| 00:01.03 | high_roller | the one thing thought that was funny is everyone in vegas didn't want nuclear stuff leaking into the ground water, however, if they did leak it would go into death valley's water, not vegas' |
| 00:01.21 | sjansen | For most the opposition is (1) invisible nuclear stuff that can kill you is scary. |
| 00:01.59 | sjansen | For some it is (2) nearly 100% was created in other states, let them deal with it. What are we, America's garbage pit? |
| 00:02.59 | sjansen | And then of course there's the question of (3) will it really be stored as safely as they claim? |
| 00:03.53 | sjansen | Plus the small fringe who think (4) party at fozzmoo's! BYOB |
| 00:04.03 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 00:04.23 | Tene_ | Wait, party at fozz's? |
| 00:04.30 | Tene_ | Sweet. |
| 00:05.04 | high_roller | well fudge |
| 00:05.30 | high_roller | java stuff can be a real bitch sometimes |
| 00:05.52 | Tene_ | So I've heard. |
| 00:06.02 | Tene_ | I haven't had to touch Java since 2004 |
| 00:06.40 | high_roller | this IBM bladecenter requires less that java 1.6.0, guess what i have installed :( |
| 00:18.03 | unum | http://bash.org/?877430 |
| 00:18.04 | brac | [QDB: Quote #877430] |
| 00:18.20 | unum | I was working on a project for a guy and he left early |
| 00:52.33 | high_roller | hmm google seems to be going slow |
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| 02:03.36 | Sargun_Screen | huh |
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| 02:37.11 | levi | Good evening, friends. |
| 03:06.54 | fozzmoo | Hi Levi. |
| 03:07.09 | fozzmoo | I just lost at Dora The Explorer Chutes and Ladders to my 5-year old. |
| 03:07.16 | fozzmoo | He's a C&L Master. |
| 03:08.44 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:08.52 | levi | I didn't know there was such a thing. |
| 03:27.10 | levi | Anyone here played with KDE 4.2 yet? |
| 03:28.37 | fozzmoo | I've been waiting for it to come down the pipe for Fedora 10 |
| 03:28.48 | fozzmoo | I'm at 4.1.4 |
| 03:28.56 | fozzmoo | Maybe I should see if it's in testing. |
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| 03:30.28 | fozzmoo | checks rawhide |
| 03:30.36 | levi | I haven't used KDE in ages. Now that it's had a big shake-up, I'm wondering if I'd like it any better. |
| 03:34.00 | levi | My aunt-in-law passed away. :( |
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| 03:34.27 | fozzmoo | levi: natural causes? |
| 03:35.33 | fozzmoo | Looks like KDE 4.2 is in rawhide. It also looks like it would be painful to upgrade to it. :-/ |
| 03:39.20 | high_roller | fozzmoo: I'm waiting for it to be out of rawhide before installing it |
| 03:39.41 | levi | fozzmoo: Complications resulting from cancer treatment. |
| 03:39.47 | fozzmoo | high_roller: I was hoping it would be fairly painless to update to from rawhide... |
| 03:39.53 | fozzmoo | high_roller: But it looks really hairy. |
| 03:40.00 | fozzmoo | levi: I'm sorry. Cancer's the beast. |
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| 03:41.09 | high_roller | yea, I haven't had much luck mixing rawhide packages and fedora packages on a system |
| 03:41.41 | levi | fozzmoo: Yeah. We lost my wife's brother's wife about a year ago to cancer as well. |
| 03:53.45 | eightyeight | levi: you can get 4.2 from svn. i've heard a lot of good things about it |
| 03:55.45 | levi | eightyeight: I could, theoretically, get 4.2 from svn. But my Linux box is in a closet, and running KDE on Windows would be silly. |
| 03:57.08 | eightyeight | i've seen screenshots of running it on windows |
| 03:57.23 | levi | I've heard it's possible, but I don't see the point. |
| 03:58.00 | eightyeight | well, if your linux box is in the closet (not running? server?), why were you curious about it? |
| 03:58.38 | levi | It's a server. |
| 03:58.49 | levi | Because I'm curious about stuff. :) |
| 03:58.58 | eightyeight | that's good |
| 03:59.17 | levi | My laptop triple-boots XP, Win 7, and Ubuntu right now. |
| 03:59.40 | levi | So I could try it out if it was easy enough and I was sufficiently motivated. |
| 04:00.07 | eightyeight | yeah. it would be a pain i think. you'd have to make sure you have all libraries and dependencies taken care of |
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| 04:36.19 | levi | Maybe when kubuntu has 4.2 I'll try it out. |
| 04:36.32 | levi | I've been a Gnome user for a long time, though. |
| 04:37.06 | high_roller | windowmaker 4 life! |
| 04:38.00 | levi | Heh. |
| 04:38.29 | levi | I used to use that, back when the NeXTStep GUI was actually still somewhat fresh. |
| 04:41.54 | high_roller | back when I was cool with completely transparent terminals, and a dancing tux windowmaker applet |
| 04:42.51 | levi | I never could get the hang of transparent terminals. |
| 04:44.39 | fozzmoo | I dabbled with it too- but only BARELY transparent. |
| 04:44.47 | fozzmoo | Otherwise it drove me nuts. |
| 04:45.02 | eightyeight | transparency drives me nuts as well |
| 04:45.28 | eightyeight | it's fine for screenshots. other than that, it just gets in the way |
| 04:45.32 | eightyeight | as does compiz |
| 04:45.35 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 04:46.17 | levi | I like some of the features of compositing window managers, but most of compiz is cool to look at once or twice but does just get in the way. |
| 04:46.18 | eightyeight | i used to have compiz installed on my laptop to show my students. now that i'm not with gl any longer, i don't think i'll keep it around |
| 04:46.42 | Heartsbane | eightyeight: I don't know, I can understand most of compiz is eyecandy but I find grouping/tabbing useful removing desktop clutter |
| 04:46.50 | levi | I like subtle drop shadows, the way it keeps damage from being visible, etc. |
| 04:46.53 | Heartsbane | and zoom is useful for preseantations |
| 04:47.07 | Heartsbane | *presentatations |
| 04:47.12 | Heartsbane | its past my bedtime |
| 04:47.18 | fozzmoo | I just hate how compiz makes me think my video hardware is total crap. |
| 04:47.30 | levi | Yeah, it's amazing how slow it is. |
| 04:47.50 | levi | I love the minimal (compared to compiz, anyway) compositing that OS X does, and it tends to be very speedy. |
| 04:48.13 | eightyeight | levi: yeah. that's true i guess. i like the minimization fluid and drop shadows. but wobbly windows, the cube, flames, and other super eye candy... ick |
