| 00:00.08 | sontek | hes mheath! |
| 00:02.52 | *** join/#utah tonedevf (n=dave@post.tonedb.org) |
| 00:02.56 | nick125 | Anyone here know of a simple network-based queuing system that has clients for python? |
| 00:04.00 | findlay | haha |
| 00:04.13 | nick125 | Something like..lwqueue |
| 00:04.23 | nick125 | but not broken |
| 00:32.39 | Sargun | nick125, network-based queueing? |
| 00:32.44 | Sargun | Tell me more. |
| 00:32.47 | Sargun | Like Spread? |
| 00:32.51 | nick125 | Sargun: yeah...I decided to screw it and write my own |
| 00:33.24 | Sargun | how are you architecting it |
| 00:33.27 | Sargun | what bus are you using |
| 00:33.57 | nick125 | Sargun: Let me give you a hint: XMLRPC and python list objects |
| 00:34.33 | Sargun | Did I ever tell you're a sicko |
| 00:34.44 | nick125 | it works for what I need |
| 00:37.49 | Sargun | nick125, have you looked at rabbitmq |
| 00:38.35 | nick125 | "enterprise messaging" |
| 00:38.36 | nick125 | closes the tab |
| 00:39.16 | Sargun | I've used it |
| 00:39.18 | Sargun | its...decent |
| 00:39.39 | Tene | Sargun: Mellence is not me. Why did you think he was? |
| 00:39.53 | Sargun | It was possible |
| 00:39.57 | nick125 | forces Sargun to use Windows Server 2003 with Java and MSSQL/ODBC |
| 00:40.42 | Mellence | Does anyone think my name could be androgynous?(Btw, I am a male, so everyone was right who said he) |
| 00:41.07 | nick125 | Sargun: That Enterprise enough for you? Huh?! HUH?! |
| 00:41.40 | Mellence | ~lart Sargun |
| 00:41.40 | ibot | shoots Sargun in the head |
| 00:41.41 | *** part/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 00:41.41 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 00:41.49 | Mellence | aww, that lart was boring! |
| 00:42.06 | Sargun | Uhm, your name is gender neutral. |
| 00:42.13 | Sargun | Then again I've seen females with the nick "jack" |
| 00:42.38 | Mellence | Ok, because my name comes from one of my World of Warcraft characters, a female warlock. |
| 00:42.48 | Mellence | It was randomly generated :) |
| 00:44.38 | Sargun | uhm |
| 00:44.46 | Sargun | Why are you playing a female warlock |
| 00:45.05 | nick125 | and why are you playing World of Warcraft? |
| 00:45.41 | Mellence | My brother dared me to make the female warlock, and I play WoW because it's fun. Although after installing linux, I haven't played it in a while. |
| 00:46.10 | Mellence | Linux has semi-converted me. |
| 00:46.45 | Sargun | uhm |
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| 00:53.51 | *** join/#utah trixtur (n=trixtur@166-70-62-135.ip.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 01:00.16 | Sargun | Anthony :-( |
| 01:32.22 | Sargun | 24. In a Class B address, which of the octets are the host address portion and are assigned locally? |
| 01:32.29 | Sargun | What ever happened to CIDR? |
| 01:36.38 | sinuhe | Sargun: What ever happened to it? |
| 01:37.06 | sinuhe | The class system isn't used anymore, and under ipv6, CIDR is all there is. |
| 01:37.22 | Sargun | that's part of the cisco test |
| 01:37.28 | sinuhe | Oh |
| 01:37.42 | sinuhe | Your question/comment makes more sense now. :-) |
| 01:37.45 | Sargun | :-( |
| 01:37.47 | Sargun | cries |
| 01:37.49 | peno | cisco exams don't use cidr. yet. |
| 01:38.01 | sinuhe | peno: I think that was Sargun's point. |
| 01:38.12 | peno | since ios doesn't support cidr in cli. |
| 01:38.17 | Sargun | Why not? |
| 01:38.23 | Sargun | when was CIDR invented? |
| 01:38.34 | peno | wish I knew. it's rather annoying. |
| 01:39.06 | sinuhe | 1993 |
| 01:39.08 | sinuhe | I think |
| 01:39.14 | Sargun | 35. Proprietary applications use which kind of port? |
| 01:39.14 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:39.14 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:39.14 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:39.20 | Sargun | they can use any of the above |
| 01:39.31 | sinuhe | Based on rfc 1518, anyways |
| 01:39.34 | peno | some of the gui's accept cidr, but they parse that into a subnet mask. |
| 01:39.38 | sinuhe | That was the first rfc for it. |
| 01:40.11 | sinuhe | Sargun: registered |
| 01:40.16 | Sargun | I know |
| 01:40.22 | Sargun | but any of the above |
| 01:40.26 | sinuhe | Interesting |
| 01:40.28 | Sargun | Is the real-world answer |
| 01:40.51 | nick125 | yeah, there's nothing enforcing it |
| 01:40.57 | peno | but it's not the "cisco" answer. |
| 01:41.30 | Sargun | iHateCisco |
| 01:42.25 | peno | heh. I just hate their exams. |
| 01:42.39 | levi | Good evening. |
| 01:43.54 | Sargun | I hate most cisco equipment too |
| 01:46.15 | levi | I hate most Sarguns. |
| 01:46.33 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:46.36 | Sargun | I said: to choose the path over which data is sent to its destination |
| 01:46.36 | peno | cisco equipment pays my bills. |
| 01:46.44 | Sargun | They say: to provide network attachment to the end systems and intelligent switching of the data within the local network |
| 01:46.51 | peno | yup |
| 01:46.53 | Sargun | peno, I work on it all day long |
| 01:47.04 | Sargun | we use distribution switches |
| 01:47.41 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.57 | Sargun | There is ring, double ring, and tree |
| 01:50.57 | Sargun | Maybe I should get a CCNA |
| 01:53.10 | levi | Man, the interns must be running KJZZ today. |
| 02:12.40 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=joeg@75-169-39-184.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:22.11 | mrpull-x | levi: what's up with KJZZ? I wish the would broadcast more HD :-/ |
| 02:22.17 | mrpull-x | s/the/they/ |
| 02:22.54 | findlay | maybe they moved to ID? |
| 02:23.03 | levi | I dunno. My guess is it's just a low-budget station. |
| 02:23.08 | findlay | I just climbed a rope |
| 02:23.11 | mrpull-x | peno: what version of IOS are you using that doesn't support CIDR? |
| 02:23.17 | findlay | now the skin on my hands is raw :( |
| 02:24.11 | levi | findlay: Why did you climb a rope? |
| 02:24.47 | peno | mrpull-x: Version 12.4(11)XW3 |
| 02:25.24 | peno | (config-if)#ip add 10.0.0.1 ? |
| 02:25.24 | peno | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:26.40 | levi | Hmm, Stargate Atlantis is on ch 58, whatever that is. |
| 02:35.39 | findlay | levi: just now |
| 02:41.42 | levi | findlay: 'just now' is not a very informative answer to the question 'why?' |
| 02:56.11 | levi | Huh, a new Mummy movie. |
| 03:01.55 | *** join/#utah Mellence (n=michael@72.8.109.63) |
| 03:09.41 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 03:09.41 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 03:13.25 | findlay | s/why/when/ |
| 03:13.34 | findlay | levi: for fun |
| 03:17.05 | levi | findlay: Where was the rope? |
| 03:17.19 | levi | And was there any jazz music playing while you were climbing? |
| 03:18.27 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@kaptah.deevans.net) |
| 03:20.22 | fozzmoo | levi: Yeah- the rumor is that Brandon Fraser doesn't get paid anymore... that his pricetag has sunk so low BECAUSE of the Mummy franchise, he's financing them himself. |
| 03:22.22 | goozbach | it's Sunday, 11:30pm. Guess where goozbach is. |
| 03:23.57 | goozbach | if you answered "standing in the datacenter trying to piece together what is happening to his servers" you are correct! |
| 03:24.49 | nick125 | goozbach: What happened? :/ |
| 03:25.15 | goozbach | nick125: I don't know |
| 03:25.39 | goozbach | all of my cgi servers (old hackish legacy code) keep falling down |
| 03:26.01 | goozbach | apache fills up 8G of RAM, then 8G of Swap, then they DIE! |
| 03:26.25 | goozbach | takes em nearly an hour to recover if I pull them out of the load balanced pool. |
