| 00:06.36 | tensai | I really dig rockbox |
| 00:07.15 | tensai | plays every media format known to man, has way more plugins than I could possibly need and the interface works great |
| 00:07.47 | tensai | the voice menus are great for when I'm in the car, or in case I ever poke my eyes out |
| 00:08.16 | tensai | I've had a few times where the database has gotten itself confused, but those are rare |
| 00:10.27 | levi | Grrrr, stupid phone. |
| 00:10.41 | Sargun | Grrrr, stupid levi. |
| 00:10.51 | levi | The Avaya phone at my desk doesn't answer when I pick up the handset. |
| 00:11.04 | Sargun | levi, Polycom |
| 00:11.14 | levi | Like I get to choose. |
| 00:11.56 | goozbach | geez "if you did this I'm refusing to help you anymore" |
| 00:12.20 | goozbach | sounds like most software support when they find out you're virtualizing windows or something |
| 00:12.59 | nobell | I'm selling my Openmoko Neo Freerunner. Anybody interested? If you haven't seen one yet - it's a full on open source phone. Runs on linux. Tons of features. |
| 00:13.15 | levi | nobell: How come you're selling it? |
| 00:13.35 | nobell | I thought I would have time to program it - but there are still a few features that aren't mature. |
| 00:13.52 | Sargun | nobell, I'll buy it for $50 |
| 00:13.52 | nobell | it still works good as a phone though, and makes a great little hand held linux computer. |
| 00:14.07 | Sargun | nobell, what rev do you have |
| 00:14.09 | nobell | haha. It's going for over 250 on ebay. |
| 00:14.20 | nobell | I have seen the buy it now stuff going for 500 |
| 00:14.26 | Sargun | I'd post to the community list |
| 00:14.30 | nobell | brand new it's 400 |
| 00:14.42 | Sargun | nobell, what rev do you have |
| 00:15.06 | nobell | what do you mean what rev? |
| 00:15.14 | nobell | gt02.. does that sound right? |
| 00:15.32 | nobell | or what distro of the os? I have FDOM on it. |
| 00:15.55 | Sargun | no.... |
| 00:16.00 | Sargun | A5, 6... |
| 00:16.06 | Sargun | and it's GTA |
| 00:16.12 | Sargun | I say you should buy 2 more. |
| 00:16.27 | nobell | I should buy 2 more? |
| 00:16.30 | nobell | why is that? |
| 00:16.46 | Sargun | It's good for the economy. |
| 00:17.01 | Sargun | And so you can buy one for levi, and another to give away at a PLUG meet |
| 00:17.08 | Sargun | for some insanely stupid competition. |
| 00:17.20 | Sargun | Like a programming while drunk competition. |
| 00:17.59 | nobell | sounds fun. Wish I could be such a benefactor to society - but I'll have to be like the rest of the consumers - buy it for a high price and either throw it away or sell it for cheep. |
| 00:18.47 | Sargun | Well, don't sell it, keep a piece of history |
| 00:18.47 | nobell | Or I could let it get dusty in my closet like the couple old pocket PCs that I have. |
| 00:18.54 | Sargun | I say you do that |
| 00:19.21 | nobell | I'll trade it for a G1. that's a piece of history. |
| 00:19.55 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@unaffiliated/jnbek) |
| 00:20.26 | levi | (and a phone that actually works. ;) ) |
| 00:20.35 | Sargun | levi, the FR works...sometimes |
| 00:20.43 | nobell | The Freerunner really does keep getting better. |
| 00:21.02 | nobell | has anybody here tried it with something other than OM? I wouldn't mind trying Android on it. |
| 00:21.13 | Sargun | nobell, I'm running debian on mine |
| 00:21.30 | nobell | How does it work as a phone and how much of the hardward does it support? |
| 00:21.42 | nobell | and can you actually hear people on it without a buzz? |
| 00:22.01 | nobell | the FDOM seems to work pretty good - but still glitchy. |
| 00:22.02 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 00:22.13 | Sargun | yeah |
| 00:22.26 | Sargun | I'm a volunteer on the OM project btw |
| 00:22.54 | nobell | that's good to know. I wouldn't mind contributing some stuff. |
| 00:23.19 | nobell | I would love to keep the phone if I can get the sound quality better on it. Does debian help a lot on it? |
| 00:24.18 | Sargun | nobell, No, not really.. I would do the a7 fix. Go to byu, and grab some sweaty grad student |
| 00:24.22 | Sargun | tell him to A7 the bitch. |
| 00:24.38 | nobell | What does that do for it? |
| 00:24.49 | harleypig | Sargun: sweaty grad student brings to mind some interesting images ... |
| 00:25.04 | nobell | does it make it so that I can charge it when the battery is fully dead? |
| 00:25.39 | Sargun | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/big-C_rework_SOP__DRAFT3__.pdf |
| 00:25.48 | Sargun | nobell, yes, yes, yes! |
| 00:34.14 | nobell | If I had a commodore, that would be a piece of history. |
| 00:34.50 | harleypig | I had a TRS-80 ... |
| 00:37.01 | Sargun | I had a System 36. |
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| 02:05.21 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 02:05.22 | ibot | overclocks elg until elg burns out |
| 02:05.22 | emcnabb | ~lart maquis |
| 02:05.22 | ibot | holds maquis to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails |
| 02:05.24 | elg | ~rlart emcnabb |
| 02:05.56 | elg | ~whack emcnabb |
| 02:05.57 | ibot | ACTION whacks emcnabb upside the head. |
| 02:18.19 | levi | Hey, wow, I just got an email saying I won the UK National Lottery! :P |
| 02:19.54 | Sargun_Screen | levi: god job. |
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| 03:34.08 | Sargun | ~onjoin -Sargun |
| 03:34.08 | ibot | Sargun: ok |
| 03:34.12 | *** part/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@75-101-13-24.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
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| 03:34.26 | Sargun | ~onjoin Sargun die |
| 03:34.26 | ibot | ok, Sargun |
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| 03:35.08 | Sargun | not so bad |
| 03:36.06 | Sargun | whoever did that... -_- |
| 03:36.49 | Sargun | o.O |
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| 03:50.50 | *** join/#utah saulfin (n=paulcama@dan0610.urh.uiuc.edu) |
| 03:55.24 | saulfin | hi |
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| 04:41.24 | levi | Hi. |
| 04:46.43 | emcnabb | saulfin, I see you're coming from a uiuc address |
| 04:46.55 | emcnabb | I'm from Champaign |
| 05:02.24 | fozzmoo | emcnabb: good to see you! |
| 05:02.41 | emcnabb | fozzmoo, and you too :-) |
| 05:02.47 | fozzmoo | How's life? |
| 05:04.15 | emcnabb | going well |
| 05:04.25 | emcnabb | the latest news is we have another kid on the way |
| 05:04.31 | fozzmoo | W00t. |
| 05:04.32 | emcnabb | besides that life is normal |
| 05:04.39 | emcnabb | fozzmoo, how are you doing? |
| 05:04.42 | fozzmoo | Where are you working these days? Still RHing it out? |
| 05:05.11 | fozzmoo | We're good. No kids on the way. We're done with three. 10, 8, and 5. |
| 05:05.33 | fozzmoo | I'm back to doing independent consulting. It's going well... better than ever before, actually. |
| 05:05.43 | fozzmoo | I'm RHCE now (finally). |
| 05:05.47 | fozzmoo | Did that about 4 months ago. |
| 05:06.18 | emcnabb | fozzmoo, sweet |
| 05:06.18 | emcnabb | yeah, I'm still here at Red Hat |
| 05:06.23 | emcnabb | well, it's late - I'm off to bed |
| 05:06.24 | Sargun | I need one of those snazzy RHCAs. |
| 05:06.24 | emcnabb | later |
| 05:06.31 | fozzmoo | emcnabb: See ya |
| 05:06.34 | Sargun | emcnabb, it's 01:06 isn't it? |
| 05:06.35 | emcnabb | I have 3/5 exams done for the RHCA |
| 05:06.41 | emcnabb | Sargun, midnight |
| 05:06.53 | Sargun | emcnabb, Ah, not _that_ late. |
| 05:15.45 | saulfin | wow, I guess that is kind of strange, being in a #utah channel |
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| 06:45.32 | harleypig | Isn't there a way to prevent a user login during specified time periods? |
