| 00:13.11 | nick125 | Anyone here use Piwik? |
| 00:13.18 | nick125 | I'm wondering what the opinions are of it. |
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| 00:23.16 | findlay | well, there's always the -- option |
| 00:23.21 | findlay | and -h |
| 01:20.44 | nick125 | Piwik is neat. |
| 01:37.56 | nick125 | In my opinion, it really beats Google Analytics |
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| 02:02.19 | Hhhhh | slaps ibot. |
| 02:02.28 | Hhhhh | ibot, you suck |
| 02:02.29 | ibot | and very well I might add |
| 02:02.36 | Hhhhh | haha |
| 02:03.36 | herlo | nick125: I've been to a pikwik before |
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| 03:09.21 | levi | Hi. |
| 03:10.50 | linuxalien | Hewwo |
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| 03:44.24 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 03:45.47 | elg | -chat |
| 03:45.53 | brac | Anyone here have experience with other applications? |
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| 03:47.42 | elg | w00t, NM has the l33test supercomputer now |
| 03:47.43 | elg | http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/09/technology/petaflops.php |
| 03:47.50 | brac | [U.S. supercomputer sets speed record - International Herald Tribune] |
| 03:50.07 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:50.20 | levi | I'm sure that will be short-lived. :) |
| 03:50.31 | levi | The supercomputing world is fickle that way. |
| 03:51.05 | levi | I'm glad to be out of that business. It's hard to make any money there. |
| 04:06.17 | elg | wonders why his laptop was off when he pulled it out of his bag |
| 04:06.39 | elg | first linux suspend failure |
| 04:06.50 | elg | but it wasn't just not waking up from suspend, it was off |
| 04:06.51 | levi | Not a battery problem? |
| 04:06.54 | elg | no |
| 04:07.06 | levi | Hmm. Well, that's what you get for running Linux. |
| 04:07.08 | elg | plenty of battery left, and I haven't had any trouble with the battery connection in this laptop |
| 04:07.10 | elg | :) |
| 04:07.51 | elg | i was done in it for that session anyway. I was just too lazy to reboot before I packed up and came home |
| 04:07.54 | levi | Actually, when OS X was first released, Linux ran a lot better on the Ti-books than OS X did. |
| 04:08.40 | levi | Plus you could run Mac-On-Linux and get a pretty decent OS 9 experience there. |
| 04:09.00 | elg | if any os 9 experience can be called decent |
| 04:09.34 | levi | Hey, it had primitive innards, but it was a great UI. |
| 04:09.45 | elg | i was never convinced |
| 04:10.08 | levi | I grew up on a Mac Plus, so I was an early believer. :) |
| 04:10.18 | elg | i got comfortable enough in it. spent most of my time the first semester in that lab (working on 143 or not) because it was marginally better than windows |
| 04:10.35 | elg | that unix stuff was too foreign still, and really would CDE have been any better? |
| 04:10.43 | levi | No, CDE was crap. |
| 04:10.55 | elg | plus I was intimidated by the "upperclassmen" that were in those labs. heh |
| 04:11.13 | elg | yeah I know. I bent over backwards to get something else on my hpux workstation when I worked at CAEDM |
| 04:12.02 | levi | Well, I thought CDE was cool at the time, but I was under the influence of Unix love. |
| 04:12.13 | elg | there are worse syndromes |
| 04:12.37 | levi | Now I hate Unix, but I appreciate that it's better than most anything else we've got. :) |
| 04:12.37 | elg | CDE is cool in a leonard nimoy singing a hobbit song kind of way |
| 04:13.27 | levi | That still gets a chuckle out of me. :) |
| 04:14.01 | levi | So, my little unplanned bike ride tonight was about 5 miles. |
| 04:14.19 | elg | is that like an unplanned pregnancy, but with less permanent consequences? |
| 04:14.50 | levi | If I took it all the way down the parkway trail (I rode to the trailhead) it'd be 15 miles. |
| 04:16.01 | elg | so our kitchen has been terrorized by little red ants for a number of weeks now |
| 04:16.09 | elg | they don't attack us, they just get into everything |
| 04:16.42 | elg | so with my wife out of town I got some little ant trap things - well they don't trap them but they take the poison back to the nest |
| 04:16.50 | elg | and they disappeared the next day. funny how that works |
| 04:17.06 | elg | sometimes my wife makes me chuckle |
| 04:17.46 | elg | the things she does in the name of natural/healthy. otoh, I'm sure I do crazy things like bend over backwards to avoid calling people that make her chuckle |
| 04:18.07 | levi | We got one of those trap things, but I'm not sure if it's been used yet. |
| 04:18.19 | levi | We've got a black ant problem. |
| 04:18.43 | levi | They sort of appear and disappear depending on if there's anything around that they might want to eat. |
| 04:19.10 | elg | ants are interesting that way. at first glance their food-finding algorithm seems pretty inefficient |
| 04:19.22 | elg | send out random scouts that walk randomly |
| 04:19.35 | elg | but they always seem to find it |
| 04:20.25 | elg | the best part is watching them swarm on the dead cockroaches (they spray so any roaches coming in the house die a few hours later) |
| 04:20.51 | elg | it's like our own little ecosystem. |
| 04:21.03 | elg | dysfunctional ecosystem |
| 04:22.33 | levi | Heh. My wife would flip out if we lived anywhere with roaches. |
| 04:24.18 | lakshmi | insects are gross |
| 04:25.11 | elg | grosser than worms? |
| 04:29.00 | lakshmi | uhh any insects or crawly things are gross |
| 04:29.04 | lakshmi | so are fishes |
| 04:29.08 | lakshmi | those are double gross |
| 04:29.19 | elg | but not leeches |
| 04:30.54 | levi | Worms are awesome. Cockroaches are nasty. |
| 04:34.37 | lakshmi | leeches bad too |
| 04:34.44 | lakshmi | those dont sound fun |
| 04:41.54 | levi | elg: How's your garden going? |
| 04:48.11 | lakshmi | levi my garden? |
