| 00:26.51 | findlay | -chat boring |
| 00:26.51 | brac | boring went |
| 00:26.57 | findlay | nowhere |
| 00:27.09 | findlay | this channel is boring |
| 00:27.14 | findlay | -chat this channel |
| 00:27.14 | brac | this channel i didn't think that'd be TPY?/IP |
| 00:35.38 | *** topic/#utah by findlay -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC disccode POUNDUTAH (Early Bird Ends Aug 7) 2008.utosc.com | Tell sjansen that he's wrong just once, I dare you! | #utah has failed to entertain findlay |
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| 02:26.15 | levi | Good evening. |
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| 03:06.51 | findlay | Good evening, Dr levi. |
| 03:24.09 | findlay | -chat |
| 03:24.10 | brac | probably has his own life to do with NFS |
| 03:56.29 | levi | findlay: What's up? |
| 03:56.39 | levi | I had to go buy more cat food, and mop up the kitchen floor. |
| 03:57.23 | levi | Earlier in the day, my daughter got ahold of an opened packet of instant breakfast, and although I swept most of it up, dripping water on the floor while washing dishes revealed that not all of it was gone. |
| 03:57.42 | findlay | I ran to the Y today |
| 03:57.57 | findlay | and got burned |
| 03:58.08 | findlay | and dehydrated |
| 03:58.54 | levi | What time of day was it? |
| 03:59.23 | levi | That's what's cool about bicycles. They come with water bottle holders, so you don't get dehydrated. :) |
| 04:02.49 | findlay | about 2:30 - 3:30 |
| 04:03.01 | levi | Yeah, that's a good time to get burnt. :) |
| 04:04.46 | levi | findlay: Seen this? http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=umhistmath;idno=ACM1516.0001.001 |
| 04:07.05 | levi | I'm so screwed with my online classes. |
| 04:07.33 | levi | I may have to retake my theater class, which is lame, because there was so little work to do. |
| 04:14.32 | findlay | levi: interesting |
| 04:15.12 | levi | It's supposed to be a classic text. Its Amazon reviews are almost unanimously glowing. |
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| 06:00.19 | findlay | -chat yesterday |
| 06:00.20 | brac | yesterday was pi day, my bad. dst rolls on sunday. |
| 06:08.15 | levi | -chat nothing |
| 06:08.16 | brac | nothing did |
| 06:08.19 | levi | -chat nothing |
| 06:08.19 | brac | nothing had changed your ideas |
| 06:08.21 | levi | -chat nothing |
| 06:08.21 | brac | nothing went wrong so you say "mark of the fiancee |
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| 06:30.09 | levi | So, what is up, anyone who is still awake? |
| 06:56.20 | Tene | http://www.dlugosz.com/Perl6/web/Infinity_romp.html |
| 06:56.21 | brac | [A Romp Through Infinity] |
| 06:59.03 | levi | Only one infinity? No cardinality comparison of infinities? How lame! ;P |
| 07:00.21 | Tene | rather misleading title. |
| 07:01.38 | Tene | There's a document somewhere talking about proper handling of Infinities in Perl 6. Lemme see if I can find it... |
| 07:08.19 | Tene | Most of that works currently in rakudo, looks like. |
| 07:09.49 | Tene | Ooo, gather is NYI. I should go I. |
| 07:10.27 | Tene | (exceptions system in parrot has been being reworked in a branch for a couple ofmonths now. Just merged a couple of days ago. |
| 07:19.25 | levi | I should really try to go to sleep. |
| 08:41.00 | Tene | LIES |
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| 12:17.09 | Tene | http://www.pmichaud.com/2008/pres/oscon-pct/slides/slide14d.html#end |
| 12:17.10 | brac | [PIR] |
| 12:58.04 | Sargun_screen | morning |
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| 13:51.37 | Sargun_screen | http://www.drhorrible.com/ |
| 13:51.40 | brac | [Dr. Horrible] |
| 13:59.33 | levi | Is it still up there? |
| 14:03.58 | encryptz | is what still up where? |
| 14:04.49 | levi | I was wondering if Dr. Horrible was still up for free on the Dr. Horrible site. |
| 14:05.56 | levi | I guess it's still up, but with commercials. |
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| 15:16.45 | maquis | points out that streaming music from singapore is kind-of painful |
| 15:19.45 | fozzmoo | because? |
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| 15:32.10 | unum | they cain for copy right violations |
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| 15:34.29 | fozzmoo | They cane for fun. |
| 15:34.47 | fozzmoo | They cane for urination in state-owned elevators. |
| 15:34.59 | unum | has been reading too much election coverage |
| 15:35.15 | fozzmoo | I always thought it was funny they even had laws about urinating in elevators. |
| 15:35.20 | fozzmoo | unum: Burning out? |
| 15:35.37 | fozzmoo | unum: I wish there was a way to get both presidential candidates to just drop out. |
| 15:35.47 | fozzmoo | (short of assassinations.) |
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| 15:47.06 | unum | fozzmoo: just spelling words wrong so far :) |
