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| 00:36.31 | brac | sporks Tene |
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| 01:21.45 | memphis | who's awake? |
| 01:22.32 | memphis | I am in the process of starting the UVLUG back up |
| 01:23.07 | memphis | and I need a few more students to get things going |
| 01:29.26 | *** part/#utah tonedevf (n=dave@post.tonedb.org) |
| 01:31.05 | Sargun | UVLug? |
| 01:35.23 | memphis | Utah Valley LUG, it would be on the UVU campus |
| 01:36.23 | memphis | so the better question/request is to know if any UVU students are in here |
| 02:16.54 | RyanE | I'm awake, but couldn't be further from being a UVU student... :) |
| 02:19.23 | RyanE | heh |
| 03:04.40 | levi | I'm a UVU student, but not for much longer! |
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| 04:19.36 | levi | Man, I swear I saw the mouse we've got running around the house. |
| 04:20.01 | levi | Cheeky little bastard. |
| 04:20.55 | levi | He ran up next to our bookcase, which is *right* next to the wall. He looked way too big to fit behind it, but either he did or he scurried off while I grabbed a box to trap him with. |
| 04:21.24 | levi | We've got all sorts of traps out, but he knows better than to go for them. |
| 04:26.15 | Sargun | levi, 1) Acquire flamethrower |
| 04:26.48 | Sargun | 2) Start flaming. |
| 04:56.38 | elg | he already subscribes to plug |
| 04:56.45 | elg | if he can just get the mouse to read it... |
| 04:57.11 | elg | i think memphis means the UVULUG |
| 04:57.17 | elg | like that thing in the back of your throat |
| 05:29.46 | elg | should i learn awk? |
| 05:30.01 | tensai | awk--; perl++ |
| 05:33.38 | elg | i think i'll post it to plug. it will be entertaining to either see two long threads in a week and no off-topic runaway threads, or to spawn an off-topic runaway thread... |
| 05:33.53 | elg | or maybe i'll just get 3 replies of "just use perl" and no bickering |
| 05:33.59 | Sargun | while (1) { perl--; awk--; python++;} |
| 05:34.16 | elg | of course, there will be one or two people touting their favorite language instead of awk or perl |
| 05:34.23 | elg | python, ruby, java |
| 05:34.26 | elg | see, case in point |
| 05:48.00 | RyanE | naw, write a custom app and embed Lua into it. :) |
| 05:49.47 | Sargun | oh god |
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| 15:13.36 | elg | ~hate IE |
| 15:13.37 | ibot | Hey elg, ,,|, |
| 15:13.54 | elg | ~lart herself |
| 15:13.54 | ibot | chops herself in half with a free AOL CD |
| 15:14.22 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Last week, scientists explaced sjansen |
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| 15:18.34 | brac | covers Tene's toilet paper with lemon-pepper |
| 15:19.25 | *** join/#utah memphis (n=memphis@161.28.251.109) |
| 15:19.33 | memphis | hello |
| 15:19.42 | elg | methinks you mean uvulug |
| 15:19.47 | elg | like that thing in the back of your throat |
| 15:19.56 | memphis | ummmm yeah...not really |
| 15:20.45 | memphis | any UVU students here? |
| 15:21.40 | memphis | anybody awake here? |
| 15:21.45 | utahcon | shh!! |
| 15:21.48 | utahcon | we're all sleeping. |
| 15:22.06 | memphis | ops sorry I will whisper |
| 15:24.23 | memphis | things are a little lively in here....who thinks Ubuntu is alright? |
| 15:24.51 | elg | mark shuttleworth |
| 15:25.09 | memphis | nah he just likes to spend on it |
| 15:25.41 | memphis | so if I am in Am. Fork where should I go for the Linux meetings, install parties etc? |
| 15:26.49 | jsmith | memphis: PLUG! |
| 15:27.09 | memphis | Okay when does the PLUG meet? |
| 15:27.18 | elg | 2nd wed |
| 15:27.26 | memphis | time? Place? |
| 15:27.38 | memphis | I think I had the site here a second ago |
| 15:27.57 | beelzebob | http://plug.org |
| 15:28.27 | memphis | cool got it, so the 11th |
| 15:28.33 | memphis | bring a laptop? |
| 15:33.15 | elg | you may |
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| 16:44.04 | elg | anyone know of a good, credible (i.e. not a blog), article on not using IE, that isn't from 2004? |
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| 16:47.33 | Sargun_Screen | IE is perfectly fine for 90% of people |
| 16:47.54 | Sargun_Screen | you really should e using it as Microsoft says it's an A+ browser |
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| 16:50.26 | tensai | has it been that long since cert issued it's advisory? how time flies. |
| 16:52.01 | tensai | elg: http://www.webdevout.net/ie-is-dangerous |
| 16:52.48 | elg | tensai: that's real nice |
| 16:52.51 | elg | and 2 minutes too late. :( |
| 16:52.58 | Sargun_Screen | Anyone know a good place to find information about bloom filters |
| 16:53.00 | elg | but i'll bookmark it. thanks |
| 16:53.20 | tensai | Sargun_Screen: algae blooms? |
| 16:53.40 | Sargun_Screen | You shouldn't use Safari as it may cause issues with certain high quality web technologies like ActiveX |
| 16:53.50 | Sargun_Screen | tensai: Bloom Filters? |
| 16:53.59 | Sargun_Screen | they're close. |
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| 17:08.05 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@199.243.241.222) |
| 17:08.54 | sjansen | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/09/1348255 |
| 17:08.57 | sjansen | http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/09/1311255 |
| 17:09.17 | sjansen | Did April Fool's Day come early this year? |
| 17:12.16 | jshipley | I wonder how long it will take for some dev to create a program that launches and hides other programs so that the OS only sees one app even though there are a dozen open. |
| 17:12.47 | smcquay | oh, that windows 7 limitation is such a farce |
