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| 03:03.51 | levi_ipod_ | The iTunes discussion on PLUG cracks me up. |
| 03:06.33 | levipod | Some of those criticizing it have clearly never seriously used it. |
| 03:21.25 | sontek | The only thing I don't like about itunes is its horrible performance |
| 04:08.50 | eightyeight | woah! it's a sontek! |
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| 07:26.27 | maquis | wps: ping? |
| 07:54.33 | Sargun | I can replace wps! |
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| 13:20.30 | robertelee | greetings |
| 13:34.56 | wps | yes maquis ? |
| 13:35.16 | wps | never mindâ¦Â got your PM |
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| 14:04.58 | goozbach | ~greet robertelee |
| 14:04.58 | ibot | ACTION dumps a bucket of cold oatmeal on robertelee |
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| 16:03.20 | Sargun | -_- |
| 16:03.24 | Sargun | ~onjoin -Sargun |
| 16:03.24 | ibot | Sargun: ok |
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| 16:17.35 | elg | ibot: try not to miss me too much today |
| 16:18.24 | elg | ~rlart |
| 16:18.25 | ibot | wallops elg with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long |
| 16:18.25 | elg | fine, be that way |
| 16:19.09 | robertelee | what part of Utah are most of you in? |
| 16:23.22 | romanovic | robertelee: dunno where the majority is, but I'm in SLC |
| 16:24.28 | high_roller | most of the people that live in Utah live along the wasatch front, so most of the people here probably live in that area |
| 16:25.47 | romanovic | robertelee, where are you? |
| 16:26.59 | eightyeight | is in weber county |
| 16:30.55 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:31.21 | romanovic | morning |
| 16:31.49 | levi | I live in Lehi, but I work in Sandy. |
| 16:32.48 | goozbach | the majority of us lurkers don't even live in Utah |
| 16:33.31 | eightyeight | goozbach: 33 or more in this channel are out of state? |
| 16:35.31 | jsmith | goozbach: Amen! |
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| 16:44.43 | robertelee | right now I'm in Karlskrona, Sweden |
| 16:44.48 | robertelee | used to live in California |
| 16:44.56 | robertelee | moving to Provo next week |
| 16:45.08 | robertelee | just trying to reach out to technology folskks |
| 16:45.12 | robertelee | make new friends, etc |
| 16:45.23 | unum | we welcome |
| 16:45.28 | unum | s/we/well |
| 16:45.32 | robertelee | thank you |
| 16:45.34 | unum | what are you moving to provo for |
| 16:45.43 | robertelee | to be closer to my family |
| 16:45.55 | robertelee | I have a lot of family in provo |
| 16:46.00 | robertelee | I've lived in sweden for the past 3 years |
| 16:46.10 | robertelee | so I miss them |
| 16:46.29 | robertelee | my office is in sugarhouse |
| 16:46.38 | robertelee | but I'm home office/phone based |
| 16:46.45 | tensai | jsmith: all the cool kids anyway |
| 16:46.45 | robertelee | so I can really be anywhere |
| 16:47.29 | robertelee | what kind of work are you guys in? |
| 16:47.30 | jsmith | tensai: Exactly :-p |
| 16:47.37 | jsmith | does telephony/VoIP |
| 16:47.50 | robertelee | I'm in infosec |
| 16:47.55 | eightyeight | <- sys admin |
| 16:48.04 | robertelee | but I used to be a sysadmin |
| 16:48.12 | robertelee | in the 90's :) |
| 16:48.31 | unum | software developer/sysadmin/phone system admin/desktop support/dba |
| 16:48.37 | unum | you've got love small businesses :) |
| 16:48.37 | fozzmoo | does whatever you pay him to do. :) |
| 16:48.54 | robertelee | unum: hah, yeah I know that life |
| 16:48.56 | fozzmoo | (Mostly sysadmin stuff.) |
| 16:49.02 | tensai | unum: sounds a lot like my job requirements |
| 16:49.05 | goozbach | sysadmin |
| 16:49.26 | robertelee | do you guys attend any local meetings |
| 16:49.33 | fozzmoo | Yeah. PLUG and SLLUG |
| 16:49.34 | robertelee | like plug, etc |
| 16:49.39 | robertelee | cool |
| 16:49.42 | goozbach | PLUG and SLLUG are pretty busy |
| 16:49.51 | robertelee | I was part of plug a long time ago |
| 16:49.55 | fozzmoo | robertelee: We also have a state-wide org now called UTOS |
| 16:50.06 | eightyeight | ubuntu-utah |
| 16:50.06 | fozzmoo | And an annual open source conference that includes all the local user groups. |
| 16:50.10 | robertelee | back when Eaglenet Online was still in business |
| 16:50.22 | robertelee | (the Orem ISP) |
| 16:50.26 | robertelee | is Mike Handy still around? |
| 16:50.27 | fozzmoo | See http://2008.utosc.com/ |
| 16:50.48 | fozzmoo | robertelee: yes, but I'm not sure what he's doing. |
| 16:51.36 | robertelee | heh |
| 16:51.41 | robertelee | he used to be my boss |
| 16:51.57 | Sargun | Man, I'm tired, I only got 2.5 hours of sleep. |
| 16:52.05 | fozzmoo | robertelee: I worked for his brother at Northsky for a little while. |
| 16:52.12 | robertelee | ahh |
| 16:52.24 | robertelee | fozzmoo: I left utah about the time his brother hired him away from eaglenet |
| 16:53.10 | fozzmoo | Last time I saw him was at the 10th Anniversary PLUG meeting. :) |
| 16:53.55 | fozzmoo | 2 or 3 years ago, I guess. |
| 16:53.57 | unum | jesse has started ignite conferences |
| 16:54.03 | robertelee | http://blog.robertlee.name <-- my blog, if anyone cares :) |
| 16:54.47 | fozzmoo | robertelee: If you're coming back to Utah, you should get signed up on the Utah Open Source planet... |
| 16:55.00 | fozzmoo | http://planet.utos.org/ |
| 16:55.02 | robertelee | ok |
| 16:55.13 | robertelee | pulling that up now |
| 16:55.47 | robertelee | unicornscan |
| 16:55.50 | robertelee | and osstmm |
| 16:55.58 | robertelee | are the two projects I contribute to |
| 16:56.49 | Sargun | robertelee, are you that guy who says TCP is absolutely screwed? |
| 16:57.03 | robertelee | yes, indeed :) |
| 16:57.11 | Sargun | I knew your name sounded familiar |
| 16:57.18 | robertelee | should have full details out by easter |
| 16:57.19 | Sargun | I used to troll in the IRC channel on Efnet. |
| 16:57.27 | robertelee | ahh |
| 16:57.31 | robertelee | I go by jrl there |
| 16:57.32 | Sargun | yeah, yeah, you're just another alarmist. :-P |
| 16:57.40 | robertelee | :) |
| 16:58.12 | Sargun | If your "Discovery" makes the move to SCTP quicker, more power to you, btw. |
| 16:58.14 | robertelee | did you see the CCC talk that FX and Fabs did? |
| 16:58.24 | robertelee | it was pretty well researched |
| 16:58.32 | robertelee | and they did some self censoring too |
| 16:59.07 | Sargun | you work for a Swedish company, right? |
| 16:59.12 | robertelee | yes |
| 16:59.14 | robertelee | Outpost24 |
| 16:59.23 | Sargun | Ah, ok. |
| 16:59.41 | Sargun | Does Sweden own the communications market, or is it just me? |
| 16:59.56 | Sargun | I mean, they're in telephones, IP switching, etc.. |
| 16:59.57 | robertelee | shared with finland :) |
| 17:00.28 | robertelee | but yeah, a lot of good ideas for communication come out of this area |
| 17:00.37 | robertelee | the city I'm in is nicknamed telcomcity |
| 17:00.50 | robertelee | kind of like a mini-wannabie silicon valley thing |
| 17:01.01 | Sargun | yes. |
| 17:01.03 | robertelee | but we have sony/ericsson here |
| 17:01.20 | Sargun | We have Ericsson here too!! :-P |
| 17:01.24 | Sargun | Silicon valley is much more boring than people believe it to be. |
| 17:01.26 | robertelee | they're kind of all over :) |
| 17:01.39 | robertelee | I lived/worked in silicon valley for a couple of years |
