH THOSE LIBURAL CALIFORNIANS" I hear is pretty ridiculous. |
| 18:47.24 | stderr | durn liburals hurrr |
| 18:47.34 | Sargun | hah |
| 18:47.45 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.45 | stderr | (I hear it a lot, I'm in Nevada) |
| 18:48.16 | Sargun | Xuxa? |
| 18:48.28 | Sargun | o.O |
| 18:48.37 | Sargun | slowly backs away from sjansen |
| 18:48.46 | Sargun | stderr, Ah, isn't Nevada still pretty liberal? |
| 18:48.54 | stderr | Nevada is pragmatic. |
| 18:49.42 | sjansen | Nevada is more Conversative Libertarian than Liberal, especially outside of Las Vegas. |
| 18:49.49 | unum | ya it all depends on your definition of liberal |
| 18:50.32 | unum | I agree with sjansen |
| 18:50.47 | stderr | Nevada isn't easily hedged into any sort of political ideology. |
| 18:51.24 | stderr | very non-partisan and non-ideological. |
| 18:51.28 | stderr | Pragmatic, as I said. |
| 18:51.45 | JoshH | i wish utah was a swing state |
| 18:52.43 | Sargun | FF 3.5rc2 is out! |
| 18:53.07 | unum | I just wish we could rid of a few of the really crazy ones |
| 18:53.12 | TehLaser | Well, considering that Nevada's primary export is it's sovreiginity... |
| 18:53.23 | unum | ? |
| 18:53.47 | sjansen | stderr: No doubt you have a more positive opinion of Nevada than I do, but I have a hard time calling it pragmatic. |
| 18:53.48 | TehLaser | Nevada derives most of its revenue from taxing things that are illegal elsewhere. |
| 18:54.04 | tensai | sjansen: have you been to oregon lately? the californians are already starting to colonize. |
| 18:54.08 | TehLaser | They exploit the sovreiginity of a state as a "natural" resource. :) |
| 18:54.33 | tensai | TehLaser: well when your second choice is sagebrush, there aren't many options |
| 18:54.43 | stderr | tensai: Or numerous metals... |
| 18:54.46 | sjansen | tensai: That's part of my reasoning. Oregon is going to feel more like home to most Californians than Nevada ever will. |
| 18:55.04 | TehLaser | This isn't a bad thing... it just kinda explains the "pragmatic libertarian" attitude. |
| 18:55.14 | JoshH | i like pragmatic libertarianism |
| 18:55.17 | sjansen | Mines and prisons, the two major industries of rural Nevada. |
| 18:55.29 | unum | I was talking to a coworker in oregon who moved from california and became less liberal |
| 18:55.30 | Sargun | sjansen, Wait, you were being serious? You actually think we're going to invade someone? |
| 18:55.36 | JoshH | it's better than either religious conservatism, or un-pragmatic libertarianism |
| 18:55.45 | unum | because of what she see as abuse of the welfare system in eugene |
| 18:55.46 | tensai | sjansen: and mines that are prisons for toxic waste. if only there was a way to gamble on that, they'd have a trifecta. |
| 18:56.02 | TehLaser | JoshH: indeed, I like it too. |
| 18:56.02 | sjansen | I don't consider Nevada low esteem for education or the poor performance of its educational system very pragmatic. |
| 18:56.38 | TehLaser | sjansen: that's just a long vs. short time horizon thing. |
| 18:56.41 | unum | tensai: they can make the prisoner race cars and people can gamble on that! |
| 18:56.58 | TehLaser | "pragmatisim" doesn't really play into it. |
| 18:57.28 | sjansen | Sargun: No, actually I expect the price of you bonds to increase as investors increasingly fear an impending default. |
| 18:57.46 | TehLaser | or, if it does, what it has to say is "worry about now now, worry about later later" |
| 18:58.27 | JoshH | the thing that bugs me about the california bashing from people in other states is those people never acknowledge how much california's economy pays for and subsidizes other states and projects around the country |
| 18:58.35 | sjansen | Although the California constitution will help to protect bond rates some, it'll do so by shifting the burden onto local industry providing services to the state, killing them slowly and painfully. |
| 18:58.35 | JoshH | its gdp dwarfs everyone else's |
| 18:58.47 | JoshH | but somehow it's just a bunch of liberals there that can't manage anything |
| 19:00.12 | stderr | but if you try to stereotype Utahns, much gnashing of the teeth occurs. And they don't offer anything near what California does. *shrug* |
| 19:00.15 | stderr | off to lunch |
| 19:01.12 | tensai | well, both my wives agree that californians are just a bunch of no-good hippies |
| 19:01.19 | rsimpkins | Hrm. Why? Utah apparently has some of the lowest crime raters per capita in the country. In almost ever major crime type Utah is well below the national average. Murder, robbery, assault. All except one. Rape. In that department Utah has a higher rate than the nation avg. |
| 19:01.31 | rsimpkins | Anyone have any clue why this is the case? |
| 19:01.40 | JoshH | i don't |
| 19:01.50 | JoshH | all i know is there are areas here where i feel safe and areas where i don't, just like anywhere |
| 19:01.54 | Jayce^ | lots of hotties.. |
| 19:02.11 | rsimpkins | Hotties don't rape people, rapists do. |
| 19:02.16 | JoshH | i've never heard we were high on the list for rape though |
| 19:02.16 | Jayce^ | :-p |
| 19:02.28 | JoshH | child abuse and molestation, yes though |
| 19:02.31 | rsimpkins | JoshH: http://www.justice.utah.gov/Research/Crime/rape.html |
| 19:02.32 | brac | [Rape] |
| 19:02.53 | JoshH | mostly among the polygs and other fundies |
| 19:03.29 | JoshH | if i was a californian right now, i'd be pissed about getting an IOU instead of a tax refund |
| 19:03.37 | JoshH | but other than that, i'd like it there quite a bit |
| 19:04.07 | rsimpkins | California should be split in to two different states. Northern and southern CA. |
| 19:04.32 | JoshH | ya, and utah should be 2 states also |
| 19:04.35 | JoshH | salt lake, and the rest :) |
| 19:05.09 | JoshH | seriously though, why do you think CA should split like that? |
| 19:05.16 | TehLaser | Eh, park city might not be "the rest" |
| 19:05.34 | JoshH | true |
| 19:05.41 | JoshH | and throw moab in there somehow |
| 19:06.18 | TehLaser | We can have a state with an exclave, right? |
| 19:07.20 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Well, I guess I just think it is kind of obvious. Different cultural views geographically, problems with trying to get important legislation passed, financial reasons, etc. |
| 19:07.44 | JoshH | i think they like being a diverse state |
| 19:07.52 | JoshH | at least the liberals do :P |
| 19:08.28 | ^Migs^ | wow, what happened between 1988 and 1994? |
| 19:08.43 | ^Migs^ | of course, rape isn't counted unless it's actually reported |
| 19:08.45 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: In those crime stats? It says because of better reporting. |