| 04:48.28 | herlo | grubs are nasty, so are maggots |
| 04:49.56 | levi | lakshmi: elg's garden. |
| 04:50.47 | lakshmi | oh good cause i was gunna say with my intense fear of bugs i dont think my garden would do well |
| 04:59.44 | findlay | -chat elg's garden |
| 04:59.45 | brac | elg's garden |
| 05:00.02 | findlay | ~gross lakshmi |
| 05:00.47 | findlay | ~random |
| 05:00.57 | findlay | -chat |
| 05:01.01 | brac | what's the problem? |
| 05:01.08 | findlay | ~port 12345 |
| 05:01.09 | ibot | [port 12345] netbus - Netbus TROJAN |
| 05:01.14 | findlay | heh |
| 05:02.32 | findlay | those Trojans had no idea how they'd jade themselves in computer lore |
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| 05:06.32 | RyanE | Yeah, c'mon, you hide a bunch of guys inside *1* horse, you're branded for all time... |
| 05:12.25 | tensai | RyanE: don't forget condoms. that can't really be an honor either. |
| 05:13.00 | RyanE | heh |
| 05:13.26 | findlay | ~annoy lakshmi |
| 05:13.27 | ibot | ACTION dances around lakshmi, poking whenever possible, tickling or doing whatever necessary to annoy lakshmi to the maximum amount |
| 05:13.36 | lakshmi | ~annoy findlay |
| 05:13.36 | ibot | ACTION dances around findlay, poking whenever possible, tickling or doing whatever necessary to annoy findlay to the maximum amount |
| 05:13.47 | findlay | haha |
| 05:13.50 | findlay | silly lakshmi |
| 05:14.06 | lakshmi | ~die findlay |
| 05:14.07 | ibot | ACTION murders findlay, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless... |
| 05:16.00 | elg | going alright. i killed a jalapeño plant and had to buy another one. several of my seedlings got eaten, and the second wave didn't sprout (probably because it's so hot and the ground is drying up, killing the sprouts), so I planted a jiffy box with replacement seeds and I'm still waiting for them to sprout |
| 05:16.31 | elg | but the tomatoes, jalapeños, cucumbers, radishes, rosemary, sugar snap peas, and corn are all doing well so it's not a failure by any means |
| 05:24.54 | lakshmi | question does office 2007 work on windows xp? |
| 05:25.34 | sontek | lakshmi: yeah |
| 05:25.42 | bonez46 | a jiffy box, eh? |
| 05:25.47 | lakshmi | sontek you sure? |
| 05:27.02 | sontek | lakshmi: 100%, I have it on my computer at work |
| 05:27.05 | sontek | lakshmi: and its XP |
| 05:27.16 | lakshmi | thank you soo much sontek |
| 05:27.21 | lakshmi | i hate ordering computers |
| 05:27.28 | lakshmi | they make me wanna spend money >.< |
| 05:27.36 | sontek | haha |
| 05:27.49 | sontek | speaking of new computers, i'm about due for a new one |
| 05:27.54 | sontek | opens up newegg |
| 06:02.52 | *** part/#utah bonez46 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 06:21.12 | findlay | ~lart sontek for having money |
| 06:21.12 | ibot | crushes sontek with a full height scsi disk for having money |
| 06:21.40 | lakshmi | ~lart findlay for being here |
| 06:21.40 | ibot | whips out a sword and chops findlay in half for being here |
| 06:22.04 | findlay | ~tickle lakshmi |
| 06:22.05 | ibot | ACTION jumps on lakshmi, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!" |
| 06:22.16 | lakshmi | ~lart findlay |
| 06:22.17 | ibot | eats findlay and falls over dead |
| 06:22.24 | lakshmi | im not tickleish |
| 06:22.33 | findlay | you're not Turkish? |
| 06:22.37 | findlay | why not? |
| 06:22.53 | lakshmi | dont come from turkey? |
| 06:23.19 | findlay | I saw a wild turkey a few weeks ago |
| 06:23.52 | findlay | I was running down the trail back home |
| 06:24.07 | findlay | but it didn't attack me |
| 06:26.06 | findlay | face it lakshmi: your life would be so unstimulating without #utah |
| 06:27.46 | lakshmi | uhhh no |
| 06:27.51 | lakshmi | its not #utah |
| 06:27.55 | lakshmi | ... its you |
| 06:28.16 | lakshmi | and i think itd be fine with out you randomly highlighting me |
| 06:28.22 | findlay | how nice of you to be so explicit |
| 06:28.36 | lakshmi | no prob |
| 06:28.44 | findlay | haha |
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| 09:12.32 | Hhhhh | IT'S TOO QUIET IN HERE!!! |
| 09:42.37 | Supaplex | -excuse |
| 09:42.38 | brac | Traceroute says that there is a routing problem in the backbone. It's not our problem. |
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| 16:10.42 | lakshmi | ~stab Sargun_screen |
| 16:10.42 | ibot | ACTION runs at Sargun_screen with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 16:21.32 | findlay | hello |
| 16:22.38 | levi | Hi. |
| 16:29.02 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 16:44.25 | encryptz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Roadrunner |
| 16:44.27 | nick125 | jsmith-lunch: Lunch? already? |
| 16:45.07 | jsmith-lunch | nick125: For me, yes! :-) |
| 16:45.31 | jsmith-lunch | nick125: (I secretly just change my nick to make everyone else in the channel hungry) |
| 16:45.36 | nick125 | lol |
| 16:59.52 | Migs | do you realize how many Quake servers you could run with that thing? |
| 17:04.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:04.34 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.31 | nick125 | Migs: or bzflag! |
| 17:06.04 | encryptz | i'd be more interested in factoring algorithms and cryptanalysis |
| 17:07.41 | findlay | oh sure |
| 17:07.48 | findlay | you can say all you want |
| 17:08.10 | encryptz | or distributed computing. sick that sucker after seti@home, and you'd usurp all the work units available over the weekend. :) |
| 17:08.28 | findlay | but what everybody *really* wants to see is a simulated nuclear destruction |
| 17:08.55 | encryptz | that's what bluegene/l is for |
| 17:11.26 | findlay | well, in war games they got away with a large humming box with lots of blinking red and orange LEDs on it |
| 17:11.34 | *** join/#utah fugalh (n=fugalh@dhcp38.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:12.05 | tensai | ~wake elg |
