IRC log for #utah on 20081124

00:42.41goozbachyay! fixed grub
00:43.18fozzmoogoozbach: yay
00:44.39goozbachhad to download a fedora 9 live cd on my wife's computer, but I got it fixed!
00:44.51goozbachnow to clean up my USB hard drive so I can backup my stuff
00:45.01goozbachnothing like a good scare to get you back into the backup mood
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05:01.47elgA SECOND MORE SIGNIFICANT DISTURBANCE IS EXPECTED TO BRING
05:01.48elgSCATTERED RAIN SHOWERS FROM LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH
05:01.48elgTHANKSGIVING DAY INTO MIDDAY FRIDAY.
05:01.50elgbuahaha
05:01.53elgtake that football players
05:02.23Supaplex~pal football players
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05:15.20tristanbobfozzmoo, how can you dislike commercial open source?
05:15.51tristanbobthe commercial part usually employs developers on the open source part of the project
05:25.11tensaitristanbob: some of them feel like they're just reinventing 80's shareware
05:27.43tensaifozzmoo: I do a lot of mail migrations using imapsync
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05:40.45tensaielg: I switched firefox to use ipv6.google.com for my searches. seems to be working well.
05:56.35leviJust played a couple of games of Ticket to Ride.
05:56.38leviFun game. :)
05:57.47elgyes, it is :)
05:57.54elgjust played puerto rico. it was fun
06:34.44Tenetristanbob: he mentioned a specific issue shortly after.
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15:50.24elghttp://dl.getdropbox.com/u/278074/bald.jpg
15:51.20levielg: Now you look evil. :)
15:51.42elgtruth in advertising
15:53.50leviReminds me of a roommate that shaved his head.
15:54.02elgwas he as awesome as me?
15:54.52leviWell, probably slightly less awesome in quantity, but a very different quality of awesome. ;)
15:55.09leviHe did finally wise up and marry the cool girl we always hung out with, though.
15:57.18leviAnyway, what's Puerto Rico like?
15:57.25levi(I mean the game, of course)
15:57.34Jayce^I dunno elg with that lampshade behind/above you, you look like a krishna
15:58.31elg:)
15:58.50elgthis is a temporary foto
16:00.34elglevi: it's fun
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16:00.35goozbachelg is evil!?
16:00.38goozbachwho knew
16:00.51elgit reminds me more than any other game has of a game we played relentlessly a long time ago
16:00.53elgTai-Pan
16:01.09elgthat game had phases too and was fairly complicated
16:01.29elgPR is a lot easier to learn than I thought it would be
16:01.54elgmy wife caught on and didn't get frustrated
16:01.54leviIs Tai-Pan a game where you wander around a big store buying cheap imported decorative items?
16:02.11elgno, you're opium/spice traiders
16:02.20elgbased on the shogun books i guess
16:03.37leviAh, never read the Shogun books.
16:03.57leviMan, how crappy to start the day with heartburn.
16:10.43tristanbob_levi, it could be third-degree burn
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16:10.55leviYes, that would be worse.
16:11.06leviHah, Dilbert mocks scrum.
16:11.11tristanbob_third-degree heartburn would be even worse
16:14.00leviredbeard2: I have some Knight Family Honey honey butter.  Yum!
16:19.13leviUgh, Ayn Rand.
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16:20.58*** topic/#utah by sjansen -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Fedora 10 Arrives Tuesday, Nov 25
16:20.59elg-lart sjansen
16:21.00bracForces sjansen to learn the Win32 API
16:21.09sjansennoooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:21.20sjansen~punish elg for his cruelty
16:21.21ibotACTION duct-tapes elg to the floor and drools on him for his cruelty
16:21.28leviforces sjansen to read Ayn Rand.
16:21.53*** topic/#utah by elg -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Fedora 10 whisked under a falling stone door Tuesday, Nov 25
16:22.01sjansenAlready done it. I actually enjoyed her writing. Although I thought The Fountainhead was better than Atlas Shrugged.
16:22.19elg-urls
16:22.19leviMan, she's a wretched hack.