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| 06:50.31 | Sargun | harleypig, pam |
| 06:56.58 | harleypig | Sargun: what keyword should I use ... I've tried variations on "pam prevent login" |
| 06:57.01 | harleypig | and not finding anything |
| 06:57.25 | Sargun | there is a module |
| 06:58.07 | harleypig | :] I figured it would be a module ... but I'm not finding anything ... which means I'm just being dense. |
| 06:58.59 | harleypig | ah ... maybe 'time control' |
| 06:59.55 | Sargun | haha |
| 07:30.23 | harleypig | hmm ... nothing that enforces a log out time though... |
| 07:34.50 | Sargun | harleypig, PAM isn't an "active" authentication metho |
| 07:36.08 | harleypig | I know |
| 07:36.12 | harleypig | just lamenting |
| 07:39.41 | harleypig | though ... this one article advocates using a crontab entry to run '/usr/bin/skill -KILL -u user' at the desired time ... that's ruthless. |
| 07:40.00 | harleypig | and doesn't account for backgrounded processes like screen |
| 07:42.26 | harleypig | the next project is to limit daily and weekly usage |
| 07:43.48 | harleypig | Sargun: are you familiar with the syntax for the time.conf file? |
| 07:44.00 | Sargun | No clue |
| 07:44.08 | Sargun | Do you want to idle out sessions? |
| 07:44.59 | harleypig | No, I want to prevent my younger children from logging between 2000 and 0800 |
| 07:45.28 | Sargun | they have SSH accounts? |
| 07:45.28 | harleypig | I thought I had the syntax right, but I'm still able to login using their account |
| 07:45.54 | harleypig | Sargun: they do, ... oh ... I'm trying to ssh, which is not the same as login|gdm|kdm ... |
| 07:46.23 | Sargun | oh |
| 07:46.27 | harleypig | feh ... login|gdm|kdm|ssh still doesn't work. |
| 07:46.28 | Sargun | Are you trying to block SSH |
| 07:46.56 | harleypig | I'm trying to block any way of logging in during those times. |
| 07:47.28 | Supaplex | harleypig: /etc/security/time.conf |
| 07:47.29 | Sargun | on their local machines? |
| 07:47.34 | harleypig | yeah |
| 07:47.53 | harleypig | login|gdm|kdm|ssh ; * ; jimmy|robert|patrick ; Al2000-0800 |
| 07:48.16 | Sargun | you could just chmod 000 /home/patrick |
| 07:48.17 | Sargun | in crontab |
| 07:48.46 | harleypig | No, they can still login, they just don't get their desktop the way they want it. |
| 07:49.02 | Sargun | ok, passwd -l and passwd --unlock |
| 07:49.16 | Sargun | They wont get kicked out while in an active session |
| 07:49.20 | Supaplex | or iptables -I OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner userid -j DROP |
| 07:49.23 | Sargun | that's where you just lock their screen. |
| 07:49.34 | Sargun | Supaplex, What happens if they ware trying to play local games? |
| 07:49.49 | Supaplex | just tossing some ideas out there. |
| 07:50.10 | harleypig | I don't want them logging in at all ... I've kicked them off the computers at 3am for the last time. |
| 07:51.00 | Sargun | harleypig, Dude, they're running hacker hours. |
| 07:51.46 | harleypig | I know. My 7 year old keeps asking me questions like "What's your middle name?", "When were you born?" :D |
| 07:51.56 | Sargun | HAhaha |
| 07:52.10 | Supaplex | "dad" "before you" |
| 07:52.12 | Sargun | harleypig, but what happens if they're compiling code, and you shutdown their session |
| 07:52.14 | harleypig | My logs show he's getting more sophisticated in his hacking attempts. |
| 07:52.21 | Sargun | haha |
| 07:52.34 | harleypig | I'm not going to do the kill part. |
| 07:53.00 | Sargun | harleypig, I recommend xscreensaver-command --lock + passwd -l + passwd -u |
| 07:53.07 | harleypig | But I do want to make logging in impossible for them ... I think I'll give the passwd -l a try. |
| 07:53.13 | Sargun | + anacron |
| 07:53.21 | Sargun | harleypig, you want anacron |
| 07:53.37 | Supaplex | and a tazer |
| 07:53.42 | harleypig | why that over fcron? |
| 07:53.44 | Sargun | And an axe |
| 07:53.45 | harleypig | heh |
| 07:53.52 | Supaplex | wired to the seat "Don't you dare login, or else!" |
| 07:54.01 | Sargun | harleypig, that'll work too. Just not plain vixie |
| 07:54.06 | levi | Login failure should trigger a "Go to bed!" sound effect. |
| 07:54.14 | Sargun | levi, haha |
| 07:54.19 | Sargun | We're evil. |
| 07:54.34 | harleypig | That'd be funny. :> |
| 07:54.46 | Sargun | Or send a pager message |
| 07:54.51 | Sargun | to you |
| 07:54.58 | Sargun | and you should get a big red phone |
| 07:55.00 | Supaplex | txtmsg |
| 07:55.02 | Sargun | and make it ring |
| 07:55.13 | harleypig | Naw ... at least not right away. I don't want to have to wake up. |
| 07:55.19 | Sargun | Supaplex, No, Whose going to pickup the big red phone at 2 AM, when it matters? |
| 07:55.28 | harleypig | Of course, next thing I need to do is block the tv somehow. |
| 07:55.33 | Sargun | Supaplex, (Hilary Clinton commerical...) |
| 07:55.38 | Sargun | harleypig, Toss out the TV? |
| 07:56.16 | Supaplex | tip toes over to harleypig's house, and flips the breaker - now everyone can sleep. HAH. ;) |
| 07:56.40 | harleypig | Sargun: it's getting really tempting ... and I could use that extra $50/month too. |
| 07:56.52 | Supaplex | humm... won't work in my house. I have a few ups'z now. :) |
| 07:56.55 | harleypig | I won't be affected by it ... I d/l everything I watch. |
| 07:56.57 | Sargun | harleypig, We disconnected our cable, we got Netflix + Faster DSL. |
| 07:57.10 | Sargun | harleypig, Mhmm, Porn over DSL > Porn over Cable :-P |
| 07:57.15 | harleypig | :D |
| 07:57.44 | levi | HDHR + mythtv + antenna + bittorrent > Cable |
| 07:58.05 | Sargun | levi, haha |
| 07:58.46 | harleypig | hmmm ... these computers are turned off until they are used ... will anacron|fcron run jobs that haven't been run yet on bootup? |
| 07:59.31 | Sargun | anacron I know can schedule "old" jobs |
| 07:59.40 | Sargun | harleypig, I would unlock the account on bootup |
| 08:00.00 | harleypig | that doesn't work if they're turning the computer on at 3am. |
| 08:00.13 | Sargun | harleypig, or have a command that runs during the day passwd -u |
| 08:00.13 | levi | IIRC, Windows provides time-specific login locks by default. ;) |
| 08:00.18 | Sargun | and then passwd -l at night |
| 08:00.18 | harleypig | I mean ... that won't prevent them from logging at 3am. |
| 08:00.37 | Sargun | harleypig, and if they log in before it gets locked, run xscreensaver-command --lock every minute too. |
| 08:00.41 | Sargun | at night |
| 08:01.47 | harleypig | That'd work for two of them, but the 7 year old is comfortable enough on the command line. And he knows about Ctrl-Alt-F# |
| 08:02.01 | levi | You just need a script that runs early in the boot process that checks the time and sets login access appropriately. Then you need a regular cron job at the logout time to disable login access. |
| 08:02.05 | Sargun | harleypig, what could he do on the command line |
| 08:02.43 | harleypig | he can still play games, granted, they're ascii games. But the point is, I don't want them to be able to do anything on the computer at all. |
| 08:02.52 | Sargun | harleypig, if you have the passwd -l run every minute, you think he could ctrl+alt+F1 and then login, and killall xscreensaver all in 60 seconds? |
| 08:03.26 | harleypig | The 7 year olds going to learn about linux single any day now ... I can feel it. |
| 08:03.45 | Sargun | uhm. |
| 08:03.54 | Sargun | I hope he doesn't over take me... |
| 08:03.59 | Sargun | Well, he probably will. |
| 08:04.01 | levi | You need to password-protect your bootloader and disable booting from removable media. |
| 08:04.15 | Sargun | levi is right |
| 08:04.16 | levi | And lock the computer case. :) |
| 08:04.18 | harleypig | Sargun: no ... but he likes to hack ... he's just as happy experimenting with commands. I don't want them to be able to log in at all. |