| 17:01.49 | robertelee | its very visually unappealing |
| 17:01.52 | Sargun | What city? |
| 17:02.01 | robertelee | Sunnyvale |
| 17:02.03 | robertelee | and cupertino |
| 17:02.05 | Sargun | What's wrong with the valley |
| 17:02.10 | Sargun | Oh, Asian land? |
| 17:02.17 | robertelee | well |
| 17:02.21 | robertelee | I grew up in San Diego |
| 17:02.40 | robertelee | so that's what I was comparing it against |
| 17:02.52 | robertelee | Utah is not coastal, so it is judged differenty |
| 17:03.11 | robertelee | and utah has a ton of natural beauty almost everywhere you look |
| 17:03.34 | robertelee | out in silicon valley, my rent was about $2700/month |
| 17:03.41 | Sargun | Yeah, we don't have pretty women, nice beaches, low prices, or anything nice |
| 17:03.42 | robertelee | for an ok apartment |
| 17:03.45 | Sargun | or even fast internet. |
| 17:04.00 | robertelee | the women there were not attractive |
| 17:04.04 | robertelee | the landscape was not great |
| 17:04.09 | robertelee | the prices were hi |
| 17:04.12 | robertelee | high even |
| 17:04.29 | Sargun | we have....Yahoo, Intel, Eric, Google, Polycom, Cisco, Foundry, Juniper, and a boatload of other companies here. |
| 17:04.33 | robertelee | southern california does well for women |
| 17:04.33 | robertelee | :) |
| 17:04.50 | robertelee | and soon, Outpost24 :) |
| 17:04.59 | robertelee | I'm leading the charge to open several offices |
| 17:05.08 | robertelee | the 1st one is Salt Lake |
| 17:05.21 | Sargun | How many women does Outpost24 have? |
| 17:05.24 | robertelee | also targeting 6 other cities for 2009-2011 expansion |
| 17:05.49 | robertelee | in the whole company? |
| 17:05.52 | robertelee | or in Salt Lake? |
| 17:06.34 | Sargun | both |
| 17:06.46 | Jayce^ | robertelee, mike lives around here, but doesn't come to the groups really |
| 17:06.56 | robertelee | none in salt lake yet, |
| 17:07.11 | robertelee | 4-5 in the HQ office here in karlskrona |
| 17:07.16 | Jayce^ | yeesh, another ex eaglenet guy.. maybe you can help pull the oldies out of the woodwork :) |
| 17:07.39 | robertelee | :) |
| 17:07.40 | Sargun | robertelee, Come to the bay area, and get pretty women here. |
| 17:07.41 | robertelee | I can try |
| 17:07.50 | Sargun | I think the ratio of men to women is like 1:10 |
| 17:08.12 | robertelee | *shrug* .. I'm not looking to collect :) |
| 17:08.15 | robertelee | just need one good one |
| 17:08.38 | Sargun | hehe |
| 17:08.42 | Sargun | Go to the east coast. |
| 17:08.56 | robertelee | I've been dating girls all over the globe for 3 years |
| 17:09.05 | robertelee | it's been weird, but fun |
| 17:09.11 | unum | all my cron.d jobs quit running... |
| 17:09.15 | Sargun | unum, heh. |
| 17:11.55 | Sargun | robertelee, Hm, I've been stuck with one girl in the valley for the past two years. |
| 17:12.09 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Poor girl. |
| 17:12.13 | Sargun | fozzmoo, -_- |
| 17:12.17 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:12.42 | Sargun | then again, being and 18 year old high school drop out doesn't exactly put me too high on people to date. |
| 17:12.45 | Sargun | but I'm happy. |
| 17:12.45 | unum | shoots Sargun in the knees for saying "the valley" |
| 17:13.12 | Sargun | being an 18 year old. |
| 17:13.15 | Sargun | gr, need more sleep. |
| 17:15.33 | robertelee | what do you consider 'the valley' |
| 17:15.38 | robertelee | provo/orem? |
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| 17:15.56 | fozzmoo | robertelee: Sargun is in San Jose |
| 17:15.57 | robertelee | woah, xmission is still around |
| 17:16.01 | robertelee | fozzmoo: ahh |
| 17:16.03 | unum | oh well then that's ok |
| 17:16.06 | fozzmoo | robertelee: XMission will never go away. |
| 17:16.12 | unum | I thought he was one of those utah valley people.... |
| 17:16.35 | unum | robertelee: and the owner still hangs out here :) |
| 17:16.42 | unum | pashdown for senate!!! |
| 17:16.44 | robertelee | cool :) |
| 17:17.01 | unum | actually I think it's about time to start gearing up for 2010.... |
| 17:17.21 | fozzmoo | unum: I agree. Bennett needs to go home. |
| 17:17.54 | unum | I don't think Bennett is disliked as much as hatch so it'll probably be a tougher race |
| 17:18.26 | fozzmoo | unum: I dunno. He's pretty disliked. |
| 17:18.28 | JoshH | i think bennett is less invincible than hatch though |
| 17:18.46 | JoshH | lots of people didn't like hatch, but thought he was good for utah, with his clout and all that |
| 17:19.25 | unum | that's true bennett doesn't have as much clout |
| 17:19.27 | robertelee | anyhow, quitting time here |
| 17:19.27 | fozzmoo | He's not as well-spoken as Hatch, doesn't look as good, and the right-leaning conservatives see him as a complete betrayal. |
| 17:19.34 | robertelee | catch you all later |
| 17:19.40 | fozzmoo | robertelee: thanks for visiting! |
| 17:19.40 | robertelee | & |
| 17:19.51 | unum | fozzmoo: I know a lot of the libertarians may not like him, but they won't like pashdown either |
| 17:19.56 | unum | see ya robertelee |
| 17:20.03 | JoshH | i'm surprised hatch's rescue of the cocaine rappers didn't anger more utahns |
| 17:20.32 | fozzmoo | unum: I would vote for Pete over Bennett, esp. if the GOP or CP doesn't drum up a better alternative. |
| 17:20.51 | unum | JoshH: I've come to find that most utahns don't pay attention to real news media, everything they hear is filtered |
| 17:21.05 | pashdown | thanks fozz :-) |
| 17:21.12 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Wait 4 years. |
| 17:21.25 | fozzmoo | pashdown: np. :) |
| 17:21.25 | unum | so most people only hear what their conservative friends tell them |
| 17:21.33 | pashdown | unum, my theory is the only scandal that will boot an incumbant is one where their pants are down. |
| 17:21.44 | pashdown | (in utah) |
| 17:21.49 | unum | pashdown: that really does seem to be the case. |
| 17:22.00 | unum | in alaska they actually did boot the guy for bribes |
| 17:22.06 | unum | but even that was close |
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| 17:22.48 | JoshH | sex scandals, especially gay ones, are basically the only way to take down a republican |
| 17:22.58 | pashdown | unless you're larry craig |
| 17:23.10 | pashdown | of course, he hasn't run for reelection yet, has he? |
| 17:23.11 | fozzmoo | And even Craig continued to serve. |
| 17:23.26 | JoshH | i think he's resigned now |
| 17:23.37 | Sargun | robertelee, I'm in the "right" valley |
| 17:23.47 | fozzmoo | blinks |
| 17:24.04 | JoshH | well, not resigned, but just didn't run again |
| 17:24.11 | JoshH | i'd have to look it up |
| 17:24.21 | fozzmoo | He's definitely forgotten. :) |
| 17:24.23 | pashdown | his senate website is gone |
| 17:24.39 | unum | I think he was up for relection last year and didn't run |
| 17:24.46 | fozzmoo | Did you have to click the "Yes, I'm 18 or over" button to get into it when it was up? :-D |
| 17:24.53 | pashdown | ha ha |
| 17:25.41 | pashdown | fozz, did you hear buchanan's comments about carolyn kennedy? |
| 17:25.47 | fozzmoo | Pete, I admire your convictions to made a difference, but I really think you'd be more effective locally. |
| 17:25.54 | fozzmoo | no. |
| 17:25.58 | fozzmoo | What did Mr. Buchanan say? |
| 17:26.12 | pashdown | "she makes sarah palin look like disraeli or bismark" |