| 17:12.05 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on elg and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 17:12.16 | elg | -chat if tensai |
| 17:12.16 | brac | if tensai has a small trixbox gig? :) |
| 17:12.18 | tensai | elg: what's this hw:0 stuff all about? |
| 17:12.45 | elg | alsa device hw:0 is the first hardware device |
| 17:12.48 | elg | cat /proc/asound/cards |
| 17:13.06 | elg | usually hw:0 is the primary (or only) audio card |
| 17:13.08 | tensai | so hw:1 would be a second card, if one existed? |
| 17:13.11 | elg | right |
| 17:13.33 | findlay | elg: is your turtle beach sound card external? |
| 17:13.38 | elg | no, pci |
| 17:13.45 | jsmith-lunch | has a fancy new USB sound card |
| 17:13.51 | jsmith-lunch | Cost me all of four dollars |
| 17:14.03 | jsmith-lunch | I should try it out |
| 17:14.17 | elg | on my desktop, which has a via onboard card, my turtle beach, and a third hardware device that does only MIDI (the onboard gameport) |
| 17:14.26 | findlay | jsmith-lunch: does it make happy sound though or true sound? |
| 17:14.33 | elg | i had to do some modprobe trickery to get the turtle beach to always be hw:0 |
| 17:14.38 | nick125 | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5831 < $3.98! |
| 17:14.52 | elg | the gameport is hw:1, and the via is hw:2 |
| 17:14.54 | jsmith-lunch | [jsmith@localhost ~]$ cat /proc/asound/cards |
| 17:14.54 | jsmith-lunch | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:14.55 | jsmith-lunch | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.28 | elg | jsmith-lunch: cool, now cat /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/info | grep count |
| 17:15.54 | jsmith-lunch | elg: subdevices_count: 1 |
| 17:16.07 | jsmith-lunch | elg: Is more better? |
| 17:16.10 | elg | yes |
| 17:16.12 | nick125 | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2820 |
| 17:16.27 | elg | 1 is stupid. cheap cards have 1. most laptops, onboard cards, etc. |
| 17:16.36 | elg | and $4 usb audio cards :) |
| 17:16.46 | elg | my turtle beach has 32 |
| 17:16.59 | elg | that's just the number of programs that can access the card directly at the same time |
| 17:17.04 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 17:17.08 | elg | without dmix or pulseaudio or whatever |
| 17:17.28 | elg | normal people don't have to worry about that anymore though, since dmix is the default |
| 17:17.34 | tensai | elg: qjackctl shows me 4 options for which device jack can use, (default), default, hw:0 and hw:1 |
| 17:17.40 | tensai | elg: what are those "defaults"? |
| 17:17.49 | nick125 | elg: What about the USB Heated gloves? Eh? EH? |
| 17:17.51 | elg | (default) is jack's default, which is hw:0 |
| 17:18.10 | elg | default without parentheses is the alsa default device, which is dmix/dsnoop unless you changed it |
| 17:18.31 | nick125 | Sargun: You should try some e |
| 17:18.33 | nick125 | ...17 |
| 17:19.38 | elg | in alsa nomenclature, there is also subdevices, like hw:0,0 |
| 17:20.12 | elg | you can usually leave the ,0 off. it would only be useful when you want to send stuff to the rear speakers (but only if that's how that card handles rear speakers) or use spdif or something like that |
| 17:22.22 | elg | in your ~/.asoundrc you can make your own alsa devices. you can combine cards into one big card, or mirror cards, or do software mixing, resampling, send it to pulseaudio, jack, filter it with a LADSPA plugin, etc. |
| 17:23.14 | tensai | elg: jack won't start when I use default. any thoughts on why? http://paste.lisp.org/display/62043 |
| 17:23.37 | tensai | I'm just playing around with it. works fine with either (default) or hw:0 |
| 17:23.51 | elg | ALSA: cannot set period size to 512 frames for capture |
| 17:23.57 | elg | try -p 256 |
| 17:24.00 | elg | or -p 1024 |
| 17:24.24 | elg | the -p and -n options are the first ones to play with |
| 17:24.30 | elg | some cards can't do too small periods |
| 17:25.07 | elg | others can't do too big periods (my turtle beach doesn't do > 512, and jack's default is 1024, so I have to specify ) |
| 17:25.33 | elg | and regardless of what your card supports, dmix might be different. it probably needs at least 1024 and can go higher |
| 17:25.49 | elg | bigger period size or more periods means more latency but more likely to not get xruns |
| 17:26.28 | elg | some cards, like the intel hda on my macbook, need at least so many periods (3 in this case) or they don't work right. regardless of period size. i'm not sure why that is |
| 17:26.54 | elg | tensai: another fun tool is aplay, with the -D switch |
| 17:27.00 | elg | and the -v switch |
| 17:27.40 | tensai | elg: I tried 64-2048 and no size would work. guess I'll just use hw:0 |
| 17:29.30 | tensai | I would like to have jack not conflict with arts |
| 17:29.45 | tensai | is there a way for arts to use jack as a device? |
| 17:31.46 | elg | tensai: always the same error? |
| 17:32.08 | tensai | elg: yeah. "ALSA: cannot set period size to 2048 frames for capture" |
| 17:32.54 | elg | odd. might even try 4096 but i'd doubt that would work if the others don't |
| 17:32.56 | elg | try also -P |
| 17:33.03 | elg | if you don't plan to record through the mic or line-in |
| 17:33.12 | elg | maybe there's something odd about the capture specifically |
| 17:33.21 | elg | or maybe with -P it will have the same error for playback instead |
| 17:38.17 | tensai | no luck with -P |
| 17:39.48 | elg | odd |
| 17:40.48 | elg | looks like artsd does support jack |
| 17:40.58 | elg | though you might have to rebuild it with libjack-dev installed on ubuntu |
| 17:41.34 | elg | the ubuntu morons screwed everything up majorly because they didn't want to put jack in the core supported packages. so some stuff that usually has jack support was built without it so they wouldn't have to depend on jack |
| 17:41.43 | elg | without reciprocating packages in universe to add jack support |