| 17:13.13 | jshipley | More likely -- people will shun the SE, and anybody who can't afford more will just bittorrent it. |
| 17:13.48 | smcquay | tractors is so dumb! |
| 17:14.10 | smcquay | wait ... average consumers (according to the gospel of microsoft) is so dumb |
| 17:16.08 | sjansen | smcquay: Hardly. I think you were right the first time, it is a farce. Probably an echo chamber filled with lazy, lying reporters. |
| 17:16.31 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 17:16.46 | sjansen | Even if you're trying to be cynical, UAC is proof that MS doesn't think the average consumer is dumb. |
| 17:17.56 | sjansen | UAC is proof that MS thinks consumers are better prepared than Windows kernel programmers to make subjective security assessments requiring intimate knowledge of how Windows works. |
| 17:21.26 | tensai | ~lart outlook |
| 17:21.26 | ibot | does a little 'renice 20 -u outlook' |
| 17:21.30 | smcquay | oh, no, it's true .... |
| 17:22.28 | smcquay | http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/25/multiple-windows-7-versions-coming-say-it-aint-so/ |
| 17:22.30 | brac | [Multiple Windows 7 versions coming? Say it ain't so! - Engadget] |
| 17:23.18 | tensai | given their track record, they obviously will have multiple editions. why is this surprising? |
| 17:23.31 | tensai | annoying, yes. silly, possibly. but surprising? |
| 17:23.52 | smcquay | wait, sorry, wrong article ... there's another one where they specifically talk about the 3 concurrent apps |
| 17:24.21 | smcquay | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/ |
| 17:24.23 | brac | [Windows 7 SKUs announced: your worst nightmare has come to pass - Engadget] |
| 17:24.37 | smcquay | not quite sure what their sources are, though |
| 17:25.10 | smcquay | albeit, they clame to have "checked specifically with Microsoft on all six verisions" and later they state "Limited to 3 simultaneous applications" |
| 17:25.23 | jshipley | I think I'll stick with XP on my windows partitions |
| 17:26.21 | smcquay | jshipley: the rest of the world is behind you, i think (the 20% that aren't tractors) |
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| 17:37.03 | ^Migs^ | http://gawker.com/5149676/horrifying-banana-spider-orders-you-to-dennys |
| 17:44.40 | levi` | So, I picked up some of this at Good Earth on Saturday: http://www.gingerpeople.com/featured/ginger-delight.html |
| 17:44.44 | levi` | Haven't tried it out yet. |
| 17:46.40 | levi | I'm playing with the Windows 7 beta, and I'd definitely take it over XP on a home machine of recent vintage. |
| 17:46.59 | levi | As long as it wasn't the stupid Home Basic or whatever, which you can't even buy retail. |
| 17:52.40 | elg | receives yet another facebook invite |
| 17:53.16 | elg | will i regret it if i sign up? i wouldn't use it, per se, but maybe just being on it old friends from 2nd grade will find me, and that might be cool |
| 17:53.31 | elg | well, not really 2nd grade. maybe high school though |
| 17:54.09 | ^Migs^ | smcquay, that Windows 7 SKUs article is funny. |
| 17:54.15 | ^Migs^ | "YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE HAS COME TO PASS" |
| 17:54.58 | ^Migs^ | as if this is any different from their other OSs. |
| 17:55.11 | ^Migs^ | Windows XP has, like, 10 different versions |
| 17:55.42 | tensai | elg: I've been mulling that question myself |
| 17:55.55 | levi | elg: I haven't regretted it. |
| 17:56.10 | tensai | levi: did you see the ginger link I posted the other day? |
| 17:56.13 | levi | I don't really use it actively, but I check it ocasionally to see what people are up to. |
| 17:56.25 | levi | tensai: Yup. But it was easier to just buy this stuff for $2.50 or something. :) |
| 17:56.48 | levi | It's basically the same thing, just ginger and cane sugar. |
| 17:56.56 | tensai | but did you end up with ginger candy as a byproduct? |
| 17:57.19 | tensai | talk about some potent stuff. the kids were excited because it was "candy" but they quickly changed their minds |
| 17:57.21 | levi | No, but I could have bought that there as well. |
| 17:57.44 | levi | They've got bulk crystallized ginger in the bulk food section. |
| 17:57.53 | levi | Which is indeed yummy stuff. :) |
| 17:58.37 | tensai | I really like ginger syrup. when used in appropriate amounts it's a rather nice flavor. |
| 17:58.53 | levi | WTF, the Woz is going to be on Dancing With the Stars?! |
| 17:59.05 | elg | oh no |
| 18:00.10 | Sargun | levi, I know, it's it going to be awesome? |
| 18:00.37 | levi | My wife is an avid watcher, so I'll definitely see some of it. |
| 18:01.00 | levi | As far as those kinds of shows go, it's one of the more tasteful ones. |
| 18:01.36 | Sargun | Is it available on the internet for free; I don't subscribe to television broadcast services |
| 18:01.56 | levi | I pick it up in HD with my antenna for free. |
| 18:02.48 | levi | tensai: I still want to see if I can somehow create Blenheim-levels of heat in a homemade ginger ale. |
| 18:04.34 | jsmith | Hey, stupid question for the shell-scripting demi-gods in the channel... when I try to use either backticks or $(blah) in my crontab, it complains that it can't find the matching backtick or the ) |
| 18:06.57 | Sargun | Odd. |
| 18:07.07 | jsmith | No kidding |
| 18:07.46 | jsmith | What I'd like to do is something like: 10 1 * * * pg_dump -Ubackup -o drupal6 > /backup/pgsql.$(date +%F).backup.sql |
| 18:12.18 | jsmith | can't believe that sjansen or elg or goozbach doesn't have the answer immediately... |
| 18:12.58 | elg | do you need to escape it? |
| 18:13.13 | elg | i've never had that problem, but i'm not sure whether i've used backtics in a cron job or not |
| 18:13.20 | elg | you could always make a script and just call it... |