| 04:48.22 | high_roller | I like the compositing that KDE 4 does, but it still needs work, thats how come I'm interested in 4.2 |
| 04:48.23 | levi | I also like the compositing in Aero. |
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| 04:53.23 | fozzmoo | I really, really liked Amarok before the move to KDE 4 |
| 04:53.33 | fozzmoo | But now... sheeez. |
| 04:53.37 | fozzmoo | It's worthless. |
| 04:53.56 | fozzmoo | I'm back to using xmms waiting for them to catch up. |
| 04:54.18 | tensai | that's not encouraging. I love amarok. |
| 04:54.31 | levi | What happened when they moved to KDE4? |
| 04:54.41 | fozzmoo | They rewrote it from the ground up using the new libs. |
| 04:54.50 | levi | Ahh. |
| 04:55.31 | fozzmoo | It's slow, for one thing. |
| 04:55.38 | tensai | die comic sans. die. |
| 04:55.41 | fozzmoo | It's a re-imagining of a music player. |
| 04:56.03 | fozzmoo | And I don't like the new direction. Frankly, I liked Amarok. |
| 04:56.29 | levi | I get it, you're not a Hope and Change kind of guy. ;) |
| 04:56.39 | fozzmoo | http://amarok.kde.org/screenshots |
| 04:57.04 | fozzmoo | heh. I'm all for hope and change. I just like substance with my hope and change. :) |
| 04:57.41 | fozzmoo | My biggest peeve about the new amarok is (a) slowness. |
| 04:57.44 | fortyseventeen | the buttons are scary |
| 04:58.04 | fozzmoo | Second, there's no way to control how it sorts lists... |
| 04:58.21 | fozzmoo | Or, what columns to display in the playlist (3rd column) |
| 04:58.27 | fozzmoo | You just get title and time. |
| 04:58.28 | fozzmoo | That's it. |
| 04:58.57 | levi | Slowness would be annoying. |
| 04:59.05 | elg | fozzmoo: might check out audacious |
| 04:59.14 | fozzmoo | elg: I will. |
| 04:59.19 | elg | it's essentially xmms without the exclusive xmms suckage |
| 04:59.24 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 04:59.30 | elg | kind of like svn to cvs |
| 04:59.34 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. |
| 04:59.40 | fozzmoo | That analogy I can grasp. |
| 05:00.04 | fortyseventeen | and scrobbling! |
| 05:00.04 | levi | Cool, I have a Quicksilver clone installed on my Windows 7 desktop. |
| 05:00.27 | elg | you have a quicksilver clone? or an application launcher? |
| 05:00.42 | elg | i.e., what does quicksilver mean to YOU? |
| 05:00.44 | levi | Hmm. Maybe it's more of an application launcher. |
| 05:00.57 | levi | I didn't use a lot of quicksilver's advanced features. |
| 05:01.08 | elg | i've found people seem to use quicksilver in so many different ways, though everyone uses it to launch apps |
| 05:01.09 | levi | But I like its style of application launching. |
| 05:01.21 | elg | yeah, it's definitely its most important feature |
| 05:04.02 | tensai | what's so cool about launching an app? |
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| 05:04.52 | levi | You can launch most anything with just a couple of keypresses. |
| 05:05.28 | tensai | ah, I guess katapult would be the kde clone of that. I recall being somewhat impressed with the idea, but didn't get much farther than that. |
| 05:06.18 | fozzmoo | KDE4's ALT+F2 run command thingie might be katapult. It's nice. |
| 05:06.19 | elg | think firefox3 or chrome location bar magic, but for launching applications, finding files, queueing up music |
| 05:06.21 | levi | Quicksilver goes a bit further with a plugin architecture that let you integrate with all sorts of apps, so maybe your default action for a certain set of keypresses would be to send an email or play a song. |
| 05:06.26 | fozzmoo | I can type 'f' and firefox pops up. |
| 05:06.35 | elg | and more intelligent than firefox3's location bar (haven't used chrome extensively so I don't know) |
| 05:06.44 | levi | Chrome's is pretty nice. |
| 05:06.51 | fozzmoo | Is Chrome ever coming to Linux? |
| 05:06.53 | elg | ff3 is pretty nice too |
| 05:06.53 | levi | I miss it when it's not there. |
| 05:06.59 | tensai | fozzmoo: katapult is separate from alt+f2 |
| 05:07.05 | fozzmoo | tensai: Okay. |
| 05:07.05 | levi | fozzmoo: Yes, they're working on Linux and OS X ports. |
| 05:07.06 | elg | but not quite as intelligent as quicksilver |
| 05:07.21 | tensai | fozzmoo: controlled with alt+space |
| 05:07.29 | tensai | maybe I'll have to give it another whirl |
| 05:07.35 | elg | i read the delay is the web toolkit |
| 05:07.57 | elg | they used some windows web toolkit now they have to refactor and/or port it |
| 05:10.02 | levi | The http library, at least, was Windows-specific. |
| 05:12.15 | tensai | fozzmoo: katapult will browse your amarok collection. I dig that. |
| 05:12.25 | fozzmoo | that's cool. |
| 05:13.28 | tensai | documentation is pretty pathetic |
| 05:17.09 | fozzmoo | Anyone dealt with git from windows? |
| 05:17.28 | fozzmoo | I'm working with some guys from India and they're saying the git client they're using for Windows... sucks. |
| 05:17.56 | levi | What sucks about it? |
| 05:18.03 | fozzmoo | It locks up. they say. |
| 05:18.08 | levi | Is it the cygwin client? I hear that one's slow. |
| 05:18.13 | fozzmoo | But, I'm a newbie git repository admin. |
| 05:18.52 | levi | msysgit appears to be the way to go. |
| 05:21.14 | fozzmoo | yeah. That's what they have. |
| 05:21.31 | levi | Well, maybe they could try the slow cygwin one then. |
| 05:21.33 | fozzmoo | I'm not running a git daemon. I just set up the repository and was thinking they'd access it via SSH |
| 05:21.44 | fozzmoo | But I wonder if msysgit won't do git over SSH |
| 05:21.47 | levi | I think that's supposed to work. |
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| 05:40.35 | jessie | hey guys. anybody in here? |
| 05:40.49 | levi | Yup. |
| 05:40.51 | levi | Hi. |
| 05:40.57 | jessie | Howdy. How's it goin? |
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| 06:11.05 | levi | jessie: It's going okay. |
| 06:11.18 | jessie | levi: that's good. :) where in utah you at? |
| 06:12.00 | levi | I live in Lehi and work in Sandy. |
| 06:13.04 | jessie | Nice. Where do you work? |
| 06:13.50 | levi | Harman International, with their Corporate Technology Group |
| 06:14.17 | levi | We're doing work on the IEEE AVB standards and trying to get real implementations going. |
| 06:15.28 | jessie | AVB standards, eh? Similar to firewire, then? |
| 06:16.18 | levi | AVB is audio-video bridging for Ethernet, but the layer 2 audio transport protocol we're using is very similar to the firewire one. |
| 06:20.06 | jessie | levi: hmmm.... sounds interesting |