| 17:42.11 | elg | there's also a jack plugin for alsa, so you can make an alsa device that is actually a jack client, so any program using that alsa device will actually be using jack |
| 17:42.19 | elg | and you can make that the default device |
| 17:42.36 | elg | if you do that then of course jack has to be running to hear anything |
| 17:42.52 | elg | if you want to do that, you have to rebuild the libasound2-plugins package with libjack-dev installe |
| 18:27.12 | findlay | elg: why so much confusion? Why can't we have The One True Audio Server that works for all cases? There seems to be way too much heterogenity in Linux audio |
| 18:30.23 | jsmith | findlay: Because consensus is impossible |
| 18:30.41 | Tene | findlay: You're using the one true window manager, right? |
| 18:30.49 | findlay | Tene: of course |
| 18:30.53 | findlay | L) |
| 18:31.10 | findlay | s/L/:/ |
| 18:31.28 | levi | elg: So, have you heard about MagLev? |
| 18:32.53 | findlay | jsmith: don't be so pessimistic. Here in the US we're gradually recognizing the errors of our ways and we're gradually becoming more and more like China where everybody consents to what the government tells them and they make sure they do it |
| 18:33.21 | jsmith | findlay: All I can say in that regard is that it's a good thing we don't get *all* the government we pay for |
| 18:33.24 | findlay | after all, socialist regimes like China get things done |
| 18:33.41 | findlay | like the 3 gorges dam |
| 18:33.42 | levi | Git 'er done! |
| 18:33.46 | findlay | and I could go on |
| 18:34.42 | *** join/#utah me (n=chatzill@c-67-170-238-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:34.45 | me | hey |
| 18:34.48 | me | guys |
| 18:35.02 | levi | You don't have to be socialist to get things done. Absolute monarchies work, too. |
| 18:35.47 | findlay | levi: monarchies are soo last millenium. Fascism is soo last century. Socialism is the Way of the Future! |
| 18:35.56 | levi | It helps if you've got a huge army and a world-dominating empire, too. |
| 18:36.04 | levi | And lots of slaves. |
| 18:36.10 | findlay | sure does |
| 18:36.29 | findlay | so long as nobody thinks for themselves |
| 18:36.52 | jsmith | findlay: Thinking is so last-century. We don't need to think -- we have google! |
| 18:37.05 | findlay | oh, right, I forgot |
| 18:37.09 | jsmith | findlay: I mean... who needs to remember what an oligarchy is... when you can just ask google! |
| 18:37.27 | findlay | -google oligarchy |
| 18:37.28 | brac | oligarchy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy |
| 18:37.50 | jsmith | And then there's wikipedia |
| 18:37.59 | jsmith | I mean, who needs to think when there's wikipedia |
| 18:38.22 | findlay | social[ist] knowledge bin extrordinare |
| 18:38.37 | jsmith | (especially when Wikipedia thinks I'm some famous singer specializing in Spanish songs) |
| 18:38.54 | findlay | and who does asterisk on the side? :) |
| 18:38.56 | *** join/#utah porkchop86 (n=stealth@host-69-144-96-28.jcs-wy.client.bresnan.net) |
| 18:39.44 | findlay | we might as well face it. Locke is dead |
| 18:40.26 | findlay | there is no intuition only conformalism |
| 18:44.36 | *** part/#utah porkchop86 (n=stealth@host-69-144-96-28.jcs-wy.client.bresnan.net) |
| 18:44.42 | elg | findlay: because of historical baggage, essentially |
| 18:44.49 | tensai | elg: yeah, my artsd doesn't have jack enabled. I'm not sure I'm going to bother with it. |
| 18:45.04 | tensai | really the only time I use jack is when I use rosegarden, which isn't all that often |
| 18:45.19 | elg | nobody in their right mind wants oss around, but nobody wants to port all the oss apps (and some morons continue to write them because it's the simplest to code for - just feed raw audio data to /dev/dsp) |
| 18:46.14 | elg | but oss had the one-program problem, so esd and artsd came to be. but sound servers was an inelegant solution. and then ALSA came about which improved a lot of things but regretfully didn't do mixing out of the box. if it had maybe artsd and esd would have disappeared |
| 18:46.21 | elg | now it does, but they're far too entrenched |
| 18:46.47 | findlay | sounds awful, literally |
| 18:47.02 | findlay | silly audio daemons |
| 18:47.06 | elg | jack came about because of a need for pro audio latencies, and the push model of ALSA and OSS is fundamentally incompatible. you need a callback-based separate-thread architecture for that |
| 18:47.54 | elg | i still have no idea why pulseaudio was created instead of just extending alsa/jack. yes it adds some neat features but nothing that couldn't be added to alsa/jack |
| 18:48.18 | elg | another big motivator to jack besides the latency is the routing of audio between applications |
| 18:49.08 | elg | as with many things oriented to pros (analogs in the windows world and osx), jack is a bit more complicated than most people need, |
| 18:49.57 | elg | but alsa covers the bases of what people need, and the rest is just playing around anyway |
| 18:50.09 | elg | and the more complicated the better when it comes to linux types playing around |
| 18:50.32 | levi | pulseaudio needs to die. |
| 18:50.33 | tensai | is there any way to open up Finale files in Linux? |
| 18:50.36 | levi | elg: Make it happen! |
| 18:50.45 | elg | tensai: technically you don't even have to use jack when you use rosegarden unless you're taking advantage of the audio or jack transport features |
| 18:51.05 | elg | levi: i've seen it mentioned in blogs but haven't bothered to look into it |
| 18:51.53 | levi | It's a commercial smalltalk vm + persistent object store with some extra bytecodes added to run Ruby. |
| 18:58.42 | tensai | elg: I didn't have -R set for jack. with it I'm not getting that "out of cpu" error. |
| 19:01.24 | elg | cool |
| 19:01.50 | elg | that occured to me but I thought you had it because you said limits.conf made a difference. I'm not sure how it would (but it's possible) without -R |
| 19:02.12 | elg | i'm not sure about finale |
| 19:02.21 | elg | tool of the devil |
| 19:02.28 | tensai | well, I made the change to limits.conf and that didn't help. then I rebooted to a -rt kernel and left the limits.conf, and the xruns went away. |
| 19:02.43 | tensai | but that was without -R |
| 19:03.19 | tensai | I really have no idea what all these organ stops do |
| 19:04.11 | findlay | they stop the organ when it goes? |
| 19:04.26 | tensai | apparently stops make it go |
| 19:04.36 | findlay | that's so backwards |
| 19:04.47 | elg | ah, i misremembered |
| 19:05.06 | elg | yeah, limits.conf without -R wouldn't do anything |
| 19:05.34 | elg | they're called stops because they stop the air from entering the pipe |
| 19:05.43 | elg | you pull a stop to allow air to enter the rank of pipes |
| 19:05.57 | elg | so a stop is "on" when it's "pulled", i.e. when it's off |
| 19:06.00 | levi | Huh, thus the phrase, 'pull out all the stops'? |
| 19:06.02 | elg | confused? :) |
| 19:06.05 | elg | yup |
| 19:06.06 | tensai | so stops do actually stop. it's when you unstop it that it goes. |
| 19:06.06 | findlay | ah, so on one of those fully mechanical organs, that's how it works |
| 19:06.34 | findlay | they are fun |
| 19:06.35 | elg | if you've never heard an organ with all the stops pulled out, you should |
| 19:06.39 | elg | these things are fun and fun is good |
| 19:07.11 | findlay | elg: I've heard the conference center organ (effectively) fully unstoppered :-) |
| 19:07.37 | elg | if you can sneak into your chapel or corner your ward organist after church, pull all the stops and push the crescendo pedal (the right pedal) all the way down |
| 19:07.53 | elg | then play something |
| 19:08.03 | eggyknap | elg: It's fun to go in midweek and scare teh guys doing family history |
| 19:08.05 | levi | I take it that will be loud? |
| 19:08.05 | findlay | stake center organs are generally more fully featured though |
| 19:08.25 | findlay | eggyknap: sure is :) |
| 19:08.50 | tensai | elg: what's a tremulant? |
| 19:08.55 | eggyknap | managed to incorporate the bourdon in the pedals in last week's sac. mtg. |
| 19:09.07 | findlay | elg: did you know there's probably a set of dials inside in the back that lets you fiddle around with the settings? |
| 19:09.29 | findlay | and lots of custom electronics |
| 19:09.44 | findlay | and ports for stuff |
| 19:10.11 | findlay | playground for any young, becoming geek. Man that brings back memories |
| 19:11.53 | elg | tensai: adds a silly-sounding vibrato |
| 19:12.01 | elg | think leslie cabinet or old lady |
| 19:12.23 | elg | it's really only appropriate for some romantic organ music on a solo division |
| 19:12.48 | elg | findlay: unfortunately I do know. we've had no end of troubles with our organ this past year |
| 19:13.15 | findlay | tensai: or think baseball stadium! |
| 19:13.33 | elg | and the steak electronics/sound system/etc guru is in our ward and we've had to tweak those knobs to get something resembling acceptable performance out of it |
| 19:13.50 | elg | tensai: want a crash course in organ registration? |
| 19:14.14 | tensai | elg: I would but I've probably used up all my organ time for today |
| 19:14.27 | elg | tune in again tomorrow, same bat time |
| 19:14.41 | findlay | ~bat elg |
| 19:14.42 | ibot | ACTION takes his mighty clue bat and whacks elg over the head many, many, many times |
| 19:14.52 | elg | cracks into the reuben sandwich |
| 19:16.38 | tensai | my dad was the ward organist for many years, so I'm passingly familiar with all the terms. but that's about it. |
| 19:17.23 | eggyknap | Depending on the organ, the tremulant can be nice in very limited circumstances |
| 19:17.28 | findlay | tensai: I started out just experimenting |
| 19:17.52 | elg | that's true, eggyknap. i've so rarely seen an effective tremulant though |
| 19:17.54 | findlay | but the first few years my whole purpose was trying to sound like E Power Biggs :_ |
| 19:17.59 | findlay | :) |
| 19:19.21 | eggyknap | elg: Just don't leave it alone :) You've gotta have some stops *without* tremulant on as a foundation. |
| 19:19.34 | elg | yeah |
| 19:19.42 | eggyknap | But for quiet solo flute-y things it can be useful, if used sparingly. Kinda like chimes. |
| 19:19.45 | elg | in fact I just finished recording a piece with tremulant |
| 19:19.57 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/music/phd/herzliebster_jesu.mp3 |
| 19:20.12 | elg | the cantus firmus in the krumhorn has tremulant |
| 19:20.12 | findlay | the classic tabernacle organ registration :) |
| 19:21.37 | tensai | elg: 404 :( |
| 19:22.16 | tensai | http://hans.fugal.net/music/organ/phd/herzliebster_jesu.mp3 |
| 19:22.16 | eggyknap | s/phd/organ\/phd/ |
| 19:23.18 | elg | oops, s/phd/organ/ |
| 19:23.23 | elg | yeah, what he said :) |
| 19:25.18 | eggyknap | elg: kinda a slow tremulant. Interesting. |
| 19:25.35 | elg | yeah i tweaked it down manually |
| 19:26.01 | elg | the default was a bit too rapid, and since I was tweaking it anyway... |
| 19:26.03 | eggyknap | I gather from the music/ page that this is computer-generated? |
| 19:26.29 | elg | i recorded it into rosegarden and rendered it with aeolus into ardour then exported it and made an mp3 with lame |
| 19:26.37 | elg | so human performed, computer generated |
| 19:27.18 | elg | and since I don't have a 2-manual organ with pedalboard here in my office, I had to record the parts individually. actually I recorded pedal and C.F. at the same time, then split them into two tracks in rosegarden, then recorded the left hand |
| 19:27.55 | eggyknap | aeolus? |
| 19:28.08 | eggyknap | Ah... aeolus |
| 19:28.10 | elg | there's another in that directory now, verset by boëllmann, that is one manual and what you hear is what I played |
| 19:29.05 | findlay | elg: familliar with Handel's organ concertos? |
