| 00:11.30 | sjansen | Rolcol: Ignore synic. |
| 00:11.46 | Rolcol | I thought as much |
| 00:15.24 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-97-1.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 00:15.24 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 01:12.12 | *** join/#utah romanovic (n=romanovi@c-67-166-73-213.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:29.02 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:37.31 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 02:36.24 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-97-1.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 02:36.24 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 02:36.34 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@74-81-244-222.static.sdyl005.digis.net) |
| 02:36.34 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 02:47.59 | *** join/#utah markl__ (n=mark@tpsit.com) |
| 02:53.16 | levi | Man, missed interesting discussion again. |
| 02:53.42 | levi | Yay for sjansen arguing against the libertarian-types. |
| 02:53.59 | Jayce^ | 'cause that must be cool somehow.. |
| 02:55.21 | levi | Someone's gotta do it. :) |
| 02:55.35 | levi | What fun would life be if everyone agreed with you? |
| 02:55.36 | Jayce^ | yeah, we'd hate to see people keep their rights :) |
| 03:01.13 | levi | I hate dogmatic philosophies of government, and I welcome mixed, pragmatic forms. |
| 03:01.42 | levi | So I think libertarians and communists are equally goofy. |
| 03:04.22 | levi | In a way, I've got a very conservative view on government. |
| 03:05.31 | Jayce^ | I'm quite conservative, I don't identify with the libertarians a lot of the time.. too many kooks.. but they have many valid points. |
| 03:05.50 | Jayce^ | I want the govt to leave me alone, the way it was designed too |
| 03:05.56 | levi | I view government as a process that has been steadily evolving throughout western history, and I value both the traditions that have accumulated and the evolutionary process. |
| 03:06.51 | levi | I see the Constitution not as a starting point, but as a monumental milestone. |
| 03:08.15 | levi | It doesn't wholly define what our government is; there's far more to it than what is in that particular document, and there always has been. |
| 03:09.58 | levi | I don't think the government was ever designed or meant to 'leave you alone'. Government has always played a large role in shaping of society, and rightly so. |
| 03:10.58 | Jayce^ | not true, I think our govt was designed to keep things that effected you personally to be goverened at a closer level.. |
| 03:11.38 | levi | Well, it was designed as a compromise between people who wanted that and people who wanted a stronger federal government. |
| 03:11.39 | Jayce^ | the point of our change was that it did recognize that difference. that the govt wasn't the source of truth, and rights |
| 03:12.41 | levi | It always has been a compromise document written by people with differing points of view. |
| 03:13.06 | levi | Rather, the entire system of government has always been a compromise between people with differing points of view. |
| 03:13.31 | levi | At least as long as the governed have had influence over their government. |
| 03:14.18 | Jayce^ | but now we treat it in reverse, the govt grants us what rights it deems ok, which is the opposite of our design |
| 03:14.27 | levi | Pretending that there was ever a single guiding philosophy and unanimous agreement around it is disingenous. |
| 03:15.37 | levi | There was never really an escape from that. |
| 03:15.41 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 03:17.00 | Jayce^ | so individual rights must not exist, as that could never be an agreed upon concept by the convention.. somebody *must* have disagreed... |
| 03:17.31 | levi | I'm not saying they don't exist, but the government has always had the power to limit them. |
| 03:17.46 | Jayce^ | I think obama's quote actually summed it up well, though he viewed it as a negative... |
| 03:18.28 | Jayce^ | "I believe the fundamental flaw of the constitution is that it is a restrictive document, it limits what the government can do for you" |
| 03:19.21 | levi | I knew you were going to pull that quote. |
| 03:19.32 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 03:19.43 | Jayce^ | or there is "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. " |