| 18:13.21 | goozbach | is this the system wide cronjob? |
| 18:13.28 | goozbach | crontab? |
| 18:13.30 | goozbach | or cron.d? |
| 18:13.35 | goozbach | or crontab -e |
| 18:13.36 | goozbach | ? |
| 18:18.21 | jsmith | crontab -e |
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| 18:19.13 | goozbach | ok then the syntax is correct |
| 18:19.24 | goozbach | tried to put your filename in double quotes? |
| 18:19.35 | goozbach | 10 1 * * * pg_dump -Ubackup -o drupal6 > " /backup/pgsql.$(date |
| 18:19.39 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:19.45 | goozbach | let's try that again: |
| 18:20.00 | goozbach | 10 1 * * * pg_dump -Ubackup -o drupal6 > "/backup/pgsql.$(date +%F).backup.sql" |
| 18:20.05 | jsmith | Trying that now |
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| 18:21.39 | ^Migs^ | if Apple started offering Mac OSX for the PC, would you buy it? |
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| 18:23.43 | smcquay | ^Migs^: but i have linux ... |
| 18:24.02 | ^Migs^ | that was not the question |
| 18:24.05 | smcquay | i have to manually dumb down the aqua to get it as snappy as it should be, so no |
| 18:24.42 | smcquay | well, now if it were a question of getting cheap hardware with something better than vista ... |
| 18:25.12 | tensai | jsmith: I know for certain I've used $() in crontabs before |
| 18:26.15 | tensai | can't find any just now though. hmm. |
| 18:29.57 | jsmith | goozbach: Even with the quotes, I still get: /bin/sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `)' <newline> /bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file |
| 18:30.49 | goozbach | jsmith: just write it into a script then |
| 18:31.23 | jsmith | goozbach: Yeah... I'll do that... I just hate having dependencies on external scripts (that often forget to get backed up, etc.) |
| 18:31.35 | elg | trots off to the library to pick up an awk book |
| 18:31.52 | tensai | jsmith: write a crontab to back it up :) |
| 18:33.08 | jsmith | tensai: I know, I know... |
| 18:37.23 | levi | Supposedly OS X already works pretty well on netbooks. |
| 18:37.30 | levi | A couple of models, anyway. |
| 18:37.51 | levi | I would certainly buy OS X for PC, though I doubt Apple would ever offer it. |
| 18:43.44 | sjansen | can't believe that jsmith didn't just fly up to Montreal and knock on his door to ask if he was in such a hurry |
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| 18:47.05 | sjansen | jsmith: Sounds to me like /bin/sh is acting like the real Bourne shell, not Bash. |
| 18:48.17 | mrpull | pidgin's sounds are not working as expected |
| 18:48.32 | jsmith | sjansen: I wasn't serious... but how do you like Montreal? |
| 18:48.33 | mrpull | (that was a test to see if "chat" works, but not "im") |
| 18:48.36 | mrpull | chat works |
| 18:48.39 | mrpull | dangit |
| 18:48.39 | sjansen | mrpull: Blame Pulse Audio. Everyone else is. |
| 18:48.42 | elg | mrpull: change your expectations |
| 18:48.50 | mrpull | :) |
| 18:48.55 | elg | sjansen: it helps that pulseaudio is often to blame |
| 18:49.17 | elg | off the top of my head, 3 of the last 4 audio problems I had were PA's fault |
| 18:49.31 | mrpull | this time we can blame MS |
| 18:49.35 | levi | The pulseaudio setup I tried was horribly broken, and it was far easier just to disable it than to try to make it work. |
| 18:49.36 | mrpull | (maybe) |
| 18:49.37 | sjansen | elg: For example? |
| 18:49.37 | elg | sweet |
| 18:50.14 | sjansen | Most problems I've had are because mixing stupid OSS only apps like Flash Player with Pulse Audio doesn't work. |
| 18:50.24 | sjansen | But I choose to blame Flash Player for being closed source. |
| 18:50.47 | sjansen | As for KVM... I choose to not file a bug because I'm too lazy. |
| 18:50.56 | sjansen | So I guess that makes KVM my fault. |
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| 18:51.16 | elg | firefox wouldn't play audio. mythtv couldn't get the soundcard. a blackice feed wouldn't work until i disabled pa |
| 18:52.06 | sjansen | In other words, in all cases it was because OSS only apps couldn't lock the card. You already had the same problem with other OSS only apps, but never noticed. |
| 18:52.07 | elg | i omitted the fighting with jack because me trying to monopolize the sound card with jack it would be hardly fair to blame pulseaudio |
| 18:52.14 | elg | but i had to disable it there too |
| 18:52.15 | elg | no, not oss |
| 18:52.20 | elg | except perhaps firefox |
| 18:52.41 | elg | and those are just the ones that i remember off the top of my head |
| 18:53.03 | elg | plain and simple, pa is too demanding. so oss apps are the most obvious ones that get trampled, fine |
| 18:53.08 | elg | but that doesn't mean pa is well behaved |
| 18:53.16 | elg | just because oss apps deserve it |
| 18:54.51 | elg | pa is the newcomer. if firefox breaks when I upgrade my os because now my os uses this newfangled pa thing, then pa broke it. if you want to supplant the audio scene, you have to do it in a way that doesn't break |
| 18:55.10 | elg | now if people consciously installed pa for its really nifty features, and then it broke an old oss program, then you can blame the oss program and say tough luck |
| 18:55.54 | elg | but when people complain to their distro that things be broken, and it's pa's fault, then it's pa's fault. the distro should either fix pa to where it doesn't break things, or put in workarounds, or something |
| 18:56.24 | elg | not just use a not-ready-for-primetime "technology" and blame flashplayer when users complain |
| 18:56.39 | tensai | so how does one disable pa? |
| 18:56.55 | elg | especially when the motivation is so you can have cutesy sounds when an alert box comes up |