| 06:21.20 | levi | Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's actually going to be really cheap to implement it once it's all standardized, so it should become ubiquitous in ethernet silicon. |
| 06:21.54 | levi | It allows for audio/video transport, precise time synchronization, and bandwidth reservation. |
| 06:22.04 | jessie | Hmm.... Very nice. lol |
| 06:23.44 | levi | The idea is to make it so you can attach all your AV equipment to a standard ethernet network and get high-quality audio/video transport. It's aimed at high-end in-vehicle infotainment systems, pro audio installations, and consumer audio gear. |
| 06:24.31 | jessie | I think I like the idea, for sure. Make it easy to transfer videos/audio from my camcorder right to a palm pilot/phone/car/etc. |
| 06:24.32 | jessie | ? |
| 06:25.08 | levi | Imagine getting a set-top box from your satellite company, plugging it into the LAN, and having all of its audio and video channels instantly available to all the TVs on the network. |
| 06:25.43 | jessie | Oh. Wow.... I love it already. Lol |
| 06:26.55 | levi | Plus, you can be maxing out your network with a big file transfer, but your audio and video streams will get priority and keep perfectly in sync and without any drop-outs. |
| 06:27.32 | levi | As a side benefit, the clocks on your networked gadgets will be perfectly synchronized, within a few nanoseconds. ;) |
| 06:28.00 | jessie | haha... wow. sounds like pretty advanced stuff. what language? |
| 06:29.17 | levi | Well, everything I'm doing now is in C for embedded operating systems, except for some analysis tools in C for Linux, like Wireshark plugins. |
| 06:30.58 | jessie | Ahh.... I see. I'm currently learning some C++, but no C just yet. :) |
| 06:33.39 | levi | Well, C++ is vastly more complex than C. |
| 06:34.27 | jessie | lol. so C's a bit easier, eh? |
| 06:36.30 | levi | Well, in some ways. It's simpler, but then assembly is simpler still, and it's not really easier. |
| 06:37.02 | tharmor | excuse my eavesdropping, but that sounds like a fun project to be working on. |
| 06:37.25 | jessie | Lol. I agree. :) |
| 06:38.00 | levi | It's pretty awesome, except when I'm beating my head against prototype hardware and software I can't control. |
| 06:39.34 | tharmor | :) |
| 06:39.51 | jessie | haha... i believe it. how long have you been working on it? |
| 06:40.08 | levi | I've been on the team for a little over a year now. |
| 06:40.52 | jessie | very nice. lol |
| 06:43.03 | levi | Huh, msysgit uses html pages for git help. |
| 06:44.37 | jessie | odd |
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| 07:30.09 | Supaplex | nibbles on cashews and macadamias mmmm |
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| 10:05.43 | snyder | Can't sleep. |
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| 14:31.48 | Sargun | Sleep is for the weak |
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| 15:15.09 | brac | straps Tene to a chair, and plays a endless low bitrate MP3 loop of "the world's most annoying sound" from "Dumb and Dumber" |
| 15:23.39 | eightyeight | i take it 'puting' is not a word, such as 'i am puting the vase on the table', yet i hear it all the time |
| 15:24.08 | goozbach | ~dict puting |
| 15:24.09 | eightyeight | certainly, it's not spelled 'putting', as in 'he is putting the ball on the 9th green' |
| 15:25.07 | eightyeight | firefox thinks it's not a word, and it's not in any dictionary i've looked in |
| 15:25.28 | Sargun_Screen | To put. |
| 15:25.45 | Sargun_Screen | puting is that thing you do in golf too, right? |
| 15:25.49 | Sargun_Screen | or am I getting confused? |
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| 15:25.53 | eightyeight | no. that's putting |
| 15:26.19 | eightyeight | i take it you didn't read what i typed above? |
| 15:28.13 | goozbach | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/puting |
| 15:28.19 | goozbach | seems it really doesn't exist |
| 15:28.23 | goozbach | :) |
| 15:29.28 | eightyeight | i bet you've used it though |
| 15:29.51 | eightyeight | at least it's not as bad as 'irregardless' |
| 15:30.41 | goozbach | irregardless I'm puting the vase on the table. |
| 15:30.54 | goozbach | I doubt I've used it |
| 15:30.59 | goozbach | it doesn't feel right |
| 15:31.03 | eightyeight | hah |
| 15:32.15 | eightyeight | 'i am puting the toys away' 'i'm puting the blanket on the bed' |
| 15:32.22 | eightyeight | seems natural to me |
| 15:32.35 | eightyeight | hmph. oh well |
| 15:43.41 | Sargun_Screen | I'm hungry |
| 15:43.53 | Sargun_Screen | I'd like my coffee now. |
| 15:46.08 | Sargun_Screen | He is living comfort eagle |
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| 16:16.58 | jshipley | put |
| 16:17.07 | jshipley | * verb (putting; past and past part. put) |
| 16:17.29 | jshipley | so, 'I am putting the toys away' |
| 16:18.37 | jshipley | There is no puting, it's always putting -- whether you're talking about golf or not. |
| 16:19.42 | eightyeight | ahh. interesting. another reason to hate the english language |
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| 16:28.17 | jshipley | that word does seem to belong to us, instead of being borrowed from latin, greek, or some other language :) http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=put |
| 16:28.19 | brac | [Online Etymology Dictionary] |
| 16:28.50 | jshipley | I think I found a new favorite website :) |
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| 16:33.56 | elg | oh the things i have to figure out |
| 16:34.11 | elg | like, where do i put all this awesome audio equipment i just inherited from my advisor's lab? |
| 16:34.27 | goozbach | elg: the back of my car? |
| 16:35.07 | elg | i think it's restricted to my office |
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| 16:39.50 | elg | another midi kb, a mixer, an external sound card, a midi hub, an amp, and some monitors |
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| 18:10.22 | eightyeight | this is typical register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/28/sun_cloud_strategy_murdock/ |
| 18:10.23 | brac | [Sun's OpenSolaris chief leads cloud-strategy hunt ⢠The Register] |
| 18:10.36 | eightyeight | interesting response: http://ianmurdock.com/2009/01/28/dear-register/ |
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| 18:13.47 | ADM | ØØØ |
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| 18:14.05 | eightyeight | ¿¿¿ |