| 03:19.54 | levi | I don't believe those are exactly the words he used, either. |
| 03:20.43 | Jayce^ | my best from memory |
| 03:20.54 | Jayce^ | searching for it is a PITA with all the related discussion about it |
| 03:21.55 | levi | I read the transcript when it was first made a big issue, and I felt he was being deliberately misinterpreted. It was not exactly a straightforward sentenece, as far as I remember. |
| 03:29.55 | levi | The interview from which that was taken was Obama arguing against using the courts to bring about 'redistributive' change, in favor of community organizing. From what I was able to suss out, 'redistributive change' is a technical term (legal? sociological? I don't remember) for any sort of movement of wealth from one group in society to another, and doesn't necessarily mean that it's done by the government. |
| 03:32.12 | levi | And the 'fundamental flaw' was used in relation to the country, not the constitution. He said there was a 'blind spot' in the Constitution regarding the rights of African Americans that was a reflection of the culture of the day. |
| 03:36.49 | levi | It is really hard to search for the actual context. So much right-wing blog nonsense. |
| 03:41.01 | levi | http://apolloroom.blogspot.com/ |
| 03:41.19 | levi | There we go, that one's got a transcript of one of the interviews. |
| 03:43.23 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 03:43.47 | levi | You can really spin it either way, but what I see in there is Obama saying that the government has never been set up to make the federal or state government shift wealth to you, and expressing disappointment in the civil rights movment for expending so much effort trying to get it to do so through the courts. He believes that their effort would have been better spent organizing themselves and taking control of their own condition. |
| 03:45.13 | levi | I see him saying exactly the opposite of what the right-wing commentators want him to be saying, but putting it in fairly academic terms. |
| 03:45.22 | Sargun | how do you find your current PID in bash? Does bash have any internal IO functions? |
| 03:46.56 | levi | Apparently I put Jayce^ to sleep. |
| 03:48.47 | fugue88 | Sargun: echo $$ |
| 03:49.00 | fugue88 | echo "internal IO functions? what do you mean?" | less |
| 03:50.24 | levi | I hate shell script. |
| 03:50.42 | fugue88 | Don't be hatin' |
| 03:52.15 | Sargun | fugue88, thanks. |
| 03:52.20 | fugue88 | np |
| 03:54.29 | Sargun | how do you find out the pid of your child? |
| 03:54.58 | fugue88 | $! maybe |
| 03:55.20 | fugue88 | info bash, go to variables index |
| 03:55.46 | fugue88 | ! is listed there |
| 03:58.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-97-1.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 03:58.11 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 04:54.25 | *** join/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75.145.58.209) |
| 04:54.26 | bonez46 | hmmmmmm blackbird pie....! |
| 04:59.06 | bonez46 | how would one image a disk.. over to a similarly sized or larger hard drive? |
| 05:00.04 | RyanE | I would image the exact image, and then use QTParted on it (unmounted) to resize it to the larger disk size. |
| 05:00.19 | RyanE | at least that's what I've done before, and it seems to work for me. |
| 05:01.14 | bonez46 | how do you image the drive though? partimage? |
| 05:02.00 | bonez46 | so , conceivably, I COULD, if everything worked as well as Obama's new stimulus plan is supposed to work, .. image it, install to new drive.. and with a tweak or two boot it up.. on the new drive.. |
| 05:02.05 | bonez46 | something like that? |
| 05:03.46 | RyanE | I'd DD it from one drive to a file (on a backup drive), then DD it onto the other drive. |
| 05:03.57 | RyanE | if it's got 'issues', I'd use dd_rescue or ddrescue, I don't remember which. |
| 05:19.53 | bonez46 | thank you |
| 05:41.53 | *** join/#utah Tene_ (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 06:26.11 | Sargun | Hey, tene_, you here, you might be able to comment on this |
| 06:33.29 | fozzmoo | http://www.opensourcetv.tv/video/16.html |
| 07:12.36 | Tene_ | Sargun: what am I commenting on? |
| 07:13.37 | Sargun | Tene_, what do you think about the idea of a format with a decoder built into it? |
| 07:14.14 | Tene_ | I'm not sure what you're asking. |
| 07:14.33 | Sargun | wait |
| 07:14.36 | Sargun | I'm not finished |
| 07:14.49 | Sargun | This would be for multimedia files |
