| 00:09.49 | harleypig | Let's melt some faces! |
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| 01:13.36 | nick125_screen | Anyone here experienced with LDAP/Samba? I'm looking for some advice on an LDAP setup I'm working on. |
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| 01:23.49 | Sargun_Screen | nick125_screen: give up while you're still ahead |
| 01:25.06 | nick125_screen | Sargun_Screen: I'm too far in :p |
| 01:25.43 | nick125_screen | Sargun_Screen: My biggest problem is authenticating the Windows boxes. |
| 01:26.38 | nick125_screen | I've got Linux boxes authenticating just fine |
| 01:26.50 | nick125_screen | they're mounting /home over NFS just fine |
| 01:27.05 | nick125_screen | etc |
| 01:27.21 | nick125_screen | I spent an hour trying to get pGina to work to no avail. |
| 01:27.29 | nick125_screen | so I'm back to square one. |
| 01:29.33 | nick125_screen | There's tons of stuff online about how to authenticate Linux machines against AD/Windows, but not much the other way around. |
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| 02:37.41 | levi | fozzmoo: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iGvyQEbhE7p4C9xKEkCpqqlIdvOgD93VLK4G2 |
| 02:38.11 | levi | fozzmoo: Is Palin an intellectual, a pseudo-intellectual, or neither? |
| 02:38.27 | levi | And I hope she was joking about Zamboni. |
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| 02:43.59 | Vi^3PirePengy | im a little confused i found a web page with this irc channel on it but it was talking about cobol.. is this a cobol channel |
| 02:44.23 | Tene | no |
| 02:44.42 | Tene | I suspect some people here might know cobol, but I doubt most of them would admit it. |
| 02:45.36 | jackman | cobol, huh? |
| 02:45.44 | jackman | I learned about that in history class. |
| 02:46.08 | Vi^3PirePengy | does anyone know of cobol channel on freenode or other servers |
| 02:47.52 | levi | I know a guy in #scheme who knows cobol, but I don't know of a channel dedicated to it. |
| 02:51.07 | levi | There is apparently a #cobol channel, but it's not very well-attended. |
| 02:52.20 | Vi^3PirePengy | levi: is scheme on this server |
| 02:54.29 | Vi^3PirePengy | yep guess it is... kk thanks ya ll |
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| 05:48.58 | decripto1 | anyone around here using comcast |
| 06:18.16 | Reilithion | na go'i .i mi pilno la'o gy Qwest gy |
| 06:42.48 | Reilithion | Sorry. Been in #lojban a lot lately. |
| 06:43.10 | Reilithion | I use Qwest |
| 07:06.15 | romanovic | decriptor: i know its an hour on, but i just got comcast. why? |
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| 14:48.33 | bonez45 | I am thinking of upgrading my mail/web server machine.. to ubuntu. ..I am considering installing the Server edition instead of the Desktop edition.. just curious about the server edition. the documentation says it doesn't install normally with X...would I have to install X after the installation? |
| 14:50.29 | goozbach | bonez45: yup |
| 14:50.41 | goozbach | but if it's a server, why do you need X? |
| 14:51.05 | bonez45 | goozbach: so it's not that the server edition won't run X .. it's just not installed by default, as it would be with the Desktop edition, right? |
| 14:51.19 | bonez45 | ah, good point.. |
| 14:51.29 | bonez45 | yeah, mostly I would just ssh to that machine anyway.. |
| 14:52.22 | bonez45 | I'm learning... so all administration of that machine would be at the console, or remotely... |
| 14:52.23 | goozbach | bonez45: you *CAN* install X after the fact |
| 14:52.37 | goozbach | but the question is "WHY?" |
| 14:52.42 | bonez45 | but why bog it down with the extra overhead, right? |
| 14:59.03 | goozbach | yeah, an X server on a remote machine makes very little sense, unless you want a gui terminal server. |
| 14:59.19 | goozbach | and it makes your machine less secure if you open up the remote features of X |
| 14:59.36 | goozbach | you can always install gui apps and tunnel them back to your desktop |
| 15:00.26 | bonez45 | ok,... that brings my next question.. I have apache2 and exim4 with postfix running on that machine, plus I run mailman for several lists....it's running etch now..it's just ancient.. and i believe an upgrade would clean up a few problems...and boost performance... |
| 15:01.34 | bonez45 | I am not sure how to approach the task of moving my mail server, web server over.. intact.. should I just install ubuntu in a different partition? |
| 15:02.20 | goozbach | do you have console access? |
| 15:02.28 | goozbach | ie not ssh access |
| 15:03.00 | goozbach | keyboard console acess |
| 15:03.16 | bonez45 | yes, I have console access.. |
| 15:03.19 | bonez45 | yeah.... |
| 15:03.45 | bonez45 | I run that machine and my xp box.. through my kvm switch.. so yes, I have access.. |
| 15:04.33 | bonez45 | I know I'd likely be happier, just to back it all up, install ubuntu server to that machine.. reformatting in the process and then install my servers back to it.. just have never done this before.. |
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| 15:08.15 | goozbach | different partition would be saner |
| 15:08.40 | goozbach | going from one version of debian to another (ie sarge to etch) is pretty easy |
| 15:09.23 | goozbach | it's when you go cross-distro (debian etch to ubuntu) is pretty difficult by "just upgrading" |
| 15:09.32 | goozbach | distros put things in different places. |
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| 15:09.58 | goozbach | If I were in your shoes, I'd backup, format, install, restore |
| 15:10.58 | RyanE | I'd do the same, but backup *twice*... :) |
| 15:11.15 | bonez45 | RyanE: is that in case one backup fails? |
| 15:11.39 | RyanE | yes, because I'm paranoid. Especially when it comes to mail and user files. |
| 15:11.57 | bonez45 | I could just burn / back to a few cd-roms.. my email.. and /home and a few others.. right? and then proceed? |
| 15:12.07 | RyanE | I'd probably copy them to a different machine, and also make a DVD backup, depending on the size of the data. |
| 15:13.56 | bonez45 | I am bad at backing up, but time to turn over a new leaf... |
| 15:14.09 | bonez45 | how's 'backup-manager' for making backups? |
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| 15:30.48 | harleypig | anyone know of a decent firefox extension / xul tutorial besides what google returns? |
| 15:31.05 | harleypig | Cause google doesn't return much of value beyond the reference sites. |
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| 15:38.14 | tensai | I just about choked when I read this sentence: |
| 15:38.17 | tensai | This includes significant upgrades to best of breed equipment and infrastructure for scalability, stability and ease of management, solidifying redundancy and failover at all levels for security, increasing database capacity to accommodate increasing demand and support future products and streamlining message flow architecture. |
| 15:39.08 | tensai | why not just say "now with 10% more awesomeness" |
| 15:39.14 | harleypig | resume? |
| 15:39.41 | harleypig | Because loquaciousness is equal to intelligence? |
| 15:39.57 | harleypig | (loquacity?) |
| 15:40.18 | goozbach | more words=more smarter |
| 15:42.21 | harleypig | mines better cause it has a big word :P |
| 15:45.43 | elg | this is an interesting stat. in 2004 new mexico swung by 1.6 votes per precinct |
| 15:45.54 | elg | (winning margin / precinct) |
| 15:48.53 | harleypig | elg: New Mexico swings? |
| 15:49.05 | harleypig | thinks about moving to New Mexico for the scene |
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| 15:49.51 | sjansen | Attention everyone! |
| 15:49.54 | goozbach | new mexico swing |
| 15:50.00 | sjansen | I have added Dan Walsh to my list of personal heroes. |
| 15:50.04 | sjansen | Thank you, that is all. |
| 15:50.10 | harleypig | Who is Dan Walsh? |
| 15:50.12 | goozbach | I think it would be more mexicanan |
| 15:50.23 | goozbach | mexicanana that is |
| 15:50.24 | jsmith | sjansen: I was hoping you'd say Normal Walsh :-p |
| 15:50.30 | sjansen | ~google Dan Walsh SELinux |
| 15:50.36 | jsmith | s/Normal/Norman/ |
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| 15:51.38 | elg | ~lart harleypig |
| 15:51.38 | ibot | gives harleypig a "free" copy of Windows and then charges double for "Upgrades" |
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| 15:51.56 | goozbach | http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/6117.html |