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| 15:48.25 | unum | so I'm using perl curses and I want to display a counter on the screen that will stop when they press a button |
| 15:49.04 | unum | I think I can see how to do it with $oldcurses |
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| 16:10.06 | findlay | yay |
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| 16:10.09 | unum | nm figured it out |
| 16:10.11 | goozbach | unum: what's your escuse for all the years which aren't election years? :) |
| 16:10.11 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 16:10.11 | maquis | ~lart goozbach |
| 16:10.11 | ibot | slaps goozbach upside the head with a wet fish |
| 16:10.11 | maquis | goozbach: how's it going? |
| 16:11.23 | goozbach | going well, working from home! |
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| 16:12.04 | levi | fozzmoo: Who would be president if the current candidates dropped out? Bob Barr? Ralph Nader? |
| 16:12.04 | brasto | any konqueror users out there? |
| 16:12.35 | fozzmoo | levi: I don't know. I just don't think we have very good candidates to choose from. |
| 16:12.36 | JoshH | better than bush and kerry, or bush and gore |
| 16:12.57 | fozzmoo | JoshH: I disagree. |
| 16:12.58 | JoshH | i like mccain more than bush, and obama more than gore or kerry |
| 16:12.58 | fozzmoo | Say what you want about Bush, but he had better qualifications to be president in 2000 than either of these two clowns |
| 16:13.47 | brasto | I've just migrated from OpenSuse 11 to Fedora 9 and for some reason, Konqueror is missing the search bar in the top right... |
| 16:13.48 | JoshH | but bush proved that qualifications don't mean much |
| 16:13.48 | JoshH | it's all about the person |
| 16:13.48 | brasto | ~praise bush |
| 16:13.49 | ibot | All hail bush! |
| 16:14.17 | brasto | looks around the room for herlo |
| 16:14.52 | maquis | we should elect bruce schneier. |
| 16:15.06 | whiteinge | hear hear |
| 16:15.06 | fozzmoo | I'm just saying I wish we had at least one viable candidate that had qualifications. |
| 16:15.59 | fozzmoo | Nobody seems to think running the country is anything like being a CEO of a large company. |
| 16:16.01 | JoshH | if obama picks wes clark as his vp, i think that would be a pretty solid ticket. |
| 16:16.01 | maquis | fozzmoo: course not |
| 16:16.12 | maquis | :P |
| 16:16.12 | fozzmoo | Neither McCain or Obama have any kind of executive experience, in public service, or otherwise. |
| 16:16.14 | maquis | CEOs have to follow a budget |
| 16:16.40 | JoshH | i don't think government is anything like a business, and shouldn't be ran like one |
| 16:16.40 | brasto | ~give fozzmoo a qualified candidate or two |
| 16:16.41 | ibot | ACTION gives a qualified candidate or two to fozzmoo |
| 16:16.55 | brasto | there you go fozzmoo |
| 16:16.55 | fozzmoo | yay. |
| 16:16.55 | JoshH | other than the fact that budgets are involved |
| 16:17.09 | maquis | is trying to remember the name of the guy she liked during the primaries. |
| 16:17.23 | maquis | my brain is so fried this week that i can't think of anything |
| 16:17.23 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Okay... budgets... what else? |
| 16:17.46 | JoshH | the goals and purposes of them are completely different |
| 16:17.55 | JoshH | a company exists to make as much profit as possible, a government protects and serves the people |
| 16:17.55 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Every organization has unique goals and purposes... |
| 16:18.21 | fozzmoo | JoshH: You're only saying that because it's been a hundred or so years since the US govt has seen a budget surplus. :) |
| 16:18.57 | fozzmoo | A company serves people too... shareholders, customers. |
| 16:19.06 | maquis | absolutely |
| 16:19.07 | JoshH | i think someone with executive, CEO, etc experience would be best at running the treasury or something, not being president |
| 16:19.21 | JoshH | they could be great advisors of course |
| 16:19.31 | maquis | CEOs have to make and defend hard decisions |
| 16:19.46 | fozzmoo | maquis: Right. And CEOs have to be able to negotiate deals... |
| 16:19.54 | maquis | yup |
| 16:20.11 | fozzmoo | And CEOs should be able to hire and fire people. |
| 16:20.24 | maquis | and a CEO knows that he can't please everyone everywhere |
| 16:20.25 | fozzmoo | I really don't see the difference. |
| 16:20.44 | fozzmoo | I mean, a CEO of a bank is different than a director of a non-profit... |
| 16:20.55 | fozzmoo | but a lot of the skills necessary to effectively perform the job are the same. |
| 16:20.58 | maquis | so, he should do what's best for the company and it's customers, even if it's not necessarily the most popular choice |
| 16:21.21 | maquis | i'm with fozz on this... |
| 16:21.23 | JoshH | i think in nearly every case, the popular choice is the correct one |
| 16:21.32 | maquis | JoshH: not necessarily |
| 16:21.45 | maquis | there's a lot of information that a CEO has that the rest of the company might not have |
| 16:22.03 | maquis | just like, in the US, there is information that the president has that you and i don't have |
| 16:22.15 | maquis | plus, there's a lot of stupid people... |
| 16:22.19 | JoshH | which should be shared with the population |
| 16:22.58 | maquis | JoshH: i agree that some of it should, but some info related to national security might not be something you want to share with every person in the country |
| 16:23.05 | maquis | or, to take it back to the analogy |
| 16:23.10 | fozzmoo | JoshH: You're naive. |
| 16:23.22 | fozzmoo | People make horrible, stupid decisions |
| 16:23.29 | fozzmoo | Thank goodness for 4-yr terms. |
| 16:23.35 | maquis | there's probably some info about the customer's position in relation to other companies and their plans for the future which you don't want to share with the people working the warehouses |
| 16:23.50 | fozzmoo | (and recall elections) |
| 16:23.54 | JoshH | executives are no smarter than the (informed) population |
| 16:24.10 | maquis | JoshH: what percentage of the population is informed? |
| 16:24.20 | maquis | and, do you disagree that executives might be better-informed? |
| 16:24.23 | fozzmoo | JoshH: In the case of Bill Clinton, I would agree with you. |
| 16:24.27 | JoshH | hard to say |
| 16:24.33 | fozzmoo | He relied on opinion polls more than any other president... ever. |
| 16:25.16 | fozzmoo | POpularly elected people... I'm thinking Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter, Hoover... |
| 16:25.31 | fozzmoo | They were all terrible presidents. |
| 16:25.38 | JoshH | and he is considered by most centrists to be a pretty good president, one of the best in recent memory |
| 16:25.40 | fozzmoo | Bad, bad choices for the office. |
| 16:26.10 | fozzmoo | Too bad I have to work. :) |
| 16:26.17 | JoshH | if an executive makes decisions all on his own, and they turn out to be good decisions, that's great, and he will be considered a good president. |
| 16:26.18 | maquis | JoshH: let me put it this way: it's a *good* thing that my company isn't run as a democracy |
| 16:26.26 | JoshH | but when someone makes the decisions that bush has made, it's the opposite |
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| 16:27.50 | JoshH | maquis: of course not, companies and countries cannot be compared as apples to apples |
| 16:28.07 | maquis | JoshH: no, but they're both fruit... |
| 16:28.25 | JoshH | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:28.40 | JoshH | the former exists to generate a profit, the other exists to protect the rights of the citizens |
| 16:29.28 | JoshH | a company can live or die based on the decisions of the executive leadership |
| 16:29.54 | JoshH | and that's fine, if a company dies, the employees work somewhere else |
| 16:35.42 | elg | certainly the stakes are higher. but you don't think a country can "die" (government collapse) based on the decisions of the executive leadership? |
| 16:36.20 | JoshH | no, i do |
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| 16:38.06 | JoshH | i think a strong executive is a good thing, but generally speaking, the executive should do what the people want him to do. |
| 16:38.41 | maquis | looks around and tries to decide whether she thinks that the random people out on the street can make intelligent decisions... |
| 16:38.48 | JoshH | it's hard to argue that clinton's decisions (based more on public opinion than bush's) were worse for the country than bushs's |
| 16:39.12 | JoshH | whatever you think of him as a person aside |
| 16:39.46 | JoshH | obviously if the population demand something that they are unable or unwilling to pay for, then it can't happen |
| 16:40.26 | elg | and a ceo should do what the shareholders want |
| 16:40.26 | JoshH | maquis, most of the true morons out there don't actually vote |
| 16:40.43 | maquis | JoshH: really? |
| 16:41.09 | elg | and either should do the better thing if they have more information. of course the analogy's not perfect but I agree that a lot of the skills are transferrable |
| 16:41.29 | unum | I think schneier should be appointed secratary of homeland security |
| 16:41.35 | elg | certainly that nebulous and distasteful (to us) thing called leadership |
| 16:41.38 | maquis | unum: i'll second that one |
| 16:41.57 | JoshH | when the executive has information that can't be shared for security reasons, then we have to hope he makes the right decision, of course |
| 16:41.59 | unum | and lessig the head of the fcc :) |
| 16:42.08 | unum | or copyright office |
| 16:42.10 | elg | maybe i'm jaded but I don't think being in politics is all that different from being in "management" or other leadership. it's all politics |
| 16:42.22 | maquis | elg: very good point |
| 16:42.23 | elg | it's just the business politicians have some experience with actual accountability |