| 03:36.08 | *** join/#utah [1]HCDemon (n=ECRS401@c-67-182-197-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:39.33 | findlay | levi: next door. They were playing Mozart's 40th symphonie |
| 03:40.03 | levi | There was a rope next door? |
| 03:40.09 | levi | This is all too bizarre for me. |
| 03:40.13 | findlay | in their yard |
| 03:40.21 | findlay | with a tire at the bottom of it |
| 03:40.37 | findlay | and the top ended at a tree |
| 03:40.47 | findlay | seems to be a customary setup |
| 03:41.23 | findlay | levi: you're too abstract for normal life, I guess :) |
| 03:41.35 | findlay | you never had a tire experince as a kid? |
| 03:41.38 | findlay | :) |
| 03:41.49 | findlay | s/tire/tire swing/ |
| 03:55.40 | goozbach | korea treating you well jsmith-korea? |
| 03:55.54 | jsmith-korea | goozbach: So far, so good. |
| 03:56.11 | jsmith-korea | I'm halfway through the first day of class, and the students are understanding me, and I'm understanding them |
| 04:01.05 | goozbach | that's good I suppose |
| 04:01.41 | goozbach | me, I'm stuck in the datacenter cause I can't figure out why these servers won't stay running. |
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| 04:28.55 | Sargun | Korea? |
| 04:28.56 | Sargun | Whoa. |
| 04:29.02 | Sargun | goozbach, gremlins. |
| 04:29.53 | goozbach | Sargun: yeah 6-7 year old code *ALWAYS* has gremlins |
| 04:30.08 | goozbach | it's a shame that it's such a popular feature. |
| 04:30.25 | Sargun | Whoa, old code = bad code. |
| 04:30.27 | goozbach | if it were up to me, I'd have just terminated that functionality months ago |
| 04:30.55 | goozbach | Sargun: old code (as written by the previous developers here) *DOES* = bad code. |
| 04:31.44 | goozbach | there's only three people on the staff who knew the people who wrote this stuff. none of them is on the tech team, only in management. |
| 04:32.27 | Sargun | Ouch. |
| 04:32.32 | Sargun | What is the code's functionality. |
| 04:33.13 | goozbach | calendar events |
| 04:33.51 | goozbach | most of the links from this page: http://wsbradio.com/event_guide/calendar.html |
| 04:34.13 | sontek | I think old code usually means bad code =) Even when I look back at code I wrote 2 weeks ago, I usually see a better way to do it |
| 04:34.25 | sontek | developers are always learning |
| 04:34.36 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:34.46 | goozbach | one giant table, no indexes |
| 04:35.30 | nick125 | wow |
| 04:35.36 | nick125 | no wonder the server commits suicide. |
| 04:35.38 | goozbach | just changed the mysql tables to innodb so we could have transactions. |
| 04:36.12 | fozzmoo | goozbach: If that doesn't help,try changing the mysql tables to postgresql tables |
| 04:36.29 | Sargun | Try changing them to Oracle tables! |
| 04:36.30 | goozbach | we have pages with links and links which require really expensive table-scan queries. |
| 04:36.30 | Sargun | :-P |
| 04:36.37 | sontek | fozzmoo: thats what I was thinking!! |
| 04:36.50 | goozbach | one of those pages gets crawled, and it's game over man |
| 04:36.57 | Sargun | Oracle Enterprise databases can help you. |
| 04:37.09 | nick125 | Sargun: you're saying that word again |
| 04:37.10 | goozbach | if only I could build a big postgres cluster... |
| 04:37.16 | Sargun | ENTERPRISE! |
| 04:37.55 | goozbach | yeah, look at this page: http://wsbradio.com/cgi-bin/events.cgi?type=date&string=2008-07-30 |
| 04:38.13 | nick125 | goozbach: you could setup a nice robots.txt for that...but.. |
| 04:38.32 | goozbach | there isn't any caching at all on the creation of this page, it has to be recreated *EVERY* request |
| 04:38.45 | nick125 | goozbach: Does it NEED to be recreated? |
| 04:39.01 | goozbach | nick125: the data changes at the *MOST* every hour |
| 04:39.13 | goozbach | most of the data changes approx every day |
| 04:39.21 | goozbach | so the potential for caching is there. |
| 04:39.29 | goozbach | just kinda a PITA |
| 04:39.37 | nick125 | at least do something like..Squid. |
| 04:39.54 | goozbach | squid is causing us all sorts of other problems |
| 04:40.03 | goozbach | we're working on removing it from our infrastructure |
| 04:40.21 | goozbach | we may go to a varnish system, but who knows. |
| 04:40.22 | fozzmoo | Ooh. Clark Howard. |
| 04:40.25 | Sargun | that doesn't look so bad |
| 04:40.40 | Sargun | goozbach, would you like new hardware |
| 04:41.03 | nick125 | varnish isn't too bad. |
| 04:41.10 | goozbach | Sargun: this is all on new hardware |
| 04:41.30 | goozbach | brand new poweredge 1950's |
| 04:42.12 | goozbach | 2-quad core cpus, 8G ECC RAM, all backed up by a NetAPP FAS270 |
| 04:42.17 | Sargun | new software? |
| 04:42.17 | RyanE | I didn't know they even *had* poweredge servers in the 1950's! |
| 04:42.30 | Sargun | RyanE, hahaha. |
| 04:42.32 | Sargun | ~lart findlay |
| 04:42.32 | ibot | explains, ever so gently, that if findlay doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
| 04:42.38 | Sargun | err |
| 04:42.40 | Sargun | ~lart rsimpkins |
| 04:42.40 | ibot | whips rsimpkins with a wet and grimy noodle just because |
| 04:42.41 | Sargun | ~lart RyanE |
| 04:42.41 | ibot | declares RyanE a moron |
| 04:42.49 | Sargun | That was difficult. |
| 04:42.52 | RyanE | appropriate |
| 04:42.57 | RyanE | :) |
| 04:43.13 | goozbach | Sargun: yeah, I would *LOVE* new software, however it's going to probally be 2 man/months of development to replace all this stuff. |
| 04:44.12 | Sargun | uhm |
| 04:44.22 | Sargun | build it ontop of pylons |
| 04:48.11 | goozbach | pylons *SHUDDER* |
| 04:48.30 | goozbach | when we rebuild it it will be built on top of Mason |
| 04:49.12 | nick125 | Django would be a good option :p |
| 04:52.53 | fozzmoo | :-D |
| 04:52.59 | fozzmoo | Go Perl. |
| 04:53.03 | Sargun | eww |
| 04:53.06 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Did you see my blog? |
| 04:54.08 | fozzmoo | s/blog/Perl blog/ |
| 04:54.36 | goozbach | fozzmoo: perhaps, I've been in "peruse" mode as far as openclue goes lately |
| 04:54.40 | goozbach | I'll dig further |
| 04:54.53 | fozzmoo | I just posted it last night. |
| 04:55.12 | fozzmoo | Looks like I'm #2 on openclue right now |
| 04:56.10 | goozbach | just read it |
| 04:56.13 | goozbach | love cgi.pm |
| 04:56.37 | fozzmoo | Well, it's classic. :) |
| 04:56.42 | goozbach | my nagios board is clear now |
| 04:56.50 | fozzmoo | wish I could say the same. |
| 04:56.53 | goozbach | time to go home before I do anything to change that :) |
| 04:57.30 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 04:58.02 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Would appreciate a critique, but I know you're... time-constrained. |
| 04:58.29 | fozzmoo | Redbeard posted a semi-Perl blog too... |
| 04:58.34 | fozzmoo | It's just a weird blog. |
| 04:58.37 | findlay | goozbach: why mason and not catalyst or something like that? |
| 04:58.52 | fozzmoo | Food, coding, bloging, and teaching all in one post. |
| 04:58.55 | Sargun | Perl is evel. |
| 04:59.09 | fozzmoo | s/evel/eval/ |
| 04:59.15 | findlay | ~sontek++ #for always learning |
| 04:59.38 | findlay | ~eval Sargun |
| 05:00.05 | Sargun | ~rm findlay |
| 05:00.05 | ibot | findlay is an unperson |
| 05:00.35 | findlay | ~feynman |
| 05:01.07 | findlay | ~feynman $sargun is <reply> Surely you're joking Mr. $sargun! |
| 05:01.07 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 05:01.12 | findlay | ~feynman Sargun |
| 05:01.13 | ibot | Surely you're joking Mr. Sargun! |
| 05:02.28 | *** join/#utah Midorikawa (n=insanemo@oldoffice.bluehost.com) |
| 05:23.33 | Mellence | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJOS0sV2a24 |
| 05:23.43 | Mellence | Awesome video of the author of XKCD |
| 05:43.04 | *** join/#utah Linwee (n=Linwee--@75-169-129-221.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:43.14 | Linwee | waves |