16:22.19bracno urls seen yet for channel #utah
16:22.25elgwhatever dumb bot
16:22.34elgsjansen: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/278074/bald.jpg
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16:23.40leviWell, maybe she got better after Anthem, but I couldn't read any more after that.
16:23.55sjansenelg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:B5_londo.jpg
16:24.30sjansenThe nicest thing I can say about Anthem was that it's one of her shorter books.
16:24.49sjansenOddly, though, it felt like more of a slog than Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead.
16:25.10sjansenelg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:B5_londo.jpg
16:25.40fozzmoolevi: That's funny. She said the same thing about you. ;-)
16:26.00leviI really don't understand the love for Rand and Objectivism in LDS culture.
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16:26.51fozzmooAdmittedly, there are some LDS men who take the Rand philosophy too far and think it's all about materialism.
16:28.01sjansenhuh?
16:28.03leviThe very core tenets of Mormonism and Objectivism are at odds.
16:28.53JoshHi don't understand the love for casserole and david archuleta in LDS culture
16:29.07leviCasserole can be yummy.
16:29.13^Migs^and then some of us LDS men don't give a flying flip about any of that stuff
16:29.16JoshHi do like funeral potatoes though
16:29.20^Migs^except Archy-boy.  He's mah hero.
16:29.46^Migs^well, he used to be, but now I don't even have any interest in listening to his music
16:30.45goozbachmaybe I should read Atlas Shrugged
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16:30.49goozbachmeh
16:30.54goozbachit's a *BIG* book
16:31.09goozbachImma gonna finish the seeker books
16:31.12sjansenfozzmoo: I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you trying to defend Objectivism by saying it is misunderstood? Or are you agreeing that some Mormon abandon their faith to materialism after being exposed to Objectivism?
16:32.28fozzmooI think some Mormon men read Rand and, they don't abandon their faith, but they think the key to "success" is buying big boats, trailers, cars, tv, etc.
16:32.47fozzmooI've only heard of this phenomenon from a friend of mine. I haven't actually met anyone like that.
16:33.17Jayce^goozbach, seeker == sword of truth?
16:33.22Jayce^referring to that?
16:33.30sjansenI find it hard to believe. I'm betting TV and magazine ads are more likely to cause boat buying.
16:33.54elgor maybe enjoyment of watersport
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16:34.36sjansenRand's writing is pretty obviously not about materialism. It's about deliberate selfishness, excelling though hard work and self confidence instead of sitting around waiting for someone else to solve your problems.
16:35.02fozzmooRight.
16:35.34fozzmooAnd these men, apparently, mean that all that hard work and selfishness means... buy whatever you want, everyone else be damned.
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16:37.07sargun-palm~time
16:37.08iboti guess time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2008.11.24 16:37:08 GMT
16:37.28elgyou might as well misunderstand objectivism to mean work hard and be self-reliant
16:38.55sjansenAny two non-parallel lines will eventually intersect without joining. Because Rand starts from a starkly anti-Christian position, on the surface she may seem to have some reasonable positions, but followed to their natural result you end up with something very different from LDS doctrine.
16:39.42sargun-palm~ping
16:39.43ibot~pong
16:40.28sjansenRand should be held at arms length. Remembered, but not taken too seriously. Otherwise, her reality distortion field will, well... distort your reality.
16:41.06^Migs^hahaha http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/21/national/main4626367.shtml
16:41.19^Migs^Obama isn't even president yet, and elementary schools are already renaming themselves after him
16:41.29sjansenJust like "doctrine" you head in a High Priests meeting.
16:41.40sjansens/head/hear/
16:42.31elgsjansen: you don't need to go to HP group to get shoddy doctrine
16:42.38elgthough they have the most fun (between naps)
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16:50.48sjansenshansen_: There can be only one!
16:51.28levisjansen: I mean, Rand's arch enemies are mysticism and collectivism.  The LDS church is essentially a mystic collective.
16:51.51sjansenThat dabbled in collectivism.
16:52.08leviIt's still staunchly collectivist.
16:53.21leviNo 'dabble' about it.
