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| 03:21.56 | imortallis_ | is this the PLUG IRC channel? |
| 03:26.34 | Sargun | sure |
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| 04:47.51 | bonez46 | I have two identical hdd's .. both 250 gb seagates.. one is the one I want to run and be primary, and the other has data I want to pull off it, .. but. apparently grub and the bootable point is on the other drive, so I have to have it plugged in to boot the primary drive.. how can I get grub on the primary.. so that it doesn't depend on the other drive to boot? |
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| 13:04.57 | exoeoeoeoe | http://3x3cut10n3r.mybrute.com/ <-- have fun & good luck |
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| 15:34.21 | unum | having been at goalball games all day friday I just read xkcd. the alt text made me lol |
| 15:34.39 | unum | repeatedly |
| 15:35.57 | Sargun_screen | I hate my self-confidence. |
| 15:36.09 | Sargun_screen | there is an incredibly gross person sitting across from me. |
| 15:36.27 | Sargun_screen | She keeps burping, hasn't put on make up, and has nasty breath. |
| 15:36.38 | Sargun_screen | And then is wearing sunglasses, and is staring at me. |
| 15:37.02 | Sargun_screen | from underneath, yet, it is incredibly obvious where she is looking. |
| 15:38.02 | Sargun_screen | oh, and she keeps singing along to her iPod Nano (I hink that's what it is) |
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| 15:40.09 | tristanbob_ | Sargun_screen, you want to to ask her out? |
| 15:40.28 | Sargun_screen | No. |
| 15:40.38 | Sargun_screen | I want her to go away. |
| 15:40.40 | Sargun_screen | or clean p. |
| 15:40.42 | Sargun_screen | up. |
| 15:41.43 | Sargun_screen | Though, one seat, well, like one set of seats over, there is a fairly attractive girl, she's basically the complete opposite. |
| 15:41.59 | *** join/#utah gshipley (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-af1a8a3d8d5e4756) |
| 15:41.59 | Sargun_screen | Though, being in a relationship, I have no interest in said girl. |
| 15:43.15 | Sargun_screen | Hm, if I twist my head about 60 degrees to either side and then swallow |
| 15:43.18 | Sargun_screen | It hurts. |
| 15:43.43 | goozbach | don't do that |
| 15:43.57 | Sargun_screen | Yes, I knw, that's the "rigt" and expected response. |
| 15:44.03 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:44.14 | Sargun_screen | Eh? |
| 15:44.19 | Sargun_screen | #swineflu? |
| 15:44.24 | Sargun_screen | is confused. |
| 15:44.50 | goozbach | it starts with a sore throat |
| 15:48.13 | Sargun_screen | ah... |
| 15:49.08 | Sargun_screen | hehe, California is awesome. nobody cares about the the guy laying in the middle of the train station smoking a blunt |
| 15:50.09 | Sargun_screen | I live in one of the few places that hot chicks, software developers, and drugs converge |
| 15:50.24 | tristanbob_ | goozbach, good call on #swineflu kick, we need to practice social distancing |
| 15:50.54 | tristanbob_ | Sargun_screen, don't forget the not-so-hot chicks |
| 15:51.19 | tristanbob_ | Sargun_screen, speaking of which, are you from utah? |
| 15:51.34 | tristanbob_ | or do you just prefer the digital company of utahns |
| 15:51.43 | Sargun_screen | no, I'm only here stalking emcnabb, and goozbach |
| 15:52.09 | Sargun_screen | mostly because the california-centric channels also attract the biggest nuts |
| 15:52.11 | tristanbob_ | good idea - the FBI won't do it, but someone needs to! |
| 15:53.01 | Sargun_screen | just got his honorary fbi agent acout badge |
| 15:53.04 | Sargun_screen | scout |
| 15:54.01 | JoshH | why would you want to stalk those guys? |
| 15:54.19 | JoshH | not that they aren't interesting, fine people |
| 15:54.32 | Sargun_screen | ask them. |
| 15:54.54 | JoshH | but really all you do is make me jealous because you're in california and i'm in utah |
| 15:54.57 | Sargun_screen | Now, a better question, shall I get a BACON breakfast burrito? |
| 15:54.58 | emcnabb | I've been running from Sargun_screen for almost 5 years now |
| 15:55.19 | JoshH | you should never have any kind of food that doesn't have bacon |
| 15:55.25 | Sargun_screen | emcnabb: has it been that long? |
| 15:55.31 | emcnabb | I think so |
| 15:55.36 | Sargun_screen | JoshH: I agree.. |
| 15:55.46 | emcnabb | you were in my first class in 2004 |
| 15:55.55 | emcnabb | I left GL in 2006 |
| 15:55.55 | Sargun_screen | yeah... |
| 15:56.03 | Sargun_screen | wow, it's been a while |
| 15:56.07 | emcnabb | been here at RH for almost 3 years |
| 15:56.23 | Sargun_screen | I was just 13... |
| 15:56.37 | Sargun_screen | What were you doing at 13? |
| 15:56.52 | emcnabb | stuff |
| 15:57.31 | Sargun_screen | hmm. |
| 15:58.23 | JoshH | ah, 7th grade memories |
| 15:58.38 | Sargun_screen | You know what we need? A hot chick, who is a software developer -- drugged out. |
| 15:58.59 | JoshH | i know of a website that has those |
| 16:03.03 | Sargun_screen | almost at the office |
| 16:03.34 | Sargun_screen | is so looking forward to telling the boss why the BGPDs went down |
| 16:08.17 | JoshH | http://failblog.org/2009/05/03/parenting-fail-9/ |
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| 16:14.06 | Sargun_screen | I'd like to strangle people over the phone |
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| 16:22.46 | sjansen | http://blog.fubar.dk/?p=105 <-- Linux sure has come a long way in the last decade. |
| 16:28.46 | jsmith | sjansen: Aye... (drives me nuts to think that IRIX had a bunch of this stuff 10 years ago) |
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| 17:01.00 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 17:01.00 | brac | gives tensai a melvin |
| 17:01.16 | tensai | -lart elg |
| 17:01.17 | brac | signs elg up for getting hit on the head lessons |
