| 00:01.42 | bbeattie | Hi RyanE |
| 00:02.58 | RyanE | how goes it? |
| 00:04.35 | bbeattie | pretty good, sounds like C4 has another show coming up? |
| 00:04.59 | RyanE | We always have *some* show coming up. The *big* shows are only CEDIA and CES. |
| 00:05.10 | RyanE | The last one was some expo in Europe. |
| 00:05.18 | RyanE | but I don't go to those... :( |
| 00:05.26 | RyanE | Leavin' time. Later. |
| 00:06.12 | RyanE | has left the building... |
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| 00:53.24 | brac | tells Dr. Dre that Tene was talking smack |
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| 03:14.52 | Mark815 | 45 male slc here |
| 03:15.18 | Mark815 | looking for local lady for fun |
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| 03:17.04 | Tene | Hi, Mark. ;) |
| 03:17.11 | Mark815 | Hello |
| 03:17.55 | Mark815 | how is your night |
| 03:18.24 | Tene | ... I was going to screw with you, but I've lost motivation. This isn't a very good place for what you're looking for. |
| 03:18.33 | Tene | Nobody here is interested. I'm sorry. |
| 03:19.10 | Mark815 | so what kind of chat room is this |
| 03:19.41 | Tene | It's mostly for chat among members of the local open source community. |
| 03:20.03 | Mark815 | open source community? |
| 03:20.19 | Mark815 | whats that |
| 03:20.40 | Tene | Open source software. Linux is the traditional example. |
| 03:20.52 | Mark815 | oh i see |
| 03:20.54 | Mark815 | sorry |
| 03:20.58 | Mark815 | wrong room |
| 03:21.06 | Tene | A little bit. ;) |
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| 03:45.29 | *** topic/#utah by tensai -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | http://tinyurl.com/c6qycj | Your place for local lovin', penguin style |
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| 04:04.40 | levi | Ha ha, cruisin' IRC for the ladies. |
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| 04:09.23 | RyanE | is also lookin' for a local lady for fun. She's around here somewhere. I guess I'd have to leave my desk to go see where she's gone... :) |
| 04:10.09 | levi | I'm avoiding highly annoying homework. |
| 04:10.24 | RyanE | what kind of annoying? |
| 04:10.27 | levi | So, anyone have opinions on Dollhouse? |
| 04:10.38 | levi | Tedious math stuff. |
| 04:10.48 | RyanE | I thought it was OK. |
| 04:11.02 | levi | TWOP seems borked today. :( |
| 04:11.07 | harleypig | Is there a way I can popup a dialog box on a remote computer running X and display a warnin, like "It's time for bed ... I'm shutting down this computer in 5 minutes"? |
| 04:11.07 | RyanE | Aha. My last college class was Integral Calculus (Math 113) |
| 04:11.24 | elg | harleypig: xmessage |
| 04:11.31 | RyanE | harleypig: or you could do OSD stuff. |
| 04:11.33 | RyanE | that's fun. |
| 04:11.38 | elg | festival |
| 04:11.48 | levi | RyanE: This is numerical methods stuff. |
| 04:12.02 | RyanE | harleypig: osd_cat, if it's installed. |
| 04:12.22 | levi | I'm supposed to use bisection, Newton's method, and the secant method to find the largest possible root of an equation. |
| 04:12.42 | harleypig | elg: That seems to require I have x running myslef ... I need to run it on a running session on that box |
| 04:12.46 | harleypig | RyanE: I'll check it out |
| 04:12.47 | levi | Screw doing it by hand, I'm just going to have the program I already wrote print out the intermediate steps. |
| 04:12.50 | RyanE | levi: yeeeaaahhh... Good luck with that... :) |
| 04:13.19 | levi | I've had enough doing it by hand just by watching our teacher endlessly work the *@#% things out on the board in class. |
| 04:14.04 | RyanE | yeah, the math class I ended up taking independent study... The funny thing is, it was a prerequisite to the CS program, which I had finished. |
| 04:14.06 | Sargun | levi, we'll see what they do in a little while |
| 04:14.12 | Sargun | harleypig, more stuff for your kids? |
| 04:14.20 | harleypig | yeah :] |
| 04:14.27 | levi | Sargun: See what who do? |
| 04:14.44 | Sargun | levi, dollhouse |
| 04:14.55 | harleypig | My oldest likes to push the envelope, but I don't want to aggravate the situation by shutting down his system without warning him. |
| 04:15.27 | levi | Sweet, I want a transparent OLED display as a HUD for my car. |
| 04:15.41 | RyanE | levi: TWOP hasn't been the same since The Amazing Race stopped being recapped by Linda Holmes. |
| 04:15.50 | RyanE | (for me) |
| 04:15.56 | harleypig | levi: I want them for contacts ... |
| 04:16.04 | levi | RyanE: It's really not the same tonight, since it seems to have serious db issues. |
| 04:16.09 | RyanE | ouch |
| 04:16.17 | RyanE | are they recapping dollhouse? |
| 04:16.25 | levi | harleypig: Well, I think you may have to wait a little bit longer than I will. |
| 04:16.44 | levi | RyanE: There was supposed to be some sort of thing, but I couldn't pull it up. |
| 04:17.01 | levi | I don't really understand the difference between recaps, weecaps, and the other things. |
| 04:17.02 | harleypig | levi: :} probably |
| 04:17.23 | levi | So, I had a really bizarre dream last night. |
| 04:17.43 | harleypig | I tried sudo su - oldestson and then DISPLAY=:0.0 xmessage ... and it seemed to work. |
| 04:17.46 | harleypig | We'll see. |
| 04:18.07 | RyanE | levi: weecaps are a single page, summary. recaps are 10-20 pages, funnier. |
| 04:18.09 | RyanE | typically. |
| 04:18.18 | RyanE | http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:ch-LPaAf6AMJ:www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/dollhouse/ghost.php+http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/dollhouse/ghost.php&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a |
| 04:18.29 | RyanE | google has a cache of the weecap of Dollhouse there... |