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16:53.53sjansenWell, I'd reserve the term "staunchly" for Cuba. Except for perhaps the missionary program, the collectivist dream is on hold until people are ready to actually make it work.
16:53.55leviSure, the form of collectivism is less dramatic than the United Order days.
16:54.37levisjansen: Collectivism != Communism, though the latter is a form of it.
16:54.59leviThere are voluntary collectives as well, and I'm pretty sure Rand is as opposed to those as mandatory ones.
16:56.43sjansenI'm aware of that. Apparently though, my personal definition of collectivism doesn't quite match Wikipedia.
16:56.54leviWhat's your personal definition?
16:58.31sjansenI always assumed it was more shard property based than a philosophical view point.
16:58.47sjansenIf Wikipedia is actually correct, I concede the point.
16:59.08^Migs^wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica
17:00.41sjansenFor certain topics.
17:00.59sjansenIf this were a question about a Simpson's episode, I would have no doubt.
17:01.13leviOr Star Trek.
17:01.34leviI was speaking of collectivism in the philisophical sense.
17:03.11leviThough mandatory tithing/fast offerings are a very material property related aspect of it.
17:12.53leviAlthough we don't get a very complete picture of Korihor's philosophy, it does mesh pretty well with that of Rand in a few respects: http://tinyurl.com/5bjnyx
17:15.11leviThough, to be fair, most secular philosophers would end up in the same boat.
17:22.12elgugh
17:22.23elghates the monday morning "figure out what i was doing and what i need to do now" drill
17:22.32leviYeah.
17:24.14leviMan, am I weird for just wanting an actual prompt and maybe a small bit of path in my unix prompt?
17:24.32fozzmoolevi: I'm with you on that.
17:24.46elgditto
17:24.54elgthough I do have a colored $
17:25.01elgto make vgrepping easier
17:25.32levi"Here's what I wanted behind my prompt: [12 bullet points snipped] That's it.  Not much really."
17:25.55sjansen/me likes him a huge prompt
17:28.00elghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Norris_Facts
17:28.09elgoh, wrong window
17:28.21elghere's my prompt
17:28.21elgfugalh@saruman:~/phd/code
17:28.21elg$
17:28.35fozzmooMulti-line?
17:28.39harleypigphd?
17:28.43elgcolored $ on some systems. not on others (mostly depending on the bash version)
17:28.57elgsome versions of bash really screwed up the non-printing character stuff
17:29.04fozzmooI may be the minority in liking a single-line prompt.
17:29.05elgyeah, multi-line
17:29.15harleypigfozzmoo: I prefer single line prompts
17:29.16fozzmooI also like 80-column terminals.
17:29.18leviI like single-line, too, but multi-line can be nice as well.
17:29.18elgI was staunchly single-line for a long time
17:29.37harleypigor, prompts that dump data onto the top or bottome of the screen and maintain position.
17:29.45elgbut my proclivity for 80-column terminals and the utter inability for bash and terminals to get the whole wrapping thing right
17:30.11elgi finally went with the $ on its own so I have the whole 80 columns before it starts to wrap
17:30.18fozzmoowishes he could live his whole life piped to 'less -S'
17:30.38elgi'm sure you could
17:30.42elgif you wanted it bad enough
17:30.53fozzmooyeah.
17:31.12fozzmooI don't like prompts that only show you part of your path.
17:31.19fozzmooI show the whole path on mine...
17:31.29fozzmooand admittedly, it gets... cluttered.
17:31.42elgi'm whole-path too
17:31.49elgthough i don't eschew ~
17:32.16elgoh, i forgot an important aspect of my prompt
17:32.28elgecho $PS1
17:32.28elg$(r=$?; [ 0 == $r ] || echo "\[\e[0;33m\]$r\[\e[0m\] ")\u@\h:\w\n\$
17:32.32leviI typically just use the default prompt.