| 17:27.05 | fozzmoo | I'm not impressed by her trying to get Clinton's seat. I would think New Yorkers would be better served by someone with some experience, real-world or political-world. |
| 17:27.19 | fozzmoo | C. Kennedy hasn't even held down a job her whole life. |
| 17:27.28 | pashdown | no kidding, i can't believe there is nobody in all of new york state who isn't more qualified |
| 17:27.55 | fozzmoo | Of course, someone reminded me (or informed me) that Edward Kennedy wasn't elected to office the first go around either. |
| 17:27.59 | pashdown | this schtick about how they're going to get bill clinton or cuomo to warm the seat while they decide is ridiculous |
| 17:28.10 | pashdown | he was appointed? |
| 17:28.15 | fozzmoo | Yeah. By JFK. |
| 17:28.19 | pashdown | ha ha |
| 17:28.24 | pashdown | aaaahhh nepotism |
| 17:28.32 | pashdown | wait a sec, how did jfk do that? |
| 17:28.37 | pashdown | he wasn't governor |
| 17:28.42 | fozzmoo | I think JFK "made it happen." |
| 17:28.51 | pashdown | well that is an entirely different matter :-) |
| 17:29.11 | fozzmoo | He didn't appoint him, just pulled the right strings. |
| 17:29.21 | pashdown | lord knows the bush family never pulls rank |
| 17:30.41 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:31.08 | eightyeight | nevermind the fact that h.w. and w. both were members of skull and bones |
| 17:31.30 | fozzmoo | That being said, there is something to be said for people like John Quincy Adams who lived in his father's shadow, was involved in policy activities as a very young age (as interpreter to a delegation to Prussia) and was elected to the presidency later. |
| 17:32.10 | Jayce^ | eightyeight, so was Kerry though... hehe |
| 17:32.29 | eightyeight | kerry was? really? i didn't know that |
| 17:32.33 | JoshH | wasn't clinton as well? |
| 17:32.33 | fozzmoo | You could say that G.W. Bush, for example, has been exposed to a lot of the inner workings of government that other people simply could not have. |
| 17:32.42 | Jayce^ | JoshH, no, different school... |
| 17:32.43 | unum | I thought clinton was |
| 17:32.45 | pashdown | i loved the portrayal of JQA in Amistad |
| 17:32.49 | JoshH | i thought they all went to yale |
| 17:33.13 | unum | and supposedly my favority president was the first one to have been skull and bones |
| 17:33.36 | pashdown | clinton was a rhoads scholar at oxford i thought |
| 17:33.58 | fozzmoo | It's so difficult for me to imagine Clinton and "scholar" in the same sentence. |
| 17:34.16 | JoshH | unum: have you seen the movie "the good shepard"? pretty good movie, goes into skull and bones, the CIA, etc |
| 17:34.18 | eightyeight | s/clinton/g.w. bush/ |
| 17:34.26 | fozzmoo | eightyeight: Agreed. |
| 17:34.34 | pashdown | fozz, same for me with "gwbush" and "harvard mba" |
| 17:34.39 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 17:35.07 | eightyeight | fozzmoo: although, i have to put credit where credit is due. if it weren't for the media, he might come off across a bit more intelligent |
| 17:35.22 | pashdown | http://moscatelassociates.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/george-bush-harvard-mba.jpg |
| 17:35.38 | fozzmoo | And then there's Obama. Comes across as very scholarly. |
| 17:36.00 | JoshH | i lived in texas for a year while W was governor, and he always seemed to have a normal level of intelligence on TV then. he seemed MUCH dumber as president |
| 17:36.25 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, until he's off the teleprompter |
| 17:36.29 | fozzmoo | Although I'd argue that being a "constitutional scholar" he doesn't seem to have much respect for the constitution- wants to change it as much as possible. |
| 17:36.29 | pashdown | i watched an old gubernatorial debate where he did really well |
| 17:36.49 | pashdown | citation? |
| 17:36.56 | tensai | yes, larry craig did not run for re-election |
| 17:37.08 | levi | rolls eyes at fozzmoo and goes back to other things. |
| 17:37.15 | eightyeight | i really think the media has put a worse image of him than he really is. letterman anyone? |
| 17:37.22 | Jayce^ | rolls levi out the door |
| 17:37.34 | eightyeight | ~roll Jayce^ |
| 17:37.35 | ibot | ACTION stuffs Jayce^ in a hamster ball and rolls it down a steep, snow-covered mountain |
| 17:37.40 | pashdown | ...back to work |
| 17:37.41 | Jayce^ | ~rickroll eightyeight |
| 17:37.46 | fozzmoo | pashdown: I'm referring to his push for climate change legislation that would surrender a certain amount of US sovereignty to the UN. |
| 17:37.48 | eightyeight | hah |
| 17:37.49 | pashdown | nothing to see here |
| 17:38.01 | fozzmoo | (for example) |
| 17:38.22 | unum | I really think his advocating torcher of american citizen is a better example |
| 17:38.35 | tensai | torture |
| 17:38.38 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 17:38.40 | unum | after all the president has a right to enter international treaties |
| 17:39.21 | pashdown | if the president does it, it's not illegal!!! |
| 17:39.35 | levi | torches unum. |
| 17:39.47 | unum | has anyone seen that yet? |
| 17:39.56 | pashdown | not yet |
| 17:40.03 | Jayce^ | hurrah for a real flame war now! |
| 17:40.16 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: heh heh. |
| 17:44.28 | levi | I'm still chuckling at the current iTunes-related discussion on PLUG. |
| 17:45.14 | fozzmoo | Are there any online music services that sell Ogg Vorbis downloads? |
| 17:45.43 | fozzmoo | Most of my personal music library is in .ogg and .flac format. |
| 17:46.06 | levi | That would be silly. Only Free Software geeks care about Ogg. ;) |
| 17:46.37 | fozzmoo | I got my 8-yr old daughter a Sansa clip for Christmas. does Ogg. :) |
| 17:47.41 | WoodsDog | levi, i don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but i think there is a lot of truth to that statement |
| 17:48.00 | levi | WoodsDog: It was a 'ha ha only serious' kind of statement. |
| 17:48.18 | unum | I got a cohan iaudio playe that plays ogg |
| 17:48.33 | levi | The music industry is just getting around to dealing with no DRM. It'll be a while before selling in ogg format even shows up on their radar. |
| 17:48.48 | fozzmoo | cowon? |
| 17:48.51 | unum | had to order it online. if you go into an electronics store an ask for a digitial music player that plays oggs you'll get funny looks |
| 17:48.52 | fozzmoo | unum: What model? |
| 17:49.00 | WoodsDog | i don't know if ogg will ever show up on their radar |
| 17:49.20 | unum | fozzmoo: I think it's the u2 |
| 17:49.30 | levi | I kind of doubt it, but it's in the realm of possibility. |
| 17:49.32 | WoodsDog | the geeks have been trying to promote ogg for as long as i can remember |
| 17:49.32 | fozzmoo | unum: Nice. I'm quite enamored with the S9. |
| 17:49.53 | levi | WoodsDog: Yeah, but they have managed to get hardware support for ogg playing in a number of devices. |
| 17:50.06 | WoodsDog | true |
| 17:50.17 | fozzmoo | Ogg (and FLAC) is gaining more widespread support. |
| 17:50.43 | unum | the s9 is way nicer than mine..... |
| 17:50.46 | fozzmoo | Hardware manufacturers really have nothing to lose by supporting Ogg and FLAC since there are no license fees. :) |
| 17:50.49 | unum | I bought mine almost two years ago |
| 17:50.56 | unum | but I've been really happy with it |
| 17:50.56 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 17:51.03 | high_roller | my iriver x20 works well |
