| 00:02.31 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 00:26.57 | unum | I've done the stuf where I've had to add the modules in the right conf file befoe |
| 00:27.13 | unum | but i touch pam so seldom that I foget about thos things |
| 00:27.34 | unum | how do I type a regex in vim so it includes the end of the line |
| 00:27.39 | unum | I thought I could use \r |
| 00:27.42 | unum | or \r\n |
| 00:27.43 | zzzirk | $ |
| 00:28.07 | zzzirk | ^ == beginning-of-line, $ == end-of-line |
| 00:28.19 | levi | I wrote my own PAM module once. |
| 00:28.40 | levi | These days I care very little about system administration. |
| 00:38.53 | unum | well I want to match it so I replace it |
| 00:38.58 | unum | $ doesn't work for that |
| 00:39.13 | unum | sorry I've got to remember to stick around after I ask a question |
| 00:39.18 | unum | so much to do before I leave |
| 00:39.35 | unum | it was \n |
| 00:55.05 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-071-070-229-150.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:55.05 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 01:20.00 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 01:26.01 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 01:31.42 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:10.51 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@166-70-191-252.ip.xmission.com) |
| 02:39.21 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 02:48.14 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@unaffiliated/jnbek) |
| 02:53.00 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@75-101-13-24.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 03:05.29 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=jayce@74.81.244.222) |
| 03:05.29 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 03:17.17 | *** join/#utah levi_ipod (n=rooms@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:18.46 | levi_ipod | Ars Technica's review of the Palm Pre makes out sound even more interesting. |
| 03:22.44 | levi_ipod | I wonder of they'll sell a non-phone version of it. |
| 03:23.47 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.145.58.209) |
| 03:23.59 | levi_ipod | Also, the scone mix from Lehi Roller Mills is yummy. |
| 03:25.31 | elg | fry bread or english? |
| 03:26.23 | levi_ipod | English, of course. :) |
| 03:28.55 | elg | i was probably 25 before i realized english scones were different |
| 03:29.19 | elg | after trying a recipe and getting something entirely unlike the "scones" i had known |
| 03:30.26 | elg | and yet, what my mom made and called scones aren't exactly like indian fry bread either |
| 03:30.38 | levi_ipod | Yeah, I had a frybread scone upbringing too |
| 03:30.39 | elg | somewhere between fry bread and sopaipillas |
| 03:30.58 | levi_ipod | See |
| 03:31.04 | levi_ipod | We |
| 03:31.12 | levi_ipod | Heh |
| 03:31.17 | elg | stop shaking your ipod! |
| 03:31.25 | elg | you'll give it SIS |
| 03:31.51 | elg | I just finished working up a memory graph in cacti |
| 03:31.59 | elg | the existing options were dumb, to say the least |
| 03:33.10 | levi_ipod | Seems like a Utah/Mormon culture thing |
| 03:34.16 | levi_ipod | Existing options for what? |
| 03:34.49 | elg | graphing memory usage |
| 03:35.25 | elg | the default "memory usage" graph stacks free memory, buffers, and cache |
| 03:35.44 | elg | which doesn't visualize very well, because you have no reference to total memory |
| 03:36.03 | elg | my graph stacks used memory, buffers, cache, free (so you hit the total at this point), then used swap |
| 03:38.37 | levi_ipod | And what's cacti? |
| 03:40.43 | elg | http://www.cacti.net/screenshots.php |
| 03:40.43 | brac | [Cacti: The Complete RRDTool-based Graphing Solution] |
| 03:41.14 | elg | for graphing stuff, primarily using snmp (though not limited to snmp) |
| 03:41.33 | elg | like network usage, cpu, load avg (another idiotic default graph), and memory usage |
| 03:42.19 | levi_ipod | Ahh, SNMP, that's why it sounds familiar |
| 03:44.27 | elg | the load avg graph is epic fail. it stacks - *stacks* - the 1, 5, and 15 minute averages |
| 03:44.52 | elg | so if your load was a steady 15 over the past 15 minutes, the total height of the graph would be 45 |
| 03:44.55 | levi_ipod | Yow |
| 03:45.01 | elg | yeah it's ridiculous |