| 08:04.24 | harleypig | and unplug the computer. |
| 08:04.34 | Sargun | harleypig, disable all the TTYs. |
| 08:04.48 | Sargun | harleypig, at least disable them on your default runlevel |
| 08:05.07 | harleypig | ok, let me rephrase that ... I don't want them to be able to login at all between 2000 and 0800 |
| 08:05.53 | levi | You also need to make sure they can't get into the BIOS and change the system clock there. |
| 08:06.04 | harleypig | So, I'm back to having something that runs periodically, and since these machines are turned on and off ... |
| 08:06.07 | harleypig | :D |
| 08:06.35 | levi | Like I said, you only need to have a cron job that runs at the cutoff times and another job that runs early in the boot process. |
| 08:06.51 | harleypig | I'll worry about that when it happens ... :> |
| 08:07.07 | Sargun | harleypig, I say keep running passwd -l every 60 seconds between 2000 and 0800, then disable the TTYs on the system at the same runlevel, lock the X screen if it's running, make sure ntp is running, password your grub, password your bios, disable all bootable media |
| 08:07.18 | Sargun | and stick a radioactive isotope in the case |
| 08:07.30 | harleypig | levi: yeah ... I didn't think about the boot process part |
| 08:07.42 | harleypig | Sargun: why run passwd -l every 60 seconds? |
| 08:08.18 | Sargun | harleypig, because, let's say the kid opens a console, and then changes their passwd after a passwd -l, but before a xscreensaver-command --lock |
| 08:08.50 | Sargun | If they kill xscreensaver |
| 08:09.44 | harleypig | uh ... they shouldn't be able to get to either a console or x session |
| 08:10.01 | Sargun | you disabled ttys. |
| 08:10.13 | harleypig | if passwd -l has been run they shouldn't be able to login at all right? |
| 08:10.26 | Sargun | harleypig, they would have a window of opportunity about 60 seconds wide, to hack the system |
| 08:10.36 | harleypig | whether from a console prompt or [kg]dm prompt |
| 08:10.38 | Sargun | right after 2000 |
| 08:10.44 | Supaplex | if passwd -l is run, I doubt they could change their password. how would it compare? |
| 08:10.49 | levi | About 15 minutes before 2000, have it wall and do some sort of X notification that it's time to log off. Then, at the appointed time, automatically shut the system down. If they turn it back on, the pre-prompt bootup script will disable logins. |
| 08:10.50 | Sargun | No, but if they're still logged in |
| 08:11.11 | Sargun | levi, but what if they're doing something important |
| 08:11.24 | levi | They've got 15 minutes to save it. |
| 08:11.40 | Sargun | levi, what if they're compiling open office |
| 08:11.43 | harleypig | oh ... I see ... no. Bedtime is around 2000 ... if they're still logged in after 2000 they won't be for long. Family prayer, then bed time. |
| 08:11.44 | levi | So what? |
| 08:12.05 | Sargun | harleypig, you mean, you'll log them out? |
| 08:12.15 | harleypig | The computers are turned off at night as part of the nightly routine. |
| 08:12.18 | harleypig | yeah |
| 08:12.19 | Sargun | harleypig, do you use 24-hour time with your kids? |
| 08:12.27 | harleypig | both |
| 08:12.34 | Sargun | harleypig, Ah, have it start passwd -l'ing at 2000, that way it can't log back in. |
| 08:12.49 | Sargun | and passwd -u afterwards |
| 08:12.56 | Supaplex | I just tried changing my password after passwd -l supaplex was run. I'm still logged in. It fails to authenticate to the (current) UNIX password: |
| 08:13.03 | Sargun | just make sure you secure the boot process |
| 08:13.15 | Sargun | Supaplex, if they have a valid sudo cookie |
| 08:13.26 | levi | Why would they have sudo cookies? |
| 08:13.34 | harleypig | yeah, they don't have sudo |
| 08:13.35 | harleypig | :] |
| 08:14.10 | harleypig | but ... instead of worrying about the boot process, just run a quick script via crontab every minute, check the status for each user and change if necessary |
| 08:14.32 | levi | Sargun is clearly coming at this 'lock the kids out of the computer' thing from a different perspective. ;) |
| 08:14.36 | Sargun | harleypig, I think you should just setup a passwd -l between 2000 and 0800 (every 60 seconds), so if the computer was shutdown at 1959, and then booted up at 2001, it wouldn't cause any problems... |
| 08:14.40 | Supaplex | ponders chattr +i /etc/shadow* |
| 08:14.51 | Sargun | Supaplex, you could brick the system that way |
| 08:15.10 | Sargun | attributes have all sorts of weird side-affects |
| 08:15.10 | Sargun | effects |
| 08:15.55 | Sargun | harleypig, then have it start passwd -u'ing at 0800 to 2000 |
| 08:16.06 | Supaplex | well, nothing a recovery cd can't fix. :) at worst. |
| 08:16.37 | Sargun | Well, possible attack vectors: -Harleypig forgets to log them out of ttys/X |
| 08:16.49 | Sargun | -They circumvent it using GRUB/Single user mode |
| 08:16.50 | levi | Running a little script at bootup along with a couple of enable/disable cron jobs at the appropriate times seems to me to be the cleanest way to do this. |
| 08:16.55 | Sargun | -They use a boot script |
| 08:17.44 | harleypig | not even bootup ... run a script once a minute to check the status of the desired account using passwd -S user |
| 08:18.02 | levi | Running scripts once a minute seems wrong to me. :) |
| 08:18.04 | harleypig | if the time frame is 2000 - 0800 and the status is not L then lock the passwd |
| 08:18.16 | Supaplex | I'm with levi. |
| 08:19.14 | harleypig | Why? |
| 08:19.27 | harleypig | I've run quite a number of jobs every minute at every job I've worked at and had no problems. |
| 08:19.30 | Sargun | anyways, bets on how long it takes kids to break into the system? |
| 08:19.34 | harleypig | heh |
| 08:19.36 | Supaplex | if the back door is so weak you have to close it once a minute, it's time for a new door. |
| 08:19.50 | levi | Because boot time and the cutoff times are the only important times. Running once a minute is silly. |
| 08:20.02 | Sargun | I say within the next 3 years. |
| 08:20.08 | harleypig | Not closing it every minute, checking it every minute and closing it if necessary. |
| 08:21.14 | levi | Does the login prompt at the console pop up less than a minute after cron starts? |
| 08:21.34 | harleypig | no idea, but I doubt it. |
| 08:21.42 | Sargun | levi, no, harleypig will make sure they're logged out |
| 08:21.43 | harleypig | these are old systems |
| 08:21.46 | levi | You don't even have to think about that if you just run the script at boot time. |
| 08:21.50 | Sargun | levi, and we're disabling ttys |
| 08:21.51 | Supaplex | rc.local runs before init @ boot/startup ends. |
| 08:24.47 | harleypig | thx ... you've given me some good ideas ... now I have to go to bed. |
| 08:24.50 | harleypig | g'night |
| 08:25.01 | Supaplex | sweet dreams. :) |
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| 15:35.12 | Sargun_Screen | jsmith: |
| 15:35.14 | Sargun_Screen | yt? |
| 15:35.29 | jsmith | Sargun_Screen: Guilty as charged... what's up? |
| 15:36.31 | Sargun_Screen | Do you know anything about Asterisk Skype channel, and when it'll be publically released? |
| 15:38.01 | Sargun_Screen | Additionally, thanks for the SS7 contact, I found someone willing to give me SIGTRAN access |
| 15:49.06 | jsmith | Sargun_Screen: The Skype channel driver is currently in limited beta, but should hopefully be publicly available in the next few months. I don't have any more details than that |
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| 15:56.37 | harleypig | Can I nest tests in bash like this? if [ [ $hour -lt 8 ] -or [ $hour -gt 19 ] ] |
| 15:57.43 | goozbach | harleypig: I think it's done with parens |
| 15:58.03 | goozbach | if [ (test one) -or (test two) ] |
| 15:58.13 | goozbach | the ABS is great for questions like this |