17:32.45leviIt's just a freakin' place to type stuff. :)
17:32.54elgthat first bit prints the return (in yellow) if it's not 0
17:32.58fozzmoo[%m]%/ %!%# (zsh)
17:35.19elglevi: i only change the prompt if A) the default has no path information or B) I use that system a whole lot
17:45.27RyanEWhat's this 'prompt' you guys keep talking about?  I just move the mouse thingie and click around a lot.  :)
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18:00.22goozbachI don't worry much about my prompt, but I do like a nice customized .bashrc
18:00.47goozbachI've even created a ~/.profile.d/ directory I throw my shell init stuff in
18:01.02goozbachand that's managed via revision control :)
18:01.30goozbachI have a fancy ssh-agent starting script i'm trying to get working on fedora with gnome
18:07.21^Migs^http://picdit.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/a-20-year-old-model-photographed-as-if-she-were-10-20-30-40-50-and-60-years-old/
18:18.12Sargun_Screeno you hire a web designer whose car is purple, and has web villian spread out all over i in orange?
18:23.16^Migs^I fail to see the problem
18:33.08jsmithgoozbach: fancy ssh-agent starting script?
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18:36.46bbeattieAnyone have an opinion on using godaddy's DNS servers vs running your own (for a personal domain)?  
18:41.49sjansenI like zoneedit for a personal domain.
18:42.35sjansenI like that zoneedit is registrar independent  and more redundant that my one little virtual host.
18:42.52goozbachjsmith: it's a work in progress
18:43.00goozbachit's working on debian right now, but not on fedora
18:43.12goozbachit conflicts with the ssh agent which gnome starts
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18:44.48tensaiagrees with sjansen about zoneedit
18:59.13Sargun_Screen2couldn't sun hav hired GVR to make them a language?
19:03.06elg~undertake you
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20:31.33^Migs^http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94LG7C01&show_article=1
20:31.41^Migs^<PROTECTED>
20:41.38leviWTF, when did mountain bikers start using 29" wheels?
20:46.17elgis that big or small?
20:46.25tensaielg: that was my question too
20:46.34leviStandard MTB size is 26".
20:46.51leviThe 29" are the same diameter as 700c road bike wheels.
21:05.17harleypighttp://imagenebula.com/?task=view&id=2149
21:05.18brac[ImageNebula - Free Image Sharing with your friends!]
21:05.24harleypigJayce^ just sent that to me ...
21:05.26harleypigwoah
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21:14.10^Migs^whoa
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21:32.15harleypigI have a new name for my day-glo speedos: keep'em-ins (barely)!
21:32.19harleypigyour welcome.
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21:39.49high_rollermy favorite name has always been banana hammock
21:39.53high_rollerfor speedos
21:42.33harleypigbut what about the coconuts?
21:43.02elgbaoding?
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22:04.35goozbachis google down or is it just me?
22:04.56goozbach~google is google down or is it just me
22:05.56Sargunhttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com
22:10.07synichaha.
22:10.56eightyeightheh
22:12.29jsmithSargun: That's almost as good as http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=google.com
22:12.30brac[Let me google that for you]
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22:17.33SargunNo, google is having issues
22:22.59mrpullharleypig: those bee pictures are giving me the willies
22:25.18SargunThe sky is falling, Err, I mean the internet is falling, err, I mean the internet is failing! (RE:Sprintlink)
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22:32.08harleypigmrpull: yeah ... those honeycombs are weirding me out for some reason too
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22:43.53tensai~lart sprintlink
22:43.53ibotcuts off sprintlink's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper
22:44.04tensaiharleypig: I wonder if the guy tried to eat them
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22:58.19harleypigtensai: ? ... oh ... the honeycombs ...
22:58.30harleypigthat'd be an interesting trip if it didn't kill him. :D
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23:19.59tensaiI suppose it depends on what kind of bees they were
23:20.40Jayce^I think it's more to do with the poison of choice
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23:21.25goozbachJayce^: wasn't it you who blogged/shared a link about turning the "open in terminal in $HOME not $HOME/desktop/" fix?
23:22.45Jayce^don't recall me doing that
23:23.21tensaiJayce^: ah, yeah. forgot about that.
23:23.52goozbachtwas christer: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2008/11/06/update-nautilus-open-terminal-behavior/
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