| 03:45.20 | elg | but that one's easy to fix, making the 1 minute an area and the other two lines |
| 03:45.30 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 03:45.40 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@cgibreak.us.to) |
| 03:48.34 | *** join/#utah levi_ipod_ (n=rooms@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:49.41 | levi_ipod_ | I just lost my wireless link. |
| 03:51.00 | levi_ipod_ | What's the rule for words that don't get capitalized on titles? |
| 03:51.15 | levi_ipod_ | Is of just articles? |
| 03:51.50 | levi_ipod_ | s/of/it |
| 03:52.04 | elg | not sure |
| 03:52.33 | elg | "unimportant? |
| 03:54.28 | levi_ipod_ | I wonder if the people who never talk yet are only in this channel are actually watching? |
| 03:56.45 | Sargun | I say we kick them and see if they rejoin |
| 03:56.56 | Sargun | ~seen memilyrae |
| 03:56.59 | ibot | memilyrae is currently on #utos (1d 16h 21m 18s) #utah (1d 16h 21m 18s), last said: 'herlo: yeah, finally, right?'. |
| 03:57.08 | Sargun | ~seen pelaofeliz |
| 03:57.09 | ibot | pelaofeliz is currently on #utos (11h 7m 50s) #utah (11h 7m 50s) #uphpu (11h 7m 50s), last said: 'IIRC, the 7 years is for it to biodegrade, not digest... '. |
| 03:57.15 | Sargun | ~seen peno |
| 03:57.16 | ibot | peno is currently on #utos (1d 16h 21m 35s) #utah (1d 16h 21m 35s). Has said a total of 6 messages. Is idling for 5h 52m 28s, last said: 'decriptor: why, you want to be able to play WoW anywhere?'. |
| 04:08.37 | *** join/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 04:08.41 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 04:09.04 | mgeary | any rsync experts around, perchance? |
| 04:09.07 | Sargun | hi folk. |
| 04:09.10 | Sargun | what do you want to know |
| 04:09.17 | mgeary | well, i use rsync a lot |
| 04:10.15 | mgeary | but one thing that always bugs me is that when i use the -a option, directories with different ownership get reported as needing to be changed (per the --dry-run option) |
| 04:10.16 | mgeary | is there any way i can tell rsync to generically ignore all directories? |
| 04:12.12 | Sargun | All directories? |
| 04:12.15 | mgeary | yep |
| 04:12.19 | mgeary | i just want it to consider files |
| 04:12.29 | Sargun | why does a directory matter |
| 04:12.34 | mgeary | well, here's the thing |
| 04:13.40 | mgeary | one of the key ways i use rsync is in --dry-run mode. As an example, i've got a production web site where the client modifies static HTML files of their own accord. I'm responsible for dynamic parts of the site. I use rsync to quickly and easily tell me which files have changed, and i can use diff to reconcile necessary changes |
| 04:14.10 | mgeary | but in a large website, with many directories, the --dry-run output is cluttered up with a bunch of directories indicating that they are "out of sync" |
| 04:14.22 | mgeary | i can just do a "| grep -v /$" |
| 04:14.31 | mgeary | but that's a bit of a pain |
| 04:14.35 | mgeary | know what i mean? |
| 04:15.10 | mgeary | alternatively, it'd be nice if i could have rsync ignore ownership/permissions when evaluating changes |
| 04:15.24 | mgeary | since that's presumably why the directories are showing up |
| 04:17.01 | mgeary | hmm |
| 04:17.08 | mgeary | --no-o --no-g |
| 04:18.21 | mgeary | bah |
| 04:18.51 | mgeary | i'd have thought --no-o --no-g --no-p would do it, but directories still show. However, it appears that the --no-X might be the ticket |
| 04:21.32 | Sargun | mgeary, have you thought of not providing -a |
| 04:21.34 | Sargun | and just doing -r |
| 04:22.45 | mgeary | messing around in that direction |
| 04:23.34 | mgeary | ah HA |
| 04:23.41 | mgeary | it's the -t that was tripping it |
| 04:24.42 | mgeary | sure enough |
| 04:24.49 | mgeary | whew, this is super |
| 04:46.30 | Sargun | Super cool, yeah! |
| 04:56.53 | mgeary | can't tell you how long that's bothered me |
| 04:58.22 | Sargun | no, not really. |
| 05:10.34 | *** join/#utah undertakingyou (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:14.04 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@69.169.142.45.provo.static.broadweave.net) |
| 05:14.59 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-14-195.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 05:14.59 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 05:15.21 | Supaplex | http://xkcd.com/526/ sweet |