| 15:58.42 | goozbach | http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ |
| 15:58.46 | harleypig | no that errors out |
| 15:58.55 | harleypig | thx, I'd forgotten about that |
| 16:04.52 | harleypig | ouch ... if (( (( $hour < 8 )) || (( $hour > 19 )) )) |
| 16:05.04 | harleypig | and people say perl is annyoing |
| 16:05.20 | goozbach | bash is uber powerful |
| 16:05.40 | harleypig | so is perl |
| 16:05.46 | goozbach | I've been playing a lot with bash lately |
| 16:05.56 | levi | bash is freaking lame as a programming language |
| 16:06.01 | levi | And not so hot as a shell |
| 16:06.14 | goozbach | I found an abandodned getops library, which I fixed up and it's awesome |
| 16:06.44 | goozbach | been writing pure bash programs and such. it's fun. |
| 16:07.05 | levi | In the same way that writing brainf**k programs is fun, sure. :P |
| 16:07.32 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@66.151.148.225) |
| 16:08.59 | tensai | yum is pretty cool, even for an apt junkie like me |
| 16:09.25 | harleypig | omg ... indirect references in bash ... perl's redheaded step brother |
| 16:10.22 | harleypig | feh ... how do I loop through an array? |
| 16:12.37 | levi | Why are you writing a bash program? |
| 16:13.07 | goozbach | harleypig: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=bash+loop+through+array |
| 16:13.08 | brac | [Let me google that for you] |
| 16:13.20 | harleypig | I was looking the abs |
| 16:13.40 | harleypig | levi: I was hoping it would be faster than writing it in perl |
| 16:13.59 | harleypig | because if I wrote it in perl I'd want to add on all kinds of doodads and geegaws |
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| 16:14.32 | levi | And by writing it in shell, you would be smashing your forehead against the desk and trying to claw your eyes out. Nice tradeoff. ;) |
| 16:14.50 | goozbach | I'm up to 21000 emails in my inbox now |
| 16:14.55 | goozbach | stupid cronjob which blew up |
| 16:15.01 | goozbach | queued up gobs of email |
| 16:15.08 | goozbach | I can't kill them fast enough |
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| 16:28.44 | Sargun | stupid cron job boom |
| 16:28.44 | Sargun | queued up gobs of email now |
| 16:28.44 | Sargun | cannot kill them all |
| 16:29.38 | goozbach | are you mocking me? |
| 16:29.42 | goozbach | wtf is that? |
| 16:30.11 | ^Migs^ | http://notalwaysright.com/thievers-cant-be-choosers/1399 |
| 16:30.56 | Sargun | goozbach, Haiku. |
| 16:32.49 | Jayce^ | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Motivatedphotos/~3/510501567/ just for you goozbach |
| 16:35.53 | goozbach | so here's an exercise: |
| 16:36.13 | goozbach | you have approx 50000 emails queued up in your postfix mail queue |
| 16:36.31 | goozbach | the vast majority of those are destined to root@example.com |
| 16:37.00 | goozbach | your email address is an alias to root@example.com... which means that you'll soon be floating in email |
| 16:37.17 | goozbach | how do you kill all the messages from the mailq before they get delivered? |
| 16:37.24 | goozbach | answer after the break |
| 16:38.58 | Sargun | rm -rf /var/spool/mail |
| 16:40.11 | goozbach | sargun, you can't do that as you still need to deliver the valid email |
| 16:40.20 | goozbach | mailq | grep root@example.net | grep '^[^ ]' | cut -d '*' -f 1 | xargs -n 1 postsuper -d |
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| 16:51.33 | ^Migs^ | LOL http://notalwaysright.com/geography-my-arch-nemesis-we-meet-again/1376 |
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| 17:08.22 | goozbach | ^Migs^: http://notalwaysright.com/more-frisky-than-frail/782 |
| 17:10.14 | ^Migs^ | BWAHAHAHA |
| 17:16.20 | sjansen | http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Band%252dIt-Magnetic-Band-Black/dp/B000ICT8OY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1231866902&sr=1-2 <-- Quite the fashion statement. |
| 17:18.42 | Jayce^ | odd, yet vaguely awesome... |
| 17:21.12 | high_roller | what happens if you are working around lots of steel? |
| 17:21.20 | high_roller | would you keep getting stuck? |
| 17:25.10 | high_roller | or how many hard drives would that mess up if you used in the server room? |
| 17:36.14 | harleypig | ^Migs^: thanks ever so much for the link to not always right ... one more thing to add to the tidal wave |
| 17:36.34 | ^Migs^ | I'm loving this site |
| 17:42.42 | Sargun | Man, the secretary is so hot. |
| 17:42.53 | ^Migs^ | pics or ban |
| 17:42.57 | harleypig | get her some ice then |
| 17:43.12 | Sargun | beats harleypig |
| 17:43.19 | Sargun | ^Migs^, do you even have +O? |
| 17:43.30 | harleypig | bites his tongue |
| 17:43.42 | ^Migs^ | not right now... |
| 17:43.51 | Sargun | ^Migs^, she probably wont let me take a pic of her...or with her |
| 17:43.57 | ^Migs^ | I was kidding anyway |
| 17:44.15 | ^Migs^ | I always like to blurt out "pics or ban" randomly at least once a day |
| 17:44.49 | Sargun | oh... |
| 17:44.56 | Sargun | Did I make an idiot of myself then? |
| 17:45.14 | Sargun | Man, I wouldn't mind a pic with her... |
| 17:46.49 | Sargun | Her employee directory picture is ugly. |
| 17:52.26 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:55.13 | fozzmoo | "We're decorating the front desk for... Valentines day. I wanted to get some pictures of it now so we know what we're working with." |
| 17:55.58 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:56.50 | maquis | fozzmoo: lol |
| 17:57.05 | fozzmoo | Stuff like that worked for me in HS. :) |
| 17:57.25 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.54 | fozzmoo | Bring in some 8-yr old kids from a foreign country... |
| 17:58.21 | fozzmoo | Eh... too much effort. |
| 17:59.26 | fozzmoo | Okay. I recommend a spy cam. |
| 17:59.27 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 17:59.36 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:59.41 | fozzmoo | Or maybe something on a Roomba. |
| 17:59.51 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:00.06 | fozzmoo | Or, as a last resort, a RC car. |
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| 18:02.20 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:04.33 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:06.56 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:07.38 | sjansen | Sargun: Adding a space in front of your comments may keep them out of the log, but we're still going to remember that you confessed a love of The Backstreet Boys. |
| 18:08.12 | Sargun | -_- |
| 18:10.45 | maquis | Sargun: lol |
| 18:11.53 | maquis | sjansen: go easy on Sargun. i'm sure when i was that age, i liked the backstreet boys too... |
| 18:11.57 | maquis | :P |
| 18:12.10 | Sargun | I am going to kill you guys. :-P |
| 18:13.16 | maquis | Sargun: just helping you get in character... |
| 18:15.32 | Sargun | tensai, Did you read the Cogent Haiku on NANOG-ML? |
| 18:15.43 | tensai | Sargun: I did. I was unimpressed. |
| 18:15.55 | tensai | not that I care much for cogent of course |
| 18:16.00 | Sargun | It only represented fail for tensai? |
| 18:16.42 | tensai | rhyming words does not a poem make. same for meter and haiku. |
| 18:16.55 | sjansen | I think that I shall never see |
| 18:17.03 | sjansen | A poem as lovely as SCO defeated |
| 18:17.25 | maquis | applauds sjansen |
| 18:17.45 | tensai | just discovered that a server of mine has 3500+ iptables rules |
| 18:17.49 | tensai | that seems a bit excessive |
| 18:18.00 | Sargun | tensai, Did you know there is a limit |
| 18:18.04 | Sargun | to the number of rules? |
| 18:18.45 | tensai | clearly the limit is more than 3500 |
| 18:18.51 | Sargun | yes... |
| 18:22.31 | Sargun | tensai, What kind of firewalls are you guys using to filter customer traffic? |