| 19:08.51 | ^Migs^ | right |
| 19:09.06 | rsimpkins | Which makes me wonder how bad it REALLY was before then. |
| 19:09.08 | ^Migs^ | maybe Utah just reports rape better than the rest of the U.S. |
| 19:09.21 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: But not other crimes? That does not make much sense. |
| 19:09.23 | ^Migs^ | so we might still be way below the national average :) |
| 19:09.49 | rsimpkins | We are REALLY good about reporting rape. Violent assults, mmm, not so much. |
| 19:10.16 | ^Migs^ | rape is kind of the hot button nowadays |
| 19:10.24 | ^Migs^ | everyone's crying rape |
| 19:10.27 | rsimpkins | Wowwy I'm sleepy. Me hand r nut with the br41n |
| 19:11.00 | sjansen | I suspect the crime statistics are low mostly because theirs no such thing as a bad neighborhood in Utah. |
| 19:11.01 | rsimpkins | So you think that the high crime rate is a fad? |
| 19:11.34 | sjansen | There might be some "less nice" neighborhoods, but there's nowhere in the entire state that I'd fear to go. |
| 19:11.35 | JoshH | sjansen, you are kidding right? |
| 19:11.49 | sjansen | JoshH: You have seen a bad neighborhood, right? |
| 19:12.01 | rsimpkins | sjansen: There is a survey on that website that goes in to that actually. It is interesting. |
| 19:12.52 | rsimpkins | sjansen: http://www.justice.utah.gov/Research/Crime/ShedLight05.pdf |
| 19:13.55 | TehLaser | Hey, kentucky already has an exclave, so we're good! |
| 19:13.55 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure where the 2007 one is. |
| 19:13.55 | unum | I'm scared when ever I go to west valley or glendale |
| 19:13.55 | JoshH | yes |
| 19:13.55 | JoshH | west valley, kearns, rose park, poplar grove, glendale... |
| 19:13.55 | JoshH | i go to none of those |
| 19:13.58 | ^Migs^ | yeah, Utah's "ghettos" are like "normal neighborhoods" in other parts of the U.S. |
| 19:14.03 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 19:14.11 | JoshH | that may have been the case in the past |
| 19:14.14 | JoshH | but definitely not now |
| 19:14.31 | JoshH | although for the most part, they aren't quite as bad as the worst ghettos in the country |
| 19:14.45 | ^Migs^ | I don't know about that. Most places you live in California, you can expect your home to be vandalized, or burglarized, or your car to be broken into at least once every other year. |
| 19:14.51 | TehLaser | Yeah, Wife has been talking of relocating, but she gets panicky in Rose Park. I'm afraid she doesn't realize that just about anywhere we would go, Rose Park would be a *good* neighborhood. |
| 19:14.53 | ^Migs^ | You can live your whole life in a Utah ghetto and not have any of that stuff happen |
| 19:15.22 | JoshH | most of the gang shootings, drive bys, random assaults, etc seem to be happening in glendale and rose park these days |
| 19:15.33 | JoshH | and migs, there ARE a lot of those crimes in those areas |
| 19:15.36 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Have you been to Cali? It's got some bad neighborhoods, but I'd hardly agree with your claim. |
| 19:15.36 | JoshH | it happens all the time |
| 19:15.51 | ^Migs^ | You should agree with my claim, because ^Migs^ is always right. |
| 19:15.54 | JoshH | my friend has had her acura broken into 3 times this year |
| 19:16.08 | JoshH | i had my car broken into overnight while hanging out with someone in taylorsville |
| 19:16.24 | ^Migs^ | It's not only bad neighborhoods that get hit by crime. If someone wants to break into a house, they can easily drive to a nice neighborhood. Better loot. |
| 19:16.31 | JoshH | the only difference is, we don't really have "projects", or anything comparable to say, watts |
| 19:16.43 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I used to live at some apartments in Ogden. Broken into 3 times in under 2 years. |
| 19:16.46 | ^Migs^ | my car, that is |
| 19:17.05 | sjansen | ^Migs^: True, but bad neighborhoods are indicative of the social conditions that generate crime. |
| 19:17.10 | ^Migs^ | the apartments were in a nice area, but the problem was that the car ports were located UNDER the apartments, with no visibility. Kids just walked by and busted into cars. No security or anything, either. |
| 19:17.19 | rsimpkins | A high crime area in the US is a place where you fall asleep listening to gun shots. I have not seen such a place in Utah. |
| 19:17.25 | rsimpkins | Higher crime, yes, but not that high. |
| 19:17.35 | ^Migs^ | and they were far away from any other homes, so these kids HAD to have come from the bad neighborhoods to break in |
| 19:17.48 | ^Migs^ | ugh |
| 19:17.50 | ^Migs^ | that would suck |
| 19:18.44 | JoshH | the downtown parking garage i use has a lot of break-ins at night on the lower levels |
| 19:18.48 | JoshH | they even pop trunks open |
| 19:19.05 | ^Migs^ | I've had my front door pried off with a crowbar |
| 19:19.11 | unum | I frequently park my car on the street over night and it has not been broken into once |
| 19:19.13 | ^Migs^ | I hated living there after the first break-in |
| 19:19.19 | unum | and I'm even west of the freeway |
| 19:19.22 | ^Migs^ | man, we had a NICE sound system in our car, too, with about 100 CDs |
| 19:19.27 | JoshH | unum: do you leave things inside it visible? |
| 19:19.45 | JoshH | i'm always careful/paranoid though, no matter what neighborhood i'm in |
| 19:19.49 | ^Migs^ | my cul-de-sac never has problems, though I've seen suspicious characters |
| 19:19.52 | JoshH | i never leave thigns in plain sight in the car, always lock it, etc |
| 19:20.01 | ^Migs^ | like one time some girl was driving around at about 3 or 4 in the morning, checking for open garages |
| 19:20.11 | unum | JoshH: I always make sure onthing can be seen in my car |
| 19:20.15 | ^Migs^ | and the owners of my home before me said they had their boat broken into once |
| 19:20.24 | JoshH | i wish it was legal to shoot burglars/vandals even if they aren't inside your home |
| 19:20.27 | ^Migs^ | I just leave my car unlocked all night |
| 19:20.30 | unum | s/onthing/nothing |
| 19:20.39 | sjansen | I don't consider break ins to be a defining characteristic of a bad neighborhood. I consider gun shots a defining characteristic. |
| 19:20.39 | ^Migs^ | well, at least I used to. It didn't dawn on me that my garage opener is in the car. |
| 19:20.46 | ^Migs^ | I've since started locking it up at night |
| 19:21.06 | unum | JoshH: you really think you should be able to shoot people over "stuff" |
| 19:21.09 | ^Migs^ | though the most expensive thing they could take from the garage is a lawnmower. And I need a new one anyway :) |
| 19:21.17 | JoshH | yes |