| 05:15.22 | brac | [xkcd - A Webcomic - Converting to Metric] |
| 05:17.15 | Sargun | Supaplex, yes? |
| 05:17.41 | Supaplex | xkcd is indeed entertaining |
| 05:20.44 | Sargun | I agree |
| 06:27.56 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_ (n=tristanb@ubuntu/member/tristanbob) |
| 07:31.56 | *** join/#utah tedp (n=ted@arcueid.lazypants.org) |
| 07:32.00 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@komodo.mcnabbs.org) |
| 07:49.24 | *** part/#utah high_roller (n=heath@host-12-152-163-48.preciscom.net) |
| 07:53.07 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@komodo.mcnabbs.org) |
| 07:58.36 | *** join/#utah tedp (n=ted@arcueid.lazypants.org) |
| 08:14.11 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (n=supaplex@166.70.62.193) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:06.23 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@unaffiliated/jnbek) |
| 10:21.33 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@unaffiliated/jnbek) |
| 12:57.03 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-166-126-92.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:48.41 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-14-195.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 13:48.41 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 13:51.57 | *** join/#utah utahcon (n=utahcon@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 14:21.25 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:24.01 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-d6b4665c7aaf9e9c) |
| 14:24.01 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 14:58.18 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-113-14-195.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 14:58.18 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 15:04.02 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:21.20 | *** join/#utah mabes (n=mabes@mail.cirrusdata.com) |
| 15:25.50 | *** part/#utah mabes (n=mabes@mail.cirrusdata.com) |
| 15:59.21 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp07.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:59.21 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 16:00.35 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=jayce@office2.bluehost.com) |
| 16:00.35 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 16:02.53 | elg | as a followup to my speed observations yesterady i finally pinned down the bandwidth on my acct (i didn't ask when i signed up, bec. it didn't matter to me very much). it's apparently a well-hidden economy plan, 1mbit down 348kbit up |
| 16:03.43 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@66.151.148.225) |
| 16:04.12 | elg | so it's actually a bit slower than my dsl link. so there you have full disclosure. still, latency is a separate issue |
| 16:04.57 | elg | i'm seeing bouts of bad latency and a little packet loss every half hour or so |
| 16:06.36 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 16:06.46 | Sargun | elg, go back to DSL |
| 16:07.00 | elg | sure, you spot me $20/month and I'll be happy to |
| 16:07.24 | elg | i'm not dissatisfied - a little latency and speed is worth $20/month in the pocket for me right now |
| 16:07.30 | elg | just observations |
| 16:07.47 | levi | Huh. I had no idea they had such a slow plan. |
| 16:08.09 | elg | neither did i. it wasn't easy to fine any reference to it online. wasn't even easy to find which plan I was on |
| 16:08.21 | levi | I wonder if the poor latency is an intentional degradation. |
| 16:08.59 | elg | in a few days i'll be able to see if there's any patterns. probably mornings and evvenings |
| 16:09.27 | elg | do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained by the working hoardes watching youtube |
| 16:19.47 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 16:36.02 | elg | sed problem of the day |
| 16:36.40 | elg | mail log, want to gather the from and to address of mail rejected by MSN "for policy reasons" (i.e. because i forgot to set a mail relay and they don't accept mail from comcast dynamic IPs) |
| 16:36.52 | elg | the from and to are on separate lines |