| 18:31.19 | tensai | Sargun: some ingress and egress filters at the edge. ingress filters on our bandwidth shapers at the customer end. we stick to the bare minimum on filtering. |
| 18:31.38 | elg | why so many rules? |
| 18:32.04 | elg | tensai: i was reading about some newfangled (relatively) thing called IMF that's supposed to supplant IMQ and is in the kernel (IMQ isn't) |
| 18:32.19 | elg | ever played with it? |
| 18:32.55 | Sargun | tensai, Ah, what are you doing it on? |
| 18:33.58 | elg | do you dare me to wipe macports and start fresh? |
| 18:34.10 | sjansen | Why would anyone want to put the International Monetary Fund in the kernel? That doesn't even make sense. |
| 18:34.27 | elg | I'm tempted. I don't like libraries that aren't used floating around and macports doesn't yet have a way to uninstall stuff that was installed for dependencies but isn't necessary anymore |
| 18:34.33 | fozzmoo | sjansen: A socialist agenda, of course. |
| 18:34.49 | elg | otoh, that would be a lot of compiling to get back up to speed (octave, gnucash, wireshark, various unix tools) |
| 18:35.45 | tensai | elg: never played with IMF, that I know of |
| 18:35.55 | elg | oh, it's not imf |
| 18:35.58 | elg | it's IFB |
| 18:36.07 | elg | maybe I watch too much mission impossible |
| 18:36.09 | tensai | elg: why so many firewall rules? cpanel was automatically adding them. |
| 18:36.15 | elg | awesome :) |
| 18:36.25 | elg | http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Net:IFB |
| 18:37.08 | elg | now that my linux box is my gateway and not my openwrt router, i need to revamp my qos scripts |
| 18:37.54 | Sargun | Impossible Mission Force! |
| 18:37.56 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Not so. As we've just seen it was nothing more than Fugal propaganda to maintain their unnatural raffle advantage. |
| 18:37.58 | elg | i did a bandwidth test (i.e. download/upload some big torrents overnight) and i found that my limits were very flat plateaus in the graphs |
| 18:38.37 | elg | that's encouraging - might mean that (at least that one evning) my network bandwidth is limited only by policy not by neighborhood crowding |
| 18:38.39 | Sargun | elg, yes...? |
| 18:38.47 | *** join/#utah sondial (n=cubical1@71-37-100-143.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:38.58 | elg | which means if i tak 90% of that as my qos threshold i should have nice results |
| 18:39.20 | elg | with dsl, it was up and down. i had a threshold, in the average, but it wasn't a clean plateau |
| 18:39.32 | elg | and it wasn't up to the nominal speed advertised, which isn't uncommon |
| 18:40.02 | elg | so picking a qos threshold that's low enough that you remain the bottleneck, without losing half of your potential bandwidth, is more of a compromise |
| 18:40.29 | sondial | where are all the linux 'programmers' with the entrepreneurial spirit? |
| 18:40.47 | elg | in cubicals |
| 18:40.52 | elg | using qwest |
| 18:42.15 | sondial | and after they are all laid off and want to form companies? |
| 18:42.18 | levi | So hungry, yet stuck in class. :/ |
| 18:42.27 | fozzmoo | Sargun: You still around? |
| 18:43.23 | fozzmoo | Sargun: I think you should hire someone to deliver you a package and dress up in as a Package Express deliveryman. Have the hot receptionist sign for it an take her picture. |
| 18:43.47 | tensai | elg: you too funny |
| 18:44.03 | elg | levi: eat your ipod |
| 18:44.16 | fozzmoo | elg++ |
| 18:44.38 | tensai | ~elg++ |
| 18:44.44 | elg | ~tensai++ |
| 18:44.50 | elg | ~fozzmoo++ |
| 18:44.52 | elg | ~brac++ |
| 18:44.53 | elg | ~ibot-- |
| 18:44.59 | elg | -chat where are |
| 18:44.59 | brac | where are you talking about? |
| 18:45.29 | elg | was that a troll? i couldn't tell |
| 18:45.33 | sjansen | What, no ++ for me? |
| 18:45.35 | sjansen | pouts |
| 18:45.36 | fozzmoo | Sargun: When the Palm Tree comes out... |
| 18:45.39 | elg | ~sjansen+=3 |
| 18:45.52 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Show her all the cool features, including the 3MP camera! |
| 18:46.59 | maquis | -chat elg is |
| 18:46.59 | brac | elg is looking up the openvpn server on the open source now that she's an aged outspoken ultra-liberal pseudo-feminist ... not so much as held a violin. |
| 18:47.12 | fozzmoo | blinks |
| 18:47.28 | maquis | elg: i didn't know that you were an aged outspoken ultra-liberal pseud-feminist.... |
| 18:47.29 | elg | smacks a big one on openvpn |
| 18:47.49 | elg | maquis: you learn something new every day |
| 18:47.56 | maquis | you're female? |
| 18:48.01 | maquis | -chat fozzmoo is |
| 18:48.01 | brac | fozzmoo is in a way, that's fine because you're famous, doesn't mean you're infallible. |
| 18:48.10 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 18:48.12 | maquis | fozz is famous? |
| 18:48.13 | fozzmoo | breaks a leg |
| 18:48.19 | elg | are you implying you have to be female to be pseudo-feminist? how sexist |
| 18:48.21 | Sargun | fozzmoo, That's true... except the part where I freeze up around people, and start babbling like an idiot. |
| 18:48.34 | maquis | elg: no... i'm referring to the fact that brac referred to you as a "she" |
| 18:48.42 | fozzmoo | Sargun: But you'd have your phone... you could go on babbling. |
| 18:48.45 | maquis | -chat Sargun is |
| 18:48.45 | brac | Sargun is primarily found in Turkey and India undergrads going on here. I need to warm to confuse tomatoes in November is scary |
| 18:48.48 | elg | or openvpn is a she |
| 18:48.59 | Sargun | elg, OpenVPN is quite nice, I agree. |
| 18:49.06 | elg | ain't you heard of anthropomorphization? |
| 18:49.15 | elg | ~spell anthropomorphization |
| 18:49.20 | maquis | elg: the sentence structure doesn't make me think of that... |
| 18:49.29 | levi | Hmm, my mom just joined Facebook. That seems slightly weird. |
| 18:49.31 | elg | preconceived notions i guess |
| 18:49.36 | maquis | -chat levi is |
| 18:49.36 | brac | levi is right there. |
| 18:49.41 | maquis | -chat tensai is |
| 18:49.42 | brac | tensai is currently on #utos (11h 7m 50s), last said: 'decriptor: why, you want to extol the virtues of sweet potato pie, but sweet potato pie before I chose "Better off alone" for both of us should declare its independence from England |
| 18:49.47 | elg | i was talking to my 1st cousin once removed (older than my dad) the other day and he's on facebook |
| 18:50.14 | maquis | tensai: you want to explain what you were saying there? |
| 18:50.17 | levi | Anthropomorphization is the awesomest. |
| 18:50.26 | Sargun | my python awesomeness: dict(map((lambda x: x.split("=")), d[11:][1:-1].split("%"))) |
| 18:50.32 | Sargun | It's Perlthon. |
| 18:50.48 | tensai | maquis: I think it speaks for itself |
| 18:50.55 | Sargun | levi, how old is your mother. |
| 18:51.00 | maquis | tensai: ah... |
| 18:51.14 | levi | Old enough to be my mother. |
| 18:51.28 | maquis | levi: that's a good thing |
| 18:51.34 | Sargun | -_- |
| 18:51.34 | levi | Indeed. |
| 18:51.41 | tensai | I think it's impressive that brac managed to close his quotes |
| 18:54.14 | elg | -chat my python |
| 18:54.14 | brac | my python awesomeness: dict(map((lambda x: x.split("=")), d[11:][1:-1].split("%"))) |
| 18:54.21 | elg | brac can program |
| 18:54.28 | elg | -chat it speaks |
| 18:54.28 | brac | it speaks for itself |
| 18:54.33 | elg | -chat how old |
| 18:54.33 | brac | how old is having with lobbyists |
| 18:54.39 | elg | -chat old enough |
| 18:54.39 | brac | old enough to be all friendly and cool. |
| 18:54.41 | fozzmoo | Oh dear. |
| 18:55.11 | maquis | -chat brac is |
| 18:55.11 | brac | brac is dumb |
| 18:55.17 | sjansen | -chat levi's mom |
| 18:55.17 | brac | levi's mom |
| 18:55.19 | maquis | -chat ibot is |