| 19:21.40 | JoshH | if i hear a noise outside at night, open the door and see some criminal prying my car door open, i should be able to blast him |
| 19:21.51 | ^Migs^ | I agree with JoshH |
| 19:21.55 | ^Migs^ | I'd just shoot him in the leg, to be honest |
| 19:21.56 | unum | that hardly seem equivelent to me |
| 19:22.00 | JoshH | those people are dangerous and we are better off without them |
| 19:22.08 | ^Migs^ | incapicitate him. Not because I'm merciful...i just want to see him suffer |
| 19:22.10 | JoshH | not only are they dangerous, they are just scum |
| 19:22.18 | rsimpkins | JoshH: So, someone breaks in to your car and you think that gives you the right to kill them? |
| 19:22.25 | unum | someone breaking into my car is not a threat to me. |
| 19:22.25 | JoshH | i think it should, sure |
| 19:22.26 | ^Migs^ | then I'd kick him when he's writhing on the ground, laughing diabolically |
| 19:22.42 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Seriously? |
| 19:22.45 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Because you spend so much time at the range that your certain you can hit his leg instead of the neighbor kid's bedroom? |
| 19:22.45 | JoshH | maybe not an immediate threat, depending on teh situation |
| 19:22.55 | unum | see this is why I'm such a bad libertarian I just don't things enough |
| 19:23.03 | unum | s/things/love things |
| 19:23.04 | ^Migs^ | who says I don't, sjansen? |
| 19:23.15 | sjansen | Experienced gun owners know that shooting for limbs is dumb. If the situation actually merits pulling the trigger, aim for the chest. |
| 19:23.22 | ^Migs^ | I'm actually not even a gunowner, though I easily could be. I love guns. |
| 19:23.22 | unum | JoshH: I don't see how you can even imply they are a long term threat |
| 19:23.27 | ^Migs^ | just don't want to waste money on them |
| 19:23.38 | unum | breaking into a car is not anywhere near the level of killing someone |
| 19:23.41 | JoshH | i would only shoo someone in the leg if i had them cornered, just to make sure they wouldn't run when i tried to call the cops |
| 19:23.44 | ^Migs^ | especially when my kung fu works just as well |
| 19:23.48 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Thinking guns are sexy and actually learning to use one proficiently are too entirely different things. |
| 19:24.08 | JoshH | unum: someone who would go to your house and rummage in your property is unpredictable and dangerous, you never know what htey might do next, maybe come in through your door, who knows |
| 19:24.14 | rsimpkins | Wow. |
| 19:24.17 | JoshH | i think it's ok to just assume the worst and take them out |
| 19:24.28 | JoshH | you guys are welcome to your opinions, of course |
| 19:24.29 | rsimpkins | I know some people in Northern Idaho that'd be interested in talking with you JoshH. |
| 19:24.38 | unum | JoshH: someone who drives past your house may come back and shoot you |
| 19:25.03 | JoshH | i've always just believed in a "take no chances" policy when it comes to brazen criminals |
| 19:25.16 | unum | breaking into a car at night is not brazen |
| 19:25.22 | sjansen | JoshH: So how much time have _you_ spent at the range? |
| 19:25.24 | ^Migs^ | Here's what would really go down. I'd catch the car burglar in the act, and point my shotgun and him and yell at him to get down on the ground. If he tries to run away, I'd fire off a couple warning shot, just to scare the hell out of him, and let him go. If it looked ANYTHING like he was going to draw a gun himself, I'd blast him. |
| 19:25.24 | JoshH | in my opinion it is |
| 19:25.40 | JoshH | sjansen: a fair amount, but i'm not a gun nut at all |
| 19:25.41 | sjansen | Life isn't like the movies. Hitting someone in a limb is not trivial. |
| 19:25.49 | unum | ^Migs^: I'm pretty sure the warning shots would be illegal |
| 19:26.07 | ^Migs^ | why? |
| 19:26.08 | unum | though if he advances towards you or looks like he's going to pull a gun, you would probably be ok |
| 19:26.09 | rsimpkins | Remember in the old west when someone stole your horse, you'd get a possey put together and go hang them. Yeah, there is a reason we don't do that any more. |
| 19:26.12 | sjansen | In the heat of the moment, it's hard to hit someone in the chest, let alone a spindly little leg. |
| 19:26.24 | JoshH | i simply believe that the castle doctrine needs to include the property outside your actual home, as well as inside |
| 19:26.37 | ^Migs^ | frankly, I don't see what's wrong with that, rsimpkins |
| 19:26.41 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Have you ever shot someone? |
| 19:26.41 | Jayce^ | JoshH: I agree, it should be all property |
| 19:26.43 | ^Migs^ | you shouldn't go around stealing horses |
| 19:26.46 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: Have you? |
| 19:26.50 | JoshH | rsimpkins: nope |
| 19:26.58 | unum | ^Migs^: because shooting a gun is illegal in most cities, unless someone is in your house |
| 19:27.01 | Jayce^ | and ^Migs^, warning shots would be a lawyers paradise :) |
| 19:27.04 | JoshH | but when my car was broken into, i wished i could ahve shot the person who did it |
| 19:27.07 | ^Migs^ | that's the problem, criminals think they're entitled to not get the crap beat out of them when they're stealing other peoples stuff |
| 19:27.08 | rsimpkins | Well, guys, I can tell you that you have no clue what you're talking about. |
| 19:27.17 | ^Migs^ | k, no warning shots then |
| 19:27.24 | unum | ^Migs^: they are entitled to it |
| 19:27.28 | unum | it's in the constitution |
| 19:27.37 | ^Migs^ | yeah, that sucks |
| 19:27.51 | ^Migs^ | we're Americans, we don't need to have a clue |
| 19:28.05 | JoshH | unum: this is why i make a bad liberal, because of how i feel about criminals :) |
| 19:28.27 | unum | JoshH: you love things too much to be a liberal |
| 19:28.34 | unum | you make a much better libetarian |
| 19:28.39 | ^Migs^ | Like those sex offenders in Miami who complain that they have to live under a bridge because they're not legally allowed near anyone else. That just makes me laugh. |
| 19:28.41 | JoshH | the way i see it, anyone who would go to someones driveway and break into their car is such a worthless human being that they don't deserve to live on this earth with the rest of us |
| 19:28.55 | unum | JoshH: it's just a car |
| 19:28.56 | TehLaser | Heh. I had a policewoman pay me a visit as a suspicious-guy-in-cul-de-sac before. |
| 19:28.56 | ^Migs^ | If you don't want to be homeless, living under a bridge in a tent, stop raping people |
| 19:29.03 | ^Migs^ | I say it's justice. |
| 19:29.04 | unum | that's it. it can be replaced |
| 19:29.08 | rsimpkins | I am taking it you guys aren't religious in any way? |