| 16:43.01 | JoshH | but what about accountability |
| 16:43.16 | unum | my problem is most of the business politicians I know seem to think it's goverments job to give hand out to businesses |
| 16:43.27 | JoshH | many people think bush should be held accountable for all kinds of things, but even his democratic enemies are rejecting any possibility of it |
| 16:43.39 | elg | all politicians seem to believe it's the government's job to give handouts to *someone* |
| 16:43.45 | elg | they just differ in opinion on who |
| 16:43.55 | JoshH | and he's certainly a business politician, whose decisions range from bad to disastrous, depending on who you ask |
| 16:44.05 | unum | elg: I'd rather they were given to me :P |
| 16:44.17 | elg | JoshH: that's a tangent though. |
| 16:44.41 | JoshH | i'm just saying, theoretically, you can say that executive experience is a good quality in a president and it sounds right |
| 16:44.58 | JoshH | but in reality, some of the best presidents have had no such experience, and vice versa |
| 16:44.58 | elg | whether or not the president is held accountable, people whom reality has previously held accountable may have an edge against people who have just played in the arena of politics |
| 16:44.59 | unum | I found really odd when John dougal told me the state switching to odf would be intefering with the economy but using .doc was not |
| 16:45.10 | elg | JoshH: certainly it's no guarantee |
| 16:45.16 | JoshH | which is why i'm not concerned at all about the lack of such experience in our two current candidates |
| 16:45.28 | JoshH | unlike fozzmoo |
| 16:45.29 | elg | nor the most important quality probably (I'd put character there, personally, but that's so hard to measure) |
| 16:45.34 | unum | Lincoln had no executive experience |
| 16:45.42 | unum | teddy roosevelt had about two years worth |
| 16:46.22 | elg | i wouldn't be concerned with a president with lack of that experience if he had a natural aptituted for it, surrounded himself with experienced people, and has good character. you show me a candidate that meets those criteria and he's on my short list. |
| 16:46.48 | unum | though teddy had a lot of experience related to the federal executive branch that doesn't show up on the comparison charts |
| 16:46.51 | elg | but please, wait until october |
| 16:47.18 | JoshH | i think obama and mccain both have strong character, relative to other politicians, and will likely pick experienced, quality advisors |
| 16:47.21 | maquis | washington was still managing his estate, finanes and orchards via letters while out in the revolutionary war |
| 16:47.46 | JoshH | so it's basically a matter of positions and their vision for the country |
| 16:48.00 | unum | so we need more president with experience directing slaves while away ;) |
| 16:48.03 | maquis | unfortunately, people like george washington don't come around in the political arena anymore these days |
| 16:48.11 | elg | we need a president who can wield an axe |
| 16:48.48 | fozzmoo | unum: Lincoln had PLENTY Of executive experience- he had run businesses for years. |
| 16:49.32 | unum | he was partner in a law firm |
| 16:50.01 | fozzmoo | eventually. |
| 16:50.45 | fozzmoo | I'm surprised you guys are pulling Lincoln out as an example, anyway. :) |
| 16:51.15 | fozzmoo | Wasn't he a republican war-monger? :) |
| 16:51.48 | unum | lincoln argued against preemptive war |
| 16:52.04 | unum | he fought against people who were actually attacking federal property |
| 16:52.23 | JoshH | nothing wrong with war, even pre-emptive war, if it's truly necessary for our security. |
| 16:52.30 | JoshH | the iraq war isn't |
| 16:52.42 | fozzmoo | snickers |
| 16:52.56 | unum | preemptive war gives the president a chance to attack when ever he wants |
| 16:53.06 | unum | you can claim any country is likely to attack us |
| 16:53.15 | brasto | solved konqueror issue for anyone interested: yum install konq-plugins |
| 16:53.18 | JoshH | if there is a very good reason to think we will be attacked if we don't attack first, then i'm fine with attacking |
| 16:53.39 | unum | JoshH: define "very good reason" |
| 16:53.48 | elg | psychics |
| 16:53.55 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 16:53.59 | unum | elg: thanks, now I understand :) |
| 16:54.07 | fozzmoo | Or... physics. |
| 16:54.13 | JoshH | there is a lot of information out now that bush ignored evidence that saddam didn't really have WMD, and pressured intelligence agencies to only show him what he wanted |
| 16:54.22 | fozzmoo | "I think we will be attacked because I see the missiles headed our way." |
| 16:54.26 | unum | notes the spot he's sitting in was acquired by preemptive war |
| 16:54.51 | maquis | JoshH: and given that all the data that would support that reason would probably be classified, how exactly would you expect people without access to that info to make the decision (since you seem to think things like that should go by popular opinion) |
