| 00:07.00 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
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| 00:21.26 | findlay | because |
| 00:22.53 | atoponce | oh |
| 00:54.49 | findlay | -excuse |
| 00:54.49 | brac | piezo-electric interference |
| 00:57.19 | *** join/#utah nick125 (i=nick@pdpc/supporter/student/nick125) |
| 00:58.13 | nick125 | That's it. I've had it with crappy DSL modems. |
| 00:58.46 | findlay | sure, make me feel even more spoiled |
| 00:58.50 | nick125 | is thinking of getting a Sangoma S518 |
| 01:00.00 | nick125 | It's $115, but it's got to be better than these crappy modems. |
| 01:00.25 | findlay | if my ISP modem went out, the whole fiber ring would go down, so they're required to put in a good one :) |
| 01:12.33 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=Jake@newshell.xmission.com) |
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| 01:17.40 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=jayce@dhcp50.emcb.utah.edu) |
| 01:17.40 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 01:26.38 | *** join/#utah herlo-lap (n=herlo@dhcp50.emcb.utah.edu) |
| 01:26.48 | herlo-lap | sllug recording at http://stream.utos.org:8080 |
| 01:26.51 | brac | [Utah Open Source Streaming Media Server] |
| 01:30.20 | findlay | what are they doing |
| 01:30.28 | findlay | has it turned into a riot yet? |
| 01:30.36 | herlo-lap | nope, can you hear it? |
| 01:31.13 | nick125 | looks at the S519 and gets slightly sick to his stomach |
| 01:32.16 | nick125 | Whoever's idea it was to put an ethernet and an ADSL modem on the same card is sick in the head. |
| 01:33.27 | nick125 | Really really sick. |
| 01:34.27 | nick125 | To configure it, you telnet into the card...wtf |
| 01:35.26 | nick125 | Am I the only one that sees that as being sick and a bad idea(TM)? |
| 01:41.10 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 01:41.10 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 01:44.47 | Jayce^ | nick125, you here at sllug? |
| 01:44.59 | nick125 | Jayce^: negative. Kind of far away to go :( |
| 01:45.19 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 01:51.44 | elg | wtf? netflix is eliminating profiles? |
| 01:53.43 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@adsl-209-233-46-67.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 01:56.54 | Jayce^ | what? |
| 01:59.34 | herlo-lap | streaming rules on darkice |
| 02:05.06 | elg | just got an email to that effect |
| 02:05.17 | elg | and sent off a flaming "suggestion" |
| 02:05.53 | elg | seriously, if they do that I'm totally losing faith. might as well go blockbuster at that point, at least I can return the vids to the store and get a new one right away |
| 02:06.40 | elg | "While it may be disappointing to see Profiles go away, this change will help us continue to improve the Netflix website for all our customers." |
| 02:07.06 | Jayce^ | hrm, I still don't have one... might just be later in the list :) |
| 02:07.35 | elg | could be. I googled it as soon as I got it and others had complained on their blogs at least a few hours ago |
| 02:12.54 | Jayce^ | http://community.netflix.com/forum/topic/show?id=1993323%3ATopic%3A194695 |
| 02:13.01 | RazberrieTart | :D |
| 02:15.28 | nick125 | wishes his local LUG would meet... |
| 02:22.36 | nick125 | $20?! You can get USB audio cards for $4! :P |
| 02:24.56 | jsmith-away | nick125: I bought twenty of them just last week |
| 02:25.49 | nick125 | haha |
| 02:26.36 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 02:27.06 | nick125 | jsmith: Why? |
| 02:28.16 | jsmith | nick125: Why buy one when you can buy two for twice the price?!? |
| 02:28.23 | jsmith | nick125: Something like http://www.buyextras.com/asusbstausoa.html |
| 02:28.29 | brac | [BUYEXTRAS.COM] |
| 02:29.26 | nick125 | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9723 |
| 02:30.14 | nick125 | You could've bought 10+ for $3.01 each shipped. |
| 02:32.13 | nick125 | Then you could've bought like...40 of them for the same price |
| 02:32.29 | nick125 | It'd be interesting to get a bunch of USB hubs and setup 40 USB sound cards |
| 02:32.40 | elg | interesting as in "works like crap" |
| 02:32.47 | elg | usb audio and hubs don't play well together |
| 02:32.50 | jsmith | I only paid $4 each for them shipped |
| 02:33.08 | nick125 | elg: lol |
| 02:34.13 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 02:36.02 | Jayce^ | I <3 dealextreme |
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| 03:30.22 | Supaplex | huuuyah! |
| 03:30.41 | findlay | hello |
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| 06:57.37 | findlay | well, it's tomorrow |
| 06:58.12 | Supaplex | ~lart yesterday |
| 06:58.12 | ibot | beats yesterday senseless with a 50lb Unix manual |
| 06:58.31 | Supaplex | take THAT and THAT AND THAT *womp* |
| 12:20.35 | ^Migs^ | http://www.syncplicity.com/ |