| 19:29.10 | JoshH | but i love publicly funded things too much to be a libertarian |
| 19:29.13 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Yeah, until you find out what some of those sex offenders did to become pariahs. |
| 19:29.16 | JoshH | maybe the pragmatic kind, i guess |
| 19:29.18 | TehLaser | I was early for work, so I pulled into a cul-de-sac, parked on the curb and read my book for 15 minutes. |
| 19:29.29 | TehLaser | Apparantly I freaked the neighborhood out pretty bad. |
| 19:29.29 | JoshH | rsimpkins: i'm not |
| 19:29.32 | ^Migs^ | well, they can always move somewhere else if they don't like it |
| 19:29.34 | unum | TehLaser: you should have been shot ;) |
| 19:29.58 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Have you served in the military? |
| 19:30.15 | JoshH | no |
| 19:30.27 | sjansen | I for one think it is totally appropriate to brand someone a sex offender for sending naked pictures of yourself to your girlfriend at 17 years old. Anyone sick enough to do that should never be allowed near children for the rest of their life. |
| 19:30.30 | JoshH | i did want to join at one point, but i'm medically disqualified |
| 19:30.35 | ^Migs^ | Are you a scary looking fellow, TehLaser? |
| 19:30.42 | TehLaser | isn't quite sure if it's strictly legal to, say, park your car on the street in front of someone else's house and stay in the car. |
| 19:30.49 | ^Migs^ | I agree, sjansen |
| 19:30.49 | unum | sjansen: especially if you are 19 |
| 19:30.55 | unum | pervert |
| 19:31.01 | ^Migs^ | if that's the only way the kids are going to learn, then so be it |
| 19:31.02 | TehLaser | ^Migs^: only in that I'm 6'7" tall. But that hardly matters when I'm sitting in a car. |
| 19:31.05 | unum | TehLaser: yes it is legal |
| 19:31.22 | JoshH | i think the teenagers who "sext" need no legal punishment at all, just some good parental discipline and cell phone privs removed |
| 19:31.23 | unum | I take that back |
| 19:31.27 | unum | it could be loitering |
| 19:31.40 | TehLaser | unum: cop told me to go away, and I did. |
| 19:31.46 | ^Migs^ | well, the parents are often the ones who start filing criminal charges |
| 19:31.50 | sjansen | TehLaser: It is not strictly illegal. Therefore... |
| 19:32.10 | ^Migs^ | rather than do proper parenting |
| 19:32.19 | TehLaser | Then again, cops ask people to do things they're not legally required to do all the time. :) |
| 19:32.24 | unum | true |
| 19:32.31 | rsimpkins | I learned a long time ago to be careful about blanket judgments over large groups of people. |
| 19:32.43 | TehLaser | JoshH: what if the parents don't think it's a bad thing? |
| 19:32.53 | JoshH | depends |
| 19:32.57 | sjansen | JoshH: I disagree. They should be forced to live under bridges and only allowed to work in the sewer repair industry. Society can't afford to forgive such deviant behavior. |
| 19:33.14 | JoshH | with someone who is 17, i don't see how doing that is any "worse" than them actually having sex, and you can't really stop that |
| 19:33.17 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Have you ever been arrested? |
| 19:33.17 | unum | sjansen: because forgiveness is evil |
| 19:33.22 | sjansen | In fact, just to be safe, I think we should shoot teenagers for sexting. |
| 19:33.30 | ^Migs^ | there's a sex offender who lives one block away from me. I often see him working in his garden with his wife, and I make a point to glare at him whenever I pass by. |
| 19:33.31 | JoshH | rsimpkins: no |
| 19:33.42 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Have you ever recieved a ticket? |
| 19:33.44 | JoshH | yes |
| 19:33.46 | sjansen | ^Migs^: How very Christian of you. |
| 19:33.49 | ^Migs^ | sometimes I even shake my fist |
| 19:34.03 | ^Migs^ | who says I'm a Christian? |
| 19:34.12 | rsimpkins | I think we should shoot all traffic violators. People who speed are a threat to my life, and I should have the right to lob bullets in to their chest. |
| 19:34.13 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Have you considered burning a cross on his lawn? Serves him right. |
| 19:34.14 | ^Migs^ | I'm a Mormon, and apparently we're not Christians |
| 19:34.34 | ^Migs^ | are you allowed to shoot someone if they're burning a cross on your lawn? |
| 19:34.38 | JoshH | i'm actually pretty anti-police in a lot of ways, at least by utah standards. i simply feel that the castle doctrine/self defense/etc laws should be expanded |
| 19:34.53 | unum | JoshH: a lot of people in utah feel that way |
| 19:34.54 | JoshH | not anti-police, but basically an ACLU type |
| 19:35.09 | unum | I don't think the ACLU supports shooting people on your lawn |
| 19:35.13 | TehLaser | Isn't Utah's self-defense laws relatively wide already? |
| 19:35.15 | JoshH | i think taser use needs to be reigned in and better controlled, for example |
| 19:35.19 | TehLaser | er, Aren't? |
| 19:35.42 | Jayce^ | TehLaser: nope, only in relation some certain other states.. |
| 19:35.44 | ^Migs^ | what if I just used paintball guns? |
| 19:35.50 | ^Migs^ | blast the crap out of people with paintballs? It still hurts, at least. |
| 19:36.02 | Jayce^ | we do have castle laws, but it does start only at your home threshhold |
| 19:36.03 | rsimpkins | so tazering is bad, shooting someone breaking in to your car, good. Got it. |
| 19:36.25 | JoshH | police tasering someone when it wasn't necessary is bad |
| 19:36.26 | sjansen | I think I should be allowed to add flamethrowers to my cars to punish people for cutting me off or passing on the right. |
| 19:36.31 | TehLaser | I thought Utah was a stand-your-ground state, and that that was rare. |
| 19:36.40 | JoshH | shooting someone in your garage who is prying open your door is godo |
| 19:36.44 | ^Migs^ | I'd add dual rocket launchers to the side of my cars, too, to get rid of traffic jams |
| 19:37.08 | Jayce^ | TehLaser: not entirely, so many loopholes, that even if you're in the right, if you say *anything* the lawyers can get around it |
| 19:37.24 | Jayce^ | that's going for castle laws too |
| 19:37.29 | ^Migs^ | If someone had a getaway car while they were breaking into my car, I'd shoot out their tires while they were trying to escape. Then I'd open their front door and turn the hose on them. |
| 19:37.34 | JoshH | rsimpkins: i have had my condo broken into before, when i wasn't home, and it was a pretty bad experience. i have a very intense hatred for burglars. |
| 19:37.48 | ^Migs^ | that might be a better, and more entertaining, way to do it. Just employ tons of nonlethal measures. |
| 19:37.53 | ^Migs^ | Maybe throw a ton of mousetraps in their car. |