| 16:54.54 | fozzmoo | JoshH: "information" is a pretty vague term. |
| 16:54.56 | tensai | which goes back to the argument about a good president choosing good advisors. if they just repeat whatever drivel you ask them for, you might as well roll a d20. |
| 16:55.14 | maquis | i've spoken with someone who used to work in the DoD as a high-up advisor. |
| 16:55.19 | elg | ~roll tensai |
| 16:55.19 | ibot | ACTION stuffs tensai in a hamster ball and rolls it down a steep, snow-covered mountain |
| 16:55.47 | fozzmoo | Having advisors are an executive skill too... |
| 16:55.49 | elg | academic year at a glance calendar, 30 freaking dollars. |
| 16:55.53 | JoshH | maquis: i think if there is information that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that we are in imminent danger, and we must go to war, then it's perfectly ok for that information to be shared with the public. |
| 16:55.58 | elg | spreadsheet and two sheets of paper, priceless |
| 16:56.14 | fozzmoo | I mean, if FDR had listened to everything his advisors were advocating... the Great Depression might have lasted 50 years. |
| 16:56.16 | maquis | his comment in relation to the Iraq war was that he wasn't going to make a call as to whether it was justified or not, sinec he's no longer in the DoD, and he knows that the president has information that is not public. |
| 16:57.06 | maquis | this was somebody who was able to tell me about a situation where we were days away from a battle with N Korea, where he was able to go over and solve the problem before things got nasty |
| 16:57.08 | JoshH | it's one thing to keep information about a spy secret so the government can find out who is working with and so forth. |
| 16:57.24 | maquis | JoshH: that's not the only information you might need to keep secret |
| 16:57.27 | JoshH | but if something is worth starting a full blown war over, then we can know about it |
| 16:57.41 | maquis | JoshH: not if you need the element of surprise |
| 16:57.48 | JoshH | unless there is something truly extraordinary involved |
| 16:57.58 | JoshH | there was no element of surprise with iraq |
| 16:58.03 | JoshH | bush even said on tv when the invasion would start |
| 16:58.11 | fozzmoo | No surprise. Just shock. And awe. |
| 16:58.35 | *** join/#utah poole (n=poole@c-67-172-251-10.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:58.45 | maquis | my point is, we don't know everything that went into the decision, and i don't necessarily think we *ought* to know everything that goes into that decision. |
| 16:58.55 | JoshH | i actually did support the iraq war in the beginning, because i believed what we were told and shown about the WMD programs |
| 16:59.13 | maquis | i want to have time to do something besides read briefs on everything that has been learned |
| 17:00.16 | JoshH | but when things like the plame scandal, the statements from george tenet about bush ignoring contrary evidence, etc, i realized that bush and the ideologists he packed his administration with were just looking for any excuse to invade iraq for years |
| 17:00.34 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Me too. Now that I've learned more about our founding fathers and the constitution, I would never have supported the Iraq invasion knowing what I know now. |
| 17:01.31 | elg | i think we should force people to be president. a prerequisite should be they don't want to. bonus if we have to drug and incarcerate them. |
| 17:01.56 | elg | and i think we should start with tensai |
| 17:04.09 | tensai | well I opposed the iraq war before alls of you, so there |
| 17:05.37 | JoshH | i also didn't think the iraq war would last longer than world war 2 |
| 17:05.37 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@mail.FYRENICE.COM) |
| 17:05.37 | tensai | fozzmoo: http://www.facsnet.org/ |
| 17:06.09 | tensai | fozzmoo: there's a great audio presentation by robert kaufmann of boston u about oil prices |
| 17:08.49 | elg | what does he say? |
| 17:09.27 | elg | some of us are too reluctant to turn off norah jones to listen to someone talk |
| 17:11.24 | fozzmoo | eh |
| 17:11.25 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 17:16.56 | tensai | well I'm not done listening to it yet |
| 17:18.19 | tensai | one key point is that the oil market is a global one so you can't target oil to a region. so say we add another 1 mil barrels per day of oil in the US. it's essentially the same as adding it elsewhere. |
| 17:20.09 | elg | except for the bit about who gets rich |
| 17:21.21 | fozzmoo | A guy commented on my blog last night and made some good observations about oil prices based on what happened during the Carter years. |
| 17:21.28 | elg | and which species becomes extinct because of discarded workers' boots |
| 17:22.57 | tensai | this guy talks about oil prices over the last century, so he may address the same points |