| 18:57.40 | elg | tensai: besides a cronjob that does killall pulseaudio every minute? I don't know. ;-) |
| 18:57.40 | elg | i did know once |
| 18:57.40 | elg | but these days it's easier to remember the cronjob |
| 18:57.41 | elg | i think you only need to kill it once per session |
| 19:01.00 | elg | so anyway, my point is not to dis pulseaudio. it has a place and if it just worked that place might even be the default sound server |
| 19:01.32 | elg | my point was simply that if users blame pulseaudio it's often not misplaced blame |
| 19:02.12 | tensai | this thread is great. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=771108 |
| 19:02.30 | tensai | "I figured out how to fix pulseaudio. I just uninstalled jack. jack must be the problem." |
| 19:03.48 | elg | odd. was audacity starting jackd? |
| 19:04.02 | elg | it can be configured to use jack, but I don't think it does by default |
| 19:04.17 | elg | methinks that user was confused |
| 19:04.45 | levi | The audio situation in Linux is just silly. |
| 19:05.01 | high_roller | you would think it would have been figured out by now |
| 19:05.02 | levi | The video situation in Linux is pretty silly, too. |
| 19:05.16 | tensai | but we *need* 10 different conflicting audio systems |
| 19:05.17 | smcquay | how can it be fixed? |
| 19:05.36 | elg | problem #1: nobody thought to do software mixing in the kernel, where it belongs |
| 19:05.41 | elg | until it was too late |
| 19:05.47 | levi | I'm not sure it can be fixed. |
| 19:05.50 | elg | problem #2: alsa didn't make software mixing a high priority |
| 19:06.10 | elg | it's there now, but it came too late and people still believe things like "can't play more than 2 sounds at once with alsa" |
| 19:06.17 | elg | problem #3: pulseaudio |
| 19:06.24 | elg | problem #4: we shall see. I'm sure it's coming. :) |
| 19:06.36 | fozzmoo | Me believes pulseaudio and alsa need to be merged or something. |
| 19:07.06 | elg | still, in the pro audio world, linux is quite nice. i always prefer to work in linux over osx for audio work |
| 19:07.23 | tensai | far as I can tell, pulse is pre-disabled on mythbuntu |
| 19:07.27 | elg | i don't even have to futz with realtime kernels anymore |
| 19:07.34 | elg | tensai: makes sense |
| 19:07.34 | fozzmoo | elg: That's nice. |
| 19:08.05 | elg | just need to set up realtime privs in /etc/security/limits.conf and I'm good to go |
| 19:08.54 | *** part/#utah smcquay (n=smcquay@clusterresources.com) |
| 19:09.27 | levi | Linux is awesome for special-purpose stuff, where you can live in your own little niche and don't care about having everything play nicely with other stuff. |
| 19:10.13 | Jayce^ | no wonder I love it so much :) |
| 19:10.45 | levi | This is also why it fails so badly at general purpose desktop integration stuff, which tries to pull all the niche stuff together with a coherent interface. |
| 19:11.30 | sjansen | So as mentioned, I'm in Montreal this week. |
| 19:12.02 | sjansen | So far almost everything is written in French. About half include English, often in smaller type. |
| 19:12.39 | levi | Have you felt the urge to surrender or eat cheese? |
| 19:12.41 | sjansen | I've only seen two things in English only. 1) Our training manuals. 2) A pamphlet in the restroom. "I Wash My Hands". |
| 19:15.08 | sjansen | elg: I disagree. If you don't want breakage, pay for an enterprise desktop or workstation distro. SLED is most famous, but Red Hat has one too. |
| 19:15.09 | fozzmoo | Glenn Beck mentioned Montreal at his stage show last Summer. :) |
| 19:15.46 | elg | i once saw a paddington bear episode set in montreal |
| 19:16.10 | fozzmoo | He was telling a story about going to the airport in NY with his gun. He went up to check in at the counter, told the agent he had a gun, she handed him a form to fill out "for law enforcement only." |
| 19:16.57 | fozzmoo | He told her he wasn't law enforcement and she started freaking out. Told him the gun had to be transported in three separate containers. One with the gun. One with the bullets. One with the "thingie" that goes into the gun. |
| 19:17.17 | fozzmoo | He only had two bags. |
| 19:17.28 | levi | Poor Glenn. So oppressed. |
| 19:17.41 | fozzmoo | She said, "That guy over there- he's with you, isn't he? Why don't you have him carry one of the pieces?" |
| 19:17.58 | fozzmoo | Wouldn't that violate the "Has anyone asked you to carry something in their luggage" rule? |
| 19:18.22 | fozzmoo | Anyway- when he got to where he was going, the airline informed him that one of his pieces of luggage had been lost. |
| 19:18.30 | levi | The more I listen to Glenn Beck, the less I like him. |
| 19:18.35 | fozzmoo | It ended up in Montreal. |
| 19:18.39 | sjansen | agrees |
| 19:18.48 | fozzmoo | Glenn said, "You transported my gun over international lines?!" |
| 19:19.19 | sjansen | The first time I heard Glenn Beck, I thought "Finally, a sane talking head". The longer on TV, the less accurate I think that first impression was. |
| 19:19.37 | fozzmoo | But, he continues, he enjoyed imagining the police in Montreal unzipping his bag, seeing the gun, jumping back and yelling, "We surrender! We surrender!" |
| 19:20.07 | levi | I don't listen to him a lot, mostly just when I'm moving my wife's car, which amounts to less than 5 minutes. Yet, in those random segments, he often manages to say something that makes me shake my head. |
| 19:20.24 | elg | i need a knife |
| 19:20.32 | levi | Sometimes it's the things he says, sometimes it's in the crazy over-the-top way he says tehm. |
| 19:20.38 | levi | /s/tehm/them/ |
| 19:20.56 | fozzmoo | levi: sjansen: I can understand where you're coming from. He's constantly apologizing for sounding like he's "from crazytown." |