| 19:37.58 | rsimpkins | sjansen: I want to drive an abrahms to work, so I can plow over slow drivers. |
| 19:38.01 | TehLaser | Jayce^: isn't that why "right ot remain silent" is usually a good idea? |
| 19:38.04 | sjansen | Shooting the electric companies meter reader, also good. Shooting the drunk neighbor who pulled into the wrong driveway, also good. Shooting the paperboy for breaking a window, also good. |
| 19:38.19 | goozbach | anyone used imapsync? |
| 19:38.22 | ^Migs^ | have you seen that story of the guy who had his home broken into while he was there, so he snuck around and stole the guys' getaway car? |
| 19:38.31 | Jayce^ | absolutely is, but police are currently trained to get *anything* they can out of you, and remaining silent will get you locked up... |
| 19:38.31 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Did you find out who burglarized you? |
| 19:38.38 | JoshH | sjansen: obviously i think all castle doctrine cased need to be investigated to determine whether force was justified or not |
| 19:38.41 | TehLaser | Or have I misunderstood what you're trying to say? |
| 19:38.41 | Jayce^ | once locked up, you get played in the media |
| 19:38.56 | JoshH | rsimpkins: nope, cops never even called me back after taking a look |
| 19:39.05 | sjansen | ^Migs^: If you plan on doing so much trick shooting, you're going to need to spend _a lot_ of time at the range. |
| 19:39.15 | TehLaser | I'd rather be played in the media than in the legal system. |
| 19:39.31 | ^Migs^ | you really seem to underestimate my accuracy |
| 19:40.44 | JoshH | rsimpkins: imagine you're in a motorhome in a campground somewhere, with your boat trailer next to it, and you find soemone is breaking into the boat late at night, and you can tell they have say, a knife |
| 19:40.50 | JoshH | what would you feel is a justified reaction? |
| 19:41.03 | ^Migs^ | if I could subdue, I'd tie him to his car seat, hook his car up to my SUV, and drag him around the neighborhood, yelling at everyone to come out and laugh at him |
| 19:41.07 | ^Migs^ | s/subdue/subdue him/ |
| 19:41.09 | JoshH | obviously you can't just call 911 from there |
| 19:41.21 | unum | JoshH: if no one is in the motorhome, leaving and calling the cops |
| 19:41.33 | JoshH | i think that's a better example than a paperboy coming to your hard |
| 19:41.39 | ^Migs^ | maybe spraypaint his car, too: "CAR THIEF" |
| 19:41.43 | ^Migs^ | the irony would be delicious |
| 19:41.44 | unum | but the paperboy comes around more often |
| 19:41.46 | rsimpkins | JoshH: To try to get the best description I could while running away to call the cops. The contents of my boat are not worth a human life. |
| 19:41.54 | JoshH | i guess if it was simple to just drie away in the motorhome, you could do that |
| 19:42.00 | unum | in fact the paperboy comes up to my front door everyday |
| 19:42.15 | rsimpkins | If I was able to drive away, sure. |
| 19:42.33 | rsimpkins | You don't know the value of a human life until you've lost it. ;-) |
| 19:42.42 | JoshH | i understand your opinions, i really do |
| 19:42.46 | sjansen | Is a boat really worth a human life? A can of gas? I fistful of jewelery? |
| 19:42.48 | unum | I'd walk away if I wasn't in a car |
| 19:42.51 | Jayce^ | legally, you can't do anything if they are stealing from your car, but you can if they are stealing the car while you are/were in it (carjacking) |
| 19:43.08 | ^Migs^ | that's so stupid |
| 19:43.13 | JoshH | my justification isn't about just defending the property |
| 19:43.20 | JoshH | but i do feel that's a good reason for force, personally |
| 19:43.26 | Jayce^ | if you touch the person just stealing from your car, they can sue and win |
| 19:43.31 | JoshH | ok, say the motorhome had a flat tire and you couldn't just drive off |
| 19:43.33 | ^Migs^ | that's freakin stupid |
| 19:43.35 | Jayce^ | would take that chance |
| 19:43.38 | JoshH | you know the guy has a weapon |
| 19:43.45 | JoshH | for all you know, he could come in and attack you when he's done with your boat |
| 19:43.52 | unum | JoshH: I misunderstood you before. |
| 19:43.54 | ^Migs^ | so if I was a burglar, I could just boldly walk up to someone's car while they're standing right there, and start rummaging around? |
| 19:43.55 | JoshH | i think shooting him is the correct thing to do |
| 19:43.59 | JoshH | remove a scumbag like that from society |
| 19:44.06 | TehLaser | Take cover, wait, and shoot him *if* he attacks you? |
| 19:44.11 | ^Migs^ | hold out for a lawsuit? |
| 19:44.11 | unum | JoshH: he's just rummaging around in your boat |
| 19:44.18 | sjansen | JoshH: So use the time to call the cops and prepare to defend yourself. Life isn't like the movies. |
| 19:44.21 | Jayce^ | JoshH: the biggest thing is, you gotta have those decisions made ahead of time.. People who have trained learn that, and can make the decision, others usually can't, and it's better they dont' do anything.. |
| 19:44.37 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins is probably making the best choice for himself, given his situation |
| 19:44.45 | Jayce^ | but the ability to choose that path is important |
| 19:44.48 | ^Migs^ | if I was a homeless guy, that would be ideal. Either I go to jail and have a nice cushy bed, cable TV, free food, or I get some free stuff from a dude's car. |
| 19:44.50 | JoshH | i know. honestly, if i were in that situation, i probably wouldn't take any action |
| 19:44.52 | rsimpkins | JoshH: the problem with your thinking is there is no clear place to draw the line. What if it was some guy who had a motorhome and boat identical to yours, or he was confused, and was looking for his wallet he left in his boat? |
| 19:45.16 | Jayce^ | me, I'd probably pull and get the person to stop, or let them run, I'd only shoot if they went after me/family |
| 19:45.25 | JoshH | but my personal philosophy, in theory, is that you should be able to defend yourself even in the more ambigous cases |
| 19:45.34 | Jayce^ | "I was afraid for my security and or the safety of my family" |
| 19:45.59 | rsimpkins | JoshH: I agree with defending yourself. But your boat is not you. Your stuff is not you. |
| 19:46.23 | unum | JoshH: someone breaking into your car out side your house is not threatening your safety |
| 19:46.30 | JoshH | if my boat was at a marina and i was just driving by and noticed some dude was in it, that's one thing |
| 19:46.42 | JoshH | but if it's next to where my family is sleeping, i think force is appropriate |
| 19:47.01 | JoshH | i don't expect you guys to agree or anything, that's just how i feel |
| 19:47.08 | TehLaser | JoshH: force, yes.... lethal force, no. |