| 05:44.14 | Linwee | quiet... |
| 05:45.26 | *** join/#utah Linwee- (n=Linwee--@75-169-129-221.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:48.29 | Sargun | Question 11 of 34 |
| 05:48.29 | Sargun | How many bits are in an IP address? |
| 05:48.36 | Sargun | I might want to kill Cisco |
| 05:50.53 | nick125 | Sargun: That's iffy. |
| 05:51.12 | nick125 | they don't mention whether it's IPv4 or IPv6 |
| 05:52.17 | Mellence | Sargun, are you doing CCNA Certification? |
| 05:54.21 | findlay | my guess is |
| 05:54.27 | findlay | 1337 |
| 06:02.21 | goozbach | well, that lasted long |
| 06:02.23 | Mellence | 1337 is the answer to everything |
| 06:02.30 | goozbach | got home and the pager started going off again. |
| 06:02.40 | nick125 | goozbach: ouch |
| 06:03.35 | goozbach | findlay: mason is what everything is built in. We're looking at catalyst for future projects |
| 06:05.33 | jsmith-korea | goozbach: Still fighting the apps in the data center, eh? |
| 06:05.41 | jsmith-korea | feels sorry for goozbach |
| 06:15.00 | Sargun | Mellence, maybe. If I get lazy. |
| 06:15.05 | Sargun | err, bored. |
| 06:15.52 | goozbach | jsmith-korea: yup |
| 06:15.58 | goozbach | stupid legacy crap |
| 06:22.15 | goozbach | a load average of over 100 |
| 06:22.20 | goozbach | that's awesome |
| 06:22.30 | goozbach | all three servers are at load average of 100 |
| 06:22.43 | goozbach | which means I need 300 servers to manage this load |
| 06:23.26 | nick125 | goozbach: Where's the load coming from? |
| 06:23.39 | goozbach | nick125: I'm trying to figure that out |
| 06:23.57 | goozbach | it seems to be coming from one of our vendors who is crawling the site |
| 06:24.08 | nick125 | block them |
| 06:24.52 | goozbach | not sure I am supposed to |
| 06:25.10 | goozbach | I'm doing some traffic analisys now. |
| 06:26.26 | goozbach | something's making the servers swap out for some reason |
| 06:36.01 | jsmith-korea | Gotta love those swap gremlins |
| 06:36.20 | jsmith-korea | (you know, the ones that only come out at night) |
| 06:36.58 | Sargun | goozbach, we have some servers at work that keep a load average of over 1000 |
| 06:37.03 | findlay | goozbach: turn off swap |
| 06:37.10 | findlay | Sargun: wow |
| 06:37.35 | findlay | Sargun: is that typical for a high traffic web server or something? |
| 06:37.47 | Sargun | findlay, load average 1+ for every client |
| 06:37.54 | Sargun | its typical for chinese written code |
| 06:37.59 | Sargun | made in china |
| 06:38.20 | findlay | haha |
| 06:38.34 | goozbach | findlay: when I turn off swap the fall over sooner |
| 06:38.37 | findlay | goozbach: echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness |
| 06:38.46 | findlay | sad |
| 06:38.49 | Sargun | but more hard drive space |
| 06:38.51 | Sargun | add more swap |
| 06:38.57 | findlay | buy more RAM :) |
| 06:39.47 | findlay | Sargun: so in a multi cpu system, the load is normalized to a single CPU? |
| 06:40.04 | Sargun | 8 CPUs |
| 06:42.06 | nick125 | findlay: load isn't normalized - i.e., 8.00 on a 8 core machine is the same as 1.00 on a 1 core machine |
| 06:42.52 | nick125 | well...something like that. |
| 06:43.17 | jsmith-korea | hates "CPU load" as a measurement, because there are all kinds of false positives |
| 06:43.31 | goozbach | so a load of 100 is only an eighth of the problem |
| 06:43.42 | goozbach | I need an eighth of 300 servers |
| 06:46.29 | jsmith-korea | goozbach: Yes, assuming that you never want more than one process waiting for CPU time |
| 06:47.23 | jsmith-korea | goozbach: Often times, I find it's I/O blocking that causes more problems than CPU load. There are just too many things than can cause artificially high CPU load that aren't really causing a performance hit. |
| 06:47.51 | infotron | ~lart D state |
| 06:47.52 | ibot | moos at D state |
| 06:48.01 | Sargun | Yes, spawning 2 threads per connections |
| 06:48.02 | Sargun | is bad |
| 06:49.19 | goozbach | jsmith-korea: I know |
| 06:49.26 | goozbach | I'm just at a loss now |
| 06:49.33 | goozbach | shooting at shadows |
| 06:49.52 | jsmith-korea | Ugh... I hate that, especially after midnight |
| 06:50.24 | goozbach | it's after 2am now |
| 06:51.07 | Sargun | uhm |
| 06:51.07 | jsmith-korea | Sounds like an epic game of Whack-a-mole :-( |
| 06:51.23 | Sargun | goozbach, start rewriting parts |
| 06:51.25 | Sargun | of the app |
| 06:51.29 | sontek | this weekend was officially the laziest weekend I've had since high school :P |
| 06:51.34 | Sargun | Hire two programmers |
| 06:51.38 | sontek | I seriously watched tv *all* weekend |
| 06:56.47 | *** join/#utah Mellence (n=michael@72.8.109.63) |
| 06:58.20 | goozbach | this is interesting... my robots.txt file isn't working |
| 07:00.55 | Sargun | hi Mellence |
| 07:01.04 | Sargun | goozbach, a lot of engines don't respect them |
| 07:02.00 | Sargun | goozbach, Have you looked at doing applications level modifcations? |
| 07:02.04 | Sargun | What's the bottleneck? |
| 07:03.05 | Sargun | mysql caching? |
| 07:04.36 | jsmith-korea | goozbach: Is the client in question actually *reading* the robots.txt file? |
| 07:13.23 | goozbach | jsmith-korea: no idea |
| 07:13.30 | goozbach | but it doesn't hurt to verify |
| 07:13.55 | goozbach | er make it work |
| 07:14.18 | goozbach | applications level modifications? -- parse error |
| 07:14.29 | goozbach | modify the application layer? |
| 07:14.44 | goozbach | like "fix bugs and stuff" |
| 07:14.45 | goozbach | ? |
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| 13:15.36 | Sargun_screen | Wow |
| 13:15.46 | Sargun_screen | CCIE seems to be a Cisco marketing tool. |
| 13:15.50 | Sargun_screen | CCIE/CCNA |
| 13:16.01 | Sargun_screen | I HATE Cisco. |
| 13:16.23 | sinuhe | Sargun: Are you still going off about Cisco? (Not that I blame you.) |
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| 13:47.50 | Sargun_screen | sinuhe: I continued reading some material right now |
| 13:48.32 | Sargun_screen | and some general from info gartner media regarding the "Value" of a CCNA |
| 13:48.46 | Sargun_screen | and CCIE, it is calling it a "general network certification" |
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| 13:48.56 | Sargun_screen | and that's what most big companies will look at it as |
| 13:49.06 | Sargun_screen | It is really a Cisco-view of the world. |
| 13:49.20 | Sargun_screen | Then again, vendors are the only one who can do this. |
| 13:49.35 | Sargun_screen | LPI was never as successful as RHC(?) |
| 13:50.36 | Sargun_screen | Then again, LPI has some major issues |
| 13:50.57 | Sargun_screen | What do you think about certifications, sinuhe? |
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| 14:18.53 | sinuhe | thinks that the RHCE is the bomb |
| 14:20.23 | sinuhe | The RHCE is not a useless test that when you fail, you get nothing out of it. You can learn from the exam, and get an idea exactly where you are, even if you did fail. It's very real world. |
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| 14:25.14 | Sargun_screen | RHCE is cool because its hands on |
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| 15:58.45 | findlay | somebody set us up the RHCE bomb |
| 15:59.55 | goozbach | s/us up/up us/ |
| 16:00.04 | goozbach | wants his RHCA |
| 16:00.37 | findlay | s/us up/up us/ |
| 16:03.15 | findlay | Sargun: but didn't you know cisco rules the world? I find your lack of faith in magnacorp disturbing |
| 16:03.36 | Sargun | goozbach, RHCA is still ~25k right? |
| 16:04.05 | unum | what software should I use to monitor if a system is up |
| 16:04.11 | Sargun | Nagios |
| 16:04.21 | Sargun | Also, you can use these things called "users" |
| 16:04.22 | Sargun | :-P |
