| 00:04.27 | nick125 | We all know Sargun's favorite...JAVA! |
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| 00:37.12 | Sargun_screen | hi |
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| 01:04.46 | Sargun_screen | Any ideas what this is: http://www.editgrid.com/user/jmumford/TBH-Fed |
| 01:09.04 | Sargun_screen | Ah, he's a redhat reseller. |
| 01:16.43 | nick125 | Hmm..anyone here know of a guide on locking down win2k boxes? |
| 01:17.00 | Supaplex | yeah, www.goodbye-windows.com ? ;) |
| 01:17.50 | nick125 | doesn't have a choice, otherwise he would do that |
| 01:25.16 | Sargun_screen | Uhm, whatabout unplug them? |
| 01:25.29 | Sargun_screen | take out the hard drive and bury it in the dirt. |
| 01:25.42 | nick125 | I kind of need them to still work :p |
| 01:25.43 | Sargun_screen | Take out the processor and throw it? |
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| 01:33.57 | Tene | nick125: locking down against what? |
| 01:34.00 | Tene | network? local users? |
| 01:34.06 | nick125 | Tene: local users |
| 01:34.11 | Tene | hostile local users? stupid local users? IE? |
| 01:34.22 | nick125 | all of the aboe |
| 01:34.24 | nick125 | *above |
| 01:34.59 | Tene | I've got a friend who admins a public school. He uses a commercial product called "Deep Freeze", I think. |
| 01:35.02 | Tene | He really likes it. |
| 01:35.12 | nick125 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:35.13 | nick125 | er |
| 01:35.16 | Tene | That's all the information I have on that subject. |
| 01:35.39 | nick125 | I just need something to lock down 25 machines |
| 01:55.16 | Sargun_screen | nick125: three-words: Read Only Media |
| 01:55.24 | nick125 | Sargun_screen: haha |
| 01:55.27 | nick125 | I thought of it |
| 01:55.40 | nick125 | but I don't have $$ for hardware, and I don't really want to use CDs |
| 01:55.59 | Sargun_screen | Uhm, what are the specs on the machines? |
| 01:56.35 | nick125 | old IBM thinkpads...i-series |
| 01:56.48 | Sargun_screen | i Series? |
| 01:56.54 | Sargun_screen | What CPU, how much ram? |
| 01:57.19 | Sargun_screen | How old? |
| 01:57.21 | Sargun_screen | Clocks |
| 01:57.26 | Sargun_screen | Speektoomee |
| 01:58.05 | nick125 | 600mhz Celery, 128MB of RAM |
| 01:58.59 | Sargun_screen | qemu + OE? |
| 02:00.25 | Sargun_screen | nick125: What do you think? |
| 02:02.21 | Sargun_screen | poke |
| 02:02.25 | nick125 | hmm |
| 02:04.25 | Sargun_screen | Qemu + KQEMU + OE (?) + qcow2 = Win! |
| 02:05.31 | Sargun_screen | OE is a PITA to build |
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| 02:07.22 | tensai | stuffs elg with pepper jack cheese, dips him in batter and deep fries him |
| 02:07.33 | elg | mmm, relleno |
| 02:07.38 | elg | did you make some recently? |
| 02:07.41 | elg | it's chile season you know |
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| 02:08.54 | tensai | these peppers I grew would be perfect. they're a mild yellow banana. they're just now growing very well. |
| 02:09.01 | tensai | I've only gotten two little buggers |
| 02:09.20 | Sargun_screen | It sounds difficult |
| 02:09.24 | Sargun_screen | but there is this awesome mexico place |
| 02:09.31 | Sargun_screen | that sells great relleno burritos |
| 02:10.02 | elg | you're right, that is difficult |
| 02:10.27 | Sargun_screen | elg: I don't have a green thumb |
| 02:10.31 | Sargun_screen | or a knack for cooking |
| 02:11.06 | elg | -metar |
| 02:11.07 | brac | KLRU 190152Z AUTO 22004KT 10SM CLR 28/16 A2999 RMK AO2 |
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| 03:03.21 | gabegundy | Can anyone here recommend a PCI Express Mini wireless card with rock solid support under Ubuntu 8.04? |
| 03:03.42 | gabegundy | Not using restricted drivers. |
| 03:13.15 | tristanbob | Ogden City could use some good Linux help..... http://www.ogdencity.com |
| 03:19.49 | undertakingyou | tristanbob: is it good linux help, or good web developement help. |
| 03:20.00 | undertakingyou | Like it says, they got the linux stuff working. |
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| 04:02.32 | tristanbob | undertakingyou, correct |
| 04:02.52 | tristanbob | can you tell what distro from that page? |
| 04:25.17 | undertakingyou | tristanbob: not that I know of. It only says "It Works!" |
| 04:26.46 | tristanbob | undertakingyou, I know that is what Ubuntu includes |
| 04:26.53 | tristanbob | some distros used to have a branded default page |
| 04:27.07 | undertakingyou | Right, I have seen that with a CentOS server. |
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| 05:17.33 | encryptz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Block_(album) |
| 05:45.35 | tensai | I see your wikipedia link, and raise you one |
| 05:45.36 | tensai | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_kids_on_the_block |
| 05:47.41 | encryptz | heh |
| 05:48.06 | tensai | I should have followed your link first. I didn't realize they were related until just now. :) |
| 05:48.23 | encryptz | uh huh |
| 05:48.42 | encryptz | i fold. too rich for my blood. you win |
| 05:49.16 | tensai | I do have their first album in a box somewhere. I bought it for a buck in a bargain bin, in Japan of all places. |
| 05:49.44 | Supaplex | but was it really a bargain? |
| 05:50.59 | tensai | there, I just made an edit. now I'm a total dweeb. |
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| 13:04.39 | Sargun_screen | morning |
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| 13:26.07 | ^Migs^ | howdy |
| 13:26.22 | ^Migs^ | awwww YEAH! Just ran some stats, and my blog is the MOST visited in the school district. And Google isn't even indexing it for some reason. |
| 13:53.35 | Sargun_screen | uhm |
| 13:53.36 | Sargun_screen | haha |
| 13:54.00 | Sargun_screen | ^Migs^: Link? |
| 13:54.22 | ^Migs^ | http://blog.weber.k12.ut.us/jreeve |
| 13:54.29 | ^Migs^ | cool, now I'll get even more visitors |
| 13:54.50 | ^Migs^ | I don't even have a link to it on our district site, except when it shows up in "Latest Blog Posts." Mostly it's people from Twitter and other random places. |
| 13:55.04 | ^Migs^ | RSS feeds are a huge source of unique visitors, too |
| 13:55.16 | ^Migs^ | they may not actually be "visiting" it per se |
| 13:55.16 | Sargun_screen | Nice. |
| 13:55.28 | ^Migs^ | maybe I shouldn't count those......naaah |
| 13:55.41 | Sargun_screen | Why don't you buy the domain migsdomain.com? |
| 13:55.48 | Sargun_screen | or do you own your own domain name? |
| 13:55.49 | ^Migs^ | because I hate the name "Migs" |
| 13:55.56 | ^Migs^ | www.justinreeve.com redirects to http://blog.weber.k12.ut.us/jreeve |
| 13:57.30 | Sargun_screen | 302 redirect, or HTTP refresh? |
| 13:57.55 | ^Migs^ | refresh |
| 13:58.28 | ^Migs^ | <?php location ("http://blog.weber.k12.ut.us/jreeve"); ?> |
| 13:58.42 | Sargun_screen | Uhm, you should use a 302 redirect if you can |
| 13:58.54 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I guess that would be better for SEO |
| 13:59.13 | ^Migs^ | never really thought about it much |
| 13:59.16 | Sargun_screen | http://www.justinreeve.com/ |
| 13:59.54 | ^Migs^ | noob question: how do I even set that up? |
| 13:59.59 | ^Migs^ | you'd think I'd know this stuff by now |
| 14:00.19 | ^Migs^ | isn't 302 temporary though? |
| 14:00.28 | Sargun_screen | uhm |
| 14:00.37 | Sargun_screen | Who cares, that's what google wants? |
| 14:01.25 | Sargun_screen | No, you're issuing < HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily |
| 14:01.47 | ^Migs^ | I'm not planning on changing it anytime soon, though |
| 14:02.02 | Sargun_screen | you're 40302'ing. |
| 14:02.17 | ^Migs^ | I'll give it a shot, and see what happens |
| 14:02.23 | Sargun_screen | ^Migs^: what helps a lot is putting http://justinreeve.com into a signature |
| 14:02.28 | Sargun_screen | and it'll link |
| 14:02.35 | ^Migs^ | I put blog.weber.k12.ut.us/jreeve everywhere |
| 14:02.44 | ^Migs^ | still no indexing |
| 14:03.02 | ^Migs^ | I haven't really checked into it, that much. I did make sure the WordPress settings are correct and allow it. |
| 14:03.09 | ^Migs^ | might be something else on the server |
| 14:04.27 | ^Migs^ | Yahoo! has me though |
| 14:08.26 | ^Migs^ | I keep forgetting, in the .htaccess how do I tell it to only Redirect the top level, but not anything below that? |
| 14:09.24 | ^Migs^ | I can't find my cheat sheets :( |
| 14:10.03 | Sargun_screen | hehe. |
| 14:10.23 | Sargun_screen | http://blog.weber.k12.ut.us/robots.txt |
| 14:10.26 | Sargun_screen | you should fix that. |
| 14:10.34 | ^Migs^ | oh hahaha |
| 14:11.12 | ^Migs^ | I kind of noticed something fishy was going on there yesterday when I was running stats |
| 14:11.21 | Sargun_screen | Do you have a sitemap? |
| 14:11.28 | ^Migs^ | for the blogs? No |
| 14:11.40 | Sargun_screen | did you write the blogging software yourself? |
| 14:11.45 | ^Migs^ | no, it's WordPress MU |
| 14:11.50 | Sargun_screen | ah |
| 14:12.03 | Sargun_screen | Use Google Webmaster tools |
| 14:12.07 | ^Migs^ | I'm writing a better blog post search engine now, and am going to post some stats and stuff |
| 14:12.13 | Sargun_screen | and setup sitemaps for your blogs. |
| 14:12.15 | ^Migs^ | okay, I'll bring that up |
| 14:12.24 | Sargun_screen | with? |
| 14:12.24 | ^Migs^ | er, load that up |
| 14:12.44 | ^Migs^ | I do like the webmaster tools. I haven't used them as much as I ought to. |
| 14:12.46 | Sargun_screen | https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/dashboard?pli=1 |
| 14:17.01 | ^Migs^ | gah, can't even verify. WPMU's .htaccess screws things up too much. I'll have to work on it. |
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| 14:18.16 | ^Migs^ | I'm just going to make a sitemap. That was a good suggestion. |
| 14:18.29 | ^Migs^ | man, I need you here working with me. |
| 14:20.23 | Sargun_screen | I've done my own SEO to know the drill. |
| 14:22.47 | Sargun_screen | Ars is broken: http://www.arsgeek.com/2008/08/19/adam-savage-is-a-geeky-pirate/ |
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| 14:35.49 | elg | -chat |
| 14:35.51 | brac | hdcp isn't as nice as online genealogy goes |
| 14:40.27 | jsmith | -chat Tuesday is |
| 14:40.27 | brac | Tuesday is the dvi side to side tracked |
| 14:40.40 | jsmith | No wonder I'm side-tracked! |
| 14:52.02 | elg | -chat it is |
| 14:52.03 | brac | it is too |
| 14:52.06 | elg | -chat i am |
| 14:52.07 | brac | i am from my camcorder that I have reset some phones out with my last release was april 26, 2007 |
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| 15:00.33 | Sargun_screen | I wonder if Linux is itar compliant |
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| 15:11.22 | elg | does it say something about me and/or microsoft that my favorite windows is still w2kpro, which is still installed on my (vmware) windows box |
| 15:11.23 | elg | ? |
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| 15:51.31 | harleypig | California needs that earthquake ... desperately. |
| 15:51.45 | elg | sweet, someone was trying to discard a lectern here |
| 15:51.49 | elg | i snagged it for my office |
| 15:52.06 | elg | it needs just a hair of attention and it'll be a great standing laptop stand |
| 15:52.17 | elg | i've always wanted to try working while standing |
| 15:52.44 | fozzmoo | Okay... I have a question. |
| 15:52.53 | fozzmoo | I'm looking at fancy pantsy switches.... |
| 15:53.03 | fozzmoo | and I have no idea why I'd want a Layer 3 switch. |
| 15:53.44 | fozzmoo | What do you use a layer 3 switch for, as opposed to a layer 2? |
| 15:54.46 | Sargun | If you need to ask, you don't need it. |
| 15:55.12 | Sargun | A layer 3 switch enables you to do layer 3 operators (IP based operations) |
| 15:57.07 | Sargun | harleypig, California is too good for an earthquake. |
| 15:57.15 | Sargun | fozzmoo, What kind of switch are you looking for? |
| 15:57.50 | elg | i have a hard time saying "Layer 3 Switch" with a straight face |
| 15:58.04 | elg | to me "layer 3 switch" is just a fancy way of saying "weak router" |
| 15:58.10 | fozzmoo | elg: That's what i was wondering. |
| 15:58.16 | Sargun | elg, Not exactly.. |
| 15:58.21 | fozzmoo | Does a L3 switch let you do load balancing? |
| 15:58.26 | Sargun | In what context. |
| 15:58.57 | Sargun | elg, Routers are designed purely to route traffic, their CAMs suck at a layer 2 level. |
| 15:59.22 | Sargun | Whereas L3 switches have big CAMs designed for Layer 2, and small TCAMs for layer 3 stuff |
| 15:59.32 | fozzmoo | CAMs? |
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| 15:59.56 | harleypig | Sargun: too good? it needs to be dumped into the ocean and wiped clean from the face of the earth |
| 16:00.00 | elg | ~reboot ajorg |
| 16:00.01 | ibot | ACTION pushes ajorg's reset button |
| 16:00.09 | fozzmoo | high-fives harleypig |
| 16:00.22 | Sargun | harleypig, what's wrong with California? |
| 16:00.44 | elg | nothing, it's all the people in it |
| 16:00.50 | Sargun | fozzmoo, A CAM is a device in a switch used to look up an item in a reduced amount of cycles |
| 16:01.02 | Sargun | its a hardware "system" for O(1) lookups. |
| 16:01.16 | Sargun | or an O(1) associative array. |
| 16:01.27 | elg | so i think what he's asking is what does Layer 3 give him in an L3 switch? |
| 16:01.54 | elg | as opposed to a switch and a router |
| 16:02.03 | Sargun | You mean vs. a standard switch |
| 16:02.03 | fozzmoo | Right. |
| 16:02.06 | harleypig | Sargun: http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/Fallujah04/DOM_Appeal_06AUG08_142.htm |
| 16:02.07 | fozzmoo | Right again. |
| 16:02.08 | brac | [DOM_Appeal_06AUG08_142] |
| 16:02.24 | Sargun | fozzmoo, What exactly are you doing with this switch? |
| 16:02.31 | elg | switching, probably |
| 16:02.33 | peno | fozzmoo: it really depends on what you *need* the switch to do. |
| 16:02.47 | fozzmoo | Well, my boss is probably going to want to buy the Dell 6348 switch (layer 3) |
| 16:02.57 | fozzmoo | and I think all we need is the 5448 (layer 2) |
| 16:03.05 | Sargun | harleypig, what exactly does that have to do with California? |
| 16:03.09 | elg | i can't speak for or against layer 3, but I can say managed switches are teh awesome |
| 16:03.16 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Are you looking at just doing dumb application serving? |
| 16:03.20 | fozzmoo | Right. It'll be managed either way. |
| 16:03.23 | Sargun | elg, I love my 3750Es |
| 16:03.44 | harleypig | Sargun: California is pushing it, he's being charged in California ... and California is just in need of a serious cleansing. |
| 16:03.58 | peno | 3750(E)'s are very very nice. |
| 16:04.01 | Sargun | At least we don't have as many religious nutsos |
| 16:04.14 | Sargun | My personal desk switch (at work) is a 2960G |
| 16:04.22 | harleypig | ? You ever been in southern utah? |
| 16:04.28 | Sargun | No. |
| 16:04.40 | Sargun | I'm saying in relation to Texas, and Louisiana |
| 16:04.47 | peno | heh. I have one of those, and a 3750G PoE.. and a few others. |
| 16:04.49 | harleypig | We have more than our fair share of religous nut jobs. |
| 16:04.54 | Sargun | Yes... |
| 16:05.08 | Jayce^ | Sargun, you have more, jsut different religions (athiesm, environmentalism, personalism) :) |
| 16:05.22 | harleypig | humanists ... feh |
| 16:05.49 | Sargun | Do ya'll support the war in I-rack? |
| 16:05.53 | Sargun | ;-P |
| 16:05.54 | goozbach | fozzmoo: what kind of traffic? |
| 16:05.58 | elg | and don't forget berkeley :) |
| 16:06.03 | goozbach | http? |
| 16:06.05 | Sargun | elg, Berkeley kicks ass. |
| 16:06.07 | goozbach | more than http? |
| 16:06.13 | fozzmoo | These switches will go into our data center... replacing a hodgepodge of "smart" switches, managed switches, and dumb switches. |
| 16:06.15 | elg | berkeley is in a class of its own when it comes to * nutjobs |
| 16:06.15 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Answer the question or we can't help you. |
| 16:06.22 | fozzmoo | (sorry- phone call) |
| 16:06.25 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Ok. |
| 16:06.32 | elg | i don't hate berkeley, i'm more just amused by it |
| 16:06.32 | goozbach | hmm |
| 16:06.35 | fozzmoo | There is a lot of http traffic. |
| 16:06.37 | Sargun | fozzmoo, I'd just say go with L2. You don't seem like you need layer 3. |
| 16:06.41 | goozbach | I like the cisco 4590s |
| 16:06.43 | Sargun | You're not doing anything interesting |
| 16:06.55 | elg | i think it'd be cool to live in the bay area personally. if i could afford it and handle the traffic |
| 16:06.56 | goozbach | they are REALLY pricy though |
| 16:07.03 | Sargun | goozbach, too big. |
| 16:07.13 | Sargun | elg, traffic isn't that bad once you get used to it. |
| 16:07.31 | harleypig | Sargun: I support the soldiers who do their duty. |
| 16:07.32 | elg | that's like saying quadripelegism isn't that bad once you get used to it |
| 16:07.39 | Sargun | Hahaha |
| 16:07.45 | Sargun | elg, No, I mean, once you find workaronds. |
| 16:07.47 | Sargun | arounds |
| 16:07.57 | maquis | harleypig: and they are grateful for that... |
| 16:07.57 | Sargun | Most people here don't come in until 10 for that reason. |
| 16:08.01 | Sargun | Or the telecommute. |
| 16:08.02 | elg | public transportation, waking up early |
| 16:08.05 | maquis | (i didn't see the rest of the conversation, but figured i'd add that in |
| 16:08.06 | maquis | ) |
| 16:08.20 | Sargun | elg, you dislike public transportation? |
| 16:08.25 | elg | i think i could manage. but if i had to sit behind the wheel in stop-go for 2 hours a day i would be out of there faster than you can say sourdough jack |
| 16:08.36 | elg | i like public transportation. that's one of the promising workarounds |
| 16:08.53 | Sargun | elg, It's not _that_ bad. |
| 16:09.05 | Sargun | If you live in the city that you work in it is completely fine. |
| 16:09.07 | elg | well that depends on where you live doesn't it? |
| 16:09.10 | elg | right |
| 16:09.20 | Sargun | elg, Why live in the suburbs? |
| 16:09.32 | elg | which brings us back to affordability. :) but if I lived there it'd probably be a lucrative job so... |
| 16:09.43 | Sargun | Getting a job here is also much easier. |
| 16:10.00 | Sargun | (in technology) |
| 16:10.03 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Except all the good employers are abandoning the state! |
| 16:10.10 | maquis | Sargun: apparently you don't live in seattle |
| 16:10.10 | Sargun | True.... |
| 16:10.24 | elg | i'd love seattle but my wife would shrivel up and die |
| 16:10.30 | elg | she doesn't like clouds and rain |
| 16:10.30 | Sargun | maquis, Seattle is equally nice, but too much rain. |
| 16:10.45 | maquis | it's been hot all summer |
| 16:10.54 | elg | hot? |
| 16:11.08 | Sargun | We have enough infrastructure that can't be moved (DCs, and fiber endpoints) |
| 16:11.17 | Sargun | That telecom is here, and staying. |
| 16:11.55 | Sargun | harleypig, So, other than some completely random trial of some completely random marine, what else is wrong with California? |
| 16:12.19 | elg | the water's too cold |
| 16:12.27 | elg | ;-) |
| 16:12.31 | maquis | elg: hot for people who don't have AC, at least |
| 16:12.44 | elg | so like 80s and 90s? |
| 16:12.53 | Sargun | ?Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet,? was one of the rules the hugely respected general gave his Marines to live by. |
| 16:12.53 | Sargun | The young Marines in Third Platoon were ecstatic. The men who were there say it was high fives and oorahs all around. All the peacetime BS, the endless lectures and repetitious training was over. So was the grinding monotony of being warriors without a war. Two months later Third Platoon invaded Iraq. |
| 16:13.04 | Sargun | That sounds like you'd really want to hang out with these guys. |
| 16:14.07 | elg | does that guy on the men's gymnastics team remind anyone of an undersized (vertically) military cheerleader? |
| 16:15.33 | Sargun | harleypig, So, who backs this site, where does its credibility come from? |
| 16:17.09 | Sargun | harleypig, Let me guess, you also think Bush is an awesome president, and DHS is the best thing since sliced bread. |
| 16:17.16 | levi | Sargun: California is full of liberals, and liberals are out to destroy our country. |
| 16:17.37 | Sargun | What's wrong with liberalism? |
| 16:17.57 | levi | Sargun: The conservatives don't like it. |
| 16:18.01 | Sargun | Haha |
| 16:18.10 | harleypig | Sargun: ?! I think Bush is the reason this man is on trial! |
| 16:18.12 | levi | What's wrong with conservatism? The liberals don't like it. |
| 16:18.20 | Sargun | Ok, I'm hoping you can come up with a better argument than that. |
| 16:18.21 | harleypig | I think DHS is the next SS |
| 16:18.38 | Sargun | SS as in the german SS, or SS as in the Secret Service? |
| 16:19.07 | levi | I think people who paint all Marines with the 'bloodthisrty killers' brush are pretty slimy, but I hardly think they're representative of the typical Californian. |
| 16:19.10 | harleypig | german |
| 16:19.16 | Sargun | (I hope you mean the German SS) |
| 16:19.32 | harleypig | Sargun: I was a marine. |
| 16:19.38 | harleypig | My brother is a marine. |
| 16:19.43 | harleypig | My uncle was a marine. |
| 16:19.57 | Sargun | levi, Most Californians don't think marines are some sort of wacko human killing machines |
| 16:20.03 | harleypig | A number of ancestors were marines, and even more were in other branches. |
| 16:20.05 | fozzmoo | levi: No, just the avg Berkeley resident. :) |
| 16:20.19 | Sargun | levi, They are just obeying orders from command, and out to make a living. |
| 16:20.23 | maquis | my husband's in the army |
| 16:20.34 | maquis | army reserve, actually |
| 16:20.38 | maquis | thankfully |
| 16:20.46 | levi | Sargun: Did it sound like I agreed with that sentiment? Because I don't, you don't need to convince me that it's wrong. |
| 16:20.59 | maquis | i have a lot of respect for the spouses of people in full-time military |
| 16:21.08 | harleypig | Sargun: Not entirely true. A soldier must weigh the order's he's given against a number of different legal structures, which can change from operation to operation. |
| 16:21.11 | fozzmoo | maquis: But you're... cool. |
| 16:21.16 | levi | fozzmoo: I'm not so sure about that. Certainly there are some vocal nutjobs in Berkeley, though. |
| 16:21.16 | harleypig | It's called the Rules Of Engagement. |
| 16:21.17 | Sargun | There is the small representation in the military who fall under that blood thirsty category.... |
| 16:21.27 | fozzmoo | levi: Which affects the average. :) |
| 16:21.33 | maquis | i respect the military, but i also respect their families |
| 16:21.36 | harleypig | Sargun: There are non-military who are just as bloodthirsty. |
| 16:21.48 | fozzmoo | Civilian Vampires. |
| 16:21.53 | harleypig | Did you know there are surgeons who enjoy the act of cutting into a human body? |
| 16:21.55 | Sargun | harleypig, True. |
| 16:22.04 | Sargun | Ok, you're comparing apples and oranges. |
| 16:22.05 | fozzmoo | harleypig: gotta love your job. |
| 16:22.17 | harleypig | In what way? |
| 16:22.23 | harleypig | fozzmoo: which job is that? |
| 16:22.26 | maquis | Sargun: not everyone in the military is bloodthirsty |
| 16:22.28 | Sargun | Because a Surgeons job is to cut open a human. |
| 16:22.37 | Sargun | maquis, I never said they were "small representation: |
| 16:22.41 | fozzmoo | harleypig: If you're a surgeon... you want to be happy with what you do, right? |
| 16:22.42 | maquis | some of them want to make something of themselves |
| 16:23.10 | Sargun | harleypig, A Marines job is to protect, isn't it? |
| 16:23.36 | harleypig | No ... |
| 16:23.43 | fozzmoo | So, back to California.... |
| 16:23.53 | fozzmoo | sure, lots of cool things about California. |
| 16:23.58 | fozzmoo | A lot of places are better than others. |
| 16:24.00 | levi | fozzmoo: 'average' in it's mathematical definition doesn't make a lot of sense in this context. It probably makes more sense to speak of the beliefs of the middle two quartiles or something when considering the 'average' person's beliefs, rather than trying to merge in the nutjobs with them. |
| 16:24.06 | goozbach | that's where disney is, no? |
| 16:24.07 | Sargun | harleypig, These are the same marines, right: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/26/world/middleeast/26haditha.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/S/Schmitt,%20Eric |
| 16:24.08 | harleypig | A marines job is to do whatever is asked of him as efficiently and quickly as possible. |
| 16:24.09 | fozzmoo | Northern California is probably worth salvaging. :) |
| 16:24.23 | brac | [Military to Report Marines Killed Iraqi Civilians - New York Times] |
| 16:24.33 | Sargun | I agree, Socal should be dumped. We can let it merge with the religious nutjobs. |
| 16:24.43 | levi | Southern California is a great place. I served my mission in San Diego, and I loved it there. |
| 16:24.53 | fozzmoo | Eveyrthing from San Fran, south, can burn, IMO. :) |
| 16:24.53 | Sargun | harleypig, As weighed against a number of different legal structures right? |
| 16:25.06 | Sargun | levi, Did you ever visit OC? |
| 16:25.19 | fozzmoo | Okay... everything between SF and SD. :) |
| 16:25.22 | fozzmoo | (including SF) |
| 16:25.29 | fozzmoo | I like San Diego too. |
| 16:25.32 | goozbach | san jose?! |
| 16:25.32 | levi | I love San Francisco, too. |
| 16:25.37 | harleypig | Sargun: the same people. and yes, they have to follow the roe ... which is *supposed* to keep them out of jams like this one. |
| 16:25.43 | fozzmoo | I like San Fran too... but it's messed up, man. |
| 16:25.44 | goozbach | and the food in SF is awesome |
| 16:25.52 | levi | fozzmoo: How's it messed up? |
| 16:26.01 | fozzmoo | levi: Two words: Gavin Newsome. :) |
| 16:26.06 | goozbach | (lots of gays) |
| 16:26.09 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:26.20 | goozbach | if we're being incendarary |
| 16:26.25 | harleypig | As far as I can tell from reading both sides of the story, these marines *did* follow the roe of the day. |
| 16:26.34 | harleypig | goozbach: too late ... conflagration is already happening. |
| 16:26.48 | goozbach | harleypig: just fanning the flames then |
| 16:26.53 | goozbach | and the flamers too! |
| 16:26.55 | harleypig | But what boils my ass is that it's a *civilian* court. |
| 16:26.57 | harleypig | heh |
| 16:27.11 | levi | So what if there are a lot of gay people there? They make pretty good neighbors, with a few flagrant exceptions. |
| 16:27.17 | harleypig | He's being charged with *knowingly using and carrying a firearm"! |
| 16:27.28 | levi | I lived in a pretty gay-heavy area in San Diego on my mission. |
| 16:27.41 | fozzmoo | California is a perfect example, from a public policy perspective, of how not to do things. |
| 16:27.41 | harleypig | As a soldier in a battle! |
| 16:27.55 | harleypig | How fucked up is that?! |
| 16:28.02 | harleypig | sorry ... |
| 16:28.06 | harleypig | I'm a little peeved. |
| 16:28.09 | Tene | But LEVI! What if they FIND YOU ATTRACTIVE?! |
| 16:28.19 | harleypig | :D |
| 16:28.21 | levi | fozzmoo: In your opinion, anyway. They seem to be carrying on fairly well, aside from screwups like Enron, which certainly weren't due to liberal policy. |
| 16:28.32 | levi | Tene: Good for them. |
| 16:28.41 | fozzmoo | levi: Yeah, what with cities declaring bankruptcy and all. |
| 16:29.18 | Tene | I'm sad that fedora doesn't package figlet. :( |
| 16:29.40 | Sargun | If a gay person finds me attractive its a complement. |
| 16:29.41 | fozzmoo | With exceptions, a lot of California civic structure is in debt past their eyeballs, mostly from providing (excessive) social services. |
| 16:30.21 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Not exactly. We have a few complete nutsos here which are totally fscking up the budget. |
| 16:30.31 | fozzmoo | But, of course, it all comes back to the same thing... |
| 16:30.34 | harleypig | The Terminator being one of them. |
| 16:30.38 | fozzmoo | California does not fear God. |
| 16:30.44 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 16:30.54 | fozzmoo | fans with goozbach |
| 16:31.12 | harleypig | fozzmoo: not only does it not fear God, it's waggling it's butt at him. |
| 16:31.22 | *** part/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 16:31.26 | Sargun | s/it's/they're/ |
| 16:31.45 | Sargun | "they are waggling their butt" |
| 16:31.47 | harleypig | It's a funnier mental image my way. |
| 16:32.09 | Sargun | Please use 'good english' ;-P |
| 16:32.14 | fozzmoo | All those gays, wagging their collective butt. |
| 16:32.15 | harleypig | California with it's landscape down around its ankles, bent over and waggling ... |
| 16:32.40 | fozzmoo | screams and gouges his eyes out. |
| 16:32.44 | harleypig | :D |
| 16:33.06 | fozzmoo | (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) |
| 16:33.16 | Sargun | harleypig, What do you think about cindy sheehan? |
| 16:33.30 | fozzmoo | Marxist. |
| 16:33.46 | fozzmoo | Friend of Chavez. Also Marxist. |
| 16:34.10 | goozbach | my arm is getting tired |
| 16:34.18 | harleypig | I think she had a valid point at one time. She's long ago lost her point and possibly her mind. |
| 16:34.56 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Stop doing what... you're doing with it. |
| 16:34.56 | goozbach | plugs in an electric bellows |
| 16:34.56 | goozbach | I was fanning the flames (and flamers) |
| 16:35.00 | harleypig | What about the flaming ... |
| 16:35.06 | goozbach | the liked it (both the flames and flamers) and wouldn't let me stop |
| 16:35.19 | goozbach | stops trying to be funny |
| 16:36.01 | fozzmoo | I think Sheehan was a poor suffering mom who was coopted by agenda-driven Marxists and trapped there. |
| 16:36.17 | fozzmoo | I doubt she really has any real political leanings. |
| 16:36.20 | harleypig | fozzmoo: a better way to say what I was thinking |
| 16:38.23 | Sargun | harleypig, Do you think the war in Iraq is a good idea? |
| 16:41.33 | harleypig | Sargun: What I think is beside the point and won't change anything one way or the other. |
| 16:42.30 | harleypig | What I think is important is that the people who have sworn to defend our country should *not* be judged by civilians in a civilian court. |
| 16:43.33 | harleypig | Whether or not they are defending us or oil is not our responsibility (except in so far as we have voted those who are responsible into office) |
| 16:44.00 | Sargun | What do you think about the war? (I'm curious) |
| 16:44.07 | Sargun | What do you think about stem cell research? |
| 16:44.34 | harleypig | I think we should have pursued it in the early 90s to its conclusion. |
| 16:45.03 | harleypig | I think stem cell research should be allowed, but procedures put in place to prevent a market for dead babies. |
| 16:45.29 | harleypig | I think stem cell research is a golden opportunity that we are missing out on. |
| 16:45.59 | harleypig | Anything else? :] |
| 16:46.12 | harleypig | I also believe in animism. |
| 16:46.21 | harleypig | shushes Jayce^ |
| 16:47.55 | Sargun | harleypig, Gay marriage? |
| 16:49.36 | harleypig | I believe that it is wrong. I also believe in the separation of church and state. There is nothing outside of scriptures that proves homosexuality is wrong. I will vote against gay marriage because of my religious beliefs. |
| 16:50.08 | harleypig | However, I think co-habiting people should be given the same benefits as married couples. |
| 16:50.31 | harleypig | This would include siblings living together as adults, etc. |
| 16:51.35 | Sargun | Hm. |
| 16:51.43 | harleypig | :] yes? |
| 16:51.56 | Sargun | So you're not a hard conservative? |
| 16:52.42 | harleypig | I'm a thinking man. I refuse to accept a label which will automatically put me in one camp or another. |
| 16:53.08 | harleypig | How's that for a new party ... Thinker |
| 16:56.28 | Tene | I think that the idea of "marriage" in the religious sense should be divorced from whatever interest it is that the government has in recognizing any sort of unions. |
| 16:57.13 | Tene | I'd like to be able to walk down to a government building and file papers listing the people that should be given access/responsibility over me in case of medical emergency, for example. |
| 16:58.53 | jsmith | harleypig: You saying we should rename the "Radical Moderates Party" to be the "Thinking Party"? |
| 16:59.13 | harleypig | Radical Moderates? :D |
| 16:59.40 | harleypig | hmmm ... maybe make it the slogan? "Radical Moderates ... the thinking man's party" |
| 17:02.54 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 17:03.12 | levi | harleypig: With all those people thinking, you might have a bit of trouble with consensus. |
| 17:06.22 | levi | Modern political process seems to function by convincing people to abdicate their responsibility to think to their political party. That relieves the party from needing to come up with any real arguments, allowing them to focus purely on marketing, emotional appeal, and slandering of opponents. |
| 17:06.37 | Tene | http://seqram.livejournal.com/18182.html -- interesting |
| 17:06.41 | levi | Much more efficient that way! |
| 17:06.58 | jsmith | harleypig: I like it! |
| 17:11.44 | harleypig | levi: true ... unfortunately, and even more so because its succeeding. |
| 17:14.10 | levi | Well, it's a direct result of the difficulty of keeping independent thinkers in line. They don't tend to agree, and then you don't hold on to your base. |
| 17:14.59 | harleypig | there's also the fact that independent thinkers are ... pariahtized ... is that a word? |
| 17:15.06 | harleypig | made pariahs. |
| 17:15.34 | levi | Right, breaking from the crowd tends to be looked down upon by the crowd. |
| 17:16.37 | levi | But really, thinking deeply about things is a rather unnatural approach. Responding to things based on preconceived notions and emotional appeal is the human default. |
| 17:39.00 | harleypig | you mean the natural man |
| 17:39.55 | Supaplex | I hear the natural man is carb free |
| 17:40.58 | Supaplex | -excuse |
| 17:40.59 | brac | Hot Java has gone cold |
| 17:49.30 | levi | harleypig: Depends on what you mean by 'the natural man'. |
| 17:56.07 | harleypig | Mosiah 3:19 |
| 18:01.59 | levi | Well, in that sense the 'natural man' is everyone who's not yielding to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, which is not the same as everyone who's not yielding to logical thinking. |
| 18:02.23 | levi | So, no, I don't exactly mean the natural man. |
| 18:06.02 | levi | I don't recall Jesus praising anyone for logical thinking, or chastising anyone who followed him without logical justification. |
| 18:07.27 | harleypig | I'm not sure I follow your direction here ... |
| 18:07.48 | harleypig | As far as I can tell Jesus debated with both logic and feeling. |
| 18:08.01 | levi | There's nothing that says the natural man can't be a thinking man as well. |
| 18:08.32 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@mail.FYRENICE.COM) |
| 18:08.39 | levi | Jesus spent a lot of time debating with 'thinking men', and calling them to task for it. |
| 18:08.41 | harleypig | I disagree ... there's a difference between cleverness and thoughtfulness |
| 18:09.40 | harleypig | meh ... I don't have time to expound on my pov ... but I think your simplifying things a little too much. |
| 18:10.27 | levi | I'm not saying that thinking is necessarily an attribute of the natural man, just that the concept of the natural man is orthogonal to how well a person thinks things through logically. |
| 18:11.36 | levi | Some of the BoM antichrists were good at persuading people through logic. |
| 18:12.40 | levi | I also don't think following Christ requires great logical facility, though it's not necessarily incompatible with such. |
| 18:14.54 | harleypig | I don't think it's automatically orthogonal |
| 18:14.59 | harleypig | though it generally is. |
| 18:15.41 | levi | Orthogonal just means that the two concepts can coexist, but they aren't tied together. The function independently. |
| 18:16.18 | harleypig | I have to look that up ... I've always thought that it meant 'not parallel' |
| 18:16.52 | levi | One is a natural man when one does not yield to the enticings of the holy spirit. The enticings of the holy spirit aren't *logical*, and so the question of whether one is a natural man or not has nothing to do with whether one is good at reasoning about things. |
| 18:17.53 | levi | One can be an expert logician and a great politician who argues all positions from logic, but still be a natural man. |
| 18:17.57 | harleypig | Why aren't the enticings logical? |
| 18:18.18 | levi | Because they're enticings, not dissertations. |
| 18:18.41 | levi | That doesn't mean they can't be logically defensible, just that they don't come in essay form. |
| 18:18.55 | harleypig | I'll concede ... but I think logic is a dissertation. |
| 18:19.04 | harleypig | s/I think/I don't/g |
| 18:19.10 | harleypig | meh |
| 18:20.01 | levi | I wasn't literally meaning that all logic was presented in dissertation form, but it's always presented in a logical fashion, of which a dissertation should be an example. |
| 18:21.32 | harleypig | The enticings of the spirit are always logical, in my experience, though sometimes not immediately so. |
| 18:21.36 | levi | An uneducated man can follow the enticings of the spirit without logical analysis, and a great logician might completely ignore them. |
| 18:21.50 | levi | harleypig: By 'logical' you mean logically defensible, which is not the same thing. |
| 18:21.58 | harleypig | I think we're talking different things here. |
| 18:21.59 | harleypig | yeah |
| 18:22.26 | Tene | Enticings of the spirit come as a finished product, without attached reasoning. |
| 18:22.45 | Tene | The doctrine is tha tif you follow it, you'll end up at a good place, but you won't necessarily know how or why. |
| 18:22.51 | levi | Well, if you consider the context that I'm arguing in, it should be a little clearer what I'm trying to say. |
| 18:23.07 | Tene | The spirit tells you "do this", not "This is a good idea because of suchandsuch, therefore, ..." |
| 18:23.29 | harleypig | actually, it frequently does that to me. *shrug* Maybe that's my problem ... :/ |
| 18:23.55 | levi | I said that the human default is to function based on preconceived notions, emotional appeal, etc. and not on logic. And you said 'you mean the natural man'? And I explained why I don't believe 'the natural man' accurately characterizes what I was trying to say. |
| 18:25.13 | levi | (and yes, the mathematical definition of 'orthogonal' means 'not parallel', but its usage is significantly wider than that) |
| 18:25.31 | harleypig | Well, while i was being a smart aleck ... hmmm ... how do I put this. You said the human default ... which ... |
| 18:25.36 | harleypig | includes the natural man ... |
| 18:25.47 | Jayce^ | imagines brian regan reading levi's argument... "that's all I'm trying to say..." |
| 18:25.51 | harleypig | its been too long since I've had to defend my statements seriously. |
| 18:26.39 | levi | 'The natural man' includes both those who are about to reason about and logically defend their actions as well as those who don't. |
| 18:26.57 | harleypig | While I was using the mathematical definition, I've always thought that 'not parallel' meant eventually they aren't in the same ball parl. |
| 18:27.02 | harleypig | s/parl./park./ |
| 18:27.10 | levi | harleypig: They intersect, but only at a single point! |
| 18:27.49 | harleypig | right, so eventually they don't move in the same circles (to mangle things even further) |
| 18:28.01 | levi | So, yes, they may be close together for a long time, or they may diverge quickly. |
| 18:28.24 | levi | But any two lines are either parallel or not, so it's not really saying a whole lot. |
| 18:28.34 | harleypig | Or, throwing math out the window they may be like a couple of strings tossed on the table. |
| 18:28.41 | harleypig | sometimes they cross, sometimes they don't. |
| 18:28.50 | harleypig | sometimes they are intertwined. |
| 18:29.29 | levi | The gist of the common usage of 'orthogonal' is that they are separate concerns, though they may intersect. |
| 18:29.31 | harleypig | which is why I said I don't think they are automatically orthogonal ... iow, they may have multiple intersecting points. |
| 18:29.57 | harleypig | right, but only once, and usually as a basis, not an ongoing concern. |
| 18:30.13 | levi | The *are* separate concerns, even though there may be overlap. |
| 18:30.27 | levi | I'm talking about logic, the scriptures are talking about whether you listen to the spirit or not. |
| 18:30.51 | harleypig | I don't think the scripture separate logic from the spirit. |
| 18:31.00 | harleypig | s/scripture/scriptures/ |
| 18:31.01 | fozzmoo | Mutually independent; well separated; |
| 18:31.10 | levi | They don't conjoin them, either. |
| 18:31.34 | harleypig | I didn't say they did. |
| 18:32.04 | levi | Then you have no basis for saying that the natural man corresponds to the concept I was speaking of. |
| 18:32.43 | harleypig | The default human condition is to take the easy path. Essentially. Am I missing something, or making to simple? |
| 18:32.52 | harleypig | err ... making it too simple |
| 18:33.08 | levi | Well, that may be another attribute of the default human condition, but not the one I was speaking of. |
| 18:34.23 | harleypig | Responding to things based on a preconceived notions and emotional appeal |
| 18:34.53 | levi | I'm not sure it's entirely true that we're by default lazy, either. |
| 18:35.06 | harleypig | Easiest path != lazy |
| 18:40.48 | fozzmoo | Argh |
| 18:41.21 | fozzmoo | Some wise-butt with Glenn Beck or Premiere Interactive changed the login form for the Glenn Beck Insider. |
| 18:41.36 | fozzmoo | Broke my stream-download script. |
| 18:41.41 | fozzmoo | But, I fixed it. |
| 18:41.52 | fozzmoo | It was incredibly dumb. Had to change "submit" to "Submit" |
| 18:42.02 | elg | ~reboot fozzmoo |
| 18:42.02 | ibot | ACTION pushes fozzmoo's reset button |
| 18:42.51 | harleypig | fozzmoo: case insensitivity ? |
| 18:47.06 | levi | http://www.asoftanswer.com/2008/08/19/charity-in-politics/ |
| 18:48.27 | levi | Which was a quote from here, which has more: http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/heber-j-grant-on-politics/ |
| 18:49.40 | bonez45 | are there any tools like ClamWin. that get rid of rootkits and things on WinXP? |
| 18:49.52 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 18:50.10 | bonez45 | my kids downloaded soemthing with AntiMalWare..a nd now I can't get the damned thing off their XP box...just wondering what I can replace that with... similar to ClamWin |
| 18:50.18 | jsmith | bonez45: microsoft.com/defender |
| 18:50.36 | bonez45 | jsmith: so that's a malware applet from MS... ? |
| 18:51.18 | jsmith | bonez45: Exactly ;-) |
| 19:06.11 | bonez45 | opk.. that's helping, thanks.. |
| 19:12.44 | elg | i don't know about being all-powerful, but i find most people are happy with the free version of AVG |
| 19:13.08 | Sargun | bonez45, reinstall? |
| 19:13.32 | elg | whatever you do, run at full tilt naked and screaming down the halls of your kids school before you purchase and/or install norton |
| 19:13.55 | elg | cool, D has first class functions and closures |
| 19:14.02 | elg | even if the syntax is slightly funky |
| 19:14.36 | elg | and map, reduce, etc. (and if it's missing any you can easily construct your own) |
| 19:17.22 | levi | Sounds like it's changed a bit since I used it a couple of years ago. |
| 19:18.07 | levi | I know a guy who's 'in' with the D community. He helped out in some regard with the D conference last year or something like that. |
| 20:15.34 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch_@nat/novell/x-b4e01f254adee07f) |
| 20:20.32 | ^Migs^ | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112885 |
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| 20:46.26 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (n=hearts@166-70-210-98.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:47.02 | brasto | how do you add an administrator for a group in F9/RHEL5? |
| 20:47.11 | brasto | anyone know? |
| 20:47.17 | Sargun | administrator? |
| 20:47.32 | brasto | yep, for a group |
| 20:48.00 | Sargun | you mean a user whose primary group is it? |
| 20:50.21 | dataw0lf | I can't parse that question. |
| 20:50.52 | dataw0lf | brasto: do you mean how do you add a user to wheel? |
| 20:52.55 | brasto | no, putting a password to a group that one user can modify who is not an otherwise privileged user, dataw0lf. |
| 20:53.30 | Sargun | uhm |
| 20:53.37 | thaddeusq | brasto: You want a password for a group? |
| 20:53.57 | Sargun | brasto, are you sure this can be done? |
| 20:54.16 | brasto | Mike Adams, my co worker thinks so |
| 20:54.51 | dataw0lf | maybe with PAM? I don't know. |
| 20:55.00 | thaddeusq | brasto: You want someone to be able to add users to a group who is not otherwise an administrator on the box? |
| 20:56.34 | brasto | man page on gpasswd has it |
| 20:56.52 | ^Migs^ | this pisses me off: http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/space_limits |
| 20:57.14 | brasto | wouldn't want to use a group password, but just in case. |
| 20:57.42 | brasto | ~piss ^Migs^ off |
| 20:57.42 | ibot | ACTION ^Migs^ off goes behind Beans & Brews and waters a tree |
| 21:00.41 | ^Migs^ | I SO WANNA DO THIS: http://gizmodo.com/5039006/kite-surfer-goes-out-during-tropical-storm-learns-valuable-lesson-about-the-power-of-nature |
| 21:01.14 | Tene | migs: what exactly pisses you off about that? |
| 21:01.19 | thaddeusq | brasto: I assume you want to know more about the -A option with gpasswd. You'd have to implement group password to do that. You really don't want to implement a group password. |
| 21:02.05 | brasto | thaddeusq: agreed, but sometimes people ask about this, so I needed to have the info on what to say, other than just "don't do it". |
| 21:12.57 | ^Migs^ | that we might never reach other stars |
| 21:13.22 | ^Migs^ | bunch of pessimistic scientists. We'll just jump to warp or hyperspace or whatever. |
| 21:13.26 | ^Migs^ | problem solved |
| 21:13.43 | ^Migs^ | besides, aren't there tons of theoretical methods of fuel-efficient propulsion? |
| 21:15.59 | levi | Yay for regular expression search/replace! |
| 21:20.15 | *** join/#utah gabegundy (n=gabe@57.251.sfcn.org) |
| 21:20.58 | gabegundy | anyone here have advice on a cell phone (hardware and service)? |
| 21:21.06 | levi | I just swapped the byte order of a bunch of constants with it. |
| 21:21.27 | levi | gabegundy: What do you want? |
| 21:21.48 | gabegundy | I hate phone companies more then I just about anyone else. |
| 21:22.23 | gabegundy | Well, I'm on a bit of a budget, but price is not the only factor. |
| 21:22.49 | gabegundy | Work with google apps would be nice. |
| 21:22.59 | levi | So... what do you want? Presumably you care about some features other than just dialing phone numbers. |
| 21:23.01 | Sargun | gabegundy, OpenMoko |
| 21:23.25 | levi | Yeah, get an OpenMoko, unless you actually want to make phone calls and stuff. :P |
| 21:23.46 | elg | prepares to give weka a spin |
| 21:23.58 | gabegundy | funny. I hear TM is coming out with and Android phone in the fall. |
| 21:24.07 | levi | What's weka? |
| 21:24.16 | elg | a machine learning engine |
| 21:24.33 | elg | and java framework, but i plan to just generate data files in ruby and run it standalone |
| 21:24.37 | elg | ~weka |
| 21:24.38 | ibot | Data Mining Workbench in Java. URL: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/ml/weka/ |
| 21:24.38 | levi | gabegundy: Personally, I don't talk on my cell phone much at all, so I have a T-Mobile To Go account and a cheap phone. |
| 21:24.42 | brac | [Weka 3 - Data Mining with Open Source Machine Learning Software in Java] |
| 21:24.43 | gabegundy | that sounds more interesting then a cell phone. |
| 21:25.27 | elg | let's hear it for bot cooperation |
| 21:26.00 | gabegundy | levi: What's "To Go"? Prepay? Do mins cost more that way? |
| 21:26.29 | elg | ibot, weka is also a large flightless New Zealand rail with heavily built legs and feet. (Gallirallus australis, family Rallidae.) |
| 21:26.29 | ibot | elg: okay |
| 21:26.40 | levi | gabegundy: Yes, it's prepaid minutes, and they cost more that way if you use any amount that approaches the number of minutes you'd get with a monthly plan. |
| 21:27.12 | levi | But I spend about $20 on minutes every few months, depending on usage, so it works out much cheaper overall for me. |
| 21:27.26 | levi | Since I never pay for minutes I don't use. |
| 21:27.27 | gabegundy | You can't do data that way - right? |
| 21:27.33 | levi | Nope. |
| 21:27.56 | levi | Well, actually, you may be able to get the Sidekick with a To Go plan, but that would probably get expensive. |
| 21:28.17 | gabegundy | I think checking email for me is a must. That was the worst part of loosing the company phone, no portable email. |
| 21:28.45 | elg | just set up asterisk to read it to you |
| 21:29.03 | levi | I enjoyed my Sprint treo when I had a montly cell phone bill. |
| 21:29.08 | gabegundy | s/loosing/losing |
| 21:29.16 | levi | If I was going to go back to a monthly bill I'd get an iPhone. |
| 21:29.21 | elg | quickly shuts off his mind before it explores the idea of an asterisk voicemail/email gateway |
| 21:29.41 | levi | elg: No kidding, you've got better things to work on. :) |
| 21:29.45 | gabegundy | tempted to do the iphone also. |
| 21:29.54 | elg | good thing I don't have a cell phone |
| 21:30.15 | elg | not that i'd bother. I only get a handful of messages a day and most aren't time-sensitive |
| 21:30.27 | gabegundy | elg: Asterisk is good stuff, but you know i can't get a decent ping to my gateway on SFCN and it kills my SIP trunk. |
| 21:30.27 | elg | and those that are come when I'm firmly planted in front of the computer |
| 21:30.31 | bonez45 | levi: what plan do you have now, if not a monthly billed plan? |
| 21:30.32 | levi | The iPhone is probably the most usable web browsing phone. |
| 21:30.44 | levi | bonez45: TMobile To Go. |
| 21:30.49 | Sargun | uhm. |
| 21:30.56 | levi | (which I only said 3 or 4 times above) |
| 21:30.59 | Sargun | N96. |
| 21:31.10 | gabegundy | I would even consider dropping Asterisk in my home and just getting my wife a cell phone also. |
| 21:31.11 | bonez45 | levi: oh, I just joined.. but I'll scroll up and read.. |
| 21:32.19 | bonez45 | gabegundy: I'd consider that.. but I don't want to give my boys a cell phone.. they'd run the bill way up... |
| 21:32.29 | gabegundy | With the iphone, you don't have any choice but AT&T |
| 21:32.45 | bonez45 | is there any hardware on the horizon to eclipse the iphone eventually? |