| 04:18.33 | levi | I went to a temple, but they had me fill out all sorts of crazy paperwork at the front desk. I never got through it. They were also telling me that you could do the temple stuff at home now with a free Nintendo DS version of it. |
| 04:19.10 | RyanE | levi: heh. |
| 04:19.38 | RyanE | now, if it had been an *iPhone app*, that would be more believeable... :) |
| 04:20.21 | levi | Yeah. I don't know where my brain came up with Nintendo DS. I think I've only played with one once. |
| 04:20.25 | Sargun | harleypig, buy a robot with chain saws, and darts |
| 04:20.33 | Sargun | and build an autotargeting system |
| 04:21.00 | harleypig | Sargun: for the oldest, I'm tempted. |
| 04:21.18 | levi | So, I lost most of today to unplanned babysitting. |
| 04:21.25 | jessie | that sucks. |
| 04:21.36 | Sargun | levi, you should just hire a baby sitter |
| 04:21.38 | levi | My brother-in-law recently lost his wife, and he has two kids. |
| 04:22.07 | Sargun | ah, that's quite problematic |
| 04:22.57 | levi | The younger boy has some degree of autism (and also has a transplanted heart) and the older girl is mostly pretty good, but has some issues dealing with her emotions. |
| 04:23.11 | RyanE | that's a handful, even with 2 parents. |
| 04:25.16 | Sargun | ah, the younger boy could be quite problematic I think. |
| 04:25.32 | levi | Anyway, my jr high-age niece usually watches them at his house, but while she was there for the weekend, she asked if she could hang out with a friend that lives near his house. Later, they asked to go to a movie, but she didn't get back until 3 am. |
| 04:25.39 | Sargun | all sorts of health troubles, and getting sick is bad. |
| 04:25.48 | Sargun | levi, you said that already. |
| 04:25.51 | levi | So, she got sent straight home, and he was out a babysitter. |
| 04:26.02 | levi | Sargun: Yeah, half a day ago. |
| 04:26.17 | Sargun | levi, I don't see how baby sitting is a reward of sorts |
| 04:26.22 | levi | Sargun: Generally, if I say something here, you can assume I'm not talking to you unless I direct it at you. |
| 04:27.11 | levi | It's not a reward, it's a responsibility. |
| 04:27.33 | Sargun | but from the looks of it, staying out until 3 am gets you out of baby sitting |
| 04:28.05 | levi | It's a responsibility that gave her a lot of freedom and some spending cash. |
| 04:29.13 | Sargun | hm |
| 04:30.09 | Sargun | Well, sucks for her |
| 04:30.21 | levi | Screw her, she ruined my vacation day. |
| 04:30.30 | Sargun | at least she had a fun night at the movies I presume... and whoever went with her had a fun time. |
| 04:31.02 | Sargun | levi, She's young, let her have fun, you're nearly senile (kidding), it doesn't matter. |
| 04:31.32 | Sargun | If I was in your place I would probably be equally mad to be honest. |
| 04:32.21 | Sargun | In a few years she'll be off to college, and then she'll be getting back at 3 AM every day, and you guys wont be able to control a thing. |
| 04:33.02 | levi | You're such a teenager, Sargun. |
| 04:33.23 | levi | Control is not the issue. |
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| 04:41.50 | levi | I can't wait until this economic fuss is over and the people calling for the disbandment of the Fed fade back into the woodwork. |
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| 05:18.00 | elg | harleypig: the key is setting the DISPLAY variable |
| 05:18.10 | elg | DISPLAY=:0 xmessage 'go to bed' |
| 05:21.40 | levi | Something I learned today: Magenta has no corresponding wavelength of light. |
| 05:22.01 | levi | I.e., there is no such thing as 'Magenta' light. |
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| 05:31.03 | rsimpkins | Hey vim experts. I need to repeadedly wrap blocks of text around a custom tag. What do I do? so '50 lines' becomes '<tag>50 lines</tag>' |
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| 05:33.39 | harleypig | rsimpkins: one time shot-- :<range>s/50 lines/<tag>&<\/tag>/g |
| 05:42.52 | rsimpkins | harleypig: 50 lines is 50 lines of other stuff. So a visual block or selection would be awesome. |
| 05:43.12 | rsimpkins | Every time I try it, it ends up tagging each individual line. |
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| 05:52.23 | elg | rsimpkins: if i understand right, you can use visual block mode to do at least the leading tags |
| 05:52.37 | elg | but sed or awk seems to be the right tool (perhaps as a vim filter) |
| 05:53.47 | elg | :<range>!awk '{print "<tag>" $0 "</tag>"}' |
| 05:53.51 | elg | for example |
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| 07:46.54 | Tene | rsimpkins: I'd use: |
| 07:47.33 | Tene | qaI<tag>ESC50jA</tag>ESCq |
| 07:47.46 | Tene | then just use @a to do it |
| 07:48.14 | levi | Tene knows vim-fu. |
| 07:48.29 | Tene | vim macros are great |
| 07:49.05 | Tene | The other thing they're nice for is when you need to repeat some complicated action |
| 07:49.25 | levi | emacs has keyboard macros too, which are very useful if you can remember how to use them. |
| 07:49.45 | Tene | qaI<p>ESCA</p>ESCjq50@a |
| 07:56.11 | Tene | sleeps |
| 08:05.26 | levi | Huh, the Newton's Apple theme music was from a Kraftwerk song. |
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| 16:08.02 | manithree | anybody know if this http://www.redhat.com/promo/svvp/ means Windows will run paravirtualized? |
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| 17:11.57 | unum | upgrades to lenny |
| 17:13.30 | levi | Good morning. |
| 17:13.35 | JoshH | you running stable on your workstation unum? |
| 17:14.06 | unum | JoshH: no a server |
| 17:14.10 | unum | actualy a server at linode |
| 17:14.16 | JoshH | ah, ok |