| 17:01.59 | elg | i got one of those raindrip container kits at lowes |
| 17:02.06 | elg | http://www.amazon.com/Raindrip-Container-Drip-Watering-R552DT/dp/B0006VOQS0 |
| 17:02.29 | Sargun | Anyone know of a good place to buy high quality cables? |
| 17:03.47 | elg | another important thing to have handy is plumber's tape |
| 17:04.19 | elg | even with it i have a bit of a drip at the hose and faucet |
| 17:04.28 | elg | i do have a cheap hose, but... |
| 17:05.01 | elg | http://foton.fugal.net/album/197 at the bottom and on the next page |
| 17:05.19 | elg | you can see my not-very-effective soaker hose solution there too |
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| 17:14.24 | tensai | elg: I bought one of those kits once, but it didn't have nearly enough parts for my garden and tons of things I didn't need |
| 17:14.28 | tensai | so I took it back |
| 17:15.23 | elg | yeah the bigger kits are silly that way |
| 17:15.27 | tensai | we just got a new roof and the run-off is amazing. I'm really serious about getting some rain barrels. |
| 17:15.33 | elg | this one has just the bare essentials |
| 17:15.48 | elg | but enough drippers for my small sfg |
| 17:15.52 | tensai | is the kit better than just buying the pieces separately? |
| 17:15.55 | elg | not enough of one kind |
| 17:15.59 | elg | it was a couple dollars cheaper |
| 17:16.10 | elg | they had the pieces there too, if you want to go custom |
| 17:16.24 | elg | there's also dripdepot.com which has a really nice interface and everything you need |
| 17:16.29 | elg | but then there's shipping of course |
| 17:17.26 | tensai | my biggest problem is that the garden and the hose bib have a patio between them, making it difficult to run permanent plumbing |
| 17:17.55 | elg | draping a hose across the patio counts as permament I guess. ;-) |
| 17:18.25 | tensai | selling the wife on that would be difficult |
| 17:18.29 | elg | there's always those quick-release attachments, if you can find one that doesn't leak |
| 17:18.51 | tensai | that's what I've got now and that's an improvement |
| 17:18.59 | tensai | but my ultimate goal is a programmable timer |
| 17:19.52 | elg | wimp. what you really want is a valve with wireless that you can control with your computer. |
| 17:20.19 | elg | on vacation, just send an email to water the garden. |
| 17:20.56 | goozbach | run a pipe around the patio |
| 17:21.33 | tensai | elg: would be cool, but ain't happening anytime soon |
| 17:22.01 | tensai | well my plan is to run some pipe all the way around the yard |
| 17:22.40 | tensai | I'm going to doing a started pvc project this week. then maybe next I'll try this one. |
| 17:22.56 | tensai | s/to doing a started/to be doing a starter/ |
| 17:26.03 | elg | tensai: so you have a holey hose now? |
| 17:26.19 | elg | do you have any problem with pressure or too much flow? |
| 17:30.15 | harleypig | ummm ... I think I glanced at this chat window at the wrong moment |
| 17:30.47 | elg | ~gutter harleypig |
| 17:34.27 | tensai | elg: yes, holey hose. and it works alright although a soaker hose it is not. creates more of a mist. |
| 17:35.06 | tensai | water pressure is decent |
| 17:36.20 | elg | if you want to reduce the pressure you can get little flow restricting discs that only let through a certain flow no matter the pressure (unless you have extremely high or low pressure) |
| 17:36.38 | elg | that would give you more of a drip than a spray |
| 17:37.01 | elg | http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=R425CT |
| 17:37.04 | brac | [Raindrip Compensating Flow Controls - Worm's Way] |
| 17:37.20 | elg | that's what I had for my soaker hose. works well |
| 17:37.48 | elg | and cheap, just a couple bucks (I got it at a local nursery, didn't look to see if they had them at lowes) |
| 17:42.02 | tensai | I've got a ball valve where the yard hose meets the garden. shouldn't that be able to regulate flow similarly? |
| 17:43.26 | elg | yes, a good valve and a steady hand can regulate flow too |
| 17:44.38 | elg | but it's really just a little dribble |
| 17:45.31 | elg | your hose probably isn't as critical as a soaker hose which can start looking more like a sprinkler than a soaker hose on too-high pressure after awhile. |
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| 18:00.38 | Levi | tensai: Catching your rooftop runoff might be illegal. |
| 18:01.37 | elg | -botsnack |
| 18:01.38 | brac | elg: schweet! |
| 18:02.09 | elg | -lart Levi with a capital L |
| 18:02.10 | brac | cats /dev/urandom into Levi with a capital L's ear |
| 18:02.23 | elg | Levi: is that to reflect your new graduit status? |
| 18:02.27 | Levi | Oops, didn't realize I did that. |
| 18:02.32 | elg | :) |
| 18:03.02 | MAQUIS | is now powerful... |
| 18:03.06 | Levi | My IRC client made me Levi` or something when it reconnected me, so I typed the capital L by accident when I was changing. |
| 18:03.51 | MAQUIS | yawns and tries to come up with an excuse to curl up under her desk |
| 18:04.05 | eLg | MAQUIS: roaches |
| 18:04.10 | eLg | you're hunting roaches |
| 18:04.14 | eLg | or ants |
| 18:04.16 | maquis | is too tired to be capitalized |
| 18:04.17 | eLg | or the pest du jour |
| 18:04.38 | levi | elg: That's a nice-looking rosemary bush. Did you grow it from seed? |
| 18:04.38 | maquis | the porkdemic? |
| 18:05.03 | eLg | levi: no, got it from the nursery |
| 18:05.16 | eLg | but it was only 1/4 that size when I did |
| 18:05.32 | levi | We've got one we started from seed, and it's graduated from its peat pellet into a pot. |
| 18:05.38 | tensai | levi: so I've heard is the case in utah. not sure about here. but if I don't do something I'll be in for a flooded basement. |
| 18:05.48 | eLg | it's been really going to town the last month or so. all rosemary around here has (and there's lots - it's used all over the place as a hedge) |
| 18:05.57 | eLg | it's rosemary growing season here |