| 16:39.54 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@97-117-58-214.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:39.57 | sjansen | http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/08/5-time-management-tricks-i-learned-from-years-of-hating-tim-ferriss/ |
| 16:40.00 | elg | http://pastebin.ca/1304346 |
| 16:40.06 | elg | for example input |
| 16:40.38 | elg | not sure if it can be done (reliably) with sed, since you're not guaranteed there's not spurious info in between and you have to match on the id (72CB6A33761) to be sure it's the same email |
| 16:40.46 | elg | but if anyone wants to prove me wronge |
| 16:41.29 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@208.110.152.42) |
| 16:46.29 | sjansen | ~spell wronge |
| 16:46.43 | sjansen | elg: There you go. I'll send you my bill later. |
| 16:46.51 | elg | thx |
| 16:48.40 | fungus | no, you're right. I usually just use perl to parse it, store the data in a hash keyed by id, and spew out the data afterwards. |
| 16:52.40 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=woodsdog@nat/novell/x-8b0c9b9030cc4055) |
| 16:57.21 | *** join/#utah manithree (n=blr@c-76-27-63-88.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:58.05 | elg | yeah i think i'll do that too (ruby) |
| 16:58.44 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 16:59.15 | *** join/#utah gshipley_ (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-71f0b11c22e5df2b) |
| 16:59.24 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq_ (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:04.37 | *** join/#utah high_roller (n=heath@host-12-152-163-48.preciscom.net) |
| 17:06.32 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 17:08.24 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 17:22.44 | sjansen | We live in amazing times! |
| 17:22.46 | sjansen | http://www.mininova.org/tor/347217 |
| 17:23.02 | sjansen | Wizard of Speed and Time is available free and legal! |
| 17:23.27 | sjansen | No longer will people look at me strange when I say it was the greatest movie ever. Now I can prove it! |
| 17:26.26 | *** join/#utah jottley (n=jottley@c-71-199-12-242.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:34.04 | Supaplex | fungus: sup :) |
| 17:36.00 | fungus | Writing a response to VMware support's claim that underscores require quoting or escaping when used as arguments at the shell command line. |
| 17:37.47 | Supaplex | ha! |
| 17:38.13 | fungus | exactly. I am not pleased. |
| 17:41.55 | elg | sjansen: the short or the long one? |
| 17:42.33 | sjansen | short? |
| 17:42.40 | sjansen | long? |
| 17:42.46 | elg | wikipedia says there's a short and a feature-length |
| 17:42.50 | elg | you can watch the short on youtube |
| 17:44.51 | sjansen | Well, at 3.2 GB it had better not be the short. |
| 17:45.09 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:48.20 | elg | :) i think the download is the feature, but what were *you* referring to? :) |
| 17:51.24 | *** join/#utah jottley (n=jottley@c-71-199-12-242.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.54 | sjansen | Silly elg, I did say movie didn't I? |
| 17:58.36 | *** join/#utah markl__ (n=mark@c-67-186-245-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:00.55 | elg | anyone know (succinctly) the difference between buffers and cache? |
| 18:07.45 | mrpull-lt | elg: speed? it probably depends on what tech. |
| 18:08.03 | sjansen | Depends entirely on context. |
| 18:08.20 | elg | linux memory stats |
| 18:08.23 | elg | e.g. from free |
| 18:08.48 | mrpull-lt | my understanding is buffers are temp space for transfers |
| 18:08.56 | mrpull-lt | cache is fast space for frequently used data |
| 18:09.05 | sjansen | To me, a C programmer, a buffer is any chunk of malloc'd memory, whereas a cache implies persistence, generally as an optimization. |
| 18:09.10 | mrpull-lt | it could be totally wrong WRT the kernel |
| 18:09.40 | elg | right, i don't think the kernel cares what you think as a c programmer |
| 18:10.01 | elg | it's my understanding that they're both related to disk caching, but i'm not sure in what subtle way they differ |
| 18:10.25 | sjansen | In the case of the kernel, I would guess that buffers are used for IO and cache is for persistence of frequently accessed data. |
| 18:10.42 | elg | that's my best guess so far too |
| 18:13.08 | mrpull-lt | agreed |