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| 18:23.47 | elg | hates career fairs |
| 18:28.56 | levi | elg: Do you have any speakers as cool as the ones I've got in the lab here? ;) |
| 18:29.21 | elg | hmm, probably not. but these don't look too bad. alesis monitor one |
| 18:29.59 | elg | 200W peak |
| 18:30.55 | levi | http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR4326P/ |
| 18:32.03 | elg | remains jealous |
| 18:32.12 | levi | They sound wonderful. |
| 18:32.30 | elg | so did someone say you can shred a root filesystem while the system is online? |
| 18:32.36 | elg | this vectra doesn't like my boot disk |
| 18:32.42 | elg | too ancient i reckon |
| 18:32.57 | levi | We have a few sets of some lesser speakers, too, but they don't sound nearly as nice. |
| 18:33.48 | levi | http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/JBL-LSR6325P-NearField-Active-Studio-Monitor?sku=600437 |
| 18:33.49 | brac | [Buy JBL LSR6325P Near-Field Active Studio Monitor | Powered Monitors | Musician's Friend] |
| 18:34.54 | levi | I'm not sure *why* they don't sound as nice, since they're similarly expensive and have similarly impressive stats, but that's how it is. |
| 18:43.24 | levi | elg: Anyway, if you're ever in the market for some nice studio monitors, I highly recommend the JBL LSR4326P. |
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| 19:50.07 | unum | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/01/the_exclusionar.html <- bad judge roberts, bad judge |
| 19:50.10 | brac | [Schneier on Security: The Exclusionary Rule and Security] |
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| 20:22.22 | levi | Anyone here used a service to get rid of a mouse problem before? |
| 20:26.36 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 20:26.41 | ^Migs^ | glue traps worked great for me |
| 20:26.48 | ^Migs^ | we had about 10 mice running around breeding constantly |
| 20:27.19 | ^Migs^ | I really don't see how a service could do a better job than you can |
| 20:27.44 | levi | So far we've only seen one under our kitchen sink, and haven't seen any droppings or gnawings anywhere. |
| 20:40.27 | jlp_work | levi: we had a mouse infestation last summer... we dealt with them using traditional spring traps. we found the "victor" brand to be most effective and relatively cheap. |
| 20:41.18 | eggyknap | remembers having to scrub the blood off of the wall from one such successful trap |
| 20:41.38 | jlp_work | the first step, though, is to get rid of anything they can feed on. if you have any food storage in cardboard boxes or bags, make sure it gets put into hard sided bins (plastic tubs with lids work great) |
| 20:43.08 | jlp_work | also check out your baseboards... if you find any small holes or cracks, stuff them with steel wool. the mice can't chew through that stuff and they won't make the holes larger. |
| 20:44.22 | jlp_work | I'd avoid solutions like poison (D-con, etc.) in most areas because the mice will eat it, then crawl inside your walls and die... then they'll rot and stink. |
| 20:44.44 | jlp_work | D-con is good for outbuildings (and garages) though |
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| 21:11.55 | levi | Yeah, I'll stay away from poison. |
| 21:12.36 | levi | Looks like the House didn't pass the DTV switchover delay. |
| 21:23.32 | unum | has two cats |
| 21:23.35 | elg | w00t |
| 21:25.16 | levi | I have a cat, but he doesn't seem to be much of a mouser. |
| 21:25.29 | unum | that's unfortunate |
| 21:25.47 | unum | I think one of mine is. |
| 21:26.34 | elg | levi: you feed it too much ;-) |
| 21:26.43 | elg | interesting, gmail has an offline mode now |
| 21:26.51 | elg | and plans to have the same for calendar |
| 21:26.59 | levi | Yeah, my cat is kind of chubby. |
| 21:27.37 | unum | my orange tabby will attack birds on the tv |
| 21:30.59 | eightyeight | levi: i thought the delay was already passed to june 12. not any longer? |
| 21:32.40 | elg | eightyeight: the senate only passed a bill |
| 21:32.43 | elg | it hadn't gone through the house |
| 21:33.05 | eightyeight | ahh |
| 21:33.07 | elg | and it looks like the primary reason it didn't make it is that they tried to go to fast and people bickered about funding |
| 21:33.23 | elg | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/01/28/ST2009012802327.html |
| 21:33.26 | brac | [House Votes Against Delaying Switch to Digital TV - washingtonpost.com] |
| 21:33.33 | elg | i'll take a no vote whatever the reason though. :) |
| 21:41.20 | eightyeight | http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/01/iphone-app-solv.html |
| 21:41.24 | eightyeight | cool |
| 22:05.55 | nicros | probably takes 10 minutes just to input all the data for the iPhone to solve it. |
| 22:06.21 | mrpull | nicros: actually, you just take a picture |
| 22:07.26 | mrpull | it actually looks like a better cheat that when i was a kid and just took the darn thing apart and put it back together |
| 22:07.31 | nicros | another stupid iPhone app that I would have thought of first. |
| 22:08.31 | levi | (but didn't) |
| 22:09.19 | nicros | I always just pulled all the stickers off |
| 22:09.34 | mrpull | nah man, pulling the stickers is the worst way |
| 22:09.41 | mrpull | those things stop sticking after a while |
| 22:10.11 | nicros | I just left them off, a whole lot easier to figure out when all sides are black. |
| 22:10.43 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@97-117-62-121.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:11.35 | nicros | I made a computer animated version of the rubix cube using 3D Studio in the early 90s |
| 22:14.51 | sjansen | Looks like Novell must still be doing really well financially. For their free Linux Day lunch they fed us filet mignon, foie gras, the best creme brulee I've ever had, then topped it off with cocoa butter foot massages for everyone. |
| 22:15.40 | Tene | http://builders.reprap.org/2009/01/play-thing.html |
| 22:16.04 | jsmith | sjansen: Either that, or they got their friends in Redmond to foot the bill |
| 22:16.13 | jsmith | (ooh, I even got a pun in there!) |
| 22:16.40 | nicros | sjansen: you work for novell? |
| 22:17.11 | mrpull | jsmith: careful... wheren't the pun police trying to reach their quota by the end of the month |
| 22:17.15 | mrpull | ? |
| 22:17.23 | sjansen | nicros: No, I'm just trying to make the rest of you jealous. |
| 22:17.57 | mrpull | sjansen: dude. a multitude of linux geeks with their feet out is kinda creepy. that negated all the talk of good food. |