| 18:06.02 | eLg | it's an evergeen in this climate |
| 18:06.29 | eLg | tensai: what did your old roof do with it? |
| 18:06.37 | tensai | mint is supposed to be hardy here, but I've killed two mint plants in two consecutive winters |
| 18:06.51 | Sargun | I HATE INTERNAPDWADLwado[pwklado[wa |
| 18:06.53 | maquis | eLg: our rosemary seemed to survive a couple piles of snow this past winter, and is still growing too... but i'm not sure how it did that :) |
| 18:07.02 | tensai | eLg: that's a really great question. it sure wasn't pouring down off the roof. you can start to see why we replaced it. |
| 18:07.15 | levi | Maybe we'll keep our rosemary in a pot so we can bring it inside for the winter. |
| 18:07.16 | Sargun | maquis, Tired from what? |
| 18:07.25 | eLg | you didn't want the liability of kids playing in the swimming pool on your roof? |
| 18:07.31 | maquis | Sargun: it's just a normal state of being these days |
| 18:07.54 | eLg | the daisy-like flowers are chamomile |
| 18:07.59 | eLg | smells great in that corner |
| 18:08.05 | levi | tensai: Can you pipe it out of your yard on a slope somewhere? |
| 18:08.12 | maquis | eLg: i'm assuming your'e referring to a pic? |
| 18:08.21 | eLg | yeah. |
| 18:08.22 | eLg | -urls |
| 18:08.22 | brac | no urls seen yet for channel #utah |
| 18:08.26 | eLg | stupid bot |
| 18:08.35 | tensai | maquis: http://foton.fugal.net/album/197 |
| 18:08.39 | eLg | http://foton.fugal.net/album/197?page=2 |
| 18:08.42 | levi | eLg: We've got a bunch of peas that are growing like crazy and a bunch of tomato starts that are looking good so far and just transplanted into some peat pots for hardening. |
| 18:08.58 | levi | Oh, a bunch of spinach and various lettuces, too. |
| 18:09.01 | eLg | i need to go get a tomato plant and get it in |
| 18:09.07 | eLg | i really should have done that two weeks ago |
| 18:09.43 | maquis | needs to plant, but just hasn't managed to do that yet |
| 18:09.58 | maquis | only thing we have planted is garlic... and it's probably about time to harvest that, i'm guessing |
| 18:10.05 | levi | I need to convince my wife to actually harvest the spinach leaves before they get too gigantic to be tasty. |
| 18:10.32 | tensai | maquis: garlic needs to be planted in the fall. harvest it in late summer. |
| 18:10.42 | eLg | my wife is quickly losing the privilege of caring what I grow |
| 18:10.46 | levi | We got a bunch of seed potatos... need to figure out how we're going to grow them. In a bucket? In a bag? |
| 18:10.49 | maquis | tensai: how do you know when it's ready |
| 18:10.50 | eLg | she doesn't harvest and use it |
| 18:10.54 | maquis | that's the main thing we'r estuck with... |
| 18:11.00 | levi | My wife is the one who wants to grow stuff! :) |
| 18:11.16 | maquis | above the ground, we've got a good 6-8 inches of growth... |
| 18:11.17 | levi | She planted everything. |
| 18:11.17 | eLg | and if i harvest it, she doesn't use it |
| 18:11.28 | eLg | it just wilts on the counter. :) |
| 18:11.48 | maquis | we did pretty good with tomatoes last year... but we planted too many of them |
| 18:12.01 | eLg | tomatos are an exception. she harvests and uses those. |
| 18:12.02 | maquis | and some of the species didn't work as well as others... |
| 18:12.10 | eLg | maybe she would the lettuce and spinach too, if she wasn't pregnant |
| 18:12.27 | eLg | she's usually a rabbit but doesn't eat as much salad when she's pregnant |
| 18:12.28 | levi | We're going to try aggressively pruning our tomatoes this year. They're all indeterminant, so they'll go absolutely crazy if we don't. |
| 18:12.38 | eLg | me too |
| 18:13.09 | maquis | eLg: interesting... i've been eating a bit more veggies recently... |
| 18:13.14 | maquis | can't handle meat very well |
| 18:13.40 | maquis | lots more spaghetti sauce, too, since that seems to not make me sick as much as most other foods |
| 18:14.28 | levi | So, we bought 20 peat pots, but it turns out we needed more with all the tomatoes and other stuff we had sprouting. |
| 18:15.03 | Sargun | Meat, on trees? |
| 18:15.04 | levi | And I need to get trellis netting up ASAP for the peas, which are starting to really take off. |
| 18:15.11 | Sargun | maquis, you're getting sick? Too much stress? |
| 18:15.59 | maquis | uh... not stress... expecting... |
| 18:16.01 | eLg | ~heart peat pots |
| 18:16.01 | ibot | I ⤠peat pots |
| 18:16.12 | Sargun | maquis, How many months? |
| 18:16.13 | maquis | so, yes, i get sick... most days |
| 18:16.17 | maquis | due in november |
| 18:16.19 | Sargun | maquis, and, congrats |
| 18:16.27 | maquis | thx |
| 18:16.32 | eLg | i have a happy green and jalapeño chile as well as thyme and basil ready to go in the garden |
| 18:16.41 | eLg | well, the peppers probably need another week |
| 18:16.54 | eLg | my wife is lucky, doesn't really get morning sickness |
| 18:17.04 | maquis | eLg: that's gotta be nice |
| 18:17.24 | Sargun | maquis, November is quite a ways away. |
| 18:17.29 | maquis | eLg: last year, we tried bell peppers... they didn't do so well with the climate up here.. |
| 18:17.30 | eLg | funny thing is November is less than 9 months away |
| 18:17.33 | maquis | Sargun: yes, it is... |
| 18:18.09 | eLg | wants to just give everyone a 0 or a 100 and not grade this lab |
| 18:18.15 | eLg | a 50 maybe? :) |
| 18:18.22 | Sargun | eLg, Yes, 8 months, right? |
| 18:18.36 | Sargun | maquis, You're going to have a fun time, eh? |
| 18:18.48 | maquis | eLg: 0 for the people who didn't do it or got it completely wrong, 100 for people who did well, and 50 for the people who put in effort? |
| 18:18.57 | maquis | or just go by how much they wrote |
| 18:19.05 | maquis | Sargun: yeah... |
| 18:19.12 | maquis | apparently the morning sickness is supposed to go away soon |
| 18:19.22 | eLg | 100 for people who indented correctly and 0 for everyone else. |
| 18:19.31 | eLg | forget testing :) |