| 17:14.37 | JoshH | my personal servers have been lenny for a few weeks now, since i recently upgraded with fresh installs |
| 17:14.53 | JoshH | well, i did dist-upgrade one |
| 17:14.57 | JoshH | went very well |
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| 17:27.41 | levi | I just always run unstable on my debian boxes. |
| 17:29.55 | eightyeight | unum: i'll be doing a rebuild to lenny tonight |
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| 17:31.00 | eightyeight | levi: yeah. for workstations, testing or unstable. for production servers, stable, just for the fast security patches |
| 17:31.56 | JoshH | i used to be that way |
| 17:32.02 | JoshH | now i switched to ubuntu on desktops |
| 17:32.19 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 17:33.13 | eightyeight | that's actually how i'm running my network at home. debian for all the servers. ubuntu or mac os x for all the desktops |
| 17:33.46 | levi | Well, I only have one Debian box, really. |
| 17:34.07 | levi | Which predates Ubuntu. |
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| 17:35.28 | JoshH | i wanted to stick with debian on my new workstation, but at the time the etch installer coudln't detect and mount my sata dvd drive |
| 17:37.05 | JoshH | and i didn't want to mess around too much with other install methods, so just went with ubuntu |
| 17:37.44 | JoshH | the only thing i don't like about ubuntu is the idea that half my packages are considered unsupported |
| 17:37.44 | eightyeight | i've got one ubuntu server that's becoming lenny tonight, and a debian testing server. ubuntu desktop and laptop, mac os x desktop and laptop |
| 17:38.35 | eightyeight | well, they're as unsupported as 100% of the packages in debian |
| 17:38.42 | jshipley | I seem to remember that there is a way to create a new tmp directory, and have old files deleted automatically. How do I do this? |
| 17:39.10 | jshipley | I think that there was some sort of daemon that would watch a directory, but I can't seem to remember what it's called. |
| 17:39.17 | JoshH | debian officially supports all packages, and will provide security updates for anything in stable as fast as possible |
| 17:39.30 | JoshH | ubuntu has a relatively small list of what's supported |
| 17:39.34 | jshipley | ubuntu doesn't support their packages? |
| 17:39.44 | JoshH | not universe/multiverse packages |
| 17:39.58 | JoshH | and even in main, on LTS, only a certain number actually get 5 years of support |
| 17:40.40 | eightyeight | JoshH: canonical doesn't support universe and multiverse. motu still provides the security patches asap |
| 17:41.37 | JoshH | ya, in practice, it hasn't been much of an issue so far |
| 17:41.55 | JoshH | but i'd still feel better about security updates coming on a vanilla debian server |
| 17:42.08 | eightyeight | i'm just saying that the debian community supports all of it's packages just like the ubuntu community supports all of theirs |
| 17:42.23 | eightyeight | and 100% of the packages in both distros get security updates in a timely manner |
| 17:43.37 | eightyeight | the only difference being, ubuntu has a parent company that is willing to finacially support a small set, mainly main and restricted, where debian doesn't have a direct parent company (although 3rd party companies might) |
| 17:44.19 | JoshH | so you consider the motu's to be as reliable as debian developers, and the support quality to be about the same? |
| 17:44.34 | goozbach | jshipley: tmpwatch |
| 17:44.47 | eightyeight | no. i don't. i said nothing of the quality of support, or testing patches for that matter. :) |
| 17:45.24 | eightyeight | that's why i'm migrating my production server from ubuntu to debian |
| 17:45.43 | eightyeight | i just can't put my faith in ubuntu as a server... yet |
| 17:46.00 | JoshH | ubuntu server is very solid for the most part, it's just the nagging concerns i have about the support |
| 17:46.47 | JoshH | my company has almost completely migrated to ubuntu LTS, mostly because of the LTS support and how long sarge took to release, and it has been incredibly stable for us |
| 17:47.04 | eightyeight | look at packages as they migrate from sid to testing. they _must_ have less RC bugs filed against them then what's already in testing |
| 17:47.19 | eightyeight | ubuntu has no such criteria |
| 17:47.25 | JoshH | ya |
| 17:48.11 | JoshH | they basically just say "here you go, this is an ubuntu package" |
| 17:48.17 | eightyeight | yup |
| 17:49.09 | JoshH | but i do like the stable-esque upgrades on my desktop, instead of babysitting the rolling upgrades and resolving problems manually now and then |
| 17:49.15 | eightyeight | for a desktop/laptop, it works ok. you can take some of the rolls with the punches. i don't trust doing that on a server |
| 17:50.00 | eightyeight | yeah. running sid as a workstation is work. running testing, not so much |
| 17:50.27 | eightyeight | but, then you're outdated a bit, which sucks, and sometimes packages get pulled out from under your feet |
| 17:50.57 | eightyeight | thus, the reason ubuntu works well as a workstation |
| 17:51.26 | JoshH | even testing can eventually become a pita to keep up to date if you run it long enough, but sid is still worse |
| 17:52.00 | JoshH | ubuntu "works" very well as a server too, i just have the doubts about package/support quality in the back of my mind |
| 17:52.07 | JoshH | but so far it hasn't been an issue |
| 17:52.20 | eightyeight | agreed. i'ts been great for me |
| 17:52.31 | eightyeight | i'm just not convinced on quality, is all |
| 17:52.38 | eightyeight | even with the LTS releases |
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| 18:05.07 | fungus | eightyeight: so besides your "feeling" about quality, why would one choose Debian over Ubuntu? |