| 15:52.05 | goozbach | is that what you're refering to? |
| 15:53.00 | sjansen | He da (SELinux) man! |
| 15:56.44 | tensai | harleypig: marketing from a vendor |
| 15:57.50 | harleypig | tensai: even worse. |
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| 16:05.13 | fozzmoo | goozbach: What were you reading in the picture?! |
| 16:06.01 | goozbach | sorry, I was distracted |
| 16:06.05 | goozbach | I was gonna respond |
| 16:06.25 | goozbach | I was reading "Altered Carbon" by Richard K Morgan |
| 16:06.42 | goozbach | you should read it, it's a great first novel |
| 16:06.53 | goozbach | there are three books in the series |
| 16:15.06 | Jayce^ | hrm, rackspace bought slicehost && jungle disk.. |
| 16:16.40 | sjansen | On a personal note, Slicehost announced they were purched by Rackspace, one day after I left Slicehost to return to Linode because the Linode tools are more powerful and the Linode founders more experienced. |
| 16:16.57 | sjansen | But Slicehost uses Rails so it must be more advanced. |
| 16:18.22 | sjansen | I was going to say Slicehost must have been cheaper, but that would have caused confusion because Linode offers better deals now. Slicehost might just have been cheaper to acquire. |
| 16:18.26 | elg | snicker |
| 16:20.48 | Jayce^ | so you're saying slicehost was the $20 hooker in the hosting world? |
| 16:21.26 | Jayce^ | interesting that rackspace is launching their own competitor to s3 |
| 16:22.04 | ^Migs^ | "Slicehost uses Rails so it must be more advanced?" |
| 16:22.16 | fozzmoo | ^Migs^: I sensed some sarcasm. |
| 16:22.26 | ^Migs^ | ah, I see the sarcasm now |
| 16:22.38 | Sargun | Rackspace :-( |
| 16:22.40 | fozzmoo | ^Migs^: After all, this is sjansen we're talking about. |
| 16:22.54 | fozzmoo | ~lart Sargun's rackspace |
| 16:22.54 | ibot | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, Sargun's rackspace, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 16:23.26 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha http://www.qualitynonsense.com/199/top-10-amazon-bible-reviews/ |
| 16:24.08 | fozzmoo | That could have been funnier. |
| 16:24.36 | Sargun | Why I hate asian people: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/22/microsoft-china |
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| 16:26.58 | ^Migs^ | "I respect the right of Microsoft to protect its intellectual property, but it is taking on the wrong target with wrong measures. They should target producers and sellers of fake software, not users." |
| 16:27.00 | ^Migs^ | wtf does this mean? |
| 16:27.17 | ^Migs^ | oh, okay. I read it wrong. |
| 16:27.30 | ^Migs^ | well, that should be their first target, sure |
| 16:28.03 | ^Migs^ | "Yesterday the company claimed that software piracy was costing the United States tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars." |
| 16:28.11 | Sargun | They're asian, its not supposed to make sense. |
| 16:28.19 | Sargun | They just ramble mindlessly... |
| 16:28.23 | tensai | Sargun: isn't India in asia? |
| 16:28.28 | Sargun | Yes. |
| 16:28.38 | Reilithion | Sargun: I fail to see how this article explains your distaste for Asian people. |
| 16:28.51 | Sargun | 90% of the "tech heads" in Asia |
| 16:29.13 | Sargun | are just people who act like 14 year old american teenagers |
| 16:29.17 | Sargun | and think piracy is a right |
| 16:29.27 | Sargun | and are all running subseven. |
| 16:29.45 | tensai | you mean like americans did 200 years ago? |
| 16:29.58 | Sargun | Sub7 was invented 200 years ago? |
| 16:30.27 | Sargun | ok |
| 16:30.28 | Sargun | bye. |
| 16:32.28 | tensai | no, americans were patent and copyright thieves 200 years ago. why should we begrudge other countries their chance to grow up? |
| 16:35.11 | Reilithion | "Because it will do unspeakable things to the economy!" |
| 16:35.48 | unum | and so will allowing them to use free software |
| 16:36.15 | unum | that's why we must threaten to take away their finiacial aide if they don't keep using it buy software from microsoft |
| 16:36.31 | Reilithion | Yes, therefore let us pass legislation outlawing the use of Linux. |
| 16:36.31 | unum | that situation still makes me angry |
| 16:36.52 | Reilithion | Everyone in this channel is now a criminal. You will all be arrested within 5 days. |
| 16:37.23 | tensai | I read a commentary on the bbc yesterday that piracy is a reaction to a market failure |
| 16:37.32 | unum | is patent violation now a criminal offence or is just copyright violation |
| 16:37.38 | tensai | largely I believe that's true, in the US anyway |
| 16:37.58 | unum | because according to MS we are all guilty of patent violation |
| 16:38.08 | unum | and they are going to sue us any day now for it |
| 16:38.18 | tensai | unum: I believe patents are a civil thing |
| 16:38.37 | unum | tensai: ya I think it's only copyrights that are now criminal |
| 16:39.12 | tensai | because the fbi has nothing better to do than track down people copying cds. that's a great plan. |
| 16:39.33 | unum | that why bush hired a new guy just for that purpose |
| 16:40.09 | unum | a new branch of government brought to you by the "smaller government"tm republicans |
| 16:40.24 | Reilithion | And while we're at it, let's make it a crime to circumvent DRM measures. 'Cause the last thing we need is people who bought music legally trying to keep it when they switch operating systems. |
| 16:40.24 | unum | s/branch/department |
| 16:41.07 | unum | well 'smaller government'tm hatch already did that |
| 16:41.55 | unum | I have a great time at family get togethers because my mother and oldest brother always try to get me to join the party of "smaller government" |
| 16:42.05 | unum | and I just point out I'm already in it, and they are not |
| 16:43.08 | Reilithion | That might be useful to me. How do you go about pointing this out exactly? |
| 16:45.38 | Jayce^ | unum, far from being in it, it's just a matter of the (R) smaller only being relative... still dont' make either of those two right |
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| 16:48.45 | Reilithion | Smaller Government® |
| 16:49.02 | unum | Reilithion: point out matheson's vote compared to bishop's,hatch's,bennett's, and canon's |
| 16:49.28 | unum | matheson usually is voting for less government than they are |
| 16:50.03 | elg | of all the scary things in the world, the scariest is probably the fact that there's now 3 high school musical movies |
| 16:50.48 | Reilithion | That is pretty scary. I still think the fact that this country is seriously considering making Sarah Palin its Vice President is scarier. |
| 16:51.44 | Jayce^ | unum, he also votes more *against* his party than most other :) |
| 16:52.41 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, I'd put her above Biden for sure |
| 16:53.34 | Reilithion | Are you certain? This is the woman who, AFTER she accepted her position as McCain's running mate, ASKED WHAT THE VICE PRESIDENT DOES. |
| 16:53.42 | JoshH | by utah standards, matheson is a flaming liberal |
| 16:53.47 | Reilithion | On national television no less. |
| 16:54.09 | JoshH | even though the true democrats have a lot of complaints about him, he's really the best they can hope for for the foreseeable future |
| 16:54.14 | Jayce^ | And the guy whose main claim on legislature is "I wrote the original weapons ban" |
| 16:54.20 | JoshH | he's definitely preferable to someone like lavar christensen or bill dew |
| 16:56.20 | Reilithion | Jayce^: Yes. They are both poor candidates. I maintain that Palin is of inferior intelligence and ethical standing. But clearly both major parties are experiencing a dearth of good politicians. |
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| 16:57.18 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, I hate both parties, aint voting for either, but I prefer Palin as somebody coming into things without the baggage, O, MCc, and Biden all are attempting to legislate from the executive branch... they have a very twisted view of the position |
| 16:57.20 | jsmith | might argue that we need less good politicians and more good people who know how to govern |
| 16:58.06 | Jayce^ | jsmith, yeah, which is part of why palin came in with an over 80% approval rating in her home state... whereas the other three up there are all part of a single-digit approval legislative branch |