| 18:19.33 | Sargun | 100 if it compiles |
| 18:19.38 | levi | eLg: We've got some really happy basil plants, and our oregano is really taking off too. |
| 18:19.55 | maquis | Sargun: and actually, it's a little less than 7 months left... :) |
| 18:20.10 | Sargun | had a teacher with a unit testing suite, he'd test every one of our functions (we had to implement it in a very specific way), and based on that we'd get a grade |
| 18:20.37 | Sargun | and we could request him to look at functions that got a 0, but then he could also take away points |
| 18:21.02 | Sargun | maquis, 210 days, 5040 hours, etc, etc... |
| 18:21.08 | maquis | he could take away points from something that got a 0? |
| 18:21.23 | Sargun | maquis, he'd take away points from the total grade |
| 18:21.36 | Sargun | They're all numbers that humans assign to unique increments of time. |
| 18:21.55 | Sargun | What really matters if how many times you throw up, how many times you just can't bring yourself to wake up. |
| 18:22.05 | Sargun | How many times you crave a big mac, but know it's bad for the baby :-P |
| 18:22.11 | maquis | Sargun: i don't fully understand why a teacher would care about what each function does... |
| 18:22.14 | maquis | Sargun: yeah... |
| 18:22.22 | eLg | pshaw, the baby will totally survive a big mac |
| 18:22.27 | Sargun | maquis, It was his way of actually being able to grade 200+ students. |
| 18:22.35 | Sargun | maquis, and still give them partial credit. |
| 18:22.54 | Sargun | maquis, Most people didn't have code that worked in that class, so a partial answer was okay. |
| 18:22.56 | maquis | there's been a few random days i've just worked from home because i couldn't make it into the office... despite the fact that i haven't told anyone at work yet... |
| 18:23.06 | maquis | Sargun: see... i would do it by test cases... |
| 18:23.18 | maquis | if your code can solve the basic case, you get some partial credit |
| 18:23.24 | Sargun | maquis, What about the people who broke the output formatting function? :-P |
| 18:23.35 | maquis | if you can handle this corner case, you get a bit more, if you can get all the points |
| 18:24.05 | maquis | Sargun: well, that's a problem |
| 18:24.51 | maquis | the important thing is, they should have the ability to run the testing stuff (for at least one simple case) so that they can know exactly what the output format he's expecting is |
| 18:25.21 | maquis | if their code can't handle the most basic case correctly, then they don't get points |
| 18:26.07 | Sargun | maquis, Also, what about the people who hard code answers into their code? |
| 18:26.17 | Sargun | for the 100 simplest cases |
| 18:26.24 | maquis | Sargun: that's why they only get one sample case |
| 18:26.52 | maquis | so, if they hard-code, they can get at most the simplest ones, which should not give them enough to pass |
| 18:26.58 | maquis | partial credit, but not enough to do well |
| 18:28.45 | Sargun | yeah |
| 18:29.16 | Sargun | If I was a teacher, I would ask people to provide their answer as an object, whether that be a .so, a java class, or whatever |
| 18:29.24 | Sargun | then I could link against it |
| 18:29.39 | Sargun | and do testing on many different cases. |
| 18:29.56 | maquis | yeah |
| 18:29.58 | eLg | brilliant. that makes it real easy to detect plagiarism |
| 18:30.16 | Sargun | eLg, Well, I mean something that compiles to an object. |
| 18:30.23 | Sargun | If they ask, I'd look at their code, but telling them, if they waste my time, they could be docked points. |
| 18:30.24 | maquis | i'd rather have it with code too |
| 18:30.42 | maquis | because you want to make sure they're using intelligent coding practices |
| 18:30.52 | maquis | (ie, indenting, etc... i don't grade on commenting, though) |
| 18:31.17 | Sargun | maquis, I've written multi-thousand line pieces of code that I maintain today, they don't use comments or descriptive variables |
| 18:31.24 | eLg | i like the unit test and/or link approach. it makes grading a cinch - you can even do it where the prof goes into the code and gives advice with the red pen on why it's broke and how to fix it (which I usually do in small enough classes) |
| 18:31.48 | eLg | vague "make it do this" where there's lots of user interaction makes grading a royal pain |
| 18:32.09 | Sargun | eLg, I'd like to tell them to do make it so in the code, they can comment their functions in a special way |
| 18:32.18 | Sargun | which will make the testing frame work independently look at those |
| 18:32.20 | eLg | when it's my own class I do grade on commenting - if they have too many comments I dock points |
| 18:32.21 | maquis | Sargun: but you do indent, right? |
| 18:32.39 | eLg | and indentation is a big issue to me |
| 18:33.11 | maquis | over-commenting is annoying |
| 18:33.34 | maquis | some comments are nice if they make sense... (and aren't lying)... |
| 18:33.42 | maquis | but lots of people don't comment in the real-world |
| 18:33.51 | maquis | now, indentation... that's something that people actually need to do |
| 18:34.02 | maquis | i don't care which of the various standards you use for indentation |
| 18:34.15 | maquis | i certainly have my preferences, but if it is logical and makes some level of sense, it's fine |
| 18:34.33 | maquis | if every line is off against the left side of the screen, the student fails |
| 18:34.37 | dataw0lf | I don't think I've seen much professional code that's unindented. |
| 18:34.38 | Sargun | maquis, It's mostly python code, so, yes, I do indent. |
| 18:34.53 | dataw0lf | ah, talking about class. |
| 18:34.55 | maquis | dataw0lf: yeah... that's my point :) |
| 18:34.57 | Sargun | dataw0lf, Have you ever read code written by mathematicians? |
| 18:34.57 | eLg | I think I prefer wholly-unindented code to the mess that I often see |
| 18:35.06 | dataw0lf | mathematicians work? |