| 19:21.13 | fozzmoo | You're bound to have that impression if you only listen to him sporadically. |
| 19:21.17 | fozzmoo | So, I guess a lot of people do. |
| 19:22.04 | levi | If a random sampling of his show does not invoke any kind of confidence that he has something worthwhile to say, why should I beleive that more consistent listening would be worthwhile? |
| 19:22.12 | ^Migs^ | I rather like Glenn Beck, actually |
| 19:22.38 | ^Migs^ | by his own admission, he's not trying to be worthwhile. |
| 19:22.47 | Jayce^ | levi, so you must hate NPR then :) |
| 19:23.05 | levi | Jayce^: I pretty much always enjoy the random bits I hear from NPR. |
| 19:23.27 | fozzmoo | My experience with NPR is about half and half. |
| 19:23.37 | fozzmoo | Sometimes I find the articles they play very interesting. |
| 19:23.50 | fozzmoo | other times, it's just sensationalizing of victimhood. |
| 19:24.04 | levi | Well, there are parts that I listen to and find kind of dull, but I rarely listen to something by NPR that makes me shake my head. |
| 19:24.17 | fozzmoo | The victim stories really make me shake my head. |
| 19:24.59 | levi | Glenn Beck is all about victim stories. It's just that his victims are less concrete, and his stories are more sensationalized. |
| 19:25.02 | fozzmoo | The last time I turned on NPR, tho, they had an interview with Amnity Schlaes. That was way cool! |
| 19:25.20 | fozzmoo | Of course, they had a guy on there with her who said she was full of crap. |
| 19:25.24 | fozzmoo | But she's not. :) |
| 19:25.48 | ^Migs^ | you're all a bunch of socialists |
| 19:25.59 | ^Migs^ | that's what Glenn would say, at least |
| 19:26.03 | levi | Imagine that, airing two sides to a story IN THE SAME SHOW! |
| 19:26.19 | levi | Unthinkable! How would people decide what was right?! |
| 19:27.51 | fozzmoo | But, yeah, I'll turn on NPR and hear some story about "Jolitaja" in New Jersey and how she's 15, has 8 kids with 4 different guys, none of which have met their children, can't afford the rising costs of health care, has no job skills, but wants to write a book about gardening. |
| 19:28.51 | levi | What show is that from? This American Life? |
| 19:30.18 | fozzmoo | I don't remember the specific show. Just trying to paint a picture of what kind of articles I hear about 1/3 to 1/2 the time. |
| 19:30.46 | levi | ^Migs^: By his show's subtitle, "The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment," I think we can infer that Glenn Beck wants to be taken seriously and thinks what he says is worthwhile. |
| 19:31.26 | fozzmoo | Or that he wants to be viewed as a genuine entertainer. :) |
| 19:31.28 | ^Migs^ | if he did, he wouldn't repeatedly call himself a "clown" |
| 19:31.37 | ^Migs^ | I think he sees himself more as an entertainer than an informer |
| 19:31.58 | ^Migs^ | at his live shows, I understand he typically just talks about his history, tells jokes, etc. |
| 19:31.59 | fozzmoo | When I first heard him, he was much more entertainer than anything else. |
| 19:32.07 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 19:32.18 | ^Migs^ | it's really only recently he started talking about politics and stuff |
| 19:32.22 | ^Migs^ | like, all the time |
| 19:32.29 | fozzmoo | But the last couple years, it's all gloom and doom- bury your guns, educate your kids about history and law... |
| 19:32.42 | ^Migs^ | that's actually why my wife started getting sick of him...she used to like him just because he was fun to listen to |
| 19:32.43 | fozzmoo | BUILD UP YOUR FOOD STORAGE! |
| 19:32.44 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 19:33.06 | levi | I've only heard him since he decided to transform himself to Rush Lite. |
| 19:33.11 | fozzmoo | I enjoyed it when he interviewed Orrin Hatch and said, "You and I both know our Constitution is hanging by a thread, sir." |
| 19:33.17 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha |
| 19:33.25 | ^Migs^ | nice one |
| 19:35.20 | ^Migs^ | some of his video compilations are actually quite good |
| 19:35.40 | fozzmoo | "The history of illegal immigration... in a couple minutes" is quite good. |
| 19:36.03 | ^Migs^ | I haven't seen that one yet...I remember one from a few years ago about Islamic Extremist Propaganda |
| 19:36.04 | fozzmoo | Goes to show this "recent controversy" has been going on for over 100 years. |
| 19:36.33 | levi | This is not helping your case that he was only political recently. |
| 19:36.56 | fozzmoo | The specials he did on CNN about Islamic extremism and security problems at our schools were very well done. |
| 19:37.30 | fozzmoo | levi: he's always been political, just more so (a LOT more) the last couple years. |
| 19:37.49 | fozzmoo | Has anyone listened to Rush the last month or so? |
| 19:38.06 | fozzmoo | It's been hard for me to. |
| 19:38.35 | fozzmoo | I kind of expected his show to fall back into the winning formula he had during the Clinton years. |
| 19:39.01 | fozzmoo | Then, it was just pure sarcasm the whole time. |
| 19:39.47 | fozzmoo | But now, sheeesh, he's... angry, bitter, etc. More of a GOP shill than ever. |
| 19:40.24 | ^Migs^ | Here's the History of Illegal Immigration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAaBgMmSrJo |
| 19:40.51 | ^Migs^ | and the Islamic Extremist video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5422LKhSVTc |
| 19:41.05 | ^Migs^ | Rush really bugs me |
| 19:41.10 | levi | OK, so I just watched the Illegal Immigration one. Still not a fan of his style. |
| 19:42.28 | fozzmoo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HelIHTveKQw <-- History of the Middle East... in a Couple Minutes |
| 19:42.58 | levi | No thanks, I don't feel the need to subject myself to any more of that. |