| 16:05.23 | levi | findlay: I didn't have it in my mental picture that you were in a neighborhood of houses, and so the idea of a rope on a tree seemed pretty bizarre. |
| 16:06.47 | unum | the problem is I don't like to read my work email when I'm not at work |
| 16:07.27 | unum | and I'm not giving these users my cell phone |
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| 16:10.29 | mrpull- | unum: i've used a package in the past that is simpler than nagios, but powerful / flexible enough to be a fairly sturdy monitoring app. See: http://argus.tcp4me.com/ |
| 16:10.33 | brac | [Argus - System and Network Monitoring Software] |
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| 16:11.00 | mrpull- | the website sucks, the UI sucks, but it is easy and reliable |
| 16:11.10 | unum | argus might be more what I'm looking for |
| 16:11.35 | unum | I'm just worried about one machine. that happened to fail over the weekend |
| 16:11.48 | unum | the users of the other servers have my cell phone |
| 16:12.17 | mrpull- | it's a good thing to know servers are down before users start calling :) |
| 16:14.24 | mrpull- | one of the things that appeals to me about argus is the config files nest and inherit nicely |
| 16:14.44 | unum | maybe I should just write a script that runs ping and parses the results |
| 16:14.47 | mrpull- | also, the alarms are flexible |
| 16:15.57 | mrpull- | nah, get started with a simple monitoring tool and start building on it |
| 16:16.34 | goozbach | use nagios |
| 16:16.41 | mrpull- | add other hosts, start monitoring more services, automate responses ( website hung? autorestart httpd before sending an alarm) |
| 16:16.47 | goozbach | once you get over thte learning curve it's smooth sailing |
| 16:17.01 | goozbach | and if you need it to do more powerfull things, the capibilty is there |
| 16:17.16 | mrpull- | remembers what a PITA it was to get Netsaint running |
| 16:17.29 | mrpull- | it's much easier now |
| 16:17.37 | Sargun | What is netsaint called now? |
| 16:17.44 | unum | debian wanted to install 20 dependencies |
| 16:17.48 | mrpull- | nagios |
| 16:17.53 | Sargun | ahh... |
| 16:17.54 | Sargun | yeah |
| 16:18.06 | Sargun | Wait, what was BB (big brother) called |
| 16:22.37 | mrpull- | i never used big brother... i think there was a big sister too |
| 16:22.44 | mrpull- | BB was commercial if i remember correctly |
| 16:23.06 | goozbach | big brother -- you can't afford it |
| 16:23.16 | goozbach | big brother is commercial |
| 16:23.28 | goozbach | it's really cool, really powerfull, but dang expensive |
| 16:26.25 | Sargun | goozbach, I use it at work. I hate it |
| 16:26.41 | levi | Sargun hates everything, though. |
| 16:26.49 | Sargun | Not everything |
| 16:26.57 | Sargun | I like....Nokia |
| 16:27.26 | unum | hates nokia |
| 16:27.32 | Sargun | hates unum |
| 16:27.33 | unum | I want my motorola back :p |
| 16:27.34 | Sargun | ;-P |
| 16:27.41 | Sargun | Motorola what |
| 16:28.09 | unum | I liked the software on my old motorola better than the software on my nokia |
| 16:28.17 | unum | buys really cheap phones |
| 16:32.51 | goozbach | nagios is starting to grow on me |
| 16:33.12 | goozbach | now if I could only make my servers behave, so that nagios wouldn't page me EVERY FREAKING DAY!!! I'd be golden. |
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| 16:37.23 | fozzmoo | I was up last night tending to Nagios alerts. |
| 16:37.42 | fozzmoo | I did a software update on a box that is an nrpe gateway |
| 16:39.17 | Sargun | Wow, I pissed off Exchange |
| 16:39.24 | Sargun | I deleted a message like 8 times |
| 16:39.33 | Sargun | which apparently causes a message to get bigger |
| 16:39.46 | Sargun | but still not get deleted |
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| 16:42.59 | fozzmoo | So... |
| 16:43.01 | fozzmoo | I did a software update on a box that is an nrpe gateway |
| 16:43.04 | fozzmoo | and it killed nrpe |
| 16:43.08 | Sargun | yes |
| 16:43.16 | fozzmoo | so, I started getting messages that every machine in the data center was down. |
| 16:43.24 | fozzmoo | I fixed that pretty quick... but it wasn't fun. |
| 16:44.12 | sontek | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:44.21 | sontek | lol whoops |
| 16:44.26 | Sargun | Oh, shit. I broke exchange. |
| 16:44.53 | tensai | ~language Sargun |
| 16:44.54 | ibot | ACTION grabs Sargun by the ear and washes Sargun's mouth out with soap |
| 16:48.11 | tensai | has a bad sunburn |
| 16:48.17 | levi | Man, I love the linux hater's blog. |
| 16:48.26 | tensai | the annoying part is that I put on a ton of sun block |
| 16:48.49 | levi | tensai: You got burnt through the sunblock? How long were you in the sun? |
| 16:49.13 | tensai | 7-8 hours |
| 16:49.41 | mrpull- | levi: link? |
| 16:49.42 | levi | What kind of sun block was it? Was it new or old? |
| 16:49.53 | tensai | brand new. spf 30. I even reapplied once. |
| 16:50.04 | levi | mrpull-: http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/ |
| 16:50.12 | tensai | we all had problems with it though. everybody got burned. |
| 16:50.23 | mrpull- | levi: thanks. that was my guess, but it could have been others |
| 16:50.42 | levi | Huh. I heard something newsy a little while back about how some brands of sunscreen were mostly worthless. |
| 16:52.17 | tensai | this was an aerosol and I theorize that was part of the problem |
| 16:52.37 | tensai | either we didn't use it right or it doesn't work or something |
| 16:52.44 | levi | That's entirely possible. |
| 16:54.10 | mrpull- | http://seriouslysoblessed.blogspot.com/ is a good parody of the million utah mom blogs that have been springing up |
| 16:55.57 | fozzmoo | Is that really necessary? |
| 16:56.11 | fozzmoo | I mean, aren't they already a decent parody of themselves? |
| 16:56.40 | sontek | starts a parenting blog |
| 16:57.14 | sontek | The first and only Utah blog I read before I got here was maddox |
| 16:57.21 | sontek | So I thought all Utahns were like him! |
| 16:57.24 | mrpull- | fozzmoo: maybe it doesn't tickle your funny bone, but it totally hits home with me... i can see my sisters in those dopey posts |
| 16:57.25 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 16:57.26 | sontek | I sure was surprised |
| 16:57.38 | fozzmoo | mrpull-: Sure. |
| 16:58.11 | mrpull- | the "maddox grades your kid's art" page is probably the funniest thing to ever be posted on the web. |
| 16:58.17 | sontek | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/beatkid4.jpg |
| 16:58.27 | sontek | thats my favorite |
| 16:59.33 | mrpull- | hands down the best (mild language): http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=irule |
| 16:59.36 | brac | [I am better than your kids.] |
| 16:59.53 | mrpull- | ok... strong language |
| 17:00.17 | sontek | Thats the best kind |
| 17:00.22 | sontek | nobody likes a weakling |
| 17:03.14 | sontek | Someone needs to hold a conference with keynoters Maddox, XKCD, and Linux Hater |
| 17:04.01 | levi | sontek: And surprise guest, Richard Stallman! |
| 17:04.46 | levi | Although I'm sure he'd just refuse to speak on account of the presence of non-believers in the speaking line-up. |
| 17:06.54 | sontek | We asked him to come to UTOS last year and he sent a 12 page response with different demands and why we need to rename it to use free software instead of open source :P |
| 17:07.08 | levi | Yeah, that's the kind of crap I'm talking about. |
| 17:08.13 | levi | Such a primadonna. |
| 17:09.16 | mrpull- | what a dink |
| 17:09.33 | mrpull- | sontek: you should have posted it publicly |
| 17:10.03 | sontek | I got through the first page and a half and posted it to my trash :P |
| 17:10.31 | levi | It boggles my mind that he's got such a strong grip on the minds of computer geekdom. |