| 18:55.19 | brac | ibot is confused methinks |
| 18:55.34 | sjansen | Why does brac hate me so much? |
| 18:55.40 | elg | -chat why does |
| 18:55.40 | brac | why does a happy sjansen |
| 18:55.42 | maquis | -chat sjansen is |
| 18:55.42 | brac | sjansen is still in denial about how expensive it is funny because they are all nuts |
| 18:55.43 | sjansen | brac: Is it because I had you /ignored for so long? |
| 18:55.54 | elg | -chat i ignored |
| 18:55.54 | brac | i ignored a call from a business acct |
| 18:56.05 | elg | -chat i missed |
| 18:56.05 | brac | i missed one question by the free enterprise couldn't. just that some jerk sent me |
| 18:56.13 | maquis | sjansen: he still remembers how you treated brigham |
| 18:56.25 | elg | -nick bracky |
| 18:56.25 | brac | elg, you don't have 'config::nick' permissions here |
| 18:56.28 | sjansen | ~spank brac |
| 18:56.29 | ibot | ACTION bends brac over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on brac's pasty white buttocks. |
| 18:59.12 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@c-76-113-14-195.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.28 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 18:59.28 | brac | pokes sjansen in the eye |
| 18:59.31 | levi | Ahh, atoponce and ESR. |
| 18:59.52 | Sargun | atoponce = eightyeight |
| 19:00.03 | levi | I know. |
| 19:00.32 | levi | I'm referring to his recently posted blog entry. |
| 19:01.24 | levi | Comparing proprietary software to slavery. ESR is so classy! |
| 19:03.33 | sjansen | levi: How much time have you spent as a sysadmin? |
| 19:04.09 | levi | sjansen: For pay, or of my own systems? |
| 19:06.36 | sjansen | Pay, specifically supporting proprietary software you didn't recommend. |
| 19:06.39 | goozbach | levi: for pay, responsibilty for other's paychecks, using only proprietary software |
| 19:07.37 | levi | I did it for around a year. I hated it, but I hated administering free software systems I didn't select, too. |
| 19:07.51 | levi | sjansen: So, how much time have you spent as a slave? |
| 19:10.53 | levi | I think the level of indignity and suffering might be on a whole other scale, don't you? |
| 19:11.07 | sjansen | ~dict hyperbole |
| 19:11.17 | sjansen | ~define hyperbole |
| 19:11.18 | ibot | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 19:11.47 | levi | There's hyperbole, and then there's crassness. |
| 19:12.54 | levi | Comparing proprietary software to slavery is a much of a lose as comparing X to Hitler. |
| 19:14.28 | levi | If you think dealing with proprietary software is that bad, you need to grow a freaking backbone. Dealing with complex free software ain't a walk in the park either, and I'd say sometimes it's worse. |
| 19:14.37 | redbeard2 | correct me if i'm wrong, but DNS itself doesn't actually have a method for setting up a redirect, does it? |
| 19:15.56 | elg | but X is like hitler! |
| 19:16.09 | elg | redbeard2: redirect what? |
| 19:17.12 | redbeard2 | elg: we have an internal dns server, that one of our programmers wants to use to redirect myspace requests to some other (undetermined) site |
| 19:17.23 | sjansen | levi: Free software, no matter how complex, is significantly different for one major reason: the customer is empowered to take their business elsewhere. |
| 19:17.32 | redbeard2 | we just blocked it at the firewall level, but he thinks it would be funny to set up a redirect |
| 19:18.08 | levi | sjansen: Sometimes, and sometimes that's the case with proprietary software, too. |
| 19:18.10 | sjansen | Unlike proprietary software, it is impossible for free software companies to demand contract with the same lack of ethics or respect. |
| 19:18.56 | levi | So, you seem to be decrying the evils of unethical contracts rather than proprietary software. |
| 19:19.11 | levi | So, don't use proprietary software that involves those kinds of contracts. |
| 19:19.12 | elg | redbeard2: you could redirect all traffic to *.myspace.com to another site if you wanted |
| 19:19.24 | elg | assuming they are using your dns server as their dns server |
| 19:19.32 | elg | but it would be all traffic, not just web |
| 19:19.40 | elg | there's also a (possibly transparent) web proxy |
| 19:19.44 | goozbach | redbeard2: you just have to have complete control over their forwarding DNS server |
| 19:19.44 | elg | as a possibility |
| 19:20.01 | goozbach | eg you run the dns server which is in their resolv.conf file |
| 19:20.15 | goozbach | then you can "short circut" any domain you want. |
| 19:20.16 | redbeard2 | elg: they are using our dns server... most of the people don't have the technical proficiency to change their own dns server |
| 19:20.33 | goozbach | and forward the rest out to the DNS tree |
| 19:20.49 | elg | so you would have to set up a zone file so your dns server can act authoritatively for that zone |
| 19:21.34 | redbeard2 | so, i can monkey with the IP, but i can't set up an actual "redirect", right? |
| 19:21.35 | sjansen | levi: Hence the source of my question. Management is less averse to agreeing to unethical restrictions because they don't experience the pain directly. |
| 19:21.45 | elg | redbeard2: right. unless you use a web proxy |
| 19:21.59 | elg | you can make myspace.com/foo/bar/baz.html go to example.com/foo/bar/baz.html |
| 19:22.17 | elg | with the name myspace.com (so it wouldn't work for a name-based vhost on the far end) |
| 19:22.18 | redbeard2 | yeah, we've talking about setting up squid, but we don't have the time right now |
| 19:22.34 | goozbach | squid transparent proxy would be best |
| 19:22.54 | sjansen | Take, for example, Blackboard. When I worked for BYU, Blackboard owned all content put into the database. It was created by BYU employees, but could only be used according to Blackboard's terms. |
| 19:23.09 | goozbach | dns redirecting the IP address to a web server you control, and a vhost with redirect setup the way you want |
| 19:23.17 | goozbach | that would be fairly simple |
| 19:23.19 | levi | sjansen: You're constructing a specific scenario in which using proprietary software can go awry. ESR and atoponce are saying they'll NEVER choose proprietary software because it's universally bad, or something like that. |
| 19:23.45 | sjansen | levi: Uhm... in case you haven't noticed that quote has been my sig for a couple weeks. |
| 19:24.03 | levi | sjansen: You suck too, then. :) |
| 19:24.25 | elg | lunch game of wesnoth anyone? |
| 19:24.27 | levi | Get a sense of perspective, man. Seriously. |
| 19:25.04 | sjansen | Based on specific experience that you so quickly discount, at this point I feel so strongly that I'm willing to limit my careers options if it means limiting my exposure to proprietary software. |
| 19:25.46 | sjansen | levi: Do you realize how disrespectful you sound in your attempt to express a "balanced" opinion? |
| 19:26.13 | goozbach | http://notalwaysright.com/youd-better-throw-in-the-cars-too/1420 |
| 19:26.51 | sjansen | Some people enjoy getting punched for a living, are you saying that everyone else that chooses not to should "get a sense of perspective"? |
| 19:27.09 | levi | No, I'm not saying that. |
| 19:27.14 | *** join/#utah shansen (n=shansen@206.71.94.10) |
| 19:27.30 | maquis | sjansen: what's the quote in your sig? |
| 19:27.34 | redbeard2 | goozbach and elg, thanks |
| 19:27.42 | levi | I'm saying you're casting your blame too widely. |
| 19:27.43 | *** join/#utah jasonpr (n=jasonpr@c-67-161-245-201.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:27.55 | goozbach | http://notalwaysright.com/cancun-oahu-same-difference/765 |
| 19:28.18 | unum | http://www.transparencyslcgov.com/ <- I can't figure it out |
| 19:28.27 | unum | do I have to register first |