| 18:35.09 | eLg | partially-indented, with no rhyme or reason |
| 18:35.14 | Sargun | dataw0lf, haha |
| 18:35.20 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 18:35.28 | maquis | dataw0lf: classes focus so much on commenting, but i think it's more important to teach students how to indent and write the code clearly |
| 18:35.30 | eLg | which usually comes from people trying half-heartedly to maintain a different indent level than the auto-indenting editor |
| 18:35.32 | levi | I thought mathematicians wrote proofs, not programs. |
| 18:36.00 | maquis | eLg: the one thing thta does bug me sometimes is when different people work on the same file, with different indention settings... |
| 18:36.17 | dataw0lf | maquis: I haven't seen much student code, but I don't recall my professors really leaning on commenting or indentation/code cleanliness, seems to be a no-brainer. |
| 18:36.21 | unum | maquis: it's REALLY fun in python |
| 18:36.23 | dataw0lf | Good commenting just takes experience. |
| 18:36.45 | maquis | dataw0lf: i've seen enough of profs talking about commenting, and how you should have plenty of comments... |
| 18:36.49 | eLg | most of these students had a course last semester (their first programming course) where the prof wanted them to use kate and indent with 3 spaces (and didn't bother telling them how to turn on autoindent) |
| 18:36.56 | unum | is a tabber |
| 18:37.05 | eLg | this semester their teech wants them to use eclipse, which uses 4 space auto-indent by default |
| 18:37.19 | levi | (Though the Curry-Howard Isomorphism says that every proof corresponds to a program) |
| 18:37.20 | eLg | some people change it to 3 spaces (each line one by one as they type it) |
| 18:37.30 | dataw0lf | maquis: mebbe I tuned them out (a strong possibility) |
| 18:37.41 | maquis | granted, i might've gotten a lot of that because i really didn't care that much about commenting. i really don't comment all that much... instead, i try to write so that in 3-6 months if i looked back at the code, i should know what i was doing based on looking at it |
| 18:37.42 | eLg | others just use spaces when they have to manually insert code but accept 4 spaces the rest of the time |
| 18:37.44 | eLg | etc. |
| 18:37.48 | eLg | it's ridiculous |
| 18:38.08 | dataw0lf | eLg: dang |
| 18:38.11 | levi | Poor elg. |
| 18:38.43 | eLg | believes the code should speak for itself, and the comments should guide the reader so he doesn't have to grok the significance of subtleties while scanning the code |
| 18:39.00 | eLg | if the comment isn't guiding, at a higher level than the code, it doesn't belong there. |
| 18:39.43 | dataw0lf | In the professional world I usually see code that's pretty well formatted, but developers tend to get lackadaisical with markup language formatting. |
| 18:40.05 | eLg | but i'll settle for well-indented. :) |
| 18:40.17 | maquis | eLg: i'm with you on that... |
| 18:40.39 | eLg | although if I could singelhandedly outlaw // end {if,while,for,method,main,etc.} comments I wouldn't hesitate |
| 18:40.56 | dataw0lf | eLg: Ugh. |
| 18:41.05 | maquis | i've also seen too many comments where, after looking at the code under them, i determined that the comment was a complete lie |
| 18:41.12 | eLg | the sad thing is of course that their teachers told them to put them there |
| 18:41.28 | eLg | and the code in the book, in true java style, includes and emphasizes them. |
| 18:41.34 | maquis | one teammate gave me a hard time because i had done some changes to a script we had, and when i was done, there were more lines of code and fewer comments... |
| 18:42.29 | eLg | i have no problem with a comment indicating the end of a long function or loop or something where the context has scrolled off the screen |
| 18:42.38 | eLg | but they should be used sparingly |
| 18:42.50 | dataw0lf | http://gizmodo.com/5235681/app-converts-android-g1-into-airport-security+like-handheld-metal-detector |
| 18:42.50 | eLg | otherwise they make it harder to read |
| 18:42.54 | eLg | and readability is king |
| 18:47.38 | unum | I've come to realize my most imporant comments are WHY I did something a certain way |
| 18:47.57 | unum | i can usually tell what I'm doing by reading variable and function names |
| 18:48.39 | maquis | yeah |
| 18:48.47 | maquis | describing what i'm doing is kinda useless |
| 18:49.34 | maquis | even something as simple as a bug number or something like that can be insanely useful as a comment, i've found |
| 18:50.00 | maquis | but "i'm going to mod this value now" is kinda useless |
| 18:50.05 | maquis | i can see that i'm modding the value |
| 18:52.39 | Sargun | has written unindented python code, it's fun |
| 18:56.22 | Supaplex | Sargun: the fans are too loud for my liking. that's why. |
| 18:57.56 | Sargun | ah |
| 19:09.37 | unum | Sargun: how did you write unindented python code |
| 19:12.17 | maquis | one-liner? |
| 19:13.51 | sjansen | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/funny-pictures-cat-plots-to-get-cheeseburger.jpg |
| 19:13.51 | atoponce | http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/popculture/a359/zoom/ |
| 19:13.54 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: God Kills a LOLcat :: Zoom!] |
| 19:15.24 | sjansen | import sys ; print sys.argv[0] ; print 'how sick am i?' |
| 19:15.25 | tensai | eLg: sourdough pancakes worked out great on saturday |
| 19:15.34 | eLg | sweet |
| 19:15.36 | eLg | nice and sour? |
| 19:15.50 | maquis | sourdough pancakes? |
| 19:15.53 | maquis | is interested |
| 19:16.02 | eLg | i'll send ya some start if you want |
| 19:16.05 | eLg | they're easy |
| 19:17.47 | tensai | eLg: yes, nice and sour. I made sure to avoid any basic items like milk. also this incarnation of my start is just more sour to begin with. |
| 19:18.49 | eLg | cool |