| 17:18.04 | Sargun | Why are my coworkers complaining about "how the protocol is too heavy" but they are putting uncompacted/compressed ASCII strings in it |
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| 17:19.47 | harleypig | I'm beginning to like javascript ... |
| 17:19.57 | harleypig | ducks |
| 17:22.53 | levi | javascript is a nice language, sullied by poor implementation in web browsers and lots of crappy code by non-programmers. |
| 17:22.56 | eggyknap | ~lart harleypig for allowing him/herself to be seduced by the smoke and mirrors that are javascript |
| 17:22.56 | ibot | takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in harleypig's direction, hitting harleypig and sending harleypig flying into the closet for allowing him/herself to be seduced by the smoke and mirrors that are javascript |
| 17:23.28 | eggyknap | Yeah, ok, I'll go with levi -- it's mostly poor implementations that have me hating .js |
| 17:24.21 | levi | Heh, I got a nice email from Zionsbank telling me not to freak out and withdraw all my money because they're in fine financial shape since they didn't get into the subprime mortgage market. |
| 17:24.26 | unum | I first I though I hated javascript, but then I came to realize I hated the DOM |
| 17:24.26 | mrpull- | eggyknap: harleypig is definitely a man. imagining a female version of harleypig disturbs my mind |
| 17:24.52 | eggyknap | knows basically no one, and hopes he hasn't forever damaged mrpull- by being gender-neutral :) |
| 17:25.38 | levi | mrpull-: Imagine a female version of harleypig on a Harley wearing nothing but leather chaps, and long hair braided Valkyrie-style. |
| 17:27.33 | levi | That's basically the image that popped into my head, though thankfully my mind was not very explicit in its imagery. |
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| 17:28.27 | mrpull- | levi: GAH... my mind embellished your version to the point of near-vomit conditions. |
| 17:30.12 | Tene | Vomit? Really? |
| 17:30.39 | mrpull- | nah, but it wouldn't be fun if i didn't exaggerate |
| 17:32.32 | harleypig | levi: with or without the beard? |
| 17:32.53 | harleypig | But the she me would have huuuge ... tracts of land! |
| 17:35.14 | levi | harleypig: Without facial hair. And of course, there would be huuuuge tracts of land, but they wouldn't be terribly appealing. |
| 17:36.22 | levi | Unless my memory is faulty, I've actually seen someone like this, though she was probably older than Harleypig. |
| 17:36.56 | levi | I've successfully supressed the details, though, so I'm making them up. |
| 17:54.05 | harleypig | :D |
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| 18:06.50 | timinator | hello all |
| 18:07.50 | timinator | I'm a UPHPU regular, and drop in here on occasion. |
| 18:08.01 | levi | Hi. |
| 18:08.39 | timinator | I've got KSL listings for The Zen of CSS, a Black 80gig iPod, and a 16gig iPod Touch |
| 18:08.57 | sontek | That definitely sounds like a self help intro, "HI, I'm timinator, and I use PHP" |
| 18:08.58 | timinator | wondering if anyone is in the market before I list them on eBay |
| 18:09.04 | timinator | LOL |
| 18:09.09 | levi | What are you selling them for? |
| 18:09.35 | timinator | ipods, for cash to turn into an iPhone purchase |
| 18:09.44 | timinator | the book cause it's just been sitting on a shelf |
| 18:10.05 | levi | And for how much? |
| 18:10.51 | bugQ | "what for", that tricky, arbitrary phrase |
| 18:11.08 | timinator | book == 20, 80gig == 200, 16gig == 360 |
| 18:11.25 | levi | (asked that way on purpose, since I was curious about both why and how much) |
| 18:11.50 | levi | timinator: I'll buy the iPod Touch for 360 pennies! ;) |
| 18:12.07 | timinator | and I'll pass :) |
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| 18:17.09 | timinator | <monotone> hello. my name is timinator... and I use PHP </monotone> |
| 18:17.46 | goozbach | HELLO timinator! </group chant> |
| 18:18.14 | timinator | <monotone> a buddy of mine got me hooked. i was only a kid. he showed me some code and it seemed cool at the time </monotone> |
| 18:18.24 | timinator | <monotone> everyone was doing it </monotone> |
| 18:19.12 | findlay | I don't see what the big deal about php is. I guess I've heard it has security problems, but besides that, so what? |
| 18:19.35 | timinator | <monotone> anyway, I'm studying ObjectiveC to get into iPhone development and wean my PHP dependance, </monotone> |
| 18:20.07 | sontek | findlay: and weed isn't habit forming, doesn't have side effects, and its the cheapest drug you can buy! |
| 18:21.18 | levi | This is an interesting blog entry about a sociological concept called 'Master Status': http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4671 |
| 18:21.49 | findlay | sontek is being skew on purpose, but I can't work out the full application of his metaphor |
| 18:23.14 | levi | findlay: I think his point is that its security problems are enough to demonize it. Though that would depend on his actual view of drugs in general, and 'weed' in particular. |
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| 18:23.59 | levi | I would have a low opinion of php even if it didn't have security problems, but I don't generally care enough to evangelize against it. |
| 18:24.00 | sontek | findlay: I was listing benefits of something bad, the list is shorter than the things wrong with it =) |
| 18:24.21 | sontek | findlay: But I have nothing against PHP, its just not my cup of tea! |
| 18:25.44 | levi | I'm sure we could have a lively debate on the nature of 'weed' and whether it truly has a much larger 'things wrong with it' list than its 'benefits' list. |
| 18:25.52 | tensai | it's a combination of a problematic language and lots of inexperienced users that give it a bad reputation. php can be used effectively though. |
| 18:27.26 | sontek | For example, identi.ca vs twitter |
| 18:27.28 | ^Migs^ | is there any real value to ASP, though? |
| 18:27.35 | sontek | identi.ca works very well and is wrote in PHP |
| 18:27.42 | sontek | twitter is horrible and is wrote in RoR |
| 18:27.52 | ^Migs^ | how is twitter horrible? |
| 18:28.05 | sontek | ^Migs^: There are lots of benefits to asp.net, classic asp not so much :P |
| 18:28.38 | bugQ | fyi, twitter was rewritten in php, for some reason |
| 18:28.44 | sontek | ^Migs^: IM services are *still* down, Their web interface is usually down, etc |
| 18:29.02 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I thought I'd heard that |
| 18:29.07 | bugQ | quite a few months ago, i believe |
| 18:29.11 | ^Migs^ | what does that have to do with the language it's in? |
| 18:29.16 | ^Migs^ | It's because Twitter didn't plan for the infrastructure |
| 18:29.17 | bugQ | not much |
| 18:29.26 | ^Migs^ | they grew too fast |
| 18:29.48 | tensai | isn't that the point though? |
| 18:29.56 | sontek | ^Migs^: that was my point |
| 18:29.57 | ^Migs^ | http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/01/twitter-said-to-be-abandoning-ruby-on-rails/ |
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| 18:30.07 | tensai | so many more things can affect whether a product is a success beyond what language it's written in |
| 18:30.26 | ^Migs^ | I missed half the conversation. What was your point? |
| 18:30.55 | levi | This is awesome beyond words: http://tiltedtwister.com/index.html |
| 18:31.01 | brac | [Tilted Twister - a Lego Mindstorms robot that solves Rubiks cube] |
| 18:31.29 | bugQ | I think that a language/framework can clearly influence the habits of a programmer, though |
| 18:32.18 | bugQ | levi: nice, there was a pre-NXT version somewhere too |
| 18:32.21 | ^Migs^ | whoa, levi |
| 18:32.23 | ^Migs^ | niiice |