| 19:47.09 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins: depends on what judge/lawyer you get... according to our founders it was, now it's a lawyers game |
| 19:47.09 | sjansen | If you're really determined to shoot at people, there are facilities that will walking you through your probability of success, the legal repercussions, and simulated scenarios. Not cheap, but if you're bound and determined, I'd recommend ponying up the time and cash so you don't just sound like another Internet crank. |
| 19:47.27 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: That's true. Modern society. |
| 19:47.29 | Jayce^ | sjansen: yup |
| 19:47.38 | JoshH | i actually read this thing yesterday about russian companies taking rich people out on pirate hunting cruises |
| 19:47.41 | Jayce^ | sjansen: that's part of what I was talking about just before |
| 19:47.42 | JoshH | now that's messed up |
| 19:47.52 | Jayce^ | JoshH: only times I've read that was jokes |
| 19:48.10 | JoshH | i'm trying to find it |
| 19:48.23 | JoshH | http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3374702.html |
| 19:48.25 | brac | [Ananova - Luxury yachts offer pirate hunting cruises] |
| 19:48.29 | JoshH | not sure how real it is |
| 19:48.36 | JoshH | but messed up, if it is |
| 19:48.45 | JoshH | of course, i do feel that militaries should be more proactive about pirates |
| 19:52.21 | sjansen | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/funny-pictures-cat-tries-to-poop.jpg |
| 19:52.22 | eightyeight | http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/popculture/a359/zoom/ |
| 19:52.23 | rsimpkins | Creating situations where people suffer, then killing them when they act out of desperation, is a very Israeli thing to do. *ka-ching* I'm here all night folks. |
| 19:52.24 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: God Kills a LOLcat :: Zoom!] |
| 19:53.21 | JoshH | we should definitely be able to shoot whoever started the lolcats thing |
| 19:53.26 | rsimpkins | That pirate they caught and brought to the US had the biggest smile on his face. We SAVED him. He looked thrilled. |
| 19:53.43 | JoshH | well, he was trying to negotiate a surrender |
| 19:53.47 | JoshH | but iirc, it was because he was injured |
| 19:53.50 | rsimpkins | He could care less he is in prison. that's a heap better than where he was. |
| 19:55.41 | Sargun | rsimpkins, you see what the media wants you to see... |
| 19:56.48 | rsimpkins | Sargun: Fortunatly we have this thing called the Internet that lets us connect with people actually experiencing the events, a lot of the time. |
| 19:57.10 | rsimpkins | Often they don't understand what is happening any better than the "media" does. |
| 19:58.24 | rsimpkins | CNN would have a hard time getting viewers if all they said was "Well, we don't have a clue what happened. But here is a picture. We don't know if it is real either." over and over. |
| 19:59.09 | tensai | goozbach: yes, I've used imapsync |
| 19:59.17 | tensai | goozbach: and would recommend it to my friends |
| 19:59.42 | JoshH | i used imapsync once, and it worked |
| 19:59.48 | goozbach | tensai: good to know |
| 20:00.05 | Sargun | I used imapsync...it worked |
| 20:01.01 | tensai | goozbach: I used it to copy half a terabyte of data between servers |
| 20:01.48 | sjansen | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/funny-pictures-wet-kitty-is-no-longer-nice1.jpg |
| 20:01.49 | eightyeight | http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/popculture/a359/zoom/ |
| 20:01.50 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: God Kills a LOLcat :: Zoom!] |
| 20:02.04 | tensai | somewhere around here I've got a script to automate it but darned if I can't find it |
| 20:02.59 | goozbach | tensai: it's only one account |
| 20:03.15 | goozbach | so automating it isn't a great need |
| 20:03.52 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1024 (n=blendmas@71-213-71-78.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:05.41 | tensai | I had one issue where one server supported some non-standard headers that I had to strip out otherwise the destination server would cry |
| 20:06.25 | tensai | --syncinternaldates used to not be on by default and that was a Bad Thing(tm) |
| 20:06.28 | goozbach | well they're both cyrus |
| 20:06.39 | tensai | same servers definitely makes it easier |
| 20:07.01 | goozbach | thought so |
| 20:14.24 | goozbach | holy crap! I have 4G of mail... |
| 20:14.44 | goozbach | maybe need to set this on slow trickle for a month |
| 20:14.54 | goozbach | or months |
| 20:15.45 | goozbach | 14 months to be exact, to not go over my bandwidth level |
| 20:16.51 | goozbach | wait, I'm and idiot |
| 20:17.02 | goozbach | 4 !> 300 |
| 20:17.08 | goozbach | me stupid |
| 20:17.42 | Jayce^ | and there's your last quote for the business cards |
| 20:17.47 | blendmaster1024 | 4>5 |
| 20:17.51 | blendmaster1024 | ! |
| 20:18.10 | blendmaster1024 | ...if the 4 is linux and the 5 is microsoft |
| 20:19.09 | goozbach | Jayce^: last quote for business cards? |
| 20:19.23 | goozbach | ohh yea "quote" as in saying |
| 20:19.28 | Jayce^ | you were looking for short statements... :) |
| 20:19.35 | Jayce^ | "me stupid" seems to be one :) |
| 20:19.38 | goozbach | not "quote" as in purchace amount |
| 20:19.44 | goozbach | me stupid would fit well |
| 20:19.49 | goozbach | I'll print a couple of those up |
| 20:20.06 | goozbach | me stupid 4 !> 5 |
| 20:20.31 | goozbach | "I'm and idiot"? |
| 20:20.37 | goozbach | did I really type that |
| 20:20.42 | goozbach | that wasn't intentional |
| 20:20.51 | sjansen | But _so_ perfect. |
| 20:21.06 | Jayce^ | dare I say, poetic... |
| 20:21.19 | goozbach | ~goozbach |
| 20:21.19 | ibot | it has been said that goozbach is a future que-ball. easier to catch than a retarted sasquatch |
| 20:21.36 | goozbach | ~goozbach is also and idiot |
| 20:21.36 | ibot | goozbach: cannot alter locked factoids |
| 20:22.33 | goozbach | can't modify goobach |
| 20:22.35 | goozbach | hmm |
| 20:22.45 | goozbach | ibot: factinfo goozbach |
| 20:22.45 | ibot | goozbach -- last modified at Mon May 9 22:30:39 2005 by goozbach!~goozbach@207.108.175.219; it has been requested 5 times, last by goozbach, 1m 26s ago; it has been locked by goozbach. |
| 20:23.06 | goozbach | ibot: unlock goozbach |
| 20:23.41 | goozbach | stupid bot |
| 20:24.19 | goozbach | I must say, setting up dspam has gotten a LOT easier in recent years |
| 20:26.55 | tensai | that's good to hear since it used to be murderously difficult |
| 20:27.05 | goozbach | yes |
| 20:27.14 | goozbach | my last attempt was 4 or so years ago |
