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| 01:30.15 | ender_x | Hello |
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| 14:37.55 | fozzmoo | Morning, Jayce^ |
| 14:39.51 | Jayce^ | grumbles, mornin |
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| 15:03.13 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 15:03.14 | ibot | squishes pashdown like a bug |
| 15:03.24 | pashdown | i did what? |
| 15:03.39 | sjansen | pashdown: Wrong place, wrong time. |
| 15:04.23 | sjansen | pashdown: That, or ibot hates you. But you'll have to discuss that possibility with her. |
| 15:04.29 | pashdown | heh |
| 15:04.49 | pashdown | would she like an offering of burnt cd's? |
| 15:05.31 | sjansen | ~offer burnt cd's |
| 15:05.57 | Sargun_Screen | What bothers me more - the fact this web page makes a browser take more than 130 mb, or that I only have 128 mb of ram on this device |
| 15:06.35 | pashdown | everything i need can be done in 64K |
| 15:07.58 | sjansen | Does that mean I can have you laptop? |
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| 15:11.01 | pashdown | yes, but it is a hacked apple ][ laptop |
| 15:11.24 | pashdown | let me send you an emulator instead :) |
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| 15:22.01 | levi | Good morning. |
| 15:23.59 | Tene | hi! |
| 15:24.04 | elg | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7678371.stm |
| 15:24.07 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Health | Bee Gees hit could save your life] |
| 15:24.10 | elg | ~dance |
| 15:24.11 | ibot | <(*.*<) <(*.*)> \(*.*)/ (>*.*)> |
| 15:24.27 | elg | ~dance |
| 15:24.27 | ibot | <(*.*<) <(*.*)> \(*.*)/ (>*.*)> |
| 15:33.55 | sjansen | ~seen harleypig |
| 15:34.02 | ibot | harleypig is currently on #utos #utah. Has said a total of 308 messages. Is idling for 2d 20h 56m 57s, last said: 'lukfugl: it's my purpose in life to poke people in the brain'. |
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| 15:44.07 | goozbach | ~seen goozbach |
| 15:44.08 | ibot | goozbach is currently on #utos (7d 2h 50m 37s) #utah (7d 2h 50m 37s) #lugot (7d 2h 50m 37s). Has said a total of 99 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen goozbach'. |
| 15:44.16 | goozbach | just 99? |
| 15:44.19 | goozbach | ~seen goozbach |
| 15:44.20 | ibot | goozbach is currently on #utos (7d 2h 50m 49s) #utah (7d 2h 50m 49s) #lugot (7d 2h 50m 49s). Has said a total of 101 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen goozbach'. |
| 15:44.27 | goozbach | woo! 100 |
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| 16:14.35 | levi | Wow, the Trib endorsed Obama. |
| 16:17.25 | high_roller | the Trib is liberal |
| 16:17.41 | levi | They endorsed Bush in both of the previous two elections. |
| 16:18.11 | high_roller | show how much I read the Trip :) |
| 16:18.14 | levi | If you think the Trib is liberal, you've been living in Utah too long. |
| 16:18.14 | high_roller | Trib |
| 16:18.48 | high_roller | over all I don't think that newpapers should endorse candidates |
| 16:19.39 | levi | Why not? |
| 16:20.07 | high_roller | well it shows obvious bias |
| 16:20.21 | tensai | so? everyone has bias. |
| 16:20.35 | levi | Editorials always show bias. |
| 16:20.40 | Jayce^ | high_roller, but historically, newspapers were specifically about their bias... it's only recently that we expect them to be "fair" as we call it |
| 16:20.42 | levi | That's why they go in the editorial section. |
| 16:20.45 | high_roller | news outlets shouldn't have obvious bias it takes all the fun out of guessing what their bias is |
| 16:21.18 | Jayce^ | newspapers used to be founded on a specific bias, you paid attention to the one you liked.. |
| 16:21.39 | harleypig | nice last words of mine :> |
| 16:21.43 | high_roller | well if its in the editorial section, then I assume its the person's personal opinion, rather than the organization's opinions |
| 16:21.59 | RyanE | no, it's the editorial board's opinion. |
| 16:22.18 | high_roller | RyanE: true, their the ones that decide to print it |
| 16:23.05 | unum | they get together and dicuss who they want to endorse for each race |
| 16:23.10 | Jayce^ | tv news has led us more to the "oh they are just reporting, not spinning"... until recently :) now we are all angry when we realized there is opinion there |
| 16:23.11 | RyanE | When it's 'the paper's' opinion, it typically comes from the editorial board of the paper. |
| 16:23.45 | unum | did they endorse shurtlef or hill? |
| 16:23.58 | unum | I think they endorsed the republican for all other state wide races |
| 16:24.18 | RyanE | it's because they're so liberal. :) |
| 16:24.19 | high_roller | I've voting for Bob Barr |
| 16:24.33 | unum | RyanE: well with huntsman you might have a point :) |
| 16:24.57 | unum | despite the current issues I still think the federal reserve is a good thing |
| 16:25.01 | unum | is not a libertarian |
| 16:25.05 | unum | I was going to vote nader |
| 16:25.11 | unum | but I think obama has won me over |
| 16:25.20 | unum | especially with powells endorsement |
| 16:26.28 | unum | I believe eccles knew what he was doing |
| 16:28.41 | Jayce^ | I think voting either of the big two is just going to make things far worse. |
| 16:29.05 | unum | I think voting for John Dougal is going to make things far worse |
| 16:29.23 | Jayce^ | John's a pretty good guy |
| 16:29.31 | unum | he was a jerk to me |
| 16:29.38 | Jayce^ | can usually talk to him pretty openly |
| 16:29.50 | harleypig | Ozzy did a cover of Stayin' Alive ... |
| 16:29.55 | unum | plus he's made Utah the laughing stock of the tech community |
| 16:30.16 | harleypig | unum: I haven't seen too many people laughing at us. |
| 16:30.36 | Jayce^ | unum, *he* did it? no, I think you can say utah is a laughing stock of most communities.. |
| 16:30.57 | RyanE | Voting for SuperDell... now *that* would make a laughing stock of Utah. |
| 16:31.09 | Jayce^ | agreed |
| 16:31.11 | sjansen | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=434 |
| 16:31.56 | ^Migs^ | http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f149/religious-lady-has-miscarrage-keeps-9496/ |
| 16:32.49 | unum | http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=717374&seqNum=3 |
| 16:32.50 | levi | SUPERDELL has made a laughingstock of the Utah Libertarian Party. |
| 16:33.19 | Jayce^ | levi, and you know, they always need just a little more help with that :) |
| 16:34.02 | unum | "Utah makes my dud-law list three timesâa hat trick of legislative incompetence. This is such a remarkable feat that we might consider banning Utah from enacting further Internet regulations until Utah can show that it will use its powers wisely." |
| 16:34.37 | unum | Dougal has played a key role in each of those laws except for of courses Hatch's DMCA |
| 16:35.17 | unum | oh and that list doesn't even cover the port 80 law |
| 16:36.33 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 16:36.40 | sjansen | I'm voting Bob Ross for president. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ross |
| 16:36.46 | ^Migs^ | Utah's lawmakers DO confuse me often |
| 16:36.59 | mrpull | sjansen: the painter? |