| 07:15.11 | Sargun | So, a multimedia format that can continue to evolve, and utilize a set of primitives provided by the multimedia player |
| 07:15.22 | Sargun | and the multimedia player would just have to embed a VM |
| 07:16.11 | Sargun | Tene_, ok, now I'm done |
| 07:16.25 | Tene_ | hmm... sjansen lies in this presentation |
| 07:16.34 | Tene_ | it very much can help prevent exploits. |
| 07:17.14 | Tene_ | getsebool -a|grep allow_exec* |
| 07:17.17 | Tene_ | for example |
| 07:17.17 | Sargun | Tene_, not fozzmoo.. |
| 07:17.27 | Tene_ | Sargun: what? |
| 07:18.37 | Sargun | What do you think of a multimedia format whose decoder is built into the media file |
| 07:18.48 | Sargun | so it can continually evolve |
| 07:18.48 | Tene_ | sjansen also suggests that SELinux can grant additional privileges that you wouldn't have with selinux turned off |
| 07:18.51 | Tene_ | which is false |
| 07:19.31 | Tene_ | Sargun: I'm not sure that's a great idea... I'd have to see some pretty compelling ideas... |
| 07:20.25 | Sargun | Well, a prime candidate is the ogg theora format. it was designed badly, and they really can't change the standard without breaking backward compatibility. |
| 07:21.37 | Sargun | Tene_, processing power increases, methods change, so on, and so forth |
| 07:21.50 | Sargun | new possibilities emerge through research. |
| 07:21.59 | Tene_ | I don't really know enough about multimedia encoding to know if this sounds like a good idea or not |
| 07:47.58 | Supaplex | hacking the ATM for fun and profit eh? http://blog.threatexpert.com/2009/03/effect-of-credit-crunch-on-backdoors.html |
| 09:35.20 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 09:47.25 | *** join/#utah kevinbenko (n=kvirc@65-100-246-13.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 11:29.32 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 12:12.58 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 12:33.30 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:33.30 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 13:36.14 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-d6a931398b61785e) |
| 13:36.14 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 13:51.55 | *** join/#utah utahcon (n=utahcon@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 13:56.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@76.113.97.1) |
| 13:56.11 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 14:00.49 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 14:01.41 | elg | -chat |
| 14:01.42 | brac | Jayce^ offers to sell bags of tortillas to go online. |
| 14:23.02 | *** join/#utah _brent_ (n=_brent_@jive.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 14:24.32 | elg | http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/fixing-unix-linux-filenames.html |
| 14:24.34 | brac | [Fixing Unix/Linux/POSIX Filenames] |
| 14:35.09 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com) |
| 14:35.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:56.32 | Sargun_Screen | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:57.12 | *** join/#utah markl__ (n=mark@tpsit.com) |
| 14:58.24 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (i=timr@2002:ad75:e858:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 14:58.24 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 14:58.29 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:00.29 | *** join/#utah pashdown (i=pashdown@sine.xmission.com) |
| 15:05.59 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@208.110.152.42) |
| 15:08.32 | mecworks | Power's out at mecworks so no SLLUG server |
| 15:11.59 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@pleasedieinafire.net) |
| 15:12.00 | brac | posts Tene's IP and root password on alt.2600 |
| 15:12.15 | *** part/#utah flyfisher65 (n=flyfishe@70.102.172.126) |
| 15:13.00 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:16.39 | Jayce^ | ~lart mecworks power |
| 15:16.39 | ibot | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, mecworks power, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 15:38.09 | *** join/#utah Tene_ (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 15:46.01 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch_@137.65.120.28) |
| 15:50.37 | *** join/#utah supernovia (n=Velda@209.90.93.110) |
| 15:59.20 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225) |