| 18:32.38 | levi | PHP is a pretty dumb language, and thus easier to make a fast environment for and harder to write excessively slow code in. |
| 18:33.21 | levi | Ruby is, by nature, a harder language to make a fast environment for, and has many features with performance costs that aren't readily apparent. |
| 18:35.36 | findlay | levi: so the Master Status of php is it's security problems? :) |
| 18:36.33 | sontek | From what I understand, PHP the language doesn't have security problems (anymore, it did when globals was a default, I guess) |
| 18:36.35 | levi | I don't think php is the sort of entity meant to be dealt with via the Master Status theory. Sociologists don't generally deal with programming languages. |
| 18:36.41 | sontek | but its the poor use of it by the developers |
| 18:36.50 | ^Migs^ | any language can be "poorly used" |
| 18:37.08 | ^Migs^ | PHP happens to be more popular, easier to learn, therefore it's only natural that you'd have a higher ratio of "poor developers" if a higher ratio actually exists |
| 18:37.12 | levi | A person might have the Master Status of "php programmer", though. |
| 18:37.52 | sontek | ^Migs^: which is where the twitter reference came in, twitter used rails wrong |
| 18:38.08 | levi | UR DOIN IT RONG |
| 18:38.25 | sontek | someone needs to put fail whale with a ur doing it wrong text |
| 18:39.16 | findlay | levi: why not? |
| 18:39.42 | ^Migs^ | ah okay |
| 18:39.53 | levi | findlay: One must be conscious to self-identify. |
| 18:40.27 | findlay | and conscious to identify non-conscious entities |
| 18:40.50 | levi | The whole point is that Master Status is a self-identification. |
| 18:41.12 | findlay | and as a label applied to others |
| 18:43.47 | levi | No, I don't think so. Applying labels to others is something else; your Master Status is what determines how you'll apply those labels and react to different ones. |
| 18:44.35 | findlay | um, yes it is |
| 18:44.39 | findlay | read the article |
| 18:44.44 | findlay | that's half the point |
| 18:45.27 | levi | Ah, you're right. |
| 18:46.12 | sontek | http://sontek.net/twitter-doinitwrong.png |
| 18:46.15 | sontek | thats my attempt |
| 18:46.21 | sontek | I suck at the gimp :P |
| 18:46.39 | levi | findlay: I still don't think it applies to non-conscious entities, though. |
| 18:47.05 | findlay | levi: no, I was extrapolating :) |
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| 18:53.45 | findlay | sontek: u shuld totally digg it! |
| 18:58.08 | sontek | ~digg findlay |
| 18:58.09 | ibot | ACTION ddos's findlay's blog |
| 18:58.15 | sontek | oops! |
| 18:58.23 | findlay | heh |
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| 19:41.43 | TimRiker | anyone else headed to OLS this week? (http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/) |
| 19:48.22 | fozzmoo | It's a shame they've got it scheduled the same week as OSCON |
| 19:48.30 | fozzmoo | I was going to go to OSCON, but in the end, I'm not. |
| 19:49.19 | timinator | anyone know of a solid fax to email/PDF solution? |
| 19:49.27 | fozzmoo | Hylafax |
| 19:49.53 | fozzmoo | We've deployed it at a couple sites and it works great. |
| 19:49.53 | tensai | timinator: on-site or hosted? |
| 19:50.02 | timinator | either |
| 19:50.06 | goozbach | hylafax |
| 19:50.09 | timinator | just a fax number I can hand out |
| 19:50.11 | findlay | timinator: metrofax.com |
| 19:50.20 | tensai | I will also concur on hylafax for on-site |
| 19:50.20 | timinator | and get it all as PDF on my email |
| 19:50.21 | timinator | TY |
| 19:50.34 | fozzmoo | If you're looking for a hosted solution, myfax.com worked well for us. |
| 19:50.54 | fozzmoo | efax.com is pricey and requires a Windows program to view the faxes |
| 19:50.59 | fozzmoo | myfax.com just sends you a PDF. |
| 19:51.04 | findlay | efax ftl |
| 19:51.06 | timinator | sounds perfect |
| 19:51.28 | timinator | hosted sounds much better then |
| 19:51.50 | fozzmoo | Hylafax is nice if you've got a whole office of people who need to send stuff out... |
| 19:51.53 | fozzmoo | from their desktops |
| 19:52.00 | fozzmoo | and need access to shared cover page templates, etc. |
| 19:52.06 | fozzmoo | as well as incoming fax to PDF. |
| 19:52.11 | timinator | gotcha..... not the case then |
| 19:52.17 | timinator | all incoming faxes |
| 19:52.53 | timinator | specifically Bill of Ladings |
| 19:53.03 | timinator | the truckers fax them in |
| 19:53.18 | timinator | want to have them automatically converted to PDF |
| 19:56.30 | findlay | metrofax has worked awesome for us |
| 19:56.38 | findlay | and they are cheap |
| 19:58.44 | timinator | wow, they are cheap |
| 19:58.52 | timinator | how's the service on metrofax? |
| 20:00.42 | findlay | we only had one incident but it was hard to track down. There was some sort of PSTN level (from what I could estimate) link brokenness between our ISP and theirs. I spend a couple of days trying to track it down but it eventually went away. My guess is it had nothing to do with either our isp or them or their isp but probably somethig deeper |
| 20:01.08 | keldwud | hey there any scrappers in the room? |
| 20:01.29 | keldwud | ima 'bout to have to defend my home against more than one person. by myself. |
| 20:01.39 | keldwud | would prefer to solve without violence |
| 20:02.01 | keldwud | but without others around, I will have to defend myself to extreme lengths and I would prefer to avoid it |
| 20:02.02 | findlay | of course those sorts of situations are hard to deal with because you have to clamor with the customer service for a real tech and once you get one you have to argue with him about how you're not accusing his network of being broken but you're trying to figure out this problem, and then they go and blame the other guy, etc. |
| 20:02.15 | keldwud | just need bodies. |
| 20:02.23 | keldwud | laughs |
| 20:02.25 | findlay | keldwud: challenge them to a perl coding contest |
| 20:02.31 | keldwud | haha that ain't gonna work |
| 20:02.39 | keldwud | ain't that type of dispute |
| 20:02.43 | findlay | your perl sk1llz not up to it? |
| 20:02.54 | keldwud | all I have for defence is a fire extinguishe and some heavy pans |
| 20:03.04 | keldwud | I do not want to have to use them |
| 20:03.18 | keldwud | but if I am bymself when my x room-mates show up |
| 20:03.24 | keldwud | then so be it |
| 20:03.37 | findlay | you should have a chess tournament |
| 20:03.39 | findlay | you vs them |
| 20:03.45 | findlay | that would be fun |
| 20:03.56 | keldwud | nah, he's making it personal because he can't feed himself or his wife or his kid |
| 20:04.02 | keldwud | and he is taking it out on me. |
| 20:04.09 | keldwud | it is survival mode for him |
| 20:04.13 | keldwud | need mediators |
| 20:04.40 | keldwud | to de-escalate situation. I cannot de-escalate. I will only harm him |
| 20:04.56 | timinator | cool... thanks findlay |
| 20:06.42 | unum | keldwud: has he threatened you with violence |
| 20:07.19 | keldwud | yeah, but I am not getting the cops involved |
| 20:07.22 | keldwud | that will only delay it |
| 20:07.27 | keldwud | and stretch it out |
| 20:07.43 | unum | but reduce the likely hood of you being arrested |
| 20:07.44 | keldwud | then I will not feel safe alone in my home unless I track him down and set things straight |
| 20:07.45 | keldwud | his way. |
| 20:07.49 | unum | does not want to be arrested |
| 20:07.50 | keldwud | I will not get arrested. |
| 20:07.54 | keldwud | laughs |
| 20:07.57 | keldwud | my home. |
| 20:08.04 | keldwud | cornered |
| 20:08.05 | keldwud | law is |
| 20:08.12 | keldwud | less or equal force. |
| 20:08.31 | unum | so you think this guy is going to break into your house? |
| 20:08.38 | Tene | keldwud: I'm in Ohio until Friday. You need help before or after then? |