| 16:58.15 | JoshH | Jayce^: i like the fact that obama has relatively little baggage, and also actually understands the issues far better than palin |
| 16:58.29 | JoshH | obama also has no troopergate |
| 16:58.32 | Jayce^ | I think he has too much baggage for his little time |
| 16:58.52 | Reilithion | I need someone to either define or provide an example of this "baggage". |
| 16:58.54 | unum | Jayce^: palin said she would run the senate as vp, I don't know how you can say she's not trying to legislate.... |
| 16:59.03 | JoshH | palin has already demonstrated that she will abuse her power, even in a small time position |
| 16:59.20 | Jayce^ | unum, ummm, that what the VP *does*, not much else |
| 16:59.22 | Reilithion | I love her flip-flop on the bridge to nowhere. |
| 16:59.30 | harleypig | I heard on the radio from Carlos Mencia that 'palin' in spanish is a euphemisim like 'quickie' |
| 16:59.41 | unum | Jayce^: no they don't "run" the senate. the majority leader does |
| 16:59.47 | harleypig | that means roughly the same thing as 'quickie' I mean. |
| 17:00.07 | tensai | jsmith: you're supposed to hop in and say something about not getting all the government we pay for? |
| 17:00.07 | Reilithion | VP of the US presides over the senate. Moving on. |
| 17:00.16 | tensai | wonders what happened to jsmith |
| 17:00.19 | Jayce^ | troopergate is a joke, the guy at the receiving end (not the BIL) said she was justified... and the trooper with the problem has a history of crime, and was only kept in via union pressure |
| 17:00.21 | JoshH | i prefer the term "nooner" over "quickie", at least during the day |
| 17:00.31 | jsmith | tensai: I had my hands full trying to eat my lunch |
| 17:00.33 | harleypig | :] |
| 17:00.37 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, exactly :) |
| 17:00.43 | harleypig | jsmith: bad timing :D |
| 17:01.11 | JoshH | Jayce^: what about when she asked the wasilla librarian about the idea of removing certain books? |
| 17:01.11 | jsmith | tensai: It's hard to type when you have flatbread in one and and a fork full of Indian food in the other |
| 17:01.16 | Reilithion | Never mind that Palin herself didn't seem aware of this during the early part of the campaign. |
| 17:01.18 | unum | people disapprove of the legsilative branch over all. they still like their own senator |
| 17:01.22 | unum | well except me :) |
| 17:01.37 | tensai | jsmith: and yet you seem to have enough fingers to tell me as much. I smell a conspiracy here. |
| 17:01.43 | jsmith | wonders what the approval rating for the Supreme Court is |
| 17:01.43 | Jayce^ | JoshH, she can have discussions, because even the librarian has stated she acted in the exact *opposite* manner |
| 17:01.58 | unum | she fired the librarian |
| 17:02.03 | jsmith | tensai: I took a break... to wash it down with a soda. I can do that one-handed :-) |
| 17:02.16 | JoshH | yes, she didn't go through with it. but the fact that it crossed her mind is enough to worry me |
| 17:02.16 | Jayce^ | and she has stated herself that she supports specific political positions that she doesn't agree with personally :) |
| 17:02.23 | tensai | jsmith: well it's hard to argue with indian food I suppose |
| 17:02.34 | ^Migs^ | I love my new (used 2003) Honda Pilot |
| 17:02.50 | ^Migs^ | Screw fuel economy. I love having an SUV. |
| 17:02.52 | Jayce^ | JoshH, and what about obama, think of what has crossed his mind... banning of basically all ammunition of any form... |
| 17:02.58 | ^Migs^ | I don't know how we survived so many years without one. |
| 17:03.06 | Reilithion | Rape kits. |
| 17:03.06 | Jayce^ | and he actually tried :) |
| 17:03.07 | ^Migs^ | the Pilot actually isn't too bad. At least 20 MPG. |
| 17:03.09 | unum | I don't think not knowing anything about foreign or national policy is really a good thing for a president |
| 17:03.11 | jsmith | tensai: mmmmn... hmmmn.. this lamb is delicious... |
| 17:03.26 | JoshH | Jayce^: reference? all i know about his gun control stance is that he's open to the idea of certain regulations, but not for any type of ban |
| 17:03.28 | unum | Jayce^: link? |
| 17:03.42 | Jayce^ | look for kennedy's bill that obama co-sponsored |
| 17:03.43 | jsmith | unum: Why not? Bush supposedly knew a lot, and what good did that do us. |
| 17:04.00 | unum | jsmith: *supposedly* |
| 17:04.03 | jsmith | unum: If anything, I'd like to see more less-experienced people in Washington. I think it would be a healthy thing |
| 17:04.03 | Jayce^ | as well as his statements, such as "Californias laws are good, they just don't go far enough" |
| 17:04.03 | JoshH | i don't think anyone thought bush knew a lot |
| 17:04.22 | Jayce^ | JoshH, he's got an MBA... probalby knows quite a bit |
| 17:04.31 | unum | but how much less experienced is the question |
| 17:04.34 | tensai | http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/barack_obama_gun_control.htm |
| 17:04.35 | brac | [Barack Obama on Gun Control] |
| 17:04.35 | jsmith | He may not be articulate, but that doesn't mean he isn't smart |
| 17:04.41 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@70-1-151-155.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:04.41 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.29 | JoshH | Jayce^: personally, i'm as much of a second amendment supporter as anyone, but frankly, i don't think there is a chance in hell that the first "black" president is going to get any kind of major gun control passed. i'm more worried about censorship, which is a more real threat, considering the actions of the FCC, ashcroft, etc during the Bush years. |
| 17:05.29 | ^Migs^ | Puppy cam! http://www.ustream.tv/channel/shiba-inu-puppy-cam |
| 17:05.40 | tensai | jsmith: I've heard that stated about him |
| 17:06.10 | unum | JoshH: agreed |
| 17:06.13 | Jayce^ | JoshH, oh, I'm sure about 2 years in is when we'll really see the 2nd bills passed (wait for mid-term rollover) |
| 17:06.24 | JoshH | not to mention idiots like CP-80, the TV watchdog groups, etc are mostly supported by republicans |
| 17:06.26 | Jayce^ | but I bet in first term we'll see the "fairness" doctrine in place |
| 17:06.41 | JoshH | i doubt that |
| 17:06.55 | unum | http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html |
| 17:06.59 | brac | [FactCheck.org: NRA Targets Obama] |
| 17:07.05 | unum | that explain the "wants to ban all ammo" claim |
| 17:07.11 | Jayce^ | JoshH, it was on the higher end of the docket when the dems took over in 06.. |
| 17:07.34 | levi | ^Migs^: Screw SUVs. I love my van. :) |
| 17:07.38 | JoshH | did anything the dems promised in 06 come true? |
| 17:07.50 | JoshH | the current congress is one of the greatest failures in the history of humanity |
| 17:07.55 | elg | screw it all and give me a motorcycle ;) |
| 17:08.13 | tensai | I trade all of congress for a good chile relleno |
| 17:08.15 | Jayce^ | unum, shows part of his fundamental misunderstanding, the 2nd ammendment was *never* about "sportsmen" |
| 17:08.31 | Jayce^ | also he supposrted kennedy, who specifically included rounds such as the 30/30 in being banned |
| 17:08.45 | ^Migs^ | just don't come barking to me when your van gets stuck in a 4-foot snow drift |
| 17:09.02 | JoshH | i think anyone who supports the right to bear arms will acknowledge that the gun stance is one of obama's downsides, but the good outweighs the bad. with palin, and even mccain, it doesn't |
| 17:09.04 | Jayce^ | as well as the supports getting rid of states rights to issue concealed carry |
| 17:09.32 | Jayce^ | JoshH, I fail to see the good in obama, while aknowledging much bad in mccain |
| 17:09.34 | levi | ^Migs^: Why would I drive my van into a 4 foot snow drift? |
| 17:10.01 | JoshH | Jayce^: i see good and bad in both |
| 17:10.12 | Reilithion | Jayce^: Kennedy himself said his ban was only intended to apply to ammunition with armor-piercing capability. |
| 17:10.16 | JoshH | but when you put them on the scales, obama wins, IMO |
| 17:10.17 | unum | Jayce^: I can't find anything about him backing an ammendment of kennedy's will you please provide link? |
| 17:10.44 | Jayce^ | "gun show loophole" and "childproof" measures have been shown as unconstitutional |
| 17:10.49 | tensai | I was really annoyed the other day in church when somebody insinuated that obama would be opposed to the boy scouts shooting shotguns |
| 17:10.50 | JoshH | unum: it was probably in a right wing chain forward :P |
| 17:11.07 | JoshH | jk, i wouldn't accuse jayce of reading those |