| 20:27.22 | goozbach | finally succeded last night |
| 20:27.28 | goozbach | only one small snafu |
| 20:27.31 | tensai | same here, 3-4 years ago |
| 20:27.37 | goozbach | and that was fetchmail related |
| 20:31.29 | sjansen | How does dspam compare to spam assassin these days? |
| 20:32.30 | goozbach | sjansen: I've had problems with spam assassin not registering any new spams, so I've switched |
| 20:32.42 | goozbach | I'll let you know in a couple of months when the training is finished |
| 20:34.17 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 20:35.54 | goozbach | does imapsync only go from IMAP -> IMAP? |
| 20:36.06 | goozbach | or can I do IMAP->SMTP to re-train on all my messages? |
| 20:36.17 | goozbach | ohh i'd lose folder info then wouldn't I? |
| 20:39.30 | goozbach | might be worth it for dspam training purposes... |
| 20:44.13 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp13.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:44.13 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 21:00.22 | rsimpkins | I am not happy with dspam. I'm going to go with this instead: http://mimo.gn.apc.org/gps/ |
| 21:00.24 | brac | [gps - greylist policy service for postfix] |
| 21:06.20 | tensai | goozbach: it's imap to imap. if you want imap to smtp then fetchmail is your tool. |
| 21:06.52 | tensai | you could do it one folder at a time and set up a procmail rule to file it |
| 21:07.05 | goozbach | good point |
| 21:07.33 | goozbach | if I use imapsync to sync folders only, then setup sieve rules to handle all incoming email I could then use fetchmail |
| 21:07.34 | tensai | you'd lose message metadata such as read and replied status |
| 21:07.48 | goozbach | meh, that's messed up in my current server anyway |
| 21:08.11 | goozbach | msg ids would change? |
| 21:08.33 | goozbach | maybe after I've copied the email over I run imapsync one last time to sync metadata? |
| 21:08.42 | goozbach | wonder if that would work... |
| 21:08.50 | tensai | that might work |
| 21:08.55 | tensai | I would test it first |
| 21:09.05 | goozbach | yeah |
| 21:09.11 | goozbach | not gonna happen tonight |
| 21:09.22 | goozbach | I've got to prep for my ATL.PM meeting |
| 21:09.25 | tensai | I can't recall exactly how it knows that two messages are the same |
| 21:09.30 | goozbach | I'm presenting! |
| 21:10.29 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@70.56.105.108) |
| 21:12.17 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Why are you not happy with dspam? |
| 21:12.44 | jalbretsen | I have a networking mystery |
| 21:13.12 | jalbretsen | this server has 3 NICs each assigned to a static IP in different class C's |
| 21:13.25 | jalbretsen | right now the default GW is set to the GW on eth0 |
| 21:13.44 | jalbretsen | I can't ssh into eth0 or eth1, but I can ssh into eth2 |
| 21:14.14 | jalbretsen | CentOS 5.3 BTW |
| 21:14.30 | sjansen | firewall? |
| 21:14.54 | sjansen | Can you at least telnet to port 22 on each of the IPs? |
| 21:15.05 | jalbretsen | filewall is off |
| 21:15.11 | jalbretsen | I can't even ping the IPs |
| 21:15.58 | jalbretsen | from the outside |
| 21:18.25 | jalbretsen | and while on the server, if I want to ping a server on the internets, I have to bind to eth2 |
| 21:18.25 | sjansen | Sounds like you're going to get to trace packets. |
| 21:18.25 | jalbretsen | eventhough the default GW is on eth0 |
| 21:25.18 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@host-74-211-27-142.beyondbb.com) |
| 21:26.03 | TehLaser | no reason a ping can't come in on eth2 and go out on eth0. |
| 21:26.18 | sjansen | jalbretsen: You have to answer two questions. (1) Are my packets getting to the server? (2) Are the server's packets making it back to me? |
| 21:26.55 | sjansen | The server's default GW is important for answering (2), but doesn't matter a lick for (1). |
| 21:27.19 | jalbretsen | (1) They make it to the server using the IP on eth2, but not for eth1 or eth0 |
| 21:27.43 | sjansen | So the server's default GW has nothing to do with your problem. |
| 21:28.17 | jalbretsen | (2) If I bind to the IP address on eth2, I can get packets out |
| 21:28.29 | jalbretsen | well, here's the thing |
| 21:28.37 | sjansen | Pretend you're the packet as it leaves your laptop. Think about all the nodes it has to cross. Is one of those nodes swallowing the packet? |
| 21:29.00 | sjansen | traceroute & tracepath are very handy for following disappearing packets. |
| 21:29.11 | *** join/#utah sinuhe` (n=user@host-74-211-27-142.beyondbb.com) |
| 21:29.18 | jalbretsen | if I switched the default gw to the gw on the block eth2 is on, then I can get in via eth0 |
| 21:29.31 | jalbretsen | ya, using mtr |
| 21:29.47 | jalbretsen | the packets get right up the the IP before the server itself |
| 21:30.04 | JoshH | check the routing? |
| 21:30.12 | rsimpkins | sjansen: dspam will do these occasional freak outs where 'everything' is spam unless it happened to have been whitelisted previously. Fixing it causes the reverse action where 'nothing' is spam. It takes several days to knock it back in shape. |
| 21:30.15 | sjansen | Are they leaving that node? It's either got a firewall or messed up routing. |
| 21:30.54 | rsimpkins | sjansen: The greylist policy service seems a more heavy fisted approach, which I'm willing to try at this point. |
| 21:31.16 | sjansen | It doesn't matter what IP you give the server if the network equipment it's attached to doesn't know how to reach it using that IP. |
| 21:32.27 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Heavy fisted? I've always thought of it as a more light handed approach. All you have to do to e-mail me is resend, not avoid some magic strings. In fact, all I do is greylist right now. Works very well. |
| 21:33.13 | rsimpkins | sjansen: My understanding is that there are a few situations where greylisting will cause issues. although, I am no expert. |
| 21:33.39 | unum | gmail... |
| 21:33.56 | unum | I had to whitelist the gmail server |
| 21:34.09 | unum | if your business depends on getting email immediatly it may be an issue |
| 21:36.25 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Broken ancient Netware servers that treated all SMTP errors as fatal. Annoying networks, like gmail, that resend from a different server each time. That sort of thing. |
| 21:37.21 | sjansen | Any greylisting software worth its salt will already have a list of the most important annoying networks to whitelist. |
| 21:38.26 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@208.110.152.42) |
| 21:38.54 | sjansen | As for the delay, I've lowered mine to 1 minute without a noticeable increase in spam. Most servers try back within 5 minutes, although once in rarely I do get delays of more than 15 minutes. |