| 19:19.15 | eLg | if you feel like playing with it, here's something to try: keep back some of the liquid from the start and add it in just before cooking |
| 19:19.30 | Supaplex | sour DOH! |
| 19:19.52 | eLg | the lower hydration will make it more buffering, so you get more acid buildup before the pH drops low enough to inhibit the organisms |
| 19:19.58 | eLg | == more sour taste. |
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| 19:21.01 | eLg | ifn' you're looking for ultimate sour |
| 19:21.09 | eLg | i find the normal works fine |
| 19:21.21 | eLg | tensai: what do you mean this incarnation? |
| 19:21.52 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@66-182-82-217.static.slcl007.digis.net) |
| 19:24.51 | tensai | eLg: I gave my start an overhaul a while back (month or two ago) |
| 19:25.05 | tensai | it's now at 150% hydration or so where the old one was 100% |
| 19:25.20 | eLg | i remember something about it being mostly dead |
| 19:25.34 | eLg | and you find that makes it sourer? |
| 19:25.48 | tensai | it seemed to be. I was able to revive it and yes now it's definitely more sour. |
| 19:26.00 | eLg | cool |
| 19:26.06 | eLg | what's the feeding schedule? |
| 19:26.15 | tensai | whenever I think of it |
| 19:26.29 | tensai | once every week or two, or three if I go to alabama |
| 19:26.39 | eLg | in the fridge? |
| 19:26.42 | tensai | yes |
| 19:26.57 | eLg | when you overhauled it you fed it on the counter for a few days? |
| 19:27.03 | tensai | I have about 8 ounces of it |
| 19:27.37 | tensai | yup. I took a small amount of start and augmented with loads of flour/water. can't recall how long I left it but I knew when it was ready because it bubbled like mad. |
| 19:28.04 | eLg | ok |
| 19:28.11 | eLg | here's what happened (cue Monk) |
| 19:28.35 | tensai | watched monk last night |
| 19:28.47 | eLg | keeping it in the fridge all the time favors the yeast over the bacteria, so over time it gets less and less sour. in your case it may have been really out of whack and mostly dead. |
| 19:28.59 | eLg | feeding it on the counter would rebalance things |
| 19:29.24 | eLg | i just learned all this in the past month or so. i hadn't mostly killed mine, but it was less sour |
| 19:29.37 | eLg | so, if you make this small change things will go much nicer |
| 19:29.48 | tensai | before I revamped, I left the old start out for a while and it just didn't have any visible growth. |
| 19:29.49 | eLg | still feed it once a week or two or three months - whatever |
| 19:30.08 | eLg | but when you do feed it, feed it and let it sit on the counter for 12 hoursish |
| 19:30.14 | eLg | then feed it again and put it in the fridge |
| 19:30.19 | eLg | that'll keep the critters balanced |
| 19:30.24 | tensai | that's close to what I do now |
| 19:30.27 | eLg | and you don't need to keep 8 oz |
| 19:30.34 | eLg | i keep abt 1 or 2 oz |
| 19:30.55 | tensai | I feed it generally when I use it, so I feed and let it sit, then steal half for my dough and return the rest |
| 19:31.05 | eLg | sounds good |
| 19:31.21 | tensai | 8 oz is the size that fits my container nicely and I find it's a good amount for doing pancakes |
| 19:31.35 | eLg | it is a good amt for pancakes |
| 19:31.44 | eLg | as long as you're not swimming in excess start, more power to ya :) |
| 19:31.58 | tensai | it works for now so I ain't messin' with it |
| 19:32.03 | eLg | the difference between doubling and octupling is about 2 hours at room temperature |
| 19:32.14 | eLg | so you can make up for it with 2 hours more fermentation time or you can keep 8 oz |
| 19:43.27 | Sargun | unum, lambda |
| 19:43.55 | Sargun | unum, Some custom processing functions which would reduce intelligently |
| 19:44.31 | tensai | maquis: http://www.sourdoughbreads.com/SourdoughPancakes.htm |
| 19:44.32 | brac | [Sourdough Pancakes Recipe] |
| 19:44.46 | Sargun | Ooh, you should make some |
| 19:44.48 | tensai | although I recommend skipping the milk |
| 19:46.07 | jsmith | Oooh... I got the best pancake recipe the other day |
| 19:48.42 | maquis | ~convert 1 parsec light year |
| 19:48.53 | maquis | ~convert parsec to light year |
| 19:49.42 | eLg | tensai: do you skip the soda? |
| 19:49.51 | eLg | the soda is going to be much more basic than the milk |
| 19:50.03 | eLg | and you want some if you want to build up bubbles |
| 19:52.30 | tensai | eLg: no, I don't skip the soda. I just don't want to neutralize that dough before adding the soda. I suppose if they went in together. |
| 19:52.59 | tensai | now has a craving for pancakes |
| 19:53.19 | maquis | had pancakes for dinner last night |
| 19:53.23 | maquis | cannery pancakes... |
| 19:53.51 | jsmith | had pancakes for breakfast |
| 19:54.37 | maquis | eLg: you use white or wheat for these? |
| 19:54.38 | jsmith | http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/instant-pancake-mix-recipe/index.html |
| 19:54.47 | eLg | we usually do wheat |
| 19:54.47 | brac | [Instant Pancake Mix Recipe : Alton Brown : Food Network] |
| 19:54.57 | maquis | eLg: cool |
| 19:55.00 | eLg | the recipe I use is http://joepastry.web.aplus.net/index.php?cat=86 |
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| 20:10.40 | eLg | jsmith: i'm sorry, but those don't qualify as instant |
| 20:10.53 | eLg | the ingredient list is longer than the list of ingredients for the mix |
| 20:11.41 | jsmith | eLg: I know, but they're oh-so delicious! |
| 20:11.59 | eLg | :) |
| 20:12.34 | eLg | dried eggs and dried buttermilk, if they didn't ruin them, would render them truly instant |
| 20:12.52 | jsmith | Yup |
| 20:12.53 | eLg | if you left out the butter. although I'd be willing to grant you two ingredients and still call them instant. |
| 20:12.54 | eLg | butter and water |
| 20:13.27 | jsmith | What if I used just milk, butter, and eggs... would that be close enough? |
| 20:13.39 | jsmith | feels like he's bargaining with the devil |
| 20:13.40 | goozbach | betty crocker instant |