| 19:43.37 | ^Migs^ | watch the Islam one |
| 19:43.44 | ^Migs^ | OR ELSE |
| 19:43.51 | ^Migs^ | we'll make a Beckite out of you yet! |
| 19:43.59 | levi | Oooh, ^Migs^ threatened me! |
| 19:44.11 | levi | Sorry, not gonna do it. |
| 19:44.27 | Jayce^ | awaits levi to pull his shirt over his head.... "are you threatening me!!!!" |
| 19:44.33 | Jayce^ | (anybody catch the reference?) |
| 19:44.34 | Tene | ohman, are we threatening each other today? |
| 19:45.06 | levi | Tene: Only in vague, non-threatening ways. |
| 19:45.11 | Tene | Aw. :( |
| 19:45.39 | fozzmoo | Glenn's history of the democratic superdelegates is probably the best ever. |
| 19:45.49 | fozzmoo | Unfortunately, it's not as timeless as the others. :) |
| 19:45.52 | levi | Now, if ^Migs^ actually had the power to force me to see more of Glenn's videos, I might be worried. |
| 19:45.52 | ^Migs^ | it's actually interesting, levi. It shows snippets of soap operas, childrens' shows, etc. from Islamic television. Shows things like Jews stealing children's eyes, a cartoon program for kids supporting suicide bombing, etc. |
| 19:46.05 | ^Migs^ | I think you underestimate my Jedi powers |
| 19:46.09 | fozzmoo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKc0iQ4jnUY |
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| 19:54.25 | Tene | http://www.chroniclebooks.com/index/main,book-info/store,books/products_id,7847/title,Pride-and-Prejudice-and-Zombies/ |
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| 20:01.30 | findlay-s | ~explain |
| 20:01.43 | findlay-s | ~explain sjansen |
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| 20:46.29 | levi | ^Migs^: So, I still haven't watched that video. When are your super-awesome powers going to kick in and make me watch it? |
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| 20:51.43 | elg | ugh. i hate it when you have to code through the "Refactor Wall" |
| 20:52.19 | elg | when your instincts are screaming "time to refactor!" but you don't have time and just need to do That One Last Thing⢠first before embarking on the week-long refactoring |
| 20:52.29 | elg | it sucks all the excitement out of it |
| 20:54.12 | levi | Yeah, I feel your pain. |
| 20:54.59 | levi | The code I'm working on now is experimental prototype stuff that badly needs to be refactored, but I need to get a nasty bug fixed first, and there's a lot of pressure to get it ready for a demo. |
| 20:56.12 | findlay-s | why don't you expand and cancel terms instead? |
| 20:56.25 | elg | ~cancel findlay |
| 20:56.34 | findlay-s | or use the binomial theorem |
| 20:56.46 | findlay-s | to approximate the code |
| 20:56.50 | findlay-s | that should work |
| 20:56.57 | elg | use findlay-s-expressions |
| 20:57.21 | findlay-s | 'too many parenthesis' |
| 21:03.09 | ^Migs^ | Oh, my superawesome powers don't work like that. Just the fact you're still thinking about it demonstrates exactly how my powers work. It will continue to gnaw at you, make you wonder, "Should I watch it? Should I?" Eventually you won't be able to eat, won't be able to sleep, you'll get ill-tempered... |
| 21:03.15 | ^Migs^ | And before you know it, you'll start finding yourself snapping at people for no reason at all, your temper becoming sharper and sharper, until one fateful day... |
| 21:03.22 | ^Migs^ | BAM! Someone dies, and you get the electric chair. So isn't it really in your best interest to watch the video right now, and avoid a tragic end? |
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| 21:23.03 | findlay-s | ~watch ^Migs^ |
| 21:23.04 | ibot | ACTION gazes at ^Migs^ carefully |
| 21:23.23 | jshipley | does anybody know of a decent keyboard that has media keys without a dozen other special keys? |
| 21:24.06 | jshipley | i.e. play/pause/stop/next/prev/volume, but no home, back, refresh, email, 'My Computer', etc. |
| 21:32.55 | fungus | I got one of these: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=310-7940 |
| 21:34.22 | fungus | It's got a few extra keys, but isn't so bad. |
| 21:36.01 | elg | i have a logitech S530 mac (they have a "pc" version too - really it's just the colorscheme and maybe a few key labels) |
| 21:36.12 | fozzmoo | jshipley: I like Logitech's "Internet keyboard" |
| 21:36.24 | elg | it's cordless, so expensive, but it is just a regular keyboard with a few extra keys on the side that don't get in the way but allow you to control e.g. media player |
| 21:36.52 | elg | http://www.zmonkey.org/blog/zmonkey.png |
| 21:38.00 | fozzmoo | The Logitech Internet 350 only has 8 extra buttons. |
| 21:38.25 | fozzmoo | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126012 |
| 21:38.32 | fozzmoo | $11 |
| 21:39.14 | elg | kind of a lot of wasted space there |
| 21:39.19 | jshipley | that looks better than the logitech internet keyboard I used to have |
| 21:39.22 | elg | but it's probably a good keyboard |
| 21:39.30 | jshipley | I like the dell keyboard better though |
| 21:39.45 | jshipley | it's pretty much what I have at work |
| 21:40.01 | RyanE | I like the split keyboards, and mine at home was acting up, so I got a MS one, it's got freaking billion useless extra keys. |
| 21:40.06 | jshipley | I really like having a knob for volume |
| 21:40.29 | jshipley | I had a Microsoft ergo keyboard years ago. It was a basic model though, didn't have any extra keys at all |
| 21:41.04 | elg | this one is a hair more compact |
| 21:41.05 | elg | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126022 |
| 21:41.55 | RyanE | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109148 is what I ended up getting. I can actually *use* the keys in Linux, but it's definitely overkill. |
| 21:42.16 | fozzmoo | Eww. Ergo. |