| 17:11.09 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, but then specifically in the bill included non AP, and redifined AP to include things that *aren't*.. |
| 17:11.23 | tensai | mostly it upset me that people aren't interested in finding out how candidates actually feel but are rather listening to rhetoric from the parties |
| 17:11.31 | Jayce^ | he stated as AP penetrating even class II, which is basically just thick clothing, not actually armor.. |
| 17:11.58 | Jayce^ | you can get some pellet to go through some of that |
| 17:12.13 | JoshH | when do boyscouts shoot shotguns? |
| 17:12.25 | tvc123 | hands JoshH a shotgun |
| 17:12.26 | levi | At scout camp, sometimes. |
| 17:12.26 | Sargun_Screen | Boiled....Hard Boiled |
| 17:12.27 | Jayce^ | tensai, most shotguns would be banned under HR 1022 currently on the docket.. |
| 17:12.28 | JoshH | i remember shooting a 22 at some kind of scout camp as a kid, but that's about it |
| 17:12.29 | harleypig | JoshH: merit badges? |
| 17:12.31 | Jayce^ | which he supports |
| 17:12.45 | Jayce^ | JoshH, there is a merit badge, they do ti a lot |
| 17:12.47 | tvc123 | goes to buy a shotgun |
| 17:12.48 | Sargun_Screen | isn't there a shotgun badge |
| 17:12.50 | JoshH | i see |
| 17:12.50 | Jayce^ | skeet/trap |
| 17:12.58 | JoshH | i think i quit scouts when i was 13 or so |
| 17:13.21 | harleypig | my son has been on several scouting trips where they basically went to shoot things and got a number of merit badges out of the way. |
| 17:13.22 | Sargun_Screen | 'blew a bunch of buckshot into your hunting partner's face' badge |
| 17:13.28 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:13.29 | unum | obama is right on freedom of speach, habius corpus, and privacy |
| 17:13.30 | Jayce^ | also, there is a very grey area under that legislation about letting a youth handle a gun |
| 17:14.05 | JoshH | well, im not a supporter of increased gun control, but i'm not too worried about an obama administration getting anything worth worrying about passed |
| 17:14.20 | Jayce^ | he supports the fairness doctrine, that aint right on freedom of speech |
| 17:14.31 | JoshH | no matter who wins, there will be stuff i agree and disagree with that gets done |
| 17:15.02 | Jayce^ | JoshH, why not, he said he wouldn't veto it, and they'll have a supermajority (liekly) in the senate, and large majority in the house.. pretty easy to get those out |
| 17:15.15 | levi | C'mon, HR 1022 isn't even out of committee. |
| 17:15.30 | Reilithion | Jayce^: I'm no expert on the subject, but it occurs to me that we must have some way of restricting gun use if we are to address gun-related crime. Look at the crime rates between Japan and the USA. Helll, look at the crime rates between any other country that has decent gun laws and the USA. |
| 17:15.32 | unum | Jayce^: you're right the fairness doctrine allows anti-global nutcases on tv |
| 17:15.36 | unum | we need to get rid of that |
| 17:15.42 | levi | Who knows what it would say if it actually got to the President's desk? |
| 17:15.43 | Jayce^ | levi, you think that'll get *more* difficult? |
| 17:15.47 | Reilithion | Australia. Most European nations. |
| 17:16.16 | JoshH | Reilithion: i think a lot of that is because of our culture. it is a fact that law abiding gun owners aren't a significant source of crime |
| 17:16.39 | JoshH | as education and the standard of living improve, there will be less crime, i think |
| 17:16.42 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, actually, most restrictive gun laws have higher violent crime rates, and I forget the percentage, but most gun crimes are with guns that couldnt' be owned under existing laws |
| 17:17.05 | unum | canada does not have restrictive guns laws yet has less crime |
| 17:17.06 | harleypig | JoshH: err ... that's kind of a self-evident statement, 'law abiding' cannot be a source of crime |
| 17:17.09 | JoshH | the longer we think it's acceptable to let our ghettos fester, the longer we will have high crime rates in those areas |
| 17:17.21 | tensai | there is a rifle merit badge and a shotgun merit badge. rifle can be earned with 22, larger bore or muzzle loader. considering the cost of rounds, I would recommend the .22. :) |
| 17:17.23 | Jayce^ | unum, also less urban centers... factor that |
| 17:17.33 | unum | well they have less people |
| 17:17.34 | Jayce^ | and they do have restrictive laws . |
| 17:17.37 | Jayce^ | right |
| 17:17.40 | unum | they do have large urban centers |
| 17:17.51 | JoshH | canada does have a lot of certain types of crimes |
| 17:17.58 | JoshH | vancouver has a very high rate of car thefts, for example |
| 17:18.03 | Jayce^ | americas highest gun crime rates are in the urban cities that have the *most* restrictive gun laws |
| 17:18.06 | tensai | moose tipping is prominent |
| 17:18.22 | unum | don't mix up cause and effect |
| 17:18.26 | Reilithion | tensai: lol! |
| 17:18.43 | Reilithion | Jayce^: unum has a point there. |
| 17:18.51 | unum | anacostia is a crap hole. that's why they have problems. they have problems so they pass strict gun laws |
| 17:18.54 | Jayce^ | you don't think there is any relation? |
| 17:18.59 | Jayce^ | heck, look at DC |
| 17:19.05 | unum | I just did |
| 17:19.16 | Reilithion | Correlation does not equal causation. |
| 17:19.21 | unum | well I gave my opinion of why things work that way |
| 17:19.34 | Jayce^ | but it also does not deny it |
| 17:19.46 | unum | so neither one of us should be using it |
| 17:20.15 | Jayce^ | with one line in irc, it's worth pointing out the existence as a route to research, whch many others have done, and have linked |
| 17:20.19 | JoshH | i think certain types of regulations, like waiting lists and background checks, are ok. it shouldn't be easy for an actual gang member or other type of criminal to obtain a handgun. but i don't think taking them from law abiding citizens will solve anything at all. |
| 17:20.35 | Reilithion | Jayce^: Suggest a mechanism under which more restrictive gun control results in higher gun-related crime rates. |
| 17:20.44 | unum | Jayce^: link to the research? |
| 17:21.51 | Jayce^ | you'll have to google too, I don't have it in my hand atm, supposedly working :) |
| 17:22.01 | JoshH | well not necessarily a waiting list, but waiting while your background check is completed. |
| 17:22.07 | JoshH | im perfectly fine with banning guns for felons |
| 17:22.14 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, criminals have no fear of armed homes. |
| 17:22.23 | Jayce^ | JoshH, that one is good.. |
| 17:22.50 | Jayce^ | and background checks, first off, it's illegal for the FBI to record that, yet they do anyways... the BCI can't stop them though |
| 17:22.55 | unum | especially since most guns owners think it works like it does in the movies |
| 17:23.05 | JoshH | the FBI does whatever it wants |
| 17:23.06 | unum | you point the gun at the bad guy and he stands still.... |
| 17:23.07 | unum | idiots |
| 17:23.10 | JoshH | and republicans in general seem to be fine with that |
| 17:23.29 | JoshH | why else would there be so many thousands of national security letters used |
| 17:23.31 | Reilithion | Jayce^: wha? I don't even know where to begin asking questions about that. |
| 17:23.59 | unum | it's true. |
| 17:24.01 | tensai | unum: you point your gun at him and then he spills the beans on his evil scheme |
| 17:24.05 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, it's proven.. jsut look into it.. |
| 17:24.07 | Reilithion | Jayce^: wait, you mean that they don't fear running across a home that happens to be armed |
| 17:24.13 | tensai | bad guys are dumb like that |
| 17:24.15 | Jayce^ | tensai, oh, he'll spill something, but I'll have pulled first :) |
| 17:24.15 | unum | not really |
| 17:24.30 | Jayce^ | dont' forget, Obama is and has voted against 'castle laws' |
| 17:24.37 | unum | in fact I know of homes that were targetted because they had guns |
| 17:25.11 | JoshH | depends what type of criminal |
| 17:25.27 | tensai | protecting your home with a gun takes a lot more than a walk down to a gun shop |
| 17:25.39 | unum | Jayce^: once again google is useless to find information on your claim |
| 17:25.48 | tensai | I personally won't do it because that means having a loaded weapon near me all the time, and that's not something I'm interested in |
| 17:25.56 | Jayce^ | google is, or the user :) |