| 17:51.22 | levi | fozzmoo: Well, there's no license fee, but there's a cost to incorporating the codec in the hardware. |
| 17:51.37 | levi | Unless they're doing software decoding. |
| 17:51.40 | fozzmoo | levi: True, and xiph.org will do anything they can to help you do that. :) |
| 17:51.43 | unum | on time I contacted a software company about ogg, and they said they wouldn't ever support it because the music industry didn't like it because it didn't support drm |
| 17:52.15 | unum | that was right before I became a free software guy |
| 17:52.21 | fozzmoo | unum: I've had an X5 and X5L for 3 or 4 years now. I hate the interface, but I love the player. |
| 17:52.24 | unum | wow that s9 is something else |
| 17:52.30 | levi | That was also before everyone started selling drm-free music. |
| 17:52.49 | fozzmoo | unum: Yes. the S9 is a beautiful piece of work. |
| 17:52.52 | levi | fozzmoo: So, is this book you talked about on facebook the Cleon Skousen one? |
| 17:52.55 | unum | and not a bad price |
| 17:53.00 | fozzmoo | levi: Yes. |
| 17:53.12 | fozzmoo | levi: We're studying it this month in the FCP study group. |
| 17:53.18 | levi | What's FCP? |
| 17:53.26 | fozzmoo | Free Capitalist Project |
| 17:54.04 | levi | Okay, my curiosity has been satisfied. |
| 17:59.54 | unum | ~lart fozzmoo for showing me the s9 |
| 17:59.54 | ibot | whacks fozzmoo with a giant beaver's tail for showing me the s9 |
| 18:00.05 | fozzmoo | unum: :-D |
| 18:01.52 | *** join/#utah high_roller (n=heath@host-12-152-163-48.preciscom.net) |
| 18:09.01 | levi | It looks really slick, but I don't really do a lot of portable video watching. |
| 18:09.25 | levi | My iTouch mostly gets used for audio and apps, especially web browsing. |
| 18:11.49 | levi | And I don't think my ears are golden enough to hear the better Cowan audio quality, though that is an attractive feature. |
| 18:13.04 | fozzmoo | I love their US domain name: COWONAMERICA.com |
| 18:13.09 | fozzmoo | Cow On America |
| 18:13.11 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 18:13.17 | levi | Moo. |
| 18:15.27 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Flow control platform? |
| 18:15.56 | fozzmoo | waits for Sargun to play ketchup. |
| 18:15.57 | zzzirk | funky chicken performance |
| 18:16.12 | Sargun | fozzmoo, -_- Damn old people talking about politics. |
| 18:17.01 | fozzmoo | Sargun: FWIW, I'm one of the oldest participants in our FCP study group. Most of us are in their 20s. |
| 18:17.26 | Sargun | Mhmm, yes you are old. |
| 18:17.54 | Sargun | what do you think about Michael Savage -- from Savage Nation? |
| 18:18.17 | levi | fozzmoo: There you go, corrupting the youth. ;) |
| 18:18.22 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Blowhard. |
| 18:18.29 | JoshH | dan savage is cooler |
| 18:18.59 | fozzmoo | Sargun: I probably agree with a lot of what he says, but I think listening to him is depressing and downright pessimistic. |
| 18:19.31 | Sargun | Do you agree autism is "fake" |
| 18:19.55 | fozzmoo | Oh, that stuff is just incredible. No, I think he's way up the creek on that crap. I forgot about that. |
| 18:20.09 | Sargun | I used to listen to him |
| 18:20.14 | Sargun | as a younger person, when I was 14. |
| 18:20.53 | fozzmoo | There may be a certain element of truth in what he says - that people are using diagnoses as excuses for behavior problems, but saying autism is fake is taking that to a far extreme. |
| 18:20.53 | unum | I don't think ADD is a chemical imbalance |
| 18:20.57 | unum | atleast not in most cases |
| 18:21.20 | JoshH | i know an autistic teenager, and something is definitely VERY messed up with him |
| 18:21.27 | unum | I am willing to believe some of the diet theories |
| 18:21.29 | JoshH | but i do think a lot of normal kids are incorrectly diagnosed with ADD, etc |
| 18:21.59 | JoshH | even when i was in elementary school 20+ years ago, people would say that the rowdier kids needed medications |
| 18:22.22 | JoshH | seemed like every kid in the school was on ritalin |
| 18:22.32 | fozzmoo | I think there's probably a direct relationship between out of control kids and parents not parenting. |
| 18:22.59 | Sargun | put the rowdy kids into comatose, and the rest learn |
| 18:23.42 | fozzmoo | It's not really the school's responsibility to teach kids self-discipline and socially acceptable behavior. |
| 18:23.53 | fozzmoo | So, i can understand the schools saying, "Just medicate." |
| 18:24.37 | levi | I would be very surprised if autism turned out to be caused by diet. |
| 18:24.42 | JoshH | well from a teachers point of view, you have 50+ uncontrollable brats in your class, and you probably get to your wits end pretty quickly, and would do anything to shut them up, so i can understand why they would support medicating |
| 18:24.54 | fozzmoo | 50+?! |
| 18:25.11 | levi | If you've got 50+ kids in your class, that's a whole other problem. |
| 18:25.18 | JoshH | we need smaller classes, and we need a culture of responsibility in schools, rather than just having them be giant babysitting camps where you need to ask permission to to the bathroom or sharpen a pencil |
| 18:25.47 | levi | Time to reboot to install a driver... |
| 18:25.53 | JoshH | if they were treated more like adults, i think they would act that way |
| 18:25.53 | fozzmoo | JoshH: I was just going to say, if schools had more independence we might see some more innovative programs to deal with things like this. |
| 18:26.46 | maquis | is glad for the school she went to |
| 18:26.51 | fozzmoo | But, thanks to The Great Society and the US Dept of Education... and a general over-regulation of public schools by federal and state govts, IMO, thats not going to happen. |
| 18:27.07 | unum | levi: I should have specified that I meant some adhd behavior may be idiet |
| 18:27.12 | unum | not autism |
| 18:27.14 | JoshH | i don't think it's an issue of government, i just think it's a cultural issue |
| 18:27.21 | JoshH | i think middle and high schools should be more like college |
| 18:27.45 | unum | I think the government refusing to better fund schools causes more problems than over regulation |
| 18:27.51 | fozzmoo | I can't help but wonder if there is some environmental factor in Autism considering its growth the last 2 years. |
| 18:28.00 | levi | High schools should. I'm not sure about the capacity of middle school kids to act maturely. :P |
| 18:28.05 | unum | not enough good creative teachers are going into to teaching because the pay is too low |
| 18:28.15 | tensai | levi: I am sure about it and my opinion is negative |
| 18:28.20 | fozzmoo | unum: Of course, if that "government" is local, you might get some of that. |
| 18:28.43 | unum | if you give enough funding |
| 18:28.52 | fozzmoo | Sure. |
| 18:29.07 | unum | my school district is a city wide school district |
| 18:29.17 | unum | there is quite a bit of local control, but the state controls the funding |
| 18:29.21 | levi | The problem with increasing teacher pay is that it will take a while before it has the desired effect of drawing in better teachers. |
| 18:29.28 | unum | levi: true |
| 18:29.31 | JoshH | i'm all for higher teacher pay and school funding, but there also need to be fundamental changes to how our schools are ran |