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| 22:18.06 | nicros | ah... i'm looking for someone to send me an invite for Suse Studio |
| 22:18.39 | sjansen | Actually the food was good, but not amazing. The technique for introducing virtualization was interesting from a training stand point. Most of the rest of the presentation was either boring or pissed me off. |
| 22:19.05 | sjansen | mrpull: I had to include it, that was the clue that I was lying through my teeth. |
| 22:19.32 | Tene | sjansen: what upset you? |
| 22:19.51 | eightyeight | sjansen: novell and red hat apparently are up this year, where microsoft and sun are down, down, down |
| 22:19.55 | sjansen | AppArmor vs. SELinux was the big one. |
| 22:20.29 | jsmith | sjansen: I can understand why that might make some people upset (especially those who actually understand SELinux) |
| 22:20.31 | nicros | http://blogs.computerworld.com/being_anti_linux_is_bad_for_your_business_health |
| 22:20.47 | nicros | wants a Suse Studio invite |
| 22:20.51 | sjansen | Anyone technical enough to see past the sizzle of the technical presentation could tell they were either inaccurate or unimpressive. |
| 22:21.19 | thaddeusq | I loved the AppArmor demo |
| 22:21.24 | eightyeight | http://www.press.redhat.com/2009/01/20/red-hat-enterprise-linux-53-offers-customers-new-features-and-capabilities/ |
| 22:21.32 | eightyeight | bah. that's not it |
| 22:21.49 | sjansen | At one point they were playing an illegal copy of the James Bond trailer served from a virtual machine as it was migrated. |
| 22:22.02 | sjansen | But of course they let the trailer play through a few times first. |
| 22:22.22 | sjansen | Dude! Of course it will play without missing a frame if you make sure it's fully cached first! |
| 22:22.41 | eightyeight | http://blogs.computerworld.com/being_anti_linux_is_bad_for_your_business_health |
| 22:22.44 | eightyeight | there it is |
| 22:23.32 | sjansen | thaddeusq: As in "SELinux is so hard. AppArmor is so much easier. Watch me totally screw up creating an AppArmor policy already provided with SELinux!" |
| 22:23.35 | sjansen | ? |
| 22:23.49 | thaddeusq | exactly. |
| 22:28.49 | tensai | jsmith: just stumbled onto this delightful bill. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-30 |
| 22:29.36 | tensai | Truth in Caller ID act |
| 22:29.49 | jsmith | tensai: It's already illegal... why pass another law? |
| 22:29.59 | nicros | I thought it was already illegal to spoof caller id? |
| 22:30.04 | tensai | jsmith: looks good on the ole resume |
| 22:30.04 | Jayce^ | because it makes them look like they are doing something :) |
| 22:30.47 | Jayce^ | jsmith, kinda like making it more illegal to kill somebody with a gun, vs just killing them any other way.. |
| 22:31.06 | tensai | the classic example is the illegal drug stamps |
| 22:33.17 | Jayce^ | some rep (think a state rep tho) is trying to get a law mandating that all cameras have audible "clicks"... to protect the kids.. |
| 22:34.32 | goozbach | won't someone think of the children |
| 22:34.34 | goozbach | ? |
| 22:34.49 | tensai | Jayce^: if you can protect the kids from terrorists, that's even better |
| 22:35.26 | mrpull | Jayce^: will the video mode click 30 times a second? |
| 22:35.56 | eightyeight | what about me taking a picture of the pedophile taking the picture? if it's noisy, he'll know i'm watching him |
| 22:36.43 | sjansen | eightyeight: No big deal, if you're that interested in taking covert pictures you'll have no problem cutting a speaker wire. |
| 22:37.18 | maquis | Jayce^: that could make wildlife photography interesting.. |
| 22:37.18 | sjansen | In fact, just to be sure you can protect the children, I'd do it right now just to be safe. |
| 22:37.41 | eightyeight | i know. i'm just illustrating the ridiculous-ness of it is all |
| 22:38.23 | maquis | ooh... how bout the breaking DRM to pirate media is more illegal than pirating media without breaking DRM! |
| 22:38.30 | nicros | i'm just wait for another bill to be passed that give members of congress another raise. |
| 22:38.39 | maquis | sjansen: they'll make it illegal to cut the speaker wire, obviously |
| 22:38.51 | Jayce^ | maquis, except for that one bird that mimics everything it hears... classic attenburough video there |
| 22:39.05 | maquis | Jayce^: lol |
| 22:39.21 | sjansen | nicros: What's the big deal? Cost of living is going up for everyone. |
| 22:39.26 | maquis | Jayce^: i tried to make it to utah preppers meetup last week... my plane came in late, though :( |
| 22:39.47 | Jayce^ | wish we'd known you were coming |
| 22:39.58 | sjansen | Sure, for most people it's the cost of eating and staying warm, instead of golfing and collecting wine, but still... |
| 22:40.56 | nicros | why doesn't the government just mandate that every private company is required to give cost of living raises every year. wether they can afford it or not. |
| 22:41.14 | Jayce^ | you mean like minimum wage? |
| 22:41.33 | nicros | no, not like the minimum wage. |
| 22:41.46 | maquis | Jayce^: you would've made the fog in seattle go away so i could come? |
| 22:41.58 | Jayce^ | yeah, pretty much the way it works |
| 22:41.58 | nicros | the minimum wage is to ensure that people making minimum wage are not living below the poverty line. |
| 22:42.14 | sjansen | I don't see why business complains about minimum wage. It's pretty obvious that minimum wage has become a way to depress wages, not increase them. |
| 22:42.48 | nicros | they don't always raise the poverty line with inflation. |
| 22:43.09 | eightyeight | if minimum wage is above the poverty line, i'd be curious of your address |
| 22:43.11 | sjansen | No self respecting company would ever consider falling so far behind inflation without being able to hide behind the cover a a federally mandated minimum. |
| 22:43.12 | Jayce^ | as if they even say what inflation really is :) |
| 22:45.15 | fozzmoo | Raising the minimum wage really only accomplishes one thing: raises unemployment. |
| 22:45.57 | goozbach | min wage in GA works out to $10,300 a year |
| 22:46.02 | goozbach | GROSS |
| 22:46.19 | robertelee | how many of you are employers |
| 22:46.26 | tensai | idaho minimum wage is actually specified in pounds of potatoes |
| 22:46.53 | eightyeight | i thought you were paid in change? |
| 22:47.01 | goozbach | In 2007, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$10,787 |