| 20:08.43 | keldwud | unless it is undetermined what the other person's intentions are and you are in fear of serious physical injury |
| 20:08.48 | keldwud | maybe after |
| 20:08.52 | keldwud | old friend of mine |
| 20:09.05 | keldwud | never gave up drugs like the rest of us did growing up |
| 20:09.15 | keldwud | kicked him out 2 weeks ago |
| 20:09.29 | keldwud | he never came and got his shit, still owes me money. so I stored the rest of it off-site |
| 20:09.44 | keldwud | now he can't feed his kid because him and his girl went through 300 bux of foodstamps |
| 20:09.48 | keldwud | and need their wic |
| 20:09.56 | Tene | wic? |
| 20:09.59 | keldwud | which was in a bag that I stuffed everything else into |
| 20:10.07 | goozbach | keldwud: ask an off-duty cop to swing by |
| 20:10.08 | keldwud | milk, grains, eggs, cheese. for women and their kids. |
| 20:10.15 | unum | Tene: coupons for food that children and pregnant women need |
| 20:10.28 | keldwud | goozbach - like I said, will only prolong and escalate situation. |
| 20:10.34 | keldwud | but if he needed it |
| 20:10.38 | goozbach | getting "your buddies" to help you is probally not a good ide |
| 20:10.40 | keldwud | then he should have taken it. |
| 20:10.54 | keldwud | more bodies = less chance of violence |
| 20:10.58 | keldwud | my crew is all in utah county |
| 20:11.04 | keldwud | and working |
| 20:11.06 | keldwud | laughs |
| 20:11.19 | goozbach | more bodies and no authority == more liability |
| 20:11.38 | goozbach | on your part |
| 20:11.48 | keldwud | nah, I've been in situations like this before. as long as one side does not feel more powerful or less powerful than the other |
| 20:12.45 | keldwud | I have some abc powder extinguisher here |
| 20:12.50 | keldwud | and he has asthma |
| 20:12.59 | keldwud | that should start things off right |
| 20:13.01 | keldwud | heh |
| 20:13.44 | goozbach | can't wait until the news tonight... "fight breaks out after an assalt with a fire extingiusher" |
| 20:13.48 | keldwud | hahaha |
| 20:13.56 | keldwud | it won't make the news. don't worry |
| 20:14.08 | Tene | With all the libertarian ideas in this channel, I'm surprised by the strong GO TO THE COPS response. |
| 20:14.12 | keldwud | i'll just get scraped up a bit |
| 20:14.21 | keldwud | cops are not here to solve our problems |
| 20:14.38 | Tene | Exactly. |
| 20:14.38 | unum | Tene: I've never been one the libertarians |
| 20:14.41 | keldwud | they are here to catch "bad" people |
| 20:15.01 | keldwud | and sometimes their prescence is used as a deterrent for crime |
| 20:15.02 | unum | in fact I used to help people fill out protective order all the time(this situation qualifies) |
| 20:15.16 | keldwud | protective order doesn't give me my freedom |
| 20:15.23 | unum | someone who threatens to physically harm you is a "bad" person |
| 20:15.24 | keldwud | it puts the control into somebody else's hands |
| 20:15.40 | keldwud | he is not a bad person, just a little confused in his thinking |
| 20:15.52 | unum | uh ya..... |
| 20:16.15 | unum | that could be said about all criminals |
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| 20:16.18 | keldwud | of course, the fact that he can't feed him and his girl and his kid off 300 bucks a month in food stamps and a 400 dollar a week job |
| 20:16.52 | keldwud | i've calmed down a little bit and hopefully he takes a respectful tone when he comes in. |
| 20:16.54 | goozbach | "protect and serve"? seems like it's good match for this situiation |
| 20:17.09 | keldwud | goozbach - good point ;) but I'm still not buyin it :) |
| 20:17.23 | goozbach | ok cool |
| 20:17.30 | goozbach | you have my opinion |
| 20:17.34 | keldwud | he threatened to bring the cops himself |
| 20:17.35 | keldwud | heh |
| 20:17.39 | dataw0lf | howdy folks. |
| 20:17.50 | keldwud | what up datawolf my nigga! |
| 20:17.55 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 20:17.56 | keldwud | heh |
| 20:18.05 | keldwud | different nick all the time. same person. |
| 20:18.23 | dataw0lf | Hm? |
| 20:18.29 | keldwud | i'd tell you stories of things that you have done, but Ima not throw you out in front of ppl that may not know ;) |
| 20:18.31 | keldwud | sweatpants |
| 20:18.35 | keldwud | laughs |
| 20:18.47 | dataw0lf | Ah, yes. Hello. |
| 20:19.14 | dataw0lf | herlo: Need speaker info on UTOSC. |
| 20:19.14 | keldwud | we were just discussing the pros and cons of handling a situation with or without police involvement |
| 20:19.22 | keldwud | I vote no cops |
| 20:19.48 | keldwud | and if I have to get bruised up and hurt because of my stubbornness that is my payment. |
| 20:19.49 | dataw0lf | Well. It would depend upon the situation, wouldn't it? |
| 20:20.01 | keldwud | old roommate shit. |
| 20:20.07 | dataw0lf | watch the language. |
| 20:20.11 | keldwud | what? |
| 20:20.12 | keldwud | where? |
| 20:20.17 | keldwud | oh. haha sorry. |
| 20:20.27 | keldwud | old roommate crap |
| 20:20.52 | dataw0lf | Today, I'm even less interested in drama then I normally am, sorry. |
| 20:21.01 | dataw0lf | herlo: priv me when you get a chance. |
| 20:21.01 | sontek | pfft, no cops! settle it like men! I'll ref |
| 20:21.11 | keldwud | hifives sontek |
| 20:21.13 | keldwud | there we go |
| 20:21.20 | Tene | yarly |
| 20:21.29 | keldwud | how's your new gadget treatin ya? |
| 20:23.00 | keldwud | oh I missed your PM there tene, sorry |
| 20:23.03 | sontek | anyone ever listened to last.fm's recommended songs? I think they just handout whatever band pays them |
| 20:23.14 | sontek | because these songs have nothing to do with my listening history |
| 20:24.46 | keldwud | sontek - I've become an avid enthusiast of pandora |
| 20:26.05 | ^Migs^ | I like both |
| 20:26.27 | findlay | keldwud: my vote is for the chess game |
| 20:26.31 | findlay | just fyi |
| 20:26.43 | keldwud | I still haven't figured out how to properly utilize last.fm yet |
| 20:26.57 | keldwud | I don't even think I have figured out how to listen to music on it. |
| 20:27.09 | sontek | keldwud: does pandora have it so you can send them what youa re listening to, so they can recommend artists to you? |
| 20:27.16 | keldwud | findlay - I wished that it were that simple. |
| 20:27.24 | keldwud | sontek: they have the "music genome" |
| 20:27.24 | levi | As far as I'm concerned, it's primary value is its ability to keep track of what you listen to and show it off to others. |
| 20:27.36 | sontek | keldwud: Thats the reason i'm using last.fm, but I could go grab cd's randomly and get better matches than they are |
| 20:27.45 | keldwud | I have only had to skip songs maybe twice, in the span of 4 hours |
| 20:27.54 | sontek | at least I'd get the right genre :P |
| 20:27.57 | keldwud | it matches perfectly |
| 20:28.25 | sontek | My main artists on last.fm are KMFD, Offspring, Tool, and Metallica |
| 20:28.26 | keldwud | they had musc people of all walks decode music into their different algorithmical components |
| 20:28.31 | sontek | and they are giving me rap and crap |
| 20:29.03 | levi | Well, you put crap in, you got crap back out. What were you expecting? ;) |
| 20:29.07 | keldwud | then they take 4 or 5 of the major algorithms, find other songs that have 3-4 in common and then maybe one or two minor ones that are slightly different |
| 20:29.40 | sontek | levi: I expect my type of crap! :P |
| 20:29.41 | keldwud | sontek, I put in metallica and got sslayer ac/dc black sabbath couple of tool songs occationally |
| 20:29.48 | keldwud | some motorhead |
| 20:30.06 | keldwud | sontek there is more info on their page. took me all of 15 minutes to get into it. |
| 20:30.24 | keldwud | you'll figure the rest out there. just start up a channel and see how it works for you. pretty intuitive I think. |
