| 00:08.20 | tensai | here's a website that offers a free basic membership and paid upgrades. one of the upgrades is "faster page load time". |
| 00:08.42 | tensai | I wonder if in the code it says "if (!$logged_in) sleep (1);"... |
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| 02:14.17 | tensai | puppet rocks |
| 02:19.31 | levi | What are you doing with it? |
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| 02:41.45 | tensai | trying to normalize the software packages on my servers |
| 02:41.52 | tensai | they're all just slightly different |
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| 03:27.39 | tensai | ~glue elg |
| 03:35.52 | tensai | ~glue $elg is <action> pours a metric ton of Elmer's Glue on $elg |
| 03:35.53 | ibot | ACTION superglues $elg to is <action> pours a metric ton of Elmer's Glue on $elg |
| 03:36.03 | tensai | crazy bot |
| 03:42.04 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:42.09 | levi | ~glue tensai |
| 03:42.26 | tensai | ~glue levi elg |
| 03:42.26 | ibot | ACTION superglues levi to elg |
| 03:43.52 | tensai | http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html |
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| 03:47.38 | elg | lol |
| 03:48.23 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:48.29 | levi | Not what I was expecting. :) |
| 03:49.01 | levi | tensai: That votegopher site is pretty cool. |
| 03:49.21 | tensai | glad you think so. I find it extremely refreshing. |
| 03:49.35 | elg | i like it too. thanks |
| 03:49.45 | levi | I also enjoy factcheck.org and politifact.com |
| 03:49.49 | elg | now tell us if you find one for senators/congressmen/local elections |
| 03:50.42 | tensai | if I do, I will. but don't hold your breath. |
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| 03:50.54 | elg | i'll hold your breath instead |
| 03:51.07 | tensai | mfff mffm fmmff mfmmff |
| 03:51.25 | levi | elg, tensai: Either of you guys use twitter? |
| 03:51.38 | tensai | use is a strong word |
| 03:51.49 | elg | nein |
| 03:51.51 | tensai | I signed up so I could follow utos' twitter feed |
| 03:53.01 | elg | if I feel the need to tell anyone outside of this channel what I'm up to, I blog it |
| 03:53.09 | elg | unless it's a specific person |
| 03:53.11 | Supaplex | ~lart dead pppoe sessions |
| 03:53.11 | ibot | nukes dead pppoe sessions with a single large nuke |
| 03:53.15 | elg | then IM or email |
| 03:53.39 | levi | I'm trying it out, to see if it seems worthwhile for me. |
| 03:54.13 | tensai | it seems to make sense for an event like utosc |
| 04:01.06 | levi | It seems to have the potential to be a better place than here to share little bits of things that seem cool or important, but only if a bunch of people were following one another. |
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| 13:52.16 | ^Migs^ | http://wsdstaff.net/~akorkishko/americanworld.gif |
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| 15:07.20 | Supaplex | hey ^Migs^ :) |
| 15:08.35 | ^Migs^ | hey Supaplex! |
| 15:08.38 | ^Migs^ | what's going on? |
| 15:08.50 | Supaplex | breakfast nom nom nom |
| 15:09.29 | ^Migs^ | MmMMMmmmMm... |
| 15:09.32 | ^Migs^ | I had OATMEAL for breakfast |
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| 15:13.38 | Supaplex | I had freedom toast :-) |
| 15:14.37 | Supaplex | fungus: you're up early *earlier than you want to be. |
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| 15:25.00 | elg | haha, canada uninhabited |
| 15:29.42 | ^Migs^ | and africa nonexistent |
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| 15:30.43 | elg | africa? what's that? |
| 15:32.02 | Supaplex | them did amermekin laundrys long time agos |
| 15:51.55 | elg | what would you think of a keyboard layout optimized for english, C, and unix which doesn't move hjkl? |
| 15:52.10 | elg | (and by C I mean the C family of course) |
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| 16:00.34 | findlay | hello |
| 16:00.37 | goozbach | http://www.russellbryant.net/blog/2008/09/12/the-voice-of-asterisk-does-monty-python/ |
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| 16:08.10 | harleypig | is that the same lady who was doing the recordings for the london transit system? |
| 16:10.12 | levi | elg: I would think it a pointless endeavor. :) |
| 16:12.14 | harleypig | I want a distro that I can jack into |
| 16:12.20 | harleypig | grrrr |
| 16:13.43 | elg | goozbach: methinks using actual monty python would be funniers |
| 16:21.00 | harleypig | from twitter: No 1 reason not to vote republican. If Palin loses a Playboy shoot is WAY more likely. |
| 16:21.55 | high_roller | I wonder how many requests to be photographed naked palin has recieved |
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| 16:34.14 | Zelut | is RHEL 5.2 xen dom0 going to give me issues running other platforms and arch domU? |
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| 17:18.09 | high_roller | Zelut: I have run ubuntu, debian, and even solaris guests on RHEL 5.2 |
| 17:18.37 | high_roller | The problem is the installation is very manual with different distros, unless they provide a domU install kernel |
| 17:19.03 | Sargun_Screen | gentoo ftw |
| 17:19.04 | high_roller | with 5.2 you can also run a 32 bit guest on a 64 bit host, but not the other way around |
| 17:19.45 | high_roller | I've been thinking of going back to gentoo, now that they have cleaned up a bit |
| 17:20.34 | harleypig | me too ... I've even got a beater I can use ... |
| 17:20.47 | harleypig | maybe this weekend. |
| 17:24.02 | ^Migs^ | I was just at a homecoming assembly watching one of our school techs play the guitar. So much drama. There were fights going on, kids skipping school and just walking around the neighborhood, overhead one guy ask a girl if she was pregnant... |
| 17:24.16 | Zelut | high_roller: so unless they have a xen install kernel its bootstrap ehh? |
| 17:25.07 | high_roller | Zelut: yea |
| 17:25.23 | high_roller | or maybe you can grab an image off the internetz |
| 17:26.31 | harleypig | ^Migs^: what school are you at? |
| 17:28.23 | Zelut | high_roller: ubuntu has a xen kernel variant doesn't it? |
| 17:28.34 | high_roller | Zelut: I'm pretty sure it does |
| 17:28.40 | Zelut | high_roller: I'm not so much worried about running RHEL/centOS as I assume they're covered. |
| 17:29.02 | high_roller | Zelut: yea installing RHEL and any RHEL derivative is very straight forward |
| 17:29.07 | Zelut | high_roller: I'm guessing a centOS 5 dom0 + rhel and ubuntu domU should work.. |
| 17:29.10 | ^Migs^ | this was at Roy High |
| 17:29.20 | high_roller | of course there is full-virt for installing those distros w/o domU kernels |
| 17:30.14 | fozzmoo | ^Migs^: Wow. |
| 17:30.45 | Zelut | high_roller: not sure if the hardware I'm throwing this on supports full, but that is a simpler solution. |
| 17:30.45 | harleypig | ^Migs^: that sounds about like my high school homecoming ... lo' these many moons ago. |
| 17:31.14 | ^Migs^ | maybe it's just been too long, but I don't remember that much drama going on all at once |
| 17:31.47 | ^Migs^ | it's really different when you're looking at it from an employee standpoint rather than a student standpoint |
| 17:32.04 | high_roller | Zelut: check for hvm, or svm in the processor flags in /proc/cpuinfo |
| 17:32.08 | harleypig | heh ... teenagers are so much more centric |
| 17:44.07 | Sargun_Screen | harleypig: how was the drinking |
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| 17:44.25 | Sargun_Screen | wait, virtualization sounds like a high school home coming |
| 17:44.33 | harleypig | Sargun_Screen: That was a joke ... I wouldn't risk my kids seeing me that way. |
| 17:44.48 | harleypig | Though I do have a screaming headache ... but that's more stress related than anything else. |
| 17:47.15 | Sargun_Screen | wait, you wouldn't let your kids see you as a virtualization platform |
| 17:47.20 | Sargun_Screen | I'm confused |
| 17:58.42 | harleypig | Sargun_Screen: :] |
| 17:59.43 | Sargun_Screen | I understamd the 'kids' thing now |
| 17:59.54 | Sargun_Screen | not the high school thing |
| 18:00.13 | harleypig | Sargun_Screen: my comments or just the general concept? |
| 18:00.48 | Sargun_Screen | both |
| 18:01.01 | Sargun_Screen | really didn't 'get' high school |
| 18:01.41 | harleypig | I was just saying that my experiences in high seemed to match what ^Migs^ was describing, even though my hs time was quite a while ago. |
| 18:02.20 | ^Migs^ | last time I was in HS was 11 years ago |
| 18:03.14 | Sargun_Screen | that's not long ago |
| 18:03.35 | Sargun_Screen | harleypig is old.... |
| 18:03.55 | Sargun_Screen | wow migs was born in the 90s |
| 18:04.22 | Sargun_Screen | ^Migs^: you could probably look like a high school kid |
| 18:04.27 | Sargun_Screen | err 80s |
| 18:04.37 | ^Migs^ | no, born in the 70s |
| 18:04.53 | harleypig | Sargun_Screen: feh |
| 18:04.59 | ^Migs^ | sets mode +math Sargun_Screen |
| 18:05.14 | Sargun_Screen | 2008-11=1997 |
| 18:05.21 | ^Migs^ | yup |
| 18:05.28 | Sargun_Screen | 1997-18 |
| 18:05.33 | ^Migs^ | 1979 |
| 18:05.34 | Sargun_Screen | doh |
| 18:05.46 | ^Migs^ | sets mode +2nd-grade-math Sargun_Screen |
| 18:06.06 | Sargun_Screen | oh screw yhou |
| 18:06.10 | ^Migs^ | jk ;) |
| 18:06.15 | harleypig | :D |
| 18:06.26 | Sargun_Screen | how long until you turn 3 decades old? |
| 18:06.31 | ^Migs^ | next year |
| 18:06.34 | Sargun_Screen | when |
| 18:06.39 | ^Migs^ | summer |
| 18:06.39 | unum | we're the same age |
| 18:06.46 | Sargun_Screen | ah |
| 18:07.01 | Sargun_Screen | so almost 11 months away? |
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| 18:44.07 | ^Migs^ | 9 months away |
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| 19:15.01 | bonez45 | how do I test my eth0 device? |
| 19:15.59 | bonez45 | I moved my mail server from one location to another.. I have redirected the domain at registrar to the IP of new location.. and yet I can't connect.. I changed /etc/network/interfaces to auto eth0 with dhcp instead of static.... |
| 19:17.52 | bonez45 | ideas? |
| 19:21.56 | unum | you can't connect with ssh? |
| 19:25.37 | goozbach | can you ping the ip address? |
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| 19:28.53 | ibot | steals vontrapp's parking sticker |
| 19:29.46 | vontrapp | :( |
| 19:29.49 | vontrapp | that was forever ago |
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| 19:34.37 | vontrapp | anybody want to point me in a good direction for java generics? |
| 19:34.52 | vontrapp | specifically, i want to go from List<Integer> to int[] |
| 19:35.35 | vontrapp | and did i mention i hate java? |
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| 19:38.30 | levi | vontrapp: Have you tried .toArray() ? |
| 19:38.38 | vontrapp | ya, that gives me Object[] |
| 19:39.13 | vontrapp | i'm not sure if Integer[] would be sufficient (to match return type of int[]) |
| 19:39.20 | vontrapp | but if i could get that far i'll give it a try |
| 19:39.24 | levi | No, I think Integer is boxed and int is not. |
| 19:39.33 | vontrapp | right |
| 19:39.47 | vontrapp | that's why i have List<Integer> because you can't do List<int> |
| 19:39.57 | levi | Yeah. Hmm. |
| 19:40.13 | levi | There's some auto boxing/unboxing thing, but I'm not sure how it works. |
| 19:40.43 | vontrapp | it works well for shoving ints into the list and assigning elements from the list into int vars |
| 19:41.03 | vontrapp | i just don't know how to take it to the next level, to int[] |
| 19:41.39 | levi | You might try just using the Integer[] as int[]. Maybe it will auto-unbox for you? |
| 19:42.14 | vontrapp | if i can get Integer[] |
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| 19:42.21 | vontrapp | that's what i don't know how to do |
| 19:42.34 | levi | Oh, you can simply cast Object[] to Integer[], I believe. |
| 19:43.12 | vontrapp | hmm, i tried just return new Integer[1]; and that didn't work |
| 19:43.27 | levi | I'm not a Java expert by any means, though. |
| 19:44.10 | vontrapp | ok, i can cast to Integer[] but that's not sufficient |
| 19:45.22 | ^Migs^ | I haven't used Java in a long time, otherwise I'd have some input for you |
| 19:45.40 | vontrapp | return (Integer[])mylist.toArray(); |
| 19:45.49 | vontrapp | gives me Integer[] but it still says it needs int[] |
| 19:46.12 | levi | Can you cast it to int[]? |
| 19:46.17 | vontrapp | nope |
| 19:46.33 | sjansen | If you could just cast it, I'm sure Java's autoboxing would have done it for him. |
| 19:46.57 | levi | Okay, how about a for loop? :) |
| 19:47.03 | vontrapp | go go java autoboxing |
| 19:47.09 | sjansen | Really, it makes sense. Java has Integer() and int because int takes much less memory. Doesn't have all that extra class metadata. |
| 19:47.12 | vontrapp | ick, i don't want to do a for loop |
| 19:47.22 | vontrapp | and allocate an int[], and all that lame messy stuff |
| 19:47.28 | vontrapp | i'm spoiled by ruby, mind you |
| 19:47.38 | levi | Well, all that stuff would go on behind the scenes anyway. |
| 19:47.44 | sjansen | I think Java is forcing you to write a loop because it's rubbing your face in the fact this is an O(n) operation, not O(1) like autoboxing. |
| 19:48.19 | vontrapp | i'm not averse to loops because of their complexity |
| 19:48.21 | sjansen | Bad developer! Bad, bad, bad developer! |
| 19:48.27 | vontrapp | i'm averse to them because i hate reading and writing them |
| 19:48.54 | vontrapp | i don't care if somebody else does it behind the scenes for me |
| 19:49.03 | sjansen | *shrug* Be that as it may, Java does stuff like that all the time. |
| 19:49.28 | levi | That's Java for you. |
| 19:49.36 | vontrapp | ick |
| 19:50.01 | levi | You could hid it in a utility function somewhere. |
| 19:50.05 | levi | s/hid/hide/ |
| 19:50.10 | vontrapp | aight, i go to class |
| 19:50.13 | vontrapp | thx |
| 19:50.15 | *** part/#utah vontrapp (n=fuglv@weapons.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:50.17 | sjansen | vontrapp: It's a language optimization, not a bug. ;-) |
| 19:51.10 | levi | Someday, you might be able to do the conversion in a slick functional way, like these examples: http://functionaljava.org/examples |
| 19:52.13 | bonez45 | goozbach: I CAN ping the address for fyrenice.com externally, well, from another machine.. on same network.. |
| 19:53.21 | bonez45 | goozbach: sorry it took me a while to respond.. was on a few other calls |
| 19:54.29 | levi | What Java really needed to do was just lie and store an array of Integers as an array of ints. |
| 19:55.23 | sjansen | levi: Did you see the news that F# is apparently joining C# and VB.net as a first class citizen in Visual Studio? |
| 19:55.40 | levi | sjansen: Yup. I've downloaded the CTP release, in fact. |
| 19:56.04 | levi | I might use it some in my digital imaging class, which requires use of a .net language. |
| 19:57.54 | sjansen | MS scares me. I really don't want to ever work on a proprietary platform, but they do know how to treat programmers right. |
| 19:58.12 | sinuhe | sjansen: They do? How so? |
| 19:58.31 | levi | In some ways, anyway. I'm not crazy about Visual Studio, and Microsoft documentation SUCKS. |
| 19:59.19 | levi | It sucks for learning things, anyway. It's a maze of twisty hyperlinks and brief summaries of APIs that lack direction on how to make use of them. |
| 19:59.56 | sinuhe | levi: Reminds of the 6,000 page OOXML document that says everything about nothing. |
| 20:00.03 | sinuhe | Or is that nothing about everything? |
| 20:00.40 | sjansen | C# is a much better designed language that Java. LINQ is an interesting technology. Acceptance of F# shows vision. |
| 20:00.53 | levi | Microsoft Research is good stuff. |
| 20:01.06 | sjansen | sinuhe: Have you read anything more than the worst snippets held up by opponents? Some people find that documentation useful. |
| 20:01.23 | sinuhe | sjansen: I agree, though I know little of F# |
| 20:01.35 | levi | Who bothers investing in long-term research these days? |
| 20:01.41 | sjansen | MS |
| 20:01.50 | sinuhe | sjansen: I never made it through all 6,000 pages, if that is what you mean. |
| 20:02.27 | sinuhe | OK, I confess, I never made it through 10 pages, and spot checking the rest. |
| 20:02.40 | sinuhe | As for the worst snippets, that's a bit condescending. |
| 20:03.24 | sjansen | I think it is more useful to recognize that MS does many things well than ignore than F/OSS does many things poorly. |
| 20:03.28 | sinuhe | I have yet to read a positive review of it, however. |
| 20:04.11 | sjansen | MS docs may be hard to learn from, but many times with F/OSS the only thing to learn from is the source. Is that so much better? |
| 20:04.26 | sinuhe | sjansen: Are you saying think OOXML is a better standard than the ODF? If so, why? |
| 20:05.13 | sjansen | No, I'm questioning if you're really in a position to state "Reminds of the 6,000 page OOXML document that says everything about nothing." |
| 20:05.42 | sinuhe | It was a quip, not a position. Why is that important to challenge me on? |
| 20:06.35 | sjansen | Because I'm tired of listening to Linux fan boys. So long as I think the person isn't a total moron, I'm not willing to put up with mindless repetition of the party line. |
| 20:07.51 | sjansen | Call it an allergic reaction. I used to be a fan boy, and I know for certain you're smart enough to know better. |
| 20:08.01 | sinuhe | I see. I didn't realize I was being a Linux fan boy by quipping about an obfuscated, and controversial, Microsoft document that seems to be a good example of what Levi was getting at: Microsoft documentation sucks. |
| 20:09.03 | sjansen | Does it though? |
| 20:09.23 | sjansen | He said the interface is awkward, not that the docs suck. |
| 20:09.44 | levi | I think the docs are lacking in important areas. |
| 20:09.44 | sjansen | The few times I've had to use MS tech and refer to the docs, I've been able to find what I needed to know. |
| 20:09.46 | sinuhe | My experience of it does, though I suppose you are going to argue that I haven't used Windows in awhile, so can't say. In that case, the question is has Microsoft improved since then? |
| 20:09.55 | sjansen | Which is more than I can say with a lot of F/OSS tech I've used. |
| 20:10.17 | sjansen | I'd even argue that MS's interface is better than random searching with Google. |
| 20:10.37 | sinuhe | "... and Microsoft documentation SUCKS." |
| 20:10.50 | levi | sjansen: I have better luck searching MS's documentation with google than with its own interface. |
| 20:11.05 | sjansen | "It sucks for learning things, anyway. It's a maze of twisty hyperlinks and brief summaries" |
| 20:11.32 | sjansen | True. But the fact is you can add site: instead of poking through random blog posts. |
| 20:11.35 | levi | Having the kind of documentation MS gives is much preferable to having no documentation. |
| 20:12.05 | levi | But the random blog and forum posts often have precisely the stuff MS docs are lacking. |
| 20:12.28 | sjansen | sinuhe: Obviously levi should be the one to qualify levi's comments, but the impression I got was that he was stepping back from the blanket "it sucks" claim. |
| 20:13.05 | levi | Like, 'how am I supposed to actually use this API, from a holistic viewpoint?' The docs are very good at telling me how to use individual functions. |
| 20:13.10 | sinuhe | apologizes to sjansen for hating Microsoft and openly exposing such in a quip, potentially offending sjansen. |
| 20:13.27 | sjansen | MS does not suck as much as some like to pretend. It can't or we would have crushed MS by now. |
| 20:14.38 | levi | I actually enjoy the Apple programmer experience more than the MS programmer experience. |
| 20:15.26 | sjansen | It's been anything since I've done anything with Apple technologies. But the old Apple Developer Guides rocked! (As long as you knew Pascal.) |
| 20:15.39 | sjansen | s/been anything/been ages/ |
| 20:15.46 | levi | The 'Inside Macintosh' series was amazing. |
| 20:16.08 | sinuhe | sjansen: I would qualify MS does not suck with Microsoft's Windows does not suck. However, I don't use user subjugating software. If you want to call me a Linux fan boy for saying that, fine. |
| 20:16.53 | sinuhe | I'd rather dig through source code any day. At least I have it. |
| 20:17.13 | sjansen | It's one thing to say "I don't use proprietary software". I there with you. It's another to say "because I don't like proprietary software I'm going to let emotion cloud my thoughts, focus on only the bad and ignore the good". |
| 20:17.37 | sinuhe | Back at you |
| 20:19.02 | levi | I happily use and like proprietary software, and I endorse the selling of software for profit. I'd like to also get the source code when I buy it, but for the most part, there are open source alternatives when I do need the flexibility of source code access. I think proprietary software and open source can overlap and coexist just fine. |
| 20:19.15 | sinuhe | I admit emotion. I worked directly with Microsoft for MSN. I admit emotion, but I don't think my judgement of them as liars and thieves is unwarranted. I've exprienced it first hand. I've be directly ordered to overlook monatary errors in favour of Microsoft, and to lie to customers, because it is cheaper for Microsoft. |
| 20:19.37 | sinuhe | Ordered by Microsoft. |
| 20:19.56 | levi | I'll be the first in line to denounce those kinds of practices. |
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| 20:20.54 | sjansen | So focus on the business practices. Just realize, we're not going to beat MS with integrity alone. |
| 20:21.14 | goozbach | I need to stop reading "Little Brother" I'm getting all paranoid |
| 20:21.25 | levi | goozbach: They're out to get you! |
| 20:21.46 | sjansen | If for no other reason than markets encourage even the best of F/OSS companies to set aside the highest ideals for F/OSS to meet market and regulatory realities. |
| 20:22.03 | goozbach | levi: you're not helping |
| 20:22.47 | sinuhe | s/exprienced/experienced/ |
| 20:22.47 | sjansen | If we're going to eliminate proprietary software, we have to create not merely a morally superior alternative but a technically superior alternative. We can only do that if we have an unclouded vision of the opponent. |
| 20:23.18 | sinuhe | sjansen: That has merit. |
| 20:25.23 | levi | I think a more useful and practical approach is to prove the inherent value of open source such that it becomes infeasible to keep source closed. Though, I must say that I would be happy with source licenses that don't allow redistribution of the source outside of license holders. |
| 20:26.01 | sinuhe | However, an ethically superior alternative is more important, ultimately, since the problem with proprietary is not superiority, as it is an attack against freedom. Superiority is a side issue, one that distracts users to use proprietary software, I agree, but I have also had friends who realize that their freedom is often more improtant than the convenience of something easier. For businesses, of course, this is a bigger problem, |
| 20:26.02 | sinuhe | which is why we have the Open Source Initiative, to show that free software can also be technically superior. I hope I'm preaching to the choir, here. |
| 20:26.51 | levi | Here you go making the freedom argument again. I'm sure we've been over this before. |
| 20:27.47 | sjansen | sinuhe: Is it ethically superior? I use the vocabulary of the FSF because I subscribe to most of its philosophy, but you have to recognize that the ethically superiority of Free Software hasn't been proven. |
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| 20:28.07 | sinuhe | sjansen: I'm listening. |
| 20:28.24 | sjansen | There's an awful lot of ethical value in creating a system that produces results, materially improving the welfare of humanity. |
| 20:28.43 | levi | sjansen: Using 'proof' and 'ethics' in the same sentence suggests to me a fundamental misunderstanding of the philisophical process. |
| 20:29.41 | sjansen | A lot of smart people also thought that communism was ethically superior. |
| 20:30.10 | levi | One can make a consistent ethical system, but 'proof' is only in the context of the set of axioms one takes for granted. At the base of every ethical system is an appeal to something other than pure logic, and that's where proof ends. |
| 20:30.56 | sjansen | levi: As far as I'm concerned, it has been proven that communism has been proven by experience to be inferior. |
| 20:31.30 | elg | in soviet russia, communism proves you to be inferior |
| 20:31.44 | sinuhe | The ethics for free software is in the value placed on the freedom to use ythe computer you own as you wish, not as someone else wishes. It also looks at the impact on privacy, as this directly affects one's data. |
| 20:31.53 | sjansen | It may not be philosophically proven, but it's proven in the sense of "demonstrated from experience". |