| 21:42.37 | RyanE | I've used one for 8 or 9 years now (split ergo). |
| 21:42.51 | WoodsDog | i use the logitech wave |
| 21:42.53 | WoodsDog | it's nice... |
| 21:43.07 | WoodsDog | the wave isn't ergo, but has a slightly different feel to it |
| 21:43.14 | elg | to me a keyboard should be just big enough and get the freak out of the way |
| 21:43.21 | jshipley | I have a dell keyboard at work. I had to fiddle a bit (using xev to discover the keys, xmodmap to map them, and xfce keyboard prefs to assign them as shortcuts) |
| 21:43.29 | jshipley | to get them working |
| 21:43.34 | elg | the keys are all the same size, why must they "add value" by throwing in 6 inches of wasted plastic on every side? |
| 21:43.51 | RyanE | yeah, that's my argument with it. I'm considering cutting off the number keys, like this: http://www.tlb.org/keyboardchop.html |
| 21:43.52 | brac | [Keyboard Mods: Chopping the Numeric Keypad off a Microsoft Natural Keyboard] |
| 21:44.34 | elg | well the numpad is actually useful (though if you're into maximizing horizontal space, look at the happy hacker keyboard) |
| 21:44.44 | elg | that big ramp is a perfect example |
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| 21:45.06 | elg | for ergonomic operation your hands should not be resting on anything while you type |
| 21:45.11 | RyanE | I don't use the numeric keypad that often. When I do my taxes, I could always get a different keyboard. :) |
| 21:45.34 | elg | or get a usb numpad that you can move into place when needed. :) |
| 21:45.39 | jshipley | I get by without it, but I really like my keyboards to have one |
| 21:46.13 | RyanE | I might be too chicken to do it anyway, since the keyboard was not cheap, and I do like it. |
| 21:46.26 | jshipley | my biggest annoyance with my laptop is that, even though it has enough space for a full keyboard, it doesn't have a numpad. it has 3 inches of empty space either side of the keyboard instead |
| 21:50.02 | fozzmoo | I'm using a Rosewill RK650 |
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| 21:50.15 | fozzmoo | It has stop/play-pause/vol-up/vol-down/mute |
| 21:50.28 | jshipley | do those logitech media keyboards have the close button on the left side, next to the shift key? |
| 21:51.27 | jshipley | I don't see where the stop/play-pause/volume keys are on the rosewill |
| 21:51.36 | jshipley | http://www.rosewill.com/RosewillPhoto/RK650_enlarge.jpg |
| 21:51.53 | fozzmoo | Above the F-keys |
| 21:52.03 | fozzmoo | I bought it from New Egg, but it doesn't look like they have it anymore. |
| 21:52.06 | jshipley | oh, I see them |
| 21:52.10 | fozzmoo | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201015 |
| 21:52.19 | jshipley | that's not bad. |
| 21:52.20 | fozzmoo | I like it because it is a smaller profile than most keyboards. |
| 21:52.25 | fozzmoo | And it has laptop-style keys |
| 21:52.44 | jshipley | I don't really like what they did with the insert/delete/home/end/pg-up-pg-down/arrow keys though |
| 21:52.48 | fozzmoo | My only complaint is that it is less tolerant of all the sunflower seed shells. :) |
| 21:52.56 | fozzmoo | I don't mind it really. very easy for me to get used to. |
| 21:53.40 | jshipley | I use them often enough that my fingers know where they are... when I get on a keyboard that has them placed differently I get confused |
| 21:54.04 | fozzmoo | I bought another smallish keyboard to replace the Rosewill |
| 21:54.15 | fozzmoo | I couldn't stand it because the Enter key was small. |
| 21:54.25 | jshipley | That rosewill is a nice looking keyboard though |
| 21:54.25 | fozzmoo | and not where it was supposed to be. |
| 21:54.44 | fozzmoo | So, it's in a box. :) |
| 21:55.33 | jshipley | hmm, http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/03/brandos-tiny-keyboard-now-in-wireless-multimedia-flavor/ looks interesting, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy using it |
| 21:55.35 | brac | [Brando's Tiny Keyboard, now in Wireless Multimedia flavor - Engadget] |
| 21:56.58 | elg | i saw a wireless keyboard at best buy the other day that was literally a macbook keyboard without the macbook |
| 21:57.20 | elg | about the same size as that one, but without keys in the wrong places |
| 21:57.35 | elg | I'm quite fond of the macbook kb |
| 21:57.57 | elg | no numpad but otherwise as nice as any keyboard. no cramping |
| 21:58.02 | elg | no wasted keys |
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| 21:58.50 | jshipley | I don't know that I love it... whenever I try to hit the Ctrl key, I have to stop and make sure that I'm not hitting the function key |
| 21:59.09 | jshipley | other than that though, it's a pretty nice keyboard |
| 21:59.25 | elg | yeah, i suppose that would bug me if i ever used that control key |
| 21:59.37 | elg | but i remap caps to control and that's my primary control key |
| 21:59.51 | jshipley | for emacs? |
| 22:00.00 | elg | no, for unix in general |
| 22:00.20 | elg | and for capslock being a total waste of space |
| 22:01.18 | jshipley | yeah, I can't remember the last time I used the caps key |
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| 22:02.59 | sjansen | The problem with Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, and pretty much any other talking head is they're entertainment masquerading as information. At least Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert are honest about being entertainment first and information when they feel like it. |
| 22:03.17 | fozzmoo | pffft |
| 22:03.25 | fozzmoo | And then there's Olbermann |
| 22:03.49 | fozzmoo | Pretends he's a "journalist" |
| 22:03.54 | fozzmoo | when really he's just a blogger. |
| 22:04.26 | fozzmoo | O'Reilly, OTOH, has some journalism cred. |