| 17:26.11 | Jayce^ | tensai, and that's your choice, but it should be mine also |
| 17:26.13 | unum | I typed in obama castle law |
| 17:26.20 | Jayce^ | not somebody elses |
| 17:26.47 | unum | but I can't find any information saying that obama disagrees with you |
| 17:26.49 | tensai | Jayce^: I'm fine with that. just pointing out that a lot of people don't really think through their decision to keep a loaded weapon. |
| 17:26.59 | unum | so I don't understand why this is relevant |
| 17:27.20 | JoshH | tensai: i agree, you would basically need to keep a loaded pistol under your pillow to stop a home invasion |
| 17:28.25 | Jayce^ | "35. Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of |
| 17:28.25 | Jayce^ | a. handguns? |
| 17:28.25 | Jayce^ | While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; a |
| 17:28.25 | Jayce^ | nd require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law. |
| 17:28.26 | tensai | I also don't rate the risk of a home invasion very high. I'm in much more danger of the roof falling in on me due to water damage. |
| 17:28.27 | Jayce^ | b. assault weapons? |
| 17:28.29 | Jayce^ | Yes. |
| 17:28.31 | Jayce^ | c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons? |
| 17:28.33 | Jayce^ | I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns. |
| 17:28.36 | Jayce^ | 36. Do you support legislation |
| 17:28.38 | Jayce^ | a. mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements? |
| 17:28.41 | Jayce^ | Yes. |
| 17:28.43 | Jayce^ | that's ammo/gun type |
| 17:28.59 | Jayce^ | tensai, you remember my story of my old neighbor, should know my concerns :) |
| 17:29.17 | tensai | Jayce^: if I had a nut like that around, yeah that might change my mind |
| 17:29.18 | Reilithion | I think it's hilarious that Jayce^ and I are arguing largely partisan issues when neither of us will be voting for either Republican or Democrat. |
| 17:29.18 | Reilithion | Jayce^: Wait, I know. You're voting Libertarian aren't you? |
| 17:29.44 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, no, though do have some sympathies with them |
| 17:29.50 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:30.05 | Jayce^ | that's a quote from member of his campaign |
| 17:30.17 | Jayce^ | quoted in chicago |
| 17:30.34 | Jayce^ | you realize how few places a store could be in that case? |
| 17:31.33 | levi | Hey, I think Jayce^ probably isn't going to vote for Obama. |
| 17:31.43 | unum | he's backed down from that in the last 10 years |
| 17:32.05 | unum | and has never pushed for any of that stuff on a federal level |
| 17:32.54 | Jayce^ | heh, his quote this year about it was ?Even if I want to take them away, I don?t have the votes in Congress,?? |
| 17:33.41 | Reilithion | I'm tired of beating around the bush. Let's cut straight to the issue. Why not abolish the 2nd amendment? Why even keep it? What's so important about it? |
| 17:33.56 | Reilithion | What ill would befall us if we repealed it and then went around the nation taking guns away and made sure only the police and armed forces carried them at all? |
| 17:34.03 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, there is a reason that was the second thing they brought out, right after free speech.. |
| 17:34.08 | Jayce^ | you can't have the first without the second |
| 17:34.18 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: Because if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns |
| 17:34.26 | Reilithion | Why? |
| 17:34.38 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: And that takes away our right to defend ourselves from both outlaws and a repressive gov't |
| 17:34.46 | Jayce^ | it was directly addressed after some similar papers in england about 100 years before.. |
| 17:34.54 | Reilithion | No, the police will have guns. And citizens will have locks on their doors. |
| 17:35.15 | Jayce^ | same reason that the americans had implemented the second ammendment for their own revolution.. it was the founding basis of the country |
| 17:35.19 | unum | Reilithion: their argument is that your local police and army reserve will turn against you |
| 17:35.28 | Reilithion | A gun costs upwards of $300. You can get a good sturdy door and lock for much cheaper. |
| 17:35.37 | harleypig | I want to know who came up with the idea of drinking animal urine as a means of getting high ... all of the extra stuff (like adding different ingredients to increase potency) |
| 17:35.43 | Jayce^ | figure, more people have been killed by their own government in the last 100 years, than have in wars in the same period |
| 17:35.46 | harleypig | is just a bonus |
| 17:35.48 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: A lock on the door didn't stop a my friend's brother in law from being murdered last week. Do you think that if you made guns illegal, that it would have stopped the murderer? |
| 17:35.57 | Jayce^ | harleypig, only *you* would dwell on that :) |
| 17:36.19 | Reilithion | jsmith-teaching: It might have. I also note that guns being legal didn't save him either. |
| 17:36.30 | Jayce^ | jsmith-teaching, it's true.. it sure as heck doesn't get guns off the street |
| 17:36.40 | harleypig | :] Was just reading up on various methods of getting high (ever since I started listening to 1200 Micrograms I've been curious aobut a number of things). |
| 17:37.01 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: The problem with repealing the 2nd amendment is that it takes away the rights of the innocent, while not doing anything to go after those who *aren't* following the laws anyway |
| 17:37.08 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, he wasn't exercising that right, which *could* have made a diff, depending on circumstance |
| 17:37.27 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, so why not remove the first ammendment? |
| 17:37.30 | Reilithion | jsmith-teaching: It makes it easier to go after the ones who are breaking the law. |
| 17:37.30 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: Would you rather that he was murdered with a knife? Guns don't kill people. People kill people. |
| 17:37.40 | harleypig | Reilithion: in what way?! |
| 17:37.49 | Jayce^ | or hwy not limit in in the same ways we limit gun ownership |
| 17:37.53 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: How? There are already plenty of nice tough laws to throw at people doing *wrong* things with guns |
| 17:38.10 | unum | it's important to understand the britist tried to shut down the state ran militias |
| 17:38.15 | Reilithion | Jayce^: Let's not confuse the issue. We are discussing the ownership of guns, which is arguably dangerous for everybody. The first amendment is only dangerous to oppressive governments. |
| 17:38.26 | unum | just like the illinoise goverment shut down the mormon ran militia |
| 17:38.27 | Jayce^ | heck, you have a loaded gun in your car, without a license, you're going to be getting in *plenty* of trouble already. |
| 17:38.54 | unum | and there is the kennedy ammendment I already had it pulled up on fact check |
| 17:38.57 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: "Dangerous to everyone?" C'mon... if you're gonna play the safety card, then outlaw swimming pools. |
| 17:39.06 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, it can be dangerous in lots of other ways... bank runs to slander, all sorts of stuff |
| 17:39.07 | unum | and fact check says the NRA is making stuff up.... |
| 17:39.07 | Reilithion | jsmith-teaching: Because gun-ownership would become rare, and immediate suspicion can be brought to bear on those who possess guns. |
| 17:39.10 | mrpull | as a 2nd amendment supporter, yesterday I started having doubts who much my right to bear arms would protect me from a government with high tech weapons |
| 17:39.21 | Jayce^ | unum, and they've *never* been wrong |
| 17:39.26 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: More than 100x the number of accidental deaths are caused by swimming pools than guns |
| 17:39.40 | Jayce^ | mrpull, part of why they have instituted a ceiling on what you can have.. |
| 17:39.51 | unum | but they have a link to the bill. and quote it. |
| 17:39.51 | Jayce^ | jsmith-teaching, and don't forget kitchen knives |
| 17:40.03 | Jayce^ | *the*, there hasn't been just one |
| 17:40.06 | Reilithion | jsmith-teaching: I can't take my swimming pool to a crowded theater and drown dozens of people in it. |