| 18:05.43 | JoshH | so you can make fun of the ubuntu noobs in #debian and feel superior |
| 18:05.50 | fungus | lol |
| 18:06.01 | fungus | Ok, that makes sense. |
| 18:06.30 | JoshH | ubuntu doesn't have the same epeen factor |
| 18:06.41 | fungus | I'm running Ubuntu everywhere, primarily due to official support VMware. |
| 18:09.11 | JoshH | people do tout the community/online support of ubuntu, but the ubuntu channel and forums are mostly full of useless garbage, ime |
| 18:09.25 | JoshH | but it is still easy to find good info from google |
| 18:09.39 | eightyeight | fungus: i'm not convinced on the quality of LTS releases, or the upgrade between them |
| 18:09.47 | eightyeight | where i am with debian stable |
| 18:10.10 | JoshH | i haven't had any issues using the ubuntu upgrade manager from dapper to hardy on several machines |
| 18:10.11 | fozzmoo | Okay git'ers... when I do a 'git push', I get an error about 'non-fastforward' |
| 18:10.12 | eightyeight | i've never had anything burn me yet, bit i don't want anything to in the future, and i feel safer with debian stable than ubuntu lts |
| 18:10.14 | fozzmoo | What is that about? |
| 18:10.30 | fozzmoo | If I do a 'git push -f', it pushes. |
| 18:10.50 | Tene | fozzmoo: you're pushing something to a branch that points to a commit that isn't an ancestor of the commit you're pushing |
| 18:10.55 | Tene | ... lemme make a diagram |
| 18:11.20 | fungus | Trying to contact VMware for support for a VMware issue when they find out you are running an "unsupported" OS, totally sucks. |
| 18:11.51 | eightyeight | well, at work, everything is rhel, hpux, solaris or win2k3 |
| 18:12.02 | fungus | Ubuntu gives me the benefits of Debian, which the support of RHEL |
| 18:12.12 | eightyeight | i understand the issue with debian in the "enterprise" though |
| 18:12.30 | eightyeight | and i would _love_ to see ubuntu take the server market in the enterprise |
| 18:12.48 | fungus | And your "feeling" isn't enough to convince me. I just haven't had any issues like that. |
| 18:15.30 | eightyeight | i didn't know i was trying to convince you. :) |
| 18:16.08 | eightyeight | ahh. "why would one choose Debian over Ubuntu" not "why would you". i read that wrong |
| 18:17.23 | eightyeight | in that case, debian supports 12 cpu archs. ubuntu, 2 |
| 18:19.50 | fungus | If I had any of the other architectures that would make great sense. |
| 18:22.13 | fungus | Though I do plan to install the new Debian today due to my obsession with trying every new version of most distros. |
| 18:23.19 | eightyeight | i'm mad canonical dropped sparc support. we have 3 sparc boxes that we have to run solaris 10 on, because red hat doesn't support sparc, and neither does novell |
| 18:23.58 | fungus | Bummer, that sucks. I have 1 Solaris box too. I *hate* it. |
| 18:24.15 | fungus | But I'm stuck with it because I *love* ZFS |
| 18:28.04 | unum | fungus: we are install solaris for ZFS |
| 18:28.10 | unum | so I'm glad to hear others do that |
| 18:28.59 | fungus | Once you get the GNU tools shoehorned in, it's pretty usable though. |
| 18:30.19 | eightyeight | fungus: freebsd 7.1 has read/write for zfs, no? |
| 18:30.41 | eightyeight | so you should be able to have zfs on x86 hardware |
| 18:31.18 | fungus | oh, you can run Solaris on x86. I got the Sun X4500 server. Love it. |
| 18:31.32 | eightyeight | true |
| 18:31.48 | fungus | But I can't use FreeBSD, our IBM Tivoli backup client won't run on FreeBSD, already tried. |
| 18:31.56 | fungus | :( |
| 18:32.08 | eightyeight | OT: when installing a paravirtualized guest in xen, can't xen know that i want to use my cdrom for the install location? |
| 18:35.05 | high_roller | eightyeight: can't use a cdrom for installing paravirtualized guests |
| 18:35.08 | high_roller | only for full virt |
| 18:35.53 | eightyeight | yeah. that's what i'm noticing |
| 18:36.04 | eightyeight | so, how do you get a windows domu installed? |
| 18:36.22 | high_roller | windows has to be full virt, on virt capable hardware |
| 18:36.44 | eightyeight | ok. well, that answers that then |
| 18:37.20 | high_roller | that's because MS hasn't ported windows to Xen |
| 18:45.37 | Tene | the xen folks did a port, but they legally can't redistribute |
| 18:45.47 | Tene | at least, they claim they did a port. |
| 18:46.25 | Tene | I don't see any particular reason to doubt them, but it's difficult for them to provide evidence. :) |
| 18:47.44 | eightyeight | seems to me i recall that actually, from teaching class. i'm embarassed that i didn't remember it |
| 18:56.31 | sjansen | is sad he missed the Ubuntu/Debian support discussion |
| 18:56.51 | sjansen | My number one pet peeve with Ubuntu is that too few people actually understand the reality of Ubuntu support. |
| 18:57.51 | goozbach | sjansen: which is? |
| 18:58.57 | sjansen | That most Ubuntu support is best effort by volunteers. If you choose Ubuntu because of LTS, make sure you realize how few packages are part of LTS. |
| 19:03.21 | sjansen | I'm not a big Debian fan, but given a choice between Debian and Ubuntu in production, I would only use Ubuntu LTS if a third-party supported application required it. |
| 19:03.49 | sjansen | Of Ubuntu LTS is my needs were limited to the small set of officially supported packages. |
| 19:04.42 | sjansen | If I had to choose between Debian community supported packages and Ubuntu community supported packages, I trust Debian more. |
| 19:05.28 | sjansen | Although the behavior and untouchablity of some DDs freaks me out. |
| 19:22.55 | sjansen | "I personally would like to just lock the browser teams from Microsoft, Mozilla, Opera, and Apple in a room and not let them out until theyâve defined something that works and theyâve all agreed to implement soonest. I might even supply food and water." -- Eric Meyer |