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| 14:22.48 | Sargun_screen | How much do ou think a petabyte of storage woukdld cost? |
| 14:26.56 | jsmith | The raw storage along would cost ~$150k |
| 14:27.04 | jsmith | s/along/alone/ |
| 14:30.00 | Sargun_screen | jsmith: That's not much |
| 14:30.18 | Sargun_screen | now chaining it all together is where stuff gets VERY expensive. |
| 14:30.34 | jsmith | Sargun_screen: Raw storage prices are dropping all the time... but the interconnects don't seem to be |
| 14:32.17 | Sargun_screen | I did the numbers just now |
| 14:32.27 | Sargun_screen | and It would be about 13PB to run Gmaps |
| 14:35.47 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 14:35.47 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 14:38.49 | goozbach | Sargun_screen: look into a CoRAID product |
| 14:44.12 | tensai | Sargun_screen: write a virus and build a botnet. use their disks as your storage. |
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| 15:14.53 | levi | Good morning. |
| 15:15.35 | bonez45 | good morning, Mr. Strauss! |
| 15:18.26 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 15:19.18 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.55 | ^Migs^ | Wtf? You can't even discipline your kids anymore?! http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2008/06/19/5924686.html |
| 15:20.52 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
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| 15:21.21 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 15:21.22 | sontek | have you guys given openSUSE 11.0 love on digg yet? http://digg.com/linux_unix/Announcing_openSUSE_11_0_GM |
| 15:21.34 | tensai | ~whaleslap elg |
| 15:21.35 | ibot | ACTION beats elg upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 15:21.39 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:21.39 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 15:21.54 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 15:21.58 | tyler_work | Hugh the Whale? Is that you? |
| 15:22.40 | tensai | elg: well quit running away, would you? |
| 15:22.58 | elg | sorry, colloquy decided to do the ignore #utah thing again |
| 15:23.02 | elg | stupid unstable program |
| 15:23.11 | elg | if only irssi would handle disconnects gracefully |
| 15:23.29 | elg | so, my aunt said she got a bounce message trying to send to a fugal.net address from joanna.zmonkey.org |
| 15:23.30 | tensai | irc proxies ftw! |
| 15:23.46 | *** join/#utah knine (n=knine@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:23.47 | elg | i don't want a proxy, i waste too much time reading backlogs that way :) |
| 15:25.03 | goozbach | I only read the backlogs if my irssi hilights have been mentioned |
| 15:25.38 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 15:26.41 | elg | does that work in the current window? |
| 15:26.53 | elg | (I guess I'm thinking screen not proxy, but...) |
| 15:27.33 | elg | the other thing is i like having it in a separate window that I can ignore/hide/fixate on at will |
| 15:28.51 | ^Migs^ | http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1815845,00.html |
| 15:28.55 | brac | [Pregnancy Boom at Gloucester High - TIME] |
| 15:28.55 | ^Migs^ | good Lord... |
| 15:28.59 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 15:29.19 | ^Migs^ | 16 year-old girls making a pact to get pregnant and raise their babies together. |
| 15:31.05 | elg | "I try to explain it's hard to feel loved when an infant is screaming to be fed at 3 a.m." |
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| 15:31.56 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:33.47 | ^Migs^ | one of the fathers was a 24 year-old homeless guy |
| 15:33.54 | ^Migs^ | what a bunch of champs |
| 15:33.58 | ^Migs^ | where are the parents? |
| 15:34.03 | ^Migs^ | someone needs to kick these girls' butts |
| 15:34.52 | ^Migs^ | Teenage girls are the most irrational creatures on earth. I wish I'd realized that when I was in school. It would've saved me so much confusion. |
| 15:35.45 | *** join/#utah clints (n=clints@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:37.00 | levi | Heh. |
| 15:37.44 | tyler_work | My girlfriend is getting close to 21 |
| 15:37.49 | tyler_work | She's as crazy as they get |
| 15:37.51 | clints | oooh |
| 15:37.57 | clints | good luck in Vegas |
| 15:38.07 | tyler_work | Funny you should say that |
| 15:38.17 | tyler_work | Her mother is a huge gambler |
| 15:38.26 | tyler_work | and that's undoubtably where we are going |
| 15:38.38 | clints | DONT GO!!! ITS GOING TO GET HER ADDICTED!! |
| 15:38.43 | clints | ITS A TRAP!! |
| 15:38.43 | ^Migs^ | OHNOES! |
| 15:38.57 | tyler_work | Haha, well there's a perk to havign family that's addicted to gambling |
| 15:39.01 | tyler_work | The kids tend to hate it |
| 15:39.15 | clints | uh huh, sure |
| 15:39.18 | knine | hrm |
| 15:39.18 | tyler_work | And she does. She wants to go for Jolli Bee (sp?) |
| 15:39.30 | tyler_work | I'll keep an eye on her |
| 15:40.02 | tyler_work | especially when she's winning |
| 15:40.07 | tyler_work | :) |
| 15:40.07 | *** join/#utah talkingDOWNTOWN (n=Cuban@dhcp189.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:40.19 | talkingDOWNTOWN | flys in the room. |
| 15:40.23 | talkingDOWNTOWN | Did someone say gambling? |
| 15:40.33 | tyler_work | points at everyone else |
| 15:40.35 | tyler_work | I think they did |
| 15:41.14 | tyler_work | 10:40 <clints> I gamble and it's a problem. The meds don't help. |
| 15:41.15 | talkingDOWNTOWN | loves the gamblin'. Rarrrrrrrr. |
| 15:41.25 | tyler_work | Do you play Texas Hold 'em by chance? |
| 15:41.31 | talkingDOWNTOWN | Who doesn't? |
| 15:41.34 | talkingDOWNTOWN | and Russian Roulette. |
| 15:41.49 | tyler_work | That's a winner |
| 15:41.56 | talkingDOWNTOWN | Well... I've never lost. |
| 15:42.02 | talkingDOWNTOWN | So, so far I'd say it has worked out well. |
| 15:42.28 | talkingDOWNTOWN | clints and I played strip poker once. |
| 15:42.32 | talkingDOWNTOWN | Willlllld party that one. BAM! |
| 15:42.40 | tyler_work | it's hard to get the others to pay up after they lose though |
| 15:42.50 | talkingDOWNTOWN | I usually just walk over and take it from them. |
| 15:43.05 | tyler_work | Interesting strategy. |
| 15:45.42 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 15:48.46 | goozbach | playing strip poker with clints? *shudder* that's a mental picture I didn't want... THANKS a lot |
| 15:49.08 | Sargun | o.O |
| 15:49.26 | Sargun | clints = clients or clients != clients? |
| 15:49.40 | jsmith | Sargun: He's probably referring to herlo |
| 15:49.46 | jsmith | goozbach: I shuddered as well |
| 15:51.12 | Sargun | Wow, the weirdness level in #utah has significantly increased. |
| 15:52.06 | maquis | wow... |
| 15:52.27 | maquis | i'm playing this online rpg, and my character is trying to break into a church... |
| 15:52.46 | Sargun_screen | Why? |
| 15:52.55 | Sargun_screen | To the latter part, not the earlier |
| 15:53.00 | elg | she's playing the davinci code seqel |
| 15:53.07 | Sargun_screen | sequel |
| 15:53.09 | elg | her cahracter is ron howard |
| 15:53.14 | elg | ~spell sargun |
| 15:53.14 | maquis | asked the STs what's happening, and they said that my character came across an unlocked door in the back of the church |
| 15:53.21 | Sargun_screen | ~lart elg |
| 15:53.21 | ibot | stamps elg on the forehead with the official Troll marker |
| 15:53.26 | maquis | either there's something nasty behind that door, or i got a *really* nice roll |
| 15:53.43 | *** part/#utah clints (n=clints@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:54.00 | maquis | Sargun_screen: the church got locked up by the groundskeeper, but one of my group-mates left his sword inside |
| 15:54.13 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jake@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:54.31 | goozbach | more gurus!!! |
| 15:54.43 | jalbretsen | well, I'm the same guru twice |
| 15:54.49 | goozbach | he's an insider |
| 15:55.01 | *** part/#utah HowdyTime (n=Cuban@dhcp189.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:55.04 | jalbretsen | split personality |
| 15:55.14 | goozbach | are you the cuban?! |
| 15:55.15 | jalbretsen | or another regeneration |
| 15:55.28 | jalbretsen | ha |
| 15:55.31 | goozbach | es el cubano? |
| 15:55.54 | maquis | jalbretsen: you're a guru now? |
| 15:56.05 | jalbretsen | guru in training |
| 15:56.39 | jalbretsen | daily harassment by stuart is taking place |
| 15:57.24 | jalbretsen | oh, I still have that on |
| 15:57.56 | *** part/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 15:58.42 | goozbach | murpull = jalbretsen ? |
| 15:58.55 | goozbach | more gurus! |
| 15:58.58 | jalbretsen | no, I was knine |
| 15:59.19 | goozbach | who's the cubano then? |
| 15:59.26 | tyler_work | mrpull and jalbretsen both whois to jake |
| 15:59.35 | tyler_work | coincidence? I think not |
| 15:59.39 | sontek | I just got the call of death :( |
| 16:00.04 | goozbach | call of death? |
| 16:00.19 | sontek | Its a number with all 9's |
| 16:00.20 | jalbretsen | mrpull is not me |
| 16:00.37 | sontek | I guess there was a movie like 'the ring' but where you got the phone call with all 9's |
| 16:00.48 | tyler_work | sontek: I get calls from all 9's, 1000000000, and just 0 all the time |
| 16:07.34 | sontek | yeah, I just got another call of all 0's that was a telemarketer |
| 16:07.42 | sontek | looks like they ping you with 9's and spam you with 0's |
| 16:16.28 | tensai | whenever I get a call from all 0s, it's qwest dsl support |
| 16:19.29 | jsmith | My favorite is when I get calls from 0000006104 |
| 16:19.40 | bonez45 | is an all 9999999999999 call, telemarketing? |
| 16:20.50 | *** part/#utah jalbretsen (n=jake@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:28.12 | sontek | bonez45: They didn't talk, but according to google its either the call of death, or a telemarketer ping |
| 16:28.22 | sontek | bonez45: and I got called by a telemarketer 5 minutes later |
| 16:29.26 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:30.41 | findlay | sontek: if you have asterisk, that'd be easy to blacklist :) |
| 16:31.23 | sontek | findlay: come set it up for us! we use a crappy phone system right now |
| 16:32.13 | Sargun | Asterisk is fairly easy |
| 16:32.16 | jsmith | GotoIf($[${CALLERID(num) = 9999999999]?telemarketer-torture,1) |
| 16:32.27 | findlay | sontek: I'm sure you could figure it out, but if you want somebody to consult with personally, I would be willing |
| 16:32.47 | findlay | besides that, several people have learned and implemented asterisk here |
| 16:33.04 | Sargun | jsmith, I had set it up if it was an unlisted number it would to the telemarketer's PoD |
| 16:33.15 | Sargun | a small AGI |
| 16:33.18 | findlay | sontek: and in place of the 9's you can put a regular expression :) |
| 16:33.43 | findlay | Sargun: what's a PoP? |
| 16:34.22 | findlay | s/D/ |
| 16:34.31 | findlay | ~pod |
| 16:34.31 | ibot | i heard pod is Plain Old Documentation. for perl only (AFAIK). If you have problems with syntax highlighting.. rememeber there is an empty line around the = parts |
| 16:35.07 | Sargun | PoD is the ping of death |
| 16:37.00 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@148.87.13.8) |
| 16:37.21 | Sargun | 151MRhode_Island-20080229.osm |
| 16:37.21 | Sargun | 4.8GCalifornia-20080228.osm |
| 16:37.22 | Sargun | haha |
| 16:38.41 | Jayce^ | talk about circular arguments... |
| 16:42.45 | ^Migs^ | http://www.angryalien.com/0604/titanicbunnies.html |
| 16:42.46 | brac | [Titanic in 30 seconds with bunnies.] |
| 16:43.33 | *** join/#utah sinuhe` (n=user@206.83.88.66.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:44.32 | brasto | in if [! -w <otherstuff>]; expr |
| 16:44.37 | brasto | what's the -w doing |
| 16:44.39 | brasto | ? |
| 16:44.47 | brasto | checking for writability? |
| 16:45.06 | brasto | btw, that's in a bash script |
| 16:46.04 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.22 | jsmith | brasto: the [ is actually an executable, also known as "test" |
| 16:46.31 | jsmith | brasto: type "man test" tor a complete list |
| 17:02.57 | brasto | cool, thanks jsmith |
| 17:06.22 | fozzmoo | http://youtube.com/watch?v=GFjWjAz49Z4 |
| 17:10.08 | brasto | anyone know why my laptop touchpad likes to make Firefox go back in history??? |
| 17:10.14 | brasto | argh it's annoying |
| 17:10.24 | brasto | and it happens on other laptops with a touchpad, too. |
| 17:11.42 | goozbach | brasto: it's the synaptics driver |
| 17:11.50 | goozbach | it's either the bottom or top edge |
| 17:15.51 | ECRS401 | make sure mouse guestures arent turned on in FF |
| 17:39.39 | Jayce^ | ahh, and it boils down to the "bush created the war" mantra... now we must all believe him. |
| 17:45.36 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@72.8.99.158) |
| 17:49.40 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch_@nat/novell/x-3c109d65514c81e1) |
| 18:02.51 | levi | Heh, Josh Coates tells us how he *really* feels. |
| 18:03.41 | RyanE | Go Josh! Woo! Yeah, I don't think he has an issue expressing himself. |
| 18:05.35 | JoshH | sometimes i do like that guy |
| 18:06.58 | levi | Gee, he seems to have some issue with the unfettered free market. |
| 18:09.08 | *** join/#utah RazberrieTart (n=SmexyTar@c-67-186-241-220.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.33 | brasto | goozbach thanks for the info, found some stuff on google about it. looks like its |
| 18:11.35 | levi | Hmm, this is an interesting ice cream scoop: http://www.wrapables.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=C57237&intpromo=C57237_KIT_123107 |
| 18:11.40 | brasto | 'doh |
| 18:11.47 | brac | [Cuisipro® Ice Cream Scoop & Stack at Wrapables - Cooks Tools] |
| 18:11.55 | brasto | the bottom of the touchpad |
| 18:12.14 | brasto | annoying until i know how to do it. now if i get used to it i may even like it... |
| 18:12.25 | brasto | if not, i'll turn the annoying thing off. |
| 18:16.08 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:16.08 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 18:27.50 | mrpull- | ha! Coates is back in PLUG. Oh boy... these threads may never end. |
| 18:28.02 | maquis | oh dear |
| 18:28.08 | maquis | he's back? |
| 18:30.58 | levi | mrpull-: Well, I'm done with them anyway. |
| 18:34.29 | mrpull- | PLUG: Come for the tech, stay for the crazy fringe banter |
| 18:39.13 | tensai | levi: there's a place here that sells square ice cream cones. must have a similar gadget. |
| 18:40.20 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (n=jalbrets@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:40.49 | tensai | why would my speakers be issuing an annoying high pitched tone and how would I go about stopping it? |
| 18:41.32 | levi | Electrical interference of some sort, I'd imagine. |
| 18:42.16 | mrpull- | tensai: is it the nasty sound that GSM phones make when they get close to speakers? |
| 18:42.38 | tensai | mrpull-: never heard that |
| 18:43.01 | tensai | it sounds like something was writing to the sound card and then freaked out and won't stop |
| 18:43.24 | mrpull- | ewww... so it just the PC speakers. |
| 18:43.40 | tensai | yeah |
| 18:43.55 | tensai | oh, well that stopped it. just had to make something else play sound. |
| 18:43.55 | mrpull- | I've observed the GSM annoyance in lots of places |
| 18:44.26 | mrpull- | once the organist at church had his phone on while playing.... |
| 18:44.28 | tensai | sound card must have had something stuck in its buffer |
| 18:44.36 | mrpull- | dit dit dit dat dit dit dtit ati dtat dat. |
| 18:44.38 | mrpull- | terrible |
| 18:45.29 | tensai | it was noticable over the sound of the organ? |
| 18:45.57 | elg | the best part of this insanity is that what chance is there that utah will be a swing state in any sense of the word? |
| 18:46.18 | elg | s/paul/obama/ as far as utah is concerned |
| 18:46.47 | mrpull- | yeah, the GSM makes noise and the electronics in the organ (it isn't a pipe organ) amplified it. |
| 18:46.55 | mrpull- | i've seen people at the pulpit do the same |
| 18:49.31 | elg | both levi and von are being irrational. there is utility in voting for a 3rd party (or for a democrat in utah) - people count the votes at the end. there isn't just "win" and "lose", you get actual values. and von is irrational because he believes everyone is evil. all voting is strategic. always. the problem is voting for people that you don't stand behind when that vote has no bearing on the winnings. if you slightly prefer obama over mccain but don't like |
| 18:50.14 | mrpull- | oh this is priceless. somebody made a ringtone of that annoying sound that amplified speakers make when a GSM phone is too close |
| 18:50.15 | mrpull- | http://www.feelingcingular.com/ |
| 18:50.22 | elg | and that's all I have to say. I didn't bother to send it to plug because sending another message to that sea (85 new mails today!) would be like casting a vote for a 3rd party. |
| 18:50.55 | mrpull- | elg: heheh... good point. |
| 18:52.57 | levi | elg: How am I being irrational? I said many times that you *might* want to not vote for the person you most agree with, and that a 3rd party vote will not *directly* affect the outcome of the vote, and that when you're not going to make a difference in the final outcome with your vote anyway, you might want to make a 3rd party vote. Sounds a lot like what you just said, I think. |
| 18:53.24 | elg | your irrationality is simply that you think voting is win/lose with no other effect |
| 18:53.31 | elg | maybe i misunderstood you |
| 18:53.41 | tensai | mrpull-: yeah, I've heard that sound before |
| 18:53.45 | levi | Yes, you misunderstood me. Or, I was not entirely clear in some of my emails. |
| 18:54.28 | elg | it seems obvious to me that if so and so gets 3% of the vote, he gets on the news. people see how well he did. they mock him even. whatever. his name gets out there. that can build momentum the next time |
| 18:54.45 | levi | There were a few where I wanted to emphasize that a 3rd party vote would not get your 3rd party elected, no matter whether you convinced 'strategic' voters to not vote strategically or not. |
| 18:54.47 | elg | and i agree with you that if you think it'll be close, cast your vote for the one you prefer of the two parties |
| 18:55.42 | elg | i don't think anyone's under the delusion that if everyone voted their conscience this election that mr. 3rd party would get elected. it takes years of true voting and lots of campaigning |
| 18:55.56 | levi | It seemed that Von thought Ron Paul might have actually won if everyone had voted according to how he was exhorting them to. |
| 18:56.35 | elg | i don't see, off the top of my head, what voting reform can be had though. I see the two-party system as a natural (mathematical if you wish) extension of the way people are wired. how do you reform that? make every third person vote for a 3rd party candidate? |
| 18:57.27 | mrpull- | elg: really? think people are only wired to choose between two options? |
| 18:58.05 | levi | No, it's not a result of how we're wired, but a result of how the system is set up. A preference ranking system could potentially produce very different results. |
| 18:58.40 | elg | not two specifically. there have been 3 or 4 parties in the past I think. but I believe math/people are wired to vote for moderate candidates. the parties essentially embrace some of the polar issues |
| 18:58.46 | levi | Maybe the final result would be similar, but the vote tally and its usefulness for changing platforms to match voter desires would be greatly increased. |
| 18:58.57 | elg | but polar issues (abortion, etc.) aside, both parties are very close to the middle |
| 18:59.00 | elg | you know, the bell curve |
| 18:59.01 | levi | elg: There have always been only 2 major parties here. |
| 18:59.16 | elg | levi: i wasn't sure |
| 18:59.27 | levi | I wasn't either, so I looked it up. |
| 18:59.44 | elg | my statistics professor went into the whole thing in detail. it was very convincing. the two party system (in america) is not some conspiricay. it's math. |
| 18:59.49 | levi | I think the largest 3rd party percentage was around 18% or so. |
| 18:59.50 | elg | it's reality |
| 19:00.27 | elg | even if you had three, if all three were more-or-less equally vying they would all be right there at the apex of the bell curve |
| 19:01.07 | elg | parties try to differentiate themselves on issues that people are divided on, usually stuff that people are passionate about on both sides |
| 19:01.41 | elg | if people weren't divided, it would take a stupid politician indeed to take the stance opposing the peoples' |
| 19:01.53 | elg | (not taking that stance until after the election, a different thing entirely) |
| 19:04.34 | elg | levi: i'll grant that about preference ranking or other voting systems that will never fly because joe sixpack would have to read a phamplet to understand them. |
| 19:05.28 | levi | Ranking by preference isn't terribly hard. Probably not going to happen, though. |
| 19:07.23 | elg | we're at the "serious effort to keep voting secure and unhacked" stage. |
| 19:07.37 | elg | but it's a nice dream. I'd love to be surprised |
| 19:07.58 | elg | it would work better, plus all the flame wars about strategic voting would go away |
| 19:08.02 | elg | what more could you ask for? :) |
| 19:08.27 | levi | Anyway, our current system has side effects, but we've had a long time to study them and be aware of them. Who knows what side effects a different voting scheme would have? |
| 19:10.48 | elg | the future. we need a time machine |
| 19:12.46 | levi | Indeed. |
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| 19:25.41 | brac | judo chops mstar |
| 19:25.51 | findlay-w | hello |
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| 19:48.32 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@mail.FYRENICE.COM) |
| 19:49.27 | bonez45 | how does one check one's site....to see how it's ranked, to evaluate a site and see how well it's tagged and constructed? |
| 19:49.38 | bonez45 | are there any common tools for checking on a site? |
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| 20:09.10 | tensai | elg: there are ways to make a system where 4, 5, or more parties can actually work. generally it means getting away from a winner-takes-all scheme. |
| 20:12.43 | elg | ~vote tensai |
| 20:13.33 | tensai | ~vote $elg is <action> stuffs $elg in a ballot box |
| 20:13.33 | ibot | okay, tensai |
| 20:18.30 | brasto | i have one student that wants to know more about how fragmentation effects databases in Linux. I've explained that fragmentation isn't as much of a problem in ext3, but he would like to know more. Any comments or recommended links? |
| 20:19.20 | elg | just hand him a defragmentation baby blanket |
| 20:19.50 | elg | tell him to run it once a week at 3am on sunday |
| 20:19.56 | brasto | that would be helpfull... |
| 20:20.09 | brasto | :) |
| 20:20.37 | brasto | what programs do we use in Linux to defrag? sfck does not have that word in it's man page... |
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| 20:20.53 | goozbach | brasto: which filesystem? |
| 20:21.05 | elg | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3#Defragmentation |
| 20:22.11 | tensai | brasto: the defragger for ext2/3 can only run if the filesystem is unmounted |
| 20:22.18 | tensai | in practice I've never had a reason to bother |
| 20:22.24 | elg | xfs has an online defragmenter |
| 20:22.46 | tensai | I thing fragmentation is a scape goat for general windows slowness |
| 20:22.46 | brasto | so, maybe use xfs for a database host? |
| 20:23.06 | elg | i found that my xfs drive (which I kept full to the brim for a long time) had fragmented to a significant degree when I learned about that and took a look |
| 20:23.38 | elg | maybe it wouldn't have been so much of an issue if I didn't keep it within 1G of full (it's an 80G drive) constantly, moving stuff in and out |
| 20:23.42 | elg | big stuff I should add |
| 20:24.01 | elg | anyway, i'm sure it depends on the usage pattern whether fragmentation could become an issue |
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| 20:28.33 | brasto | this guy works for Oracle, and he's wondering specifically about how fragmentation might effect db performance on Linux filesystems. |
| 20:28.57 | encryptz | linux fs don't suffer much from fragmentation |
| 20:29.04 | findlay-w | rsimkins may know stuff about that |
| 20:29.52 | encryptz | i tell my students to think in terms of file cabinets |
| 20:30.42 | encryptz | in vfat or ntfs, the first available space in the cabinet, we start placing part of the file. we find another avail spot, and place more of the file. we do this until the file is exhausted |
| 20:31.08 | encryptz | on ext2/ext3/xfs, etc, we look for the first available cabinet to fit all of the file |
| 20:31.33 | encryptz | the algorithm for finding space is completely different |
| 20:32.39 | levi | Dang it, I let myself get dragged back into the political discussion. |
| 20:33.20 | nick125 | takes a pair of wire cutters to levi's internet connection. |
| 20:33.25 | nick125 | There, no worries about that anymore. |
| 20:33.28 | levi | But at least I brought in the history of third parties, and the futility of expecting anything more from voting for them than getting particular issues adopted by major parties. |
| 20:34.44 | encryptz | brasto: however, if he is worried about fragmentation, then he should be more worried about disk space |
| 20:35.28 | encryptz | as the algorithm starts fragmenting the files as the storage becomes crammed |
| 20:36.09 | brasto | ah, that makes sense, thank you encryptz |
| 20:37.45 | elg | just tell him he needs a TB of RAM |
| 20:37.51 | elg | so that the whole db is cached |
| 20:38.55 | nick125 | is tempted to uninstall firefox.. |
| 20:39.22 | elg | why, is it fragmenting your hdd? |
| 20:39.56 | findlay-w | it's fragmenting his RAM |
| 20:40.24 | nick125 | Nah, just using several hundred megs of RAM when a webkit-based browser (with more tabs open, even) uses less than 100MB. |
| 20:41.34 | nick125 | I remember when the goal of Firefox was to make a lightweight browser that wasn't as bulky as Mozilla. |
| 20:42.24 | elg | ah, the ram argument. so I take it you're swapping |
| 20:42.37 | elg | thrashing, een. |
| 20:42.38 | nick125 | just a bit, yeah. |
| 20:42.52 | nick125 | I shouldn't need 2-3GB of RAM just to browse the web. |
| 20:43.47 | elg | i never cease to be amazed |
| 20:44.00 | elg | i'm all for firefox slimming down, losing memory leaks and bugs, etc. |
| 20:44.09 | elg | these can only be good things⢠|
| 20:44.26 | elg | but it's always a witch hunt with ff |
| 20:44.37 | jsmith | Yup |
| 20:44.41 | elg | all rationality out the window |
| 20:45.04 | elg | "firefox ate my dog!" "how can you know?" "it's taking 9 GB of virtual memory" |
| 20:45.28 | nick125 | Right, and Firefox 3 is supposed to be slimmer. Theoretically, Firefox 3 should be better than Firefox 2 (high version number means better, right?). But, in reality, it isn't. In my entirely unscientific tests, FF3 uses more RAM than FF2 for really no benefit. |
| 20:48.03 | findlay-w | nick125: nuh uh, you get that new, fancy location bar :) |
| 20:48.15 | ^Migs^ | If I wanted to do a live video stream from some remote place like the Sahara desert, what would I need? |
| 20:48.35 | ^Migs^ | could I tap into satellite networks or something? |
| 20:48.43 | findlay-w | well, first you would need to rent the Sahara desert |
| 20:48.54 | ^Migs^ | okay, not the Sahara. Let's say Stonehenge or something. |
| 20:49.03 | findlay-w | and I imagine that's not cheap, considering the price of desert these days |
| 20:49.15 | levi | Yow. Apparently one of my next-door neighbors was lifeflighted out of his home yesterday. Turns out he's got cancer all throughout his body. |
| 20:49.16 | nick125 | findlay-w: You mean the fancy location bar that floods a Linux system with fsync() requests by the hundreds? |
| 20:49.32 | findlay-w | nick125: haha, that's the one :) |
| 20:49.55 | levi | nick125: In reality, my thoroughly unscientific tests say Firefox 3 is way better than Firefox 2! |
| 20:50.07 | levi | Your reality must be wrong. |
| 20:50.30 | RyanE | levi: coincidence. my neighbor's kid got life-flighted out of their home Saturday, head injury. |
| 20:51.36 | levi | Well, hopefully the neighbor kid will recover. I'm afraid there's not much hope for my neighbor. |
| 20:52.13 | RyanE | yeah, I haven't heard an update yet, went to primary children's. |
| 21:08.51 | Tene | levi: how did they find out? |
| 21:10.54 | maquis | levi: that sucks |
| 21:11.56 | elg | tensai: I just found out something cool about aeolus |
| 21:12.04 | elg | ctrl-click on a stop |
| 21:12.29 | tensai | what does that do? I can't run aeolus right now. |
| 21:12.30 | levi | Tene: I don't know, I heard about it from my wife who heard about it from another neighbor. |
| 21:12.40 | elg | the suspense will kill you |
| 21:12.44 | elg | and I will inherit your smoker |
| 21:13.16 | tensai | it comes with a huge fire liability |
| 21:13.46 | elg | are you threatening retribution from the spirit world? |
| 21:14.07 | findlay-w | you better inherit his fire insurance too |
| 21:15.56 | maquis | ~aeolus |
| 21:16.05 | maquis | ~wiki aeolus |
| 21:16.32 | Jayce^ | tensai, elg, speaking of smokers.. a friend on my team works at a cabinet shop, has a bunch of little scraps of alder, cherry, hickory, etc.. :) |
| 21:16.43 | maquis | ooh |
| 21:16.51 | Jayce^ | I asked if I could bring a truck :) |
| 21:17.03 | findlay-w | alder burns really hot and bright and clean |
| 21:17.05 | *** join/#utah talkingDOWNTOWN (n=Cuban@dhcp189.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:17.13 | elg | -google aeolus linux |
| 21:17.14 | brac | aeolus linux: not found! |
| 21:17.22 | elg | whatever, dumb bot |
| 21:17.27 | findlay-w | don't know if you can get much smoke out of alder |
| 21:18.04 | Jayce^ | sure you can, just gotta be more careful about flames |
| 21:18.17 | findlay-w | hm |
| 21:18.43 | *** topic/#utah by talkingDOWNTOWN -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Registration now open @ http://2008.utosc.com | Always inappropriate |
| 21:19.19 | findlay-w | ~vote levi |
| 21:19.19 | ibot | ACTION stuffs levi in a ballot box |
| 21:20.20 | *** part/#utah talkingDOWNTOWN (n=Cuban@dhcp189.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:30.07 | tensai | Jayce^: that's awesome |
| 21:30.36 | tensai | Jayce^: a big chunk of my neighbor's tree broke off last fall during a wind storm. it's maple, so I asked if I could collect some. |
| 21:30.46 | Jayce^ | mm, good maple |
| 21:30.50 | findlay-w | tensai: going to make a violin? |
| 21:31.22 | tensai | findlay-w: shall I make you a viola too, while I'm at it? |
| 21:31.27 | findlay-w | sure |
| 21:31.38 | findlay-w | the wood needs to be aged at least 40 years though |
| 21:32.29 | tensai | I'll let you know if any survives 39 1/2 more years |
| 21:32.49 | tensai | there's a good chance it'll go into my tummy though |
| 21:34.05 | tensai | Jayce^: I wanted to take more, and there was plenty, but I would have needed a chainsaw |
| 21:34.59 | Jayce^ | aaaaaand? |
| 21:35.12 | tensai | and I don't have one |
| 21:36.01 | tensai | and I was too lazy to borrow one |
| 21:36.11 | tensai | plus it was cold and there were wolves after me |
| 21:37.08 | whiteley | bloody stop with the Ron Paul thread already. |
| 21:41.01 | Jayce^ | whiteley, but if he keeps trying, he's sure you'll start agreeing with him :) |
| 21:41.11 | Jayce^ | tensai, so that's why you needed a gun with you :-p |
| 21:41.19 | jalbretsen | delete delete |
| 21:41.30 | findlay-w | baleeted |
| 21:41.30 | tensai | Jayce^: how would a gun help me chop wood? |
| 21:41.42 | Jayce^ | tensai, for the wolves |
| 21:41.51 | tensai | ah |
| 21:42.09 | elg | unless you can get the wolves to help you chop wood |
| 21:42.14 | elg | at gunpoint perhaps? |
| 21:45.09 | RazberrieTart | Worth a shot :D |
| 21:45.18 | RazberrieTart | 'groan goan' The pun, it was right there, sorry. |
| 21:48.58 | findlay-w | ha ha |
| 21:52.24 | levi | I dunno, I don't think the wolf would be likely to help you chop the wood after you shot it. |
| 22:00.07 | levi | Anyway, I'm taking off for a long weekend vacation. Hopefully the political thread on PLUG will be dead by the time I return. |
| 22:00.34 | levi | I apologize to those annoyed by it. |
| 22:01.39 | RazberrieTart | Have fun levi :) |
| 22:08.27 | elg | levi: be sure to listen to $TALK_SHOW while you're gone, so that you can jump right back in. ;-) |
| 22:09.14 | findlay-w | haha |
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| 22:11.27 | ^Migs^ | http://www.spore.com/sporepedia#qry=ast-500001001243%3Asast-500001001243 |
| 22:11.32 | ^Migs^ | Spore Xbox 360 controller creature |
| 22:11.45 | *** part/#utah jfarnsworth (n=jfarnswo@64.0.192.123) |
| 22:18.00 | elg | and that's cool because... |
| 22:18.21 | ^Migs^ | did I say it was cool? |
| 22:18.26 | findlay-w | ~cool |
| 22:18.27 | ibot | from memory, cool is there, there, everything is going to fix out |
| 22:18.52 | ^Migs^ | maybe I thought it was so horrifically stupid I just had to post it |
| 22:29.40 | tensai | if I worked for actiontec, I think I would be too ashamed to admit it |
| 22:30.36 | nick125 | tensai: Same applies if you worked for Zoom. |
| 22:30.52 | nick125 | Even worse, Zoom QA department. |
| 22:45.10 | tensai | I spent the last few days fighting a dsl because the modem would forget its static IP address if the power went out |
| 22:45.26 | tensai | not really forget, I guess. it was still in the config. the modem just refused to use it. |
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| 23:52.14 | Tene | http://use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/36731 -- rakudo got Role composition at runtime, generic subs/methods, and anonymous enums today. |