| 17:40.12 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: Guilt for having something... whether or not you actually break the law with it? Is that *really* the kind of world you want to live in? |
| 17:40.19 | harleypig | Reilithion: that's the most bizarre reasoning I've ever heard |
| 17:40.33 | unum | jsmith-teaching: I'm guilty if I have pot |
| 17:40.34 | mrpull | how much could I really have (even without a ceiling of what is legally permitted) to defend against an air strike? |
| 17:40.37 | jsmith-teaching | Reilithion: Right -- it's the *person* that takes it into the theater. A gun doesn't walk itself in there and pull its own trigger. |
| 17:40.45 | Reilithion | jsmith-teaching: No. In fact, I do not support the position I am arguing. I am playing devil's advocate. |
| 17:40.49 | harleypig | well, ok, not the *most* bizarre. |
| 17:40.51 | Jayce^ | on the AP issue, kennedy specifically brought up the 30/30, one of the oldest common hunting rounds out there... yet it could easily pass through type II armor at any normal distance |
| 17:40.55 | Jayce^ | therefore, banned |
| 17:41.08 | jsmith-teaching | throws up his hands, goes back to teaching |
| 17:41.13 | Jayce^ | and how about the dreaded "Assault Weapon"... what makes a gun fit in that class? |
| 17:41.40 | Jayce^ | seriously, after Heller won vs DC, dc just reclassified the colt 1911 as a MACHINE GUN... come on.. |
| 17:41.44 | harleypig | Jayce^: isn't it an assault weapon if it's made to kill? |
| 17:41.57 | harleypig | :> |
| 17:42.01 | Jayce^ | harleypig, even those poor paper targets :) |
| 17:42.08 | RyanE | the UK is considering banning knives. I'm guessing steak is next... because what law-abiding citizen would buy steak if they have no steak knives... :) |
| 17:42.18 | harleypig | Someone should stand up for the rights of paper targets! |
| 17:42.22 | unum | darn fire fox |
| 17:42.30 | harleypig | They're cruelly used and then just thrown away like garbage! |
| 17:42.30 | unum | I have the text of the debate but I can't search |
| 17:42.39 | Jayce^ | RyanE, they already outlawed guns, knives are on the docket, and they've also banned many types of speech... what can they do about it :) |
| 17:43.11 | RyanE | "When you outlaw knives, they'll switch to longbows and arrows. When you outlaw those, ... " -- Robert Cunningham, Harrow, London, UK |
| 17:43.16 | Jayce^ | harleypig, not all are thrown, I used to have one framed (final target when I got my super-marksman rating :) ) |
| 17:43.48 | harleypig | Oh, so you mounted that poor thing and hung it on your wall? tsk tsk |
| 17:43.53 | Jayce^ | RyanE, of course, in england, some towns have banned barbed wire, because they don't want to get sued for damages by the felons getting caught on it |
| 17:44.10 | harleypig | perhaps using the phrase 'mounted that poor thing' with you is the wrong choice of words. |
| 17:44.24 | Reilithion | Okay, looking back on the conversation, it looks like the biggest reason to have the 2nd amendment basically simplifies to self-defense. Defending against both personal attack and oppression from government. |
| 17:44.43 | goozbach | I shouldn't have looked in her |
| 17:44.52 | harleypig | goozbach: ? |
| 17:44.59 | goozbach | s/her/here |
| 17:45.02 | Jayce^ | goozbach, uhh |
| 17:45.05 | goozbach | ohh what a slip... |
| 17:45.15 | harleypig | :D |
| 17:45.18 | Jayce^ | now you're looking up her slip? |
| 17:45.19 | RyanE | Why stop there? Just construct the entire nation out of Nerf products. Trees, cars, rocks, grass, everything down to paper clips and staples. Any object can be a weapon, after all. |
| 17:45.31 | goozbach | heck even nerf |
| 17:45.41 | RyanE | people choke on nerf, I suppose. |
| 17:45.50 | goozbach | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/04/ |
| 17:45.56 | goozbach | ~nerfrules is http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/04/ |
| 17:45.57 | ibot | goozbach: okay |
| 17:46.12 | Jayce^ | RyanE, but think of the lawyers! |
| 17:46.49 | unum | huh I can't find anything about 30-30 in transcript |
| 17:47.42 | RyanE | no, Jayce^, it should be "Think of the Children... of lawyers" |
| 17:47.42 | *** join/#utah gshipley__ (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-1646c7ac194c8612) |
| 17:47.42 | Jayce^ | unum, senate floor |
| 17:47.42 | Jayce^ | used to be on Youtube |
| 17:48.00 | Reilithion | But defending from personal attack is arguably just as simple in a society where guns are outlawed as it is in this one -- potentially more so. And defense against an oppressive government only requires an armed militia. In fact, the 2nd amendment doesn't defend the /individual/ right to bear arms, but the right of states to have standing militias. |
| 17:48.01 | unum | Jayce^: they have the trascript from the senate floor it was pdf so I couldn't search it |
| 17:48.08 | unum | I was glancing through it |
| 17:48.18 | unum | oddly the nra doesn't bring that up in their argument |
| 17:48.44 | harleypig | Reilithion: so iow, you're advocating bring a knife to a gun fight? |
| 17:48.45 | unum | they claim some handguns can take rifle bullets and there fore those rifle bullets will be bannen as armor piercing handgun bullets |
| 17:49.10 | Jayce^ | actually Reilithion even the current supreme court agrees that it represents and /individual/ right... |
| 17:49.26 | tensai | brain fart. how do I delete a key from a perl hash? |
| 17:49.32 | *** join/#utah gshipley (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-416fbccfb541706c) |
| 17:49.34 | Jayce^ | unum, because the nra is often a tool too :) |
| 17:49.38 | harleypig | tensai: delete $hash{ key } |
| 17:49.50 | harleypig | Y'all are tools! |
| 17:49.59 | Reilithion | So technically we could enact all kinds of gun control and not violate the 2nd amendment. |
| 17:50.00 | Jayce^ | unum, that fact is true.. i have several that I can use ammo across platforms |
| 17:50.07 | tensai | harleypig: thanks |
| 17:50.12 | harleypig | tensai: yw |
| 17:50.14 | Jayce^ | tensai, delete($hash{key}) |
| 17:50.15 | unum | I never said they were lying about that |
| 17:50.26 | harleypig | Jayce^: a bit slow on the uptake there. :> |
| 17:50.34 | Jayce^ | harleypig, multithreaded here :) |
| 17:50.36 | tensai | ~delete $Jayce^ |
| 17:50.36 | ibot | ACTION glares at $Jayce^ and then takes every step necessary to completely delete $Jayce^ and destroy any and all evidence that $Jayce^ ever existed |
| 17:50.37 | Jayce^ | but single core |
| 17:50.39 | unum | I just said that's why they say kennedy is trying to ban rifle bullets, kennedy says he didn't mean to do so |
| 17:51.03 | fozzmoo | peeks in to see what's goin on in #utah |
| 17:51.15 | Jayce^ | unum, sure, the lawyers and courts get to decide that later, and the verbage matters |
| 17:51.15 | harleypig | desparately tries not to think of a retort to Jayce^'s last comment. |
| 17:51.27 | harleypig | RUN FOZZMOO! |
| 17:51.52 | unum | Jayce^: that doesn't mean it was what obama intended by voting for it |
| 17:51.55 | Jayce^ | Reilithion, the 2nd ammendment says 'shall not be infringed'... yet that's what we keep doing |
| 17:52.10 | harleypig | Fringe is a fairly decent show ... |
| 17:52.25 | ^Migs^ | I liked the pilot |
| 17:52.31 | ^Migs^ | pretty stale acting, but looks entertaining enough |
| 17:52.39 | ^Migs^ | haven't watched anything beyond that, though |
| 17:52.43 | unum | it also says stuff about a regulated militia but the supreme court has struck that part down |
| 17:52.52 | harleypig | I'm hoping the actors'll grow into their parts. |
| 17:52.55 | ^Migs^ | it's hard to beat the other good shows: Heroes, Lost, Sunny, and Desperate Housewives |
| 17:52.56 | Reilithion | Jayce^: I conclude from this that someone must not think it's being infringed. |
| 17:52.58 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 17:53.08 | harleypig | I don't like any of those shows. |
| 17:53.11 | ^Migs^ | I recall the first season of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine having VERY stale acting, too |
| 17:53.18 | ^Migs^ | you must have crappy taste in TV |
| 17:53.23 | harleypig | :D |
| 17:53.31 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, I'd say that about any season, any version of star trek :) |
| 17:53.46 | ^Migs^ | Jayce must have crappy taste, too. Funny how everyone who disagrees with me has crappy taste. |
| 17:53.53 | harleypig | Jayce^ is just jealous cause its taken this long to get a star wars tv show, and it's animated. |