| 19:23.25 | *** join/#utah jessie (n=Jessie@205.118.97.57) |
| 19:24.48 | Tene | Heh. |
| 19:24.50 | Tene | Hi jessie |
| 19:25.01 | jessie | Heowdy |
| 19:25.19 | *** join/#utah jessie (n=Jessie@205.118.97.57) |
| 19:25.54 | sjansen | Everyone be very, very quiet. We don't want to spook jessie. |
| 19:26.16 | jessie | llol. it's just when i talk. then it kicks me. stupid firewall |
| 19:26.35 | *** join/#utah jessie (n=Jessie@205.118.97.57) |
| 19:30.16 | goozbach | jessie: don't talk too loud then |
| 19:31.39 | *** join/#utah jessiem (n=root@34.244.sfcn.org) |
| 19:31.41 | jessiem | there |
| 19:31.45 | jessiem | that is a bit better |
| 19:32.56 | jessie | much better |
| 19:39.24 | sjansen | jessie: Uhmm... Are you really logging into IRC from your root account? |
| 19:41.40 | fungus | ~h4x0r jessie |
| 19:41.41 | ibot | ACTION comandeers jessie to order a case of popcorn |
| 19:42.38 | jessie | exit |
| 19:43.31 | *** join/#utah jessie (n=jessie@34.244.sfcn.org) |
| 19:43.43 | jessie | good point guys. lol. forgot i was logged into my computer as root. do'h |
| 19:43.59 | sjansen | ~educate jessie |
| 19:44.00 | ibot | ACTION teaches jessie the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 19:44.24 | jessie | lol. i know what i'm doing. just forgetful sometimes. |
| 19:45.03 | elg | hint: you're still root |
| 19:45.53 | jessie | no, i'm not.... |
| 19:48.25 | eightyeight | sjansen: given debian or ubuntu in production, i too would choose ubuntu. given debian or ubuntu at home, i prefer debian |
| 19:49.24 | sjansen | Uhm... I think I said the opposite. Debian in production, unless Ubuntu met very specific requirements. |
| 19:49.46 | eightyeight | 12:03 < sjansen> I'm not a big Debian fan, but given a choice between Debian and Ubuntu in production, I would only use Ubuntu LTS if a third-party supported application required it. |
| 19:49.56 | eightyeight | oh, i see |
| 19:50.46 | eightyeight | the problem is, ubuntu is certifying against hardware, and canonical is partnering with software vendors for support |
| 19:51.22 | eightyeight | so, getting a debian server supported in productin would more of a hassle than ubuntu, unless of course, you can support yourself |
| 19:53.35 | sjansen | Well, if you're using Debian or any Ubuntu packages beyond the officially supported subset, you're already responsible for supporting yourself. |
| 19:54.01 | *** join/#utah thrain][ (n=dpn@69.169.148.47.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 19:54.07 | Tene | But if you use ubuntu you get to *say* that you're on a distro with support. |
| 19:54.21 | eightyeight | of course. but, there isn't a set of packages on debian that match those from main and restricted |
| 19:54.25 | sjansen | The community might help, but ultimately the buck stops are your door. |
| 19:54.29 | Tene | Don't you like saying it? Support. Support. Support. Support. Support. Support. Support. Support? Support! |
| 19:55.33 | eightyeight | and again, the hardware certifications and vendor agreements. what was it oracle used to say? if you want to install and run our db, use red hat? |
| 19:56.00 | thrain][ | ... and valium |
| 19:56.03 | JoshH | remembers the terrible pain of installing oracle on debian a few years ago |
| 19:56.08 | sjansen | If you're shelling out for Oracle, you can afford RHEL. |
| 19:56.32 | eightyeight | can you afford the time to install it on freebsd or debian? |
| 19:56.54 | JoshH | don't even mention installing it on freebsd |
| 19:56.59 | sjansen | My experience is that most people using Debian or Ubuntu are using more free software than proprietary, and trying to keep cost down. |
| 19:59.54 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (i=timr@2002:ad75:492c:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 19:59.54 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:01.30 | sjansen | TimRiker: Flooding? I expected better from you. |
| 20:01.33 | sjansen | ~shun TimRiker |
| 20:01.34 | ibot | You are dead to me, TimRiker. |
| 20:01.55 | harleypig | Is there a good soup place in Sandy? |
| 20:02.15 | sjansen | cries silently, a single tear rolling down his cheek and into his beard |
| 20:02.23 | jsmith | harleypig: The soup at Sweet Tomatoes is usually pretty good |
| 20:02.52 | eightyeight | doesn't jason's deli serve soup? |
| 20:03.18 | harleypig | This weather is making me crave soup for some reason. |
| 20:03.59 | harleypig | Oh ... looks like Sweet Tomatoes is too far ... I'm at 12300 South. |
| 20:04.12 | harleypig | or 123000? |
| 20:05.00 | JoshH | went to big city soup and loved it |
| 20:05.03 | harleypig | eightyeight: I seem to remember jason's having a soup. |
| 20:05.32 | JoshH | the tomato gorgonzola there is awesome |
| 20:05.35 | harleypig | ah. my apologies. apparently I am in draper, not sandy. |
| 20:05.48 | JoshH | my sympathies |
| 20:05.58 | JoshH | (either way) |
| 20:06.43 | harleypig | heh |
| 20:07.02 | harleypig | it's a paycheck (a sizable chunk of which is eaten up by gas) |
| 20:07.24 | JoshH | where do you commute from? |
| 20:09.05 | harleypig | spanish fork |
| 20:09.15 | harleypig | oh .. zupas has a wild mushroom bisque |
| 20:09.26 | JoshH | good lord |
| 20:09.32 | goozbach | anyone have problems with the brightness graphic getting "stuck" on the screen when un-docking a laptop? |
| 20:09.36 | JoshH | that's quite a distance |
| 20:10.09 | harleypig | JoshH: that's not the half of it ... I drive a suburban. I'm going through a full tank of gas (45 gallons) every 8 days. |
| 20:10.12 | sjansen | goozbach: I don't think it's the undocking, just the power state change. |