| 17:25.28 | tensai | he debunks the theory that environmental regulations have caused a drop in refining capacity |
| 17:25.32 | tensai | the same behavior has occurred around the world and environmental policies are not consistent, so something else is the cause |
| 17:26.21 | elg | sounds like no conspiracy theory is safe around this guy. |
| 17:30.14 | tensai | he's a total wet blanket |
| 17:35.44 | tensai | he's got some interesting stuff on his own site too. http://www.bu.edu/cees/people/faculty/kaufmann/index.html |
| 17:35.48 | brac | [CEES - People - Faculty - Robert Kaufmann] |
| 17:44.34 | Sargun | http://www.lhcountdown.com |
| 17:50.37 | maquis | wants to curl up with a good fountain pen, her notebook, and a blanket. |
| 17:52.56 | *** join/#utah gshipley (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-98298484aab924b6) |
| 18:00.51 | bonez45 | I am listening to this audio track about oil prices .. very interesting |
| 18:04.40 | elg | maquis: you want to draw your blanket with a fountain pen? |
| 18:05.32 | elg | Sargun: LHC == doomsday? |
| 18:06.53 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 18:12.32 | mrpull | elg: there was a goofus on Coast to Coast AM the other day that proposed that it might make very small black holes that will eventually make the earth collapse on itself |
| 18:12.54 | mrpull | gotta love midnight radio |
| 18:13.01 | elg | yeah i'd heard something like that |
| 18:13.03 | levi | Well, there is a very small probability that it *will* create mini-black holes. |
| 18:13.31 | elg | i'm sure someone could think up dozens of ways that it would rip apart spacetime and put the earth/universe in danger of obliteration |
| 18:13.45 | elg | i'm just wondering if I need to go rent that movie I've been meaning to watch... |
| 18:14.14 | mrpull | he suggested we'd better warn our future kids and grandkids that the earth is going to turn to some previously only theoretical type of matter that will ensure their destruction. |
| 18:14.56 | elg | can we warn our present kids? |
| 18:15.04 | levi | But the mini-black holes would evaporate so fast that you'd barely be able to detect them. |
| 18:15.22 | mrpull | elg: more exciting to warn kids that haven't been born yet |
| 18:15.36 | elg | they can hear us through the black holes then? |
| 18:16.01 | mrpull | levi: UNLESS they (unbeknownst to the silly physicists) settle to the CORE OF THE EARTH! |
| 18:16.12 | mrpull | elg: something like that |
| 18:16.15 | levi | Some of the wackier possibilities include destruction of the entire universe. |
| 18:16.27 | levi | So eventual destruction of the planet ain't nothin'. |
| 18:16.34 | mrpull | bring it on. I could use a little universal destruction right about now. |
| 18:18.12 | levi | Me too. |
| 18:18.15 | findlay | hello |
| 18:43.55 | *** join/#utah Cyberkruz (n=Cyberkru@75.148.88.37) |
| 18:51.57 | levi | elg: Accountability in business executives is often sorely lacking as well. |
| 18:54.15 | elg | all relative |
| 18:54.19 | findlay | ~destroy |
| 18:54.30 | elg | perhaps a successful enterpeneur |
| 18:54.40 | elg | or an acrobat |
| 18:54.58 | elg | someone who can't escape accountability in the school of hard knocks |
| 18:55.02 | findlay | ~destroy the universe |
| 18:55.03 | ibot | no |
| 18:55.30 | elg | ibot, do you recognize your own mortality? |
| 18:55.30 | ibot | yes, I recognize your own mortality. |
| 19:03.14 | findlay | levi: one of the problems with assigning CAS assignments in a math class is that in order to do anything interesting you have to know that particular CAS syntax and if the students don't know it already that effectively becomes part of the course and I don't think math classes should spend time on stuff like that unless there is a clear and significant motivation, mainly that it is an applied sort of class |
| 19:03.46 | findlay | the same goes for teaching graphing^WTI calculators |
| 19:03.54 | levi | findlay: Yup, that's a bit of a problem. |
| 19:04.25 | findlay | oh come on, you're not supposed to agree with me that easily |
| 19:04.28 | levi | elg: I mean, the Enron guys didn't face a lot of accountability. |
| 19:05.00 | levi | findlay: I was busy looking at the slides from that talk tensai mentioned. |
| 19:10.54 | elg | well i'm not talking about legal accountability so much as accountability to the real world. the real world doesn't just hand you (or your company) money just because you're in management |
| 19:11.16 | elg | meaning, if you don't run your business into the ground |
| 19:11.25 | elg | then you win |
| 19:11.38 | elg | and if you don't win, your business runs you into the ground |
| 19:11.55 | findlay | ~win |
| 19:11.56 | ibot | well, win is lose. |
| 19:14.09 | levi | elg: Except for the kinds of executives that have golden parachutes. |
| 19:14.40 | unum | if you are a big enough company the government will bale you out because they can't have that many people go unemployed |