| 17:54.02 | Jayce^ | anyone in utah valley, we'll be going to Baileys for lunch, can continue the chat there :) |
| 17:54.27 | Jayce^ | harleypig, hey, I know goozbach keeps a copy of the Christmas special around |
| 17:54.48 | fozzmoo | spits on the ground and leaves. |
| 17:55.02 | harleypig | what Christmas special? |
| 17:55.15 | Jayce^ | harleypig, why the famous Star Wars Christmas Special :) |
| 17:55.20 | unum | only watches USA |
| 17:55.33 | tensai | the Harleypig Christmas Thong Special |
| 17:55.35 | Jayce^ | famous enough to make it into the White and Nerdy video :) |
| 17:55.36 | unum | so burn notice, monk, psyche, and law and order criminal intent |
| 17:55.42 | unum | and of course house reruns |
| 17:55.51 | harleypig | ah |
| 17:56.11 | harleypig | that wasn't a tv show ... that was an effort to sell VHS tapes. |
| 17:56.43 | Jayce^ | it was a tv special |
| 17:56.48 | goozbach | harleypig: don't infringe on my right to enjoy crappy tv specials |
| 17:56.51 | Jayce^ | hey, then there was that ewok tv show |
| 17:58.27 | harleypig | goozbach: heh |
| 17:58.43 | harleypig | Jayce^: You're claiming the ewok tv show? |
| 17:58.51 | Jayce^ | hoists his "Don't tread on me" flag |
| 17:59.18 | Jayce^ | harleypig, claiming it existed :) but just like a former Obama mentor, it get's buried under the bus by everybody :) |
| 17:59.22 | Jayce^ | it sucked bad |
| 17:59.41 | goozbach | the one with the little girl with the armband which told her when her family died? |
| 18:01.28 | fozzmoo | wishes he could go to lunch at Baileys. |
| 18:03.17 | Tene | Lunch? Lunch was SO two hours ago. |
| 18:03.34 | macnewbold | is anyone in here a Drupal developer? |
| 18:03.49 | fozzmoo | wonders when Tene started observing "normal" times for meals. |
| 18:04.10 | Tene | fozzmoo: since I've been teaching. :( |
| 18:04.24 | fozzmoo | remembers Tene picking up "breakfast" from Betos at 4 in the afternoon. |
| 18:04.50 | fozzmoo | Tene: You rock, you know. |
| 18:05.08 | Tene | I hadn't noticed recently. |
| 18:05.14 | Tene | Thanks. |
| 18:05.20 | fozzmoo | Tene: np |
| 18:05.43 | jsmith-teaching | goozbach: You a git guru? Or are you still a bzr zealot? |
| 18:05.56 | Tene | fozz was a bzr fan? |
| 18:06.06 | goozbach | jsmith-teaching: just a bzr zealot |
| 18:06.08 | Tene | Last I heard, fozz was suspicious of anything more modern than CVS. |
| 18:06.13 | Tene | Wait, I can't read. |
| 18:06.24 | Tene | fail. |
| 18:06.30 | jsmith-teaching | Anybody else here feel like helping me with a silly git problem? |
| 18:06.31 | fozzmoo | hee hee |
| 18:06.40 | goozbach | I know how to clone a git repo, and treat it like a bzr repo after that |
| 18:06.43 | fozzmoo | uses git on Fedora Documentation. |
| 18:07.01 | sjansen | jsmith-teaching: I know a bit about git. Tene knows more. |
| 18:07.04 | Tene | jsmith-teaching: I've been appointed the git guru at work. |
| 18:07.10 | fozzmoo | is a gitiot. |
| 18:07.23 | goozbach | or "GIT" for short |
| 18:07.25 | fozzmoo | (but learning more all the time.) |
| 18:07.51 | goozbach | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/git |
| 18:08.02 | tensai | only knows what he learned in 5 minutes from spr |
| 18:08.17 | Jayce^ | heads to lunch |
| 18:08.19 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: OK... here goes. I have cloned a git repo (hosted on gitweb) and then created my own branch called "ticket9". Instead of merging those back to origin/master, I accidentally merged them to origin/ticket9. |
| 18:08.23 | goozbach | pass the buck much |
| 18:08.24 | tensai | http://scottr.org/presentations/git-in-5-minutes/ |
| 18:08.25 | goozbach | ? |
| 18:08.40 | Tene | jsmith-teaching: okay. |
| 18:09.08 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: I can use "branch -d -r origin/ticket9" to delete the ticket9 branch from origin, but every time I do a 'git pull' it recreates the origin/ticket9 branch both locally and on the server |
| 18:10.20 | Tene | Okay, you're not actually deleting it from the server with that command |
| 18:10.38 | Tene | Lemme verify something... |
| 18:11.34 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: That's what I figured... |
| 18:11.44 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: Hence the reason I'm asking in here |
| 18:11.56 | jsmith-teaching | is secretly just making sure the topic stays away from politics for a while |
| 18:13.06 | tensai | heard that mccain wants to outlaw git |
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| 18:14.24 | jsmith-teaching | tensai: Or that Palin thought "git" was what the Russians wanted to do to Alaska? |
| 18:14.33 | tensai | ha! |
| 18:14.46 | Tene | Sorry, pulled away by a student |
| 18:14.58 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: I completely understand... I'm teaching this week too |
| 18:15.01 | Tene | jsmith-teaching: git push origin :ticket9 |
| 18:15.17 | Tene | will delete the branch on the server |
| 18:15.39 | Tene | then git branch -d -r origin/ticket9 |
| 18:16.30 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: Danke! |
| 18:16.35 | jsmith-teaching | Tene: That solved it, thanks... |
| 18:16.35 | Tene | np |
| 18:16.44 | jsmith-teaching | adds it to his Git documentation |
| 18:20.56 | tensai | http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/vista-pirated-half-as-much-as-xp-microsoft-rejoices/ |
| 18:20.59 | brac | [Vista pirated half as much as XP, Microsoft rejoices - Engadget] |
| 18:21.17 | tensai | or in other words, "Vista, so crappy people won't even *steal* it" |
| 18:24.26 | Reilithion | lol |
| 18:27.33 | tensai | jsmith-teaching: teaching where? |
| 18:27.33 | macnewbold | unum: I heard a rumor that you might do Drupal stuff... is that true? |
| 18:27.46 | unum | macnewbold: no I've been meaning to |
| 18:27.55 | unum | eightyeight has done drupal stuff |
| 18:28.05 | jsmith-teaching | tensai: I'm in New York City this week |
| 18:28.08 | macnewbold | eightyeight: you interested in some drupal consulting? |
| 18:28.54 | macnewbold | I've got a client who had some drupal stuff and a dev who left them hanging. I'm trying to put together a short list of people she could contact. |
| 18:30.06 | tensai | macnewbold: I've heard of lullabot. the did the twit site. |
| 18:30.15 | tensai | s/the/they/ |
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| 18:45.07 | eightyeight | macnewbold: i'm not. sorry. i did drupal back in the day, but haven't touched it in years |
| 19:01.00 | tensai | new post on factcheck.org that seems appropos to today's discussion |
| 19:01.03 | tensai | http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_rifle_associations_true_story.html |
| 19:01.04 | brac | [FactCheck.org: The Rifle Association's 'True Story'] |
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| 19:17.46 | elg | levi: car question for you |
| 19:18.59 | elg | recently car has been sluggish to start. but the battery seems to have plenty of juice. today it barely started once, now won't start at all. when I turn ignition i hear a click (louder under the hood) but no turnage. i tested the battery with my multimeter, it has 12 volts and voltage doesn't drop when turning ignition |
| 19:19.18 | elg | i'm thinking the starter |
| 19:19.41 | elg | can a starter fail slowly like that? |
| 19:26.22 | synic | maybe the terminals aren't connecting properly |
| 19:26.38 | synic | does it click and then everything just shuts off? |
| 19:27.34 | elg | checked the terminals, they're tight. brushed off some corrosion |
| 19:27.47 | peno | starter or solenoid |
| 19:27.50 | elg | click is strong, everything (power windows, etc.) works |
| 19:28.06 | elg | starter+solenoid |
| 19:28.11 | elg | luckily looks easy to replace |
| 19:28.45 | peno | some part stores will test if you take the start in |
| 19:30.50 | elg | my current plan is to lasso a pal and push start it, drive it to autozone, and have them check the battery and alternator, which would leave just the starter |
| 19:32.01 | RyanE | It's also possible that your starter is in a 'dead zone' on the commutator, that doesn't work anymore. |
| 19:32.16 | elg | would that explain slow cranking? |
| 19:32.34 | RyanE | It might, but doesn't necessarily. |
| 19:32.53 | elg | it cranked as if it's struggling to turn, finally refusing to try turning at all. other times (over the past week or so) it fires right up |
| 19:33.02 | elg | i think it may have to do with the cold |
| 19:33.03 | elg | "cold" |