| 19:29.05 | eggyknap | sweet... I might have to play with aeolus sometime. |
| 19:29.55 | elg | it's a lovely program. a good pair of speakers or headphones and it beats practicing at the church |
| 19:29.59 | findlay | glad I snagged that console? :) |
| 19:30.03 | eggyknap | really needs to learn how to use rosegarden, ardour, etc. Some friends have contracted for some background musack and I've gotta learn how to do it :) |
| 19:30.06 | elg | if only i had my organ here with me |
| 19:30.11 | elg | findlay: more than glad, though we're still apart |
| 19:30.18 | eggyknap | elg: it beats practicing at church, if you've got a few manuals and a full pedalboard MIDI controller |
| 19:30.19 | findlay | :( |
| 19:30.35 | Tene | What is it with people who walk into a classroom with a lot of empty seats and go sit RIGHT NEXT to someone who's obviously trying to spread out a bit? |
| 19:30.49 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch_@nat/novell/x-68fee3e0fd35c4a0) |
| 19:31.00 | findlay | Tene: but did they have a full pedal board? |
| 19:31.06 | Tene | No. |
| 19:31.16 | elg | yeah. I have two midi keyboards that I can arrange but no pedalboard. well I do, findlay's aunt gave me a nice midi organ (2-octave pedal), but it's still in utah |
| 19:31.20 | findlay | well, then, how can you be so sure?? |
| 19:31.34 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@68.249.115.150) |
| 19:32.59 | tensai | Tene: probably the same kind of person who would walk into a nearly empty restroom and pick a urinal adjacent to somebody |
| 19:33.40 | findlay | generally rest rooms don't have pedalboards |
| 19:33.58 | Tene | I have a pedalboard in mine. |
| 19:34.05 | findlay | interesting |
| 19:34.15 | tensai | some japanese stalls make music to mask your bodily sounds |
| 19:38.50 | findlay | "In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan |
| 19:39.52 | Migs | hahaha |
| 19:40.09 | Migs | I'm in some Lansa training, learning about how to use Lansa to build web sites. And it's seriously about 10 years behind the times |
| 19:40.21 | Migs | the trainer just said that with Lansa "tables are the best way to organize web pages" |
| 19:40.27 | Migs | I'm like, wtf? |
| 19:40.37 | *** join/#utah Tadaka (n=Tadaka@c-67-169-241-41.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:41.00 | findlay | ~tabular Migs |
| 19:41.25 | Migs | my boss wants us to use Lansa from now on for our student portal |
| 19:41.45 | findlay | ~pity Migs |
| 19:41.45 | ibot | I pity da fool Migs! |
| 19:41.46 | Migs | the idea being that we have all these Lansa developers we can utilize |
| 19:46.38 | findlay | -excuse |
| 19:46.38 | brac | Having to manually track the satellite. |
| 19:54.19 | encryptz | -make |
| 19:54.33 | encryptz | -configure |
| 19:54.36 | encryptz | -install |
| 19:54.38 | encryptz | dumb bot |
| 19:54.51 | encryptz | ~configure |
| 19:54.56 | *** join/#utah thrain][ (n=dpn@72.8.105.138) |
| 19:54.59 | encryptz | ~make |
| 19:55.04 | encryptz | ~install findlay |
| 19:55.05 | ibot | ACTION runs yum -y localinstall findlay-4.2-1.noarch.rpm |
| 19:55.10 | encryptz | ha |
| 19:55.20 | encryptz | findlay: you've been reduced to an rpm |
| 19:55.23 | findlay | ~make destruction |
| 19:55.24 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `destruction'. Stop. |
| 20:06.21 | me | i think i broke hte office phones.. >.< |
| 20:07.20 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 20:12.30 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:12.35 | sjansen | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-lolcatus-borg.jpg |
| 20:24.26 | tensai | ~lolcat sjansen |
| 20:25.04 | findlay | is a girl a sufficient reason to create a facebook account? |
| 20:25.24 | sjansen | Depends. Is she roughly the same age as you and single? |
| 20:25.32 | eggyknap | Fewer than four legs? |
| 20:25.36 | sjansen | And not related to you. |
| 20:25.44 | findlay | sjansen: basically |
| 20:25.54 | sjansen | Then the answer is: basically. |
| 20:26.06 | findlay | lousy girls |
| 20:26.14 | findlay | will cause you to do anything |
| 20:27.15 | sjansen | findlay: You could always claim your illiterate as an excuse for not creating one. |
| 20:27.16 | goozbach | findlay: only if she has cute pictures on her facebook acct |
| 20:28.02 | findlay | goozbach: at this point I haven't so much as wgot facebook.com |
| 20:28.03 | tensai | findlay: and if you spell like sjansen, she'll probably believe you're illiterate |
| 20:28.42 | findlay | r u available 2nite? |
| 20:30.35 | mrpull_ | findlay: girls will convince you to do all sorts of stupid things in the long run |
| 20:30.46 | mrpull_ | a facebook account is the least of your worries |
| 20:31.15 | mrpull_ | pretend that is good for your career ala linked in (like that really is any good anyway) |
| 20:33.16 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:34.17 | findlay | maybe I'll just avoid this issue entirely and leave the girls for more conniving men |
| 20:34.29 | tensai | I've never been to facebook but if it's only half as bad as myspace I would stay away |
| 20:35.02 | sjansen | tensai: Yeah, but you're 1) Old. 2) Married. Either one is a valid excuse, findlay can't use either. |
| 20:35.30 | findlay | sjansen: academia? |
| 20:36.16 | sjansen | Similarly, I've avoided Facebook because I'm 1) Old and 3) Crotchety. |
| 20:37.55 | me | findlay: do it |
| 20:38.08 | findlay | and I'm 0) Eccentric |
| 20:38.19 | me | can everyone stop calling the phone! |
| 20:38.23 | tensai | sjansen: what would we do without you? |
| 20:39.17 | sjansen | tensai: Read more slashdot. |
| 20:39.23 | Tene | findlay: since when is that an excuse for anything? |
| 20:40.31 | findlay | Tene: I throw around unsubstantiated opinions all day on IRC |
| 20:43.47 | findlay | so, sjansen is a slashdot substitute |
| 20:44.51 | Tene | Any suggestions on tools to tunnel network traffic through udp port 53? |