| 19:28.28 | sjansen | Some people enjoy being part of the political system, living in the public eye, constantly dealing with personal and professional attacks, infighting, etc. Are you saying that anyone who isn't up to it should "grow a freaking backbone"? |
| 19:28.45 | levi | Again, you misunderstand what I'm saying. |
| 19:28.52 | unum | is disappointed to see that they used dotnetnuke |
| 19:29.58 | sjansen | levi: Whatever. |
| 19:30.41 | levi | sjansen: Look, don't get all uptight because I was blunt. You have a tendency to do it yourself. |
| 19:31.13 | levi | You can continue to hate proprietary software, and I'll continue to not categorically hate it. |
| 19:31.23 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@204.228.142.225) |
| 19:31.30 | levi | But I still think the ESR quote is crass and wrongheaded. |
| 19:32.03 | unum | I like the esr quote :) |
| 19:32.21 | levi | I would expect you to, unum. :) |
| 19:32.33 | unum | I tend to believe that the center is defined by the extremes |
| 19:32.52 | unum | so I often take extreme stances with the intent of pulling people towards the center |
| 19:33.04 | unum | but sometimes it does stop them from listening to you altogether |
| 19:33.34 | levi | Oh, I certainly agree with that sentiment, but that doesn't mean the extremists aren't wrong. |
| 19:33.58 | levi | They can have a pulling effect without actually embracing them. |
| 19:36.33 | sjansen | So it's okay for you to be crass? You can say that anyone unwilling to submit to proprietary software is "wrongheaded", but we can't say that it feels like we're forced to submit our will to someone who disregards our needs, instead viewing us a resource to from which to extract maximum value? |
| 19:37.31 | sjansen | Who made you the judge of all propriety? |
| 19:38.43 | levi | sjansen: I said comparing all proprietary software to slavery is crass and wrongheaded. If you want to make a specific comparison of an experience you had with a properietary software vendor like that, the comparison becomes a bit more apt. |
| 19:39.09 | levi | I, like anyone else, am entitled to an opinion on the propriety of it. It's just an opinion, though. |
| 19:40.22 | levi | There's plenty of proprietary software that doesn't create that kind of abusive relationship. |
| 19:41.36 | levi | People who are unwilling to submit to abusive relationships have my respect and I applaud them. |
| 19:41.51 | Jayce^ | to sjansen I would say that's much like saying "there are many drugs that aren't *that* addictive" |
| 19:42.08 | goozbach | gotta love irc, and telework, and fancy phone systems |
| 19:42.10 | levi | I will continue to call those who insist that all proprietary software creates such an abusive relationship wrongheaded, though. |
| 19:42.19 | goozbach | most of us work from home 3days/week |
| 19:42.34 | goozbach | our office is badge in only (the door is locked) |
| 19:42.34 | sjansen | Being called wrongeheaded and told to grow a backbone sure doesn't feel like respect. |
| 19:42.54 | goozbach | there's a phone just outside the door which can dial any of the extensions inside. |
| 19:43.06 | neybar | goozbach: nice |
| 19:43.17 | goozbach | fedex just showed up, dialed one of us, and was told to wait... |
| 19:43.33 | goozbach | the guy just got on IRC, said "fedex at the door" and the door got answered |
| 19:43.56 | goozbach | fedex guy was suprised. voice on phone was male, person who opened door, female |
| 19:44.15 | levi | sjansen: That's because we misunderstood each other, apparently. |
| 19:45.15 | levi | Anyway, I must drive back to work now. |
| 19:47.05 | goozbach | http://notalwaysright.com/and-the-baristas-shall-inherit-the-earth/1225 |
| 19:47.09 | sjansen | maquis: http://pthree.org/2009/01/13/i-dont-do-proprietary-and-i-dont-tweet-i-dent/ |
| 19:47.17 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you dont' work, do you? |
| 19:47.42 | goozbach | Jayce^: not today |
| 19:47.48 | goozbach | damn migs |
| 19:48.00 | goozbach | I'm just watching a test run |
| 19:48.13 | goozbach | done all the working, now I'm babysitting a log running process |
| 19:50.53 | goozbach | I really should close that web browser tab |
| 19:50.56 | goozbach | but I can't |
| 19:50.59 | goozbach | it's like crack |
| 19:56.39 | sjansen | whispers sweet promises of Leech Block to goozbach |
| 19:59.55 | maquis | sjansen: interesting quote |
| 20:04.04 | goozbach | leech block! |
| 20:04.36 | goozbach | I don't need leech block |
| 20:04.40 | goozbach | I need self control |
| 20:10.22 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@wsddevdude.weber.k12.ut.us) |
| 20:20.17 | levi | sjansen: Hey, I was reflecting on the drive home, and I have been way too caustic lately in my online communication. I'm sorry for causing offense. |
| 20:20.17 | harleypig | any javascripters willing to give me a helping hand? |
| 20:21.58 | sjansen | It's okay. I think ESR is a wacko too. |
| 20:22.05 | JoshH | oh levi, don't get all soft now |
| 20:22.36 | sjansen | And I'm not exactly fuzzy and cuddly either. |
| 20:28.07 | goozbach | sjansen: you've been shaving? |
| 20:30.49 | elg | :) |
| 20:31.18 | goozbach | cuddly I can see. |
| 20:31.32 | goozbach | but last time I saw you, you were most certianly fuzzy |
| 20:31.47 | Sargun | and cuddly? |
| 20:33.08 | Tene | sjansen is most definitely both fuzzy and cuddly. |
| 20:33.24 | goozbach | Tene: when was the last time you tried to cuddle him? |
| 20:33.48 | goozbach | speaking of cuddle: |
| 20:33.49 | goozbach | http://truckbearingkibble.com/comic/2008/12/08/cuddlemania/ |
| 20:33.58 | Sargun | SFW? |
| 20:34.05 | Tene | Aw, looks like I left my webcam a thome. |
| 20:34.23 | Sargun | Tene, where are you |
| 20:34.23 | goozbach | Sargun: yup |
| 20:34.31 | Tene | Sargun: at work. |
| 20:34.37 | sjansen | begins to worry |
| 20:35.03 | Sargun | Tene, why do you need the webcam at work |
| 20:35.06 | Sargun | does GL have a hot secretary? |
| 20:35.26 | Tene | Sargun: I was going to point the webcam at sjansen to show how fuzzy and cuddly he is. |
| 20:35.39 | Tene | Sargun: I think he's pretty attractive. |
| 20:36.02 | Sargun | your secretary is male? |
| 20:36.27 | mrpull-lt | Sargun: proof? |
| 20:37.09 | goozbach | Tene: I thought you were going to point the webcam at sjansen and try to cuddle with him |
| 20:37.39 | Tene | Sargun: Yes, he is. |
| 20:38.06 | Tene | goozbach: not while at the office. These chairs aren't comfortable enough. |
| 20:38.06 | ^Migs^ | pics or ban |
| 20:38.07 | mrpull-lt | and this is the part where i realize my IRC window is scrolled to about 2 hours ago |
| 20:38.07 | mrpull-lt | i was going the migs route anyway :) |
| 20:38.12 | Tene | Maybe if he was sitting on the couch out by the front... |
| 20:38.30 | ^Migs^ | I hate when that happens, mrpull-lt |
| 20:38.52 | ^Migs^ | usually when that happens I try to cover it up and act like what I just said make sense in whatever the current conversational context is |
| 20:39.01 | mrpull-lt | :) |
| 20:39.07 | goozbach | mrpull-lt: it kinda does? |
| 20:39.38 | goozbach | almost like you were asking sargun "do you want proof?" |
| 20:39.49 | goozbach | that's how I read it |
| 20:40.12 | mrpull-lt | i certainly dont want proof of the secretary's manhood |
| 20:40.28 | mrpull-lt | proof of a female secretary's hotness on the otherhand... |
| 20:40.59 | mrpull-lt | and this is the part where i admit i've typed too much |
| 20:41.41 | goozbach | Sargun: you should go up to the secratary, and say "I have a bunch of friends online who don't believe we have a hot secretary here... Can I take your picture?" |
| 20:41.42 | Sargun | mrpull-lt, aren't you married |
| 20:41.58 | Sargun | goozbach, Yes... and then I would get escorted out. |
| 20:42.48 | mrpull-lt | i am |