| 19:15.07 | elg | yeah, i backpedal there. obviously executives often (usually) don't face the real world in their personal finances |
| 19:15.19 | levi | Some people can run a company into the ground, leave with a huge bonus, and move on to making even more money elsewhere. |
| 19:15.42 | elg | obviously one with personal accountability is better, but regardless one that can successfully run a business has some skills that would be valuable |
| 19:15.52 | levi | Yeah, I agree. |
| 19:16.13 | elg | run business into the ground and move to the next doesn't count. :) |
| 19:22.26 | Tene_ | http://gist.github.com/ -- pretty cool |
| 19:24.57 | mrpull | Tene_: is that just another pastebin? what is it? |
| 19:25.14 | Tene_ | pastebin that gives you a git repo you can push to and pull from |
| 19:25.50 | mrpull | "Social Code Hosting" might have taken "social" too far. |
| 19:38.21 | mrpull | looks like (plug/slug/ubuntu utah's own) atoponce got mentioned on the linux haters blog. |
| 19:40.07 | encryptz | orly? |
| 19:40.09 | encryptz | checks |
| 19:40.28 | encryptz | heh |
| 19:40.29 | encryptz | lame |
| 19:44.34 | findlay | linux, what's that? |
| 19:45.32 | findlay | mrpull: what if your code wants to have a party? Are you denying your code rights? |
| 19:46.06 | mrpull | something tells me my code would be obnoxious at a party |
| 19:48.28 | unum | my code would arogantly snipe at everyone about all the "secrets" it knows |
| 19:49.35 | encryptz | so, i guess i need to add linux haters blog to my feed reader now |
| 19:51.17 | unum | needs to start blogging again |
| 19:51.38 | mrpull | encryptz: be happy you were a good example and not coined a freetard |
| 19:53.22 | encryptz | :) |
| 19:53.41 | encryptz | i got in 2 sections at the same time |
| 19:57.36 | mrpull | doh, I didn't see the second section :) |
| 20:05.30 | Sargun | The "Hardware: NYT Techie Night Life Reprogrammed" article on /. is one of the stupidest /. articles ever. |
| 20:05.36 | Sargun | I fear /. is going the way of digg. |
| 20:07.39 | findlay | I remember seeing once a slashdot article generator site |
| 20:07.47 | findlay | I wish I remembered the URL |
| 20:08.24 | jsmith | Sargun: Gee... wasn't it just a little while ago you said "Digg is going the way of /."? |
| 20:08.50 | Tene | jsmith: just do what I did and /ignore Sargun. |
| 20:08.54 | findlay | jsmith: they're following each other on a closed path |
| 20:09.11 | findlay | with negative orientation |
| 20:09.44 | findlay | hm, I believe that curves are orientable |
| 20:09.50 | Sargun | jsmith, I said (almost a year ago) that Digg is beginning to become like /. |
| 20:10.01 | Sargun | but then Digg turned into a "social media network" |
| 20:10.04 | findlay | can't think of a non-orientable closed curve |
| 20:11.27 | Sargun | Digg is now aimed at a general consumer, or at least it is marketing itself to a larger group of consumers |
| 20:21.00 | levi | Whee, my laptop survived a little drop off the end table onto carpet. |
| 20:21.55 | elg | alright. now try something higher and/or harder |
| 20:22.08 | elg | no pain no gain |
| 20:22.23 | levi | Well, this is a work laptop. |
| 20:22.39 | levi | So, that might be a good idea. Get me a newer, better one. ;) |
| 20:22.57 | elg | more pain, more gain? |
| 20:22.58 | levi | My attempts to pawn my kids off on relatives have failed. :( |
| 20:23.36 | elg | you need more relatives |
| 20:23.41 | elg | or fewer kids |
| 20:27.26 | findlay | you have not correctly applied the Lagrange principle |
| 20:27.27 | tensai | that's what kennels are for |
| 20:35.45 | *** join/#utah tawamudu (i=mallen@li27-101.members.linode.com) |
| 20:42.03 | levi | elg: I just need my wife to get better. |
| 20:44.08 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 20:45.23 | findlay | you both just need to learn the Lagrange duality in order to properly optimize your kids |
| 20:51.41 | elg | do you defragment your kids? |
| 20:52.26 | levi | I didn't realize they might be getting fragmented. Do you defragment yours? |
| 20:55.35 | elg | no they're more interestingfragmented |
| 21:20.49 | elg | huh |
| 21:20.59 | elg | gnuplot's name doesn't come from the FSF gnu |
| 21:21.11 | elg | "We settled on calling it gnuplot as a pun on a lame program at school that predated ours called ânewplotâ. |
| 21:21.11 | elg | It wasnât until a month later that we read Richard Stallmanâs Gnu Manifesto. That resonated with us and |
| 21:21.11 | elg | matched our thinking perfectly. The common name was simply a lucky coincidence. " |
| 21:22.06 | findlay | gnuplot roxorz |
| 21:29.12 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@mail.FYRENICE.COM) |
| 21:35.07 | unum | I think my netbook could take a pretty good fall |
| 21:35.16 | unum | the no real hard drive thing is a good thing |
| 21:35.27 | findlay | unum: mine already has |
| 21:35.28 | findlay | twice |