| 20:45.26 | findlay | netcat? |
| 20:45.40 | goozbach | Tene: tunnel over icmp |
| 20:46.19 | sjansen | Tene: OpenVPN |
| 20:46.55 | Tene | Ah, nstx. |
| 20:46.59 | Tene | http://thomer.com/howtos/nstx.html |
| 20:47.00 | brac | [NSTX (IP-over-DNS) HOWTO] |
| 20:47.11 | findlay | Tene: your own perl script |
| 20:57.00 | tensai | amano chocolate++ |
| 20:59.30 | Tene | Hm, having trouble with openvpn... |
| 21:01.15 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@72.21.36.138) |
| 21:11.07 | eggyknap | elg: re organs, http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/309081584/david-byrne-uses-an-entire-building-as-a-giant-instrument |
| 21:12.13 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:12.18 | sjansen | ~lart FF3 |
| 21:12.18 | ibot | farts in FF3's general direction |
| 21:15.15 | findlay | what do you think of nested raid? |
| 21:15.35 | findlay | what do you think of ZFS bundling it's own raid? |
| 21:18.18 | goozbach | nested raid? raid 1+0 or 1+5? |
| 21:19.46 | findlay | right |
| 21:19.54 | sjansen | ZFS is sweet. I've only read a little about RAID-Z, but I liked what I read. |
| 21:19.56 | jsmith | goozbach: 1+0 or 0+1 |
| 21:21.09 | sjansen | ZFS makes me want to build an OpenSolaris server. |
| 21:23.31 | goozbach | if only zfs was truly open and ported to the Linux kernel. |
| 21:23.32 | findlay | too bad sun had to go and make their own GPL-incompatible license |
| 21:25.11 | hatchmt | has anyone bothered porting zfs to a kernel module anyway, even if it conflicts with the GPL? |
| 21:26.33 | goozbach | hatchmt: not sure |
| 21:26.49 | neybar | wow, that raid-z sounds really cool |
| 21:26.59 | nick125 | Is it the ZFS code or ZFS itself that is GPL incompatible? |
| 21:27.38 | levi | Huh, this is an interesting homeschool-related post. Anyone know anything about this? http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4580 |
| 21:31.31 | unum | nick125: I think sun plans to release ZFS under GPL 3 |
| 21:31.44 | unum | which means it's not compatible with GPL 2 |
| 21:32.03 | unum | that's funny we were having this same conversation in an other channel |
| 21:32.10 | findlay | thus the FSF will pressure Linus to switch to GPL3 :) |
| 21:32.27 | unum | of course ZFS would solve a bunch of problem our problems here at work as well |
| 21:32.36 | unum | and Linus will give them the usual finger |
| 21:32.43 | unum | that he gives them |
| 21:32.55 | findlay | oh, wait, 'release under GPL3' is not the same as 'compatible with GPL3 and not 2' |
| 21:33.48 | findlay | if sun releases ZFS under GPL3 that could easily and conscionably be used with a GPL2 linux |
| 21:33.58 | unum | I thought so my self |
| 21:34.35 | findlay | problem solvozored |
| 21:34.41 | findlay | goes back to being lazy |
| 21:35.19 | unum | I was wrong |
| 21:35.30 | unum | zfs is under the cddl |
| 21:35.36 | findlay | right |
| 21:35.55 | unum | I thought there was talk of releasing all of solaris under gpl3 |
| 21:36.41 | elg | levi: I haven't finished the article, but i lost interest |
| 21:36.58 | jsmith | elg: I lost interest too |
| 21:37.15 | elg | seems like a series of loosely-related and unstructured links, claims, attacks, defenses |
| 21:37.19 | elg | and who knows what else |
| 21:37.25 | findlay | pinwheels? |
| 21:37.43 | elg | and I don't see what it has to do with homeschooling in general, just this particular group which I've never heard of (but which sounds wacky) |
| 21:37.55 | sjansen | goozbach: What do you mean "truly open"? What isn't open about ZFS? |
| 21:38.18 | levi | elg: Well, she is a homeschooling advocate, and had concerns about this organization. |
| 21:38.49 | levi | I just wondered if anyoneone here had any experience with the 'Thomas Jefferson Education' thing. |
| 21:38.54 | goozbach | well, perhaps "truly open" was the wrong thing to say. |
| 21:39.01 | goozbach | I meant not GPL compatable |
| 21:39.51 | elg | interesting, http://opensource.scouting.org/ |
| 21:39.58 | elg | levi: nope, never heard of it |
| 21:40.29 | elg | we steered clear of the more wacky homeschoolers, and we weren't in utah anyway (and if this is 90% lds then I bet most of the people doing it are in utah) |
| 21:41.30 | findlay | elg: Thomas Jefferson knows how to educate your kids |
| 21:45.37 | elg | tommy isn't hearing so well these days |
| 21:45.46 | elg | and i think he lost his dentures |
| 21:47.36 | levi | elg: How'd your homeschooling work, from a scheduling perspective? How much were each of your parents involved, time-wise? |
| 21:49.45 | goozbach | and with the overhead that a system like ZFS has, I doubt that a FUSE solution is going to be efficent |
| 21:51.54 | elg | when i started in 7th grade, my mom worked with us quite a bit, but even then send us off to do our work and we'd bring it back and she'd look at it etc. |
| 21:52.16 | elg | once we got past algebra, we took the math to dad |
| 21:52.57 | elg | for high school we did a correspondence course with these guys http://opensource.scouting.org/ |
| 21:53.01 | elg | er, http://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/ |
| 21:53.02 | brac | [Earn your high school diploma through distance education courses with the American School of Correspondence.] |
| 21:53.40 | elg | they'd send books and homework/exams, you work through the books and do the homework/exams and send them in by mail |
| 21:53.57 | elg | parents helped out when we had questions, but mostly we did it on our own |
| 21:54.02 | levi | Hmm, interesting. |
| 21:54.11 | elg | so mostly it was a matter of riding the whip, and my mom did most of that |
| 21:54.28 | elg | she was a lot more hands on with the younger kids (like vontrapp) when they were young |
| 21:55.21 | levi | So there was pretty much no 'lecture' at the high school level? |