| 18:27.43 | goozbach | so a co-worker of mine is looking at profiling data for java |
| 18:28.29 | goozbach | the byte class takes ... 816 bytes to represent in memory |
| 18:28.45 | elg | :) |
| 18:31.56 | *** join/#utah whiteinge (n=whiteing@166-70-191-39.ip.xmission.com) |
| 18:39.02 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@wsddevdude.weber.k12.ut.us) |
| 18:46.48 | *** join/#utah brac_ (n=rbot@c-76-113-14-195.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 19:05.04 | unum | so I have a program that I can run my doing this "program<instructions.txt" |
| 19:05.24 | unum | I want to be able to type all the instructions in at the command line rather than creating a file |
| 19:05.27 | unum | how do I do that |
| 19:09.41 | goozbach | echo "instructions" | program |
| 19:09.53 | goozbach | < redirects STDIN |
| 19:10.01 | goozbach | echo prints to STDOUT |
| 19:10.10 | unum | should I be able use \n for new lines |
| 19:10.22 | goozbach | | turns STDOUT of the left side into STDIN of the right side |
| 19:10.27 | goozbach | as long as you use " |
| 19:10.33 | goozbach | echo " |
| 19:10.49 | goozbach | echo "this\nis\na\nlong\ninstruction" |
| 19:11.06 | goozbach | needs to be echo -e |
| 19:12.49 | unum | I think my shell is eating my echo command |
| 19:14.08 | unum | darn it, it is eating it |
| 19:14.14 | Tene | unum: just run 'program' |
| 19:14.17 | Tene | and what happens? |
| 19:14.24 | unum | I get a prompt |
| 19:15.03 | Tene | a prompt to type your instructions at? |
| 19:15.07 | unum | /bin/echo -e |
| 19:15.11 | unum | Tene: yes |
| 19:15.17 | Tene | Isn't that what you want? |
| 19:15.23 | unum | well the first instruction |
| 19:15.31 | unum | no I want to run this from a script |
| 19:15.36 | Tene | unum: ah |
| 19:15.39 | unum | thanks goozbach it was the -e I needed |
| 19:16.20 | Tene | unum: program <<INSTRUCTIONS |
| 19:16.21 | Tene | instr1 |
| 19:16.23 | Tene | instr2 |
| 19:16.24 | Tene | etc |
| 19:16.27 | Tene | INSTRUCTIONS |
| 19:16.45 | unum | that wasn't working so well for some reason |
| 19:17.11 | unum | actaully I think goozback explained those reasons pretty well.... |
| 19:17.18 | Tene | reads |
| 19:19.06 | Tene | I don't see gooz talking about that recently... when did he explain that? |
| 19:19.27 | goozbach | unum: I didn't explain bash heredocs |
| 19:19.49 | goozbach | < redirects stdin from the contents of a file |
| 19:20.28 | unum | I don't understand why we're not using bash |
| 19:20.31 | goozbach | << HEREDOC # ( a "HEREDOC" ) redirects STDIN interactivly from the console |
| 19:20.38 | goozbach | what are you using? |
| 19:20.48 | unum | the IT manager says both csh and bash have their drawbacks |
| 19:21.00 | goozbach | so you're using sh |
| 19:21.05 | goozbach | or perlsh? |
| 19:21.08 | unum | he's yet to explain to me how tcsh is in any way superior to bash |
| 19:21.10 | unum | tcsh |
| 19:21.23 | goozbach | he's an elitist |
| 19:21.26 | goozbach | BASH is just fine |
| 19:21.39 | goozbach | let me guess, he's a python bigot as well |
| 19:21.56 | unum | I think he learned on csh, so since bash has behavior he doesn't expect it "has draw backs" |
| 19:22.18 | unum | actually no we don't use python because he couldn't handle the white space sensetivity |
| 19:22.29 | unum | it's all about what he's used |
| 19:22.31 | unum | to |
| 19:24.13 | sjansen | Friends don't let friends use csh. |
| 19:24.39 | unum | sjansen: agreed |
| 19:24.50 | Tene | yarly |
| 19:24.56 | sjansen | goozbach: How much memory does each instance of the byte class take? |
| 19:33.52 | *** topic/#utah by Tene -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Have you been putting something in my gumbo, baby? | ââ |
| 19:35.13 | goozbach | sjansen: that's each instance |
| 19:37.50 | sjansen | thinks Tene's topic edit is part of an evil alien conspiracy |
| 19:43.53 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@slcl007.digis.net) |
| 20:16.06 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=jayce@office2.bluehost.com) |
| 20:16.06 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 20:19.01 | levi | ksh ftw! |
| 20:28.27 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Have you been putting something in my gumbo, baby? | ââ | The difference between women and me is that men look before they sit on the toilet. |