| 18:29.54 | JoshH | there is no reason our kids should all be stupid at math and english while indians are practically engineers at age 10 |
| 18:29.59 | fozzmoo | there are schools where teachers are getting paid much more than they are in Utah and yet the schools are still failing kids left and right. |
| 18:30.10 | levi | The decision-makers are all measured on meeting short-term goals, so long-term planning is hindered. |
| 18:30.18 | unum | I think having more small schools would help |
| 18:30.26 | unum | but that takes more money |
| 18:30.37 | unum | but the schools could be more responsible to the parents |
| 18:30.48 | JoshH | it has a lot to do with how we look at education here |
| 18:30.50 | levi | I don't think there's any magic bullet for fixing schools. |
| 18:30.52 | fozzmoo | unum: Or parents could be more responsible for schooling. |
| 18:31.00 | JoshH | in japan, students really, really, really do not want to get bad grades |
| 18:31.03 | levi | It's a cultural issue as much as anything else, IMO. |
| 18:31.04 | JoshH | here, most kids don't care |
| 18:31.10 | fozzmoo | Agreed. |
| 18:31.14 | unum | fozzmoo: it's a good idea to allow parents to be more responsible |
| 18:31.18 | JoshH | and if the kids don't care, it doesn't matter how good the teacher is or how well they are paid |
| 18:31.31 | unum | it's a bad idea to not support parents in educating their children |
| 18:31.42 | maquis | i think that paying teachers more is important, but i think we could get a *ton* by just giving teachers the freedom to do what works best |
| 18:31.52 | fozzmoo | Many parents, especially those in lower income brackets, are not involved in education. |
| 18:32.00 | fozzmoo | maquis++ |
| 18:32.04 | maquis | fozzmoo: yeah... parent involvement is important |
| 18:32.05 | unum | fozzmoo: and we can't force them to become involved |
| 18:32.27 | fozzmoo | unum: No, you can't. |
| 18:32.43 | maquis | the school i went to (private) actually paid teachers less than they could've made most other places, especially considering the fact that every teacher at the school had at least a masters in their field, and most had PhDs. |
| 18:32.44 | unum | so we have to choices educate their children for them, or lock up their children in prison |
| 18:32.48 | fozzmoo | But if they understand it's their JOB and not just a nice thought from the teacher... |
| 18:32.49 | unum | s/to/two |
| 18:33.02 | unum | fozzmoo: you can't force them |
| 18:33.08 | fozzmoo | unum: No, you can't. |
| 18:33.18 | unum | no matter how many times you yell at them that it's their job it won't change anything |
| 18:33.31 | maquis | but the teachers had the freedom to teach in whatever way worked, and it was great. the teachers had a *ton* of creative ideas that kept things exciting |
| 18:33.44 | fozzmoo | ~yell unum |
| 18:33.46 | unum | we have two choices, spend our money making their children better, or spend our money keeping them in prison |
| 18:33.57 | maquis | (we also had the advantage that since the parents were actually paying money for the schooling, they were a little bit more involved, but still...) |
| 18:34.04 | JoshH | unum: prisons are great, think of all the jobs they provide! |
| 18:34.23 | fozzmoo | Again, I'm sure if schools/teachers had more freedom and independence, they could come up with some innovative ways to increase parental involvement. |
| 18:34.39 | unum | teachers can't force parents to be involved |
| 18:34.42 | maquis | nobody checked to see if we went to class, and we actually had free periods during the day where we could be anywhere on campus, and noboyd would challenge to see whether you were "allowed" to be out and about |
| 18:34.53 | fozzmoo | unum: Are you sure. I know some teachers that can yell a lot. |
| 18:35.13 | unum | fozzmoo: yelling very rarely does any good |
| 18:35.27 | fozzmoo | unum: Sarcasm doesn't either, apparently. |
| 18:35.33 | maquis | generally, during freshman year, a lot of kids took advantage of the freedom and got themselves into trouble with grades... then they figured out that it wasn't worth it |
| 18:36.04 | Sargun | macnewbold, what wasn't worht it? |
| 18:36.07 | unum | maquis: private schools have a different set of students |
| 18:36.18 | unum | so comparing them to inner city public schools is not at all fair |
| 18:36.26 | fozzmoo | unum: You familiar with the West HS story? |
| 18:36.36 | unum | fozzmoo: nope |
| 18:36.41 | macnewbold | Sargun: nothing is ever worth it |
| 18:36.42 | fozzmoo | Wow. |
| 18:36.55 | fozzmoo | unum: you should read about that. |
| 18:36.58 | Sargun | macnewbold, can you /quit |
| 18:37.02 | unum | is that here in salt lake |
| 18:37.11 | maquis | unum: absolutely |
| 18:37.23 | maquis | but i still think that if teachers had more freedom, you'd still have better success |
| 18:37.39 | unum | I think there's some truth to that |
| 18:37.50 | unum | if only we could get rid of senator stephenson :) |
| 18:38.00 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.06 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.08 | macnewbold | ~kick Sargun |
| 18:38.09 | ibot | ACTION kicks Sargun |
| 18:38.10 | tensai | unum: I thought we did |
| 18:38.12 | Sargun | ~lart macnewbold |
| 18:38.12 | ibot | takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays macnewbold in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed |
| 18:38.16 | JoshH | we need to get rid of waddoups, buttars, and stephenson, in that order |
| 18:38.22 | maquis | macnewbold: sargun: what's up? |
| 18:38.27 | unum | JoshH: true |
| 18:38.35 | unum | all we got rid of was curtis |
| 18:38.35 | macnewbold | Sargun still doesn't know how to use his tab complete... |
| 18:38.38 | fozzmoo | unum: I'm fuzzy on the details... |
| 18:38.42 | tensai | unum: er, I'm thinking of ted stevens. you probably mean somebody else. |
| 18:38.50 | fozzmoo | but in the 80s, WHS was a terrible school. |
| 18:38.53 | unum | tensai: ya I mean a local senator |
| 18:39.00 | fozzmoo | This is the school on 3rd West just north of North Temple. |
| 18:39.12 | JoshH | stephenson is the draper senator who hates utopia |
| 18:39.13 | Sargun | maquis, the sky, possibly. |
| 18:39.14 | fozzmoo | they had gang problems, drop-out problems etc. etc. |
| 18:39.21 | maquis | unum: i've just had so many teachers who showed us their love for the subjects, and made things interesting simply becaus ethey cared about the subject and the students |
| 18:39.37 | fozzmoo | They got a new administration and the principle enacted some really radical reforms. |
| 18:39.55 | fozzmoo | For example, linen tablecloths in the cafeteria |
| 18:39.57 | unum | maquis: I've talked to teachers who wanted to teach at private schools because they would have students who were more interested in being educated |
| 18:40.00 | fozzmoo | Muzak in the hallways. |
| 18:40.21 | fozzmoo | Simple measures designed to encourage kids to treat the school (and each other) with more respect. |
| 18:40.24 | maquis | unum: i'd say that not all students at private schools wanted to be educated :) but it is true that the percentage is probably higher |
| 18:40.37 | fozzmoo | unum: Long story, short: It made a huge difference. |
| 18:41.00 | unum | fozzmoo: I don't think the federal government has passed law forbidding linen table clothes |
| 18:41.27 | unum | utah is actually the best balanced state in the country when it comes to funding schooling |