| 21:35.43 | findlay | one of them was onto concrete |
| 21:35.54 | findlay | but it was in the soft cover then |
| 21:35.56 | elg | i fell on concrete once |
| 21:36.06 | findlay | elg: how did you turn out? |
| 21:36.13 | elg | which time? |
| 21:36.16 | elg | once i broke my collarbone |
| 21:36.26 | findlay | did they ever try to take you in under warranty? |
| 21:36.46 | elg | extended warranty i think |
| 21:39.14 | unum | I need to get a case for mine |
| 21:39.20 | unum | findlay: any recommendations on cases |
| 21:39.31 | unum | and an adapter for the car |
| 21:40.52 | unum | hmmm shopacc has both and allows google check out |
| 21:41.06 | unum | <$10 each |
| 21:42.08 | findlay | unum: a hard case? |
| 21:42.16 | findlay | that's what I want |
| 21:42.28 | unum | why? |
| 21:42.42 | findlay | so I can treat it more roughly |
| 21:42.45 | elg | so he can throw his laptop on marble |
| 21:42.49 | findlay | right |
| 21:43.25 | findlay | I'm planning on making my own case out of .063" aluminum plate |
| 21:43.28 | unum | maybe I'll go that route :) |
| 21:43.40 | unum | not make my own... |
| 21:43.46 | findlay | something small and light |
| 21:43.58 | findlay | unum: good luck finding a case small enough |
| 21:44.09 | findlay | hasn't |
| 21:44.15 | unum | findlay: ya I can't find one either |
| 21:44.24 | unum | I think I'll get a soft case for now |
| 21:44.45 | findlay | what's wrong with the default one? |
| 21:47.25 | unum | default one? |
| 21:47.32 | unum | didn't get a case with his eeepc |
| 21:47.47 | unum | did you got one with yours? |
| 21:48.51 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=jphall@216.48.30.238) |
| 21:50.29 | findlay | really? |
| 21:50.32 | findlay | yeah, I did |
| 21:50.37 | findlay | you should call them about it |
| 21:51.13 | unum | which model did you get? |
| 21:51.23 | findlay | the 4g |
| 21:51.25 | findlay | black |
| 21:51.35 | unum | I got the 2g surf black |
| 21:51.50 | unum | I sent it back and they sent me a new one |
| 21:51.54 | findlay | maybe that's why? :) |
| 21:51.55 | unum | but the neither one had a case |
| 21:52.06 | findlay | hm |
| 21:54.47 | harleypig | so I finally volunteered for oscon ... hopefully the wire won't slice me in two, making a HUGE mess in the process. |
| 21:55.20 | unum | I bought a sleeve for it. I couldn't find a site that offered both a bag and a car charger. |
| 21:55.43 | unum | and I didn't want to buy from two sites. so I'll try the sleeve if I don't like it I'll giveit to my friend |
| 21:56.03 | unum | of course maybe if I search my packaging I'll find my sleeve :) |
| 21:57.12 | findlay | well mine came with something like a sleeve. I guess bag is too glorified of a term for it |
| 22:01.24 | unum | I wanted to get a bag I could put a mouse,a cat5 cable, and the power adapters in |
| 22:04.01 | findlay | a mouse5? |
| 22:22.54 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@mail.FYRENICE.COM) |
| 22:23.17 | bonez45 | anyone here familiar with the Palm Treo 680? good? Bad? ugly? |
| 22:23.59 | unum | findlay:I'm going to get a little bluetooth usb mouse for it |
| 22:25.20 | findlay | well, keep it away from the cat |
| 22:25.35 | unum | cats.... |
| 22:25.49 | findlay | 5 cats |
| 22:25.54 | findlay | or cat5, rather |
| 22:26.08 | unum | ah there are lots of cats around my place |
| 22:27.44 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 22:27.44 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 22:28.47 | bonez45 | so, no reviews? no body here using a Treo 680? |
| 22:29.48 | Tene | I've got a 650. The 680 is interesting. Don't know much about it, though. |
| 22:31.05 | bonez45 | I notice the 680 screen is 320 x 320...same size I believe, as my m505...but much brighter and more vivid |
| 22:31.11 | bonez45 | while the 650 screen is smaller |
| 22:32.20 | bonez45 | I notice the 750 screen is just 240 x 240...why the hell do they make the screens smaller... |
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| 22:44.21 | tensai | bonez45: smaller screen, longer battery life I assume |
| 22:44.29 | tensai | cheaper to manufacture too |
| 22:44.48 | bonez45 | but poorer user experience.. |
| 22:45.11 | bonez45 | I'd rather buy 2 or 3 chargers/sync cradles and keep them around.. and keep it charged and have more screen space |
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| 22:46.57 | tensai | so don't buy the smaller one. obviously not everyone else's needs match yours. |
| 22:47.45 | bonez45 | ok.. |
| 22:48.03 | bonez45 | I can upgrade and get that one for free, after a rebate.. so I am thinking of that option. |
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| 22:54.19 | mrpull | (warning MS question) what was WSUS called before the name change? |
| 23:10.31 | tristanbob_ | http://www.infoworld.com/slideshow/2008/08/168-best_of_open_so-1.html |
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