| 20:14.02 | eLg | nope. definitely not |
| 20:14.06 | *** topic/#utah by atoponce -> http://utos.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah | UTOSC 2009 Dates and Venue - http://tinyurl.com/utosc2009-venue | findlay marries on may 9 |
| 20:14.09 | eLg | but if you used just milk and eggs, that might count. |
| 20:14.31 | eLg | read that initially as "findlay marries atoponce on may 9" |
| 20:14.37 | eLg | thank you nonlinear brain. |
| 20:14.48 | atoponce | heh |
| 20:15.08 | atoponce | flattered, but taken |
| 20:16.13 | maquis | eLg: it took me over a minute to figure out *how* you got that |
| 20:17.40 | eLg | my client said "findlay marries on may 9 by atoponce" |
| 20:18.19 | eLg | yeah, there's an ending quote mark in there to break it up, which actually initially caused me to think findlay was marrying a 9" tall atoponce before my mind rejected that. |
| 20:20.54 | unum | I know a girl who's 4'9" that wants to marry me |
| 20:21.00 | unum | 9" would be a lot shorter |
| 20:21.52 | atoponce | i'm glad i'm not 9" tall. that would suck trying to fit in |
| 20:21.52 | Sargun | unum, that's interesting. |
| 20:22.29 | unum | on saturday I saw an asian albino girl who's about the same height |
| 20:22.38 | atoponce | i guess there's a kid in nepal that's 20" tall. so i guess you can't completely rule out 9" |
| 20:29.47 | harleypig | I want this clown mask! http://pictureisunrelated.com/2009/04/30/nobody-suspects-anything/ |
| 20:38.08 | *** join/#utah mlovell (n=mike@204.15.87.226) |
| 20:41.02 | mlovell | hey everyone. i got a question about linux file ownership and groups. |
| 20:41.02 | mlovell | i have a directory that is owned by a group of which my user account is a member but this group is not my primary group. if i create file in this directory, the ownership on it is my user and my primary group. is there a way i make it automatically make the new file owned by me and the group that owns the directory? |
| 20:43.00 | dataw0lf | mlovell: make sure the group of the containing directory is the one you always want the files to be set to, then do a chmod g+s containing_directory |
| 20:43.34 | atoponce | mlovell: check out chmod g+s |
| 20:43.46 | mlovell | thx. i'll look into that. |
| 20:44.37 | goozbach | maquis: m |
| 20:44.39 | goozbach | j |
| 20:46.36 | goozbach | grrr |
| 20:46.40 | goozbach | stupid connection |
| 20:46.56 | goozbach | mlovell: it's called the User Private Group scheme |
| 20:47.01 | mlovell | dataw0lf, atoponce. that appears to do exactly what i want. thx a lot. |
| 20:47.16 | dataw0lf | np |
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| 21:48.13 | levi | goozbach: I thought 'User Private Group scheme' referred to each user having a primary group of the same name, e.g. user goozbach has primary group goozbach. |
| 21:49.43 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@komodo.mcnabbs.org) |
| 21:50.03 | goozbach | yes, but the reason UPG was created was to solve this very problem mlovell was having |
| 21:50.31 | goozbach | ease of collaboration on a shared directory which is Set GID |
| 21:52.01 | levi | I'm not seeing the connection between the two, unless the directory is set to someone else's private GID rather than an unrelated GID. |
| 21:52.42 | goozbach | UPG isn't only having your own default private group |
| 21:53.01 | goozbach | it's also a umask of 0002 vs 0022 |
| 21:54.30 | goozbach | http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/ref-guide/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html |
| 21:54.39 | goozbach | http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/09/using_user_private_groups.html |
| 21:54.40 | brac | [Using User Private Groups - O'Reilly ONLamp Blog] |
| 21:54.55 | goozbach | chmod g+s is only a step in the overall goal of UPG |
| 21:55.11 | goozbach | as a matter of fact UPG allows chmod g+s to function properly |
| 21:55.20 | harleypig | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMfmzEpvW-g |
| 21:55.48 | harleypig | Did you read the paper today? |
| 21:57.36 | eLg | wow, there's that kid kisisng pig picture |
| 21:57.44 | eLg | it's really making the rounds this weekend |
| 21:57.56 | eLg | interestingly this vid is dated aug 2007 |
| 22:00.14 | *** join/#utah gillyboat (n=adam@66.7.122.158) |
| 22:01.31 | levi | listens to the new Decemberists album. |
| 22:03.23 | levi | Mmm, I love Hammond organ in rock music. |
| 22:24.15 | sjansen | http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/song-chart-memes-things-twittered.jpg |
| 22:39.53 | *** join/#utah unum_ (n=unum@li32-23.members.linode.com) |
| 22:45.26 | maquis | listens to il divo... |
| 22:51.14 | maquis | "cuando pense que mi alma habia muerto, llegaste tu, como la luz del sol" o/~ |
| 22:53.16 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristanb@ubuntu/member/tristanbob) |
| 22:55.27 | maquis | "corathon" <-- carloth eth de ethpana |
| 23:05.17 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@hao.codegreene.com) |
| 23:09.45 | sjansen | hateth the lithp |
| 23:11.16 | sjansen | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfma7-qGMTo <-- maquis Juanes is Good Stuff (tm) |
| 23:13.54 | *** part/#utah gillyboat (n=adam@66.7.122.158) |
| 23:14.37 | sjansen | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj51nEyRuN8 <-- Second favorite Juanes song |
| 23:15.26 | eLg | ah, it's good to see he's broken out of the lucite |
| 23:16.01 | neybar | it's tough stuff to get out of. |
| 23:29.03 | maquis | kinda likes the "lithp" when it's done correctly |
| 23:32.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp35.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:32.37 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:34.24 | maquis | discovered a very good article on the spanish lisp on wikipedia :) |
| 23:35.00 | Sargun | Grr, I need a a "find the word I'm thinking of" machine |