| 20:48.24 | sjansen | elg: Seems to me that's only the tip of the iceberg. |
| 20:54.26 | elg | my mother, being mother of 6 boys, must have learned to look sometime. it was never an issue at our house. |
| 20:54.56 | goozbach | elg: was it a one-bathroom house? |
| 20:54.57 | elg | i was amazed and amused that my wife expected all men to put down the toilet seat |
| 20:55.15 | elg | goozbach: no, but she used all the bathrooms |
| 20:55.46 | elg | i let her train me, but it doesn't stop me from being amused |
| 20:56.48 | elg | in fact, i think it was preferred at our house to have the seat up all the time |
| 20:56.57 | elg | then young boys with bad aim wouldn't get the seat wet |
| 20:57.03 | elg | you knew the seat would be dry when you had to sit |
| 20:57.22 | elg | i guess we're just pragmatic |
| 20:57.57 | Jayce^ | elg, I agree, where a seat can have an all open, all close, or half of each state, why do women insist on the middle state as a default? |
| 20:58.36 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (n=hearts@unaffiliated/heartsbane) |
| 20:58.44 | elg | men don't have any trouble checking before sitting |
| 20:59.21 | elg | i actually think all closed is a good default |
| 20:59.36 | elg | we've had things fall in the toilet and clog it |
| 20:59.40 | elg | soap, etc. |
| 20:59.55 | elg | and thene everyone has the same workload |
| 21:00.21 | elg | next time someone's getting married i'm gonna tell them to insist on full toilet seat closure |
| 21:00.29 | elg | that'll be amusing :) |
| 21:00.53 | goozbach | that should be something that every engaged couple talks about |
| 21:01.17 | Tene | I *really* don't get the toilet seat thing. |
| 21:01.27 | elg | it would be interesting to do a study on women who expect toilet seats to be down |
| 21:01.29 | ^Migs^ | my wife actually complains about me leaving the toilet seat DOWN |
| 21:01.34 | ^Migs^ | or toilet lid, rather |
| 21:02.01 | ^Migs^ | Tene: It's easy. Women just get embarassed because they don't check first, and like typical females, they try to lash out and blame someone else. |
| 21:02.12 | elg | family background, male siblings, mother's expectation, mother's assertiveness |
| 21:02.20 | elg | that sort of thing. see what the cause of this disease is |
| 21:03.26 | elg | i think it'll boil down to (stereotypically) men are pragmatic and women are idealistic. to them it *should* be down. the men just want to not rock the boat so they just put the seat down |
| 21:05.08 | Jayce^ | my wife demands seat down, lid up |
| 21:05.39 | Tene | That's pretty absurd, IMO |
| 21:05.51 | elg | i set the topic because i almost had an incident in the men's restroom. I didn't look until it was almost too late. when you're trained to put the seat down you have to be careful not to get complacent about sitting. |
| 21:06.08 | elg | Tene: I agree. |
| 21:06.24 | elg | there should be no grounds for complaint because the seat is *too* down |
| 21:07.15 | elg | Jayce^: you can be our guinea pig. develop some kind of phobia or something that means you must have the seat all the way closed when not in use |
| 21:07.36 | elg | then come to a compromise that you'll either close it all the way or none of the way, see which way it falls. we'll be waiting :) |
| 21:13.32 | Tene | I get freaked out by closed shower curtains in an empty bathroom. It's the only irrational phobia I've noticed that I have. |
| 21:13.52 | Tene | I always open the shower curtain any time I enter a bathroom where it's closed. |
| 21:13.56 | Tene | (provided it's opaque) |
| 21:14.27 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (n=hearts@unaffiliated/heartsbane) |
| 21:15.50 | elg | Tene: watch too many horror movies? :) |
| 21:16.04 | elg | my wife likes it closed because it reduces mildew |
| 21:18.27 | jshipley | Tene: the best solution would be to get a clear shower curtain |
| 21:19.37 | elg | clear shower curtains are more fun anyway |
| 21:20.01 | jshipley | I've been told (not by my wife... she's pretty cool about that sort of thing) that having the lid down is just as bad as leaving the seat up |
| 21:21.32 | jshipley | Either way could cause problems when you sit down and go without bothering to check first |
| 21:21.33 | ^Migs^ | That's pretty stupid. |
| 21:21.47 | jshipley | The whole argument is pretty stupid |