| 20:10.28 | JoshH | wow |
| 20:10.46 | goozbach | sjansen: ok power state change |
| 20:10.49 | sjansen | pictures harleypig crammed into a fuel efficient mini |
| 20:10.57 | goozbach | you suffer from the problem as wall sjansen? |
| 20:11.01 | goozbach | er well? |
| 20:11.12 | sjansen | not consistently, but yet |
| 20:11.16 | sjansen | yes |
| 20:11.22 | goozbach | any idea what causes it? |
| 20:11.33 | goozbach | work arounds to get rid of it (short of kiilling X server) |
| 20:11.34 | goozbach | ? |
| 20:11.37 | sjansen | Crappy hardware and or drivers. |
| 20:11.53 | sjansen | Sorry, no. |
| 20:12.38 | JoshH | thinkpad? |
| 20:12.48 | goozbach | JoshH: yup |
| 20:13.07 | JoshH | ati or intel? |
| 20:13.29 | Sargun | I opted not to get a thinkpad this support cycle.. I upgraded to a Dell M4400. |
| 20:13.33 | goozbach | nvidia |
| 20:13.36 | JoshH | well, supposedly the current thinkpad intel sucks, unless you have a brand new distro |
| 20:13.53 | JoshH | which you probably do |
| 20:13.53 | goozbach | well I'm running Fedora 10 |
| 20:14.03 | goozbach | and it's up to date as of this morningin |
| 20:14.06 | goozbach | mroning |
| 20:14.06 | JoshH | well, i can't be of any use on this |
| 20:14.07 | harleypig | sjansen: I'm pushing for a tricycle (preferably a harley :> ) |
| 20:14.07 | goozbach | morning |
| 20:14.22 | jshipley | harleypig: is there an olive garden in Sandy? They have a pretty decent endless soup, salad, and breadstick lunch. |
| 20:14.42 | JoshH | of course, sandy has every chain known to man |
| 20:15.10 | harleypig | jshipley: nope, closest is sandy. |
| 20:16.05 | goozbach | wingers |
| 20:16.09 | harleypig | I'm going to zupas ... |
| 20:16.11 | goozbach | ummmmm wingers |
| 20:16.16 | goozbach | salavates |
| 20:16.16 | harleypig | crosses fingers in the hope it's good |
| 20:17.10 | JoshH | wingers has good chicken strips |
| 20:17.16 | JoshH | prefers strips over wings |
| 20:23.23 | Tene | I'm trying to find a good backup solution for a single box that provides a straightforward way to do a full restore. |
| 20:23.48 | Tene | Most of the things I've found so far have a bit too much overhead for backing up a single box. |
| 20:24.47 | sjansen | Linux box? |
| 20:25.03 | Tene | Yes. |
| 20:29.28 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@wsddevdude.weber.k12.ut.us) |
| 20:30.45 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@c-24-10-162-205.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:30.45 | brac | pokes Lone_Wanderer in the eye |
| 20:30.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I deserved that. |
| 20:33.15 | goozbach | Tene: single backup? |
| 20:33.29 | goozbach | if it's multiple backups I'd look at Zmanda |
| 20:33.36 | goozbach | zmanda may be too much |
| 20:33.38 | Tene | goozbach: "single backup"? |
| 20:33.58 | goozbach | amanda (the free version) may be worthwile |
| 20:34.12 | fungus | single backup = dump |
| 20:34.39 | goozbach | lvm snapshots + dump |
| 20:34.42 | fungus | 4-5 = dump |
| 20:34.45 | goozbach | I concur |
| 20:34.54 | Tene | Yes, the intent is to provide easy restore of the entire system in case of catastrophic hardware failure. |
| 20:34.57 | fungus | 6+ = find a managed system |
| 20:35.01 | Tene | pickaxe through the HD. |
| 20:35.34 | Tene | What's restore like for amanda? |
| 20:35.37 | fungus | Bacula for complex stuff |
| 20:37.09 | JoshH | backuppc |
| 20:39.44 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@office2.bluehost.com) |
| 20:39.44 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.40 | Tene | looks like backuppc is for backing up files and directories, not entire systems |
| 20:45.16 | goozbach | dd |
| 20:45.17 | goozbach | ? |
| 20:45.38 | Tene | Not easy to restore from. |
| 20:46.05 | fungus | http://pastebin.com/m5513b5ec |
| 20:46.12 | fungus | simple and easy |
| 20:47.02 | Tene | fungus: that's great, but requires a skilled operator to restore properly to rebuild the system. |
| 20:47.28 | fungus | skilled operator? |
| 20:47.36 | fungus | Who do you expect to do the restores? |
| 20:47.56 | Tene | I guess this client wants to be able to leave written instructions for a junior sysadmin or something. |
| 20:48.30 | fungus | That's easy enough with /sbin/restore |
| 20:48.41 | Tene | fungus: on a completely blank system? |
| 20:49.08 | Tene | "Okay, find some kind of livecd and boot to it, then do some partitioning, then ...' |
| 20:49.24 | Tene | create lvm volumes... |
| 20:49.27 | goozbach | ohh |
| 20:49.36 | goozbach | try cobbler + systemimager |
| 20:50.11 | harleypig | The Wild Mushroom Bisque is pretty good, but I stuck out like a fat sore thumb. :D |
| 20:50.14 | sjansen | snorts pop out his nose |
| 20:50.44 | fungus | Tene: The tools and instructions can be prepared easily, most of it can be automated anyway. |
| 20:50.56 | fungus | The only other alternative is imaging systems. |
| 20:50.59 | sjansen | goozbach: Tene is trying to find a solution that can be handled by someone who doesn't care enough to pay for the level of talent necessary to understand and maintain cobbler. |
| 20:51.22 | Tene | fungus: I guess if I built my own livecd with custom tools on it. |
| 20:51.30 | fungus | Exactly. |
| 20:52.06 | fungus | Well the tools are there, you just need your automation scripts. |
| 20:52.24 | fungus | Another idea is to have a cold spare. |
| 20:52.47 | fungus | rsync the data to a spare machine that's preconfigured |
| 20:56.54 | *** join/#utah markl__ (n=mark@173.10.24.5) |
| 21:02.19 | elg | -chat |
| 21:02.19 | brac | my dad's cat does the world will be $100 all on db_name to user; did not join the muc. not exactly how much it'd be? |
| 21:04.20 | *** join/#utah bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.32 | sjansen | -chat elg mumbled |