| 22:47.13 | goozbach | so min wage in GA is below the poverty line |
| 22:47.13 | Jayce^ | nah, that's the new administration... *rimshot* |
| 22:47.32 | eightyeight | shakes his head |
| 22:47.54 | maquis | tensai: really? |
| 22:47.59 | fozzmoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:48.04 | tensai | maquis: oh, yeah |
| 22:48.28 | unum | fozzmoo: source? |
| 22:48.46 | goozbach | [Citation Needed] |
| 22:48.48 | tensai | maquis: 17.25 pounds an hour this year |
| 22:49.22 | unum | our company pays (state)minium wage to most of our employees |
| 22:49.28 | fozzmoo | unum: Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2005 Current Population Survey |
| 22:49.28 | unum | and most of them are not living with their parents |
| 22:49.40 | nicros | that's BS |
| 22:49.45 | eightyeight | to think i was hoping that people would catch the napoleon dynamite in it, but instead obama comes out |
| 22:49.48 | eightyeight | funny though. |
| 22:50.03 | nicros | the average personal income in Utah is only about 49K |
| 22:50.22 | nicros | and i know the average person in Utah isn't making minimum wage |
| 22:50.32 | jsmith | Average is misleading, however... mean and standard deviation would be more precise |
| 22:50.37 | unum | I think fozzmoo in implying that it's mostly college students |
| 22:50.46 | maquis | nicros: but utah has a higher minimum wage, though, right? |
| 22:50.47 | sjansen | And teenagers. |
| 22:50.49 | unum | s/college/high school |
| 22:50.51 | fozzmoo | The only workers who benefit from a higher minimum wage are those who actually earn that higher wage. raising the minimum wage reduces many workers' job opportunities and working hours. |
| 22:50.59 | unum | maquis: no we use the federal minimum |
| 22:51.02 | unum | you must be new here |
| 22:51.03 | fozzmoo | Few minimum-wage earners actually come from poor households. |
| 22:51.03 | eightyeight | maquis: $5.25, iirc |
| 22:51.18 | fozzmoo | The majority of poor Americans do not work at all, for any wage, so raising the minimum wage does not help them. |
| 22:51.21 | maquis | unum: actually, i don't live in utah... but i was speaking to someone a while ago who said it was over 6$ there... go figure :P |
| 22:51.28 | maquis | ah... 5.25 is pretty low |
| 22:51.41 | unum | utah is full of people like fozzmoo |
| 22:51.48 | eightyeight | i could be wrong. i'm recalling a faint image of a poster in the break room |
| 22:51.48 | unum | who believe the government shouldn't do anything |
| 22:51.50 | fozzmoo | unum: I wish. |
| 22:51.58 | maquis | we're 8.55 now here... |
| 22:51.59 | nicros | 5.25 per hour * 40 hours per week * 52 weeks in a year is only 10,920 |
| 22:52.01 | maquis | i just checked :P |
| 22:52.07 | unum | well people who claim to believe like fozzmoo, but then vote for hatch anyways :) |
| 22:52.25 | nicros | even at 8.55 an hour it's only 17,784 a year |
| 22:52.34 | nicros | wonder how they came up with 49K |
| 22:52.53 | sjansen | You can back of the envelope estimate income by 2000*hourly_rate. |
| 22:52.54 | fozzmoo | It's by household, not by job. |
| 22:52.56 | maquis | ~8.55*40*52 |
| 22:52.56 | ibot | 17784 |
| 22:52.59 | Jayce^ | nicros, because you didn't read what he typed |
| 22:53.14 | nicros | ah... I forgot, most minimum wage earners in Utah have to work 3 jobs. |
| 22:53.42 | Jayce^ | nicros, no, most people don't make just minimum, and out of those earning it, a lower percentage are 'head of household' earners |
| 22:53.43 | fozzmoo | Another thing to consider is that minimum wage workers are not usually the primary breadwinner in a household. |
| 22:53.45 | sjansen | nicros: Wrong again. fozzmoo is implying that minimum wage earners aren't primary care providers, they're dependents. |
| 22:54.12 | nicros | ah o.k. |
| 22:54.25 | eightyeight | i'm always interested to watch a political debate erupt when unum is online. then it never happpens |
| 22:54.26 | unum | heritage.org!=bureau of labor statistics |
| 22:54.28 | sjansen | As for why he chooses to ignore people who are primary care providers and still have to survive on minimum wage, that I can't explain. |
| 22:54.37 | fozzmoo | Workers who initially earn near the miniÂmum wage experience wage gains. But their hours and employment decline, and the combined effect of these changes on earned income suggests net adverse consequences for low-wage workers. |
| 22:54.38 | eightyeight | :) |
| 22:56.55 | fozzmoo | Another statistic that I've heard, that I can't source right now, is that a significant majority of minimum wage workers don't stay at minimum wage for very long. |
| 22:57.18 | eightyeight | i would hope that's the case |
| 22:57.20 | fozzmoo | I know I only worked for minimum wage for a few months when I was in high school. |
| 22:57.28 | nicros | probably because they are unemployed |
| 22:57.50 | unum | I was within $2.50 of minium wage until about 4 years ago |
| 22:57.59 | nicros | damn that sucks. |
| 22:58.06 | fozzmoo | Only one in five minimum wage-earners lives in a family that earns less than the poverty line. Three-fifths work part-time, and a majority are under 25 years old. |
| 22:58.09 | eightyeight | i don't think i ever started out at minimum wage |
| 22:58.12 | unum | s/4 years ago/until I was 25 |
| 22:58.19 | eightyeight | and that's probably because i never worked fast food |
| 22:58.39 | unum | I started out at minium wage for my age digging holes |
| 22:58.40 | Jayce^ | I only did when I worked for the school.. |
| 22:58.43 | fozzmoo | I worked at a gas station/convenience store in Cache Valley when I was in high school for minimum wage. |
| 22:58.46 | unum | I think it was about $3.50 at the time |
| 22:58.49 | Jayce^ | of course, I earned less than that working for scouts :) |
| 22:59.11 | fozzmoo | Incidentally, before I moved to Cache Valley, I was working for about $2 over minimum wage at a video store in WVC. |
| 22:59.16 | eightyeight | i did work for a cherry orchard. i was paid by weight of cherries picked |
| 22:59.21 | Jayce^ | of course, was nice to be a Programmer at the school, earning the same amount as the guy vacuuming the floors in the same room |
| 22:59.30 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Suhweet! |
| 22:59.37 | eightyeight | i have no idea now what it equated to hourly for my time spent picking, but it seemed good at the time |
| 23:00.58 | fozzmoo | Another thing to consider about minimum wage workers is that a significant subset earn gratuity on top of their wage. |