| 22:04.46 | fozzmoo | I don't know if I would classify his TV show as a news program. |
| 22:04.55 | fozzmoo | It's less opinion than other "opinion" shows. |
| 22:05.33 | fozzmoo | Beck says "Hey, I'm not a journalist. I'm just a DJ rodeo clown with an opinion." |
| 22:05.39 | unum | how do I give a user full access to a database with the mysql client |
| 22:05.47 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Your experience with NPR is pretty different from mine. When I listen it usually financial reports, current events humor, jazz or This American Life. When I turn it on and quickly change the channel it's boring short stories, Car Talk, or A Prairie Home Companion. I don't when where you're finding all this whining. |
| 22:06.05 | fozzmoo | I like Car Talk. |
| 22:06.18 | fozzmoo | Who doesnt? |
| 22:09.51 | sjansen | I don't anymore. The more they made fun of their annoying laughs and snorts, they more I noticed how annoying they are. |
| 22:10.03 | jshipley | unum: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/grant.html |
| 22:10.05 | brac | [MySQL :: MySQL 5.1 Reference Manual :: 12.5.1.3 GRANT Syntax] |
| 22:10.16 | jshipley | so, grant all on [db_name] to user |
| 22:10.19 | unum | jshipley: I figured it out I need to do database.* |
| 22:10.35 | unum | grant all on db_name to user; did not work |
| 22:10.42 | jshipley | ah, ok |
| 22:10.43 | sjansen | I used to think Car Talk was amusing entertainment with information I might use. Now I realize I'll never use the information, and my taste in entertainment has changed. |
| 22:10.49 | unum | but grat all on db_name.* to user seems to have worked anyways |
| 22:10.53 | jshipley | I'm a bit rusty on mysql |
| 22:10.53 | unum | we'll see |
| 22:11.21 | unum | ya me too |
| 22:11.23 | sjansen | I wonder if anyone has ever analyzed the relationship between liking Country music and liking Car Talk. I stopped liking Car Talk shortly after I stopped enjoying Country as much as I used to. |
| 22:11.36 | unum | I switched to postgres a while ago and forgot how my mysql stuff |
| 22:13.31 | jshipley | I fixed my keyboard volume knob in xfce :) |
| 22:14.30 | jshipley | I have no idea why deleting and re-adding the system keyboard shortcuts for volume would fix it, but it did |
| 22:33.36 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@209.104.70.126) |
| 22:39.41 | *** join/#utah romanovic1 (n=mclark@smtp-4.cmcflex.com) |
| 22:40.23 | jshipley | xfce is so much better than I used to think it was :) |
| 22:55.04 | smcquay | http://mardson.com/windows.png |
| 22:56.12 | maquis | yawns |
| 22:57.16 | sjansen | shoves a cucumber in maquis's open mouth |
| 23:00.53 | sjansen | I've finally finished out why Montreal actually has a few decent TV channels. They're being transmitted from Vermont. |
| 23:00.59 | *** part/#utah romanovic1 (n=mclark@smtp-4.cmcflex.com) |
| 23:01.19 | sjansen | Although the curling tournament last night was kinda interesting... |
| 23:01.31 | elg | curling rocks |
| 23:02.19 | goozbach | you can't watch curling without listening to this song: http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2006/02/10/thing-a-week-20-curl/ |
| 23:04.42 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 23:07.38 | eggyknap | responds, belatedly, to smcquay's post: I'm still having a hard time believing M$ is limiting the number of simultaneous apps. |
| 23:08.22 | smcquay | guesses that most people don't realize that OS multitasking is _not_ a new thing |
| 23:11.49 | maquis | eggyknap: it is, if the OS is taking so much memory that nothing else has space to run :P (no, i didn't read the post... just making an off-topic comment) |
| 23:13.21 | eggyknap | :) |
| 23:13.57 | maquis | i doubt i could run many simultaneous apps under vista on my desktop machine |
| 23:14.34 | maquis | that box can't even run firefox and songbird at the same time under linux :) |
| 23:16.09 | smcquay | my brother purchased 6 brand new laptops (came with vista), and they behave like a really old, corrupt xp install out of the box. superlag |
| 23:17.44 | elg | how does he use 6 laptops at once? |
| 23:18.46 | smcquay | torque+maui |
| 23:18.51 | smcquay | ha, just kidding. he manages a sales floor. |
| 23:19.20 | smcquay | although, if i could get the network cards to work under linux, i'd probably run a little cluster in my basement for a while. |
| 23:23.28 | jshipley | Did Windows 7 get the new filesystem that Vista was supposed to get? |
| 23:26.02 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 23:26.20 | sjansen | http://lbrandy.com/blog/2009/02/how-did-we-geeks-become-experts-on-macroeconomics/ |
| 23:26.26 | *** join/#utah smcquay (n=smcquay@clusterresources.com) |
| 23:29.54 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:35.46 | sjansen | Oh my. |
| 23:37.36 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.51 | elg | haha |
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| 23:38.22 | brac | casts Tene into the fires of Mt. Doom |
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| 23:42.38 | tensai | jshipley: here's what I've put together about winfs. it was not an ntfs replacement, but was instead a way to layer metadata in about your files. apparently the technology is still alive but winfs as a separate product is dead. parts of it have been incorporated into other applications. |
| 23:45.16 | fozzmoo | winfs was a dbfs wasn't it? |
| 23:51.12 | jshipley | sjansen: That macroeconomics post was very interesting |
| 23:51.27 | elg | summed up my feelings nicely |
| 23:52.55 | jshipley | My favorite line was the last one: I don't necessarily hold any of these opinions (except the one about you being a nutjob). |