| 21:05.32 | brac | elg mumbled |
| 21:05.47 | elg | is that the sequel to atlas shrugged? |
| 21:10.43 | sjansen | Well, look who has a healthy self image. |
| 21:11.27 | elg | -chat look who |
| 21:11.27 | brac | look who has a windows app to do with bash. |
| 21:11.34 | jshipley | maybe they'll make it into a movie |
| 21:12.09 | jshipley | Then you could find 'Elg Mumbled' in the $1 DVD rack near the registers at Wal-Mart |
| 21:12.44 | jshipley | -chat then you |
| 21:12.45 | brac | then you can compile 32-bit binaries under 64-bit systems? |
| 21:13.00 | elg | brac: yes, if you read elg mumbled you can |
| 21:13.24 | elg | anyone cook rice in the microwave? |
| 21:25.27 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#utah thrain][ (n=dpn@69.169.148.47.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 21:31.26 | ^Migs^ | sure |
| 21:31.33 | ^Migs^ | usually, no |
| 21:40.03 | elg | so i find myself lacking one thing in git: reverting a working directory file. like git reset --hard foo, but git reset doesn't like to work at the file level. same with git checkout -f |
| 21:40.36 | elg | one can use git diff and pipe it into patch. it'd be nice to automate that |
| 21:41.29 | fungus | svn revert <filename> ;) |
| 21:41.45 | elg | right. every other system has it |
| 21:42.06 | elg | and i can foresee the git argument: "git works with the whole tree, not individual files" |
| 21:42.40 | elg | waa! sorry, but if you can manage git diff on an individual file you could certainly manage this too. of course it would be less speedy |
| 21:43.06 | elg | refrains from refraining to comment about how stupid "git reset --hard" is for such a common operation |
| 21:45.26 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@69-20-161-226.static.ida.net) |
| 21:50.41 | sjansen | elg: If I understand what you're saying, git checkout filename has always worked for me. |
| 21:51.33 | elg | excellent. thanks |
| 21:51.41 | elg | it never occurred to me to try it without -f |
| 21:52.43 | elg | and, git co . appears to do what hg revert did (at first glance) |
| 21:52.57 | elg | (where I have checkout aliased to co) |
| 22:02.46 | harleypig | I'm having a problem connecting to my local installation of mysql. |
| 22:03.04 | harleypig | If I connect using 'mysql -p' I'm able to connect just fine. |
| 22:03.21 | harleypig | If I connect using mysql -h builderdb -p' I get 'unable to connect' |
| 22:03.39 | harleypig | The user has permissions for 'harleypig'@'builderdb' |
| 22:03.55 | harleypig | Any pointers? |
| 22:04.45 | Tene | harleypig: check what the IP you're connecting *from* resolves to |
| 22:05.00 | sjansen | Error 42 : Segmentation Fault : Attempt to dereference invalid pointer |
| 22:05.06 | harleypig | ping builderdb resolves to 127.0.1.1, as expected. |
| 22:06.15 | JoshH | it probably does a dns lookup to find the host, rather than using your hosts file |
| 22:06.51 | JoshH | ping will use the hosts file, but tools like host and dig will not |
| 22:07.17 | JoshH | why not just use localhost if it's local |
| 22:08.04 | harleypig | I'm debugging a program that has the db hardcoded and I can't change it because changes committed will break live servers. |
| 22:08.44 | harleypig | I know that the hosts file will be used for this app because that's what they have on the live server. |
| 22:09.13 | synic | I hope I'm not pointing out the obvious, but bind-address is set correctly in my.cnf? |
| 22:09.24 | JoshH | can you update the user table on the local box? |
| 22:10.34 | Tene | harleypig: no, the issue is what the ip you're coming from resolves to |
| 22:10.51 | Tene | harleypig: you're coming from 127.0.0.1, so it probably looks that IP up and gets 'localhost' |
| 22:11.00 | Tene | so it's looking for 'whoever'@'localhost' |
| 22:11.46 | harleypig | Tene: that's what I thought at first, but if that was the case I'd be getting something denied for 'whoever'@'localhost' ... and the user does have permissions for localhost. |
| 22:12.04 | harleypig | The error message is Can't connect to MySQL server on 'builderdb' |
| 22:12.14 | harleypig | So it's not even connecting to the db to be denied. |
| 22:12.26 | Tene | harleypig: what if you use mysql -h localhost -p ... |
| 22:12.26 | Tene | ? |
| 22:12.32 | Tene | same thing? |
| 22:12.34 | harleypig | JoshH: I can. |
| 22:12.57 | harleypig | Tene: no, I'm able to connect with the same user at localhost ... oh ... not using -h ... trying that. |
| 22:13.21 | Tene | you probably just have entries for 'username', not for 'username'@'localhost' |
| 22:13.40 | sjansen | nice -n -10 su - -c "strace tcpdump -i lo" |
| 22:13.55 | sjansen | That should clear things up nicely. |
| 22:13.56 | Tene | sjansen: why are you nicing su? |
| 22:14.01 | elg | haha |
| 22:14.58 | harleypig | Tene: nope, I have entries for 'perl_db'@'localhost' and 'perl_db'@'builderdb' |
| 22:15.15 | harleypig | and mysql -h localhost -u perl_db -p works fine. |
| 22:15.24 | synic | bind-address... |
| 22:15.26 | Tene | But it fails with -h builderb |
| 22:15.33 | harleypig | synic: checking |
| 22:15.47 | Tene | and 'host builderb' gives 127.0.0.1 ? |
| 22:16.10 | harleypig | synic: bind-address = 127.0.0.1 |
| 22:16.23 | harleypig | ohhhhh |
| 22:16.40 | harleypig | hosts has 127.0.1.1 ... *sigh* |
| 22:16.49 | Tene | Nice. |
| 22:18.09 | harleypig | And there we are. Thanks for the help. I hate id10t errors. |
| 22:24.27 | Tene | np |
| 22:25.06 | *** part/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 22:25.36 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 22:25.36 | ibot | executes killall -TERM sjansen |
| 22:26.56 | sjansen | ~bzfrag emcnabb |