| 19:33.06 | elg | -metar klru |
| 19:33.06 | brac | KLRU 231932Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 16/M22 A3023 RMK AO2 |
| 19:33.14 | RyanE | yeah, I'd guess starter, though, in any case. |
| 19:33.25 | elg | yeah so 16°C isn't exactly cold, but it's cooler than it's been (cold front today) |
| 19:33.32 | RyanE | my 90 Nissan PU refuses to start sometimes. Not cold-related. |
| 19:33.45 | RyanE | I'm suspecting the clutch switch. |
| 19:34.10 | tensai | elg: have you tried more duct tape and/or wd-40? |
| 19:34.12 | elg | funny thing is this battery seems to never die |
| 19:34.30 | elg | it has never given us trouble (even when we thought it might be, it always turns out to be something else) |
| 19:34.34 | elg | it has survived an abusive alternator |
| 19:34.44 | elg | it has been in there since we bought the car in '03 |
| 19:34.47 | RyanE | I just cleaned my terminals last night, and other than having to reset all my radio stations, it seems much better. |
| 19:35.05 | elg | it has never died even with indoor lights on overnight (and sometimes, years ago, headlights overnight) |
| 19:35.14 | RyanE | It's possible the abusive alternator actually *helped* the battery... Batteries are funny that way. |
| 19:35.19 | elg | it's a trooper, but I think it should be about dead by now |
| 19:35.31 | elg | heh, could be. it was charging at like 15 volts |
| 19:35.32 | RyanE | Yeah, 15 years is a bit over the top for battery life. :) |
| 19:35.45 | RyanE | sorry, I read '93 |
| 19:35.46 | RyanE | not '03 |
| 19:35.54 | RyanE | duh. I can do math, but not reading. go figure. |
| 19:35.56 | elg | yeah, '93 would be stretching it methinks :) |
| 19:38.38 | tensai | my battery is about that age. can't recall when but I bought it in utah and we moved out of there in '02. wait, that can't be right. |
| 19:39.12 | cgibreak | /refresh |
| 19:39.21 | cgibreak | eh, nvm |
| 19:47.38 | RyanE | cgibreak: refreshing, isn't it? :) |
| 19:51.35 | levi | elg: I had symptoms just like that with my Jeep. I don't recall if it was the battery or the starter, though. |
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| 20:12.44 | sjansen | > Quit yer "fact checking". The NRA is mother, father and lover. It should not be doubted. |
| 20:12.49 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (n=dsowen@fugue88.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:12.51 | harleypig | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=691 |
| 20:14.10 | fozzmoo | heee hee |
| 20:16.12 | Jayce^ | harleypig, that's crossing you and me for sjansen's pleasure |
| 20:16.29 | harleypig | refuses to do anything with that straight line |
| 20:23.46 | harleypig | elg couldn't handle the images. |
| 20:27.27 | ^Migs^ | harleypig, relative of yours? ;) |
| 20:27.39 | ^Migs^ | I don't know about you, but I think he's an Adonis |
| 20:29.16 | harleypig | ^Migs^: you're a sick man ... wait nicely for the men in white coats ... |
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| 20:51.55 | sjansen | "Using Xen as kernel for Genode would clear the way to remove the overly complex Linux OS from the trusted computing base of Xen guests OSes" |
| 20:52.00 | sjansen | Say huh? |
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| 20:52.53 | Tene | huh! |
| 20:53.35 | sjansen | Do they mean "replacing L4 with a hypervisor that has even fewer drivers"? Or do they mean "using Genode as a dom0 so that we can run a hypervisor with no drivers on an OS with no driver"? |
| 21:09.14 | fozzmoo | I think they mean "Use other translator site instead google." |
| 21:31.07 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php |
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| 21:31.43 | Jayce^ | "House Democrats Contemplate Abolishing 401(k) Tax Breaks" |
| 21:33.41 | Heartsbane | That'll never pass |
| 21:34.08 | Jayce^ | Heartsbane, they want to replace it with a "guaranteed" fund, administered by Social Security :) |
| 21:35.02 | Heartsbane | ya I am reading... I still think that will never pass. |
| 21:36.35 | Heartsbane | it still seems a very knee jerk reaction to insure retirement security |
| 21:37.06 | Jayce^ | Heartsbane, exactly |
| 21:37.13 | Jayce^ | very very bad idea |
| 21:38.04 | Heartsbane | they should just give Americans their cut of their Social Security now, and stop letting politians fuck with it |
| 21:38.19 | thaddeusq | ~language Heartsbane |
| 21:38.20 | ibot | ACTION grabs Heartsbane by the ear and washes Heartsbane's mouth out with soap |
| 21:38.29 | Heartsbane | mmmm.... soap |
| 21:38.40 | thaddeusq | I was afraid you might like the taste. |
| 21:38.49 | Heartsbane | let me get some bourbon to wash that down |
| 21:39.12 | Heartsbane | k another soap if you please |
| 21:39.20 | thaddeusq | :) |
| 21:39.37 | goozbach | Jayce^: forget an adventure trailer, I want one of these: http://jalopnik.com/5067352/the-unicat-amerigo-international-is-good-for-regular-zombie-or-financiapocalypse |
| 21:40.04 | Jayce^ | goozbach, seen that, pure awesome-sauce |
| 21:40.46 | Heartsbane | my statement still stands, just give me my SSA money now and let me invest it the way I want. God knows it isn't going to be around when I retire, if politians keep screwing around with it. |
| 21:40.56 | Jayce^ | Heartsbane, agreed.. |
| 21:41.22 | tensai | Heartsbane: yeah but your money isn't there anymore. it went out the door to pay somebody else who just retired. |
| 21:42.17 | Jayce^ | one big ponzi scheme :) |
| 21:42.55 | unum | don't forget all the money they leant themselves from the social security fund inorder to buy ICBM's |
| 21:42.56 | Heartsbane | sure but they still owe me some recompense for my contributions in, pony it up and stop with the ponzi scheme |
| 21:43.20 | Sargun | hi |
| 21:43.23 | Heartsbane | I can take my payment in ICBM |
| 21:43.33 | unum | oooh that would be nice |
| 21:43.36 | Sargun | I WANT ICBM |
| 21:44.00 | Heartsbane | Hell, as a American I would like to say I am a bank owner |
| 21:44.18 | Heartsbane | thaddeusq: that is the soap/bourbon talking |
| 21:44.33 | thaddeusq | talk away, Heartsbane, talk away |
| 21:44.49 | thaddeusq | Heartsbane: I must say that I agree with your sentiments. |
| 21:45.09 | Heartsbane | about bourbon/soap or the SSA? |
| 21:45.12 | Jayce^ | unum, and every program in the 1990's that's how we "balanced the budget".. by raiding social security |
| 21:45.39 | unum | I just like saying icbm's |
| 21:45.43 | Jayce^ | heck, I'd settle just for the icbm site :) underground housing at it's best (and worst) |
| 21:46.23 | Heartsbane | Jayce^: you know move to Wichita... I saw a couple years ago they are selling old silos for just that |
| 21:46.42 | Heartsbane | if you can stand flat land |
| 21:46.56 | Jayce^ | Heartsbane, they had some in montana too.. but pricey :( |
| 21:47.15 | unum | but they owe me for my social security money |
| 21:47.23 | unum | actually I doubt I've paid that much in |
| 21:48.23 | unum | three years ago I was a poor starving college student |
| 21:48.36 | tensai | 2 grams of uranium for unum, 2 grams of uranium for Heartsbane, 2 grams of uranium for thaddeusq, ... |
| 21:48.49 | tensai | hands out refunds |
| 21:49.23 | Heartsbane | w00t, can we pool our uranium? |
| 21:50.18 | Jayce^ | Uranium Union? |
| 21:50.42 | Heartsbane | k funs over I am fresh out of bourbon and I think Thad has more soap BBL |
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| 23:20.22 | harleypig | what's the name of the module that tells you what the actual name of the script you're running? |
| 23:20.25 | harleypig | in perl? |
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| 23:21.01 | bonez45 | I just installed ubuntu server edition.. I know what passwds I set it up with, but those passwd's don't work.. what did I do wrong? |
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| 23:28.36 | jlp_work | harleypig: is $0 not sufficient? |
| 23:29.15 | jnbek | $0 there harleypig ;) |
| 23:30.51 | Tene | harleypig: if you need path etc, check out FindBin. |
| 23:34.35 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.145.57.253) |
| 23:52.59 | harleypig | tene that was it, thx |
| 23:53.34 | harleypig | jlp_work: no ... the script was being generated and copied to another server and needed to be deleted upon completion. |
| 23:53.51 | harleypig | no guaruntees on the location on the remote server. |
| 23:55.07 | Tene | $0 only has name, not path. |