| 21:32.55 | bonez45 | is anyone building anything to outdo Apple? |
| 21:32.56 | gabegundy | bonez45: My kids are not old enough to worry. |
| 21:33.11 | levi | bonez45: I'm sure there will be, for some definitions of 'eclipse' and 'outdo'. |
| 21:33.20 | bonez45 | gabegundy: well, mine are 8, 10 and 12. and all of them have friends they'd talk to all day if they could |
| 21:33.55 | Sargun | bonez45, how old are your boys? |
| 21:34.42 | gabegundy | bonez45: http://tmonews.com/2008/08/android-screenshot-heaven/ |
| 21:35.28 | levi | I guess the N96 looks like it has a fairly usable browser. |
| 21:36.23 | levi | Not cheap, though. |
| 21:36.57 | Sargun | True. |
| 21:40.32 | levi | If it was anywhere as easy to use as an iPhone, you'd think I'd be able to find videos of someone actually using it instead of just kind of spinning it around so you could see how chubby it is. |
| 21:49.03 | gabegundy | Anyone here have the new iPhone? |
| 21:49.26 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 21:50.01 | gabegundy | And, is it worth it? |
| 21:50.14 | Jayce^ | loves it, absolutely.. |
| 21:50.16 | gabegundy | Do I have to run iTunes? |
| 21:50.22 | Jayce^ | but will everyone in this channel? no.. |
| 21:50.39 | Jayce^ | only if you want to update it/install non jailbroken stuff |
| 21:50.56 | gabegundy | The jail break sounds a little risky. |
| 21:51.25 | Jayce^ | are you kidding? jailbreaking is cake.. they have win/mac/linux gui's now to make it extra easy for each revision :) |
| 21:51.39 | gabegundy | lame that it's locked up in the first place, but I don't want to pay a bunch of money and then shoot myself in the foot. |
| 21:51.48 | Jayce^ | and you can always plug it back into itunes and restore it if you brick |
| 21:52.05 | Jayce^ | yeah, part of why I wouldn't see everybody in here liking it.. |
| 21:52.17 | Jayce^ | but it's an amazing ultra-portable internet tool.. |
| 21:52.24 | gabegundy | Really? That sounds painless. no worry about total brick mode? |
| 21:52.29 | Jayce^ | best phone I've had so far.. |
| 21:52.41 | dataw0lf | I have the new iphone too |
| 21:52.42 | gabegundy | What about the contract? |
| 21:52.44 | dataw0lf | ++++ |
| 21:53.05 | Jayce^ | nah, I screwed mine up once when it was brand new (it worked,but couldn't register 3g), so I just clicked one button, and it restored (in about 10 minutes, of course) |
| 21:53.29 | Jayce^ | contract? same I'd have with any other phone... sucks, but not anything exclusive to the iphone |
| 21:54.45 | gabegundy | but you can't shop it around with the iPhone. |
| 21:55.20 | Jayce^ | I'm sure findlay wouldn't accept the iphone on religious grounds of course, but if you can live with the idea, it's an amazing device |
| 21:55.54 | Jayce^ | gabegundy, not a first either... just a bigger deal because the other companies snubbed it at first.. |
| 21:56.05 | dataw0lf | I was anti Apple for a long long time, but with Leopard and the 3G iPhone, I'm a complete convert. |
| 21:56.19 | Jayce^ | I think that happening is making it easier for the android to be plausable |
| 21:56.31 | elg | ~plause Jayce^ |
| 21:56.40 | Jayce^ | ditto, though happened a bit earlier :) |
| 21:56.50 | Jayce^ | i can haz plause? |
| 21:56.56 | dataw0lf | plauses |
| 21:57.39 | gabegundy | findlay my kinda guy :) |
| 21:58.48 | gabegundy | OK - If I go get the iPhone, is there any reason to shop it, or will the price be the same everywhere? |
| 21:59.20 | Jayce^ | same everywhere (except ebay :) ) |
| 21:59.26 | Jayce^ | apple store is most likely to have some |
| 21:59.59 | Jayce^ | I like it though, I hate phones overall, but this one is handy for some much other stuff |
| 22:00.10 | Jayce^ | google reader wherever I want it :) |
| 22:00.19 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: Agreed. I absolutely can't stand phones, but the iphone is helpful in numerous situations. |
| 22:00.21 | mrpull | the iphone google reader is dope |
| 22:00.38 | dataw0lf | I've gone slightly app crazy of late. |
| 22:00.38 | mrpull | it works well enough in opera on Windows Mobile |
| 22:00.57 | dataw0lf | if you guys are into photog, PhotoCalc ftw |
| 22:01.18 | Jayce^ | for some reason I can't get the smugmug app to work |
| 22:02.25 | dataw0lf | I use Exposure |
| 22:04.10 | Jayce^ | I have it, wish it allowed uploading |
| 22:04.11 | *** join/#utah Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70-6-1-143.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:04.23 | dataw0lf | yea, that'd be nice |
| 22:04.27 | Trevy1 | plug |
| 22:04.52 | *** part/#utah Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70-6-1-143.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:05.38 | Jayce^ | have Air me too, which does let you upload |
| 22:06.06 | dataw0lf | hmm |
| 22:06.21 | dataw0lf | ugh just looking at my Flickr account makes me so angry about my camera being stolen |
| 22:10.37 | gabegundy | Well thanks guys. Guess I'm off to the nearest Apple store. |
| 22:10.48 | gabegundy | feels dirty. |
| 22:11.10 | Jayce^ | gabegundy, the hardest part about buying a mac is admitting you're gay.... :-D |
| 22:11.26 | Jayce^ | (ex coworkers favorite quote) |
| 22:11.38 | Jayce^ | remembers a penny-arcade about that |
| 22:11.56 | gabegundy | ahhh..... |
| 22:12.23 | neybar | :) |
| 22:12.35 | gabegundy | never reads penny-arcade and doesn't know how to respond. |
| 22:12.54 | Jayce^ | ah yes... http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/03/ |
| 22:12.57 | gabegundy | sure, not that there is anything wrong with that. |
| 22:14.42 | harleypig | DON'T DO IT! |
| 22:16.01 | harleypig | Jayce^ is scaring me |
| 22:17.46 | gabegundy | Where is the nearest place to buy one? |
| 22:17.55 | gabegundy | Say I'm in SF right now. |
| 22:18.10 | harleypig | bites his tongue |
| 22:18.51 | gabegundy | NOT San Francisco. |
| 22:19.18 | gabegundy | Spanish Fork. |
| 22:20.23 | harleypig | oh oh ... sure ... suuuuure |
| 22:20.36 | Jayce^ | ATT stores, if they have any in stock |
| 22:20.42 | Jayce^ | otherwise apple store is it |
| 22:21.13 | Jayce^ | best buy says they'll start carrying them soonish |
| 22:21.44 | gabegundy | I need something today. |
| 22:22.03 | gabegundy | Being without a cell is pretty hard to do if you are looking for work. |
| 22:23.17 | gabegundy | And you can't talk on your home phone cause SFCN is using a C64 to power the city network. |
| 22:23.40 | Jayce^ | get a grandcentral? |
| 22:23.58 | gabegundy | I have one, just never really used it. |
| 22:24.31 | gabegundy | but you know, that's a good idea. |
| 22:28.07 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@gocastlerock.com) |
| 22:28.07 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 22:28.19 | elg | then find you a nice payphone with a park bench |
| 22:28.55 | *** part/#utah findlay (n=justin@gocastlerock.com) |
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| 23:14.27 | neybar | is there a way to get at the value of a form field in the template? {{ form.name.value }} or something like that? |
| 23:14.47 | neybar | wrong tab... |
| 23:23.46 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@12.50.72.2) |
| 23:32.49 | maquis | mmmm... aminal crackers |
| 23:35.30 | Sargun | Bah. |
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