| 21:39.18 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, if you need to get a message to someone immediately, that what cellphones are for. |
| 21:40.11 | Sargun | sjansen, or normal phones, you know? |
| 21:40.22 | rsimpkins | Yeah, in most cases if it takes 15 minutes to resend a message, then I see that as their problem any how. |
| 21:41.12 | rsimpkins | sjansen: which greylist software do you recommend? |
| 21:42.31 | sjansen | postgrey |
| 21:50.41 | Jayce^ | mrpull: and which bad news were you referencing? |
| 21:50.59 | elg | i like postgrey too |
| 21:51.02 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 21:51.03 | brac | stabs tensai |
| 21:51.32 | elg | i recently switched mail servers, and didn't get around to setting up greylisting for awhile |
| 21:51.44 | elg | marked increase in spam, and that's just what gets through the gmail filters |
| 21:52.21 | tensai | elg: like that's my fault |
| 21:52.30 | elg | it's not |
| 21:52.33 | elg | but i just like to lart you |
| 21:52.35 | elg | been awhile |
| 21:52.46 | tensai | ~lart elg for larting tensai |
| 21:52.46 | ibot | sends a legion of lawyers after elg's head for larting tensai |
| 21:52.48 | elg | -metar klru |
| 21:52.49 | brac | KLRU 252150Z AUTO 13006G14KT 10SM CLR 34/08 A3002 RMK AO2 |
| 21:52.58 | elg | would go home now but it's too bloody hot |
| 21:53.03 | tensai | elg: did you notice fbpurity broke? |
| 21:53.13 | elg | yes but i went to the website and he had an update |
| 21:53.15 | tensai | is it 10SM outside? yowza |
| 21:53.27 | elg | 10SM means 10 statute miles visibilty |
| 21:53.33 | elg | it's 34°C outside |
| 21:53.39 | tensai | ah. so A3002 must be the temperature |
| 21:53.50 | elg | altimiter 30.02 in hg |
| 21:54.00 | elg | 34/08 |
| 21:54.07 | elg | that's 34°C and 8°C dewpoint |
| 21:54.13 | mrpull | the michael jackson hospital trip |
| 21:54.21 | tensai | 34/08=4.25 |
| 21:54.22 | elg | if those numbers are close or the same, you have fog or a good chance of fog |
| 21:54.24 | Jayce^ | And little children everywhere will sleep better tonight :) |
| 21:54.35 | Jayce^ | mrpull: ahh, k, was making sure it wasn't something personal :) |
| 21:54.41 | tensai | -metar kida |
| 21:54.42 | brac | KIDA 252053Z 20012G18KT 10SM SCT095 29/09 A3003 RMK AO2 SLP126 T02890089 58003 |
| 21:56.27 | mrpull | mrpull: oh yeah.. nothing personal |
| 21:56.43 | elg | 25th at 20:53 UTC, wind 200° at 12 kts, gusting to 18 kts. 10 mile visibility, scattered clouds at 9500 feet, 29°, dewpoint 9°, altimiter 30.03 |
| 21:56.58 | elg | the remark stuff I don't have memorized, but it looks like you got some thunderstorms in the area or something |
| 21:57.23 | elg | AO2 is something about the kind of automatic observation station it is |
| 22:02.05 | Jayce^ | well, harleypig was talking about his teen dream dying today, looks like it came true twice! |
| 22:05.18 | stderr | damn Jayce^. Too soon, don't you think? |
| 22:06.47 | elg | reuters is reporting dead |
| 22:07.15 | tensai | wikipedia hasn't reported on it yet |
| 22:07.24 | elg | must not be true then |
| 22:07.33 | elg | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062503056.html?hpid=entnews |
| 22:07.35 | brac | [Pop star Michael Jackson dead: report - washingtonpost.com] |
| 22:09.30 | *** join/#utah eggyknap (n=jtolley@c-67-182-227-82.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:09.37 | tensai | tmz reports dead. if that isn't a bastion of quality reporting, well... |
| 22:09.57 | rsimpkins | elg: Omniture is seeing a very large influx of traffic due to the news. |
| 22:11.02 | tensai | but on the positive side, "Extra Michael Jackson O2 Arena tickets made available" today |
| 22:11.13 | elg | quick, everyone go watch this michael jackson video to show your support |
| 22:11.14 | elg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI |
| 22:11.31 | rsimpkins | It is a pretty big spike. |
| 22:11.36 | tensai | flashblock++ |
| 22:11.40 | rsimpkins | Takes a lot to spike traffic on our net. |
| 22:12.21 | *** join/#utah blendmaster1025 (n=blendmas@71-213-71-185.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:14.07 | elg | i love how these sites thrust this full-page ad that you have to wait for or click on "skip this welcome screen" |
| 22:14.13 | elg | who are they fooling? |
| 22:19.28 | ^Migs^ | man, Michael Jackson just died |
| 22:19.31 | ^Migs^ | http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/ |
| 22:19.32 | brac | [Michael Jackson Dies | TMZ.com] |
| 22:21.10 | tensai | ^Migs^: pffft. that's so 15 minutes ago |
| 22:22.47 | ^Migs^ | sorry |
| 22:23.15 | elg | actually it looks like all the reports of death stem from the TMZ report, and they don't cite a source |
| 22:23.35 | elg | so... if everyone watches billy jean on youtube... |
| 22:24.04 | goozbach | havne't seen the death verified on any *real* news site |
| 22:24.11 | goozbach | hasn't been verified anywhere |
| 22:24.45 | elg | well my link was the washington post, but they said "TMZ reports" |
| 22:25.03 | elg | poor news media. trying so hard to stay ahead of twitter |
| 22:27.13 | goozbach | cnn just reported |
| 22:27.35 | goozbach | cnn stating "washing post reports" |
| 22:27.41 | elg | heh |
| 22:27.57 | elg | well, nyt says la times reports citing "city and law enforcement sources" |
| 22:31.50 | *** join/#utah Jayce^_ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com) |
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| 22:39.17 | wps | anyone ever heard of unity script? |
| 22:39.29 | wps | google and wikipedia don't know anything about it |
| 22:40.05 | wps | ahâ¦Â apparently google normal does |
| 22:40.17 | wps | I was using their definition feature and it returned nothing |
| 22:40.23 | wps | ~unity |
| 22:40.23 | ibot | Unity through Diversity! |
| 22:40.34 | wps | ~unity script |
| 22:40.46 | goozbach | ~unityscript |
| 22:41.08 | goozbach | 3d scripting engine? |
| 22:41.24 | wps | ibot, unity is also a multiplatform game development tool, designed from the start to ease creation. A fully integrated professional application, Unity just happens to contain the most powerful engine this side of a million dollars. |
| 22:41.24 | ibot | wps: okay |
| 22:41.45 | wps | ibot, unityscript is a scripting language for the multiplatform game development tool Unity |
| 22:41.46 | ibot | okay, wps |
| 22:53.32 | unum | http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ieEH1jDwQRephKn_IqXwjkFFeNVgD991VL1O1 <- students can't be stipped searched for drugs |
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