| 18:41.41 | unum | most states give more money to the better areas. |
| 18:42.08 | fozzmoo | unum: I wasn't saying that, I was just pointing out that urban-area schools can be reformed in big ways. |
| 18:42.27 | JoshH | ya, but utah doesn't really have any truly ghetto areas with truly bad schools, compared to the huge metro areas |
| 18:42.43 | unum | fozzmoo: I agree with that, but I think more money would allow even bigger ways |
| 18:42.49 | JoshH | our "poor" neighborhoods and schools are quite a bit better than you would see in LA, dallas, chicago, etc |
| 18:43.06 | unum | JoshH: true. |
| 18:43.34 | unum | I was really fortunate to go to school where I did. I think I got one of the publicly availiable educations there is |
| 18:44.22 | levi | I went to a whole lot of different schools growing up. The biggest factor in my successful education was my parents. |
| 18:45.09 | maquis | levi: that's always true |
| 18:45.10 | unum | my parents played an important role as well, but I definetly had access to a lot better teachers than most people |
| 18:45.24 | maquis | but there needs to be something to help the kids who don't have that kind of support |
| 18:45.29 | unum | maquis: agreed |
| 18:45.38 | levi | I'm not sure my situation is the norm, though. I was always a curious kid, and my parents mostly just had to give me access to books. |
| 18:45.39 | fozzmoo | unum: You'll likely find this to be interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Leader-Me-Schools-Inspiring-Greatness/dp/1439103267/ |
| 18:45.44 | levi | And make me do my homework. :) |
| 18:45.45 | maquis | maybe that needs to come through programs like big brothers/big sisters, or maybe other adults around the community can help |
| 18:46.04 | maquis | i'm not sure what the best solution is, though |
| 18:46.06 | JoshH | levi, same here. my parents didn't talk to me much about school, but growing up i had all kinds of books about science, history, etc and i was always very interested in those things |
| 18:46.22 | unum | this is where I'll agreed too much regulation is screwing that up |
| 18:46.27 | fozzmoo | I'm a great example of parents who didn't know how to be that involved. |
| 18:46.28 | unum | in logan I used to volunteer tutor |
| 18:46.30 | JoshH | and i happened to have great teachers in those areas as well |
| 18:46.33 | fozzmoo | i dropped out of high school. |
| 18:46.43 | fozzmoo | I never learned discipline for school. |
| 18:46.44 | maquis | i think it's important for someone to get under-privileged kids to understand that education is the way *out* of their situation |
| 18:46.46 | unum | but the local school district won't let me because they're afraid what might happen |
| 18:46.52 | unum | but atleast it's a local issue |
| 18:47.15 | fozzmoo | I was fortunate, however, to get a second chance and I pushed myself. I went back, finished school and went to college. it took me 11 years to get through college, tho. |
| 18:47.38 | levi | I only learned enough school discipline for graduation from high school. I flunked out of BYU. |
| 18:47.45 | JoshH | i've been taking college pretty slow as well, which is frustrating, but i don't have any other choice |
| 18:47.54 | fozzmoo | levi: What is it about BYU? I've heard that story too many times! |
| 18:47.56 | unum | ya college killed me, because I never had to try in high school |
| 18:48.42 | JoshH | i do well in college, it's just expensive, and i don't always have enough time for it, with my family and full time job |
| 18:48.51 | levi | fozzmoo: BYU is infuriating because it's filled with all the smartest, most disciplined Mormon kids in the world. In order to keep the average GPA reasonable, the classes have to be harder than necessary. |
| 18:48.53 | JoshH | so when i do go, it's not even full time |
| 18:49.35 | unum | no one will marry me so I didn't have the family problem :) |
| 18:49.47 | levi | And they weren't really *hard*, you just had to be disciplined enough to do a lot of seemingly useless work. |
| 18:49.55 | fozzmoo | levi: Ahhh. |
| 18:50.01 | JoshH | i hate the useless work so much |
| 18:50.02 | levi | Some of the religion classes were absolutely awful that way. |
| 18:50.04 | JoshH | but you just have to slog through it |
| 18:50.15 | levi | I had to memorize the section headings to all the D&C sections for a test. |
| 18:50.18 | unum | I wish applied technology centers would do more, or atleast be more accepted |
| 18:50.25 | unum | levi: wow that's really stupid |
| 18:50.26 | JoshH | levi: should have gone to the U :P |
| 18:50.32 | unum | is glad he went to USU |
| 18:50.42 | unum | it was the approriate school for me |
| 18:50.43 | fozzmoo | I've said for a while that a college degree really shows that you're capable of jumping through hoops for 4+ years. Not so much about your ability to do a specific technical skill. |
| 18:51.09 | fozzmoo | heads to a meeting in Provo. |
| 18:51.11 | levi | I actually did well on that test, because I spent hours cramming for it right beforehand. It was in the couple of post-mission semesters that I was motivated and disciplined and did really well. |
| 18:51.23 | JoshH | fozzmoo: it shows that are either able to do what it takes to get a piece of paper, or that are you interested in something enough to get a degree in it. |
| 18:51.45 | unum | I had a really hard time in the cs class where you had to add numbers of different bases together |
| 18:51.50 | unum | it just seemed like busy work |
| 18:51.52 | levi | Degrees aren't a great measure of competence, but being at a university is an incredible asset for someone truly interested in learning. |
| 18:52.05 | unum | understanding the concept,fine but why a whole work sheet? |
| 18:52.27 | unum | I really enjoyed my polisci classes :) |
| 18:52.28 | JoshH | i am truly interested in learning, and always have been. i'd probably be one of those perpetual students if it was possible for me. |
| 18:52.59 | unum | I think I would have prefered a computer program at an applied school |
| 18:53.12 | unum | i did really enjoy some of my computer science classes |
| 18:53.25 | unum | anything taught by steve allen or dr. cannon |
| 18:53.46 | levi | UVU actually has some great opportunities for interested people, too. There's a lot of elective credit, and you can get credit through lots of free-form classes doing projects you're interested in with professors that are willing to sponsor you. |
| 18:54.47 | levi | And the regular classes, while not covering quite as much as at BYU, are not as difficult and don't require as much slogging through assignments. |
| 18:55.14 | unum | I'm sad that they became a university because I'm afraid they'll raise their tuition |
| 18:55.27 | unum | I wish utah had four community colleges that were really cheap |
| 18:57.58 | levi | http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/political-pictures-clinton.jpg |
| 19:00.44 | levi | (funny, not really very political) |
| 19:07.25 | Sargun | hehe |
| 19:15.14 | thesuperbigfrog | maquis: while it's true that under-privileged kids need to know that education is the way out, many of those who *do* know it's the way out get discouraged because of the cost of higher education. How can they afford college tuition and expenses without loans or other forms of debt? |
| 19:24.00 | maquis | thesuperbigfrog: sure, but at least caring about a high school education will help them move in that direction |