| 16:37.04 | ^Migs^ | usually just Orrin Hatch |
| 16:37.05 | unum | mine state rep doesn't confuse me |
| 16:37.14 | unum | Hatch is insane. |
| 16:37.16 | ^Migs^ | there should be a law that old people can't be politicians |
| 16:37.19 | unum | that's all there is to that |
| 16:37.23 | ^Migs^ | they're just crazy and senile |
| 16:37.32 | ^Migs^ | out of touch with reality |
| 16:37.38 | unum | but of course keep in mind the republican party keeps choosing to send him back |
| 16:37.41 | mrpull | sjansen: YES. he could plant happy trees everywhere |
| 16:37.52 | unum | probably because they are all old and senile and out of touch |
| 16:37.59 | mrpull | sjansen: except he is dead. rats. |
| 16:38.04 | Jayce^ | "...just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..." |
| 16:38.11 | ^Migs^ | people are scared to change, so they just pick the incumbents. That's hardly a "republican" thing. |
| 16:38.18 | unum | of course I don't know why "libertarians" are complaining about superdell your state party picked him |
| 16:38.30 | unum | I'm not complaing about bob spring meier |
| 16:38.33 | sjansen | Change often doesn't make economic sense. |
| 16:38.34 | unum | though I can't spell his name |
| 16:38.35 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, oh yeah, that explains winners like feinstein, pelosi, etc :) |
| 16:38.56 | sjansen | The longer someone spends on spends on the Congress the more pork they can bring home. |
| 16:38.58 | unum | ^Migs^: they threw cannon out |
| 16:39.07 | Jayce^ | unum, I think because he was the only one willing to put up the money for his own race (just a guess there, but what I'd go with) |
| 16:39.15 | sjansen | As for our state legislature, at least they know how to balance a budget. |
| 16:39.19 | ^Migs^ | hmmm. Maybe we should just conclude that people really don't have a clue when it comes to voting for the right person. |
| 16:39.53 | unum | sjansen: they have to balance the budget. it would be illegal to do otherwise |
| 16:40.03 | unum | ^Migs^: I think we can agree on that :) |
| 16:40.23 | sjansen | Nan, they could just change the law. Plenty of other states seem to consider a balanced budget optional. |
| 16:40.31 | unum | actually I like the area I'm in now. people seem to be pretty reasonable, when I lived in davis and cache county it was different |
| 16:40.45 | unum | sjansen: they would have to get voter approval to change that "law" |
| 16:41.18 | sjansen | Why do you think we're switching to electronic fraud^W voting? |
| 16:42.03 | unum | to get more republicans elected |
| 16:42.04 | fozzmoo | I found John Stossel's report on Rock-The-Vote-esque movements interesting. |
| 16:42.16 | Jayce^ | and sjansen better not try validating those voter records... that's disenfranchisement.. |
| 16:42.38 | Jayce^ | unum, you *really* think it's somehow a republican conspiracy? really? |
| 16:43.18 | sjansen | Let's put it this way: If McCain wins we'll be one step closer to the bad old Brazilian form of government. |
| 16:43.39 | fozzmoo | Voters should have to pass a basic civics test before being able to vote. |
| 16:43.41 | harleypig | It's a conspiracy where all the conspiring parties are republican ... there's a difference. |
| 16:43.52 | fozzmoo | I like that idea. |
| 16:43.57 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I think we have a better chance of avoiding it with him.. having a supermajority + white house in the same party is an extremely bad thing |
| 16:43.57 | sjansen | Yes, I do think there are a group of Republicans specifically targeting demographics most likely to be Democratic. |
| 16:44.08 | fozzmoo | But wait. That's class-discrimination! |
| 16:44.17 | fozzmoo | That would discriminate against stupid people. |
| 16:44.23 | fozzmoo | I'd love to see the protests. |
| 16:44.32 | sjansen | And I'm not the only one, as recent arrests have shown. |
| 16:44.34 | Jayce^ | I'd rather them contrast and do *less*.. would be much better for us |
| 16:44.44 | ^Migs^ | maybe people should have at least an IQ of 100 to vote |
| 16:45.01 | sjansen | Jayce^: I'm not talking about McCain as president. I'm talking about the manipulation of voting machines it'll probably take to get McCain elected as president. |
| 16:45.20 | harleypig | I like RAH's philosophy ... you have to have served in the military before being able to vote. |
| 16:45.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen, and you don't see any manipulation the other direction? ta doido mesmo |
| 16:45.40 | levi | RAH was an idiot when it comes to philosophy, but he wrote some fun stories. |
| 16:45.54 | harleypig | levi: ? in what way? |
| 16:45.57 | fozzmoo | ^Migs^: Nah- I just want them to be able to answer simple questions like "How many senators are elected from each state" and "What is the Bill Of Rights" |
| 16:46.00 | Jayce^ | harleypig, service earns citizenship.. and yet it can be twisted |
| 16:46.13 | sjansen | There's plenty of reason civilians should have a say in civilian government. |
| 16:46.13 | harleypig | anything can be (and has been) twisted |
| 16:46.30 | Jayce^ | like obamas 'citizen army corps' :) |
| 16:46.45 | harleypig | obama supports militia? |
| 16:46.57 | jsmith | wanted to be a star running back at the Electoral College |
| 16:47.05 | fozzmoo | wonders what the Obama Corps will be armed with... cardboard guns? |
| 16:47.31 | harleypig | leather ball gags |
| 16:47.58 | Jayce^ | harleypig, alternative to milita, override the terminology |
| 16:48.03 | fozzmoo | harleypig: hee hee. |
| 16:48.28 | unum | I think you should have to able to identify each level and branch of goverment and mention a couple of things they control |
| 16:48.48 | harleypig | Jayce^: alternative in what way/ |
| 16:48.56 | harleypig | s/\//?/ |
| 16:49.10 | fozzmoo | unum: Yeah. |
| 16:49.23 | fozzmoo | John Stossel asked some of these kids questions like "What's Roe v Wade?" |
| 16:49.33 | fozzmoo | "Uhm... that's like a white person and a black person..." |
| 16:49.46 | fozzmoo | "That's like women and voting..." |
| 16:49.55 | harleypig | That's where you either ride in a boat or walk in the water right? |
| 16:49.56 | Jayce^ | harleypig, http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/ |
| 16:50.02 | brac | [Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Service] |
| 16:50.23 | fozzmoo | I don't know if recognition of Roe v Wade is a question I'd want on a voter test... |
| 16:50.34 | fozzmoo | but definitely an understanding of the structure of government. |
| 16:50.38 | fozzmoo | Like unum said. |
| 16:50.40 | Jayce^ | goes along with his foundations work in 'community organizing' with the money from clintons handout bills :) |
| 16:51.13 | sjansen | We already have a test. It's called citizenship. If you're a citizen you get to vote. No poll tax. Not literacy requirement. One citizen, create equal, with one vote. |
| 16:51.45 | harleypig | Jayce^: actually, I like that idea ... based on that page it doesn't appear to be an attempt to overshadow militia. |
| 16:51.47 | Jayce^ | hey, and if you go through acorn, you don't even have to be alive to vote :) |
| 16:51.59 | unum | and there is a good reason we do that, but sometimes.... |
| 16:52.06 | fozzmoo | hehh heh. |
| 16:52.09 | RyanE | you can even be fictitious! |
| 16:52.11 | Jayce^ | harleypig, that's because your reading the campaign page, look at his *previous* work with that same thread |
| 16:52.29 | Jayce^ | RyanE, apparently football teams get extra votes, probably because they're so cool |
| 16:52.39 | neybar | RyanE: what about imaginary friends? Will Acorn allow that? |
| 16:52.49 | RyanE | neybar: I'm sure they would. |
| 16:53.29 | levi | His campaign page couldn't possibly have his *real* plans on it, because that wouldn't be nearly nefarious enough. |
| 16:53.35 | neybar | Jayce^: Maybe we should call them Obama's Youth. |
| 16:53.41 | RyanE | neybar: ouch. |
| 16:53.44 | Jayce^ | they probably canvassed Foster's home |
| 16:53.52 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Real all about it by Googling "Public Allies" |
| 16:53.54 | fozzmoo | http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700 |
| 16:53.58 | Jayce^ | actually, there are some "obama's youth" videos on youtube.. |
| 16:54.07 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, yeah, that's one of them |
| 16:54.28 | sjansen | At the point you start comparing your opponent to Hitler, it's time to give up and walk away. You've already lost. |
| 16:54.50 | RyanE | There is no Godwin's law for Politics. |
| 16:54.51 | fozzmoo | While I'm concerned about Obama's new new deal ideas... |
| 16:54.53 | Jayce^ | "Our alumni are more than twice as likely as 18-34 year olds to . . . engage in protest activities," Public Allies boasts in a document found with its tax filing.. |
| 16:55.12 | neybar | sjansen: heh, at least I'm an equal opportunity hater. :) |
| 16:55.26 | fozzmoo | what really pisses me off about the Public Allies story is that it's just another example of federal funds going to non-profits. |
| 16:55.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen, they chose the name :) actually, I'd equeate him more with stalin in policies.. though there is a hybrid form of facism there |
| 16:55.29 | fozzmoo | Like ACORN |
| 16:55.39 | fozzmoo | that's another example. |
| 16:56.05 | sjansen | Fine, Stuart's Law: At the point you start to compare your opponent to Hitler, it's time to walk away because your slipping grasp of reality means you no longer deserve, nor are you likely to win. |
| 16:56.05 | Jayce^ | while mccain usually just stumbles around in the middle, trying to hitch on to whatever others are running |
| 16:56.11 | fozzmoo | I don't blame one party over another for that... it's just more gratuitous govt spending. |
| 16:56.43 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, like you said the other day, voting for the Democrat, or the Marxist |
| 16:56.53 | fozzmoo | nods |
| 16:57.05 | levi | You guys are silly. |
| 16:57.16 | Jayce^ | we must be levi, we don't agree with you :) |
| 16:57.18 | levi | Obama a Marxist? Gimme a break. |
| 16:57.26 | fozzmoo | levi: uh huh. |
| 16:57.26 | Jayce^ | levi, really? why? |
| 16:57.41 | fozzmoo | He's a loyal disciple of Saul Alinsky |
| 16:58.02 | levi | Because he's a centrist. |
| 16:58.06 | unum | I've heard him argue for violent over throw of the ruling class and current constitutional system |
| 16:58.26 | neybar | what about equal distribution of wealth |
| 16:58.36 | unum | haven't heard him argue for that |
| 16:58.36 | neybar | which never works btw. |
| 16:58.38 | RyanE | you mean 'spread the wealth'. |
| 16:58.43 | fozzmoo | Centrist?! |
| 16:58.43 | RyanE | it sounds better. |
| 16:58.45 | Jayce^ | levi, and that's like calling mccain a neo-con... the only 'centrist' he cares about is centralization of everything |
| 16:58.53 | unum | fozzmoo: it all depends on your scale |
| 16:58.59 | Jayce^ | unum, he's said it many times.. |
| 16:59.12 | sjansen | Citation Needed |
| 16:59.14 | unum | Jayce^: he's used that term? |
| 16:59.21 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 16:59.28 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@wsddevdude.weber.k12.ut.us) |
| 16:59.28 | fozzmoo | unum: You're right. He may be a centrist of extremes, but he's definitely not a centrist in the American mainstream. He's very left of mainstream. |
| 16:59.46 | RyanE | he said 'spread the wealth' in the last debate, re: Joe the Plumber. |
| 16:59.49 | Jayce^ | spread the wealth, redistribute the wealth, spread things around... he has numerous quotes saying those things |
| 17:00.00 | RyanE | http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/ |
| 17:00.07 | unum | I prefer the scale at political compass that shows him as the conservative that he is |
| 17:00.14 | levi | He is clearly for redistributing wealth. That's not the same as equal distribution of wealth. |
| 17:00.23 | sjansen | Heh. So tickle down economics weren't an attempt to spread the wealth? |
| 17:00.31 | Jayce^ | unum, "I prefer the map that puts him where I want to believe him to be" |
| 17:00.37 | fozzmoo | unum: Exactly my point. EVERYONE in the US would be a conservative on the Political Compass map. |
| 17:00.39 | sjansen | Finally Republicans are willing to admit that trickle down was a plan to concentrate the wealth? |
| 17:00.40 | harleypig | tickle me economics? |
| 17:00.48 | unum | I watched the debate and heard mccain say that obama that, but never obama |
| 17:00.48 | levi | There's no US politician that is NOT for some sort of redistribution of wealth, except possibly Ron Paul. :P |
| 17:01.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen, trickle down was the "don't tax, and things will happen"... his trickle up is "Take the money, give it to people, who will use it in ways we want" |
| 17:01.24 | Jayce^ | eg, on one the government is the middle man in passing of funds |
| 17:01.27 | sjansen | Better than "spend money we don't have". |
| 17:01.30 | Jayce^ | an active role |
| 17:01.53 | Jayce^ | sjansen, straw argument there.. completely unrelated.. I disagree with that policy as well |
| 17:01.59 | sjansen | Republicans have zero basis to complain about "tax and spend" when their new party platform is "don't tax and spend even more". |
| 17:02.05 | fozzmoo | Obama's quoted on record saying that universal education, healthcare, etc. are situated to affect disproportionate numbers of black americans... |
| 17:02.28 | sjansen | If you get to define the Obama platform, I get to define the Republican platform. |
| 17:02.31 | Jayce^ | sjansen, so why do you always assume I'm in that camp? just because I hate one candidate I *have* to be in the other "big" camp? |
| 17:02.32 | fozzmoo | (because they're in poverty more than other racial classes) and he believes this is how the govt should pay reparations for slavery. |
| 17:02.38 | sjansen | At least I'm not affiliated. |
| 17:02.42 | Jayce^ | sjansen, oh, I define theirs too... |
| 17:02.54 | unum | fozzmoo: citation need on the reparations? |
| 17:03.07 | fozzmoo | unum: I'll see if I can dig that up for you. |
| 17:03.16 | unum | or do just mean the universal health care, and education stuff |
| 17:03.25 | neybar | sjansen: agreed. I think it is ludicrist to spend more and lower taxes. I don't want more taxes anymore than the next guy, but it boggles the mind to think of our current spending habits. |