| 23:01.36 | maquis | i know in a lot of places, though, minimum wage for waters/waitresses is lower than for everyone else |
| 23:01.44 | fozzmoo | maquis: That's true. |
| 23:02.07 | fozzmoo | But a good waiter/waitress usually surpasses min. wage with tips. |
| 23:02.24 | fozzmoo | Bad ones... need to find another vocation. |
| 23:02.25 | maquis | yes... if they're good, they will surpass, assuming they're not in a particularly cheap area |
| 23:02.42 | tensai | http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/tipped.htm |
| 23:02.47 | brac | [U.S. Department of Labor - Employment Standards Administration (ESA) - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees] |
| 23:03.14 | tensai | maquis: WA doesn't allow tips to count toward minimum wage |
| 23:03.42 | maquis | tensai: i don't know exactly what it is here in washington |
| 23:03.56 | maquis | i'm thinking from some friends who worked waitressing jobs during the summers off from school |
| 23:03.59 | maquis | :) |
| 23:04.10 | tensai | UT minimum wage for tipped emplyees is $2.13 |
| 23:04.34 | unum | we had a receptionist who was making more as a part time waitress then she was full time as our receptionist |
| 23:04.36 | maquis | i've heard utahns are pretty sucky tippers, too... |
| 23:04.36 | sjansen | I am _so_ quitting to become a waiter at a greasy spoon! |
| 23:04.50 | unum | of course we were probably paying $5.15 an hour |
| 23:04.58 | maquis | at least the ones with big families that leave giant messes |
| 23:05.11 | maquis | (ok... so, i've heard a lot of bad horror stories) |
| 23:05.21 | unum | maquis: they're all about fozzmoo |
| 23:05.43 | fozzmoo | heh. I think I'm a fair tipper. As a rule I pay at least 15% |
| 23:05.44 | maquis | unum: i could believe that |
| 23:06.01 | maquis | i'll pay at least 15% unless they're particularly bad |
| 23:06.16 | unum | pays %30 unless they are bad |
| 23:06.18 | maquis | if they're particularly good, i'll give them a pretty good tip, usually |
| 23:06.27 | Jayce^ | right, I feel no shame in tipping less if they suck... but I usually pay more.. |
| 23:06.27 | fozzmoo | I once tipped a girl $20 at V.I. by the U and all I had was coffee. |
| 23:06.34 | fozzmoo | (this was when I was drinking coffee.) |
| 23:06.46 | mrpull | bad service == no tip + talk to manager |
| 23:06.49 | fozzmoo | She was so good at pouring coffee! |
| 23:06.51 | maquis | fozzmoo: why such a high tip? was she good? |
| 23:06.57 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, and probably hot too :) |
| 23:07.00 | fozzmoo | Oh, maquis she was GOOOOOOOD. |
| 23:07.02 | sjansen | When I'm spending someone else's money I'm a great tipper. At least 20%, unless the service is sucky, up to 100% if the meal was cheap enough. |
| 23:07.05 | Jayce^ | exactly |
| 23:07.09 | maquis | ~lart fozzmoo |
| 23:07.09 | ibot | calls fozzmoo on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home |
| 23:07.27 | maquis | sjansen: nice |
| 23:07.37 | eightyeight | i usually don't tip, where most people do |
| 23:07.50 | eightyeight | like the receipts that print out at a burger joint, asking for the tip |
| 23:07.53 | eightyeight | or the pizza driver |
| 23:07.54 | fozzmoo | points jabbingly at eightyeight and whistles at unum! |
| 23:08.24 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Yes, it's nice to pay tips with other people's money, isn't it? |
| 23:08.46 | JoshH | i tip pizza drivers, but not at burger joints/burrito joints/etc |
| 23:08.50 | sjansen | Even better to buy steak for myself with other people's money. |
| 23:09.06 | unum | I don't tip people that just ring up my order |
| 23:09.07 | fozzmoo | I don't think you're expected to tip at a walk-up place. |
| 23:09.09 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 23:09.15 | fozzmoo | They're not making 2.13/hour |
| 23:09.22 | unum | as I told eightyeight before, I think that just a generic thing |
| 23:09.24 | JoshH | it just seems like every reciept you see these days has a spot for a tip |
| 23:09.26 | fozzmoo | and they're not usually very good at their job either. |
| 23:09.52 | JoshH | when i do tip at restaurants though, i always tip well, usually 20 or 25 percent |
| 23:09.55 | tensai | tipping is such an arcane practice |
| 23:09.58 | fozzmoo | But, lately, I'll tip for excellent command of English. |
| 23:10.07 | fozzmoo | rolls eyes |
| 23:10.13 | fozzmoo | I know. I'm a hatemonger. |
| 23:10.18 | JoshH | i never calculate the percentage exactly, just some round dollar amount that seems reasonable |
| 23:10.27 | JoshH | the concept of tip calculators has always bugged me |
| 23:10.44 | fozzmoo | Yeah. How hard is it to do x * 0.15 in your head? |
| 23:10.59 | JoshH | i just don't like the idea of tipping some amount like 6.48 |
| 23:11.05 | JoshH | i'd rather make it an even 6 or 7 |
| 23:11.05 | unum | ya my tip is between %20-%30 usually rounding upwards |
| 23:11.25 | unum | I guess I tend to shoot for %25 and then round up |
| 23:12.11 | Jayce^ | anybody else always try to round up to an even dollar amount? |
| 23:12.57 | nicros | i never fill out the tip field, just the total, they can do the math themselves. |
| 23:13.20 | nicros | that extra work is considered when calculate my tip. |
| 23:13.30 | JoshH | i always fill out tip and total, just to make it tougher to alter it |
| 23:13.40 | JoshH | since there have been cases of that happening |
| 23:14.06 | mrpull | my lazy math... round up to next dollar, divide by ten, multiply by two |
| 23:14.22 | mrpull | unless my kids make a huge mess... and that happens almost every time |
| 23:14.24 | JoshH | and if i leave a cash tip, then i draw a line through those parts |
| 23:14.27 | eightyeight | unum: yeah. it's probably a generic thing, but also being taken into account for which state tips the most |
| 23:14.38 | mrpull | JoshH: crossing out is good policy |
| 23:15.29 | mrpull | i always get pissed at waitstaff that bitch that they only get paid $2/hr |
| 23:15.46 | mrpull | and use it (which isn't accurrate anyway) to justify cheating on their taxes |
| 23:16.14 | unum | mrpull: you mean by not reporting their tips |
| 23:16.24 | JoshH | i worked in a lot of restaurants when i was younger, and at every one, ALL the low wage + tips employees would only report approximately min wage |
| 23:16.29 | mrpull | unum: exactly |
| 23:16.43 | unum | I hate it when anyone cheats on their taxes by using a cash based payment system |