| 19:24.34 | maquis | and with financial aid and scholarships, and low-interest student loans, it is at least possible. i've known people who've done it |
| 19:25.17 | maquis | community colleges also help. most of them are lower cost and will still help them move out of their situation |
| 19:26.26 | maquis | even if they still can't afford any higher education immediately, working hard in high school can get them into a position where they can work for a year or two, then start at a community college. |
| 19:27.22 | maquis | or even, they can do a lower-wage job, and display the things they know and their willingness to learn, and that could give them a step up in their job |
| 19:31.08 | high_roller | thats kinda the path I followed |
| 19:36.50 | unum | looks lie cate is throwing a conference on shaping counterterrorism strategy |
| 19:41.09 | unum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:42.01 | *** join/#utah utahcon (n=utahcon@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 19:42.16 | unum | I wonder if I should tell someone at xmission I'm doing that.... |
| 19:43.06 | JoshH | nah, that's not necessary |
| 19:43.15 | Supaplex | JoshH: haha. :) |
| 19:43.23 | JoshH | (if it's your own subnet) |
| 19:43.42 | JoshH | if not and someone complains, someone will tell you not to do it anymore and forward you the complaint |
| 19:43.45 | unum | they are the isp for the subnet I'm scanning |
| 19:43.53 | unum | I'm scanning from linode |
| 19:44.19 | Supaplex | wonders why the ids beacon is going bonkers ;) |
| 19:44.35 | JoshH | nobody here cares, unless we get a complaint |
| 19:44.55 | goozbach | someone is scanning my network |
| 19:45.03 | goozbach | my entire /27... |
| 19:45.22 | unum | whistles |
| 19:45.27 | JoshH | i'll find out who it is and shut off their account! |
| 19:46.08 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:46.17 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:47.01 | Supaplex | matches as21844 then discard |
| 19:53.01 | sjansen | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/12/1757221 |
| 19:53.43 | sjansen | CA might die in 2009?! I am willing to sacrifice as many animals to whatever deity necessary to make sure it does. Who's with me? |
| 19:54.23 | fozzmoo | I thought you meant California. I'd be okay with that. |
| 19:54.31 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp07.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:54.31 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 19:54.53 | elg | ~lart ann |
| 19:54.53 | ibot | says "boot to the head" and knocks ann over |
| 19:56.32 | unum | novell at number one, haven't they been there before |
| 19:57.49 | unum | I'd like to see symnatic and mccaffee go, but fear sells |
| 20:13.12 | unum | http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/01/let_the_remixes_begin.html |
| 20:13.13 | brac | [let the remixes begin (UPDATED) (Lessig Blog)] |
| 20:13.19 | unum | for those of you that don't watch colbert |
| 20:16.45 | sjansen | Canonical won Best Enterprise from Linux Format? What're they smoking over there? |
| 20:18.39 | levi | I've never heard of 'Linux Format' before. |
| 20:18.42 | JoshH | i liked that one magazine that was in the novell bags from utosc |
| 20:18.44 | JoshH | linux pro, i think |
| 20:18.51 | JoshH | but 10 bucks an issue?! |
| 20:19.20 | JoshH | and linux journal is ok |
| 20:22.46 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 20:22.47 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:33.25 | *** join/#utah nobell (n=nobell@c-76-27-11-7.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:38.43 | *** join/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 21:38.51 | mgeary | hey, anyone here know anything about the Groovy+Grails (Java) framework? |
| 21:42.40 | levi | Sounds scary. |
| 21:48.49 | macnewbold | sounds very scary |
| 21:49.03 | macnewbold | aren't there already Java-based MVC tools? |
| 21:50.10 | mgeary | well, that may be, but that's not the point. I've got a client with a G+G app that they want some changes made to |
| 21:54.59 | levi | You're looking for someone to hire to make the changes or someone to point you to information? |
| 21:55.54 | levi | I wonder how someone ends up with a G+G app and no one to make changes to it. |
| 22:04.29 | mgeary | well, my client's original developer is apparently hugely expensive |
| 22:05.09 | mgeary | that development was paid for with a grant, but now they're looking to make tweaks to the app |
| 22:05.34 | elg | sounds like you'd need to know groovy and rails |
| 22:05.47 | elg | based on the name, if you could handle groovy and know the rails way, you'd be able to figure it out |
| 22:05.49 | mgeary | hence my original post |
| 22:06.09 | mgeary | i'm looking for leads on someone who may be interested in some G+G contract work |
| 22:06.22 | mgeary | what i do for this client is different (python). But since they know me, they've asked me about it |
| 22:08.19 | levi | Sorry, can't help you. |
| 22:11.40 | Sargun | Groovy is a weird language |
| 22:14.20 | levi | From what I've seen of it, I'd have to agree. |
| 22:14.39 | levi | "Let's make a language that looks just as ugly as Java, but is all dynamic like Python!" |
| 22:23.27 | harleypig | MONKEYS! |
| 22:24.08 | nobell | He's right. there are monkeys. |
| 22:24.34 | harleypig | big ones and little ones and hairy ones |
| 22:25.14 | nobell | and bald scary ones with big teeth. |
| 22:25.18 | harleypig | and speedos ... don't forget the speedos |
| 22:28.40 | elg | another postcard |
| 22:28.43 | elg | from chimpanzeeeeeees |
| 22:28.58 | mgeary | bah |
| 22:29.18 | harleypig | Here's a monkey in a speedo: http://tinyurl.com/2hjks9 |
| 22:29.26 | elg | mgeary: best of luck finding a groovy programmer. i don't know that i've ever met one. but i have heard of groovy, if that counts |
| 22:29.51 | mgeary | heh. well, that's one better than me. I hadn't even heard of it |
| 22:29.53 | elg | harleypig: can't you do any better than that? |
| 22:30.16 | elg | i got someone on #mythtv all in a huff without even trying |
| 22:30.19 | harleypig | mgeary: you're actually hiring for groovy? that's ... like ... wow dude. |
| 22:30.26 | mgeary | i didn't say that |
| 22:30.28 | harleypig | elg: not on short notice ... |
| 22:30.45 | harleypig | I'm pretty sure there's a perl compiler for groovy somewhere. |
| 22:30.55 | elg | they don't have a bathroom there? or you didn't bring your camera? |
| 22:30.59 | harleypig | oh ... wait ... I'm thinking beatnik |
| 22:31.20 | harleypig | elg: I wanna keep my job thenkyewverramuch |
| 22:31.20 | elg | http://pastie.org/359091 |
| 22:32.22 | elg | don't know why he got all defensive. maybe he's still in denial about how horribly designed mythtv is and my questions were leading him down paths that he didn't like |
| 22:32.49 | elg | i guess that's #mythtv-users |
| 23:22.16 | jackman | has anyone tried a pcmcia sata card? |
| 23:22.23 | harleypig | If my wife doesn't stop signing me up for these txt spam crap things I'm going to spam bomb her phone. |
| 23:22.34 | harleypig | s/wife/ex-wife/ |
| 23:23.44 | tensai | remember the good old days when you'd sign people up for free samples? that was some fun. |