| 23:35.18 | Sargun | Affirmed, ACKed, etc.. |
| 23:35.19 | maquis | long or short? |
| 23:35.32 | maquis | received? |
| 23:35.35 | Sargun | Responded, and said that they understood, and were troubleshooting the issue. |
| 23:35.53 | maquis | acknowledged? |
| 23:35.57 | Sargun | ah, yes. |
| 23:36.06 | Sargun | ACK = Acknowledgement |
| 23:36.08 | Sargun | haha |
| 23:36.08 | goozbach | maquis: share? |
| 23:36.08 | maquis | you know... that's where "ACKed" came from :) |
| 23:36.22 | maquis | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceceo |
| 23:36.30 | goozbach | Sargun: it's called google |
| 23:36.51 | maquis | distincio'n is the one that makes most sense |
| 23:36.52 | dataw0lf | Goo-gul? |
| 23:37.15 | maquis | dataw0lf: yeah... it's a variant of the seagull |
| 23:37.25 | dataw0lf | oh, right, right! |
| 23:37.38 | maquis | often found flying through the surf on the internet |
| 23:38.27 | maquis | occasionally known to pick up packets and drop them on the roof of your house to break them open and eat the insides |
| 23:38.40 | maquis | kind of like seagulls do with clams |
| 23:38.51 | Sargun | maquis, Clams taste good. |
| 23:39.23 | maquis | yes they do, especially steamed and served in a tasty broth with a small bowl of melted butter |
| 23:39.42 | dataw0lf | nom |
| 23:41.03 | maquis | (when i was little, i used to always be very confused as to why there were clamshells on our roof) |
| 23:41.57 | maquis | after a while, the gulls got smarter and started dropping the clams on our driveway, where the shells always broke instead of sometimes not breaking |
| 23:42.11 | goozbach | I'm allergic to clams |
| 23:42.16 | maquis | sad |
| 23:42.22 | goozbach | ... you insensitive clod |
| 23:42.25 | goozbach | ! |
| 23:42.26 | goozbach | :) |
| 23:42.49 | maquis | that's okay... you can come up here and have salmon instead |
| 23:43.04 | harleypig | HeeEEEEeeeeeeEEElp! |
| 23:43.47 | harleypig | I'm trying to make tcpdump show me outbound traffic but it's not listening to me. |
| 23:44.09 | maquis | harleypig: that's your problem. you're trying to get it to listen to you |
| 23:44.21 | maquis | you want to get it to listen to the traffic instead |
| 23:44.23 | Sargun | goozbach, ha! |
| 23:44.28 | maquis | needs sleep badly |
| 23:44.41 | harleypig | pumps a few more quarters into maquis |
| 23:45.14 | harleypig | wonders if he's going to be the only one to see a reference ... |
| 23:45.48 | maquis | elf needs sleep badly? |
| 23:46.20 | maquis | i've never played that game, but i learned the reference thanks to nethack |
| 23:46.26 | harleypig | video game ... when character was get slammed one of the phrases was "darf needs food badly" |
| 23:46.29 | harleypig | ah |
| 23:47.03 | harleypig | I pressed enter and thought "oh crap ... maybe no one will get the reference and I'll look like (more of) a tool"! :> |
| 23:47.10 | maquis | i usually play barbarian, though, so... |
| 23:47.24 | harleypig | heh |
| 23:47.33 | maquis | but when i played an elven ranger a few times in nethack, i saw the elf needs food badly message a lot |
| 23:47.38 | maquis | barbarians are hard to starve... |
| 23:48.28 | harleypig | anyway, anyone have a tcpdump filter that will show me the contents of outbound traffic? I need to make sure thtat the apache server really isn't sending anything to the client. |
| 23:50.28 | goozbach | tcpdump -i eth0 dst not 127.0.0.1 and dst not <local IP> |
| 23:50.30 | goozbach | ? |
| 23:51.13 | maquis | feels sick again :( |
| 23:51.14 | Sargun | goozbach, and port 80? |
| 23:51.20 | Sargun | maquis, :-/ |
| 23:51.24 | Sargun | maquis, Try ginger candy? |
| 23:51.29 | goozbach | port 80 |
| 23:51.32 | goozbach | yeah that too |
| 23:51.53 | Sargun | goozbach, why would you have dst = 127.0.0.1 on eth0? That'd be bad. |
| 23:52.09 | goozbach | well, I wasn't thinking |
| 23:52.22 | Sargun | That's apparent. |
| 23:52.28 | maquis | Sargun: i've been going for lots of ginger |
| 23:52.32 | maquis | i've got ginger altoids |
| 23:52.44 | goozbach | the overall idea is harleypig is looking for the 'dst' filter |
| 23:53.04 | harleypig | I've got the dst filter ... but how do i show the contents of the packet. |
| 23:54.11 | thesuperbigfrog | thinks its time to brew another batch of herbal tea |
| 23:54.37 | maquis | thesuperbigfrog: yeah... we should do that tonight |
| 23:54.49 | maquis | cuz that works better than the altoids for some reason |
| 23:54.59 | Sargun | harleypig, Realize you cannot see the packets, only realize the truth. That the packets are not really there. |
| 23:55.35 | maquis | Sargun: no... he can see the packet... but the viewing may alter their state |
| 23:55.35 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:55.40 | Sargun | oh, and -A... |
| 23:55.43 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:55.48 | Sargun | tcpdump -A |
| 23:55.50 | maquis | hey! |
| 23:55.53 | harleypig | heh |
| 23:55.55 | maquis | what'd i do? |
| 23:56.08 | harleypig | you responded to Sargun |
| 23:56.21 | harleypig | where the heck is -A documented? |
| 23:56.31 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:56.31 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:56.37 | Sargun | the man page? |
| 23:56.39 | maquis | harleypig: what's wrong with that? |
| 23:56.41 | harleypig | i'll be dipped. |
| 23:57.11 | thesuperbigfrog | The packets belong to Juffo-Wup. They need to spread beyond to places hot and crusty |
| 23:57.16 | harleypig | maquis: he made a bad matrix reference to a non-existent sequal and you responded in kind |
| 23:57.19 | harleypig | :> |
| 23:57.31 | maquis | mine wasn't related to the matrix though |
| 23:57.43 | maquis | at least not intentionally |
| 23:58.09 | maquis | i haven't actually seen said non-existant sequel (at least i don't think i have...) |
| 23:58.43 | harleypig | ah ... I s'pose that can be forgiven then ... I guess |