| 22:26.56 | ibot | ACTION kills emcnabb with a shot from his BZTank |
| 22:27.22 | emcnabb | sjansen, get back to work |
| 22:28.27 | sjansen | emcnabb: Don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. |
| 22:28.43 | JoshH | pics? |
| 22:28.45 | eightyeight | so, i guess i don't understand rhn |
| 22:28.55 | Sargun | eightyeight, what's not to understand? |
| 22:29.06 | eightyeight | i've setup a satellite server, and subscribed to the necessary channels we need |
| 22:29.28 | emcnabb | sjansen, you think elg is a babe? |
| 22:29.43 | eightyeight | /var/satellite/redhat/ contains a 1/ and NULL/ dirs. under NULL/, there are all the rpms for all the versions in separate directories |
| 22:30.09 | eightyeight | do i run createrepo on that, and create a repo for my satellite clients? there's nearly 35,000 packages! |
| 22:31.02 | eightyeight | i see reposync, but that seems to duplicate rpms, and running 'yum install xen kernel-xen virt-manager', yum complains it can't find xen or virt-manager, even after a 'yum clean all' |
| 22:31.05 | sjansen | elg is a total babe. Did you see the pics when he completely shaved his head? |
| 22:31.25 | eightyeight | i know that yum has an RHN plugin, but it isn't producing the results i'd hoped for |
| 22:33.24 | eightyeight | rhn is so confusing |
| 22:35.15 | RyanE | RedHat Network? Right-Hand Notation? Real Hot Nookie? |
| 22:35.18 | Tene | http://www.recovery.gov/ |
| 22:36.02 | sjansen | Red Hat Nookie? |
| 22:36.17 | eightyeight | red<space>hat network |
| 22:36.17 | JoshH | red head nookie |
| 22:36.49 | levi | Tene: Ahh, I guess he signed it. |
| 22:36.54 | *** join/#utah gerberb (n=gerberb@opensuse/member/Gerberb) |
| 22:37.06 | Jayce^ | big surprise |
| 22:37.33 | levi | Well, I am of course not surprised, I just didn't know when it was going to happen. |
| 22:41.57 | sjansen | http://www.federalhousingtaxcredit.com/ <-- That didn't take long. |
| 22:42.39 | Jayce^ | sjansen: saw a google ad for it last weekend even... (on the ad-enabled browser I keep around) |
| 22:43.12 | Jayce^ | technically it's the same credit, just removed some clauses |
| 22:43.21 | Sargun | "ad enabled" |
| 22:46.39 | sjansen | So reading details of the "$8000 tax credit" I'm discovering I'd actually be eligible for much less than that. |
| 22:48.06 | sjansen | I'm not sure if I sure be thankful my government is being more stingy with people that don't really need the money, or pissed. |
| 22:50.07 | JoshH | be both |
| 22:51.06 | RyanE | Yeah, those of us who already purchased homes, we just get to *pay* for it... |
| 22:51.37 | Jayce^ | serves us right... :) |
| 22:52.47 | levi | If you already own a home, hopefully an influx of new buyers will raise the value of your home, and thus your equity. |
| 22:52.50 | sjansen | Those of you that purchased homes helped put us in this mess by pushing prices up. |
| 22:53.14 | JoshH | jerks |
| 22:53.18 | sjansen | You could have been happy renting, but no, y'all had to got and ruin the economy. |
| 22:54.06 | Jayce^ | offers to sell his house (still at more than he paid for it) just to piss sjansen off more |
| 22:55.08 | sjansen | Jayce^: Don't you live on haunted former swamp land between a munitions factory and hog rendering plant? |
| 22:55.40 | RyanE | I purchased mine *long* before the prices went astronomical. Fortunately. |
| 22:55.42 | Jayce^ | on top of a ancient indian burial ground |
| 22:56.05 | RyanE | sjansen: yeah, but it's beautiful out there when the wind blows a certain way. :) |
| 22:56.37 | levi | I may visit Jayce^'s neighborhood when they finish the mountain bike park there. |
| 22:57.00 | *** join/#utah thrain][ (n=dpn@69.169.148.47.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 22:57.10 | JoshH | where is that? |
| 22:58.04 | levi | Other than that, I curse his development's existence for the traffic load it places on state route 89. Stupid poor Utah urban planning. |
| 22:58.30 | levi | I believe he lives in Eagle Mountain somewhere. |
| 22:58.43 | JoshH | i've been to eagle mountain once |
| 22:58.55 | JoshH | field trip in high school, to see the ruins of a pony express trail or something |
| 22:59.03 | JoshH | but it was before lots of people started moving there |
| 22:59.14 | JoshH | can't remember exactly what kind of trail it was |
| 22:59.19 | JoshH | maybe it was called the spanish trail or something |
| 22:59.32 | levi | I used to camp at Simpson's Springs, which is a cool Pony Express site. |
| 23:00.52 | JoshH | i can't believe i forgot what the trail was, since i am a fan of history |
| 23:01.06 | JoshH | maybe it was pony express |
| 23:02.20 | sjansen | Maybe it was part of the underground railroad. |
| 23:02.55 | sjansen | Or maybe is was little known extension of the silk road. |
| 23:03.13 | RyanE | or maybe the less successful 'turtle express'. |
| 23:03.35 | JoshH | all i remember is it was up on the side of the hill overlooking the town, and there wasn't much left of it |
| 23:07.46 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@208.53.57.89) |
| 23:14.52 | thrain][ | I'd bet it was the pony express trail, since it was near eagle mountain |
| 23:15.08 | Jayce^ | yeah, runs right through town.. |
| 23:16.15 | sjansen | And it's haunted. |
| 23:17.19 | thrain][ | well, that explains a things. |
| 23:18.49 | thrain][ | er... a few things |
| 23:32.49 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:37.20 | *** join/#utah bgerber (n=gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 23:39.46 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:55.15 | harleypig | argh ... isn't there a site that let's me navigate a pedigree chart of existing records? I'm curious to see if there are any pictures of all of my grand parents back to Brigham Young. |