| 16:09.56 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 16:11.34 | *** join/#utah sinuhe` (n=user@97-117-61-198.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:45.12 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 17:14.23 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:16.00 | *** join/#utah kevinbenko (n=kvirc@63-230-10-222.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 17:19.24 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 17:28.44 | *** join/#utah markl___ (n=mark@tpsit.com) |
| 17:38.25 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 17:55.28 | elg | -chat git |
| 17:55.29 | brac | git did |
| 17:55.33 | elg | -chat git is |
| 17:55.33 | brac | git is an Awesome site, Jayce^ |
| 17:55.40 | elg | git isn't a site brac |
| 17:55.42 | elg | -chat git is |
| 17:55.43 | brac | git is still around |
| 17:55.49 | elg | -chat vontrapp is mortified |
| 17:55.50 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 17:55.54 | elg | vontrapp is mortified |
| 17:55.57 | elg | -chat vontrapp is |
| 17:55.59 | brac | vontrapp is mortified |
| 17:56.21 | elg | wolverine is mortified when he sees a metal detector |
| 17:56.24 | elg | -chat vontrapp is |
| 17:56.24 | brac | vontrapp is mortified when he is married. |
| 17:57.14 | *** part/#utah _brent_ (n=_brent_@jive.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 18:01.01 | jshipley | -chat wolverine is |
| 18:01.01 | brac | wolverine is mortified |
| 18:01.11 | jshipley | -chat wolverine is |
| 18:01.11 | brac | wolverine is mortified |
| 18:01.20 | jshipley | -chat elg is |
| 18:01.20 | brac | elg is waiting for it anymore, so i'm just bored. :) |
| 18:01.33 | elg | wait for it |
| 18:16.50 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-97-1.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 18:16.50 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 18:35.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp37.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:35.36 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 18:43.05 | *** join/#utah _brent_ (n=_brent_@jive.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 18:43.39 | _brent_ | does anybody know if you can get vim to show you what filetype mode it's currently in? |
| 18:43.59 | _brent_ | the query version of :set ft=foo |
| 18:46.49 | goozbach | :set ft |
| 18:47.10 | _brent_ | got it, thx |
| 18:48.28 | _brent_ | btw, how did you learn that? |
| 18:49.39 | _brent_ | goozbach: did you just miss the end of a command one day and see the output or is that documented somewhere? |
| 18:50.01 | _brent_ | (trying to improve my googling) |
| 18:51.25 | goozbach | _brent_: I don't recall |
| 18:51.38 | _brent_ | goozbach: k, thanks for your help |
| 18:51.43 | goozbach | it makes logical sense to me however |
| 18:52.00 | goozbach | :set foo=sdkfja <-- changing a value |
| 18:52.12 | goozbach | :set foo <-- reading a value |
| 18:53.41 | _brent_ | except that you have things like set: wrap and set: nowrap |
| 18:54.02 | _brent_ | although it doesn't seem too weird to query like that |
| 18:54.35 | _brent_ | seems to match the pattern of [command], shift-[command], ctrl-[command] |
| 18:58.22 | harleypig | How can I get rsync to use ssh in a cron job? I've got a script that runs fine, except that it asks for a password. |
| 18:58.38 | _brent_ | harleypig: ssh keys |
| 18:58.46 | Tene | export RSYNC_RSH=ssh |
| 18:59.16 | Tene | or --rsh=ssh |
| 18:59.25 | harleypig | Tene: It works fine with the ssh option, but it asks for a password. I need it to be cronable. |
| 18:59.38 | _brent_ | ssh keys |
| 18:59.42 | harleypig | _brent_: I'm not sure I can do keys |
| 18:59.48 | Tene | why no keys? |
| 19:00.07 | harleypig | I mean, I know how ... I'm not the sysadmin |
| 19:00.19 | _brent_ | the only other options that i know of is the expect program, but then you'll have to store your password in plain text |
| 19:00.23 | Tene | you only need access to the account to set up keys, not root access |
| 19:00.26 | harleypig | So, basically, there is no way to pass the password on the commandline. |
| 19:00.37 | Tene | That's right. |
| 19:00.45 | harleypig | ok, then ssh keys it is. |
| 19:02.16 | goozbach | harleypig: look at ssh-copy-id |
| 19:02.18 | unum | it's important to know that that leaves you vulnerable in that if someone has root on one box, they can now connect to the other as you |
| 19:02.31 | goozbach | ssh-copy-id -i ./ssh/key.dsa user@host |