| 20:32.49 | sjansen | sinuhe: Taken to its extreme, that statement could lead one to believe you think you have a right to take my work product from me without permission or compensation. |
| 20:33.00 | levi | sjansen: Well, there's incontrovertible empirical evidence that suggests that authoritarian communism leads to oppression and atrocities. |
| 20:33.04 | sinuhe | sjansen: How so? |
| 20:33.27 | sjansen | You can do "anything" including take a program I'm selling and use it without paying for it. |
| 20:34.02 | sjansen | Copyright is an attempt to reach a balance. "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." |
| 20:34.51 | sjansen | Total freedom is an illusion. Unless you're the only person in existence, conflict will arise and we have to find a balance. Ownership is tried and tested method to improve the human condition. |
| 20:34.56 | sinuhe | sjansen: Programmers are paid for their work, their time. Why should they be paid in perpetuity for work they were already paid for, especially when it impacts ownership and privacy? |
| 20:34.58 | levi | sjansen: China may yet to prove 'superior' in some measures despite its autoritarian communism. |
| 20:35.16 | levi | Er, 'may yet prove' |
| 20:35.21 | sinuhe | copyright is out of balance, especially as applied to software. |
| 20:35.45 | sjansen | China's communism has moved so far outside of the original vision of communism that it deserves its own label. |
| 20:36.02 | levi | It started out pretty far outside the original vision. |
| 20:36.03 | sjansen | sinuhe: So? That means it should be adjusted, not eliminated. |
| 20:36.11 | sinuhe | sjansen: I agree. |
| 20:37.07 | sjansen | sinuhe: The price of software is an agreement in exchange for the time of the programmer, the marketer, the distributor and others. |
| 20:37.53 | sinuhe | No argument from me so far. |
| 20:38.22 | sjansen | No, you're not. |
| 20:38.32 | sinuhe | I'm not what? |
| 20:38.34 | sjansen | Er, that is you're not on the same page. |
| 20:38.40 | unum | I wish we could get patents to a point where they made sense |
| 20:38.40 | sinuhe | Oh. |
| 20:38.43 | harleypig | muffinpuncher? |
| 20:38.43 | sinuhe | I didn't say that |
| 20:38.53 | sinuhe | I said I have no argument so far |
| 20:38.58 | unum | I think that's the biggest problem |
| 20:39.00 | sjansen | Payment "in perpetutity" is part of the social contract. Part of the reason some programmers create in the first place. |
| 20:39.04 | unum | begin muttering about senator hatch |
| 20:39.39 | sinuhe | sjansen: I agree with your statement, but do not think there should be sucha social contract, because I find it to be more a burden on society than a help. |
| 20:39.40 | sjansen | Capitalism is based on encouraging gambling. |
| 20:40.08 | harleypig | society owes me for just being blessed with my presence |
| 20:40.25 | sjansen | Don't wait for someone to pay you. Write the software first. Some people will lose their shirt, others will get stinking rich, most will land in the middle. |
| 20:41.06 | sinuhe | harleypig: :-) Thank you for that. On your note, I think I'm going to bow out of this conversation. |
| 20:41.17 | sjansen | The simple fact is, proprietary software development models encourage people to step out of the lamp light into the uncertain. Their risk helps all of us to move forward faster. |
| 20:41.49 | harleypig | woops ... didn't mean to give anyone an excuse/reason to bow out... |
| 20:41.59 | sjansen | Sure, F/OSS developers sometimes take risks too. But not with the same amount of support as proprietary developers. |
| 20:42.01 | harleypig | I haven't even been following ... I just noticed the link... |
| 20:42.03 | Tene | harleypig: what exactly do I owe you? |
| 20:42.27 | harleypig | Tene: besides all the alchohol and women I can consume? |
| 20:42.39 | Tene | consuming women? |
| 20:42.41 | sjansen | harleypig: You're a cannibal too? |
| 20:42.50 | sjansen | On top of everything else? |
| 20:43.16 | harleypig | well, 'use up' might be a better phrase ... |
| 20:43.49 | sinuhe | Plus, my laptop battery is dying, and I have other things to do. |