| 20:32.55 | sontek | I'll check it out if they have a banshee plugin :P |
| 20:33.09 | sontek | or an open api so I can write one |
| 20:33.29 | keldwud | haha, I dunno. |
| 20:33.40 | keldwud | I just start it up in the background and let it play |
| 20:33.54 | keldwud | try it that way first before you let them disappoint you |
| 20:34.45 | keldwud | any body familiar with Drupal? |
| 20:34.53 | keldwud | just got an email from them for an interview |
| 20:35.03 | Sargun | anybody |
| 20:35.16 | keldwud | says open source |
| 20:35.20 | Sargun | Congratulations, become a PHP programmer and help spread security exploits. |
| 20:35.21 | Sargun | :-P |
| 20:35.34 | keldwud | http://drupal.org/ |
| 20:35.42 | keldwud | hahah. |
| 20:35.51 | keldwud | "community plumbing" |
| 20:37.01 | keldwud | looks interesting. anybody know anything personally about it? Job is in Massachusettes |
| 20:44.07 | keldwud | oooh. procedural :) yummy. |
| 20:44.54 | Tene | http://use.perl.org/~chromatic/journal/36968?from=rss |
| 20:50.45 | mrpull- | pandora's recommendations are better than last.fm's |
| 20:51.23 | mrpull- | i like using openpandora for finding similar stuff... and it can track to last.fm |
| 20:53.08 | mrpull- | if you do like last.fm, make sure to join the #utah group |
| 20:53.21 | mrpull- | and see how terrible each our music taste is :) |
| 20:54.47 | keldwud | hey I found a pretty interesting tool for locating jobs with startups |
| 20:55.00 | keldwud | http://www.startuply.com/ |
| 20:55.12 | fozzmoo | A sign that says "Will code for free!" ? |
| 20:55.28 | keldwud | actually, it is a job board |
| 20:55.41 | keldwud | for startups to post positions they are hiring for. |
| 20:56.10 | keldwud | I hope to see more people use it because the more of us that use it, the more likely we will get startups from around the country posting job openings. |
| 20:56.21 | keldwud | and not just bay area or new england. |
| 20:57.10 | unum | I don't think I'm adventurous enough to work for a startup |
| 20:57.30 | keldwud | why not? |
| 20:57.47 | keldwud | you looking for that 20 year career that you can retire from? |
| 20:57.48 | mrpull- | keldwud: ever work for a company that bounced your paycheck? |
| 20:57.50 | mrpull- | i have |
| 20:57.58 | unum | ya that sort of thnig |
| 20:58.00 | unum | thing |
| 20:58.11 | keldwud | mrpull :) heh. I've been close. and I have worked for some shady operations. |
| 20:58.14 | keldwud | but.. |
| 20:58.32 | mrpull- | or worked for a company that calls you into the conference room and says they encourage you to continue working, but no paychecks will be cut this month |
| 20:58.48 | mrpull- | MOST startups fail |
| 20:58.52 | keldwud | check some of the companies on their job board. A lot of them seem quite stable and decent and some names that I recognize. |
| 20:59.15 | keldwud | I guess I'm the adventurous type. |
| 20:59.24 | unum | if they were place that I really felt had a chance, I might go for it. |
| 20:59.32 | mrpull- | let me guess... single, no kids |
| 20:59.35 | keldwud | ;) |
| 20:59.43 | keldwud | I gotta live it up while I still can. |
| 20:59.46 | unum | that actually fits me as well, but I do have mortage |
| 21:00.02 | keldwud | yeah, mortage = need for steadier income |
| 21:00.08 | teabeer | I hesitate to work for a startup because I hate editing resumes and interviewing |
| 21:00.31 | teabeer | If you like those things, go for it :) |
| 21:00.40 | unum | honestly one of the reasons I went for a computer science degree was so I wouldn't have to be selling my self all the time |
| 21:00.52 | unum | hates selling himself |
| 21:01.11 | teabeer | starts selling unum |
| 21:01.27 | keldwud | have any of you actually checked the companies and positions offered at the site I mentioned? or are we just speculating on bad experiences from the past? ;) |
| 21:01.53 | unum | if I've heard of them, I doubt I would count them as start ups |
| 21:02.16 | keldwud | maybe I described it incorrectly. I dunno. heh |
| 21:02.41 | mrpull- | keldwud: i searched for Utah, Salt Lake City, Provo, and American Fork and saw one job |
| 21:02.54 | fozzmoo | unum: I've discovered there's really no way out of selling yourself. |
| 21:02.54 | mrpull- | i'll stick with craigslist, dice, etc |
| 21:03.15 | fozzmoo | Even in a computer science field, you'll be most successful if you are good at selling yourself and your ideas. |
| 21:03.46 | keldwud | mrpull it is a new service. only 700 job postings so far. |
| 21:03.59 | keldwud | haha @ dice ;) |
| 21:04.07 | keldwud | god bless the RNG |
| 21:05.04 | keldwud | I just browsed through what they had on there. I doubt utah based startups will post there unless there are users like me checking out the service |
| 21:05.07 | unum | fozzmoo: you'll always be better off if you can do it. but with cs you can be less good at it and still be ok |
| 21:05.23 | unum | hmmm how does limewire count as a start up? |
| 21:05.56 | unum | I guess they're probably still losing money.... |
| 21:05.59 | unum | same with bittorrent |
| 21:06.36 | keldwud | hehe. |
| 21:06.36 | dataw0lf | indeed.com++ |
| 21:07.04 | unum | going to work for a company that has been around for almost ten years and has yet to make a profit doesn't excite me |
| 21:07.33 | keldwud | means they are still paying their employees doesn't it? *takes the silver lining stance* ;) |
| 21:08.03 | sontek | yeah, I suck at coding and i'm a balla! ;) |
| 21:08.15 | unum | they might be looking for coders to work for free |
| 21:08.22 | unum | has accidently applied for those jobs |
| 21:08.23 | keldwud | it is good for me to hear the skeptic side of things before I rush out blindly to massachusetts for a job |
| 21:08.50 | unum | is the company still living off investor funding? |
| 21:09.35 | goozbach | hopes that the majority of the utosc presentations will be recorded and youtube'ed this year |
| 21:10.17 | keldwud | that is a good question I should ask any potential employers, thank you for the tip unum. |
| 21:10.27 | keldwud | jots that one down |
| 21:10.32 | levi | keldwud: Drupal is a fairly popular content management system. I didn't know they had a company backing them. |
| 21:10.47 | keldwud | levi - yeah I found out they even have conventions and such. |
| 21:11.59 | levi | I ran a blog based on Drupal a few years ago. It was just taking off back then, and then I decided to move away from it due to wanting to customize it and not liking php. |
| 21:12.08 | unum | they should be doing ok, they've been aronud for a while |
| 21:12.25 | unum | wishes the salt lake county democrats would have gone with drupal |
| 21:13.12 | levi | What'd they go with? |
| 21:14.49 | sontek | goozbach: i'm going to be recording a screencast with audio for mine |
| 21:14.54 | keldwud | drupal actually contacted me even though my resume has no mentions of CMS and PHP. They are hiring for actual positions including support. It appears they are looking to work as an actual company. |
| 21:15.39 | keldwud | I think if a company is willing to spend money in the sinkhole that is customer support and helpdesk then they are serious about what they are doing. |
| 21:19.26 | goozbach | hurray for sontek! |
| 21:19.38 | sontek | except all my slides are in vim, so its not very fancy :P |
| 21:26.19 | bugQ | OSS projects often get paid by offering support |
| 21:26.48 | bugQ | what else can they make a living on? |
| 21:27.29 | keldwud | that is a good thing then isn't it? |
| 21:27.36 | bugQ | ya |
| 21:27.53 | bugQ | oh. right then. |
| 21:28.32 | bugQ | bad habit of assuming that any lengthy discussion in irc has to be an argument |
| 21:31.02 | keldwud | haha |
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