| 20:43.00 | Sargun | and I are? |
| 20:43.34 | ^Migs^ | if you can't walk up to a person and ask to take your picture, perhaps it's not a place worth working at |
| 20:43.35 | mrpull-lt | i had a customer for 3 years that nobody in the company had ever seen face to face |
| 20:43.47 | ^Migs^ | was the customer hot? |
| 20:43.50 | mrpull-lt | when we finally arranged a meatspace meeting with them i HAD to get pics |
| 20:44.21 | *** part/#utah shansen (n=shansen@206.71.94.10) |
| 20:44.37 | mrpull-lt | i said we were collecting pictures for the badge readers / customer access database |
| 20:44.42 | mrpull-lt | they bit and I got pics |
| 20:44.48 | mrpull-lt | it was a good laugh |
| 20:44.51 | ^Migs^ | lol |
| 20:45.01 | goozbach | mrpull-lt: pics or ban... |
| 20:45.01 | mrpull-lt | it was two average looking dudes |
| 20:45.05 | ^Migs^ | this is why I'm in favor of hidden cameras |
| 20:45.15 | mrpull-lt | doh. i'll have to dig in and see if i still have them |
| 20:45.20 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 20:45.20 | ^Migs^ | just a ninja cam disguised as a button on your shirt, or something |
| 20:45.24 | mrpull-lt | it was two years ago and they are no longer customers |
| 20:45.35 | goozbach | why did you have to get pictures? |
| 20:45.41 | sjansen | does a double take on shansen's departure |
| 20:45.42 | ^Migs^ | their existence was questionable |
| 20:45.43 | mrpull-lt | we did have a customer with a smokin' receptionist. no pics to prove it. |
| 20:45.46 | goozbach | no one believed they existed? |
| 20:45.55 | ^Migs^ | pics or it never happened, mrpull-lt |
| 20:47.26 | *** join/#utah jshipley (n=jshipley@ip67-88-113-150.z113-88-67.customer.algx.net) |
| 20:47.43 | levi | sjansen: I did a double-take, too. |
| 20:47.46 | mrpull-lt | goozbach: NOBODY who worked for the company had ever seen these guys |
| 20:48.05 | mrpull-lt | one of the biggest customers and nobody had met them except phone/email/im |
| 20:48.58 | mrpull-lt | i am so grateful that i am too old for the "pics or it didn't happen" generation. |
| 20:49.19 | mrpull-lt | the stupid crap i did as a youth would get me a prison sentence these days |
| 20:49.32 | goozbach | mrpull-lt: you never had a polaroid?? |
| 20:49.43 | mrpull-lt | had i been born 10 years later i'm sure i would have bloged the debauchery |
| 20:50.05 | mrpull-lt | my friend got a 1MP digicam right after our senior year of highschool |
| 20:50.12 | mrpull-lt | and there is that one VHS tape that is missing |
| 20:50.31 | mrpull-lt | that tape will probably prevent me from ever going into public office |
| 20:54.56 | goozbach | pats his media safe lovingly |
| 21:16.26 | *** join/#utah Tadaka (n=Tadaka@c-67-177-61-219.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:24.05 | tensai | how do I add a persistent static route on a redhat box? |
| 21:24.14 | sjansen | mrpull-lt: Do tell. |
| 21:24.25 | sjansen | hands out cookies and milk to everyone |
| 21:24.49 | sjansen | tensai: Global or only when a specific interface is active? |
| 21:24.52 | maquis | grabs a cookie and a glass of milk, bringing her blankie over to sit at mrpull-lt's feet for storytime |
| 21:25.00 | tensai | sjansen: either way |
| 21:25.31 | mrpull-lt | sjansen: i cant go into detail, but hints include a late 70's Honda Accord, fenceposts, traintracks, motocross tracks, trashcans, and distance contests |
| 21:25.54 | tensai | global probably I guess. if eth0 isn't up, the box will have serious issues beyond the static route. |
| 21:26.43 | tensai | looks like /etc/sysconfig/static-routes is the answer |
| 21:27.48 | mrpull-lt | it would be nice if "route add -p" added static routes to /etc/sysconfig/static-routes |
| 21:29.08 | Tene | no it wouldn't. |
| 21:29.34 | Tene | it's a *good* thing that configuration and state are separate |
| 21:29.46 | Tene | tensai: I would use /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 |
| 21:30.20 | mrpull-lt | the -p in other unixes (and even windows) means to add it to the config files |
| 21:30.31 | mrpull-lt | if you omit it, it works as you describe |
| 21:30.43 | Tene | Ah. reading comprehension is a virtue. |
| 21:30.50 | Tene | I guess that would be okay. |
| 21:30.51 | sjansen | tensai: For details, see /usr/share/doc/initscripts-*/sysconfig.txt |
| 21:31.26 | sjansen | No different than setsebool -P |
| 21:31.27 | mrpull-lt | it seems redhat has changed where the static routes are held over the last few versions |
| 21:32.07 | mrpull-lt | if there was a -p flag i could forget where the config file is :) |
| 21:32.17 | mrpull-lt | except when i really need it |
| 21:32.20 | tensai | sjansen: neato |
| 21:32.24 | tensai | ~sjansen++ |
| 21:32.27 | tensai | ~tene++ |
| 21:34.32 | goozbach | ~goozbach++ |
| 21:46.53 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@castro.iodynamics.com) |
| 21:46.53 | brac | puts lye in Tene's coffee |
| 21:46.58 | *** join/#utah goozbach (n=goozbach@209.41.92.80) |
| 21:46.59 | *** mode/#utah [+v goozbach] by ChanServ |
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| 21:53.42 | *** mode/#utah [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
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| 22:05.43 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@209.41.95.5) |
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| 22:07.00 | *** mode/#utah [+v goozbach] by ChanServ |
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| 22:07.06 | *** mode/#utah [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 22:08.47 | macnewbold | weird |
| 22:08.54 | macnewbold | what happened to ibot? |
| 22:13.50 | maquis | ? |
| 22:14.03 | maquis | ibot looks fine from what i can see |
| 22:14.32 | sjansen | ~onjoin _default herlo |
| 22:14.38 | sjansen | ~onjoin #utah herlo |
| 22:14.38 | ibot | onjoin for herlo set by elg on Thu Oct 9 08:03:11 2008: 1 UTOSC moderator request(s) waiting |
| 22:15.04 | sjansen | Aw, that's boring. :-( |
| 22:15.41 | goozbach | eightyeight: what's that script which writes the users out in irssi? |
| 22:23.01 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 22:29.25 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 22:32.27 | eightyeight | goozbach: nicklist.pl? |
| 22:32.40 | elg | another day and i'll set up a procmail rule to forward it in triplicate to herlo |
| 22:32.44 | elg | or rsimpkins |
| 22:32.49 | elg | or whoever needs it |
| 22:33.29 | goozbach | eightyeight: sounds right, have a URL? |
| 22:34.32 | eightyeight | http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/nicklist.pl |
| 22:52.12 | levi | Have you guys seen the Microsoft Songsmith commercial? |
| 22:55.17 | levi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E |
| 23:15.40 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@209.41.95.5) |
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| 23:24.01 | *** join/#utah tene (n=tene@pleasedieinafire.net) |
| 23:24.01 | brac | makes Tene try to set up a Lexmark printer |
| 23:24.04 | tene | rsimpkins: ping |
| 23:28.53 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:51.13 | tene | Oh man, I managed to schedule some contract work at the same time as plug. |
| 23:51.25 | tene | I *might* be able to get it done before and still get there on time. |
| 23:51.40 | tene | They're not wanting to start until after business hours, though. |
| 23:51.56 | tene | That's a pretty impressive failure on my part. |
| 23:54.07 | sjansen | ~seen rsimpkins |
| 23:54.10 | ibot | rsimpkins is currently on #utah (6d 12h 17m 59s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 6d 6h 44m 13s, last said: 'undertakingyou: Didn't mean to leave you hanging last night. Yup, still at the same place.'. |
| 23:54.44 | fozzmoo | tene: I can stall em with my sjansen jokes. |