| 17:03.30 | Jayce^ | I actually am registered R now, had to to be able to vote in primaries to try and oust cannon.. second time in my life i've affiliated, and plan on changing back again.. |
| 17:03.45 | unum | or do you mean a seperate cash payment just to descendants of american slaves(which him and powel are not) |
| 17:04.00 | fozzmoo | http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-02-candidate_N.htm |
| 17:04.02 | brac | [Obama opposes slavery reparations - USATODAY.com] |
| 17:04.09 | fozzmoo | Just google "Obama reparations" |
| 17:04.12 | unum | oh he opposes them |
| 17:04.15 | unum | that I believe |
| 17:04.20 | fozzmoo | unum: READ the article! |
| 17:04.21 | unum | sorry I must have misread |
| 17:04.40 | fozzmoo | He opposes reparations because they don't go FAR ENOUGH\ |
| 17:04.51 | sjansen | unum: No, you didn't. fozzmoo said the because Obama opposes reparations he must be in favor of reparations. |
| 17:05.07 | sjansen | It's called Double Think. Quite useful, really. |
| 17:05.08 | unum | sjansen: thans for clarifying |
| 17:05.29 | fozzmoo | "If we have a program, for example, of universal health care, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because they're disproportionately uninsured," Obama said. "If we've got an agenda that says every child in America should get â should be able to go to college, regardless of income, that will disproportionately affect people of color, because it's oftentimes our children who can't afford to go to college." |
| 17:05.43 | fozzmoo | That's Obama |
| 17:05.51 | unum | and that's not marx |
| 17:05.51 | fozzmoo | That's Obama's ideas of just reparations. |
| 17:05.59 | unum | I agree with it |
| 17:05.59 | JoshH | doesn't seem too unreasonable |
| 17:06.22 | JoshH | obviously those kind of programs will help more poor people than non |
| 17:06.26 | unum | it's not marxism that's for sure |
| 17:06.34 | fozzmoo | Sheesh. We're going to be paying for the sins of our great-great-great grandfathers until the Sun burns out. |
| 17:06.38 | harleypig | feh ... it's too late if we wait til they get to college. |
| 17:06.39 | sjansen | fozzmoo: So your in favor of allow a large part of our population fester in unproductive poverty? |
| 17:06.43 | Jayce^ | why should the government be responsible for *any* of that?! |
| 17:06.48 | harleypig | It should start at pre-school. |
| 17:07.02 | JoshH | technically it shouldn't |
| 17:07.04 | sjansen | Because we benefit when our citizens are able to do higher quality work. |
| 17:07.22 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, remember, wasn't it NYT, or was in WAPO who's headline article last week was about mccain having a great-great-great-grandparent that had a slave? |
| 17:07.24 | JoshH | but id rather spend on education than spend on fixing iraq, and it is better for the country in the long run to have a more educated population |
| 17:07.28 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Oh, yeah. Anything we can just hand out to those impoverished people will get them out of poverty. It's worked great since "The War On Poverty" was declared. |
| 17:07.50 | JoshH | fozzmoo: lots of people have gotten out of poverty with charitable and governmental assistance |
| 17:07.55 | levi | rolls eyes. |
| 17:07.55 | Jayce^ | sjansen, that's not the job of the Federal government! if we do that, it's supposed to be at most at the *state* level |
| 17:08.01 | fozzmoo | Or local. |
| 17:08.07 | JoshH | lots of ways |
| 17:08.11 | fozzmoo | Charitable organizations, yes. |
| 17:08.13 | levi | Okay, you guys have fun with your straw men. |
| 17:08.14 | fozzmoo | Federal govt, no. |
| 17:08.27 | fozzmoo | shoves some straw in levi's mouth. |
| 17:08.38 | sjansen | fozzmoo: You really think Obama's plan is to drive through downtown Philly with dump trucks of cash just shoveling it over the side instead of experimenting to find effective programs and eliminate unproductive ones? |
| 17:08.39 | Jayce^ | lights it :) flame fest :) |
| 17:09.08 | sjansen | Remember, his goal is to get people out of poverty. If cash alone were the answer, he'd just be encouraging everyone to start dealing drugs to Beverly Hills. |
| 17:10.25 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I have a difference of opinion on how to get people out of poverty. Community organizing only gives poor people false hope and optimism about their current situation. Tells them it's okay to be poor, because you're part of a whole community of poor, starving, uneducated people. |
| 17:10.35 | Jayce^ | that's like saying raising the minimum wage eliminates poverty |
| 17:10.46 | fozzmoo | I prefer Ben Franklin's philosophy on helping the poor. |
| 17:10.48 | sjansen | Let's all be clear on one point: It is the business of government to improve the situation of _all_ citizens. It is the responsibility of _all_ citizens to make sacrifices for the great good. |
| 17:10.52 | harleypig | and lowering the poverty line |
| 17:10.54 | fozzmoo | Kick their ass out of poverty. |
| 17:11.11 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Whoa. |
| 17:11.38 | fozzmoo | What happened to just maintaining infrastructure and keeping citizens safe? |
| 17:11.46 | harleypig | sjansen: I agree ... with the exception that the citizen should *knowingly agree* to that sacrifice, not have it forced upon them. |
| 17:11.56 | harleypig | s/exception/qualification/ |
| 17:11.59 | fozzmoo | it's that kind of philosophy that gets people talking about the "right" of health care and the "right" to housing. |
| 17:11.59 | Jayce^ | it is not the responsibility to *improve* the situations, it's to guarantee the ability to imrpove oneself |
| 17:12.14 | sjansen | We have a system for agreeing: it's called voting. If you don't like the way things are decided, time to leave the country. |
| 17:12.21 | fozzmoo | And I believe the government has stolen people's right to FAIL. |
| 17:12.27 | bbeattie | I've got a friend who's old linux box is rebooting randomly and his cisco 777 goes into a bad state at the same time (doesn't train up from a power cycle or looses connectivity). He's swapped UPS's and it's still happening (thinking it was a power problem). Anyone know if there's some exploit out or if the fact that the system and DSL modem are having problems at the same time gives any clues to what is going on? The linux box is a 4 year old debian... |
| 17:12.28 | sjansen | We'll never have 100% agreement on every issue. Instead, we try to do the best we can. |
| 17:12.39 | ^Migs^ | http://www.junauza.com/2008/10/top-12-most-absurd-quotes-by-steve.html |
| 17:12.49 | sjansen | bbeattie: You comments are off topic here. |
| 17:12.55 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 17:12.55 | RyanE | heh |
| 17:12.59 | bbeattie | haha |
| 17:13.00 | harleypig | bbeattie: you're asking a technical question in the plug channel!? |
| 17:13.00 | bbeattie | ;) |
| 17:13.01 | neybar | :) |
| 17:13.20 | bbeattie | ryane: btw, I've got the asterisk module done now for control4... |
| 17:13.23 | RyanE | this is #utah-politics-straw-man-obama-is-a-marxist |
| 17:13.39 | tensai | bbeattie: really does sound like a power problem to me |
| 17:13.41 | RyanE | bbeattie: cool. I'd be interested in taking a look at it, if you want to email it to me. |
| 17:13.49 | harleypig | and #utah-politics-straw-man-mccain-is-a-something-or-other |
| 17:13.53 | JoshH | theoretically, the completely hands off approach from government sounds great, but in reality, we have lots of government spending on all sorts of things. i'd rather we cut it in some areas, like the military industrial complex, and use it for education and health care instead. because the minimalist government the ultra conservatives and libertarians preach about simply isn't going to happen. |
| 17:14.04 | JoshH | and smart, healthy citizens will make this a better country |
| 17:14.37 | Jayce^ | if we have any health care and education spending, it should be our *state* and *county* governments, the way it was designed... the feds should be hands off |
| 17:14.50 | JoshH | why does it matter? |
| 17:14.51 | fozzmoo | Jefferson, for example, was all for public education. |
| 17:14.55 | harleypig | JoshH: that's a recipe for raising naif citizens ... which is just as bad |
| 17:14.57 | JoshH | either way, it's a government and it's taxes |
| 17:15.03 | Jayce^ | people should start thinking of themselves as state citizens first |
| 17:15.08 | bbeattie | tensai: ever hear of a linux box going down, taking out a cisco 777 router? (I've never used a 777, but I've heard they're pretty reliable) |
| 17:15.09 | fozzmoo | He said each school should be run by a school board... a board for THAT school. |
| 17:15.09 | JoshH | local, state, feds, they all have power over our lives |
| 17:15.20 | neybar | I say we get rid of "no child left behind" let kids actually work their way through school. Handing out free diplomas isn't doing anyone any good. |
| 17:15.22 | bbeattie | ryane: willdo, need to clean up some debug and I'll pass it over |
| 17:15.25 | Jayce^ | JoshH, because that's how our country was designed to run.. it nulls out many of the annoying issues we bicker about now.. |
| 17:15.34 | fozzmoo | neybar: Yeah. Some children should be left behind. |
| 17:15.38 | Jayce^ | same arguments people have for buying organic food apply to politics.. |
| 17:15.56 | Jayce^ | but why is it the people who care most about arganic food want inorganic government, and vice-versa |
| 17:16.05 | bbeattie | I want my children to be as dumb as the dumbest kid in class, what's wrong with no child left behind? |
| 17:16.13 | fozzmoo | chews on a plastic carrot. |
| 17:16.25 | Jayce^ | neybar, but that would mean less money for the teachers union though |
| 17:16.29 | sjansen | fozzmoo: If you don't believe that it is in the best interest of everyone in community to improve the situation of everyone in the community, we're never going to arrive at an agreement. |
| 17:17.10 | Jayce^ | sjansen, he does, you are just talking about a very different community |
| 17:17.23 | fozzmoo | sjansen: It's in the best interest of everyone in the community for each person to improve their own situation. |
| 17:17.35 | neybar | sjansen: I agree that we should be improving each other, but who is better equipt for that mission? Some far-away, out of touch government official, or your next door neighboor? |
| 17:18.00 | sjansen | Because, of course, all the the lowest classes need are a little magical pixie dust and a good old fashion wuppin' to set them straight. |
| 17:18.04 | fozzmoo | Who does a better job getting people out of poverty? The United States Government or the LDS Church? |
| 17:18.08 | Jayce^ | neybar, generic programs always turn out better for individual needs :) |
| 17:18.09 | JoshH | but when certain people have a much more difficult time improving theirs, and more of them start turning to crime, it drags the quality of life down for the rest of us |
| 17:18.20 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Have you ever spent time surrounded by real poverty? |
| 17:18.24 | unum | neybar: it depends is my next door neighbor any smarter than I am |
| 17:18.49 | fozzmoo | Real poverty? |
| 17:18.49 | neybar | Jayce^: that's why the federal welfare program is such a smashing success at improving the lives of those that use it. |
| 17:18.51 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah that brasilian government did a great job of improving people station with their socialized programs |
| 17:18.56 | fozzmoo | I don't think we actually have any real poverty in the USA. |
| 17:19.06 | sjansen | Jayce^: Actually, yes they are starting to do a pretty good job. |
| 17:19.11 | fozzmoo | Even the "poorest" among us have TVs and microwave ovens. |
| 17:19.12 | harleypig | fozzmoo: ?! what makes you say that? |
| 17:19.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen, did you ever actually try to get healthcare down there? |
| 17:19.37 | sjansen | The problem with Brazilian government hasn't been their socialized programs, it's been the rampant corruption and oversized government. |
| 17:20.07 | neybar | unum: if the neighboor on your left is dumb, then try the one on the right, or the guy across the street. You can't tell me that no one in your immediate neighborhood is capable of extending a hand in times of need. |
| 17:20.10 | sjansen | Jayce^: As it happens, yes. It was better than people in a similar economic position would get here. |
| 17:20.18 | fozzmoo | Obama wants the US to help "cure" poverty in the world. At that point, even the poorest among us in the US become the "evil rich people" from whom it's fair to take tax revenues and redistribute among the poor. |
| 17:20.41 | Jayce^ | sjansen, definately not the experience I had down there.. 6 month wait for an x-ray |
| 17:21.00 | JoshH | i don't think obama thinks he can cure poverty, but he probably does want to raise the average standard of living |
| 17:21.03 | fozzmoo | One of the few things he's voted on and sponsored in the US senate. And he wants the UN to administer the program. |
| 17:21.13 | JoshH | we behind places like costa rica in life expectancy |
| 17:21.17 | fozzmoo | Goes along with his recent comments about "changing the world." |
| 17:21.18 | Jayce^ | but hey, some programs work, like removing the orphan kids from the streets... quite the success there |
| 17:22.02 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Real poverty. A father working 16 hours days laying bricks to feed his family. A 14 year old child leaving school wash car windows at intersections. A home made of plywood and trash from the local dump. |
| 17:22.07 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, oh, and those individual rights :) such as making it illegal to use a weapon in your own house against an assailant :) |
| 17:22.10 | JoshH | oh well, we can talk about the results of these programs after obama wins :) |
| 17:22.47 | unum | JoshH: so true |
| 17:22.48 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Yes, I've been to Mexico |
| 17:23.05 | Jayce^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:23.09 | sjansen | Some people are so buried by debt, lack of education or lack of opportunity that expecting them to pull themselves up by the bootstraps only makes sense if you have another continent for them colonize. |
| 17:23.14 | JoshH | Jayce^: that is one thing that pisses me off about democrats, but it varies from state to state |
| 17:23.54 | fozzmoo | Funny, tho... outside the cities in Mexico, they live in these measly plywood-from-the-dump lean-tos... but they have the jacked-up shiny American 4x4 truck with fringe in the window parked next to it. |
| 17:24.37 | Sargun_Screen | the only thing I don't like about the current democrats is their dealings with unions |
| 17:24.44 | sjansen | fozzmoo: "I've been to Mexico" as in "I went souvenir shopping in Tijuana" or "I've eaten supper in a home where the children run around in their underwear because clothes are too expensive to wear every day"? |
| 17:25.12 | fozzmoo | Part of the problem with "poverty" in the US is that democrats keep raising the poverty line. |
| 17:25.28 | fozzmoo | As a result, a large percentage of people "in poverty" are getting by just fine. |
| 17:25.56 | Jayce^ | now they campaign on the premise of the dissappearing middle class :) |
| 17:25.58 | fozzmoo | Of course, it's easy to live on $20k/yr in Mount Pleasant, Iowa... |
| 17:26.08 | sjansen | I'll take that as "I saw some jacked-up shiny 4x4 trucks while I was souvenir shopping in Tijuana". |
| 17:26.10 | fozzmoo | But not so much in Miami, FL |
| 17:26.32 | fozzmoo | sjansen: You can assume what you want. It doesn't seem to matter. |
| 17:26.59 | sjansen | I think you'd feel differently if you actually knew and carried about families that are trying there best, but have been overwhelmed by history and the odds stacked against them. |
| 17:27.20 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Again, you're making assumptions... |
| 17:27.35 | sjansen | fozzmoo: You're not claiming any personal experience. |
| 17:27.53 | fozzmoo | and why should I care (poltiically speaking) about the poor kids in Mexico who run around in the undies? |
| 17:28.10 | fozzmoo | That's not my problem as a US taxpayer. |
| 17:28.16 | sjansen | Because we have the same thing here in the US, we just do a better job of hiding it. |
| 17:28.22 | fozzmoo | I don't want the federal govt doing anything about it. |
| 17:28.30 | JoshH | i walk around in my underwear at home all the time |
| 17:28.36 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, right, it's your care as a human and a member of a religion.. not a government issue |
| 17:28.38 | fozzmoo | JoshH: And I don't want to help you either. |
| 17:28.47 | JoshH | sometimes even naked |
| 17:28.55 | fozzmoo | gives JoshH $5 |
| 17:29.03 | Jayce^ | JoshH, so does harleypig ... |
| 17:29.07 | Jayce^ | sends sjansen the pictures |
| 17:29.49 | sjansen | fozzmoo: That's my point. As long as you don't feel that the government has a responsibility to improve the situation of its citizens, we're never going to agree. |
| 17:30.00 | fozzmoo | sjansen: You're right. |
| 17:30.43 | fozzmoo | I don't think that the govt has any responsibility, aside from guaranteeing their safety and their constitutional rights. |
| 17:30.45 | JoshH | i think it's fine and noble to expand the role of government into making sure the most basic of services are provided for all citizens, and healthcare and education should be part of that. we spend a lot of money on the military, police, fire, and all kinds of other government agencies that are arguably useless, so it couldn't hurt. |
| 17:31.07 | fozzmoo | JoshH: You just said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what I said. |
| 17:31.09 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you are entitled to the rights enumerated in our constitution.. |
| 17:31.26 | JoshH | i would like my tax dollars to actually benefit me in a tangible way |
| 17:31.48 | fozzmoo | wonders if JoshH even pays taxes. |
| 17:31.51 | sjansen | Because of course the Constitutional is a dead document that can not be re-interpreted as our situation changes. |
| 17:32.05 | fozzmoo | sjansen: heee hee. I KNEW It. |
| 17:32.13 | *** join/#utah wakigame (n=wakigame@smivpn.sorensonmedia.com) |
| 17:32.14 | Jayce^ | JoshH, so get involved with you *local* government |
| 17:32.20 | JoshH | fozzmoo: way too much. i would like to pay less taxes, and get more bang for my buck. |
| 17:32.26 | unum | but the constitution does not limit the sate goverment from providing those services |
| 17:32.26 | fozzmoo | sjansen: You probably don't even buy into that ridiculous notion that the constitution was part divine providence. |
| 17:32.38 | sjansen | We're also never going to agree so long as you worship a document instead of looking to it as a framework. |
| 17:32.45 | Jayce^ | unum, the *state* exactly... |
| 17:33.03 | unum | fozzmoo: I reject the idea that the founding fathers were agreed on what the constitution meant |
| 17:33.09 | JoshH | i don't like paying for the DEA, DHS, TSA, etc. I do like paying for the FDA, military (within reason), etc. |
| 17:33.10 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I do worship it... as a framework. |
| 17:33.12 | sjansen | I do believe the constitution was created through divine intervention, I also believe it was written with enough foresight to adapt to change. |
| 17:33.15 | unum | and that they interepeted the same way that you do |
| 17:33.25 | sjansen | Like I said, I don't worship a dead document, just like I don't worship a dead God. |
| 17:33.42 | unum | JoshH: I think you and I have similiar politicial views |
| 17:33.45 | tensai | JoshH: you're ignoring how effective the War on Drugs has been |
| 17:34.01 | unum | ya it's made dealing drugs much more lucrative |
| 17:34.01 | fozzmoo | sjansen: So... we should have new rights... like rights to medical care, housing, water, food, education, etc? |
| 17:34.10 | JoshH | i recently flew to LA, and when going through the SLC airport, there were literally at least 20 TSA agents standing around the screening area doing absolutely nothign. just chatting with eachother, flirting, walking around whistling, etc. the supervisors at the screen had updates of the U of U/wyoming game maximized for at least 20 minutes straight. |
| 17:34.16 | sjansen | Tell me where the constitution forbids it? |
| 17:34.22 | Sargun_Screen | fozzmoo: have you ever lived on minmum wage? |
| 17:34.23 | fozzmoo | and we should just add those with little or no respect for the original intent of the founding fathers. We're living in THEIR country, you know. |
| 17:34.35 | JoshH | there were probably about 5 of them actually doing work |
| 17:34.36 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, and they have to be at the federal level... |
| 17:34.55 | unum | fozzmoo: the founding fathers didn't all agree on the role of government |
| 17:35.05 | fozzmoo | Sargun_Screen: Yes. well, when I was in college, I was making $4.75/hr... which was $0.25 over min wage at the time. |
| 17:35.12 | unum | and I fully support us having removed the ablitity to have slaves |
| 17:35.17 | sjansen | NO, I'M LIVING IN _MY_ COUNTRY! I help to define it. I'm not enslaved by the decisions of dead men. |
| 17:35.23 | unum | the founding father were completely wrong about that |
| 17:35.46 | unum | how can you say they were right about slavery? |
| 17:35.46 | fozzmoo | unum: The founding fathers were largely anti-slavery. |
| 17:35.54 | unum | fozzmoo: they wrote it into the constitution |
| 17:35.58 | fozzmoo | Even Jefferson, who owned slaves. |
| 17:36.00 | sjansen | Yes, that's why most owned slaves. |
| 17:36.01 | JoshH | the founding fathers intended for the constitution to be be adaptable |
| 17:36.12 | unum | jefferson was a two faced lying weasel |
| 17:36.22 | unum | who makes franklin look honest |
| 17:36.23 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Uhm... actually no. Most did not own slaves. |
| 17:36.27 | sjansen | Jefferson was a great man. Flawed like all of us. |
| 17:36.28 | harleypig | unum: do you really know what you're talkinga bout? |
| 17:36.39 | unum | fozzmoo: how do you classify founding fathers |
| 17:36.48 | unum | harleypig: I bet I know better then most the others in here |
| 17:36.56 | fozzmoo | unum: People who signed the DoI and were involved in the Constitutional Congress. |
| 17:37.01 | unum | jeffereson often did one thing and did an other |
| 17:37.10 | unum | fozzmoo: alright then lets count.... |
| 17:37.12 | fozzmoo | unum: You're right. he was all over the place. |
| 17:37.23 | fozzmoo | unum: Consider, of the 13 colonies, more than half were in the north. |
| 17:37.40 | harleypig | unum: ok, then by what basis do you accuse jefferson of being two-faced, a lier and a weasel? |
| 17:38.04 | fozzmoo | unum: He was anti-slavery, but he had slaves. :) |
| 17:38.20 | fozzmoo | s/unum/harleypig/ |
| 17:38.35 | fozzmoo | And there's a theory that he slept with one of his slaves. *gasps* |
| 17:38.43 | fozzmoo | And he built a house that looked like a boob. |
| 17:39.01 | tensai | sold! I'll vote for that man. |
| 17:39.02 | fozzmoo | I mean, come on. Cucckoo. |
| 17:39.03 | unum | he said he hated political parties and founded one |
| 17:39.09 | fozzmoo | Yep. |
| 17:39.14 | harleypig | that's not two-faced ... he was open about his anti-slavery ... he frequently manumitted his slaves. |
| 17:39.30 | unum | mostly he just freed the ones that he fathered |
| 17:39.33 | fozzmoo | And his slaves were freed upon his death. |
| 17:39.38 | unum | washington freed all of his at death |
| 17:39.39 | sjansen | Most the time when people talk about the Founding Father's, they're not talking about all 56 delegates. They're talking about the people who had the greatest impact. |
| 17:39.41 | unum | fozzmoo: no they weren't |
| 17:39.45 | unum | that was washington |
| 17:39.47 | fozzmoo | Oh. Mayeb they weren't. |
| 17:39.54 | harleypig | unum: you're judging them by current morals ... not a good idea. |
| 17:39.56 | unum | hamilton and burr had already freed there's |
| 17:40.03 | fozzmoo | I'm a little fuzzy on Jefferson. Less so on Adams. |
| 17:40.12 | fozzmoo | Hamilton and Burr. There's a couple wackos for ya. |
| 17:40.16 | fozzmoo | Whew. |
| 17:40.24 | unum | harleypig: fozzmoo is saying we should stick to their morals because everything they put in the costitution was right |
| 17:40.30 | unum | and I was saying no we shouldn't |
| 17:40.43 | unum | I like hamilton. |
| 17:40.52 | harleypig | I don't think we should, but we shouldn't judge them by our current morals. |
| 17:41.01 | unum | harleypig: then we are agreed |
| 17:41.08 | harleypig | feh |
| 17:41.35 | harleypig | I don't think jefferson was two-faced, a lier or a weasel |
| 17:41.41 | harleypig | so I don't think we are agreed. |
| 17:41.45 | neybar | lol |
| 17:42.39 | unum | I think he was two faced to adams |
| 17:42.39 | harleypig | in what way? |
| 17:42.39 | unum | with most of the other stuff I was trying to make a point that we shouldn't live based off of their moral code |
| 17:42.47 | unum | I don't have times to go into detail, but mccullough lays it out well |
| 17:42.56 | harleypig | uh huh |
| 17:43.02 | unum | I've been told I should read american sphyinx that paints the other side |
| 17:43.05 | unum | I guess i should |
| 17:43.18 | unum | I've just built up a dislike for jefferson from the stuff I have read |
| 17:43.23 | unum | not just mccullough |
| 17:43.35 | harleypig | And I *do* think we should *base* our morality on their's ... but not exactly like it, since we've advanced since then. |
| 17:43.59 | harleypig | I mean, without their morality, we wouldn't have the constitution. |
| 17:44.00 | sjansen | Washington (slave owner) Franklin (abolitionist) Jefferson (slave owner) Adams (morally opposed to slavery) Madison (slave owner) |
| 17:44.22 | harleypig | And how much of that was social and political expediency? |
| 17:44.46 | harleypig | or compromise? |
| 17:45.25 | fozzmoo | I think we'd be extremely arrogant to think we might have better judgment without deeply understanding their motives and intent. |
| 17:45.37 | fozzmoo | The framework they put in place has served us exceptionally well until now. |
| 17:45.52 | *** part/#utah wakigame (n=wakigame@smivpn.sorensonmedia.com) |
| 17:46.05 | sjansen | unum: Jefferson made his share of enemies. What you've read may be pretty slanted. He may have been deeply flawed, but he also did a great deal of good. |
| 17:46.10 | harleypig | it still serves us well ... most of the problems we face is because government has modified or even ignored that framework. |
| 17:46.27 | unum | sjansen: he said some really good thing |
| 17:46.27 | unum | s |
| 17:46.46 | *** join/#utah eggyknap_ (n=eggyknap@ip67-88-113-150.z113-88-67.customer.algx.net) |
| 17:46.46 | unum | I'm glad we modified the part about slaves |
| 17:46.50 | unum | they were wrong about that |
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| 17:47.10 | sjansen | fozzmoo: And yet the left room for the framework to be adapted. I'm sure they would be insulted if they found out that some today insist on worshiping from the constitution instead of looking to it for inspiration on how to further advance society. |
| 17:47.18 | harleypig | unum: that's not modification of the framework |
| 17:47.40 | fozzmoo | unum: Read the founders' writings about that. |
| 17:47.44 | Jayce^ | The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. |
| 17:47.47 | unum | harleypig: how is a constitutional ammendment not a modification of the document |
| 17:47.50 | harleypig | unum: slavery was allowed as a compromise. |
| 17:47.57 | unum | so |
| 17:47.58 | Sargun_Screen | Ugh,.. |
| 17:48.02 | harleypig | unum: framework != document |
| 17:48.04 | fozzmoo | Many of them wanted to include abolitionist stuff in the Constitution. |
| 17:48.06 | unum | the entire constitution was a comprimise |
| 17:48.13 | unum | my point exactly |
| 17:48.18 | unum | they were not agreed |
| 17:48.24 | fozzmoo | But to do so would have split the country. |
| 17:48.37 | unum | so you can pick your founder and do what ever you want in the name of the "founders" |
| 17:48.45 | fozzmoo | In hindsight, they were fools to think it could have been resolved without bloodshed. |
| 17:48.57 | harleypig | unum: and yet you vilify some for being two-faced? |
| 17:48.58 | fozzmoo | unum: Actually, there were many things they were united on. |
| 17:49.18 | sjansen | So by that reasoning, segregation should still be in effect. I don't see where the constitution gives the federal government the right to end segregation. |
| 17:49.18 | fozzmoo | heads to Bountiful to have lunch with a coworker currently in Guru Labs training. |
| 17:49.24 | harleypig | unum: as you've done (antithetically) with jefferson |
| 17:49.35 | fozzmoo | You all suck. |
| 17:49.37 | fozzmoo | So do I. |
| 17:49.50 | harleypig | with varying degrees of suckage |
| 17:50.20 | Sargun_Screen | LOL |
| 17:50.36 | Sargun_Screen | erm thatd |
| 17:51.16 | Sargun_Screen | didnot dsere helaps |
| 17:51.29 | Sargun_Screen | â« |
| 17:51.38 | harleypig | Sargun_Screen: Did they change your medication? |
| 17:51.46 | Sargun_Screen | â
â |
| 17:51.55 | Sargun_Screen | Ohh |
| 17:52.20 | tensai | harleypig: methinks that was a "yes" |
| 17:52.37 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:53.01 | harleypig | or he's having a stroke ... |
| 17:54.26 | Sargun_Screen | UhM nO |
| 17:54.52 | harleypig | trying to type through a fantastic acid trip maybe? |
| 17:55.04 | Sargun_Screen | new Keyboard |
| 17:55.15 | harleypig | :D |
| 17:55.27 | harleypig | with the keys rearranged? |
| 17:57.10 | Sargun_Screen | nO handwritng recOgnition |
| 17:57.34 | harleypig | ah, thumb-typing? |
| 17:58.58 | Sargun_Screen | WOrSe |
| 18:02.00 | harleypig | nose-typing? |
| 18:02.34 | Sargun_Screen | this is better |
| 18:02.42 | Sargun_Screen | yay n810 |
| 18:07.36 | tensai | elg: http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/malebaldness.gif |
| 18:08.23 | harleypig | tensai: :D |
| 18:08.55 | elg | :) |
| 19:07.13 | levi | The problem with using an old version of buildroot is that it often points to dead mirrors. :/ |
| 19:39.14 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.145.57.253) |
| 19:44.13 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 19:47.51 | *** join/#utah lakshmi-treo (n=upirc@174.145.118.179) |
| 19:47.55 | lakshmi-treo | hey |
| 19:53.34 | bonez45 | is .NET Micro$oft's response to Java, roughly? |
| 19:55.56 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.145.57.253) |
| 19:57.55 | tensai | wonders why his speakers are emitting a loud, high pitched tone |
| 20:01.41 | harleypig | they're screaming |
| 20:04.04 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:04.35 | *** join/#utah gshipley_ (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-65d8ecd3c1089dbb) |
| 20:26.52 | harleypig | I know what would freak people out even more for halloween! |
| 20:26.56 | harleypig | I could dress like a hooker! |
| 20:27.15 | harleypig | short leather skirt ... |
| 20:27.21 | harleypig | tube top |
| 20:27.32 | harleypig | fishnet stockings |
| 20:31.03 | eggyknap | plans to build himself a cone collar. |
| 20:31.29 | Heartsbane | thanks god for a light lunch. |
| 20:38.52 | Jayce^ | harleypig, just start singing from rocky horror |
| 20:39.16 | harleypig | definitely |
| 20:42.09 | harleypig | :D Frankenfurter gone to pot ... :> |
| 20:45.21 | Jayce^ | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=4123 ooooh |
| 21:04.44 | unum | http://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.net/comics/2008-10-13-warning-in-case-of-terrorist-attack.pdf I am soooo printing one |
| 21:05.36 | mrpull | unum: what is the symbol between the biohazard and radio active symbols? |
| 21:06.26 | unum | it's a new symbol for checmical hazard |
| 21:19.18 | harleypig | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=3103 |
| 21:20.09 | Jayce^ | oh you are horrible horrible man |
| 21:20.17 | harleypig | your welcome |
| 21:20.27 | harleypig | s/your/you're/ |
| 21:21.15 | mrpull | harleypig: oh man. I think I'm glad I don't know who this Jidder guy is. |
| 22:11.20 | elg | harleypig: so what is that thin girl on the right doing in that picture? |
| 22:11.27 | elg | she's almost anorexic |
| 22:11.29 | elg | relatively speaking |
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| 22:22.38 | JoshH | how can you tell if a md5 encrypted password is salted by looking at it? |
| 22:23.28 | RyanE | I think you have to lick it. |
| 22:24.28 | sjansen | $1$salt$hash |
| 22:24.42 | sjansen | If you see it in that format, it's salted. |
| 22:24.52 | JoshH | ok, thanks sjansen |
| 22:26.23 | sjansen | Alternatively, count characters. If there's more than 32 characters, it's probably salted. |
| 22:27.57 | JoshH | these are in the salted format, good to know though |
| 22:28.10 | elg | "Hans did you at 5b. I cannot figure out anymore. In a spot here bud. |
| 22:28.10 | elg | alex" |
| 22:28.24 | RyanE | well, did you at 5b? |
| 22:28.51 | elg | the only part i grok there is that he's having trouble with problem 5b |
| 22:29.09 | RyanE | and you're 'bud'. |
| 22:29.23 | elg | this is one of the several messages i got after 10:30 pm on the due date |
| 22:29.46 | elg | in a class with a late policy of "no late work |
| 22:30.34 | JoshH | not even if your grandma died? |
| 22:31.17 | RyanE | well, if your roommate died, you get all A's for that semester. |
| 22:31.17 | tensai | JoshH: are you threatening elg's grandma? |
| 22:31.25 | Sargun | RyanE, Really?! |
| 22:31.33 | RyanE | only in the movies. |
| 22:31.36 | Sargun | amnit |
| 22:31.37 | Sargun | damnit |
| 22:31.47 | Sargun | Well, it might be some nutty BYU rule. |
| 22:32.07 | elg | no, she makes exceptions especially if you come to her before the due date |
| 22:32.19 | RyanE | *everything* might be some nutty BYU rule, but since I haven't been there since '93, I wouldn't know. |
| 22:32.25 | elg | but in general, working that close to the line (or waiting until that late to ask for help) isn't very wise |
| 22:32.28 | sjansen | Hans at 5b! |
| 22:32.39 | JoshH | RyanE: actually that sounds familiar, i think it might be true everywhere |
| 22:32.40 | sjansen | elg: You disgust me! |
| 22:32.42 | RyanE | sjansen: you sunk my battleship! |
| 22:32.47 | elg | thanks |
| 22:34.34 | sjansen | It's a campus rumor at pretty much any college. I've never heard of one where it's actually true. |
| 22:40.17 | JoshH | i guess i won't bother trying to get a terminally ill patient as my roommate next year |
| 22:41.51 | sjansen | Apparently there is some truth to the rumor that if you kill your roommate you can get free room and board for the rest of your life. |
| 22:42.17 | Sargun | I know my school will still require you to be on time at a test if you get arrested |
| 22:42.26 | harleypig | sjansen: but only if other people find out about it |
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| 23:07.20 | *** join/#utah bend3r (i=bender@failcore.com) |
| 23:07.37 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch_@nat/novell/x-035f55a2f8167489) |
| 23:07.58 | tensai | harleypig: so *that's* what I did wrong! |
| 23:10.26 | harleypig | irc'ng from your cell are you? |
| 23:16.54 | *** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@slcl007.digis.net) |
| 23:21.51 | jackman | so... |
| 23:22.09 | jackman | what's up? |
| 23:24.06 | unum | uh the sky |
| 23:25.07 | unum | Sargun: how did you find out about that rule |
| 23:44.26 | Sargun | uhm... |
| 23:44.30 | Sargun | ~whistle |
| 23:44.30 | ibot | ACTION whistles |
| 23:44.41 | Sargun | Look, its a whistling robot! |