| 23:24.45 | harleypig | I'm tempted to buy her something from one of those porn websites and have it delivered to her home ... where the landlord is so prudish they had to sign a morality clause. |
| 23:27.03 | elg | don't porn shops ship things discreetly? |
| 23:27.20 | elg | you'd have to ask for the transparent wrapping |
| 23:27.37 | harleypig | elg: some don't ... some proudly display what you've ordered. |
| 23:28.09 | levi | elg: I got someone in PLUG all in a huff, too. :) |
| 23:28.11 | harleypig | With big pictures showing exactly what your going to be doing when you open that box ... :> |
| 23:28.29 | elg | :) |
| 23:29.49 | elg | heh. "mp3 won" it won way back with napster |
| 23:30.04 | elg | nothing has even come close to unseating it since 1999 or sooner |
| 23:30.14 | elg | more worse is better |
| 23:30.26 | elg | but really, with wise settings mp3 *is* good enough |
| 23:30.30 | elg | for most things |
| 23:30.39 | elg | small enough, good enough quality |
| 23:30.56 | levi | AAC is making real progress now, though. I would not be sad if Apple switched to mp3 for iTunes Store purchases, but I doubt it'll happen. |
| 23:31.33 | Sargun | harleypig, spam bombing her phone would get you arrested. |
| 23:31.44 | Sargun | believe me. |
| 23:32.22 | levi | elg: The mythtv losers apparently aren't very widely read. ;) |
| 23:33.08 | elg | harleypig: having sargun spam bomb her phone, otoh |
| 23:33.47 | levi | mythtv is such a pile. Kind of like asterisk that way. They're both 'functional enough' though and they're big enough that it'd take too much work to rebuild them the right way. |
| 23:34.19 | harleypig | Sargun: I know ... but I can fantasize. |
| 23:38.39 | Sargun | so, why'd she end up marrying you? |
| 23:38.39 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |
| 23:38.56 | harleypig | Sargun: we were young and stupid |
| 23:39.10 | Sargun | elg, it'd be safer, laws across interstate boundaries are questionable at best. |
| 23:39.12 | elg | levi: yup. |
| 23:39.13 | harleypig | anything you'd get would be one sided. |
| 23:39.18 | Sargun | WCS, the FCC would "interfere" |
| 23:39.28 | Sargun | and then you'd be screwed |
| 23:39.37 | elg | asterisk is cleaning up somewhat |
| 23:39.41 | harleypig | and not in a fun way either |
| 23:39.45 | elg | has been. still far from perfect but not nearly the pile it was |
| 23:39.48 | elg | not sure about myth |
| 23:39.53 | Sargun | harleypig, and she was attractive back then? |
| 23:40.14 | elg | ~popcorn |
| 23:40.15 | ibot | Mmmm, I like E-drama! |
| 23:40.19 | harleypig | Sargun: ? What kind of question is that? |
| 23:40.26 | Sargun | I'm half-joking |
| 23:40.35 | harleypig | Yes, I thought she was attractive ... I still do. |
| 23:40.46 | Sargun | ah, that's good, and well it sucks now. |
| 23:40.53 | harleypig | My problem with her is that she's fucking nuts. |
| 23:40.58 | Sargun | like most women. ;-P |
| 23:41.28 | harleypig | Naw ... most women are slightly nuts. |
| 23:41.43 | Sargun | Hm, I doubt that |
| 23:41.51 | Sargun | but I'll take your word |
| 23:41.54 | harleypig | No more messed in the head than us. |
| 23:42.54 | JoshH | wrong |
| 23:43.04 | JoshH | women are all nuts |
| 23:43.10 | JoshH | but we need them anyway |
| 23:43.20 | JoshH | you just have to learn how to deal with it |
| 23:44.25 | harleypig | I didn't say women weren't nuts ... just that, in general they are about as screwed up as men are. |
| 23:44.29 | harleypig | Just in different ways. |
| 23:44.46 | harleypig | My ex, however, is chock-fulla nuts. |
| 23:45.02 | elg | levi: having used this ipod I won for awhile now I can give my opinion |
| 23:45.42 | elg | i like that it has a lot more space, of course. i like some of the little things that apple always does well, like it pauses when the headphones get yanked out |
| 23:46.14 | elg | the silly circle thing is ok for navigating menus, but their overall navigation and menu system is flawed |
| 23:46.20 | Sargun | JoshH, I'm sure you could find a part of the US where tons of women would want to try their "wild sides" with you |
| 23:46.43 | elg | i hate that the thing is always trying to do coverflow when it's not vertical. i think you can turn it off but i haven't bothered |
| 23:46.49 | JoshH | i didn't mean nuts in that way, sargun |
| 23:46.55 | JoshH | i mean emotional, irrational, etc |
| 23:47.13 | elg | it doesn't handle podcasts very well. especially wrt listening to them |
| 23:47.35 | elg | and itunes doesn't give many useful options for podcast downloading and if you get behind it swamps your ipod and complains about filling up |
| 23:47.38 | Sargun | JoshH, No, that was to be aimed at HP |
| 23:48.04 | harleypig | wow ... talk about split conversations ... |
| 23:48.05 | elg | there's the proprietary battery thing, and since i only have one cable i have to carry it with me or only charge in one place |
| 23:48.20 | elg | harleypig: see, nobody's listening to me, so it's not exactly a conversation |
| 23:48.42 | JoshH | what i hate about itunes is that every time i notice something is hogging my internet connection, i check out the wife's imac, and it's ALWAYS itunes downloading podcasts. other than that, i know almost nothing about it. |
| 23:49.01 | elg | :) |
| 23:49.25 | harleypig | elg: what? |
| 23:49.25 | levi | elg: The iPod interface worked a lot better on the original iPod, before it got feature creep. The new interface features work a lot better on the iPod Touch, where they're not confined to the wheel interface. |
| 23:49.27 | elg | its battery also doesn't last very long, but it's long enough if i remember to plug it in |
| 23:49.56 | elg | my biggest beef with it has to be that you can't play podcasts one after another without making a special playlist |
| 23:50.03 | elg | a hack-around, basically |
| 23:50.13 | elg | when i'm listening to a podcast and it ends, why in the world would I want to just stop? |
| 23:50.20 | elg | go on to the next one dummy |
| 23:50.45 | elg | all in all, i prefer my yepp but i use my ipod because it has more space |
| 23:51.13 | elg | and with that i'm off to try and catch up on a few podcasts. ;-) |
| 23:51.25 | elg | now that i finished the lotr audiobook |
| 23:51.48 | levi | The iPod Touch goes on to the next podcast in the group, but you'd have to make a playlist to play multiple podcasts from different groups. |
| 23:52.05 | levi | Also, you can make on-the-go playlists for multi-podcast playing. |
| 23:52.17 | elg | what is that o-t-g thing? |
| 23:52.31 | elg | i made a smart playlist in itunes that has everything of type podcast |
| 23:52.49 | elg | but it doesn't mark them as listened in the podcast thing, so i have to manually delete them. |
| 23:53.10 | levi | You navigate to each one you want to play, then hold down a button to add them to the playlist. Then you go and select the on-the-go playlist and it plays all of them. |
| 23:54.06 | elg | sounds terribly unuseful |
| 23:54.31 | elg | my yepp has something like that too. i've used it once or twice, mostly when i want to listen to the same 3 songs over and over |
| 23:54.46 | elg | (organ music, soaking in how that performer performed it so i can pick up some tips) |
| 23:54.48 | levi | It's not all that bad if you have a few things you want to listen to and you won't be able to fiddle with it for a while. |
| 23:57.09 | maquis | ~3600*24 |
| 23:57.10 | ibot | 86400 |
| 23:57.18 | maquis | ~botsnack |
| 23:57.18 | ibot | maquis: thanks |