| 20:44.05 | harleypig | consumption |
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| 21:00.04 | *** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@160.79.186.34) |
| 21:07.23 | bonez45 | you consume women? |
| 21:07.25 | bonez45 | dang..... |
| 21:07.39 | bonez45 | and here I thought that They consumed... our money....:) |
| 21:10.12 | harleypig | they do ... but if you're willing to be as ruthless as them they'll let you use them up |
| 21:10.24 | harleypig | hmmm ... I'm gonna drop this line before I get too bitter. |
| 21:10.37 | bonez45 | it's ok... |
| 21:13.45 | unum | any samba experts here? |
| 21:17.00 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.145.58.209) |
| 21:17.16 | sjansen | unum: Give us a try. The worst we could do is ignore you. |
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| 21:18.20 | sjansen | Well, that or swear a united blood oath against you, driving you from the channel, force you out of your job, and convince your family to renounce you... |
| 21:18.37 | sjansen | But we haven't done that for _ages_. |
| 21:18.52 | sjansen | I mean it's been _at least_ three days now since the last time... |
| 21:20.59 | unum | I add four new users same as usual |
| 21:21.19 | goozbach | sjansen: THREE? wasn't there a guy named dooder234 we did that to this morning? |
| 21:21.28 | unum | but when I try to log in as any of them it tells me no domain controller can be found |
| 21:21.38 | unum | still works fine for other users |
| 21:21.44 | unum | I can't find anything in the samba logs |
| 21:21.44 | sjansen | goozbach: Why didn't you page me?! You're supposed to page me! |
| 21:22.34 | unum | "A domain controller could not be found for the specified domain" |
| 21:23.33 | sjansen | What are you using for "[global] security = "? |
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| 21:23.38 | goozbach | sjansen: your invoke sjansen script failed |
| 21:26.27 | harleypig | leather? |
| 21:34.06 | unum | sjansen: nothing |
| 21:34.12 | unum | it's not there |
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| 21:37.54 | sjansen | Looks like the default is security=user then. |
| 21:38.43 | sjansen | IIRC, that means you have to create a Linux account and a samba account. Did you do both? |
| 21:38.48 | unum | yes |
| 21:39.22 | Tene | smbpasswd -a? |
| 21:39.31 | unum | yep |
| 21:39.51 | unum | and the accounts are in the smbpasswd file |
| 21:40.00 | unum | they are also in the password and group file |
| 21:42.38 | sjansen | I assume you're testing using Windows software. Have you tried using smbclient on Linux? |
| 21:45.30 | unum | I haven't used that in for ever.... |
| 21:47.13 | sjansen | Maybe it'll have a more useful error message. |
| 21:48.17 | unum | hmmm, it worked |
| 21:49.28 | sjansen | Perhaps it's a caching issue. |
| 21:49.36 | sjansen | Reboot every machine on the network! ;-) |
| 21:50.07 | unum | I've wondered about that..... |
| 21:57.47 | unum | now I can't get remote access to the windows client..... |
| 22:03.49 | fungus | Domain controller location is done first by broadcast/computer browser service, next by wins. Are the clients on the same subnet as the DC? |
| 22:04.16 | unum | yes. and they connect fine for every other user |
| 22:04.23 | unum | except the four new ones |
| 22:06.20 | fungus | Is your problem with windows logon, or mapping to a share (DC or standalone server) |
| 22:06.43 | unum | windows logon |
| 22:06.50 | unum | I think. |
| 22:06.58 | unum | both take place and at the same time. |
| 22:07.15 | unum | so I am not certain if I'm getting the error for on or the other |
| 22:29.57 | sjansen | Perhaps all of the users are actually broken, but Windows has cached the credentials of the old users. |
| 22:30.08 | sjansen | Replace every cable in the network! ;-) |
| 22:30.57 | unum | somethings wrong and we can no longer correctly connect to vnc, and the users we were working with left to cache their checks.... |
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| 22:44.37 | unum | darn it's still not working after a reboot |
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