| 19:02.55 | goozbach | enter your password once, it automaticly adds your key to authorized_keys on the remote server |
| 19:03.33 | harleypig | goozbach: yeah, redbeard2 was just telling me about that |
| 19:03.59 | _brent_ | if you have access to the ssh settings on the other side, you can restrict what the ssh user can do, too |
| 19:04.00 | goozbach | rsync -avz -e "ssh -i /my/unlocked/priv.key" server1:/some/path /local/path |
| 19:04.34 | goozbach | that way you can specify a key |
| 19:04.40 | goozbach | which doesn't have to be the same key |
| 19:06.50 | _brent_ | hmmm, apparently you can limit what the remote user is allowed to do in the authorized_keys file itself: |
| 19:06.50 | _brent_ | http://troy.jdmz.net/rsync/index.html |
| 19:07.36 | *** join/#utah coldblue012 (n=adam@d192-24-62-34.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 19:14.15 | unum | I had no idea. that's very nice to know |
| 19:23.25 | unum | in case any of you know someone interested. the salt lake city library offers free classes on open office |
| 19:42.51 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 19:45.54 | Jayce^ | ooh, nice http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/wherethewildthingsare/ |
| 19:51.09 | unum | sometimes i feel like a big nerd, then I hang out in here..... |
| 20:11.06 | elg | that comes out on my son's birthday |
| 20:11.13 | elg | that'll be a no brainer |
| 20:12.08 | Sargun | elg, how old will he be |
| 20:12.14 | elg | 43 |
| 20:12.23 | Sargun | man, you must be old. |
| 20:12.58 | elg | don't you know it |
| 20:33.41 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:25.28 | *** join/#utah coldblue012 (n=adam@d192-24-62-34.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 21:43.46 | *** part/#utah _brent_ (n=_brent_@jive.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 22:10.08 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (i=timr@2002:ad75:e858:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 22:10.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.21 | TimRiker | is looking for a registrar as a godaddy alternative. suggestions? |
| 22:17.28 | TimRiker | reliable, inexpensive, web interface for things. free secondary dns would be a nice plus. not clueless about ipv6 would be another plus. |
| 22:18.07 | Sargun | uh |
| 22:18.39 | elg | TimRiker: xmission maybe? |
| 22:18.54 | elg | that's who i use |
| 22:19.03 | Sargun | depressingly, NetSol. |
| 22:19.07 | elg | for my whopping 3 domains |
| 22:21.52 | Sargun | TimRiker, Network solutions is a bit expensive, but they're worth the brand name sometimes |
| 22:22.27 | TimRiker | ugh. going back to network solutions sounds like a big step down, even from godaddy. |
| 22:23.08 | Sargun | why? |
| 22:23.17 | TimRiker | every time I've had to deal with network solutions I felt like they assumed I was a criminal until I proved otherwise. |
| 22:23.28 | Sargun | yes, which is nic e |
| 22:23.42 | Sargun | you could also call back and fake your identity, which was also nice |
| 22:23.43 | TimRiker | unless you actually want them to do something. |
| 22:24.46 | TimRiker | I used to luv the web interface at godaddy. so easy to get stuff done. it just keeps getting more an more sucky. |
| 22:25.02 | Jayce^ | it keeps going... and going... |
| 22:25.10 | TimRiker | I call to report javascript issues and I get "what version of internet explorer are you using?" |
| 22:25.22 | TimRiker | oh how the mighty have fallen. |
| 22:25.42 | elg | TimRiker: xmission has a web if, it's not web 2.0 |
| 22:25.48 | elg | which means you won't get nifty ajax effects |
| 22:25.56 | elg | but you won't get javascript errors to call in about |
| 22:26.01 | TimRiker | I used to be able to use "lynx" to make changes on godaddy's site. no chance of that ever working again. |
| 22:26.03 | elg | and you certainly won't get that from tech support :) |
| 22:26.17 | TimRiker | true that! |
| 23:22.15 | TimRiker | is xmission an actual registry? I'm not clear on that looking at the site. |
| 23:23.10 | TimRiker | xmission.com uses tucows, not that this proves anything one way or the other. |
| 23:33.56 | Sargun | tucows doesn't do v6 last time I checked. |
| 23:35.16 | fugue88 | You don't have to use your registrar as your DNS provider. |
| 23:58.05 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:58.05 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |