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| 01:23.47 | lakshmi | i want a new phone! |
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| 02:14.27 | levi | I want an iPhone, if someone will pay the cell plan for me. :P |
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| 02:26.37 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
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| 02:35.11 | nick125 | <3 his cisco IP phone |
| 02:44.53 | RyanE | "My way is not very Sportsmanlike..." |
| 02:49.49 | sjansen | "Anybody want a peanut?" |
| 02:53.07 | Heartsbane | ? |
| 02:54.29 | sjansen | Heartsbane: "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die." |
| 02:55.04 | Heartsbane | haha |
| 02:55.25 | Heartsbane | sjansen: I just made the connection |
| 02:55.47 | sjansen | If you only recognize the most famous quotes, you haven't watched Princess Bride enough times yet. |
| 02:55.58 | RyanE | "fighting gangs for local charities, that sort of thing..." |
| 02:56.32 | Heartsbane | sjansen: its been a while |
| 02:57.09 | sjansen | For shame. I hereby declare you must watch it again this weekend, no excuses. |
| 02:57.29 | Heartsbane | sjansen: k I will get a copy from the full demo network |
| 02:58.07 | Heartsbane | I gave my copy to my nephew years ago |
| 02:59.31 | sjansen | What, you don't own at least 3 in case of emergency? |
| 02:59.46 | sjansen | revokes Heartsbane's geek credentials |
| 03:00.18 | Heartsbane | ya I even gave him my copy of "Uncle Buck" ... I miss that one most of all |
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| 03:28.11 | Supaplex | -excuse |
| 03:28.11 | brac | Program load too heavy for processor to lift. |
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| 13:13.46 | Sargun_screen | I'm watching Juno. |
| 13:14.42 | Sargun_screen | This is a bit painful |
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| 13:40.24 | elg | -chat |
| 13:40.24 | brac | ehh, little on bandwidth costs |
| 13:42.34 | jsmith | -chat the worst |
| 13:42.35 | brac | the worst cooked jumbo shrimp or lobster I'd ever say favourite again |
| 13:42.51 | jsmith | Mmmmn... shrimp and lobster... |
| 13:47.28 | Sargun_screen | Sounds good. |
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| 14:05.57 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 14:05.57 | brac | puts Icy-Hot in tensai's lip balm |
| 14:06.33 | tensai | bakes a cheesecake and doesn't offer any to elg |
| 14:07.39 | eggyknap | elg: after the discussion on organs yesterday, I realized I could pimp my crappy old hammond without (hopefully) loads of trouble with a few microcontrollers that would feed keypress info into a linux box running aeolus |
| 14:07.52 | elg | totally |
| 14:08.19 | elg | i mentally figured out how to do it with an arduino and a few simple electronics |
| 14:08.43 | eggyknap | But I'd have to learn how to program a microcontroller (presumably not hard) and find one that would support a couple hundred inputs (presumably one per switch) |
| 14:09.00 | eggyknap | where switch == a key, a pedal, or whatever other switches I feel like using. |
| 14:09.13 | eggyknap | Plus something slightly different for the expression shoes. |
| 14:09.56 | elg | that's the trick. some may remember my musings on the subject a few months ago |
| 14:10.31 | elg | an arduino has nowhere near the several hundred inputs you'd need (nor does much anything else) |
| 14:11.47 | elg | but if you use a binary encoding and scan the inputs you make better use of the inputs |
| 14:12.38 | elg | still need to have some kind of selecting doo hickey. i forgot all the terminology already :) |
| 14:13.39 | elg | luckily I made notes. jas |
| 14:15.34 | elg | http://pastie.org/212974 |
| 14:16.39 | eggyknap | w00t... and yeah, encoding the keys is prolly the way to go. |
| 14:16.54 | eggyknap | knows nearly nothing about how to do such things, but guesses he could figure it out. |
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| 14:19.06 | elg | the only concern I have is whether you can scan all the inputs fast enough to not miss a quick trill note or something. I'm fairly confident that it won't be a problem but haven't convinced myself fully yet |
| 14:20.12 | elg | i know next to nothing about microcontrollers and electronics too, but I think I could pick up enough to do it. but now that I have a midi organ (albeit 800 miles away) I'm less motivated. I have thought about building a pedal board though |
| 14:20.21 | elg | out of some 1-by's |
| 14:23.45 | eggyknap | elg: make sure to mount them so they curve upward a bit toward the left and right sides of the board. It's so much easier to play that way. |
| 14:23.55 | eggyknap | thx for the paste, btw |
| 14:27.03 | elg | let's see, that would probably be on the order of 300 instructions per scan, at 20 mhz, so .015 ms - even if that's off by a factor of 10 seems like plenty fast |
| 14:27.16 | eggyknap | one interesting side effect would be that my organ would suddenly become a few lbs. lighter, which is nice since I'm in a top-floor condo I'll likely move out of in a while. |
| 14:28.00 | elg | i've spent considerable time practicing on an old-style tracker organ with a flat pedalboard. definitely takes some getting used to but I think the simplification in construction would be worth it for me |
| 14:28.32 | elg | ideally one would find a used AGO-spec pedalboard |
| 14:29.37 | elg | if you do it, keep me in the loop |
| 14:31.15 | tensai | elg: I ended up downloading most of your website yesterday instead of just the mp3s I wanted |
| 14:34.49 | eggyknap | elg: Will do. But I'll probably build the carbon-fiber recumbent bike first :) Which is another thing I need to learn how to do... |
| 14:42.22 | elg | tensai: heh |
| 14:47.03 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 14:47.25 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Call for Papers @http://2008.utosc.com | Everybody Loves Hypnotoad |
| 14:50.33 | sjansen | ~lart FF3 |
| 14:50.33 | ibot | gives FF3 a good seeing to |
| 14:51.28 | sjansen | F9 is not among the better Fedora releases. Here's hoping they'll do better for F10 and use that for RHEL6. |
| 14:52.06 | Heartsbane | what is up with F9 |
| 14:52.19 | Heartsbane | why would you say that? |
| 14:52.44 | Heartsbane | just FF3? or other reasons? |
| 14:53.46 | encryptz | eagerly awaits sjansens reply |
| 14:54.44 | sjansen | So far I've been blaming all my load problems on FF3, but I'm starting to suspect that X is also borked. |
| 14:55.44 | goozbach | sjansen: you're seeing "locking" like issues |
| 14:55.45 | sjansen | Apparently Fedora shipped an unfinished Xorg server with known blocker bugs. |
| 14:55.50 | sjansen | Yeah. |
| 14:55.54 | goozbach | me too |
| 14:56.38 | Heartsbane | blames herlo. |
| 14:57.24 | sjansen | Normally I don't mind a few problems with Fedora, that's the price of being cutting edge, but the FF3 load and X locking is making it really hard to do Web development. |
| 14:58.21 | encryptz | does fedora freeze their release versions on packages, or are they rolling? |
| 14:59.25 | sjansen | Hybrid, but mostly rolling. |
| 15:00.26 | sjansen | A major change like Perl 5.8 -> 5.10 or Python 2.4 -> 2.5 has to wait, but less critical packages are allowed to roll. |
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| 15:17.22 | levi | Good morning. |
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| 15:32.11 | bonez44 | how might one search among several mutt mailboxes..on a keyword or words...? I received an email within the last two weeks, likely in mutt....which had some links to books I wanted to buy..I didn't follow the links and place the order as I should have..and now I can't find the links or the original email..though I believe i saved it |
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| 15:43.29 | Sargun | grep |
| 15:45.00 | goozbach | > |
| 15:45.20 | goozbach | Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... |
| 15:45.20 | goozbach | Try `grep --help' for more information. |
| 15:45.29 | Sargun | rm -rf / |
| 15:45.35 | goozbach | > |
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| 15:46.41 | *** mode/#utah [+v goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 15:46.44 | sjansen | No! You killed goozbach! |
| 15:47.02 | Sargun | hehe |
| 15:47.03 | sjansen | ~punish Sargun |
| 15:47.03 | ibot | ACTION forces Sargun to install and use Windows |
| 15:47.04 | goozbach | I have you know, I'm REALLY dedicated to my humor |
| 15:47.29 | goozbach | I wish I could have been there to see my quit message |
| 15:48.02 | Sargun | Usually an rm -rf / won't result in a quit |
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| 15:48.41 | goozbach | yeah, a ping timeout but I'm not THAT dedicated to my humor. |
| 15:49.01 | Sargun | goozbach, I don't even think a ping time out. |
| 15:49.24 | encryptz | i'm having a hard time believing that 'rm -rf /' results in a "Read error: 124 (Connection reset by peer)" for goozbach |
| 15:49.36 | sjansen | <-- goozbach has quit ("Read error: 124 (Connection reset by peer)") |
| 15:49.43 | encryptz | rm -rf / |
| 15:49.49 | encryptz | waits |
| 15:50.23 | sjansen | Sargun: It could if there were watchdog hardware. |
| 15:50.48 | Sargun | Do you think goozbach runs watchdog hardware? |
| 15:51.19 | sjansen | It wouldn't surprise me. goozbach has become uber-admin. |
| 15:51.28 | sjansen | He probably has his own OC-3 straight to his desk. |
| 15:51.50 | fozzmoo | I used to have my dog stand up on her back legs and I'd hold her front legs straight out in front of her and wave them up and down and I'd say, "I am robot dog. I am robot dog." |
| 15:51.59 | Sargun | Heh. |
| 16:04.58 | findlay | goozbach: I figured out my topic angst |
| 16:05.45 | findlay | whenever somebody changes the topic I'll have an irssi plugin that knows the topic and when it changes, it prints out the old one :) |
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| 16:11.46 | *** topic/#utah by encryptz -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Call for Papers @http://2008.utosc.com | Everybody loves findlay |
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| 16:17.10 | tensai | ~lart flash |
| 16:17.10 | ibot | squishes flash like a bug |
| 16:20.33 | encryptz | ~lart flash forever |
| 16:20.33 | ibot | wallops flash forever with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long |
| 16:20.45 | unum | got invited to #victoriassecret |
| 16:21.07 | encryptz | heh |
| 16:21.14 | encryptz | and what's the "secret" |
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| 16:28.50 | sjansen | http://www.revolutionvoid.com/ |
| 16:28.53 | brac | [TV Browser Compilation Features R.V. Song | Revolution Void: Nu-Jazz Breakbeat] |
| 16:31.22 | dataw0lf | Mornin' |
| 16:35.10 | dataw0lf | Ah, gas prices a point of discussion on PLUG. Awesome. |
| 16:35.16 | dataw0lf | >_< |
| 16:38.24 | unum | the great thing about the invite was it talked about how men could wear bra's too |
| 16:38.45 | unum | I don't think I'm even anywhere near an A cup |
| 16:39.23 | sjansen | Be sure to download the FLAC version of Increase the Dosage. Good stuff. |
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| 16:44.49 | levi | unum: It's the bro! |
| 17:00.53 | levi | I so want to reply to Von's latest email with 'Von is a doo-doo head.' but that would just be inviting even more noise. :) |
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| 17:12.06 | levi | Interesting... ACM is updating their curriculum recommendations, and the outcome of a recent workshop on Programming Languages in the Curriculum at Harvard was to make a proposal that gives Functional Programming the same amount of credit hours as Object-Oriented Programming. |
| 17:12.37 | levi | http://wiki.acm.org/cs2001/index.php?title=SIGPLAN_Proposal |
| 17:14.49 | eggyknap | Woah, teach functional programming? But what good is functional programming? </sarcasm> |
| 17:15.27 | eggyknap | Also comforting, they didn't spell it "object-orientated" |
| 17:15.49 | levi | Well, teaching it as a core part of the curriculum would combat that kind of ignorance. As it is, it's lightly covered in one or maybe two classes, and that just reinforces the supposed lack of importance. |
| 17:16.33 | ECRS401 | anyone in here know a way for a bad credit loan? interest rate is not a option, just need a loan |
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| 17:17.01 | eggyknap | Even if you're not using a functional language, lambdas and stuff like foldl/foldr are really *really* useful and common. |
| 17:17.35 | levi | eggyknap: Yeah, both object-oriented and functional design transcend language. |
| 17:18.18 | levi | ECRS401: Well, there's always the payday loan places that exist all over the place, though I hate to recommend supporting those places. |
| 17:18.49 | ECRS401 | payday loan place wont loan the amount i need |
| 17:19.20 | levi | Sorry, I don't really know, aside from hitting up a family member that trusts you. |
| 17:19.36 | ECRS401 | their credit is worse then mine, they cant co-sign |
| 17:19.49 | ECRS401 | otherwise i wouldnt be asking on irc for options, lol |
| 17:20.59 | levi | Well, I hope that in addition to looking for this loan in the short term, you look at fixing your credit. I had bad credit without knowing it due to some stuff that happened outside of my knowledge, and it took a bit of work to get it taken care of. |
| 17:21.46 | ECRS401 | thats part of getting the loan, to fix what is on our credit already |
| 17:22.11 | tensai | if a payday loan place won't lend you that much, that's a good thing. those places charge outrages interest rates. 300% and higher. |
| 17:24.13 | levi | Do you need the loan for something in particular, or just for credit repair purposes? There are a lot of places that advertise bad credit car loans. |
| 17:25.16 | ECRS401 | to pay off our current loans, to move into a new apt (due to fearing for our safety at this one), and to repair our credit |
| 17:25.28 | ECRS401 | if we include EVERY thing, its a lil over $8000 |
| 17:25.35 | levi | Have you looked at debt consolidation services? |
| 17:25.40 | ECRS401 | if we leave off the credit crap, $5000 min |
| 17:25.50 | ECRS401 | no one will approve us for debt consolidation |
| 17:26.06 | ECRS401 | our bank has denied us, and citifinancial has denied us |
| 17:26.14 | ECRS401 | and no one "knows" of anywhere else we can try |
| 17:26.15 | levi | Heh, I thought the whole point of those was to help people in situations like that. |
| 17:27.13 | JoshH | just stop living in a huge house that you don't need, and ditch the hummer for a smaller vehicle! |
| 17:27.32 | ECRS401 | huge house? yea right, i wish, im in a dinky apt |
| 17:27.38 | ECRS401 | hummer, even bigger dream |
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| 17:29.07 | levi | Hmm, apparently some law firms offer debt consolidation programs. |
| 17:30.29 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=woodsdog@nat/novell/x-df73c1bafa843ab7) |
| 17:30.50 | levi | This looks like an interesting resource: http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/ |
| 17:30.51 | Jayce^ | ECRS401, there's prosper.com |
| 17:32.35 | levi | The debt consolidation loans at the banks you went to were probably just home equity loans, which would explain why you wouldn't qualify. |
| 17:32.44 | ECRS401 | At Prosper, we're excited that you have joined our community loan marketplace. |
| 17:32.44 | ECRS401 | However, if you've missed a few payments on recent bills, you may find it difficult to attract bids from Prosper lenders. |
| 17:33.08 | ECRS401 | levi, no they put them under a personal loan |
| 17:33.55 | Jayce^ | yeah, it's a market economy, but if you're willing, you tend to get better results there than other places |
| 17:34.54 | ECRS401 | Jayce^, it wont even let me continue at that point |
| 17:34.58 | ECRS401 | gives me that msg, and nothing |
| 17:35.01 | Jayce^ | interesting |
| 17:35.47 | Jayce^ | never approached it from that side, so can't comment |
| 17:36.59 | findlay | but Jayce^ has a backdoor for you :) |
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| 17:37.38 | matraxionist_31 | hellooooo |
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| 17:41.33 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
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| 17:42.36 | elg | neato, I have $7500 worth of dental work suggested |
| 17:43.25 | Jayce^ | *eek* |
| 17:43.33 | levi | Yow. |
| 17:43.50 | elg | stupid fillings expanding and causing teeth to begin cracking, decay etc. several crowns and some fillings |
| 17:43.50 | levi | Is this orthodontic stuff, or what? |
| 17:44.22 | levi | Crazy. I don't imagine you have great dental insurance, either. |
| 17:44.46 | elg | as in nil |
| 17:45.26 | levi | I don't suppose there's any way the dentist would work a deal with you in that light? |
| 17:46.11 | elg | maybe, and they have payment plans, but I talked to them about it and although it would be nice to get it done now, a lot of it can wait a year until I have insurance and cash |
| 17:46.46 | elg | if I'm careful with hard stuff so that I don't break a tooth |
| 17:48.11 | elg | and brush, floss, etc. |
| 17:48.12 | levi | Yow. Well, at least you've only got a year to wait for insurance and cash. :) |
| 17:52.50 | jsmith | elg: Only $7500, eh? My total came to more than double that :-( |
| 17:56.35 | sjansen | The whole point of debt consolidation is turning a profit. Gotta be careful about who you turn to. |
| 17:58.11 | ECRS401 | sjansen, i agree, and thats fine, we can fix what we have, pay on that for awhile, and have it re-financed at a lower rate down the road |
| 17:58.34 | ECRS401 | its just getting someone willing to approve us |
| 17:58.40 | sjansen | Have you considered selling a relative into slavery? |
| 17:58.58 | ECRS401 | just one? lol |
| 18:00.11 | sjansen | I know! Get accepted into college and apply for student loans! |
| 18:00.18 | ECRS401 | haha |
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| 18:01.05 | ECRS401 | i have less then 1 month to find something or we are on the street, college and student loans would take too long |
| 18:01.08 | goozbach | ECRS401: you have car payments? |
| 18:01.17 | ECRS401 | yea |
| 18:01.24 | goozbach | sell them and pay cash for a car |
| 18:01.26 | ECRS401 | $370/mo |
| 18:01.34 | goozbach | cheap, reliable car |
| 18:01.39 | goozbach | cut up your credit cards |
| 18:01.44 | ECRS401 | i have no credit cards |
| 18:01.46 | goozbach | get on a written budget |
| 18:02.04 | goozbach | where the money is spend on paper, on purpose, before the month's paycheck arrives. |
| 18:02.16 | goozbach | don't eat out *EVER* again |
| 18:02.20 | goozbach | take your lunch to work |
| 18:03.00 | goozbach | fix the problem, not the solution. |
| 18:03.00 | goozbach | s/solution/symptom/ |
| 18:03.01 | ECRS401 | what lunch to work? we barely even have ramen left in the house |
| 18:03.17 | goozbach | get a job delivering pizza |
| 18:03.24 | ECRS401 | i have a job |
| 18:03.30 | ECRS401 | your the 2nd person to say get a job |
| 18:03.42 | levi | Well, buying groceries is certainly more cost-effective than eating out at lunch. |
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| 18:03.43 | ECRS401 | we both have jobs |
| 18:03.44 | sjansen | get a better job ;-) |
| 18:03.59 | goozbach | you can earn approx $1000/week delivering pizza |
| 18:04.19 | ECRS401 | yea, if you do it full time, im already working full time |
| 18:04.24 | ECRS401 | barely have time to sleep as it is |
| 18:04.36 | goozbach | get a better/different job |
| 18:04.41 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:04.46 | ECRS401 | im currently making $11.50/hr |
| 18:04.58 | ECRS401 | at the rate the economy is going, im not going to get much better |
| 18:05.00 | sjansen | What are you skills? |
| 18:05.13 | goozbach | unemployment is pretty low in Utah, you should be able to shop around and get a pretty good job. |
| 18:05.26 | goozbach | companies are starving for *GOOD* employees right now |
| 18:05.55 | ECRS401 | skills......8 years in volunteer EMS (doesnt not carry into UT), 2 years in volunteer fire (again doesnt carry over), 18+ years self taught with computer, A+ and Dell certs, and 1 year in Security |
| 18:06.15 | sjansen | What do you know about Linux? |
| 18:06.32 | ECRS401 | enough to use it and basic support |
| 18:06.54 | ECRS401 | have used it since red hat 5.1 |
| 18:07.43 | goozbach | http://health.utah.gov/ems/certif/ |
| 18:07.44 | brac | [Utah Dept of Health, Bureau of EMS, Certification] |
| 18:08.10 | ECRS401 | that is only if i already had my EMT-Basic (at the min) to transfer over, i did not have that back home |
| 18:08.24 | ECRS401 | if i want it here, i have to pay the $900 for the 6 month class |
| 18:08.40 | ECRS401 | i already looked into EMS when i moved here |
| 18:10.48 | findlay | hm, ff3-rc1 seems to be a little snappier than beta5 |
| 18:11.06 | findlay | especially the Enterprise grade address bar |
| 18:11.24 | goozbach | FYI delivering pizza (if you get $1000/week in tips) averages out to $20/hr |
| 18:11.43 | findlay | but all that driving? |
| 18:13.04 | ECRS401 | yep, you spend half of it in gas (now past $4 a gallon) and the other half on keeping the car running from all the wear and tear on ti |
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| 18:15.45 | goozbach | then sell your car, and pay cash for one which will do a good enough job to get you through. |
| 18:15.54 | goozbach | you need to do something drastic it sounds like |
| 18:16.10 | goozbach | using a loan shark is only going to exasterbate your problem |
| 18:16.53 | ECRS401 | i just got the car, i dont want to sell it |
| 18:17.01 | ECRS401 | was a pain in the a$$ to get it |
| 18:17.24 | goozbach | sounds like you can't afford it then |
| 18:17.33 | findlay | well, you can always bring it to me when it breaks down :) |
| 18:17.49 | ECRS401 | i can fix a car if it breaks down, thats easy stuff |
| 18:17.57 | levi | Well, you may end up living in it, so I hope you do like it. :P |
| 18:18.14 | findlay | the broken cars, I enfixes them |
| 18:20.04 | goozbach | I've given you my advice. Which FYI is coming from a guy who relied on his company provided gym access to shower(cause he couldn't pay his gas bill), and didn't eat lunch for a month. All because he "HAD" to buy a fancy new dell server. |
| 18:20.29 | goozbach | you need to change something. I wish you luck |
| 18:20.59 | findlay | so what happened to the dell server? |
| 18:21.14 | findlay | did you make any money with it? :) |
| 18:22.05 | JoshH | goozbach good idea, that's how i'll afford my pc upgrade |
| 18:22.15 | goozbach | findlay: yes I did |
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| 18:29.05 | thaddeusq | ECRS401: how about cut off the internet? That should save some bucks each month. |
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| 18:35.04 | elg | tensai: ready for your stops lecture? |
| 18:35.11 | tensai | elg: sure |
| 18:35.41 | findlay | grabs sjansen's cookie jar and a blanket and sits on the rug in front of elg for the stop lecture |
| 18:35.50 | elg | in the beginning there was a pipe |
| 18:36.01 | elg | and someone blew air through it and it made noise |
| 18:36.12 | elg | then they hooked up keyboards and had igor pump bellows |
| 18:36.16 | elg | and called it an organ |
| 18:36.54 | elg | the stereotypical round pipe with an open top and little mouth, usually made of metal, make the stereotypical organ sound |
| 18:37.27 | elg | they're called diapason or principal. of course each pipe in a rank of pipes is its own note, determined by its length |
| 18:38.08 | elg | an 8' stop is one where the longest pipe is 8' long, and it corresponds to "unison", or the regular keyboard pitch (eg like you'd hear on a piano) |
| 18:38.12 | goozbach | yay Stories! |
| 18:38.37 | thaddeusq | has flashbacks to a "How It's Made" episode. |
| 18:38.56 | goozbach | dreams of pipe organ assembly lines |
| 18:39.05 | elg | so on aeolus, kb I which I'll refer to as the "great", has principal 8 and 4 and octave 2 and 1. the 4' rank is an octave above the 8' rank, the 2' rank an octave above that, etc. |
| 18:39.19 | findlay | what about 16' and 32'? |
| 18:39.27 | elg | so the principal/octave pipes are the diapasons and collectively referred to as the principal chorus |
| 18:39.35 | elg | 16' is an octave below 8' |
| 18:39.36 | elg | etc. |
| 18:39.45 | elg | some organs even have 64 |
| 18:40.28 | elg | now if you make pipes different shapes or cover the ends or out of different materials, you get different kinds of sounds. the second major family of sounds are flute-like sounds |
| 18:40.56 | elg | the flotes on aeolus are obviously flutes |
| 18:41.15 | elg | so is the tibia |
| 18:41.44 | elg | then there are pipes that have a vibrating reed, more like a clarinet than a flute |
| 18:41.59 | elg | they tend to make louder, brighter sounds like brass or reed instruments |
| 18:42.28 | elg | trumpet, krumhorn, bumbardw, trombone, fagott, oboe are all reeds |
| 18:43.40 | findlay | but the trumpet 'pipes' are bell shaped, right? |
| 18:43.43 | elg | there are also stops that try to imitate string instruments, like viol* or gamba |
| 18:44.51 | elg | the aeolus organ doesn't really have any of those though |
| 18:45.56 | elg | anything with roman numerals is a mixture or harmonic stop. they are actually a bunch of ranks together that play different harmonics, like fifth, third, seventh, etc. |
| 18:46.04 | elg | they add brightness |
| 18:46.11 | elg | cymbel and mixtur on this organ |
| 18:46.48 | elg | then there are harmonic stops that have one specific harmonic, like all the stuff with fractions. nasard 2 2/3 is a 2 2/3 foot stop, which is an octave and a fifth above 8' |
| 18:46.54 | elg | 5 1/3 is a fifth above |
| 18:47.02 | elg | iirc |
| 18:47.18 | elg | septime has something to do with 7th, none with ninth, etc. |
| 18:47.35 | elg | the brown buttons are couplers. I+II means any stops pulled on division II will sound when you play division I |
| 18:47.40 | findlay | elg: but the harmonic 7th is very flat |
| 18:48.04 | elg | so, on how to use them... |
| 18:49.17 | elg | for a traditional organ sound, you want principals. for a soft sound you want flutes. for interesting solos and colour, you want reeds. you almost always want to combine stops to give just the kind of tone you're looking for. principal and flute choruses are common. for a nice big sound, principal chorus, flute chorus, and mixtures and maybe a trumpet |
| 18:49.39 | elg | sometimes you build up like a pyramid, several 8' stops, fewer 4' stops, maybe 1 2' stop |
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| 18:49.58 | elg | other times you want a very clear, transparent sound and you build vertically. one 8', one 4', one 2', etc. |
| 18:50.06 | elg | sometimes an 8' and 2' gives a more open, clear sound |
| 18:50.17 | elg | essentially, it's an exercise in combinatorics :) |
| 18:50.31 | findlay | stop algebras |
| 18:51.07 | elg | http://organ.byu.edu/ |
| 18:51.36 | elg | in the online reference materials, there's lots of good info, including guidelines for hymn registration and encyclopedia of stops and registration shortcuts |
| 18:51.47 | elg | i like to think of the organ as a big mechanical synthesizer |
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| 19:03.49 | tensai | elg: what's a registration? |
| 19:04.52 | tensai | so each key on the organ keyboard plays a different pipe, one that's tuned to that specific pitch? |
| 19:05.17 | elg | a registration is just the state of the stops |
| 19:05.21 | elg | which ones are pulled or not |
| 19:05.28 | tensai | does each stop on the organ mean there's an entire set of pipes designed for that sound, each tuned to all the different notes? |
| 19:05.51 | elg | each stop on the console stops or unstops a rank of pipes |
| 19:06.01 | elg | one for each note |
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| 19:06.21 | elg | so if you have a principal 8 and the trumpet 8 pulled, then each key you press sounds two pipes at once |
| 19:06.25 | levi | So each key corresponds to a note, and which pipes play depends on the stops that are pulled? |
| 19:06.30 | elg | yup |
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| 19:06.57 | elg | in software terms, the keyboard is loosely coupled to the pipes |
| 19:07.52 | levi | And the multi-tiered keyboards are because there are just a lot of notes available? |
| 19:08.05 | elg | each keyboard (and pedalboard) is called a division |
| 19:08.55 | tensai | that's so you can have multiple registrations active at the same time, right? |
| 19:09.04 | elg | the stops are organized by division. in some cases you have access to the same rank of pipes from different divisions, in which case you'd have two stops on the console with the same name, one in each division |
| 19:09.15 | elg | but this is rare, and mostly the purview of electronic organs |
| 19:09.35 | findlay | but on a real organ you can't assign arbitrary ranks to arbitrary keyboards |
| 19:09.39 | elg | so if you want to use, say the krumhorn, you would have to use the division that has the krumhorn |
| 19:09.49 | findlay | but there are couplers |
| 19:09.52 | elg | sure you can, if it has electronic action |
| 19:10.11 | findlay | elg: even then your church organ will try to imitate the real thing |
| 19:10.13 | levi | elg: Organs with electronic action must not be *real* organs. ;) |
| 19:10.14 | elg | yes, you can couple things. in the old mechanical organs the couplers would actually play the keys on the other keyboard. like the ghost and mister chicken |
| 19:10.36 | elg | almost all modern organs, even purely pipe ones, have electronic action |
| 19:10.47 | levi | I hate Don Knotts. :P |
| 19:11.04 | findlay | elg: yeah, but show me a console that lets you assign arbitrary ranks to arbitrary keyboards |
| 19:11.07 | elg | but yes, it's more common that stops are generally only available on their respective divisions |
| 19:11.18 | elg | lets who? |
| 19:11.27 | elg | someone did just that |
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| 19:11.55 | encryptz | i need a good pair of organ shoes |
| 19:11.55 | elg | the real issue is that you have to put labels on the stops, and what UI would you have? |
| 19:12.14 | elg | but our stake center organ has these little memory cards that you can put in and it completely changes the stops |
| 19:12.17 | levi | A patchboard! :) |
| 19:12.28 | findlay | the organization of ranks by type is purely traditional |
| 19:12.45 | tensai | how many pipes are typically in a rank? 88? |
| 19:12.51 | elg | obviously it doesn't rewrite the labels on the stops |
| 19:13.02 | findlay | elg: you mean those plastic punch cards? :) Your stake center organ must seriously be old |
| 19:13.09 | elg | organ keyboards are generally 61 keys. I'd think 61 would be normal, but it can depend |
| 19:13.34 | elg | some ranks cover several stops, e.g. the principal 8 and 4 would be one continuous rank |
| 19:13.38 | elg | shifted an octave |
| 19:14.03 | levi | This organ business sounds way too complicated. :) |
| 19:14.09 | elg | findlay: so yes, you can arbitrarily reassign stops with the right memory card in some organs |
| 19:14.45 | findlay | elg: so, generally most everything can be coupled down onto the great and pedal, right? |
| 19:14.53 | elg | and of course with a software organ like aeolus, your arbitrariness knows no bounds. you want a bombarde 32 on the choir division? go ahead :) |
| 19:15.04 | findlay | heh |
| 19:15.05 | elg | yeah, generally things couple down. swell to great but not the other way around |
| 19:15.20 | encryptz | findlay: if you can't sustain the congretation with the melody on the pedal, then you're not worth your salt as an organist! :) |
| 19:16.07 | elg | a lot of the limitations are historic, but there's also practicality to consider. if you had all the stops available on each division and all the coupling possibilities and etc. etc. you would have to have a lot of drawknobs |
| 19:16.11 | elg | expensive and confusing |
| 19:16.38 | elg | but time has shown us we can, with a little creativity, make do with dividing the stops up into divisions and coupling down |
| 19:16.38 | findlay | levi: it gets a little more complicated than that, sometimes you can couple all swell stops to the swell keyboard at the 4' or 16' level, or couple to the great keyboard at the 4' or 16' levels, for example |
| 19:16.57 | elg | yeah, those can be nice |
| 19:17.11 | findlay | elg: and sadly too, we only have two hands and two feet |
| 19:17.17 | tensai | I count 49 stops in aeolus, give or take some that are continuous like you said. does that mean that a similar meatspace organ would have 61 * 49 pipes? |
| 19:17.31 | elg | yup |
| 19:17.32 | findlay | it is told that Bach would use a stick in his mouth to get yet another note in |
| 19:18.33 | tensai | when he wanted to play the "grrarrg" note? |
| 19:18.34 | elg | the pedalboard only has 32 keys, actually, so you'd only find 32 pipes in each pedal-only rank |
| 19:19.17 | elg | and the mixtures actually have several pipes per note (i think that's what the roman numeral means) |
| 19:19.20 | elg | but which harmonics isn't consistent across the range, and sometimes it's just stealing pipes from other ranks |
| 19:20.02 | elg | and some meatspace organs have pipes that don't sound or are out of tune so you learn to avoid them :) |
| 19:20.25 | findlay | yeah, smaller church pipe organs cheat and when you double up voices you find the note is already being used by another division |
| 19:20.31 | elg | sometimes you'll have a stop that doesn't sound across the whole keyboard, usually when it's been coupled to a different octave, like swell to great 4' |
| 19:20.39 | findlay | it makes it frustrating when you're trying to play anything polyphonic |
| 19:20.51 | elg | yeah, that too. but those tend to have the same name |
| 19:21.04 | tensai | if two stops have the same name, does that mean they're the same rank? I see a lot of duplicates between division I and P. |
| 19:21.14 | elg | yes, essentially |
| 19:21.15 | findlay | still makes it hard when you don't have much to choose from |
| 19:22.03 | elg | but not enforceably |
| 19:22.23 | elg | there's no reason other than implementation details or stupidity why it may not refer to the same rank |
| 19:22.36 | tensai | what's this "swell" and "great" stuff? |
| 19:23.01 | elg | in aeolus it seems they actually sound twice, as if you had separate ranks |
| 19:23.10 | elg | don't know if that would be considered a bug or not |
| 19:23.21 | elg | great is the main keyboard. I on the default Aeolus instrument |
| 19:23.41 | findlay | elg: not if you could configure it :) |
| 19:23.48 | elg | swell is the secondary division, so named because it is usually enclosed in a "swell box" which opens and closes with the expression pedal |
| 19:24.18 | elg | the third, if you have one, is usually called the choir or positiv |
| 19:24.28 | elg | and if you have four, you probably have both a choir and positiv |
| 19:24.36 | findlay | big, fancy organs, like that in the conference center which has all of 5, will have multiple swell boxes |
| 19:24.36 | elg | don't remember what the fifth might be called |
| 19:25.16 | findlay | and each swell box has a different swell pedal |
| 19:25.16 | elg | some bastard organs even control the great with the/an expression pedal |
| 19:25.16 | findlay | elg: solo |
| 19:25.16 | findlay | ugh |
| 19:25.16 | elg | but usually the great is not volume-controlled |
| 19:25.20 | tensai | what's an expression pedal? |
| 19:25.33 | elg | that gas pedal thing |
| 19:25.37 | findlay | tensai: it controls pivoted panels on the swell box |
| 19:25.50 | elg | and there's a crescendo pedal usually, the one on the right, which will actually add stops |
| 19:26.00 | findlay | right |
| 19:26.07 | elg | so pull no stops but put the crescendo all the way yup and you get full organ |
| 19:26.10 | tensai | wait, there's two gas pedals? |
| 19:26.27 | findlay | tensai: or more depending on how many swell boxen you have |
| 19:26.31 | elg | you have to make sures it's properly configured though or it can sound really cheesy |
| 19:26.46 | elg | if there's only one pedal it's probably the swell pedal |
| 19:27.04 | elg | or conceivably it could be a crescendo pedal if there's no swell box. but in that case you'd probably just have no pedals at all |
| 19:27.34 | findlay | and the crescendo pedal can be programmed as to which stops it adds during the crescendo |
| 19:27.41 | tensai | crescendo pedal doesn't sound all that useful. is it? |
| 19:27.54 | findlay | tensai: it comes from the days before swell boxen |
| 19:28.04 | findlay | to get louder you add more ranks |
| 19:28.08 | findlay | etc. |
| 19:28.18 | elg | it can be, if it's properly configured |
| 19:28.43 | elg | it can be easier to push that pedal than to pull more stops by hand. if you're not too picky about which more stops you get and you just want more stereotypical organ sound |
| 19:28.50 | elg | e.g. when accompanying the choir like I did this past sunday |
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| 19:29.08 | elg | for the grand finale on the last page |
| 19:30.06 | tensai | when you let off the crescendo pedal, does it unpull the stops? |
| 19:30.35 | findlay | all the 'gas pedals' are variable position |
| 19:30.44 | elg | you don't have to keep your foot on it |
| 19:30.45 | elg | but yes |
| 19:31.35 | tensai | can it fix a corrupt mailbox for me? |
| 19:33.12 | elg | for some definition of "fix" |
| 19:33.47 | jsmith | tensai: What type of mailbox? |
| 19:34.05 | tensai | mbox |
| 19:34.34 | elg | sed s/^.*$// |
| 19:34.35 | jsmith | declines the offer |
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| 19:35.29 | tensai | I think I've got it figured out now |
| 19:35.45 | tensai | just have to delete all these incorrect duplicate messages |
| 19:35.52 | elg | mutt to the rescue |
| 19:36.39 | tensai | mutt can read an mbox whose headers are missing? |
| 19:38.35 | elg | probably not |
| 19:39.14 | tensai | the good news is that removing the many copies of this message will also solve my quota issue |
| 19:39.32 | elg | so will rm -rf ~/ |
| 19:40.39 | nick125 | rm -rf ~/ solves a lot of problems. |
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| 19:42.16 | findlay | ~solve the problem |
| 19:42.16 | ibot | ACTION grits her teeth while attempting to solve the problem |
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| 20:23.51 | eggyknap | is reading old conversations, and ponders the 32' bombarde on the swell, with a draw knob between "Piccolo 2'" and "Mixture IV" |
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| 20:32.54 | decriptor | any recommendations on an external drive |
| 20:33.12 | decriptor | looking at them it seems like so many of them die after a year |
| 20:42.35 | spr | http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/a7ea/ |
| 20:42.38 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: External USB SATA Drive Dock] |
| 20:43.59 | decriptor | needs to be easily movable by a non techinical person |
| 20:44.42 | spr | I still think that would qualify. |
| 20:44.55 | decriptor | non technical female |
| 20:44.55 | spr | I've done other Do-it-yourself enclosures before. |
| 20:45.13 | spr | Then they look like normal usb HDs, but I just use a spare. |
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| 20:45.35 | spr | newegg has a bunch |
| 20:48.39 | decriptor | yeah have you read the reviews |
| 20:48.48 | decriptor | it makes me not want to buy any of them |
| 20:49.31 | spr | There are a few (the more expensive ones) that I've seen that tend to review really well |
| 20:49.48 | spr | But then the price difference tends not to be such a big deal. |
| 20:50.16 | spr | If I had to go with a pre-built, I'd go with a seagate, then you at least get the warranty |
| 20:50.45 | jsmith | Or Maxtors, now that they're owned by Seagate |
| 20:51.57 | spr | Does Maxtor now have the same warranty too? |
| 20:55.39 | decriptor | warranty or not, if the data is lost then what good is it |
| 20:56.30 | tensai | feeds chocolate to fozzmoo's cat |
| 20:58.16 | Jayce^ | hehehehe http://omgowned.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/rapidshare-not-suitable-for-newbies/ |
| 20:59.01 | fozzmoo | stares at tensai |
| 21:01.15 | spr | well, hard disks will eventually fail regardless. It's nice when you can get a new one for free |
| 21:01.55 | findlay | whatever |
| 21:01.59 | findlay | I've never had a hard disk fail |
| 21:02.07 | findlay | except that one that did |
| 21:02.11 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 21:02.19 | findlay | well, and there was another one that failed ... |
| 21:02.33 | findlay | but, generally they don't fail! |
| 21:02.53 | findlay | except when it happens |
| 21:11.42 | encryptz | what is the package in fedora tha provides me the entire kernel source? |
| 21:15.44 | jsmith | encryptz: kernel-devel |
| 21:16.35 | encryptz | according to the docs, that's just the headers and makefiles to build modules against, not the entire suorce |
| 21:17.12 | jsmith | Oh, right... |
| 21:17.54 | jsmith | It's probably just a source RPM now... |
| 21:18.03 | encryptz | hmmm... probably |
| 21:18.21 | encryptz | yeah. i recall learning that now |
| 21:18.37 | encryptz | used to be named kernel-source |
| 21:18.46 | encryptz | that makes more sense. ok. thx |
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| 21:22.49 | sjansen | decriptor: I've got one of these. Takes a beating flying and keeps on ticking. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822154201 |
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| 21:28.28 | decriptor | sjansen: man that one got killer reviews too :P |
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| 22:35.25 | encryptz | has anyone seen this network pattern before: http://aarontoponce.org/system.png? |
| 22:36.02 | findlay | interesting |
| 22:36.48 | encryptz | i see it occasionally at hotels and training centers |
| 22:36.54 | encryptz | just curious what's causing it |
| 22:37.40 | encryptz | i think it may be cutting my network throughput literally in half |
| 22:37.44 | encryptz | but i don't know |
| 22:42.15 | levi | Whee, 4-cycle gasoline engine theory 101 on PLUG. |
| 22:46.28 | tensai | encryptz: do they have a rate limiter upstream of you? |
| 22:50.00 | encryptz | dunno |
| 22:50.50 | *** join/#utah Hhhhhh (n=Hhhhh@ip70-176-132-101.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:51.00 | encryptz | could that be a cause? |
| 22:51.29 | encryptz | i don't even know what to google for something like this |
| 22:57.18 | tensai | it's interesting, but I don't have a lot to offer |
| 22:58.14 | tensai | what it seems is that after you hit a certain point (time, bandwidth), they slow down the data coming in. once they stop, your computer slowly recovers until it hits that point again. |
| 22:58.43 | encryptz | hmmm |
| 22:58.46 | tensai | I wonder what it would look like if you used your own bandwidth limiter. maybe you could get under their limit. |
| 22:58.52 | tensai | start low, like 128kbps |
| 22:59.06 | tensai | I've used trickle before and it works well for a userspace shaper |
| 22:59.22 | encryptz | well, if your theory holds, then it's really low, as it drops at ~20KBps |
| 22:59.49 | tensai | maybe, but maybe not |
| 23:00.03 | findlay | haha |
| 23:00.26 | tensai | they might have a rule that says "not more than 250kb in 5 seconds" |
| 23:00.38 | findlay | when I was with Manti Telecom, they would drop you down from ~32 to 16 to 8 to 4 |
| 23:00.48 | findlay | soo lame |
| 23:01.12 | tensai | I'm thinking their smoothing has too long a time period on it |
| 23:01.18 | findlay | anything beyond a couple of megabytes and you start sucking your data through a progressively shrinking straw |
| 23:01.39 | encryptz | heh |
| 23:01.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:02.09 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:02.09 | tensai | enter the traffic shaping expert |
| 23:02.29 | encryptz | i'll have to ask the network dude tomorrow, and see if he has a traffic shaper or bandwidth management tool |
| 23:02.32 | elg | you have a sadistic ISP |
| 23:02.50 | elg | or employer, or hotel or whatever |
| 23:03.06 | encryptz | elg: did you see my screenshot? |
| 23:03.12 | elg | yeah |
| 23:03.24 | tensai | didn't notice elg was here earlier |
| 23:03.30 | encryptz | what say ye? |
| 23:03.33 | tensai | good thing I didn't say all the mean things I've got bottled up inside |
| 23:03.38 | elg | my first guess is some kind of limiting and maybe tcp backoff/ramping up |
| 23:03.44 | elg | but it's pretty darn sinusoidal |
| 23:03.54 | encryptz | yeah |
| 23:03.55 | elg | hands a cistern to tensai |
| 23:04.01 | tensai | perhaps it's a sinusoidal infection? |
| 23:04.33 | *** join/#utah cgibreak (n=cgibreak@128.187.78.242) |
| 23:04.44 | RyanE | that or you need to inject some HHO into your ethernets. Clean out those pipes. |
| 23:06.29 | tensai | RyanE: careful with that stuff. it can be lethal. |
| 23:06.35 | tensai | http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html |
| 23:06.37 | brac | [Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide] |
| 23:06.52 | RyanE | well, that's H2O, but yeah, related... :) |
| 23:07.15 | tensai | is HHO something else then? |
| 23:07.26 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@12.166.5.66) |
| 23:07.27 | elg | a normal traffic limiter will make your bandwidth look like a flat mesa over time, e.g. 5-minute intervals |
| 23:07.48 | elg | but I'm not sure what it would look like at small time scale |
| 23:08.14 | encryptz | well, it's been going for an hour... |
| 23:08.50 | elg | right but if you sampled every 5 minutes instead of every second, would it look flat |
| 23:08.53 | encryptz | what sucks, is there is really no way around it |
| 23:09.05 | encryptz | ahh. i see |
| 23:09.10 | tensai | I know that decent rate limiters, like the ones we use, work much better than that |
| 23:11.55 | elg | try pulling a file with wget at a rate lower than the peak of your sinusoids |
| 23:12.54 | encryptz | i'll test that. gotta let this finish. probably another 1/2 hour |
| 23:13.13 | tensai | http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/tmp/graph.png |
| 23:13.20 | elg | are you basing this on only one source? maybe it's on the other end |
| 23:13.20 | tensai | there's what proper shaping should look like |
| 23:13.31 | elg | right, but cacti is polling every 5 minutes |
| 23:13.46 | encryptz | elg: no. i've been noticing this all week |
| 23:13.56 | encryptz | currently, it's pulling from mirrors.kernel.org |
| 23:14.07 | encryptz | but it's consistent, regardless of source |
| 23:14.16 | tensai | elg: I've watched the instantaneous measurements on the router itself and they're the same |
| 23:14.31 | elg | tensai can you verify the same with that same network monitor he's using? |
| 23:15.01 | tensai | no. that router is 3 hours away. |
| 23:15.22 | elg | so get walking |
| 23:15.28 | fozzmoo | That's a lot of latency |
| 23:15.29 | fozzmoo | 3 hours. |
| 23:15.45 | elg | it's on mars maybe |
| 23:15.47 | fozzmoo | I usually measure my latency in ms. :) |
| 23:16.17 | tensai | http://haydenplanetarium.org/universe/duguide/app_light_travel_time_dista.php |
| 23:16.18 | brac | [Appendix: Light-Travel Time and Distance | Guide | Digital Universe | Hayden Planetarium] |
| 23:16.24 | tensai | 3 hours would be uranus |
| 23:16.40 | romenquettadil | elg: I thinks it should be further away, light speed, from sun is above 7 minutes |
| 23:17.16 | elg | the martian nsa has to inspect it before it can come back |
| 23:17.41 | romenquettadil | elg: maybe you're right :) |
| 23:18.19 | encryptz | the rate limiting is affecting the sending to |
| 23:18.24 | encryptz | just as sinusoidal |
| 23:18.25 | romenquettadil | while I'm trolling here, is there a C POSIX programmer there? |
| 23:18.43 | encryptz | 6.8KiBps |
| 23:18.44 | elg | don't ask to ask |
| 23:18.55 | encryptz | is the avg peak |
| 23:19.46 | findlay | ~lart subversion |
| 23:19.46 | ibot | takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in subversion's direction, hitting subversion and sending subversion flying into the closet |
| 23:19.52 | findlay | ~eliminate subversion |
| 23:19.53 | romenquettadil | does anyone know if there's a (C POSIX) way to handle with SIGIGN all blockable signals with only a sigaction() (or similar) call? |
| 23:20.10 | findlay | ~nuke subversion |
| 23:20.10 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at subversion ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 23:20.40 | encryptz | findlay: why the hatred towards svn? |
| 23:20.47 | findlay | better than CVS, that's for sure |
| 23:20.57 | findlay | encryptz: it's just been really picky lately |
| 23:21.14 | findlay | like any good RCS, I suppose |
| 23:45.10 | elg | oh my. a book shipping from amazon today by usps estimated to arrive on the 23rd |
| 23:45.47 | elg | from kentucky |
| 23:45.55 | elg | i didn't know kentucky was a week and a half away |
| 23:46.04 | encryptz | well, i think if it is rate limiting, then it's under 1 KiBps |
| 23:56.55 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 23:57.03 | Hhhhh | subversion rocks |
| 23:57.06 | Hhhhh | git is for newbs |
| 23:57.17 | elg | truth |
| 23:57.56 | nick125 | Hhhhh: You're just saying that because you don't know how to use git! |
| 23:58.09 | Hhhhh | nick125, you may think that, but that doesn't make it true |
| 23:58.37 | Hhhhh | you may disagree and think than git is better, but reality will make you hit the floor |
