| 00:00.37 | Sargun | What would be the typical CS answer to this: A recursive function typically executes faster than its iterative counterpart. |
| 00:02.11 | Mellence | is it possible to the JRE for linux in anything but a bin or rpm |
| 00:02.55 | Sargun | ebuild? |
| 00:03.44 | Mellence | I had never used a .bin file before, but I just read their documentation. I still prefer source |
| 00:03.52 | Mellence | but maybe i'm just abnormal |
| 00:10.29 | Sargun | sh jdk.sh |
| 00:10.31 | Sargun | nick125, wha't us[ |
| 00:10.33 | Sargun | what's up |
| 00:14.14 | nick125 | Sargun: I need to redo my network...I'm almost out of public IPs, my network isn't secure enough, etc. |
| 00:14.20 | Sargun | lol |
| 00:14.25 | Sargun | get more routed IPs |
| 00:14.38 | nick125 | too expensive :p |
| 00:14.41 | Sargun | buy a Cisco ASA5580 |
| 00:14.49 | nick125 | besides, not every device on my network needs public IPs |
| 00:14.55 | Sargun | and bring in a CCNA |
| 00:15.09 | Sargun | to help you setup your network in a "Cisco certified fashion" |
| 00:15.14 | nick125 | no, screw you. |
| 00:15.32 | nick125 | Sargun: you've used up your sarcasm credits for the day. |
| 00:15.47 | Sargun | lol |
| 00:15.52 | Sargun | setup two vlans |
| 00:15.59 | Sargun | and then 1:1 NAT |
| 00:16.06 | Sargun | all of your public systems |
| 00:17.34 | levi | Mellence: Scheme is the rockingest 1st programming language |
| 00:17.59 | Mellence | levi: never heard of it before |
| 00:18.07 | levi | You've never heard of Scheme?! |
| 00:18.20 | levi | Kids these days. :P |
| 00:18.26 | Mellence | aah, a quick google search shows it's a dialect of lisp |
| 00:18.36 | levi | Yes. |
| 00:19.03 | levi | Up until recently, it was the language used for the first programming class at MIT. |
| 00:19.17 | Mellence | it looks friendly |
| 00:19.23 | Mellence | friendlier than some languages |
| 00:20.14 | levi | For someone who hasn't programmed before, there's a curriculum based around Scheme called TeachScheme that uses the 'How To Design Programs' textbook, which is free online. |
| 00:20.20 | nick125 | levi: What do they use now? |
| 00:20.29 | levi | And it's got a Scheme environment called DrScheme that supports it. |
| 00:20.34 | levi | nick125: Python |
| 00:20.40 | Sargun | Python |
| 00:20.44 | nick125 | levi: Ahh. |
| 00:21.51 | levi | Anyway, I think Scheme is lots of fun. Many people disagree with me, but they're missing out. |
| 00:22.43 | levi | I also enjoy Common Lisp, but Scheme is easier to get started with because it's a much smaller and more consistent language. |
| 00:23.27 | levi | ML variants are good, too, but there's not as much organized stuff for beginners for them. |
| 00:23.48 | Sargun | Harvey Mudd uses DrScheme |
| 00:24.12 | Sargun | Surprisingly there the kids have a hard time |
| 00:24.12 | Sargun | using it |
| 00:25.04 | levi | Are those kids who have programmed before? |
| 00:25.59 | Sargun | who knows |
| 00:26.01 | levi | A lot of people have problems simply because of the 'WTF is this? I'd rather be learning X!' phenomenon. |
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| 00:26.21 | lakshmi-palm | hey |
| 00:26.38 | levi | And then there's the fact that a large percentage of any intro to programming class is going to have a hard time, regardless of language. |
| 00:26.53 | Sargun | programming is easy. |
| 00:26.54 | elg | i think an applicative language like scheme would be a good first language, but I'm not convinced scheme is anywhere near ideal |
| 00:27.05 | Sargun | Algorithms are not. |
| 00:27.06 | elg | nor near anti-ideal |
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| 00:27.40 | lakshmi | is it fixed? |
| 00:27.40 | levi | I'm not sure it's ideal either, but I still think it's a good choice given what's available. |
| 00:27.53 | Sargun | elg, did you have to use a double negative? |
| 00:28.10 | levi | It's still the rockingest, though, even if it's not ideal. :) |
| 00:28.45 | elg | well rockingest is surely subjective. ;-) |
| 00:29.29 | levi | Well, partially objective at least. :) |
| 00:30.45 | levi | Scheme's just got so many goodies in it. You can learn a lot about all kinds of different programming styles and paradigms before you hit its limits. |
| 00:31.52 | Mellence | I'll take a look into Scheme |
| 00:32.17 | Mellence | A couple years ago, on family trips my dad would take his laptop so I would play around with Logo, with Kturtle |
| 00:32.20 | Mellence | I had a lot of fun |
| 00:32.27 | levi | Mellence: Check out this presentation: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePerl/ |
| 00:32.32 | brac | [Shriram Krishnamurthi: Talk: Swine Before Perl] |
| 00:32.34 | levi | Logo is cool, too. |
| 00:33.01 | Mellence | Kturtle is a nice environment to introduce kids age 8-16 to programming, as it is very friendly |
| 00:33.20 | levi | Logo is based on Lisp, too. |
| 00:34.39 | Mellence | My dad laughed at me when I was playing it because, in his eyes, Lisp is only useful for AI |
| 00:34.52 | levi | It's got fixed arity to its functions, though, so it doesn't need parentheses. |
| 00:36.50 | levi | Well, AI has moved on from where it was when Lisp reigned there, and Lisp has moved on as well. |
| 00:37.37 | levi | Scheme is actually closer in semantics to Algol/Pascal than early Lisp, though modern Common Lisp has borrowed a lot from Scheme. |
| 00:38.23 | Sargun | I hate LISP |
| 00:39.50 | levi | Yeah, well, your opinions are lame. |
| 00:40.05 | Sargun | heh |
| 00:40.24 | Sargun | Mellence, I think KTurtle is a bit too little for 14+ year old |
| 00:40.49 | Mellence | Sargun: It's still fun to play around with |
| 00:41.06 | Mellence | anyways, last time I used it was a trip to southern utah 2 years ago |
| 00:41.29 | Sargun | yeah |
| 00:41.35 | Sargun | but to introduce kids to programming |
| 00:44.07 | levi | I started learning programming at around the 3rd grade in Applesoft BASIC. |
| 00:44.39 | levi | I did a little bit of Logo a few years later, and then Pascal, and then C. |
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| 00:46.39 | levi | Mellence: Did you watch that presentation? |
| 00:46.52 | Mellence | levi: not yet, but I will soon |
| 00:48.22 | linuxalien | Dark Knight is great. What presentation would that be? |
| 00:48.36 | levi | So I've heard. |
| 00:48.52 | linuxalien | I just saw it maybe 15 min ago |
| 00:48.58 | linuxalien | well, got out 15 min ago |
| 00:49.05 | linuxalien | maybe 20 min :) |
| 00:49.08 | levi | this presentation: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePerl/ |
| 00:49.11 | brac | [Shriram Krishnamurthi: Talk: Swine Before Perl] |
| 00:49.18 | linuxalien | Thanks! |
| 00:50.52 | levi | Enjoy. It's very entertaining. |
| 00:51.07 | levi | As far as presentations go, anyway. Not like the Dark Knight or anything. |
| 00:51.30 | levi | So, who's seen Mama Mia already? ;) |
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| 00:51.32 | linuxalien | Thanks! I will |
| 00:51.36 | linuxalien | I haven't but want to |
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| 00:52.20 | levi | I saw the musical at Capitol Theatre. It was pretty entertaining too. |
| 00:53.49 | levi | My wife has been looking forward to the movie. |
| 00:54.07 | linuxalien | Oh cool. So I'm guessing the musical at the Capitol was good |
| 00:54.56 | levi | I loved seeing musicals there. I had a friend who always bought group tickets, got the best seats, and resold them to her friends. :) |
| 00:55.57 | linuxalien | Oh so nice hahaha I should try that. :) |
| 00:56.49 | levi | We were always in the first couple of rows or up in the front of the balcony. |
| 00:57.10 | linuxalien | I miss theater... I haven't been in a while |
| 00:58.07 | levi | I haven't got the cash to blow on the Capitol anymore, so we just have Desert Star season tickets and occasionally go to the Hale Center Theater. |
| 00:59.51 | linuxalien | That's a bummer but I know how that goes. |
| 01:01.42 | levi | Back then, we only had a $600/mo mortgage, no kids, and 2 incomes. |
| 01:02.35 | linuxalien | Life happens but i bet you're glad to have kids if that's the case. :) |
| 01:02.44 | levi | Hmmm. |
| 01:03.17 | levi | Well, I wasn't very glad a couple of hours ago when my daughter had deposited half the dirt in a pot onto the chair and floor next to it. |
| 01:04.12 | linuxalien | Oh yeah, hahaha but when she has kids and that happens to her you can laugh at her |
| 01:04.30 | levi | Yeah, like I want to think about her having kids right now! |
| 01:04.31 | Sargun | levi, :-( |
| 01:04.48 | linuxalien | hahha True |
| 01:24.09 | levi | Grace Potter and the Nocturnals are on KUED 7.2 right now. |
| 01:24.22 | levi | Never heard 'em before, but they rock. |
| 01:24.37 | findlay | is he related to Harry? |
| 01:24.46 | levi | She |
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| 01:48.03 | Mellence | again, i'm probably going to get some flack for this, but I prefer the way the old openoffice looked, prior to 2.0 |
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| 01:50.43 | Mellence | levi: I love the first quote from the presentation |
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| 01:59.29 | levi | Mellence: I don't recall what the first quote is. |
| 02:02.04 | Mellence | "Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of common lisp" |
| 02:02.28 | levi | Ah, Phil Greenspun. |
| 02:03.44 | Mellence | yep |
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| 02:10.12 | Sargun | Bacon! |
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| 02:18.04 | Mellence | That was an awesome presentation. It even made mostly sense to a non-programmer like me |
| 02:21.17 | levi | Shriram Krishnamurthi is an awesome guy. |
| 02:24.20 | lakshmi | levi can you even say that name? |
| 02:24.51 | levi | Uh, yeah, it's not very hard. |
| 02:26.14 | bugQ | not much more difficult than Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, anyway |
| 02:27.33 | levi | C'mon, Nahasapeemapetilon has twice the number of syllables of Krishnamurthi |
| 02:27.48 | bugQ | true. |
| 02:28.22 | levi | And the first half of 'Krishnamurthi' is 'Krishna', which everyone ought to know how to pronounce. |
| 02:28.46 | levi | And 'murthi' isn't very complicated. |
| 02:29.52 | bugQ | well, not everyone knows their Hindu deities |
| 02:43.28 | levi | Anyone who hasn't heard 'Krishna' being pronounced has been hiding under a rock. |
| 02:45.50 | Mellence | I wish more people in my ward were into computers. Linux more specifically |
| 02:46.17 | Mellence | Then we could do a PLUG meeting for YM's. |
| 02:47.54 | Sargun | leave your ward |
| 02:52.56 | levi | Sargun is just happy there's someone younger than him here now. :P |
| 02:53.33 | Sargun | heh |
| 02:54.24 | Mellence | How old are you Sargun? |
| 02:55.22 | Sargun | young |
| 02:55.42 | Mellence | Does anyone know Sasha Pachev? |
| 03:00.01 | Mellence | I'll take that as a no. He was part of the PLUG, and everyone knew him as "The crazy russian with the funny accent" in my old ward. |
| 03:00.20 | Mellence | I didn't know he was into computers until I had already moved. |
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| 03:07.05 | Sargun | Crazy russians! |
| 03:19.41 | linuxalien | hehehe |
| 03:19.44 | linuxalien | Ruskies! |
| 03:19.48 | linuxalien | I had some Russian friends |
| 03:20.20 | linuxalien | One was from Georgia....he was atheist, and when I met a hot hot Russian gal at Temple Square I gave in to the temptation of giving her his number...well, he stopped talking to me. I miss that guy. |
| 03:36.18 | levi | I kind of knew Sasha. |
| 03:36.29 | levi | We were going to BYU at the same time. |
| 03:36.43 | Mellence | Sasha is an interesting person |
| 03:37.11 | levi | Yeah. I didn't really know him very well, just saw him once or twice at UUG meetings. |
| 03:42.50 | linuxalien | Laters. Time to wash the car |
| 03:45.02 | levi | Isn't it a bit dark for car-washing? |
| 03:45.26 | levi | I guess it's best not to wash the car in direct sun, but the sun hasn't been direct for a little while now. |
| 03:46.11 | nick125 | I'd agree. 10 o'clock at night probably isn't the best time to go wash the car. |
| 03:47.06 | Mellence | I'll be back in a second, i broke firefox |
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| 03:48.17 | nick125 | Time to debate on what to put on my new-ish firewall box. Should I put Gentoo on there or should I use OpenBSD? |
| 03:48.42 | levi | Does it really matter? |
| 03:49.05 | nick125 | Yeah, it does. |
| 03:51.21 | levi | Sure. |
| 03:57.30 | nick125 | I'm not entirely sure that I want to compile a whole lot on a 400mhz PII |
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| 04:05.59 | lakshmi-palm | sargun |
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| 05:18.18 | lakshmi-palm | is sargun here |
| 05:21.36 | fozzmoo | You didn't hear? |
| 05:23.28 | lakshmi-palm | oh no did he die? |
| 05:42.07 | lakshmi | hi findlay |
| 05:42.10 | lakshmi | er fozzmoo |
| 05:42.26 | fozzmoo | er lakshmi |
| 05:42.44 | jsmith | waves from the other side of the globe |
| 05:42.51 | fozzmoo | jsmith: Yat? |
| 05:42.58 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Korea |
| 05:43.03 | fozzmoo | Whoa! |
| 05:43.07 | jsmith | Yeah... |
| 05:43.23 | fozzmoo | Doing some ASterisk training or are you just... hanging with the natives? |
| 05:44.12 | jsmith | fozzmoo: training, of course! |
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| 05:44.21 | fozzmoo | Well, that's dang cool. |
| 05:44.35 | fozzmoo | jsmith: Will you do me a favor? Ask them about fan death. |
| 05:44.45 | fozzmoo | It's a phenomenon that apparently only exists in Korea. |
| 05:44.49 | jsmith | fozzmoo: fan death? |
| 05:45.12 | jsmith | fozzmoo: fan as in "the noisy thing in my computer that blows air"? |
| 05:45.17 | fozzmoo | Yeah. There's a strong belief (call it a superstition, perhaps) that if you sleep with a fan blowing on you, it will kill you. |
| 05:45.31 | jsmith | fozzmoo: OK, will do |
| 05:45.50 | fozzmoo | But the Korean government has even issued statements that if you must have a fan blow on you... you should buy a fan with a timer on it so it doesn't blow on you all night. |
| 05:46.00 | fozzmoo | it's a weird, weird thing, this fan death phenomenon. |
| 05:46.06 | fozzmoo | There's a nice writeup on it on Wikipedia. |
| 05:46.07 | jsmith | Yeah, strange |
| 05:46.11 | jsmith | I will ask |
| 05:46.16 | fozzmoo | Cool! |
| 05:46.26 | fozzmoo | My stupid brother in law went on his mission there and swears by it. |
| 05:47.04 | fozzmoo | I was showing him all the debunking that was in Wikipedia... he said we just don't understand- korean homes are the size of our large bedrooms... |
| 05:47.09 | fozzmoo | and it gets very hot there... |
| 05:47.15 | fozzmoo | and they're very smart. |
| 05:47.23 | fozzmoo | I guess, all these factors combined... |
| 05:47.25 | fozzmoo | FAN DEATH! |
| 05:47.47 | fozzmoo | Maybe the common household fan there is akin to a small jet engine. |
| 05:47.57 | fozzmoo | I'm very interested. :) |
| 06:39.08 | RyanE | I slept with a fan pointed on me all night every night all summer on my mission in Brasil. |
| 06:57.43 | fozzmoo | That was Brasil/Brazil. Fan death is a phenomenon isolated to Korea. |
| 07:00.06 | jsmith | fozzmoo: If it makes you feel any better, I slept all night with the air conditioner fan blowing on me, and I'm still alive |
| 07:00.22 | fozzmoo | Whew. :) |
| 07:07.29 | jsmith | Well, time to wrap things up and head back to the hotel |
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| 08:38.29 | Tene | ... newborn caribou can outrun wolves. |
| 08:38.48 | Sargun | o.O? |
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| 11:14.20 | Sargun | I need a new knife |
| 12:18.18 | Sargun | Gotta love watchdog timers |
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| 18:08.27 | vontrapp | i once saw a way to store the current vt number, switch to another ,and switch back again |
| 18:08.35 | vontrapp | but i can't remember it now |
| 18:09.53 | bugQ | you could use screen |
| 18:10.02 | goozbach | tty >/tmp/terminal |
| 18:10.07 | vontrapp | no, this is about refreshing the x display |
| 18:10.18 | vontrapp | and not tty, VT |
| 18:10.37 | goozbach | chvt `grep <the important bits> /tmp/terminal` |
| 18:10.41 | vontrapp | as in, X is usually vt 7 |
| 18:11.19 | goozbach | it's not an exact soluction |
| 18:11.24 | goozbach | but where I would start |
| 18:11.43 | vontrapp | that only works if your in a console vt |
| 18:12.06 | vontrapp | this script will run from lirc, and won't be in any tty, console or not |
| 18:12.15 | vontrapp | i need the currently displayed vt |
| 18:14.23 | vontrapp | where are the suspend scripts? i think that's where i originally saw what i need |
| 18:16.04 | vontrapp | ahah |
| 18:16.07 | vontrapp | fgconsole |
| 18:17.28 | vontrapp | yay |
| 18:18.01 | vontrapp | /etc/acpi/suspend.d/75-console-switch.sh |
| 19:21.28 | findlay | how do you match newlines in vim? |
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| 19:53.15 | Mellence | Has anyone read "The Cuckoo's egg"? |
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| 21:09.27 | goozbach | findlay: /<ctrl>+v<enter> |
| 21:09.53 | goozbach | or \n |
| 21:10.50 | findlay | goozbach: I tried \n and it didn't work |
| 21:11.05 | findlay | it said: trailing characters |
| 21:11.41 | findlay | actually, I mis stated my question |
| 21:11.56 | findlay | I want . to match \n in a :s expression |
| 21:17.41 | sontek | %s/\n/x replaced all newlines in my vim |
| 21:17.48 | sontek | and I could search for them with /\n |
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| 21:21.44 | findlay | x, that's it |
| 21:22.06 | findlay | surprisingly, it's not in the substitute flags in the vim documentation? |
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| 21:33.30 | levi | Good afternoon. |
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