| 21:21.57 | sjansen | Speaking hygienically, lid down makes the most sense. Speaking equitably, leaving it your preferred way is most equitably. In a 2 person family, everyone has a 50% of being forced to adjust the seat. |
| 21:21.57 | ^Migs^ | Do females just not check before they plant their butts down somewhere? |
| 21:22.05 | ^Migs^ | What if someone left a cactus in your chair? |
| 21:22.24 | unum | I always close it, because I'm afraid of droping things |
| 21:22.36 | unum | especially in my master bathroom where I have things on the counter |
| 21:23.12 | ^Migs^ | I close it, because the cat likes to drink out of it |
| 21:23.49 | elg | haha. there you go. solution: get a cat |
| 21:24.41 | elg | the only problem with leaving the lid all the way down is if she begins before she's fully seated |
| 21:26.03 | sjansen | "I'm sorry, dear, but as a modern male I feel that leaving the seat down would be too sexist. I don't want to degrade you by treating you differently." |
| 21:27.06 | eightyeight | anyone else see the FSF "victory" over drm on vista? |
| 21:27.14 | elg | no |
| 21:27.17 | sjansen | A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. And a man needs to put the seat down like a fish needs a doily. |
| 21:27.41 | eightyeight | http://is.gd/f3iW if this is a victory, then what do the classify as a failure? |
| 21:27.56 | eightyeight | s/the/they/ |
| 21:28.28 | eightyeight | vistas failure had nothing to do with the FSF |
| 21:28.32 | eightyeight | it's just sad |
| 21:28.59 | sjansen | What, you expected them to admit defeat? |
| 21:29.30 | eightyeight | no. i expected them to keep running the campaign (even if it wasn't reaching a soul worth a darn) |
| 21:31.44 | elg | vista is actually pretty cool for windows, except for in the ways that it's terrible |
| 21:32.13 | elg | i mean, if i had to use a windows i might haev a hard time deciding between vista and xp |
| 21:32.43 | maquis | i'd take vista over xp |
| 21:33.15 | sjansen | If I couldn't stop using computers, and I had to use Windows, I'd take Vista. |
| 21:33.20 | Tene | "I might have a hard time choosing between the eight-year-old release and its upgrade" is pretty horrible praise. |
| 21:33.48 | maquis | er |
| 21:33.54 | maquis | wow... i just said the opposite of what i want |
| 21:33.59 | maquis | i'd avoid vista |
| 21:34.25 | sjansen | I'm no Windows expert, but most of the belly aching seems to be people who don't want to deal with change. |
| 21:34.33 | elg | sjansen: what if you had to use windows but you could stop using computers? how would you manage that? |
| 21:35.03 | *** join/#utah Tadaka (n=Tadaka@c-67-177-61-219.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.35 | sjansen | If I had to use a computer, and it had to have Windows, I'd use Vista. If I could just stop using computers instead of using Windows, I'd probably go that path. |
| 21:35.46 | elg | in my limited vista exposure it boils down to (for me): vista is too complainy about security, it's a resource hog, and that drm stuff (not that i've tried to do any media whatsoever on vista) |
| 21:35.52 | fungus | If you were forced to choose Windows, you are usually forced into a specific version. |
| 21:36.32 | sjansen | fungus: It's my nightmare. I get to set the rules. |
| 21:36.53 | elg | no, we get to impose our rules into your nightmare |
| 21:36.55 | fungus | lol, remind me to never visit your nightmare |
| 21:36.59 | elg | like, you have to have harleypig wallpaper |
| 21:51.15 | *** part/#utah manithree (n=blr@c-76-27-63-88.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.31 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 22:07.59 | *** join/#utah shalkie (n=shalkie@97-117-58-214.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:09.37 | *** join/#utah jlp_work_ (n=jlp@67.106.37.5) |
| 22:24.19 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@65-100-213-64.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:24.19 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 22:25.00 | findlay | -chat about ~onjoin findlay |
| 22:25.00 | brac | ~onjoin findlay -chat ~say -chat ~shoot convolution |
| 22:25.00 | ibot | ok, brac |
| 22:58.45 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 23:44.11 | *** join/#utah Rolcol (n=Rolcol@unaffiliated/rolcol) |