| 21:55.57 | elg | the correspondence stuff was alright, but i liked that jr high stuff better. we got history books (college texts I think) from the library, and everything was just more free, broad, and deep |
| 21:56.45 | elg | with the correspondence, it was more structured, less deep, more boring, and a bit of a chore. but that's high school, no? :) no doubt it was easier on my parents and for what it was worth we had a high school diploma to show for it |
| 21:57.13 | elg | yeah, unless you count nova, dinner-time science, math, political, etc. discussions |
| 21:57.17 | levi | Yeah, there's definitely some value to that, even if it's not of real educational value. |
| 21:57.27 | Heartsbane | goozbach: thank you |
| 21:57.57 | levi | I *heart* Nova. |
| 21:58.21 | elg | I *lung* Nova |
| 21:59.33 | elg | came out of it knowing stuff high school graduates know, but more importantly knowing how to learn without a formal class setting |
| 22:00.25 | levi | Yeah, that's definitely a good thing. |
| 22:01.30 | levi | My parents were good at getting me books about things I was interested in, and helping me pursue my education in areas I was interested in beyond the classroom. I think all parents should do that, whether they do full homeschooling or not. |
| 22:01.47 | elg | and then there's the familial bonding, and the fact that I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time on the computer that I wouldn't have otherwise |
| 22:01.56 | elg | absolutely |
| 22:02.39 | findlay | converges |
| 22:03.28 | findlay | n-th root test, comparison test, and a few others establish absolute convergence |
| 22:06.27 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 22:07.52 | levi | elg: So what prompted your family to do homeschooling? |
| 22:08.57 | elg | jacob was ahead of his class in math and had a dolt teacher that wouldn't accomodate him |
| 22:09.01 | elg | in 3rd grade |
| 22:09.08 | elg | so they pulled him out that year |
| 22:09.54 | elg | then when i got to 7th grade they decided to start doing it for the younger kids and jacob and I had the choice |
| 22:10.08 | elg | I of course put off deciding until like the week before school was to start |
| 22:10.10 | elg | :) |
| 22:10.29 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:10.53 | levi | My parents ended up doing battle with school systems occasionally, but never did pull me out. |
| 22:11.10 | elg | part of it was the "heathenness", part the academic weakness |
| 22:11.45 | elg | my three youngest siblings ended up doing the normal high school track, or part of it, in Vernal |
| 22:12.03 | jsmith | elg: And look how they turned out ;-) |
| 22:12.08 | jsmith | is only kidding |
| 22:12.23 | elg | yeah, they're just like jsmith |
| 22:12.51 | jsmith | elg: I knew your siblings were awesome! |
| 22:13.11 | jsmith | takes that as a sign and decides to sign off for the night... |
| 22:15.17 | unum | writes I will not use global variables 100 times |
| 22:17.35 | elg | ~global unum |
| 22:17.38 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Call for Papers @http://2008.utosc.com | Everybody Love Hypnotoad |
| 22:17.55 | elg | dresses hypnotoad up like hypnopig |
| 22:17.59 | findlay | goozbach: I figured it out |
| 22:18.00 | tensai | elg: there's quite a difference in the sound of those two mp3s |
| 22:18.07 | elg | which two? |
| 22:18.11 | tensai | is that due to the stops you used, the recording method, or both |
| 22:18.16 | elg | the stops |
| 22:18.17 | tensai | the organ ones you posted |
| 22:18.27 | elg | ah. btw, there's 10 there now |
| 22:18.36 | elg | i can provide a stop list if you're interested |
| 22:19.57 | tensai | that would be interesting |
| 22:21.00 | findlay | anyone have 200 GiB to spare? |
| 22:21.16 | tensai | elg: what did you mean by "there's another in that directory now, verset by boëllmann, that is one manual and what you hear is what I played" |
| 22:21.35 | tensai | vs. the herzliebster_jesu |
| 22:21.53 | elg | the boellmann is played on one manual (keyboard) |
| 22:22.01 | elg | so I didn't have to do any high-tech midi trickery |
| 22:22.51 | tensai | so they both took the same path, but the one involved combining two different streams? |
| 22:23.53 | tensai | I had misread that to mean the boëllmann was a live recording |
| 22:23.55 | elg | yeah, the herz one is two manuals and pedal |
| 22:24.14 | elg | well it was, I recorded it live to MIDI |
| 22:24.34 | elg | vs sequencing it or something |
| 22:25.36 | tensai | I mean like played on a pipe organ and recorded with a mic |
| 22:25.49 | elg | ah, no |
| 22:54.33 | Tene | Any ideas on how to persuade wget to download recursively, but not outside of a specific directory? |
| 22:54.41 | elg | -m |
| 22:54.54 | elg | there are options for staying under as needed |
| 22:55.01 | elg | but i find -m usually does what I want |
| 22:55.19 | elg | tensai: http://hans.fugal.net/music/organ/phd |
| 22:55.22 | elg | see the .m3u and the README |
| 22:57.26 | Tene | -m goes jumping all over the rest of the relevant site for me |
| 23:01.22 | elg | -L maybe? |
| 23:01.23 | brac | dunno |
| 23:01.30 | elg | -np maybe |
| 23:01.43 | Tene | The main thing that annots me is that it immediately jumps off I tried -np, but then it just refused to follow anything at all. |
| 23:07.00 | tensai | uses wget -m on hans.fugal.net |
| 23:07.55 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 23:07.55 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:17.43 | Tene | Ah, the problem is that the server software is horribly broken. |
| 23:17.53 | Tene | Serving different pages to wget than it did to firefox. |
| 23:18.20 | Tene | www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9/fr_class_index.html |
| 23:28.05 | elg | Aheh |
| 23:28.38 | elg | tensai: you might find the blog post I just posted enlightening |
| 23:59.32 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 23:59.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