| 23:16.56 | fozzmoo | puts a dollar in his pocket |
| 23:17.09 | JoshH | i would be fine with some kind of crackdown on that, like the restaurant keeping track of all tips and doing the reporting for the worker or something |
| 23:17.16 | mrpull | unum: the justification would kill me... it's cheating |
| 23:17.28 | fozzmoo | Actually, restaurants are required to track gratuities. |
| 23:17.42 | fozzmoo | My mom ran a restaurant for 17 years. |
| 23:17.46 | mrpull | fozzmoo: some facilitate the cheating |
| 23:17.56 | fozzmoo | Some do, but they're not operating within the law. |
| 23:18.04 | JoshH | but that's a small problem compared to all the rich people out there using shelters, loopholes, simply lying, etc |
| 23:18.17 | JoshH | cheating on your taxes is almost an american tradition, it seems |
| 23:18.22 | fozzmoo | Yeah- those rich democrats are such hypocrits. :) |
| 23:18.32 | fozzmoo | I'M KIDDING! |
| 23:18.38 | tensai | Jayce^: I often will set the tip so that the total is a round number |
| 23:18.51 | unum | now that I'm a home owner I do feel like I'm cheating |
| 23:19.00 | unum | our tax laws suck |
| 23:19.22 | fozzmoo | unum: You think being a homeowner sucks, you should try being a business owner. |
| 23:19.25 | JoshH | i hate how utah rapes us on taxes compared to the other republican states |
| 23:19.40 | unum | fozzmoo: I am |
| 23:19.48 | fozzmoo | with employees? |
| 23:20.04 | unum | nope but brother is and my dad was |
| 23:20.26 | fozzmoo | IMO, businesses need some tax relief. |
| 23:20.40 | unum | IMO businesses have plenty of tax relief |
| 23:20.47 | unum | you don't pay taxes on gross |
| 23:20.49 | JoshH | we need to tax businesses and incomes less, and tax people with large numbers of kids in the public schools |
| 23:20.53 | unum | well not in utah |
| 23:21.01 | unum | I can't believe washington actually does that |
| 23:21.11 | unum | JoshH: you have a point there.... |
| 23:21.43 | unum | gas tax is an other important thing |
| 23:22.04 | maquis | unum: does what? |
| 23:22.08 | fozzmoo | Guv Huntsman wants to make I-15, from Idaho to Arizona, a "Natural Gas Corridor" |
| 23:22.10 | JoshH | we should also get rid of sales taxes on at least some things, like food ingredients |
| 23:22.19 | unum | since most of the state budget goes to either schools or roads |
| 23:22.30 | unum | maquis: taxes businesses on gross |
| 23:22.39 | maquis | unum: ah |
| 23:22.45 | fozzmoo | i thought he just wanted to give Questar rights to lay pipe, but he's actually talking about fueling stations popping up all along I-15 |
| 23:22.50 | maquis | i didn't know we did |
| 23:23.32 | maquis | do you guys have state income tax? |
| 23:23.40 | JoshH | ugh, yes |
| 23:23.41 | JoshH | and it's a lot |
| 23:23.45 | maquis | really? |
| 23:23.50 | maquis | what percent? |
| 23:24.10 | JoshH | i don't know the exact percent, just that's it's a big number when i look at my check stub |
| 23:24.16 | maquis | heh |
| 23:24.26 | nicros | wonders why the state decided to sell off their CNG vehicles and buy e85 vehicles instead. |
| 23:24.31 | fungus | Yeah, no legalized gambling here. :( |
| 23:24.57 | Tene | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20090128/164717/ |
| 23:25.07 | JoshH | we need ute casinos and a powerball |
| 23:25.19 | unum | the great thing about utah state income tax is there two ways to pay |
| 23:25.23 | JoshH | and a head tax on schoolchildren if you have more than 3 or something |
| 23:25.25 | fungus | Woot, PowerBall |
| 23:25.27 | unum | a graduated and flat tax |
| 23:25.31 | JoshH | forget about the eagle forum |
| 23:25.43 | unum | so if you're poor you pay graduated if you're rich you pay flat |
| 23:25.47 | nicros | CNG is nice but the capacity of those tanks is way to low for any long distance travel. |
| 23:26.00 | nicros | 11 gallon tank will fill your trunk. |
| 23:26.11 | fozzmoo | nicros: Not so much of an issue if there are lots of filling stations. |
| 23:26.49 | unum | looks like the income tax rate in utah gets up to 7% |
| 23:26.51 | nicros | well, right now there's only a couple filling stations in Utah and SL Counties |
| 23:27.08 | nicros | and at peak usage last summer they all had a difficult time keeping their tanks full. |
| 23:28.09 | fozzmoo | yep. |
| 23:28.53 | nicros | there was an 8 month waiting list to purchase a Honda NG last summer. wonder what it's like now. |
| 23:29.05 | fozzmoo | Yeah- my wife and I were looking. |
| 23:29.09 | fozzmoo | We almost bought a used one. |
| 23:29.22 | nicros | Dealerships in CA just had them sitting on the lots. |
| 23:29.30 | fozzmoo | But then we went to the Murray City filling station and waited 10 minutes for the equivalent of 1 gal of fuel. |
| 23:29.35 | *** join/#utah fortyseventeen (n=47teen@c-67-171-113-158.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.43 | fozzmoo | We paid our $0.70 cents and took the car back. :) |
| 23:29.46 | nicros | I would have bought a used one if people weren't asking 150% blue book value for them. |
| 23:29.52 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:30.01 | unum | looks like you can choose to pay %5 |
| 23:30.50 | nicros | I wonder how much they will sell the solar powered Prius for this year. |
| 23:32.57 | nicros | it's really just a prius with a solar powered ac unit. |
| 23:33.04 | JoshH | the conversion kits need to be cheaper, but still safe, and home fillup stations also need to be cheaper and easier to install |
| 23:33.26 | JoshH | and natural gas needs to remain cheaper than gasoline |
| 23:33.27 | nicros | the conversion kit isn't bad if you don't get the DOT approved version. |
| 23:33.47 | nicros | I can convert my Jeep for about 1,200 |
| 23:34.05 | nicros | the tanks are just too big. |
| 23:35.20 | nicros | i'm still working on my HHO generator. just need find the right frequency needed to split the water molecule and we'll be set. |
| 23:42.18 | sjansen | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/funny-pictures-kitten-claims-he-is-not-a-bobblehead.jpg |
| 23:42.19 | eightyeight | /http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/popculture/a359/zoom/ |
| 23:42.20 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: God Kills a LOLcat :: Zoom!] |
| 23:54.15 | maquis | wonders if eightyeight has a script running to post that every time anyone posts a lolcat |
| 23:54.37 | *** join/#utah Colrol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
